[Feedback] Combat Game Balance

[Cetric]

Make the fixes for PVP not PVM, Specifically the Chiv spells. PVM'rs were not the ones crying for fixes, at least i was not.

No offense... but the consecrate weapon change is awesome!


Don't be sad you have to work a little harder to achieve what you previously were achieving so simply.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Make the fixes for PVP not PVM, Specifically the Chiv spells. PVM'rs were not the ones crying for fixes, at least i was not.

No offense but no pvper was complaining about Chivalry. Although there might have been some PvMers complaining about the fact that there is like 2 character classes that even play the game any more.

This information comes free of charge. People need to stop sitting around and complaining about things to come, also stop assuming that everything is directed at PvP, COMBAT do you perform combat against the AI? It is not pvp balance, it is freaking Combat Game Balance (Keyword here being combat). So a little reading comprehension lesson for everyone complaining.

 

[puni666]

Make the fixes for PVP not PVM, Specifically the Chiv spells. PVM'rs were not the ones crying for fixes, at least i was not.

It's balance. Yeah it takes some relearning after the redefining, but it's manageable.

A smart pvm idea would be to find another pvmer that also has healing/anat and knows how to actively cure themselves and take out things twice as fast.

(Team work may be involved in a mmorpg)

 

[TurboTimmy]

When I first saw the 40% SDI cap, I thought that might be a little too high. However, after actually testing it versus several different enemies it seems fairly balanced.

It definitely gives players the option to rock a more "old-school" character and still be effective, and I think that is awesome.


I also like the changes to poisoning.


In general I have no problems with these changes.

I would still love to see taming, especially dread mares, in pvp get reduced somehow. It's just dumb.

 

[TurboTimmy]

Make the fixes for PVP not PVM, Specifically the Chiv spells. PVM'rs were not the ones crying for fixes, at least i was not.

No offense... but the consecrate weapon change is awesome!


Don't be sad you have to work a little harder to achieve what you previously were achieving so simply.

Agreed, IF you just invest a few more points in chiv, you will realize that chiv can actually be even BETTER with the new changes.

Stoping Whining about changes before actually looking into them and giving it a chance.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Agreed, IF you just invest a few more points in chiv, you will realize that chiv can actually be even BETTER with the new changes.

Stoping Whining about changes before actually looking into them and giving it a chance.

I'm trying to get to GM Chiv on Galen and am having a surprisingly rough time given that I'm only going from 90.

-Galen's player

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

I'm trying to get to GM Chiv on Galen and am having a surprisingly rough time given that I'm only going from 90.

-Galen's player

Chivalry is the only skill in game that I know of that is impossible to "train" to 120, so not to surprising that you are having a hard time getting to gm, the success rate to cast is to high.

 

[J.B.]

No offense but no pvper was complaining about Chivalry. Although there might have been some PvMers complaining about the fact that there is like 2 character classes that even play the game any more.

This information comes free of charge. People need to stop sitting around and complaining about things to come, also stop assuming that everything is directed at PvP, COMBAT do you perform combat against the AI? It is not pvp balance, it is freaking Combat Game Balance (Keyword here being combat). So a little reading comprehension lesson for everyone complaining.

It does say specifically PVP.
Combat Game Balance
Game Balance Changes
Focus Skill Spec (PVP)

So yeah the key word is combat, but specially entangled around PVP.

I am just saying I have not heard any PVM'rs complain. Yes i enjoy playing my sampire. But i really enjoy playing my bard. I believe there are plenty of PVM templates out there.



Oh and complaining I am not, I am merely giving my views and feedback

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

It does say specifically PVP.
Combat Game Balance
Game Balance Changes
Focus Skill Spec (PVP)

So yeah the key word is combat, but specially entangled around PVP.

I am just saying I have not heard any PVM'rs complain. Yes i enjoy playing my sampire. But i really enjoy playing my bard. I believe there are plenty of PVM templates out there.



Oh and complaining I am not, I am merely giving my views and feedback

It says PvP in one section so instantly the entire thing is about balancing PvP? The main PvP change has nothing to do with PvM at all, and again the sum of the idea is Combat changes, so the change to Chivalry (the only part that can be viewed as a "omg they are going to destroy PvM") is still a combat change no matter what aspect of the game you are in, and the majority of that change (except for the EoO being usable in PvP) is all PvM none of it balances PvP.

Your statement of "Let it affect PvP and not PvM" is entirely flawed under the assumption that they did not mean for it to level PvM. So my entire first post, and this one, addresses that.

 

[J.B.]

It says PvP in one section so instantly the entire thing is about balancing PvP? The main PvP change has nothing to do with PvM at all, and again the sum of the idea is Combat changes, so the change to Chivalry (the only part that can be viewed as a "omg they are going to destroy PvM") is still a combat change no matter what aspect of the game you are in, and the majority of that change (except for the EoO being usable in PvP) is all PvM none of it balances PvP.

Your statement of "Let it affect PvP and not PvM" is entirely flawed under the assumption that they did not mean for it to level PvM. So my entire first post, and this one, addresses that.

They might not of meant it to, but it has bled over to the PVM side. What my first post meant was separate the two, make the changes to pvp but don't fix what is not broke on the pvm side. My opinion, my feedback. Flawed Maybe.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

They might not of meant it to, but it has bled over to the PVM side. What my first post meant was separate the two, make the changes to pvp but don't fix what is not broke on the pvm side. My opinion, my feedback. Flawed Maybe.

No opinion is flawed, just the premise that you think the change is a PvP change is a flaw in thought. Assuming they mean for something to be one way and not the way you are taking it, is flawed because it is only an assumption until such time that they tell you/us that they mean for it to be such a change as to be opposite of how it affected you/us. In this instance you are saying to sepperate PvP changes from PvM ones, but who is to say they do not mean for it to affect both equally and thus that is why it is changed the way it is changed instead of some other method?

Sometimes I understand that a PvP or PvM change bleeds over into the other, but sometimes it is just what it is, to assume other wise is where the flaw is.

 

[Saint of Killers]

I'm trying to get to GM Chiv on Galen and am having a surprisingly rough time given that I'm only going from 90.

-Galen's player

Went from 40 to 120 twice last week, and 40 to 105.

It's a freakin' grind, I'm not gonna lie.

Max mr/med/focus/lich form, and still takes forever. Can't even use a wisp with noble sacrifice because it empties all of your pools when you successfully cast it.

I didn't do the math on what my skill level would be if discoed in Twisted (because I didn't want to work up karma on my skill builder). If it lowers it enough, then maybe you could use enemy of one for a while. Once you stopped getting gains for enemy, your time in Twisted would be over because Holy Light would not be in your best interest there.

 

[J.B.]

No opinion is flawed, just the premise that you think the change is a PvP change is a flaw in thought. Assuming they mean for something to be one way and not the way you are taking it, is flawed because it is only an assumption until such time that they tell you/us that they mean for it to be such a change as to be opposite of how it affected you/us. In this instance you are saying to sepperate PvP changes from PvM ones, but who is to say they do not mean for it to affect both equally and thus that is why it is changed the way it is changed instead of some other method?

Sometimes I understand that a PvP or PvM change bleeds over into the other, but sometimes it is just what it is, to assume other wise is where the flaw is.

Right, you totally understand my stance, I am just saying the changes that are being made are mainly from pvp'rs wanting change (Which is cool, i understand) But on the same note i do not hear any pvm'rs complaining about pvm. I am not even sure if it is possible, but my constructive feed back, or opinion was to change pvp not pvm. This thread was made for disscussion. And yes if changes are made then yes i will adapt accordingly, most of us always do.

 

[Another Lamer]

Overall I like the changes that are being made.

With regards to healing being linked towards dex (finger slip etc) this is perfect and is exactly what is needed as it bring the classic heal mage back into play. The chance to cure before the heal may need a tweak as this could be overpowered.

Increasing SDI to 40% provided the template is focused in one particular ability (mage/necro/bush/ninja etc etc) once again this is perfect. The only issue with this is that once again a pure mage may be able to do far to much damage in one combo.

Leave the SDI how it is and to prevent it being overpowered bring back into play magic resist on a variation of how it was pre-aos. This being depending on skill level let it have a chance to reduce spell damage. For example at 120 it could have say a 10% chance to reduce spell damage by 50% (something like that anyway).

 

[greenwolf]

Just from reading everyone's replies; Its apparent most of us would like to keep that difference between PvM and PvP. Not everyone likes to PvP and we all know this except the Devs, who apparently don't play this game at all anyway....

Seriously with this issue of keeping PvM and PvP separate why don't you go take a look at other MMORPGs. There is specific servers for specific play styles, have a shard that is specifically for PvP. Yea i know there is Siege but lets be honest you can't ship people to Siege and expect to PvP when they have there own way of doing things anyways...

Yea i know people have said this before about the "shard of the dead". The final answer came down to be about "money". Seriously though, would you guys rather spend the money on something your players actually want, or would you rather keep guessing and pissing everyone off. At half ass attempts of "fixing" things that don't need to be "fixed".

Yea you may be "listening" and attempting to "fix" problems, but are these really the issues at hand that NEED to be "fixed"? Last i checked we don't "fix" problems with more problems.

 

[Another Lamer]

Not quite sure why PvMers even have a place in this topic. These are PvP fixes.......yes for about the first time in years the Pvpers are finally getting some love.

PvMers whine about everything.....so much so they gave you trammel years ago.......and years on your still whine.

Is PvM broken? the answer to that is it works to about 90%, should a single person be able to solo some of the hardest champs no. In actual fact years back when pub 16 was launched, one of the key factors surrounding champ spawns was that no single person would be able to complete one.
But to be honest, do I care if these changes make it harder for the pvmers....answer is no. Do I care if it means that a pvmers can kill something 60 seconds faster....the answer no. The pvmers can plod on collecting their pixels doing the same things day in day out with 0 variation.

Once again it is very clear, these fixes are not about pvm...its pvp. I believe that what has been put forward is very good, well thought through....needs a little tweak here and there......but all in all....a good job!

 

[Another Lamer]

Re: Combat Game Balance - Must Read

OK , as a decent pvper and from playing on the test and testing out the new spell damage increase cap . all i can say is if you guys really wanna even pvp out and make it lot better for all the Ultima Online players, is you guys need to change the Magic Resist skill, and change it so that it randomly resist spells that players cast like explode and flamestrike, and increase the %percent of damage it reduces . that would make it soooo much better !

Agreed.

This is a great opportunity to make UO PvP great again and reverse some of the changes that certain vandals did back with AOS. I think people forget how powerful spells were back in the day and how much a major part resist played. If you had 2 good mages, one with 90 resist and the other with 100 resist, the one with 100 resist would win 9/10 duels.

Bring back true magic resist please! (old style trapped pouches would be nice as well.....but im pushing my luck with that)

 

[Another Lamer]

metric ton of colossus and energy vortexes that take absolutly no player skill to use.

Keep this simple your a dexer/sampire or whatever you wanna call yourself. Im a mage. Known fact more skill and ability is required to use a mage, more macros...more everything. I would say hitting a macro and waiting a few seconds to cast an ev (which do very little btw) is no less difficult than you hitting an armer ignore button.

 

[Another Lamer]

here is what needs addresed if your going to nerf the apple timer..

mortal spamming..
spell plague spamming...
evil omen spamming..
blood oath spamming...


just for starters, LOL

this new tc idea is so bad.

Now this one is real simple: -

Mortal: - Slightly reduce length of time it is effective/increase mana usage
Spell Plague: - Removing stacking (should have been sorted before)
Evil Oman: - No real issue with this
Blood Oath: - Slightly increase the cast time so the caster can be disturbed more.

 

[Another Lamer]

Excuse me? I believe I've explained in great detail that I want to see Necromancy forms nerfed in such a way as not to reduce the effectiveness of the skill when taken separate from Chivalry. Namely by instituting a continuous karma drain for forms, a "garlic-like" burn damage effect for Chivalry spells cast while in forms, and possibly a requirement for Spirit Speak in order to derive the full benefit of forms.

This would take the overpowered and thematically-bizzare standard Sampire template, a template that currently rules melee PVM so utterly as to have rendered all other melee templates irrelevant, and compel it to diversify into Necro/Bushido "Chivless Sampires" and Chivalry/Bushido Paladins.

While the former would still have substantial life leech due to Curse Weapon, it's damage output would be reduced, thus also reducing it's ability to leech mana. Additionally, it wouldn't be able to spam Divine Fury, meaning stamina would matter more than it does now. The latter Chiv/Bush template would maintain current high levels of damage, but without being able to easily convert that damage directly into health via life leech.

No, this would not instantly cure all balance problems in UO, but it would cure one of them. When players are not only able to pile Bushido AND Necromancy AND Chivalry all onto one template, but doing so becomes the only remotely sensible choice for PVM melee, something is out of whack. When that template is able to solo bosses, something is out of whack.

When every Paladin has to be a Necromancer or basically get laughed off as an underpowered "LOL RP" character, stuff is just plain not working like it's supposed to.

Please don't tell me I don't know what I want nerfed or why. I know exactly what I'm talking about.

And I would LOVE to see Logrus or anyone else comment on this, if only to tell me "No man you are wrong for reasons XYZ!"

Babble Babble Babble goes the PvMer?

True fix would be to give your monster greater Hit Points and faster Hit Point Regen. Whole point of UO and what makes it so unique is that its a sandbox, ie create what you want (and in most sensible instances it will work to some degree)

Lets put the true HP Regen/HP fix in for the PvMers, if you dont like the structure of UO.....go play WoW.


Edit:
"And I would LOVE to see Logrus or anyone else comment on this".......well you did ask for it

 

[satchmo cat]

i agree with come of the other why cant the proposed changes be fixed to the pvp playing areas and leave us the pvmer's to the rules as they are now , we already have to concent to entre a pvp area , im sure the hamsters and other can do some quick programing to the entry points to the pvp areas to make this happen, ive spent yrs making toons and altering them to the verious rule changes to get the best out of my game play and now you propose to change it all again " if its not broken dont fix it" and as far as i can see its only pvp'ers that are pancakes about there game play so apply the new rules to there rule set and leave us alone.

 

[Logrus]

The majority of the changes are focused on game balance on a whole, with a few being directly focused on either PvP or PvM.

 

[Tm84]

i agree with come of the other why cant the proposed changes be fixed to the pvp playing areas and leave us the pvmer's to the rules as they are now , we already have to concent to entre a pvp area , im sure the hamsters and other can do some quick programing to the entry points to the pvp areas to make this happen, ive spent yrs making toons and altering them to the verious rule changes to get the best out of my game play and now you propose to change it all again " if its not broken dont fix it" and as far as i can see its only pvp'ers that are pancakes about there game play so apply the new rules to there rule set and leave us alone.

well, nothing was really broken until gear specs came out from AOS. The only thinkg was mages were over power back in the day. So when you say "If it's not broken don't fix it" then AOS should of never been put out and just adjusted the pvp damage of mages.

 

[Another Lamer]

well, nothing was really broken until gear specs came out from AOS. The only thinkg was mages were over power back in the day. So when you say "If it's not broken don't fix it" then AOS should of never been put out and just adjusted the pvp damage of mages.

True about AOS.

Mages/dexers before were fairly balanced, only time dexers got ripped apart was when they were stupid enough not to have balanced stats (mindblast). Also remember most pvp mages didn't bother with armer. Faction dexers did have blessed spears of power that did a para every 3rd hit.

 

[Violence]

Nostalgic.. But nauseous! Casters are Macro Masters, true.. But Melee requires much more tactical planning! Precisely due to its simplicity >.> You wouldn't understand, PVP/Cook-Mage!! ;Pp

 

[Tm84]

i believe you can balance everything out if you just make it the way it was. And just work on making things better vs adding booster packs or some new goodie items. However i dont think imbuing would be of any use after that lol. Remove trammel... or just make fel one big land for all servers with no housing. When u go to trammel it's your own shard. Population isn't has large as it use to be.. soooo that's my idea to balance everything and fix every problem. But i do have a fel house which would suck, as long if it makes it better i dont care... Hell with the amount of poeple actually spending time in Fel with all shards combine it might only have max loud of 2-3 shards... still no where near back in the day

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

well, nothing was really broken until gear specs came out from AOS. The only thinkg was mages were over power back in the day. So when you say "If it's not broken don't fix it" then AOS should of never been put out and just adjusted the pvp damage of mages.

Partial list of bugs and imbalances. (Some of these were fixed, some never were):

• Zero damage spell bug.
• Runics. (Runic Valorite Halbred of Vanquishing = 2 hit kill in some cases.)
• "Blessed Faction Runics."
• New leathers. ("Impossible to fight a mage without a runic or a vanq. weapon.")
• Complaints about the power of naked mages. ("Unrealistic.")
• Lumberjacks.
• One-hit kill Heavy Crossbows of Vanquishing.
• Archers. (Over-powered at start, then under-powered for years and years, then over-powered again considerably after AoS.)

Pre-AoS had its own issues.

-Galen's player

 

[Tm84]

Partial list of bugs and imbalances. (Some of these were fixed, some never were):

• Zero damage spell bug.
• Runics. (Runic Valorite Halbred of Vanquishing = 2 hit kill in some cases.)
• "Blessed Faction Runics."
• New leathers. ("Impossible to fight a mage without a runic or a vanq. weapon.")
• Complaints about the power of naked mages. ("Unrealistic.")
• Lumberjacks.
• One-hit kill Heavy Crossbows of Vanquishing.
• Archers. (Over-powered at start, then under-powered for years and years, then over-powered again considerably after AoS.)

Pre-AoS had its own issues.

-Galen's player

i agree, but all that could of been fixed with a few number change or formuals.
unlike today where you have to think about the gear that may effect everything.
However if they just adjust the base numbers according to the gear then i'm sure it'll work out.
Honestly they should just say i'm sorry and set UO back the way it was. It'll surely bring those thousands of people from the free shards to paids shards.
If your anything like me and dont care about the gear spec and should leave that crap for WOW or all the other games.... sorry getting pissed lol
Anyways back to the testing

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

i agree, but all that could of been fixed with a few number change or formuals.

What you'd said was....

well, nothing was really broken until gear specs came out from AOS.

Granted, you then went on to describe something broken.

The only thinkg was mages were over power back in the day.

I just added to your list.

unlike today where you have to think about the gear that may effect everything.

Again, this was all true once upon a time as well; it's just more complicated and "worse" now.

But we're well-past that. It's really about time we adjusted to the AoS system, at this point we've been with it way longer than we'd been without it.

Interestingly, and very few remember this it seems, but according to the AoS era devs, most of what we saw there was the result of the PvP community wanting as many outcomes as possible to be the result of player choice.

Personally I've always thought that the AoS changes could have been on balance positive or neutral; but they screwed up badly, in part by not having caps until years (as I recall anyway!) after the initial release, thus enabling such things as 5/9 mages and dexers who could swing at bizarre speeds.

What they should have done was have AoS-style changes that enhanced the existing system rather than replace them wholesale. OR enact AoS with caps straight off the bat.

But oh well....It's been years now. We're way past any realistic chance the AoS system will be taken away, and even if we were not, remember that the old system had its own issues as I've tried to outline partially.

-Galen's player

 

[Gowron]

I still don't see how Chivalry impacts PvP in any way, except for the Divine Fury. I've seen that used on occassion, but it hardly puts an imbalance.

Quite frankly, I see this as an overly zealous approach. This has a negligible impact on PvP while it has a higher negative impact to PvM.

Not a big fan.

 

[PaithanTheElf]

I've played ninja mage plenty and it would be pretty close to impossible to fit 40 SDI on a ninja mage who needs HCI/DCI also. Just getting the 15 is hard enough. Only reason I don't want it to be included is because of ninja forms for dismounters. You can't cast in form anyway so there's no harm done.

People ninja forming and just running away from fights is what needs to be fixed.

 

[Cetric]

Guarantee if people weren't all in factions risking stat loss and sitting out for 20minutes, there wouldn't be so many people building 80 or so ninja into everything.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

I still don't see how Chivalry impacts PvP in any way, except for the Divine Fury. I've seen that used on occassion, but it hardly puts an imbalance.

Quite frankly, I see this as an overly zealous approach. This has a negligible impact on PvP while it has a higher negative impact to PvM.

Not a big fan.

The majority of the changes are focused on game balance on a whole, with a few being directly focused on either PvP or PvM.

Reading comprehension wins the day. Obviously the Chivalry changes have nothing to do with PvP so learn to read. "Combat GAME changes" no where do you see "PvP changes".

 

[Nasir k]

way to kill the sampire.. m what the sampire to powerful for pvm??? this chivalry change just comes across as mean spirited and ridiculous. now that template will be about as useless as what you did to the bard. thanks uo.

 

[Nasir k]

]People ninja forming and just running away from fights is what needs to be fixed.[/QUOTE]

hmmm. kinda the point of the ninja. appear, attack, disappear, repeat.

 

[Cetric]

]People ninja forming and just running away from fights is what needs to be fixed.

hmmm. kinda the point of the ninja. appear, attack, disappear, repeat.[/QUOTE]

It'd be different if people actually played their ninja as a ninja... but most people will build 80 ninja into stuff JUST for the ability to run away.

This point is not negotiable.

 

[spoonyd]

People ninja forming and just running away from fights is what needs to be fixed.

Then I will die every fight bc I can't get a heal when disjointed! Lol dexxer for life now!

 

[Ender]

way to kill the sampire.. m what the sampire to powerful for pvm??? this chivalry change just comes across as mean spirited and ridiculous. now that template will be about as useless as what you did to the bard. thanks uo.

It doesn't kill it. You need more mana for LS. Not a big deal. It doesn't double on repeated use. Constant 6 mana (with LMC) per attack, and you should leech that back every hit. Consecrate weapon, so what, get some elemental damage type weapons or just invest in a bit more chiv. Divine Fury changes? Meh. Use total refresh potions. Enemy of One? I haven't tested to see how it works with my current setup but it may not be changed too much.

 

[Nasir k]

It doesn't kill it. You need more mana for LS. Not a big deal. It doesn't double on repeated use. Constant 6 mana (with LMC) per attack, and you should leech that back every hit. Consecrate weapon, so what, get some elemental damage type weapons or just invest in a bit more chiv. Divine Fury changes? Meh. Use total refresh potions. Enemy of One? I haven't tested to see how it works with my current setup but it may not be changed too much.[/QUOTE]

well i actually don't run a sampire i run a necro warrior with heal instead of bushido and fight in vamp form but the ability to use the low chivalry is pretty critical to the template.when fighting the bigger baddies like navery, corgul, medusa or a champ boss enemy of one is pretty critical although i do use divine fury, consecrate weapon, remove curse and dispell evil very often as well and when just running a spawn i use only consecrate and divine fury non stop with a mana leech weapon. i mean at 59 chiv i already fizzle everything including sacred journey about a third of the time. this change is majorly lame... maybe i can get my chiv up around 90 with some imbued jewels but still this is very lame. without the custom jewels (if that even works at 89 skill?) i'm back to using recall scrolls and collecting death robes. running this template as it is still takes skill, way more than a tamer or mega mage. other than pvp to me it looks like there sending the warrior down the road of the provoker.

 

[Kelly Daze]

Increase of spell damage increase cap from *15% to 40%* for templates that focus in only one spell school. Focused players, having no more than 30.0 modified skill points in another main skill set will be able to benefit from the raised cap.Main skills include: Magery, Necromancy, Mysticism, Ninjitsu, Bushido, Animal Taming, Musicianship, Chivary, Spellweaving. *subject to change based on testing

How will inscription work in PVP now? Will it add 10% on top of the 30%?

 

[TurboTimmy]

How will inscription work in PVP now? Will it add 10% on top of the 30%?

This question has already been answered several times, but the answer is yes.

You can get 30% SDI from items, if you meet the "focusing" criteria
Then you can get 10% SDI from inscription as well, for a total of 40%

 

[puni666]

Yet, they leave a similar spell, Lightning Strike.... alone. Again, guessing because the accepted template of a sampire uses 120 Bushido.

I think the point of balancing Lightning Strike was to prevent people that spam Lightning Strike in PVP who use a weapon that's meant as an assist weapon and turning out AI damage for such a low mana cost and at a high speed. Oh, and it prevents a lot of sampires from needing to put HCI/LMC/Mana Inc in their suits.

Take a Cyclone for example. It's the most recently abused weapon with lightning strike. It's mainly used as an assist weapon, but people spam lightning strike with it at cap speed and for 3 mana to turn out massive damage with critical hits in pvp. Usually people have to spend 12-15 mana for one hit with a specific weapon to get this much damage then it doubles in cost, and the other advantage is that people don't have to switch weapons to do it! Spam Lightning strike with a cyclone for 3 mana at cap speed or switch to a Soul Glaive that swings between 1.75-2s for 15 mana to get 35 dmg? Hmm you decide.

I'd say that far out weights the small part of a low budget sampire that uses lighting strike to compensate for a poor quality suit. Just put mods on your suit when you can and use lightning strike a little bit less.

 

[Merion]

Well, I never liked the sampire. Tried it for a while but found it to be just a boring template, so no pity from me there - and hopefully no offense either

But I'm also concerned about these changes for my BushChiv Archers and Throwers. This will get really hard on the mana. And not only because of the mana vamping. I usually run without resisting spells, so with the increased apple timer and the changes to chiv, I will have to drop my 60ish points in focus and raise chiv to 120 as well as add FC to my suit in order to be able to cast remove curse fast enough.

So, apart from having to drop some other properties from my suit for FC, this means more mana cost for LS, less mana and stam reg through focus, less stam reg through divine fury, more mana cost due to casting more remove curse.

These changes are really hard on the warrior templates. As this is a pvp change, I wonder who thought warriors are overpowered....?
Personally I have more problems with all those mage/mystic/something chars.

 

[Tm84]

These changes are really hard on the warrior templates. As this is a pvp change, I wonder who thought warriors are overpowered....?
Personally I have more problems with all those mage/mystic/something chars.

I play both roles, before i AOS the mage top dog, and now they still are even after this patch it's still going to be with 30% SDI on fireballs that already does around 8-18 damage on a 70's suit is now gonna even be hitting harder with curse even more! and with 120 resist. This is just the lower end spells that take about .25 or .75 secs to cast, and you can precast as well so 0.0 secs to cast. Now if mage has anything that counters disrupt well it's gonna suck for dexxers. Let's not even get into mystic we all know how cheap their spells are let's tac on 30% SDI to spell plague that already hurts with 15% let's double that....

And dexxers. what to counter all these. Speed right? (dexxer), apples.., pots...spell resist that doesn't reduce damage really... Apples are nerfed to 30 secs when 15 secs was wayyy too long consider casters can put it right back on you right away (maybe add cannot be cursed for 15-30 secs after eatting apple).
Resist is only good at 120 just so you won't get para or cursed all the time.
Apples nerf
We use mana that takes roughly 20 mana with 30-40% LMC for AI... with a pool of 80 or 110 at best i guess i can't get mine that high but i hear people can without cutting into their str or dex. and double the mana for back to back cast around 40 mana if you want to even get close to the damage mages/casters do.
just the main parts that i see wrong with the patch. it's my feedback with both sides of the playing field.
Casters 10% SDI and 25% being focused skilled. Dexxer well last that i know SDI has nothing to do with bush or ninjitsu so no benefit there. apples are taken away pretty much. So what really got nerffed?

Nerffed : dexxers... warriors more mana consumption

who got buffed? - Pure Casters.. not even pure casters cause the damage is about the same being a muilti class caster

Archers got buffed with their special moves actually working the way it suppose to

Chiv, i didn't try chiv on the test so i can't say for that.

On the another note:

Be nice to get rid of HCI and DCI and have that scaled with the players Dex
And Stamina

Have mages/casters using any kind of parry a chance of disrupted if parried an attack for having to take in the blow or parrying it aside.

Bring the use of plate armor back into the game like you can go OVER 70 resist if in full plate bonus to 5 or more plate armor pieces something like that.

Bring the use of a 2-handed weapons back into pvp

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

These changes are really hard on the warrior templates. As this is a pvp change, I wonder who thought warriors are overpowered....?
Personally I have more problems with all those mage/mystic/something chars.

It has been noted that the changes are not PvP centric. They are simply Combat Centric, with some being focused on PvP and others on PvM. No comment on if I agree with all of them or not, just responding to the fact you think its all about PvP. And to argue they are not extremely powerful in PvM would be silly

 

[Kelleron]

I haven't done much test playing, so all I've basically done is read the thread. Please don't flame the hell out of me if t his idea is out to lunch. I'd like some feedback from those that have been very involved.

What about putting apples back to 45 seconds and creating a chance for Resisting Magic to outright resist stat changing spell, i.e., curse, weaken, etc. Much like the way it works for poison.

It would reduce the reliance on apples and make Resist a more valuable skill set (as I personally think it should be).

Also, some people have observed that pvp mages are getting a bit of a buff. Not sure if that's a fact, but this would make mage pvp less of a sure thing (wouldn't necessary know if the target resisted the curse) and a bit more unpredictable - much like dexer pvp is (whiff, hit, whiff - all a roll of the dice).

 

[Tm84]

mages don't miss. And honestly the magic has to come from somewhere like their hands... and not out of the targets ass. We fix this and all classes would be on an even-cue

 

[puni666]

mages don't miss. And honestly the magic has to come from somewhere like their hands... and not out of the targets ass. We fix this and all classes would be on an even-cue

Dexers have the advantage of not being able to be interrupted by most things, but gain the down side of needing Stamina/HCI (as a minimum). Only way you can interrupt one is with a disarm, para shot, nerve strike, DCI, parry, or a combination of the lot.

Casting classes can cast from anywhere and hit anything w/o HCI, but have the down side of any negative action that effects them stopping their cast. Oh, and evasion screws with them also.

Understand the balance?

 

[Tm84]

Dexers have the advantage of not being able to be interrupted by most things, but gain the down side of needing Stamina/HCI (as a minimum). Only way you can interrupt one is with a disarm, para shot, nerve strike, DCI, parry, or a combination of the lot.

Casting classes can cast from anywhere and hit anything w/o HCI, but have the down side of any negative action that effects them stopping their cast. Oh, and evasion screws with them also.

Understand the balance?

what balance when they put on a weapon and fix that problem. Not to mention protection suure you may cast alittle slower have a little lower resist, but you can just heal that under .25 secs anyways right? What balance?

 

[puni666]

what balance when they put on a weapon and fix that problem. Not to mention protection suure you may cast alittle slower have a little lower resist, but you can just heal that under .25 secs anyways right? What balance?

Never mind