[Feedback] Combat Game Balance

[ReaperNI]

btw good luck training chiv to 120. lmao the only way to do it is through sots or using a trick in game there is NO way to traing chiv past what is it 115? (not sure)

 

[unified]

Seems to me they are trying to bring back the multiplayer aspect of our MMORPG. We shouldn't be able to hop on a sampire and solo 98% of the pvm content.

This statement would have made sense when the shards were well populated. These days, you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone to go hunting with in PvM. And let us not forget that, in PvM, you have some creatures who poison you every few seconds. Now, if the changes go through, when you are poisoned you are pratically dead.

But, fear not. More changes will come to be in just a few months since the smartest PvP will be like me and adjust their templates so that those sorry losers who wanted these changes will come here begging for more nerfs.

 

[unified]

Why consistently nerf PvM in the guise of PvP changes? PvM has nothing to do with PvP, its high time the Devs learned this - and learned to code them separately.

Developers, please apply this psuedo code to the upcoming changes:

If target = (Player or PlayerPet) then
damage = x
else
damage = y

Thanks.

 

[NuSair]

Here is how bad the chiv change was needed.

I bought 15 120 chiv scrolls for 750k

FIFTEEN!

Yea in a week or so Im gona sell em for millions (maybe)but still That is one useless scroll!

I agree that a change in Chiv was needed, but instead of this, they could have done something a little more inventive.... like adding more top end spells.

 

[RL'S pker]

dont dare make these changes your killing super nerfed dexxors even more.

1) if you nerf apples make sure you put that same nerf on cleansing winds.(im sure youve never pvped against a mystic mage in protection/spaming winds)

2) you buffed the worst warrior specials in the game . and nerfed lighting strike

3)nerfed chivalry killing a 4/6 chiv warrior template

4)id love to watch you withstand a scribe mage with 50 sdi dump a combo (curse explosion flamestirke ebolt ) what will that hit for 300 dmg?

5)nerfed potions. take a mage vs a warrior without potions warrior runing 140 dex can cure a poison in 4 secs a mage at 2/6 can cure it in what under 1 sec?

6)why dont we just delete resisting spells completely?hard enough to make a dexxor compete with these super mages and resisting spells has been reduced to what reducing some time on curses and resisting poison/para what 50% of the time? it useless (be better if it reduce spell damage like it used to)

old uo is dead warriors no longer need no mana at all. we need specials to get the upper hand on mages and constantly the specials we have are getting nerfed (deathstrikes on archers/throwers) the ninja book is a joke what is there 3 useful spells? mortal reduce to completely useless all the other ones easy enough for a half decent mage to mini heal through till the warrior runs out of mana.

i dont know bout you but this " fix " seems very one sided and i wouldnt surpised if you killed off the dexxor template comletely

Reaper

Currently on a dexxer you can easily pop out 4 AI's and do over 100dmg rocking people. Dexxer can heal on the run, and half of them can evade a mages first dump, and then apple/pot their way up through the second dump.

Dexxer have it way to easy currently. Lets not even get started on the nerve/DS dexxers...

I'm personaly in love with the 45s apple timer. I'm also in favor of raising the sdi cap. I'm still undesided on the 40% raise....but i need to do some more testing with it.

Chad is correct though. There needs to be something done about Mortal spamming. 45 seconds on apples while fighting mortal spammers will be rough.

Six is also correct in saying something needs to be done about plague, sleep, and cleansing wind. Cleansing wind is just way OP. Lower the amount it heals and it should be fine. Put a 10 second or so timer on plague, and maybe a 10 second timer on sleep too.

GREAT start devs. Come on players actually log on test shard and test the changes. I have been. Trust me it's nice to see certain templates able to compete again.

 

[Zero Day]

Looks like Game Balance in 2 sections.
Game Balance and Game Balance PvP.

Chiv was long due for adjustment. Until I see numbers though I don't know how good or bad it is.

But if 50 Chiv only gets Consecrate to hit 50% of the time thats still every other hit.
Kind of funny that JOAT Chiv got you the best ability for all of the skill.

Looking forward to seeing how some of my templates fare and if I can actually have a viable character with healing.

Gonna see how these new specials fare/

 

[unified]

while i realise the importance of PvP balance, why does it always got to have a major negative impact on pvm also?

Does it really matter? PvM is already ridiculously easy and presents few real challenges, especially on normal shards. Surely you can accommodate the odd nerf here and there.

For some people, PvM is easy. But, not everyone can afford the best suits and solo everything in the game. At best, there are some who can only manage entry levels of the classic dungeons. I used to do well when the shards were more populated and you could always find others fighting in dungeons. Now, even Doom is a ghost town. I can't fight those monsters on my own. I'm not looking to solo everything either, but I want a fighting chance.

There are few things in this game that I can certainly do better than others. After adjusting to the T-Map changes, I can find the chests in one attempt in a few seconds. This makes it easy for me, but I will never decry the inabilities of others who can't.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

For some people, PvM is easy. But, not everyone can afford the best suits and solo everything in the game. At best, there are some who can only manage entry levels of the classic dungeons. I used to do well when the shards were more populated and you could always find others fighting in dungeons. Now, even Doom is a ghost town. I can't fight those monsters on my own. I'm not looking to solo everything either, but I want a fighting chance.

There are few things in this game that I can certainly do better than others. After adjusting to the T-Map changes, I can find the chests in one attempt in a few seconds. This makes it easy for me, but I will never decry the inabilities of others who can't.

But at the same time there were Solo templates before SE, before bushido so how about they remove Bushido from their template, up chiv and there you go. I can in fact handle most critters on a character with only parry and chiv (ala no Bushido) Granted my chiv is only like 95? Granted the proposed changes make anything that blood oaths constantly or mortals constantly will be a pain.

 

[Cetric]

exactly.

hey mystics, necros you own uo.

have a nice day.

if things stay as originally thought up, a pure mage with the damage bonus will be just fine, necros will make a gigantic comeback, and mysticism will be sort of a balance inbetween, power and good curse types. A decent pure mage can actually handle a mystic, give them more power, and they are about even with one.

 

[HongKongCavalier]

Other than some of the valid PVP tweaks, did I miss something? Have Peerless bosses been posting complaints about chivalry? Who are the devs trying to please with these changes?

Just a general suggestion, but the devs ought to figure out a way to make skills more worthwhile and desirable by adding to them and giving players incentive to invest more points in them, rather than just diminishing the existing abilities of the skill at lower levels.

This would allow players to keep their templates as they are if that's where they are comfortable (and enjoying the game), but also present them an option to adjust their template if they see a new benefit.

Nerfing is almost always the easy and lazy way of doing things, but in this case, it almost seems spiteful. I don't see how chivalry was disrupting anyone's enjoyment of the game.

Having said that, now would be a good time for the devs to rush out a "+20 Chivalry Skill Earrings Booster"

 

[ReaperNI]

mages are op to the max. i let any good pvper say different. nothing like getting insta stated by a mystic mage curse explosion spellplague hail storm trigger or something of that manner. on more then one ocassion i have been at the bad end of this nasty combo only to be dropped within 2-3 seconds.

not sure if my bush dexxor is glitched or something but my evade doesnt work for anything and i only get a critcal strike maybe once every 20 shots

and i know this is stratics so we will just say some of the so called "better pvpers" have "better connections (wink wink) " which makes it almost impossible for us dexxors to see someone all the way through till they are dead.

 

[Shelleybean]

Other than some of the valid PVP tweaks, did I miss something? Have Peerless bosses been posting complaints about chivalry? Who are the devs trying to please with these changes?

Just a general suggestion, but the devs ought to figure out a way to make skills more worthwhile and desirable by adding to them and giving players incentive to invest more points in them, rather than just diminishing the existing abilities of the skill at lower levels.

This would allow players to keep their templates as they are if that's where they are comfortable (and enjoying the game), but also present them an option to adjust their template if they see a new benefit.

Nerfing is almost always the easy and lazy way of doing things, but in this case, it almost seems spiteful. I don't see how chivalry was disrupting anyone's enjoyment of the game.

Having said that, now would be a good time for the devs to rush out a "+20 Chivalry Skill Earrings Booster"

Very well stated.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Other than some of the valid PVP tweaks, did I miss something? Have Peerless bosses been posting complaints about chivalry? Who are the devs trying to please with these changes?

Just a general suggestion, but the devs ought to figure out a way to make skills more worthwhile and desirable by adding to them and giving players incentive to invest more points in them, rather than just diminishing the existing abilities of the skill at lower levels.

This would allow players to keep their templates as they are if that's where they are comfortable (and enjoying the game), but also present them an option to adjust their template if they see a new benefit.

Nerfing is almost always the easy and lazy way of doing things, but in this case, it almost seems spiteful. I don't see how chivalry was disrupting anyone's enjoyment of the game.

Having said that, now would be a good time for the devs to rush out a "+20 Chivalry Skill Earrings Booster"

It does not matter which road they take, since in the "balance" of things they would have to add new spells to the higher tier and then add monsters to counter those abilities, thus forcing you to have that amount anyway. That is what Balance is, it is not only about pvp (Not that I know why they submitted the current changes but still.)

mages are op to the max. i let any good pvper say different. nothing like getting insta stated by a mystic mage curse explosion spellplague hail storm trigger or something of that manner. on more then one ocassion i have been at the bad end of this nasty combo only to be dropped within 2-3 seconds.

not sure if my bush dexxor is glitched or something but my evade doesnt work for anything and i only get a critcal strike maybe once every 20 shots

and i know this is stratics so we will just say some of the so called "better pvpers" have "better connections (wink wink) " which makes it almost impossible for us dexxors to see someone all the way through till they are dead.

Takes more than 2-3 seconds to just cast 2 of those spells let alone all 4-5. I say that on equal terms each player has the same ability to stay alive as the next.

 

[Lord X]

Currently on a dexxer you can easily pop out 4 AI's and do over 100dmg rocking people. Dexxer can heal on the run, and half of them can evade a mages first dump, and then apple/pot their way up through the second dump.

Dexxer have it way to easy currently. Lets not even get started on the nerve/DS dexxers...

Yeah 4 AI's would be pretty ruff in a row. You neglected to say how rare that was though.
With mage weps and DCI it can be a challenge to land even two hits in a row.

 

[Gheed]

@all chiv changes:

First wish:
Please don't

But if you have to::

"CHIVALRY
The way chivalry and abilities work has been revised so that the effects, and durations now place more emphasis on skill level rather than just karma. In cases where Karma is evaluated, it will provide a modifier to the chivalry skill factor. This means that chivalry will provide a baseline for the power or duration of the effect and karma will either increase or decrease that baseline. In order to achieve the highest possible levels, both skill and karma will be required."

Well I guess it has been coming for a long time. I does follow the cycle of overpowering a new skill then nerfing it once you have enough people sold on it. Still, it always annoyed me that the same companies producing radar guns for police cruisers also make radar detectors.

But are you going to follow suit here? Will you stop making mobs with 30k hit points for a chance to drop one item in a 10 item quest? Sure it is a "team play" sort of thing. But 2 or 3 or 4 players working together require 2 or 3 or 4 times as many drops yes?


"Divine Fury:
Bonus effects and stamina regeneration from divine fury now scale based on chivalry skill and karma. Stamina regeneration from divine fury is no longer a full refreshment, but rather a set amount of stamina."

Funny thing, this has nothing to do with stamina, just need more mana to spam divine fury to 100% regen. I tried a stamina regen suit once while I was experimenting with ways to avoid using DF. I got it up to around 18 or so w/gm focus and was not impressed. It was much easier to imbue stamina leech on my weapon. It saved me a hell of alot of seeds. Over all the change is kind of pointless to me.

"Cleanse By Fire:
Cure chance for poison has been updated."

TMI! Though I am assuming it is "less" of a chance. Again no big impact (for me), I normally use a chiv/necro w/curse weapon in wraith, which heals through poison. For those new fangled "drained life force harms you" beasties, well just stone off SS for healing and xheal with a friend.

"Enemy of One
Enemy of one has now been changed to a Spell Toggle. You can remove the effect before the duration expires by recasting the spell. (Recasting while the spell is in effect will cost 0 mana and 0 cast time)
The Damage bonus will now Scale based on Chivalry Skill. Duration Will Scale with Chivalry and Karma"

Well Now you hit close to home! Ya this blows, But I'm over my damage cap most of the time as it is anyway so most likely the nerf wont affect me much. I do love the bard changes and this may give me a little more use in dual boxing my bard's provocation mastery.

Out of curiosity regarding the spells negative impacts:

Caster's melee damage increases 50% towards a single monster type but caster will take double damage from all other monsters.

will the damage from other monsters be reduced according to skill as well?

"(PvP)
Enemy of One will now work against Players and Pets. The damage increase cap will be significantly reduced and apply ONLY to the player or Pet being attacked. Damage received from all other sources will be increased by 30% while this ability is in effect versus a player or pet. Duration is capped at 8 seconds for PvP.
Remove Curse
The difficulty of successfully removing curses now scales with the level and number of curses in effect in addition to factoring chivalry skill and karma."

ok

"Consecrate Weapon
Consecrate Weapon no longer guarantees damage against a target’s weakest resist. Concecrate weapon now provides a scaling chance to do damage against the targets weakest resist type. At 90+ Chivalry, consecrate weapon will also offer a damage increase in addition to optimal damage type."

You know I never liked using this spell anyway. There is no buff icon for it and when 2 or 3 folks are spamming it in a big fight, it gets confusing as to who's CW wore. It is funny to see everybody casting it at once when one wears. For laughs sometimes I cast mine off cycle from everyone else just to see who casts it again.

No I go the long tedious path and cross my fingers for an exceptionally crafted 100% element weapon that happened to roll other mods useful to me, then finish it off with imbuing. But do you have any idea what a pain this is? How about making use of the Essence of Persistence toward imbuing 100% element damage on weapons? The name seems to fit and it would cost you an imbuing slot plus intensity.

Though the changes look scary, most are easily avoided on some templates. For the most part they just seem to require more mana to spam. As for a melee build, wraith form with a good stamina and\or mana leech weapon will get you through most of this. My point is why bother changing it? It can be worked around by folks who know better and you will spend a lot more of our time and yours trying to explain it to folks who don't.

It is easier to destroy than to create. I guess this follows true here as well. But could you guys consider all new spell casting classes only get 8 spells anyway? Some of those are further divided by a template that compliments either a mage or melee build. In other words half useless. Why not require more skill through introducing more spells/abilities?

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Yeah 4 AI's would be pretty ruff in a row. You neglected to say how rare that was though.
With mage weps and DCI it can be a challenge to land even two hits in a row.

Should be 50/50. And swinging fast enough to out damage mini heals and enough to interrupt a mage standing still casting anything higher, should be enough to be 50/50. Won't argue the rng issues that most if not all people encounter. (None of this negates what you stated as 2 hits in a row should be fairly rare given a 50% chance to hit each swing, and more hits in a row even rarer still.)

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Random thoughts.

Mixed feelings overall.

Weird, the emphasis on Chivalry. Not many cries for a Chivalry nerf. At most you had people arguing skill level should count more than it did but, honestly, it counted more than people realized.

Are the PvM worries really about PvM per se, or about sampires? If the latter, I think it's a tad sad how much that one class has become synonymous with PvM. There is more than one PvM template, and, indeed, more than one warrior template! Or, at least, there should be.

Based on the sampling of previous comments I have read, the bandage boost is being under-rated. Both in and of itself, and in its ability to bring back pure (or more-pure) warriors. And, if not pure warriors, then at least warriors with only Chiv or only Bushido and not both.

One excellent reason to keep the high apple timer: It is a back door boost to resist spells, in both PvP and PvM. Given the long history Resist Spells has in this game, and the shameful way it has been treated over the years (still useful to be sure but nowhere near as it once was), that alone may be good reason to have it.

Sampires have survived at least 2 or 3 nerfs now. I expect them to survive this one as well. The changes do nothing to address the basic strengths of the class. I don't think they were intended to. Being made to work a little harder isn't really a nerf.

Whether I agree with them or not, it is an excellent sign for the game that these things are being worked on.

Here ends the random thoughts.

-Galen's player

 

[ReaperNI]

how fair is it for a dexxor (lets say 4 year yet) with 720 skill points to fight a mage with 840 points ???? that gives them what them what mages had to either invest points in parry or what that skill made almost primarily for mages oh that it wrestling to defend against dexxors now has been given for free(and now thought to be a right?) . if i imbue mage wep on my bokuto can my bush dexxor start laying down flamestrikes?

 

[RL'S pker]

how fair is it for a dexxor (lets say 4 year yet) with 720 skill points to fight a mage with 840 points ???? that gives them what them what mages had to either invest points in parry or what that skill made almost primarily for mages oh that it wrestling to defend against dexxors now has been given for free(and now thought to be a right?) . if i imbue mage wep on my bokuto can my bush dexxor start laying down flamestrikes?

lol reaper you just still havn't learned to play your dexxer beast mode style yet! newbie

when they fix the para blow bug on test center log on and test it all out. ya might find a chiv type dexxer to be rather fun. enemy of one...change target with it on the run 0 mana cost. concentrate wep+ dp+holly light....

 

[ReaperNI]

Random thoughts.

One excellent reason to keep the high apple timer: It is a back door boost to resist spells, in both PvP and PvM. Given the long history Resist Spells has in this game, and the shameful way it has been treated over the years (still useful to be sure but nowhere near as it once was), that alone may be good reason to have it.

-Galen's player

yes i would rock resisting spell in all it glory of 120 skill points if it had any bearing on more then two spells in game poison and para. and para is only half effective due to trap boxes.

but the fact is they are not planing to make any changes to resisting spells. how bout this for the skill resisting spells make it actully able to resist spells hmm that sounds dumb. dont give me you resist sleep (shh dont mention that mass sleep doesnt work ). i want it to actully work with all spells curse/ strangle/ any of the cureses and lower the amount of dmg that dmg ing spells do example this 100 point flamestrike that they propouse with this 50 %sdi my scribe mage does what a 45dmg flamestike with only 25% ouch you wanna double that? come on

reaper

 

[Nexus]

These proposed changes are being put up well in advance of Publishing them to all production shards. We do look forward to your opinions and feedback.

Thanks everyone

Mesanna and Logrus

I can give you my opinion and feedback just from reading over the proposed change list.

They suck.

I haven't figured out why you guys haven't realised that balancing in PvP is impossible, nor have implemented a system to separate changes targeted at PvP, so they don't bleed over and effect PvM negatively. Every time you try to please one group you wind up angering the other.

The reason I say PvP balance is impossible is because UO is a sandbox, we aren't locked into any set of skills. Every time a change is made it simply shifts the balance towards one combination or another. Unless you lock people into a specific "set" of skills like pretty much every other MMO does you will not be able to balance things you'll always be a step behind because you do not have control of people character builds, UO simply isn't established as it is now to work that way.

As to separating PvP and PvM, honestly, how can the changes you've put in "Enhance" PvM at all? PvP and PvM are two seperate Systems, quit treating them as the same.

 

[ReaperNI]

lol reaper you just still havn't learned to play your dexxer beast mode style yet! newbie

*puts on scottish accent* ill crush you like a worm. lol

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

yes i would rock resisting spell in all it glory of 120 skill points if it had any bearing on more then two spells in game poison and para. and para is only half effective due to trap boxes.

but the fact is they are not planing to make any changes to resisting spells. how bout this for the skill resisting spells make it actully able to resist spells hmm that sounds dumb. dont give me you resist sleep (shh dont mention that mass sleep doesnt work ). i want it to actully work with all spells curse/ strangle/ any of the cureses and lower the amount of dmg that dmg ing spells do example this 100 point flamestrike that they propouse with this 50 %sdi my scribe mage does what a 45dmg flamestike with only 25% ouch you wanna double that? come on

reaper

It wouldn't double the damage....percentages do not work as multipliers.

The resist spells argument, it currently basically works against all curses and negative type non-damaging spells (unless you count spell plague in which case it works against a damaging type spell) I am not sure the effectiveness of it needs to be increased much if any, as for your counter against damage....I have nothing against it really assuming it was balancing and not negating the damage entirely or maybe a chance to shrug off some or all of the damage, but again the chance would have to be fair with in the context of our game.

So how does a mage have more skill points available than a dexxer? I mean...over all it is fair to say a mage "NEEDS" as in HAS TO HAVE more props than a melee type NEEDS. All the ones you would add on as a requirement are ones that benefit both classes equally. Also disarm works wonders against the majority of mages with mage weapon (argue them running away and I will say you can equally run away just as easy.)

 

[Carnage loves uo]

scribe poison mages ftw and the dexer that are crying obviously u dont know how to play our temps and need to learn how to play them i kill mages on mages i kill dexers on mages i kill dexers on dexers and mages on dexers dosent matter i will continue to play every temp from ns/ds dexer to ns tamer dexer to mage tamer to myst mage ect and pwn with em all k thx

 

[ReaperNI]

So how does a mage have more skill points available than a dexxer? I mean...over all it is fair to say a mage "NEEDS" as in HAS TO HAVE more props than a melee type NEEDS. All the ones you would add on as a requirement are ones that benefit both classes equally. Also disarm works wonders against the majority of mages with mage weapon (argue them running away and I will say you can equally run away just as easy.)

im sorry to intruput you from filling your bag of regs to cast you spells oh wait mages got that too. sorry that the game has been so kind to from the begining the most op template and since it creation of uo dexxors have suffered all the way. here a feather for your hat mysticism is uo new "thing" why would i buy it? oh becuase it thrumps all the previous things you think it doesnt that laughable

 

[Raptor85]

I only have one proper response to the set of changes.....

YouTube - ‪Handel - Messiah - Hallelujah Chorus‬‏


.....long...long overdue

for the dexxers complaining, talismen can remove mortal in a bind, and it's duration isn't that long, back off the attack for a second to heal, like we did for years and years before.

 

[Tanduay]

It seems that the game is being pushed again to favor Tamers and large Guild assaults. Every time they make "game Balancing changes" its never to reign in tamers and their unstoppable monsters that force the game “balance” even further against characters that are “merely” fighters, mages and other skill based player-characters. Please stop punishing the players that have worked hard to raise their character’s skills and who don’t use megalithic power-level monsters and ultra-rare super-powered relics instead. Why not ask us what we want in the game, I started UO back in December 1997 and not since the beta review has anyone asked me anything about this game and where it should be headed. Nuff said…

 

[WildWobble]

LOL this is why i have said many times our dev team is the pits now. so you want to try and nerf the sampire template once more eh? FAIL once more you have made it so we must adapt lets see how to counter your changes.. #1 lit strike up to 10 mana oh no what shall we do... hmm 40 lmc ok so 6 mana i can keep that going no prob with a good mana leech weapon. #2 chiv changes well its now useless so ill just drop it and rely on 100% elemental type weapons i have been working towards that anyhow so no biggy there..eoo ah darn i can't get the 50% dmg boost vs the very few mobs with no slayer type shucks oh well i still pump out massive dmg won't make a diffrence to me other then a bit more time spent on them. also changeing apple timer to 45 thats just to long. 20-30 sounds better to me.

Only one way to nerf sampire that is to change vamp form.

 

[EDA_GL]

Overall not too bad of notes.

I would like to offer a few suggestions.

Protection:
Currently this is excessively OP on a mystic (pair it with stone form.)
What about making protection similar to the magic reflection pool.
Once you cast protection, you have a damage "shield" to work through before you can re-cast protection.
On top of that, have it have a 60-second cool down before you can go back into protection.

Stone Form:
It should not be the "go to" when you are in a pinch.
There should be a MASSIVE speed negative to this form (ALWAYS walk.)
This form should also be allowed to be hit with melee specials, not 100% immune to everything.

Spell Plague:
It is not too bad how it is now, other than having two people seesaw casting it on whoever they are dumping on.
Why not have a cool-down before a target can have it casted on again? *Think how "your target resists paralyze" after hit with a para weapon*
Your target cannot be spell plagued at this time...please try again.

Apple timer:

If they do not change spell plague to my suggestion, I think 20 seconds would be great for a timer. Just a few more seconds that what it is now, but seconds can be the difference between life and death in the field.

 

[Tanduay]

You are on the money Winker with that statement, everyday I feel like UO is slowly being destroyed/changed by people who only understand simplistic PVP only games like DAoC….oh well soon ill get my screen shots and say my goodbyes to OU…who am I kidding my UO was murdered long ago in Texas and its corpse was dragged to California for a slow dismemberment…

 

[John Galt]

When you mortal someone and they apple/cleansing winds/remove curse, are you supposed to be able to mortal them again immediately, or is there some cooldown before you can mortal them again?

 

[John Galt]

Apples are op, 45 seconds is way better than 15, but 60+ would be better.

 

[hon]

Hey everybodys talking about all the changes, How this hurts a vamp, How this helps a mage. With all the changes that are on test now I think that us as players of many years will find a way to still come out on top. Buy what i seen on test I dont see them letting it go live like this, The one change I would like to see will never happen, We all have a archer, swordsman, and mages. And now throwers. I love the way in pvm and also in PVP how 3 out of theses guys seem to miss alot when the one thats getting a big shot of 40 sdi never misses even when you have 70 dci

 

[Cailleach]

If you have criticisms, that's fine, lets hear them. But if you can't post them in a constructive manner, don't bother posting at all.

Keep it polite please.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Hey everybodys talking about all the changes, How this hurts a vamp, How this helps a mage. With all the changes that are on test now I think that us as players of many years will find a way to still come out on top. Buy what i seen on test I dont see them letting it go live like this, The one change I would like to see will never happen, We all have a archer, swordsman, and mages. And now throwers. I love the way in pvm and also in PVP how 3 out of theses guys seem to miss alot when the one thats getting a big shot of 40 sdi never misses even when you have 70 dci

With out a warrior (most prefered) or possibly a pet to tank for you, all casters are near useless in pvm. Save for things that can not hit you from a distance and things that can't freeze you for extended periods of time. And arguing that you can't miss in pvp is slightly laughable...I guess if you cast harm the whole time you might never fizzle. Sure a "hit" might be based on the rng and thus a miss from a mage is based on the same rng, but that's just how the game works no? RNG rules all?

 

[Daelomin]

It might be well written, but just because a change comes to the game some 5+ years after it was needed does not make it a bad change. I am neutral to the changes, I can understand wanting to leave them as is, and I do not see the affect they have on pvp (only talking about the Chivalry changes here) but at the same time I am an advocate of innovation and the fact that this is suppose to be a game that you should have to cooperate with other players to accomplish some tasks.

I agree with you that this is Testing, and while some people like to believe they ignore our input putting it in will in no way harm what comes out. People like to focus on the negative events and not on the positive ones, IE the example given of the HS changes but no regard for when do/did stop/change production of a publish.

Well written.

 

[Daelomin]

To me, this is the EXACT OPPOSITE route PvP should be taking.

What happens when somebody gets poisoned? They bolt from the screen. What happens when somebody get mortally wounded or hit with a necro curse? They bolt from the screen. Higher SDI means when you get to 50% life you're going to need to...bolt from the screen to heal.

Combat needs to last longer and yo need to find a way to keep this game from becoming about screen jousting.

The new higher SDI cap will allow pure-necros and pure-mages to compete vs the one-sided hybrid templates out there. More classes = more fun and versatilty. I applaud this change.... just saying.

 

[Obsidian]

parry... hah, scribe nox!

This. I think their intent was to even out the effectivess of PvP templates and make some of the old templates viable again. I think we will see a return of the scribe mage with 29 poisoning. Same with the tactics mage now that they can have 40 SDI.

As for the sampire, there are lots of ways to adjust the template. Lorgus alreadt said that at 100 chiv you get the same benefits as currently. Over 120 chiv and you get more. The recent evolution of suits replaced parry for healing and with AI I've been reducing my bushido to 100 (I only use it for perfection as I spam AI, and have no parry for evade).

Try the following:
120 Weapon
100 Bushido
100 Tactics
100 Anatomy
100 Healing (or Parrying)
100 Chiv
99 Necro

You've even got a point to spare. You can still get max perfection bonus, run EOO and CW. If you go 100 parry & 100 bush you still parry almost as often as before. If you run healing over parry there is no change. Damage output is the same. And you can now rez with Noble Sacrifce (if you have no healing). Lots of options. I'm interested to see how much better 120 Chiv makes CW and EOO. Probably only downside is I can't use momentum strike but in most cases whirlwind is just as good (if not better).

So I think we should test these changes out a bit more before we claim these changes ruin PvM. As a community we're being too downcast. Remember what happened to faction changes... The community's negative reply shelved the needed faction revamp for years. Let's not doom these ideas before trying them out.

-OBSIDIAN-

 

[Squeax]

So after messing around on TC1:

I don't really care about the Chivalry changes. It's been silly all along that someone could dump like 60 points into Chivalry and get nearly the full benefit, when 60 of anything else is almost worthless.

Lightning Strike change is brutal on anyone who isn't a Chivalry Sampire doing a billion damage with a high mana leech weapon.

Suggestion: Cut me some slack on Lightning Strike mana cost if I'm over 300 points into the usual cost-reducing warrior skills. It might make that cost-reduction a bit relevant again, and spare me having to ditch all my weapons without mana leech on them.

Let the Chivalry/Necromancy/Basketweaving/Haberdashery skillmonkeys eat the Lightning Strike nerf. Don't just stick it to every schmoe who can't put 50% mana leech on every weapon or 15% HCI on everything else.

 

[RL'S pker]

Hey everybodys talking about all the changes, How this hurts a vamp, How this helps a mage. With all the changes that are on test now I think that us as players of many years will find a way to still come out on top. Buy what i seen on test I dont see them letting it go live like this, The one change I would like to see will never happen, We all have a archer, swordsman, and mages. And now throwers. I love the way in pvm and also in PVP how 3 out of theses guys seem to miss alot when the one thats getting a big shot of 40 sdi never misses even when you have 70 dci

What you forgeting to mention is mages have to stop and cast, dexxers do not.

If a mage needs to heal, even after using a potion they have to stop. If a mage wants to go offensive, once again you have to stop and cast.

Meanwhile the whole time you have all dexxer templates on auto run...

The change to SDI will allow mages to compete with the current high output dmg dexxers.

death strike = 50 dmg
AI's = 45-48dmg with hit spells
nerve strike= 40+ dmg with hit spell
moving shot= about 25dmg with hit spell.
plus dexxers using orc brutes for extra dmg....and pets

Is it wrong to be giving the mage class some love to compete vs todays high powered dexxers? if they nerfed cleansing wind, plague, and mortal too i think it would be the most balanced it's been in YEARS!

 

[5% Luck]

Maybe Im wrong here but IF you survive the initial mana dump from one of these so called OP mage templates (SDI/EVAL/MAGE) wont that mage just be done. I mean that mage sullied their sdi cap if they had med or focus over 30?

eval med and focus are all support skills?

 

[RL'S pker]

Maybe Im wrong here but IF you survive the initial mana dump from one of these so called OP mage templates (SDI/EVAL/MAGE) wont that mage just be done. I mean that mage sullied their sdi cap if they had med or focus over 30?

eval med and focus are all support skills?

a pure mage is allowed 120 med. If they have over 30 focus/necro/ss/mystic/weaving/chiv, they do not get the SDI bonus.

Basically you are going to see sexy scribe wrestle mages on the field again. Along with a lot of other long and forgotten templates.

 

[semmerset]

Does this opinion want to destroy the combat game balance?

PvM playe becomes PvP player because it is killed more easily.
PvM player is killed still easily.
There is no opinion on the side attacked by PK only by the opinion in the standpoint of PK.

The change in Chivarly is a deterioration.
It is bad for PvM because of this opinion.

 

[ReaperNI]

id be happy if they put the same timer on cleansing winds as apples. protection/winds spam is unbeatable if your a dexxor.
and make resisting spells work towards all spells not just three spells out of 112 spells (mystic mage necro spellweaving).

resisting spells changes
1)chance (resist vs casting skill) to avoid all cursing spells (yep that spell plauge too.)

2)remove dmg from offensive spells

man i think i ask for to much for resisting spells to actully work hmm

Ps how bout a imbuable properity to remove magic. would work exactly like the mystic spell just imbuable on a wep. so dexxors would be able to take a mage out of protection/stone form or which ever eles.

these fixes would allow for ea intend changes to still be useful (allowing pures to return to the game) and wouldnt put dexxors at such a disadvantage.

Reaper

 

[PaithanTheElf]

mages are op to the max. i let any good pvper say different. nothing like getting insta stated by a mystic mage curse explosion spellplague hail storm trigger or something of that manner. on more then one ocassion i have been at the bad end of this nasty combo only to be dropped within 2-3 seconds.

not sure if my bush dexxor is glitched or something but my evade doesnt work for anything and i only get a critcal strike maybe once every 20 shots

and i know this is stratics so we will just say some of the so called "better pvpers" have "better connections (wink wink) " which makes it almost impossible for us dexxors to see someone all the way through till they are dead.

You are just really bad. How does one cast curse, explosion, spell plague and hail storm in 2-3 seconds? Secondly are you just standing there not disrupting them what so ever? Are you healing/using pots/apples? That combo would not kill someone just sitting there drinking one pot. If you do ANYTHING in game you would not die to that. Bad PvPers input is pointless.

 

[PaithanTheElf]

...

 

[Cailleach]

We are NOT doing board PvP here, thank you. Keep it in game. These threads are for feedback, not a running bicker about who pwned who.

 

[Storm]

We are NOT doing board PvP here, thank you. Keep it in game. These threads are for feedback, not a running bicker about who pwned who.

Ditto keep it on subject

 

[Squeax]

Give everyone time to get adjusted to the Chivalry changes and then make the life leech of Vampiric Embrace scale based on Spirit Speak. Muahahahah.

 

[longshanks]

i think on the sdi issue the dev's are spot on here. a regular mage temp will once again work. A necromancer has a chance to compete as well.

it seemed lately that all you saw in the field were dreadmare/archer, mystic/mage and ds-ns/dexxer.

poison is again viable.

like the op said, the game is a sandbox therefore balance will never be achieved. these changes in my opinion will allow for more options however.