[Feedback] Combat Game Balance

[Tina Small]

Just throwing this out there as an additional piece of information:

If you want to put Chivalry on a piece of jewelry, the other skills in the same group for imbuing or for loot spawning purposes are Peacemaking, Throwing, Ninjitsu, Archery, Resisting Spells, and Healing. In other words, it's impossible to have Chivalry on the same piece of jewelry with any of these other skills.

 

[Lynk]

I is Lynk, and I is confussssed!

Oh my, chiv changes will be a lil annoying for your cross shard pvmers Lynk!

Na.. my builds are extremely versatile. I'll have this fixed PRONTO but won't fret until changes are finalized.

Don't worry Saint, I'll still be farming out harrys with LD on all the servers

 

[Tina Small]

Wait wait wait.. just realized parry mages will do well once again!

I was just wondering about that, not that I know much about them.

 

[flappy6]

necro dexers will prolly be nice if they can fit poison in

 

[Storm]

I have broken the discussion into groups

http://vboards.stratics.com/uo-test-center/245029-chivalry-changes.html

http://vboards.stratics.com/uo-test-center/245028-special-move-changes.html

http://vboards.stratics.com/uo-test-center/245027-healing-changes.html

http://vboards.stratics.com/uo-test-center/245026-poisoning-changes.html

http://vboards.stratics.com/uo-test-center/245025-focus-changes.html

please use these for detailed discussions

 

[Cetric]

Wait wait wait.. just realized parry mages will do well once again!

parry... hah, scribe nox!

 

[CovenantX]

hrmm 40% sdi cap will only effect pure mages as it looks.. thank god tamers dont get that cap *almost had a heart attack*

45 second cooldown on apples AND a chance to fail seems a little rediculous

Also.. do apples now remove spellplague AND other curses? or just spellplague while under other curse effects? If so, ^^^^^ is a more important fix than a cooldown timer.

 

[flappy6]

im still stuck after 20 mins,i faction runed to minax base and couldnt move,died and still cant move

 

[PaithanTheElf]

1. I read this thread and I am still not positive how the 40% spell modifier will work. And does it just raise the cap, so you can have 40% sdi on your suit?


2. Apple timers NEED to be at 45 seconds. Anyone that says that is to short is crazy. The timers used to be 120 seconds people (with no complaints when they first came out). People are just used to getting cursed, appling and running around for the 15 second timer. It is pathetic to watch and the timer needs to stay at 45 seconds minimum.

3. I agree with chad- there should be another item like an enchanted peach created to remove ONLY mortal wound ever 15-20 seconds. 45 seconds of taking mortal wound could be impossible to live through if you do not have chiv/mystic.

4. Anyone who is complaining about chiv needs to realize this has been needed for a long time. With necro, if I have low karma, do I only need 50 necromancy to cast all my spells? No. I need full necro AND spirit speak. Chiv users should be thankful that there is not another skill tied with it like its counterpart (necro) has. So be thankful you got to use a skill at such a cheap cost of only high karma for so long.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

1. I read this thread and I am still not positive how the 40% spell modifier will work. And does it just raise the cap, so you can have 40% sdi on your suit?


2. Apple timers NEED to be at 45 seconds. Anyone that says that is to short is crazy. The timers used to be 120 seconds people (with no complaints when they first came out). People are just used to getting cursed, appling and running around for the 15 second timer. It is pathetic to watch and the timer needs to stay at 45 seconds minimum.

3. I agree with chad- there should be another item like an enchanted peach created to remove ONLY mortal wound ever 15-20 seconds. 45 seconds of taking mortal wound could be impossible to live through if you do not have chiv/mystic.

4. Anyone who is complaining about chiv needs to realize this has been needed for a long time. With necro, if I have low karma, do I only need 50 necromancy to cast all my spells? No. I need full necro AND spirit speak. Chiv users should be thankful that there is not another skill tied with it like its counterpart (necro) has. So be thankful you got to use a skill at such a cheap cost of only high karma for so long.

To 1: it will increase the SDI cap from 15 to 40 so you have to have 40 sdi on your suit and only be a purist in one class of casting.

 

[Storm]

I have posted specific threads for the categories and would like to see everyone post specific questions there so its easier for us all to talk about certain areas without having to dig through un relevant posts lets keep this thread more general please

 

[Saint of Killers]

Na.. my builds are extremely versatile. I'll have this fixed PRONTO but won't fret until changes are finalized.

Don't worry Saint, I'll still be farming out harrys with LD on all the servers

Heh, just playin' with ya. I know you'll adjust to changes, as will I. I love shake ups in the game.

I'll just wait for you to come up with a new template, and then I'll copy/tweak it, and do better with it than you as always!

 

[Storm]

I have now stickied the threads

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

What is bad? The Devs are bad. Why? Because they lack the talent, inclination and patience to do things well.

Post some code here that is better than what they have, I will even wait 2 years for you to come up with it.

 

[puni666]

OMG WTF are you Devs thining about? Screw over PvP dexterS then screw over PvM sampireS .

Well it looks like 11 years may be enough for me.

It's called balancing. Things won't be as simple as they were before. You may have to try now.

 

[longshanks]

god. there was 1 thread and now i have to go through 4. this is an outrage!!!! I'm closing my stratics account. Why did the old stratics server have to blow up. the old stratics was much better.

 

[Rupert Avery]

I think many people have asked about why certain skills are pointless at their highest level.

things like Chiv.. everyone tells me "what's the point on having it higher" well now you get a skill that spells are based on the skill its makes sense and i like all the changes, and the Enchanted apples one is gonna be interesting as well as the cure pots changes!

 

[Storm]

god. there was 1 thread and now i have to go through 4. this is an outrage!!!! I'm closing my stratics account. Why did the old stratics server have to blow up. the old stratics was much better.

lol try being me i just increased my work load

 

[puni666]

Another thing that may be obtuse would be Hail Storm damage with the new ideas.

As it is now it's sitting at 80-86 damage.
Add in this bonus 40%
Inscribe 10%

Bringing it up to 120-129.

Not really sure how to add that in with the normal players resists, but I'm guessing it's a ton of damage even at 70 cold resist.

Oh and tank mages will be doing a ton of burst damage also. Not saying it's a bad thing. It's just going to be rough dealing with.

45 seconds is to high on the apples unless you plan on reducing the duration of mortal (which is a bad idea) or add in a resistance to mortal after the first mortal. Not really sure of you're thinking on this idea.

In all honestly I'm surprised you didn't take away the 5% HCI over buff that gargoyles get seeing the growing trend of 1.5 swinging soul glaives being hurled everywhere.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

It's not my job. It's theirs. At my job, if I didn't do something well I would probably get in some trouble. If I had a long history of not doing something well I would get fired.

You claimed something to be true I asked for proof. Only a handful of players are unhappy with any one thing at any one time, that is called balance. If you can not do better than you can not assess talent. And as I pointed out since a smal portion of the population is unhappy with any one thing at any one time (aside from Trammel and AOS which a good portion was unhappy) that means they are doing their job right. I am sorry you are displeased and disgruntle. I am sorry you could not civilly post a reply to Storms request, and I am sorry but your reply to me was less than fulfilling.

Edit: I was not offended only pointing out the obvious reverse of your post.

 

[Anonymoose]

You claimed something to be true I asked for proof. Only a handful of players are unhappy with any one thing at any one time, that is called balance. If you can not do better than you can not assess talent. And as I pointed out since a smal portion of the population is unhappy with any one thing at any one time (aside from Trammel and AOS which a good portion was unhappy) that means they are doing their job right. I am sorry you are displeased and disgruntle. I am sorry you could not civilly post a reply to Storms request, and I am sorry but your reply to me was less than fulfilling.

Edit: I was not offended only pointing out the obvious reverse of your post.

Sorry to leave you so unsatisfied. I do not, however, think it is a stretch to say that ever since AoS there has been an overt trend of poorly thought-out changes which then have to be ammended a week later. Clearly you are living in your own little world if you think this is not the case. Ask anyone else who does more than chop trees or sews your dresses for you. I do give credit to Devs for effort, even though thats what they're getting paid for, but these changes miss the mark. The number of replies to that point so far is evidence enough. I hope you are fulfilled. Please feel free of your obligation to defend the Devs now. *logs out*

 

[Kim Li of LS]

OK, I admit i have never been "into" pvp but I have been reading stratics about factions and general pvp for about 3 years now and I do not recall EVER seeing "I got powned by mad CHIV". The poisoning, yea, the specials, ok make some unused ones kina cool.


I would also say if the benefit of divine fury is going to go down (stamina) the dci penalty should too and/or ssi should go up at chiv>=110 and chiv=120.


As far as enchanted apples, I understand they are an issue in pvp, but 45 second makes them basically useless for pvm, just wait a few more second and most curses are gone anyway..and if they can fail, trashcan.



Ok I missed the 'general game balance' part of the post, that was me not reading-pure and simple-got to rushed to get to the changes.


I also think requiring 4 skills to effectively use a special is a bit much:

weapon skill 100+
tactics 60 or 90
bushido/ninja ??100??
parry 70+

for block, so around 350 skill points to begin to get the damage reduction???? like 500 to get the full benefit? more?crazy.

maybe wep skill
tac
bush or ninj or parry

so it would only take about 300

just a concept I probably wont use it anyway.

 

[Storm]

I would think eoo would be a good thing for pvp keep in mind if anyone else hits the attacker they are taking increased damage ....not sure if thats what you were saying

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

OK, I admit i have never been "into" pvp but I have been reading stratics about factions and general pvp for about 3 years now and I do not recall EVER seeing "I got powned by mad CHIV". The poisoning, yea, the specials, ok make some unused ones kina cool.

I do not see how they can even begin to claim the chiv adjustments are pvp related.

Try this:

Enemy of One: does NOTHING WHATSOEVER (to my knowledge) in pvp, so 'balance' it for pvp

I would also say if the benefit of divine fury is going to go down (stamina) the dci penalty should too.


As far as enchanted apples, I understand they are an issue in pvp, but 45 second makes them basically useless for pvm, just wait a few more second and most curses are gone anyway..and if they can fail, trashcan.

This is just my initial impression, but the balancing EoO for pvp thing just kina blows my mind...

Well, the main chiv adjustment for pvp would be the fact the EoO will work in pvp. Aside from that, I have not tested the other things to really say.

 

[Cetric]

Another thing that may be obtuse would be Hail Storm damage with the new ideas.

As it is now it's sitting at 80-86 damage.
Add in this bonus 40%
Inscribe 10%

Bringing it up to 120-129.

Not really sure how to add that in with the normal players resists, but I'm guessing it's a ton of damage even at 70 cold resist.

Oh and tank mages will be doing a ton of burst damage also. Not saying it's a bad thing. It's just going to be rough dealing with.

45 seconds is to high on the apples unless you plan on reducing the duration of mortal (which is a bad idea) or add in a resistance to mortal after the first mortal. Not really sure of you're thinking on this idea.

In all honestly I'm surprised you didn't take away the 5% HCI over buff that gargoyles get seeing the growing trend of 1.5 swinging soul glaives being hurled everywhere.

take your damage, such as 120, times .3 (or 30%) the 30% being the damage they will take when they have 70 cold resist

120 * .30 = 36

129 * .30 = 38.7



36/2 +36 (50% spell damage increase) = 54

38.7/2 +38.7 (50% spell damage increase) = 58.05

yea that looks high, but also consider, you have to get 340 skill points (myst/focus/scribe) and build 40sdi into your suit properly, which would be a tough one.

 

[Storm]

true and it is on par with other spells

 

[G.v.P]

Crazy amount of changes. Love all the QQing. I'm totally surprised. Good work EA, PvP may live again.

so i guess a level 6 red weaver will be all the rage in choke points here on out.

rev up that wind

How about a 40 SDI wither? Haha but yeah, full-screen weavers will be nasty. The 40 SDI is going to be nerfed, I can't imagine dexxers not QQing.

god. there was 1 thread and now i have to go through 4. this is an outrage!!!! I'm closing my stratics account. Why did the old stratics server have to blow up. the old stratics was much better.

lol

Another thing that may be obtuse would be Hail Storm damage with the new ideas.

As it is now it's sitting at 80-86 damage.
Add in this bonus 40%
Inscribe 10%

Bringing it up to 120-129.

Not really sure how to add that in with the normal players resists, but I'm guessing it's a ton of damage even at 70 cold resist.

I like how you did some math but then stopped at 70% cold resist lol. If the new base is 120-129 that's 38.7 damage after 70% reduction (easiest way to get that is base times .3). But yeah, 40 SDI is going to get QQ'd.

Honestly... i just through a template together in excel for my next sampire with the assumption that higher chiv=higher reward.

Its pretty simple, and it only requires i switch out my jewels lol

Thanks for being like the only person in this thread who is proactive instead of being a PvM QQer not even testing anything ;D.

No, because of the time, effort and gold spent in building a template. And the tight template is just tossed out the door.

[...]

A sampire isn't that TIGHT of a template. What a change like this will do is MAKE it a tight template, and remove the small variables that currently exist in it.

They have wanted to nerf the sampire ever since they introduced Swoops to the game. It's been on their agenda. Losing the sampire/wammy hurts the individual, it'll hurt me for sure, but the bigger problem, as it's been voiced, is hardly anyone runs more than 70-80 chiv. I mean, I have a tamer who has 115, because there's no point to have 120, but that's another story now.

Exactly! 9 chars to rebuild and suits. Im tired of training, retraining and I got to a point where I was enjoying playing the game with my friends. Make changes to pvp if that is what they wasnt, just leave them out of PVM.

When ya'll quit, can I have your stuff to sell for PvP gear?

Or is there a poison scroll coming out>/?

Nope, no poison scroll on the horizon.

 

[puni666]

take your damage, such as 120, times .3 (or 30%) the 30% being the damage they will take when they have 70 cold resist

120 * .30 = 36

129 * .30 = 38.7



36/2 +36 (50% spell damage increase) = 54

38.7/2 +38.7 (50% spell damage increase) = 58.05

yea that looks high, but also consider, you have to get 340 skill points (myst/focus/scribe) and build 40sdi into your suit properly, which would be a tough one.

Wrestlle 120
Anat 120
Heal 120
Mystic 120
Focus 120
Resists 120
Wood armor enhanced with blood wood made it easy to fit resists + w/e I wanted for a helmet. I'm sure wearing a scrappers would cap me out no SDI rather easily + buff up stone form's casting.

 

[puni666]

I like how you did some math but then stopped at 70% cold resist lol. If the new base is 120-129 that's 38.7 damage after 70% reduction (easiest way to get that is base times .3). But yeah, 40 SDI is going to get QQ'd.

I never realized it was actually based off of a 100% scale The bar doesn't say % so I figured it was some other calculation. Something similar to finding out how much damage a nerve strike would deal at 111.5 bushido.

 

[G.v.P]

I never realized it was actually based off of a 100% scale The bar doesn't say % so I figured it was some other calculation. Something similar to finding out how much damage a nerve strike would deal at 111.5 bushido.

Ah ok . Either way, 40 SDI seems like way too much.

 

[puni666]

Ah ok . Either way, 40 SDI seems like way too much.

Yep, I was thinking 25%. Then mage scribe's would be sitting at 35% which would over buff them from the now actually functioning Psychic Attack.

 

[Elric_Soban]

Cure Potions:
Success chance for curing poison with cure potions has been adjusted.

In which direction?

Cleanse By Fire:
Cure chance for poison has been updated.

In which direction?


The Chivalry nerfs were not nessesary.

The bandage thing.. thats.. interesting. That may prove OP, i suspect it will. Only time will tell tho.

The 40 Sdi thing... at first that seems scary but honestly, how many pure mages do you see out there on the field? Most of 'em hybrids of some kind. I suppose the pure mage just made a combeback. 40 sdi + 120 eval + inscribe.. curse + expl/fs... ouch.

The rest of the changes... are interesting. I like giving all the different underused moves and abilities new life. Sounds like they're trying to revive pure classes like Mage and Paladin. Maybe i'l pull my pally out for pvp after all.

EDIT: about 'focus' classes.. whatabout meditation? wrestling? are those ok or do they prevent you from 'focusing' ?

 

[Vega13]

ONE BIG STEP TO FIXING PVP YOU DEVS HAVE NOT TOUCHED ON IN OVER A YEAR.. FACTIONS! GET RID OF IT, ITS NOT EVEN USED FOR WHAT IT WAS INTENDED FOR WHEN IT WAS BROUGHT BACK 8 YEARS AGO..
THAT WOULD BE A BIG STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION TO FIXING PVP..

 

[Delbrie]

When ya'll quit, can I have your stuff to sell for PvP gear?




No it is spoken for already

 

[Taylor]

I'm genuinely surprised by the negativity. These changes--which are not finalized--seem tailored to many of the expressed desires of Stratics users. Poisons and cure potions, alone, have been a prevailing topic of conversation for a long time.

Until we test the proposed systems, we cannot possibly provide intelligible feedback. Until we provide detailed feedback, the proposed systems cannot be tweaked.

Let us resolve, at the very least, to test these systems, and ideally, allow them to be polished before we dismiss them outright.

 

[aarons6]

i swear the stupid devs dont even play this game..

the apples.. if they have a 45 second cool down timer, then make curse spells have the same or greater timer.. if i get cursed, eat an apple, the monster or player that just cursed me or any other monsters or players shouldn't be able to recurse me right away.. as it was with 8 seconds it was too long with pvm, id eat an apple and then bam recursed.. kinda made apples useless to me. now they really will be.

 

[Delbrie]

I'm genuinely surprised by the negativity. These changes--which are not finalized--seem tailored to many of the expressed desires of Stratics users. Poisons and cure potions, alone, have been a prevailing topic of conversation for a long time.

Until we test the proposed systems, we cannot possibly provide intelligible feedback. Until we provide detailed feedback, the proposed systems cannot be tweaked.

Let us resolve, at the very least, to test these systems, and ideally, allow them to be polished before we dismiss them outright.

Well it would be nice if the time spent on this would be used to actually fix all the bugs from all of the expansions, patches, new items. All I see this doing is creating new bugs that will just be ignored for the next flavor of the day. Bring back GM's that help with in game issues (should not have to wait for hours to just get an automated message to go visit the wqebsite), fix the cheats and duping. I mean afterall we bring all of these (and many more) to your attention, why do they get ignored and all of a sudden chiv is on the list to get changed or some other skill?

 

[SixUnder]

Yep, I was thinking 25%. Then mage scribe's would be sitting at 35% which would over buff them from the now actually functioning Psychic Attack.

12 sdi is to much.

you can allready evil omen flamestrike someone for over 50. but lets bump sdi 4 times that? LOL

this entire thing is bad.

imagin hailstorm or poison strikes with 40 sdi....

HAHAH

 

[ReaperNI]

wow messena this update looks like you just gave a big F U to dexxors thanks for making over power template even more powerful wow way to think this one through.

 

[SixUnder]

Another thing that may be obtuse would be Hail Storm damage with the new ideas.

As it is now it's sitting at 80-86 damage.
Add in this bonus 40%
Inscribe 10%

Bringing it up to 120-129.

Not really sure how to add that in with the normal players resists, but I'm guessing it's a ton of damage even at 70 cold resist.

Oh and tank mages will be doing a ton of burst damage also. Not saying it's a bad thing. It's just going to be rough dealing with.

45 seconds is to high on the apples unless you plan on reducing the duration of mortal (which is a bad idea) or add in a resistance to mortal after the first mortal. Not really sure of you're thinking on this idea.

In all honestly I'm surprised you didn't take away the 5% HCI over buff that gargoyles get seeing the growing trend of 1.5 swinging soul glaives being hurled everywhere.

did the devs actually read what we posted on the forums or did all this stuff just get made up? LOL


and as far as the soul glavies, they are a joke IF you know the game mechanics and what is takes to play or defend against a garg. gargs will not hurt you unless you let them.

 

[SixUnder]

wow messena this update looks like you just gave a big F U to dexxors thanks for making over power template even more powerful wow way to think this one through.

exactly.

hey mystics, necros you own uo.

have a nice day.

 

[5% Luck]

Here is how bad the chiv change was needed.

I bought 15 120 chiv scrolls for 750k

FIFTEEN!

Yea in a week or so Im gona sell em for millions (maybe)but still That is one useless scroll!

 

[5% Luck]

i swear the stupid devs dont even play this game..

the apples.. if they have a 45 second cool down timer, then make curse spells have the same or greater timer.. if i get cursed, eat an apple, the monster or player that just cursed me or any other monsters or players shouldn't be able to recurse me right away.. as it was with 8 seconds it was too long with pvm, id eat an apple and then bam recursed.. kinda made apples useless to me. now they really will be.

being cursed does not make a insta win for any caster. that is by far not the case.

 

[SixUnder]

these are very very bad changes

 

[PaithanTheElf]

45 sec apple timer

omfg are you ********?

game over.

hand pvp over to all mystics and necros.

have a nice day.

Are you ********? Did you know that apple timers were 120 seconds? They got dropped to 1/8 of what they were, that was way to low.

 

[SixUnder]

here is what needs addresed if your going to nerf the apple timer..

mortal spamming..
spell plague spamming...
evil omen spamming..
blood oath spamming...


just for starters, LOL

this new tc idea is so bad.

 

[SixUnder]

Are you ********? Did you know that apple timers were 120 seconds? They got dropped to 1/8 of what they were, that was way to low.

sure, we didnt have mystics then.

spell plague until you run out their apple timer.. and cast away..

and boom your gonna trigger it

hail storm trigger ftw!

 

[Delbrie]

Are you ********? Did you know that apple timers were 120 seconds? They got dropped to 1/8 of what they were, that was way to low.

It is not balance when you change drastically apples and remove curse but do not address the recurse of that player. The curse affects should also be looked at (what is balanced, i do not know) otherwise it is an unfair advantage and not balancing. This should have been looked at (but was not considered) by actually tweaking and making resist a functional skill.

 

[Shelleybean]

Why do pvp balances always end up being pvm nerfs?

 

[ReaperNI]

dont dare make these changes your killing super nerfed dexxors even more.

1) if you nerf apples make sure you put that same nerf on cleansing winds.(im sure youve never pvped against a mystic mage in protection/spaming winds)

2) you buffed the worst warrior specials in the game . and nerfed lighting strike

3)nerfed chivalry killing a 4/6 chiv warrior template

4)id love to watch you withstand a scribe mage with 50 sdi dump a combo (curse explosion flamestirke ebolt ) what will that hit for 300 dmg?

5)nerfed potions. take a mage vs a warrior without potions warrior runing 140 dex can cure a poison in 4 secs a mage at 2/6 can cure it in what under 1 sec?

6)why dont we just delete resisting spells completely?hard enough to make a dexxor compete with these super mages and resisting spells has been reduced to what reducing some time on curses and resisting poison/para what 50% of the time? it useless (be better if it reduce spell damage like it used to)

old uo is dead warriors no longer need no mana at all. we need specials to get the upper hand on mages and constantly the specials we have are getting nerfed (deathstrikes on archers/throwers) the ninja book is a joke what is there 3 useful spells? mortal reduce to completely useless all the other ones easy enough for a half decent mage to mini heal through till the warrior runs out of mana.

i dont know bout you but this " fix " seems very one sided and i wouldnt surpised if you killed off the dexxor template comletely

Reaper