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[Feedback] Combat Game Balance

W

Wojoe

Guest
I'm going to ask you to look at the ability to spam infectious strike using weapons treated with deadly poison. The ability to spam this special move with weapons that swing at cap is totaly overpowered combined with the cure potion change. You should consider infectious strike only giving the same % chance of hitting for lethal that mages get to cast it.

You do know the infectious strike special move bumps the level of posion to the next higher level i do hope...and it's already a problem on test.

thanks
 
T

Tm84

Guest
I'm going to ask you to look at the ability to spam infectious strike using weapons treated with deadly poison. The ability to spam this special move with weapons that swing at cap is totaly overpowered combined with the cure potion change. You should consider infectious strike only giving the same % chance of hitting for lethal that mages get to cast it.

You do know the infectious strike special move bumps the level of posion to the next higher level i do hope...and it's already a problem on test.

thanks
it is i agree, also mages are spamming it as well, not as strong but it can be and just as deadly. Depending on your distance.
 

Lynk

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
It really is a crutch. It is basically spam lethal until they are out of cures (which takes 2 minutes).

Once they are out of cures, you switch to AI or big spell. Or if you're fighting a mage, switch to harm spam after the lethal. Good luck getting an arch cure off unless you go to pro. But if you go to pro, they just omen/psn again. Pretty fast cast...
 

puni666

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
It really is a crutch. It is basically spam lethal until they are out of cures (which takes 2 minutes).

Once they are out of cures, you switch to AI or big spell. Or if you're fighting a mage, switch to harm spam after the lethal. Good luck getting an arch cure off unless you go to pro. But if you go to pro, they just omen/psn again. Pretty fast cast...
Sound super fun... that's why I'm putting 50% EP and alchy on all chars if this goes through.
 

Lynk

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Sound super fun... that's why I'm putting 50% EP and alchy on all chars if this goes through.
There has to be a balance somewhere... I don't know what that balance is.

The nature of how poison impacts PvP makes it difficult to scale.

It seems like it is either worthless, or OP.
 

puni666

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
There has to be a balance somewhere... I don't know what that balance is.

The nature of how poison impacts PvP makes it difficult to scale.

It seems like it is either worthless, or OP.
It's going to be rough with the increased ranged damage paired with a poison which pretty much acts like a mortal now if you consider the time wasted trying to cure it. Maybe it should be modified to being just a DoT instead of heal prevention method, but then you're back to worthless again.
 

Cetric

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Been playing a nox dexer on gl sometimes lately.. poisoning is still heavily useful, and really doesn't need a giant bump. Hell, just increase the failed cure pot chance ever so slightly, and thatd be ok.
 
C

Cloak&Dagger

Guest
what balance when they put on a weapon and fix that problem. Not to mention protection suure you may cast alittle slower have a little lower resist, but you can just heal that under .25 secs anyways right? What balance?
.25 seconds? wtf? Assuming you are the most unlucky person in the world, going in protection a mage could still not kill a dexer, I mean a dexer who is just standing there hitting them would most likely die trying to heal standing there than it would cause the dexer to run off. The balance would be in the rare case that neither dies. (eventually I am sure the mage will run out of mana)
 
T

TurboTimmy

Guest
Any Idea As to when this publish will be pushed to production shards?
 
V

Vet Asylum

Guest
Enchanted Apples:
Cooldown Increased to 45
They now have a chance to fail depending on the level and number of curses applied to the user.
Failure does not invoke the cooldown period.
This is a bit much, 45 seconds with a chance of failing? I'd remove the fail chance and have timer at 30 seconds. Otherwise mortal spam will kill anyone pretty quickly.


Without vampiric embrace/cursed weapon a character cannot melee most peerless level creatures alone.
I'm pretty sure it was never intended for people to solo any peerless.



It really is a crutch. It is basically spam lethal until they are out of cures (which takes 2 minutes).
This is true. Coming back and seeing this I will plan on making a necro fencer with poison and spamming dp and if possible mortal.

The current poison changes are overpowered. The lethal success chance in magery should be dropped considering cast time to cast poison. 1 in 10 chances is pretty high considering you can probably cast that within a 30 second time frame.


Also I never understood why it is possible to use Confidence to heal while you are mortaled since there is no other method that can do so.


I agree with the lightning strike mana cost increase.

I like the enemy of one toggle.


How is consecrate weapon scaled?
 

Lynk

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
You're pretty late in testing these since the changes were revamped and the new ones are already on origin.

I'll only comment on one thing below.

Also I never understood why it is possible to use Confidence to heal while you are mortaled since there is no other method that can do so.
Life leech with curse weapon also heals through mortal and poison.

Life leech from vamp embrace does too.

Life leech from weapon property does too.

Spirit speak also heals through mortal and poison.
 
V

Vet Asylum

Guest
Life leech with curse weapon also heals through mortal and poison.

Life leech from vamp embrace does too.

Life leech from weapon property does too.

Spirit speak also heals through mortal and poison.

Thanks, clearly an oversight on my part. It seems to me that confidence will be the only effective method to combat mortals coupled with the apple nerf after this patch where previously it may have been imabalanced.



It's likely though archers or throwers would never let a short range dexer in range of them to use life leech.
Aside from that with short and ranged dexers I don't think many pvpers would stay in range of a hit after a mortal to take the chance of getting lucky enough to get hp from a life leech or the 20% life drain from vamp embrace. I tried to stick around a gargoyle after a mortal and got my ass kicked every time. I don't know what weapon they use for the mortal but it seems it's very fast and rarely miss. (Although the other factor is that I suck at pvp currently.)

For vamp. embrace, if i understand it right, at 150 hp and someone uses vamp. embrace for a 20% drain earns 30 hp where a concussion can do 40+. Couple this with longer apples times when they can spam mortal constantly doesn't seem worth the risk to me.

I think at 120 bushido, which makes you hard to hit them unless you can disarm, you can heal up to 40 hp per confidence which can take mere seconds.

I've not seen spirit speak used much to know if the formula i saw is correct or the what the cast time is but looking at the formula given the max (Max -- (Spirit Speak x 10) /100 + 4) hp you can heal at a shot is 16 if you're not near a body.


I'm welcome to corrects and suggestions. I need to find a decent template to pvp with again. Dexer or mage it doesnt matter.
 

Melchior1

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
It's funny how this discussion is about game balance when the game went terribly unbalanced when factions got their uber gear and what not. I honestly can't understand if this was some forced move to try and get most people who enjoy pvping or doing champ spawns to join a faction because of the gear. Who cares about stat loss. If you have enough people cheating and wearing the best gear the game has to offer, then a regular character wanting to pvp doesn't stand a chance. And I mention cheating knowingly that I will get glares and bad comments but what ever happened to the proposed Punk Buster? Imagine how many more people would pvp if the faction player vs non-faction player combat would be balanced and also if Punk Buster were in place or something like it. You'd have what we had in 2000 which was a sense of pride and players who stood up to evil and just plain out bad people. Those are long lost memories that fade with time. Now pvp is completely out of control like unemployment. It's so bad and mismanaged that it would take a miracle to repair what has been broken for years. Certain individuals should feel shame for introducing their out-side of game bad habits and filthy trash talk. I am not some saint but there are kids and mothers that play this game. They don't need to hear all that trash. All this comes from the pvp communities across every shard. No one, I mean no one currently playing in trammel will ever slightly think about stepping into felucca because they know what they are up against. They are up against players who cheat and stand for nothing good at all. So, Messana, how do you propose to bring the "good" back to felucca? Everything started as fel but good people still lived and live there.I don't feel that paying customers deserve to have to submit to general chat, drama infested reality show called faction pvp. No disrespect to all you hardcore old school faction people out there.
 

Melchior1

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
You're pretty late in testing these since the changes were revamped and the new ones are already on origin.

I'll only comment on one thing below.



Life leech with curse weapon also heals through mortal and poison.

Life leech from vamp embrace does too.

Life leech from weapon property does too.

Spirit speak also heals through mortal and poison.
Honestly I haven't pvp'd in so long but I thought they stopped life leech in pvp and it's only for pvm now. because if they brought it back, omg the possibilities of staying alive longer due to honest circumstances. Which are rare.
 
V

Vet Asylum

Guest
All this comes from the pvp communities across every shard. No one, I mean no one currently playing in trammel will ever slightly think about stepping into felucca because they know what they are up against. They are up against players who cheat and stand for nothing good at all.
Believe it or not, not everyone that pvps is a rampant "cheater" who would make a sailor blush. I'm not sure how relevant the rest of your post is since imbuing came out. Factions isn't for everyone, but then again no one is forcing you to participate either.

As far as life leech I'm unaware of it ever being taken out of pvp, although I really don't think it is that effective.
 

Dan123The123Man

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Believe it or not, not everyone that pvps is a rampant "cheater" who would make a sailor blush. I'm not sure how relevant the rest of your post is since imbuing came out. Factions isn't for everyone, but then again no one is forcing you to participate either.

As far as life leech I'm unaware of it ever being taken out of pvp, although I really don't think it is that effective.
If you can find someone lemme know, it'd be a nice change to fight an honest player. I think I blush about everytime I run into the dishonest ones. :-0
 

Melchior1

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Believe it or not, not everyone that pvps is a rampant "cheater" who would make a sailor blush. I'm not sure how relevant the rest of your post is since imbuing came out. Factions isn't for everyone, but then again no one is forcing you to participate either.

As far as life leech I'm unaware of it ever being taken out of pvp, although I really don't think it is that effective.
Yeah it was in a pub waaaaay back when bushido just straight owned and they nerfed it. They said they were taking LL out of pvp and leaving it only for pvm. I have tested this with my guild and it still don't work. I think you see today's pvpers with life leech weps because they are doing champs and when being raided they have that chance of being target by the spawn and can leech real fast. That's just my guess.
 

puni666

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
Yeah it was in a pub waaaaay back when bushido just straight owned and they nerfed it. They said they were taking LL out of pvp and leaving it only for pvm. I have tested this with my guild and it still don't work. I think you see today's pvpers with life leech weps because they are doing champs and when being raided they have that chance of being target by the spawn and can leech real fast. That's just my guess.
It wasn't taken out of PvP, and bushido needed to be balanced. Life leech works the same as it does on monsters. Say you have a weapon that has 50%. U hit for 35 damage on an AI you'll gain anywhere from 1%-50% of the damage you dealt back in HP. Same thing for mana leech.
 

Klapauc

Sage
Stratics Veteran
It wasn't taken out of PvP, and bushido needed to be balanced. Life leech works the same as it does on monsters. Say you have a weapon that has 50%. U hit for 35 damage on an AI you'll gain anywhere from 1%-50% of the damage you dealt back in HP. Same thing for mana leech.
For your life leech example, its 0-30% of that 50% from the damage dealt.
For mana leech, 0-40% of [percentage on weapon] from damage dealt.
 
V

Vet Asylum

Guest
Here is what the formula stated.

Magic Item Propeties

If you hit your target for 50 damage with a 60% Hit Life Leech weapon, you have a chance of healing between 0 (50 * 30% * 1% = 0.15) and 9 (50 * 30% * 60%) hit points.



Do gargoyles 5 hit chance increase exceed the normal 45 cap? If so doesn't this affect the RNG calculator and make it imbalanced?

Also do those fish pies that give you 8 hci or dci exceed the cap?

Thanks.
 
C

Cloak&Dagger

Guest
Here is what the formula stated.

Magic Item Propeties

If you hit your target for 50 damage with a 60% Hit Life Leech weapon, you have a chance of healing between 0 (50 * 30% * 1% = 0.15) and 9 (50 * 30% * 60%) hit points.



Do gargoyles 5 hit chance increase exceed the normal 45 cap? If so doesn't this affect the RNG calculator and make it imbalanced?

Also do those fish pies that give you 8 hci or dci exceed the cap?

Thanks.

Gayrgoyles have a 50 HCI cap. Not sure about the Pies though.
 

puni666

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
Do gargoyles 5 hit chance increase exceed the normal 45 cap? If so doesn't this affect the RNG calculator and make it imbalanced?

Thanks.
Yes. But that's how we attract attention to slowly progressing new content that wasn't thought out very well.
 

Klapauc

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Do gargoyles 5 hit chance increase exceed the normal 45 cap? If so doesn't this affect the RNG calculator and make it imbalanced?

Thanks.
Yes. But that's how we attract attention to slowly progressing new content that wasn't thought out very well.
Only speaking for pvm, but the 50 hci on my garg whammie vs the 43 on my sampire seem to make a bigger difference sometimes then the formula does suggest. The garg basically never misses. Seems the rng is affected a bit more here.
 
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