[Feedback] Combat Game Balance

[ReaperNI]

curse explosion spellplauge magic arrow spell trigger go try it and have fun with it. then fix it causes its way op . with the exception of evasion spells never miss where a dexxor has a 50/50 shot of landing hits on a mage.

and dont mind paith we arent allowed to discuss how his guild is so good, on these boards due to TOS violations

 

[Cetric]

Well this thread is getting derailed quick... if you want to give actual feedback or see what others think refer to the stickied individual changes at the top.

Any chance a mod could edit the uohall post to add the links to the individual changes?

 

[Mook Chessy]

ok...if pure mage gets a 40 sdi cap then what about a pure warrior? if I have only one weapon skill, rare these days, do I get a 50 point AI?


A mage will cast curse (overpowered since day one) drop my 85 fire to 60 and while I wait a week for the apple or faction aid he will hit me with 50 point EX and 60 point FS, oh and dont for get his DM blasting away at me too. (and did I mention he teleport bola me)

Really...please think about this...no SDI bonus if you have a pet!

Also making EOO work in PVP is great...but dexxers take extra damage from all other targets, why?

Do mages take extra damge for anything they do?

Yes I play a dexxer, nothing to hide here and with the Myst Mage things have been balanced IMHO alot of good fights but the apple timer and SDI will really swing thing one way...the mage way!

 

[Cetric]

curse explosion spellplauge magic arrow spell trigger go try it and have fun with it. then fix it causes its way op . with the exception of evasion spells never miss where a dexxor has a 50/50 shot of landing hits on a mage.

and dont mind paith we arent allowed to discuss how his guild is so good, on these boards due to TOS violations

exp 32 plague 23 magic spell plague dmg from exp - 13 magic arrow-11 trigger bobmard - 21

Hypothetical damages

32
23
12
11
21

=

99

heal pot will take 30 right off the top, so say 69.

The mystic mage needed to cast 3 spells without interrupt and waste his spell trigger. Going with no interupt is tricky, and if you got a bandage going you deflected half of that damage. You mentioned you play a bushido dexer... Just evade the combo if it hurts you so bad, if not evade, keep nailing your Feint ability until you hit them. Jam your confidence macro after the damage hits.

This combo will not scathe you.. and playing a mystic heck, its not even that good of a combo.

I also wanted to add, in the time it takes for a mage to get this combo off, you could potentially do

Nerve strike (43ish with a hit spell) Paralyzed and hit lower Defense effective
AI (43ish with a hit spell)
AI (43ish with a hit spell)

whats that, 129 damage in 3.75seconds? heal pot off the top..99 damage in 3.75 seconds and you didn't even have to stop to do it. Hell you could do it WHILE EVADING THROUGH HIS COMBO and having a bandage go.






And the dexer wants to cry....

 

[Shakkar]

Wow from our 15 ,to 40 percenct sdi. which only affects pvp situations. Pure necro, pure mag, pure weave pure tame all get a bonus to 40 for pvp only.all combos mages no pvp bonus. sounds well thought out. However the list may be edited concerns me. what will usually happen is say spellweave or tame will be taken from list at last minute. not tested thoughrly and released to prodo shards.please do not do this to us. after reading all the posts and have seen many valid points.This one stands out to me. chivalry has been used in pvm and pvp by many chars, as it currently stands some players still do not like this skill. so what is proposed is that chiv will be weakened and if you want to use what you already had you have to train the skill higher. With may I add no bonus other than to get what you already had.and these changes unlike the sdi changes, change this skill thru out the game for all no matter what ur killing.To just give us back what we enjoyed by having to have a higher skill is ...... not right. If there was to be a extra something in it for when someone was higher in skill other than to get back what they had taken, it may make it worth while for the player to consider earnestly these changes. however, as laid out currently I do see a problem with this chiv change.so can anyone tell me under the current proposed changes how much chiv exactly it will take to receive what we already had. is it 100 skill? 120 skill? I understand that jewels will be used to make this easier for those to comply. But, should game changes be made that require players to alter thier suits or jewels to acomplish any new guidelines?in response I would like to say no.In my oppinion, This is a major change to chiv, and tho it seems to be thoughtout, I can not refer to it as well thoughtout. please open chiv only thread and test this a long time. please, no quick dump on us. for this could make chiv more unwanted.In turn discouraging older and possibly newer players from uo.or at least from any chiv template. thank you.

 

[Shakkar]

Maybe Im wrong here but IF you survive the initial mana dump from one of these so called OP mage templates (SDI/EVAL/MAGE) wont that mage just be done. I mean that mage sullied their sdi cap if they had med or focus over 30?

eval med and focus are all support skills?

a pure mage is allowed 120 med. If they have over 30 focus/necro/ss/mystic/weaving/chiv, they do not get the SDI bonus.

Basically you are going to see sexy scribe wrestle mages on the field again. Along with a lot of other long and forgotten templates.

focus and spirit speak ar not on the list of skill sets so they can not affect ur not getting the bonus.

 

[Cetric]

Wow from our 15 ,to 40 percenct sdi. which only affects pvp situations. Pure necro, pure mag, pure weave pure tame all get a bonus to 40 for pvp only.all combos mages no pvp bonus. sounds well thought out. However the list may be edited concerns me. what will usually happen is say spellweave or tame will be taken from list at last minute. not tested thoughrly and released to prodo shards.please do not do this to us. after reading all the posts and have seen many valid points.This one stands out to me. chivalry has been used in pvm and pvp by many chars, as it currently stands some players still do not like this skill. so what is proposed is that chiv will be weakened and if you want to use what you already had you have to train the skill higher. With may I add no bonus other than to get what you already had.and these changes unlike the sdi changes, change this skill thru out the game for all no matter what ur killing.To just give us back what we enjoyed by having to have a higher skill is ...... not right. If there was to be a extra something in it for when someone was higher in skill other than to get back what they had taken, it may make it worth while for the player to consider earnestly these changes. however, as laid out currently I do see a problem with this chiv change.so can anyone tell me under the current proposed changes how much chiv exactly it will take to receive what we already had. is it 100 skill? 120 skill? I understand that jewels will be used to make this easier for those to comply. But, should game changes be made that require players to alter thier suits or jewels to acomplish any new guidelines?in response I would like to say no.In my oppinion, This is a major change to chiv, and tho it seems to be thoughtout, I can not refer to it as well thoughtout. please open chiv only thread and test this a long time. please, no quick dump on us. for this could make chiv more unwanted.In turn discouraging older and possibly newer players from uo.or at least from any chiv template. thank you.

Honestly... the chiv change is for the best. And actually, with 120 chiv you are doing more than you ever could do with chiv...soo... yea. thats about it.

The fact i ran a char with 55 chiv and it was as effective as it ever needed to be is a joke. How would you feel if Chiv was like necro, and you eneded high karma AND a support skill for usefulness like spiritspeak? Hmm? what say you then?

 

[Rooster^^]

+10 for the dev team on nerfing the apples to 45 seconds.

Maybe think of nerfing pots to 45 seconds aswell.

Also- you should remove Gheal from wands all together.

 

[Cetric]

focus and spirit speak ar not on the list of skill sets so they can not affect ur not getting the bonus.

In case you didn't see it.. all of the secondary skills are included, focus, eval, ss, imbuing, etc.

You can have one primary and one secondary such as

magery+eval

Necro+spiritspeak

Mysti+focus

but cannot do like

mage+eval+focus

 

[Delbrie]

Honestly... the chiv change is for the best. And actually, with 120 chiv you are doing more than you ever could do with chiv...soo... yea. thats about it.

The fact i ran a char with 55 chiv and it was as effective as it ever needed to be is a joke. How would you feel if Chiv was like necro, and you eneded high karma AND a support skill for usefulness like spiritspeak? Hmm? what say you then?

That is a horrible comparison. Chiv has to be paired with an offensive skill to get any benefit. Chiv is defensive while necro is offensive skill. What you are saying is equal to needing another skill on your template to make SS effective which makes Necro effective. In order to be effective, you have to have an offensive skill paired with chiv. And to really make best use of the benefits you throw bushido in your template. Thats 110+ skill points that are dedicated before you finish your other skills. So essentially it is already like necro.

 

[SunWolf]

Semmerset up there is from Japan and she is one of the smartest players I know of and actualy does test everything in this game. She is worried about Mysticism with archery or with anything at the 40% spell cap.

Ｍｉｎｔ/Ｓｅｍｍｅｒｓｅｔ 12:14 PM
strong comb have damage 80
if archer mystic and spell damage 40
i watch man ,
Ｍｉｎｔ/Ｓｅｍｍｅｒｓｅｔ 12:21 PM
hide stealth,archery or throwing,tactics.mystic.forcus and spell damage 40 !
Ｍｉｎｔ/Ｓｅｍｍｅｒｓｅｔ 12:19 PM
if its idea add,i think soon mystic or another change

Ｍｉｎｔ/Ｓｅｍｍｅｒｓｅｔ 12:20 PM
oh its strong! change! lol


Figure I throw that out there.

 

[Cetric]

That is a horrible comparison. Chiv has to be paired with an offensive skill to get any benefit. Chiv is defensive while necro is offensive skill. What you are saying is equal to needing another skill on your template to make SS effective which makes Necro effective. In order to be effective, you have to have an offensive skill paired with chiv. And to really make best use of the benefits you throw bushido in your template. Thats 110+ skill points that are dedicated before you finish your other skills. So essentially it is already like necro.

Really? chiv is purely defensive? lol What do you use chiv for in defense besides heal/cure/remove curse?

everything on their is pretty offensive to me, its all Buffs, where necro is curses to the opponent. Chiv is missing a few high damage spells but its buffs are pretty nice.

Chiv isn't only a skill that is paired with a weap skill, it is best used with a weap skill like necro is best paired with magery. But its not entirely necessary.

Think real hard back to when aos came out and necro and chiv were released. I don't think the intention was ever for people to only have 60ish chiv and utilize it more than anything but lightning strike.

 

[Cetric]

Semmerset up there is from Japan and she is one of the smartest players I know of and actualy does test everything in this game. She is worried about Mysticism with archery or with anything at the 40% spell cap.

Ｍｉｎｔ/Ｓｅｍｍｅｒｓｅｔ 12:14 PM
strong comb have damage 80
if archer mystic and spell damage 40
i watch man ,
Ｍｉｎｔ/Ｓｅｍｍｅｒｓｅｔ 12:21 PM
hide stealth,archery or throwing,tactics.mystic.forcus and spell damage 40 !
Ｍｉｎｔ/Ｓｅｍｍｅｒｓｅｔ 12:19 PM
if its idea add,i think soon mystic or another change

Ｍｉｎｔ/Ｓｅｍｍｅｒｓｅｔ 12:20 PM
oh its strong! change! lol


Figure I throw that out there.

Higher damage but honestly.. 40sdi is really hard to work into any of that. And if you have the mystic archer or whatever, you are going to need aids to heal, you will have a ahrd time hitting any lmc skill grouping, etc. High damage but you really sell yourself short in other areas. They won't be very well balanced templates.

don't get too worked up about hail storms and spell plagues and crap with 40sdi. You can't curse them or anything so the damage is reduced alot right off the bat.

 

[NuSair]

Double Strike with a Yumi/hit spell mystic w/ 40 SDI.....

Maybe I'll keep that last imbued Daimyo's Helm I have....

 

[NuSair]

I don't think the intention was ever for people to only have 60ish chiv and utilize it more than anything but lightning strike.

Ummm.... Lightning Strike is Bushido.

 

[NuSair]

Higher damage but honestly.. 40sdi is really hard to work into any of that. And if you have the mystic archer or whatever, you are going to need aids to heal, you will have a ahrd time hitting any lmc skill grouping, etc. High damage but you really sell yourself short in other areas. They won't be very well balanced templates.

LMC will be easy to hit....
As for SDI... I think it's going to be easier than you are considering....

Maybe if I actually can get in game today, I'll toss together a suit for it.

 

[NuSair]

Only one way to nerf sampire that is to change vamp form.

This pretty much. And even then.... people will just switch to a wammy.

 

[Zero Day]

I think the biggest impact of any of the chivalry changes is Consecrate.

And people are complaining because it is effectively the most powerful ability in game, and the LEAST required for skill investment.

Consecrate renders the introduction of different types of damage, and monsters with different resists or particular vulnerabilities completely obsolete.

I have a great weapon, unfortunately its only fire damage so it sucks vs dragons. Consecrate. Problem solved

I have a great weapon, unfortunately its only energy damage so it sucks vs Fey. Consecrate. Problem solved


Maybe change it so Consecrate scaled to progressively target the weakest resist.
So if a player has 60 chivalry, consecrate targets their 3rd weakest resist not their weakest.

Just a thought, but then that would make it absolutely required to be maxed.

I guess I'm happy with weakest resist every other hit. Whats the Scale?

 

[Cetric]

LMC will be easy to hit....
As for SDI... I think it's going to be easier than you are considering....

Maybe if I actually can get in game today, I'll toss together a suit for it.

i meant lmc skill cap, ie 300 skill in weap skills, parry, bushido etc.

Since bushido and ninja are out thats going to leave you weap skills, poison, parry, etc lol.

and its not easier. I have a tact mage and know how tight the suit is to get everything in it that is really required. That being said, i tried fitting in 40 sdi ever which way and only pulled it off once, but the suits other mods were heavily limited because of it.

Even a good pure mage suit with ep, dci, etc, is doable but not as easy as you think. Especially if u wanna fit some skill bonus or anything special.

but anywho

let me know if you build a suit thats

70/75/70/75/70 45hci 45+dci 40sdi 40lmc 20+hpi doable MR with a usable spell chan weap.


even if you pull it off... then go try it in a gargoyle's build lol.

 

[KoolAidAddict]

Ohh boy

More pvp changes that are once again hosing pvm.
Cant you differentiate???
The masses were crying out for PVP changes....you do know the styles are different, right?
The templates are too...........just sayin

 

[KoolAidAddict]

Developers, please apply this psuedo code to the upcoming changes:

If target = (Player or PlayerPet) then
damage = x
else
damage = y

Thanks.

One can hope!!

 

[HongKongCavalier]

So after messing around on TC1:

I don't really care about the Chivalry changes. It's been silly all along that someone could dump like 60 points into Chivalry and get nearly the full benefit, when 60 of anything else is almost worthless.

This is precisely my issue with the change to Chivalry in particular and many other skills in general.

It often seems to come down to GM/legendary or nothing on skills in general. And please, don't anyone take that literally. I'm aware you ultimately still have the choice of how high to take a skill. I just believe all skills should be as useful as chivalry was at the 60 to 70 mark, and progressivley more powerful if you choose to go GM and above.

To me, chivalry was ideal and other skills should be made to match: effective and completely viable at midrange, and less prone to failure the higher you go. Take it a step further and maybe add otherwise completely unavailable abilities at (or approaching) legendary; 9th spell circle, 3rd weapon special, etc.

I'll stand by what I said earlier: offer new benefits and incentive for people to take chivalry higher, rather than nerfing and disrupting a skill that was not really a PVP issue to begin with. If it was a PVM issue... well, orcs and goblins aren't paying customers!

Nerfing is generally a bad way to go. It's the equivalent of me being unhappy because my co-workers make more money than me, so to make me happy, the boss decides to give my co-workers a pay-cut. Now I can no longer complain about what others make, but the solution wasn't fair to my coworkers.

 

[Cetric]

*this much approad from a change that should have been there all along. a change that tinkers with consecrate weap (actually making it more powerful than before... just not at the same skill level) and enemy of one. I know i didn't use divine fury ever as it was too much of a liability anyways.

Cmon people really...

 

[ReaperNI]

cedric not sure where you getting math for it or not but i have dropped people on my mysticmage with that combo. try it you might learn something

 

[Cetric]

cedric not sure where you getting math for it or not but i have dropped people on my mysticmage with that combo. try it you might learn something

maybe people like you

no one even part way decent will die in that combo..... its just not enough damage, even if ur bombard trigger sets off another spell plague burst they'd have to not do any sort of heal, in any way, and have relatively low hit points.

Hop on Atl later, i'll show you.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

That is a horrible comparison. Chiv has to be paired with an offensive skill to get any benefit. Chiv is defensive while necro is offensive skill. What you are saying is equal to needing another skill on your template to make SS effective which makes Necro effective. In order to be effective, you have to have an offensive skill paired with chiv. And to really make best use of the benefits you throw bushido in your template. Thats 110+ skill points that are dedicated before you finish your other skills. So essentially it is already like necro.

You are trying to say that comparing chiv to necro you have to add ANOTHER skill to necro aside from the already needed SS? Necro needs at least 105 necro and at least 100 SS for those spells to be effective, chiv needs "60" I have a mage with 55 chiv and a tamer with 50 and they cast everything I need from that skill set with out ever failing and with full potency. My necro with 100 necro and 100 ss fails its top 4 spells and does not get the most out of its spells due to lack of damage for not having 120 ss.

Also to say Chiv is purely defensive is bs, I have a tamer that uses holy light to do damage. Purely holy light, it casts fast at 4/6 and with high karma actually does decent enough damage when you are spamming it.

Majority of Chiv spells are buffs, Majority of Necro spells are Curses. For any of the curses to work good I need 100 ss although 120 would be better, for any chiv spell to work I need maybe 60 Chiv. Those number don't even factor in that for the necro curses you also need enough necro to cast it. So please tell me again how chiv can not be a stand alone skill? Never mind how people use it most, the abilities are there.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

This is precisely my issue with the change to Chivalry in particular and many other skills in general.

It often seems to come down to GM/legendary or nothing on skills in general. And please, don't anyone take that literally. I'm aware you ultimately still have the choice of how high to take a skill. I just believe all skills should be as useful as chivalry was at the 60 to 70 mark, and progressivley more powerful if you choose to go GM and above.

To me, chivalry was ideal and other skills should be made to match: effective and completely viable at midrange, and less prone to failure the higher you go. Take it a step further and maybe add otherwise completely unavailable abilities at (or approaching) legendary; 9th spell circle, 3rd weapon special, etc.

I'll stand by what I said earlier: offer new benefits and incentive for people to take chivalry higher, rather than nerfing and disrupting a skill that was not really a PVP issue to begin with. If it was a PVM issue... well, orcs and goblins aren't paying customers!

Nerfing is generally a bad way to go. It's the equivalent of me being unhappy because my co-workers make more money than me, so to make me happy, the boss decides to give my co-workers a pay-cut. Now I can no longer complain about what others make, but the solution wasn't fair to my coworkers.

This change actually brings it so that Chiv is viable at a lower level and progressively gets better. All casting skills are viable to use at most low levels, if you are really a tactician and decide how to use those few spells available to you, but no skill should ever have been as powerful as chivalry was at less than half the maximum skill level possible.

 

[Picus at the office]

I think the biggest impact of any of the chivalry changes is Consecrate.

And people are complaining because it is effectively the most powerful ability in game, and the LEAST required for skill investment.

Consecrate renders the introduction of different types of damage, and monsters with different resists or particular vulnerabilities completely obsolete.

I have a great weapon, unfortunately its only fire damage so it sucks vs dragons. Consecrate. Problem solved

I have a great weapon, unfortunately its only energy damage so it sucks vs Fey. Consecrate. Problem solved


Maybe change it so Consecrate scaled to progressively target the weakest resist.
So if a player has 60 chivalry, consecrate targets their 3rd weakest resist not their weakest.

Just a thought, but then that would make it absolutely required to be maxed.

I guess I'm happy with weakest resist every other hit. Whats the Scale?

Burn dull hammers and make a collection of weapons for your sampire. In the warrior forum I posted the average resist for champ spawns that one might want to review plus looking up stuff on uoguide or stratics main page is a good idea also. The only thing this will do to my current build is mess up my EOO, but honor clears that up anyways.

 

[Saint of Killers]

Burn dull hammers and make a collection of weapons for your sampire. In the warrior forum I posted the average resist for champ spawns that one might want to review plus looking up stuff on uoguide or stratics main page is a good idea also. The only thing this will do to my current build is mess up my EOO, but honor clears that up anyways.

That's a lot of work for the average sampy that's whining in this thread Picus. If it's too hard to change a couple jewels in their suit to make due, then how will they get elemental weps for each critter type?

Obviously the less lazy pvmers will make the weps (like myself who already did it a month ago when I made my sampy because I'm extraordinary), but the common sampy will spam whines here hoping the devs don't mess with chiv.

THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING!

 

[georgemarvin2001]

After only 8 years, they're actually giving us a reason to take Chivalry to Legendary? FANTASTIC.
IF we didn't already have such cramped warrior templates.
A mage can actually compete in PvP with magery, med, EI, resist. They can put the other 240 skill points into a wide array of skills. On the other hand, a 6x Legendary pure warrior doesn't stand a chance against even a mediocre pure mage. A warrior needs a weapon skill, anatomy, tactics, chivalry, resist, healing, bushido and necromancy just to stay alive. 8 x 120 = 940 skill points, so he has to leave several skills out of the mix as it is, hence the prevalence of sampires.
How about a similar boost for pure warriors, who don't use chivalry, bushido and Necro?

Using EoO in PvP will be good.

The apple timer should be like 20 seconds.

No changes to Mortal Strike?

 

[Picus at the office]

That's a lot of work for the average sampy that's whining in this thread Picus. If it's too hard to change a couple jewels in their suit to make due, then how will they get elemental weps for each critter type?

Obviously the less lazy pvmers will make the weps (like myself who already did it a month ago when I made my sampy because I'm extraordinary), but the common sampy will spam whines here hoping the devs don't mess with chiv.

THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING!

Really all you need is 1 wirlwind weapon with 70+ cold damage imbued with reptile slayer and hit cold area(stam, mana and damage), 1 70+ fire damage with SSI, Hit fire area(stam etc), 1 with 70+ cold damage imbued with demon slayer and hit cold area(stam, mana and damage) and one last like the fire but all cold for the rat spawn(though you might want to make a SC-1 hit area to avoid slime damage.) These will allow you to do any champ in the game worth doing.

Daily I burn 2-4 hammers when my crew has ruined gate fighting just to see if I can improve what I have or give something away(I come first). 70% of my guild has similar weapons to mine though most only bothering with one or two and they/I never have to worry about cons weapon.

Game solved for those who didn't want to win. This information is what set some above the rest.

 

[Etheral B]

I don't see the reason why devs would feel the need to nerf or even touch sampires/chivalry. No one complains about chivalry, people hardly even use it. Pointless change that will insight alot of negitive feedback. Half the game, ( all like 100 people that play) Have sampires and use chivalry and their way too fight the spawn/champs. Once again, a pointless and poor choice.

 

[Delbrie]

You are trying to say that comparing chiv to necro you have to add ANOTHER skill to necro aside from the already needed SS? Necro needs at least 105 necro and at least 100 SS for those spells to be effective, chiv needs "60" I have a mage with 55 chiv and a tamer with 50 and they cast everything I need from that skill set with out ever failing and with full potency. My necro with 100 necro and 100 ss fails its top 4 spells and does not get the most out of its spells due to lack of damage for not having 120 ss.

Also to say Chiv is purely defensive is bs, I have a tamer that uses holy light to do damage. Purely holy light, it casts fast at 4/6 and with high karma actually does decent enough damage when you are spamming it.

Majority of Chiv spells are buffs, Majority of Necro spells are Curses. For any of the curses to work good I need 100 ss although 120 would be better, for any chiv spell to work I need maybe 60 Chiv. Those number don't even factor in that for the necro curses you also need enough necro to cast it. So please tell me again how chiv can not be a stand alone skill? Never mind how people use it most, the abilities are there.

Wow casting holy light with a tamer that has 50 chiv is pretty good, seeing that the min skill is 55. I have a hard enough time not failing holylight at 65 chiv. HL is good for the first levels of champ spawns but not much past that. Go to the abyss and work up one of the demon spaws using just HL on a char and let me know how it goes.

 

[PaithanTheElf]

After only 8 years, they're actually giving us a reason to take Chivalry to Legendary? FANTASTIC.
IF we didn't already have such cramped warrior templates.
A mage can actually compete in PvP with magery, med, EI, resist. They can put the other 240 skill points into a wide array of skills. On the other hand, a 6x Legendary pure warrior doesn't stand a chance against even a mediocre pure mage. A warrior needs a weapon skill, anatomy, tactics, chivalry, resist, healing, bushido and necromancy just to stay alive. 8 x 120 = 940 skill points, so he has to leave several skills out of the mix as it is, hence the prevalence of sampires.
How about a similar boost for pure warriors, who don't use chivalry, bushido and Necro?

Using EoO in PvP will be good.

The apple timer should be like 20 seconds.

No changes to Mortal Strike?

A warrior can have much less than that and be very effective. Apple timers at 20 seconds will not change anything. People will still apple off any curses and run away for 20 seconds instead of 15. At 45, you can actually re-debuff them. It makes playing a necro an option again. 50 skill points of chiv can easily negate 240 of a necro currently. That is ridiculously unfair.

Also saying you *need* chivalary and necro at 120 on a *pure* warrior is an out of control statement.

 

[PaithanTheElf]

Wow casting holy light with a tamer that has 50 chiv is pretty good, seeing that the min skill is 55. I have a hard enough time not failing holylight at 65 chiv. HL is good for the first levels of champ spawns but not much past that. Go to the abyss and work up one of the demon spaws using just HL on a char and let me know how it goes.

He said when you can cast holy light at 4/6- it is not a defensive spell. He also said he casts everything he NEEDS at 50-55 skill. On the template he was referring to, he obviously does not use holy light, but just about every other chiv spell out there.

 

[virem]

I don't see how the focus mage stuff matters at all. You can't really make any effective characters without magery. You could make a focused mage... but it would be pretty impossible to make a focused mystic, necro, ninja, or bushido character without actually having magery as well. Also what would be the purpose of having a focused tamer or ninja without having some sort of mage skill the SDI bonus would matter?

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Wow casting holy light with a tamer that has 50 chiv is pretty good, seeing that the min skill is 55. I have a hard enough time not failing holylight at 65 chiv. HL is good for the first levels of champ spawns but not much past that. Go to the abyss and work up one of the demon spaws using just HL on a char and let me know how it goes.

I find it amusing you assume I meant the same tamer even though I said "I have a tamer with 55 chiv" and then went on to say "I have a tamer who uses only holy light as an offense" Where exactly did you pull they were the same character? Tamer number two is used solely for pvp/champing so....yea, and my only means of offense is my two pets and Chivalry.

I used different characters for different examples in your argument, Mine is that my mage and tamer with under 60 chivalry use that spell set flawlessly with in the context of their templates, my other tamer uses it just as flawlessly albeit he has higher chivalry and can cast all of the spells almost with out fail when I equip him with +15 in the skill. The skill has a lot of power with little to nothing invested in it, proportionally speaking you found this to be perfect.

Inability or lack of willingness to adapt does not make a change innately bad. (Of course not giving a reason for a change aside from the various speculations that the players make is bad, but hey that was not your question or statement or argument.)

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

I don't see how the focus mage stuff matters at all. You can't really make any effective characters without magery. You could make a focused mage... but it would be pretty impossible to make a focused mystic, necro, ninja, or bushido character without actually having magery as well. Also what would be the purpose of having a focused tamer or ninja without having some sort of mage skill the SDI bonus would matter?

Focused mystic should not be that hard, it has a means to heal and offensive. Necro is a little more tricky, although I did use to have a combat necro so if you short yourself on something else you might be able to get higher than 15 sdi....most likely not 40 though, unless you forgo HCI which makes having a weapon useless...Or I am not thinking of something else here.

 

[virem]

Focused mystic should not be that hard, it has a means to heal and offensive.

... Try using just cleansing to stay alive.

It will be a bunch of poison pure mages, or scribe pure mages. Those would be the only focused characters. A focused poisoning ninja maybe? but again, I don't see the point if SDI is the only benefit of focusing. I also don't think the game needs 30 dmg lightnings.. and 55 dmg flamestrikes.

 

[Cetric]

I don't see how the focus mage stuff matters at all. You can't really make any effective characters without magery. You could make a focused mage... but it would be pretty impossible to make a focused mystic, necro, ninja, or bushido character without actually having magery as well. Also what would be the purpose of having a focused tamer or ninja without having some sort of mage skill the SDI bonus would matter?

LOL..

focused mystic would be hybrid mystic dexers, same with necro

there is no such thing as a hybrid ninja or bushido char, they are just meant to effect the otucome of focused other stuff.

For instance, you couldnt make a bushido dexer mystic focused, because mystic/focus/bushido together.

Get it?






This stuff is going to offer huge huge template diversity.


i love it.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

... Try using just cleansing to stay alive.

It will be a bunch of poison pure mages, or scribe pure mages. Those would be the only focused characters. A focused poisoning ninja maybe? but again, I don't see the point if SDI is the only benefit of focusing. I also don't think the game needs 30 dmg lightnings.. and 55 dmg flamestrikes.

I have a necro/mystic with no magery....Healing stone/pots/cleansing are my main ways to heal, granted ss is very helpful, but Could most likely manage with just mystic. On the other hand on shards that have actual populations, having a varied group of templates can play a greater role than it has in a long time. I know all about the small pop shards having more trouble with this.

 

[virem]

A hybrid mystic or necro dexxer? I said effective characters. They wouldn't have enough combat skills to get lower mana cost bonus' on special moves, they wouldnt be able to have bush or ninja in order to lower the mana costs of their special moves because it would break the focus abilities. Go try to fit HCI DCI FC FCR and 40 SDI onto a suit.

 

[ReaperNI]

i see what they want to do here. they want to give people the option to play pure chars. necro pure and mage pure are the easiest esp cause necro dont need spell channeling. but this raises a intresting question with no magery on a casting type player your not going to be able to use your mage weps hmm. i still think a major major buff to resisting spells would stop my crying about the new intended changes

 

[RL'S pker]

i see what they want to do here. they want to give people the option to play pure chars. necro pure and mage pure are the easiest esp cause necro dont need spell channeling. but this raises a intresting question with no magery on a casting type player your not going to be able to use your mage weps hmm. i still think a major major buff to resisting spells would stop my crying about the new intended changes

I think if they nerfed the amount cleansing wind heals too...that alone would stop a lot of the crying people seem to be doing.

Each class IMO would be semi balanced. I'm hoping to have the time tonight and really start testing things out.

 

[KoolAidAddict]

Burn dull hammers and make a collection of weapons for your sampire.

Then why mess with the skill at all, if the proposed changes are so easily defeated? To give the crafters a reason to do bods?

The only thing this will do to my current build is mess up my EOO, but honor clears that up anyways.

Yup....for one of the "group" it does, but if theres more than one in your party, now whut? Your gonna rely on being the only one ever to get honor so you wont need 120 chiv?
I hope this change gets more rethinking.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Then why mess with the skill at all, if the proposed changes are so easily defeated? To give the crafters a reason to do bods?


Yup....for one of the "group" it does, but if theres more than one in your party, now whut? Your gonna rely on being the only one ever to get honor so you wont need 120 chiv?
I hope this change gets more rethinking.

Aside from the only obvious answer I can see here (killing something faster) why does everyone in your group need to have Honor/EoO damage cap for your group to be successful?

 

[KoolAidAddict]

That's a lot of work for the average sampy that's whining in this thread Picus. If it's too hard to change a couple jewels in their suit to make due, then how will they get elemental weps for each critter type?

Obviously the less lazy pvmers will make the weps (like myself who already did it a month ago when I made my sampy because I'm extraordinary), but the common sampy will spam whines here hoping the devs don't mess with chiv.

THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING!

hehe.
Whats the point?
Chiv was never the main pvp issue I ever read about.
Certainly not enough to warrant this proposal, dang.
And your point is.....who cares cause its an easy work around?
Then why even?
What exactly will this accomplish then?
I mean, if its this easily worked around, whos EVER gonna 120 it?
And why does it need this pvm nerf to help "balance" pvp?
What am I missing here??????

 

[KoolAidAddict]

Aside from the only obvious answer I can see here (killing something faster) why does everyone in your group need to have Honor/EoO damage cap for your group to be successful?

My group?
Ease up on the assumptions there.
My group could and often does consist of many folks I just grab thru chat to do say a medusa, or whatever.
Do I want to get looting rights, ya think?
And with no max damage cap from EOO, yet you got it from the ONLY honor available, who gets top spot every time?
Thought this was to assist with "balance", no?

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

My group?
Ease up on the assumptions there.
My group could and often does consist of many folks I just grab thru chat to do say a medusa, or whatever.
Do I want to get looting rights, ya think?
And with no max damage cap from EOO, yet you got it from the ONLY honor available, who gets top spot every time?
Thought this was to assist with "balance", no?

I did not make an assumption "Your" does not have to be specific to you, would you rather me have said "why does my group"? I can understand a little better with your example of playing with strangers I take it? But other than that I would assume a group of people can figure out how to share nicely.

 

[Shelleybean]

What I resent the most about the chivalry changes is that the developers nerfed some of the more important spells and then made it so more skill points are required so we can be less effective than we were before. If they had simply raised the skill point investment, I'd probably be ok with it.
Then with the petals, apples and lightning strike nerf, it's like they said "hey, what else can we do to make sure nothing stronger than an ogre lord can be soloed." Yet very little has been done to advertise UO and try to bring in more players. Players are soloing stuff sometimes because they want to, but for some, it's because it's hard to find other players to group with.
I loved it when Doom was packed and every night after work I could do a few rounds and there were always people there. I prefer it that way, but the game is not like that anymore.
Please stop punishing the few of us that are left.