[Feedback] Combat Game Balance

[Smoot]

It would be fun to dust off my nox pally, although im wondering if poisoning will have to be GM now? not just the 80 you needed before (precise strike)

AI AI AI lethal poison. They run away, attempt to cure, fail, die.

And now with artificing, i can have 10 identical krysses pre poisoned in my pack.

 

[Lord Frodo]

Ok, im going to copy a char and test out the changes.
If im wrong ill edit my post and shut up.

Also post what you discover, good or bad.

 

[NuSair]

Even though I play a sampire and do most my pvming solo, I like how the changes will effect that aspect of the game. Seems to me they are trying to bring back the multiplayer aspect of our MMORPG. We shouldn't be able to hop on a sampire and solo 98% of the pvm content.

There are other templates that can do that also, and some just as if not more effectively.

 

[Lord Frodo]

"Even though I play a sampire and do most my pvming solo, I like how the changes will effect that aspect of the game. Seems to me they are trying to bring back the multiplayer aspect of our MMORPG. We shouldn't be able to hop on a sampire and solo 98% of the pvm content."

Agreed

 

[Smoot]

No, because of the time, effort and gold spent in building a template. And the tight template is just tossed out the door.

Personally, I am going to wait and see what the numbers are.

I usually get a good chuckle out of these knee jerk reactions. Hell, I laugh at my own from time to time.

A sampire isn't that TIGHT of a template. What a change like this will do is MAKE it a tight template, and remove the small variables that currently exist in it.

Im thinking with my sampire, ill just take a strength hit, remove the 16 strength from gems, make new ones with 30 chiv. maybe lower anat a bit more, that should give me 100-120 chiv. Will just have to use potions a little bit more.

 

[Pinco]

What is/are your templates that are going to be so nerfed by all this? How many bosses can you solo now that you will not be able to if/when this goes in prodo shards? Have you even been on Test Shard to see how this all works? Quit ranting NERF NERF NERF and give facts without all the whinning.

I see enough:

consecrate weapon has 54% chance to hit the lower resistance at 65

divine fury exist just for the full refresh, without it became useless unless they don't remove the -20 dci.

enemy of one has the damage bonus scaled with the skill so at 65 will be something like 28%?

all based on karma (more than now) that actually is a mess to keep high.

 

[NuSair]

"Even though I play a sampire and do most my pvming solo, I like how the changes will effect that aspect of the game. Seems to me they are trying to bring back the multiplayer aspect of our MMORPG. We shouldn't be able to hop on a sampire and solo 98% of the pvm content."

Agreed

If that is what they were trying to do, they would have fixed heath bars and would have set it up so that people in a party can have their own loot corpses.

The changes to chiv are trying to nerf Sampires, pure and simple, which is sad, because there were templates that were solo'ing the stuff before and were not touched.

 

[DenAlton036]

So where all all the comments and threads from the warriors that say yes please nerf my core set of skill, I like rebuilding my templates and suit everytime the devs have a horrible idea. If pvp wanted change then change their end not ours? Now I will consider if I am going to continue to play this game. Im tired of everything that UO was being slowly taken away.

*raises hand"

Quit nerfing those of us who like to play solo and fix all the bugs..

 

[jbfortune]

Have people been complaining about how OP Chiv is for PVP then?

This seems strange to me, all this does it make PVM dexers less viable. So basically more reason to just use pets.

Also, have I read this right? If you have one main skill, you get an increased cap of SDI. Why is Animal Taming on the list? If You have taming and magery, you lose the bonus. But just with Taming, why would you need a SDI cap increase?

 

[5% Luck]

Does that mean 200 or greater in Poisoning and Magery combined like it is now? Or does that mean it's necessary to have 100 Poisoning in combination with 100 or greater Magery??

Or is there a poison scroll coming out>/?

 

[anvira]

Insane how all the changes will affect the PvM.

Apples, 45 seconds...WOW. Why bother at that point. 20 seconds, meh, better than nothing.

Really dumbfounded about the chiv changes.....

zzzzzzzzzZZZZZZzzzzzzzzz

How ridiculous.

Basara, well put:

"Once again, the focus on PvP appears to be designed less to balance PvP but more to utterly GUT* PvM while making minor impacts to PvP, especially in the Chivalry changes - as if the changes to JOAT and Special moves over the last few years weren't insulting enough.

(* not quite the most accurate word - the word I would use if I could is usually used a phrase with "and pillage".)

How about starting by undoing the damage done to PvM via "PvP changes", and then figuring out some way to make the changes effect ONLY PvP - instead of making weapon PvM the 1 or 2 trick pony it is.

It's really impressive that the most changes are to Chivalry (a skill meant for PvM), when it was already effectively turned into a secondary skill by previous rounds of changes that made most players turn their PvM weapon characters into Samurai combined with "true" spellcaster skills like Necro and mysticism - and these appear to be meant to marginalize its use outside PvP even more. "

 

[NuSair]

Im thinking with my sampire, ill just take a strength hit, remove the 16 strength from gems, make new ones with 30 chiv. maybe lower anat a bit more, that should give me 100-120 chiv. Will just have to use potions a little bit more.

Yeah, as an initial reaction, I considered the same thing. I wouldn't have to do anything other than drop STR off the jewlery and put on +15 Chiv... would have to change something else since Chiv is a 1.4 weight and Str is a 1.1.

I only use G-heals atm.... guess I'll have to toss G-Strength in there as well.

 

[NuSair]

all based on karma (more than now) that actually is a mess to keep high.

To be fair, on a Sampire, Karma is easy to keep up.... Wammys on the other hand.... not so much.

 

[5% Luck]

Have people been complaining about how OP Chiv is for PVP then?

This seems strange to me, all this does it make PVM dexers less viable. So basically more reason to just use pets.

Also, have I read this right? If you have one main skill, you get an increased cap of SDI. Why is Animal Taming on the list? If You have taming and magery, you lose the bonus. But just with Taming, why would you need a SDI cap increase?

There was a massive thread on curses being No P. Meaning they along with poison were useless especially in PvP. Now it does bring a small nerf to the current PvM templates but I am still unsure about theninjia samuri changes and there special moves. Im willing to bet stacking DCI and stacking -DCI might be OP in both cases!

 

[PJay]

I was so looking forward to this! I was even hoping for bug fixes (wishful thinking) Instead Chiv seems to get a overhaul which dosnt really effect pvp but hurts pvm. Who said chiv needed balancing?? only Chiv issue was the 4/6 cap and that wasnt game breaking.

The SDI caps like a kick in the nether regions to all those players who wish to innovate, test, and research different templates. Are you telling me you wish to Stiffle creativity in uo??

Cure pots great move! Apple timer too long if its 12 now make it 15 20 max.

Glad to see the taming added to the SDI list at least it shows your aware of some of the pets which should possibly never been added to the game certinatly not been allowed to be used for pvp (dread warhorse)

But seriously this is not a PvP fix.

 

[NuSair]

Have people been complaining about how OP Chiv is for PVP then?

Those changes could be made (mostly) to affect just PVM only and they didn't- so it's nerf on PvM as much if not more so a change for PvP. It would just be a single check to see which effects to apply.

This seems strange to me, all this does it make PVM dexers less viable. So basically more reason to just use pets.

I think it makes Sampires/Wammys less viable.... can't really say on other PVM warrior templates, as mine already have GM/120 Chiv.

Thing is.... is it scaled to GM or to 120? They said back when the power scrolls came out, they wouldn't make it so that you HAD to have 120's.... we'll see.

 

[John Galt]

I PvM and these changes are great for PvM.

 

[Pinco]

Those changes could be made (mostly) to affect just PVM only and they didn't- so it's nerf on PvM as much if not more so a change for PvP. It would just be a single check to see which effects to apply.




I think it makes Sampires/Wammys less viable.... can't really say on other PVM warrior templates, as mine already have GM/120 Chiv.

Thing is.... is it scaled to GM or to 120? They said back when the power scrolls came out, they wouldn't make it so that you HAD to have 120's.... we'll see.

120 skill and 20k karma ....

 

[Myphsar]

Ok, im going to copy a char and test out the changes.
If im wrong ill edit my post and shut up.

Also post what you discover, good or bad.

Ok,
Tested the chivalry changes,
No spells casted hitting target (hiryu) for average 18 damage per hit
With enemy of one casted on target (hiryu) for average 21 damage per hit
With enemy of one & concentrate casted on target (hiryu) seemed RANDOM damage between 20 - 50 per hit.
Not useing a slayer and chivalry at 65.
I think i will have no problem adjusting, this change to chivalry i just did not expect to see because it is only doing what it is supposed to do.
Have the mobs been complaining about people hitting them too hard? hehe

 

[jbfortune]

Those changes could be made (mostly) to affect just PVM only and they didn't- so it's nerf on PvM as much if not more so a change for PvP. It would just be a single check to see which effects to apply.




I think it makes Sampires/Wammys less viable.... can't really say on other PVM warrior templates, as mine already have GM/120 Chiv.

Thing is.... is it scaled to GM or to 120? They said back when the power scrolls came out, they wouldn't make it so that you HAD to have 120's.... we'll see.

If you look at the Warrior forum, 99% of temps in there have like 61 - 70 chiv, which by the sound of it, might well not be enough now. Also, the LS increase! Another PvM nerf!

I just don't get why all of a sudden they make these changes when I really don't think I've ever heard anyone complain about them. It seems like a waste of time.

I'm sure people hate how Samps can kill loads of stuff solo, but no one is being stopped from making one themselves or working in a team to kill things, why would forcing me to kill stuff with some stranger please people?

 

[Martyna Zmuir]

Why consistently nerf PvM in the guise of PvP changes? PvM has nothing to do with PvP, its high time the Devs learned this - and learned to code them separately.

 

[jbfortune]

I PvM and these changes are great for PvM.

Can I ask why you feel this?

I spend most of my time in this game working skills, I really don't want to have to change 5 templates and 5 suits!

 

[Storm]

they apply to all the game, probably improving pvp but destroying pvm...

here is the way: make a pvp map and lock all this stupid rules inside. Where you can do pvm just let us have the game as it is. Thanks.

I agree this will destroy pvm I agree with pinco make these just pvp rule set!

This has always been the problem they "fix" something for pvm and it screws up pvp or they "Fix" pvp and screw up pvm

I am going to play test these but from what I see now it does not look good and for the first time sense playing ultima (and I started with ultima 4) I am rethinking whether or not to stay with the game!

I play a pvp environmental (siege) and I occasionally will play in felucca on my other shards making this a blanket change to ALL is a big mistake just to make the few who pvp happy !

Thats my opinion until I do some more play testing but I dont see my mind changing much

Storm

 

[5% Luck]

If that is what they were trying to do, they would have fixed heath bars and would have set it up so that people in a party can have their own loot corpses.

The changes to chiv are trying to nerf Sampires, pure and simple, which is sad, because there were templates that were solo'ing the stuff before and were not touched.

I dont think this is correct. If players can solo stuff that is not the problem. The problem is that EVERYONE runs the same char template and THAT is just lame.

Uo is after all about diversity. If upon entering the game the players all tell you:

"You need to be this to be successful"

what kind of game is this? Its a cookie cutter game like all those others I quit so many times for that exact reason!

 

[olduofan]

chivalry changes are very bad since now we must have high chivalry level to get the same thing we already have and all without increase the total skillcap that actually is at the limit to make a decent warrior

they have destroyed the true warriors long ago and now this. they nerfed parry, focus and now this wtf

my skills are

120 swords (needs to do as much damage as a GD with 120 tactics/ana)
120 parry (needs to be changed back)
120 tactics (needs to give better chance to block and hit)
120 anatomy (needs to be adjusted to heal far more and faster at 120)
120 healing (needs a huge adjustment and made so aids can be ins)
80 chivalry (needs to stay as it is maybe lower the skill needed for eo1)
40 focus (needs to be adjusted for melee class)

this guy cant fight nothing stronger than scubbas
all he uses is apples orange and purple petals

this has always been my favorite template and over the years they have destroyed the true melee templates

I have said this before they can balance this game a lot better by having set classes that can only use 1 spell book and be limited to the skills that can be put in any template set.

no more sampires and mixed classes

hell how about bards are we going to nerf them they solo godly mob bosses just go watch the latest event my chars cant even get 1 of the mobs there 1/4 way down in health with out dieing 20 times and now they want to nerf me even more dont even get me started on tamers (and yes you all know I have a 120 tamer and a GD which I hardly ever use "ALL KILL" is not a challenge to me nor is it fun) all I can say is WTF they have no clue as usual.

like I had posted before after spring cleaning I am out maybe ill return when we get a new dev team.

 

[P.W.N]

These proposed changes are being put up well in advance of Publishing them to all production shards. We do look forward to your opinions and feedback.

Thanks everyone

Mesanna and Logrus

So in not so many words you have just made mages even more over powered and completely stuffed a wooden bat up the badges of the archer and meli char,instead of changing things that don't need to be changed why don't you start sorting the big problems out like speed hack and duping,with every patch you seem to ruin the game,i hope this new patch does not go live on all shards,the poisening change is a good one but the rest is pointless... do the uo devs even play ultima online? me thinks not

 

[jbfortune]

I dont think this is correct. If players can solo stuff that is not the problem. The problem is that EVERYONE runs the same char template and THAT is just lame.

Uo is after all about diversity. If upon entering the game the players all tell you:

"You need to be this to be successful"

what kind of game is this? Its a cookie cutter game like all those others I quit so many times for that exact reason!

But people will still have the same templates... How will this change that?

 

[olduofan]

But people will still have the same templates... How will this change that?

I agree

and its called balance which they have proven the have no clue how to do this. If they actually played I am sure they could have a better chance at Balancing this game. just a thought if you was trying to start a restaurant wouldn't you at least taste the food before trying to sale it? I am sure im wrong just look at all the new players we have now...... ooooh wait that was on a free sever nvm.

 

[5% Luck]

But people will still have the same templates... How will this change that?

Its not so much the player wont change but that new players(and old alike) aren't stuck playing a very specific playstyle. There is more room to "choose" style and template and that IMHO was the goal here.

Now when asked for advice the answers will range a bit more the sampire ...Only work on your sampire.

 

[Saint of Killers]

Interesting changes. At first I was like...a little too much change at once, especially since I just finished 2 new characters to xfer to another shard today, which will both be effected greatly if these changes stick.

Whatever, too many mystic jokers running around (including myself) so change is fine.

Paith will love this on ATL. He's been riding people about apple timers forever.

Sedric The Pure is gonna love this as well!

 

[Madrid]

Defensive Mastery should be applied to ALL resistances not just physical.

 

[Logrus]

Secondary Support skills also count toward focus spec
(Missed this in initial notes)
These include: Focus, Spirit Speak, Imbuing, and Evaluate Intelligence.

Originally Posted by Bleak_Mythic
Better Context:
Since secondary support skills modify the damage of the primary skills you are only allow to have one primary above 30.0 and one secondary above 30.0.

Pure Mage = Magery + Eval Int
Pure Mystic = Mysticism + Focus/Imbuing
Pure Necro = Necromancy + Spirit Speak
Pure Spellweaver = Spellweaving

"Focused" Titles are unlocked upon meeting the required skills.

 

[Picus at the office]

I dont think this is correct. If players can solo stuff that is not the problem. The problem is that EVERYONE runs the same char template and THAT is just lame.

I fail to see the issue with this, 4 years ago it was tamers everywhere farming everything but it just turned out to be that this temp was and is fun for alot of people to play. In my guild 70% of the members have a sampire and we all enjoy running the char solo or in a group but you seem to think that if the majority of players enjoy it, by default, it must be wrong.

I'd rather see the same amount of players in the game running similar temps than half the population with a varity of classes, there is no need to nerf this.

 

[R Traveler]

Im willing to bet stacking DCI and stacking -DCI might be OP in both cases!

What is "OP" in this context? Original post? Can't understand.

 

[Saint of Killers]

Have people been complaining about how OP Chiv is for PVP then?

This seems strange to me, all this does it make PVM dexers less viable. So basically more reason to just use pets.

Also, have I read this right? If you have one main skill, you get an increased cap of SDI. Why is Animal Taming on the list? If You have taming and magery, you lose the bonus. But just with Taming, why would you need a SDI cap increase?

Lol, with the amount of mage tamers on ATL right now in pvp, could you imagine 40% sdi on those same mages with their Dread spamming on you also?

 

[P.W.N]

Ladies and Gentlemen welcome to mages online!! IT WOULD BE NICE IF WE COULD CHOOSE OUR TEMPLATES DEVS! we payed your wages for the last 12 yrs and yet we are still getting poor poor customer service as always but hey we expect no other....

 

[Specialshoes]

Secondary Support skills also count toward focus spec
(Missed this in initial notes)
These include: Focus, Spirit Speak, Imbuing, and Evaluate Intelligence.

I don't understand this. Having a points in a support skill will cause me to not get the bonus?

 

[jbfortune]

Its not so much the player wont change but that new players(and old alike) aren't stuck playing a very specific playstyle. There is more room to "choose" style and template and that IMHO was the goal here.

Now when asked for advice the answers will range a bit more the sampire ...Only work on your sampire.

I doubt that!

The temp will just change to either incorporate more chiv or chiv on jewels.

 

[Mr. Smither1]

We can't put corrupted life leech on every new monster(well they have put it on most new bosses/event monsters) or try to add it to every old monster so lets try to find a new way to nerf sampires.

 

[Storm]

I know a lot of people are not happy (myself included) but lets not turn this into a bash the devs fest please lets get into the meat of what is good and what is bad AND WHY!

 

[NuSair]

If you look at the Warrior forum, 99% of temps in there have like 61 - 70 chiv, which by the sound of it, might well not be enough now. Also, the LS increase! Another PvM nerf!

I just don't get why all of a sudden they make these changes when I really don't think I've ever heard anyone complain about them. It seems like a waste of time.

I'm sure people hate how Samps can kill loads of stuff solo, but no one is being stopped from making one themselves or working in a team to kill things, why would forcing me to kill stuff with some stranger please people?

Well, I think most of the temps only had that much, because you really only needed that much. There isn't much/enough benefit in taking chiv to GM/120 (well, til now). While I wanted to see changes made to Chiv, it was more to add stuff to the top end to make it worth going to GM/120... not forcing it on people.

I didn't see them nerf wither when all those necros were running around pwning up spawns.

 

[Storm]

I don't understand this. Having a points in a support skill will cause me to not get the bonus?

you have it backward

 

[NuSair]

120 skill and 20k karma ....

snap:


*sigh*

 

[Saint of Killers]

All of the pvm complaints in this thread remind me of when they changed JOAT, and everyone said the sky was falling.

I do think that if so much emphasis is put on chiv, then it should definitely be incorporated into the skill set for mana reduction on weapon specials.

Lightning strike was too cheap: 5 mana reduced to 3 with a proper lmc 40% suit (like all sampires should have, but the bad ones do not) is silly.

Apples at 25 seconds seems right. Fifteen is way too short, and 45 way too long.

 

[chad]

Enchanted Apples:
Cooldown Increased to 45
They now have a chance to fail depending on the level and number of curses applied to the user.
Failure does not invoke the cooldown period.

That's fine, but you're going to need to do something in regards to mortal wound. As one of my guild mates has suggested; implement enchanted peaches with a timer of 15 seconds that only removes mortal. Also, you may want to look into the fact that spell plague blocks all curses cast before it from being removed.

Increase of spell damage increase cap from *15% to 40%* for templates that focus in only one spell school.

Well, this is completely over powered lol. An sdi cap was put in place for a reason seven years ago. 40 damage energy bolts are NOT ok.

For healers with 80 skill or greater in healing and anatomy, at half the Heal Duration for self heals, healing will attempt to remove poison and bleed effects. This will reduce the amount healed when the heal is finished its normal duration.

Completely unnecessary. Dexers already have the advantage of healing without stopping movement. Why give them the ability to heal through whatever, aside from mortal.


Cleansing Winds:
Should no longer heal target after removing mortal wound.


The one thing that actually needs adjusting, doesn't get adjusted? This spell can keep doing what it's doing, but it should have the amount it heals capped. It should never heal over 30, or remove it's area effect. This spell has literally destroyed any emphasis there ever was on team play. Now, it's just "Stand in a group and cast this spell and heal everybody."

*
*
*

The rest of the changes appear to just be filler. PvM will be just as easy as ever with these changes.

 

[Daelomin]

Very interesting changes.

More templates will be much more viable in PvP instead of the current template sidedness.

I especially like the Focus-Mage choice - which will mean you can finally level damage-wise with the other templates around.

Changes to poisoning and curing/potions will also bring more versatility to both templates and fighting.

I understand why some people react over the suggested changes to Chivalry, though making it scale towards skill should have been designed in the first place.
I think making it scale towards skill is a necessary step if Chivalry should ever become a self-propelled class. Additional classes will bring more versatility back to the game....
However I do think the current spells of Chivalry isnt worth the full investment of skill points.
Perhaps 1 or 2 new spells for Chivalry which would make it more worthwhile and it will become a fun self-propelled class to play.

Why not a AoE spell paralyzing all hostile targets within 3 tiles (and may be resisted by resisting spells)?

 

[jbfortune]

Well, I think most of the temps only had that much, because you really only needed that much. There isn't much/enough benefit in taking chiv to GM/120 (well, til now). While I wanted to see changes made to Chiv, it was more to add stuff to the top end to make it worth going to GM/120... not forcing it on people.

I didn't see them nerf wither when all those necros were running around pwning up spawns.

Oh I agree, why not give a benefit to Chiv at 120 whilst not nerfing it for everyone who already has it? Maybe a DI out of the normal cap on EoO and Con Wep? A larger increase to SSI with divine fury or less penalty to DCI?

 

[Lost-Soul]

Poisoning on a mage should increase the chance of actually hitting opponet. Reduce the chance of being resisted. Especially if you are going to allow dexers to cure and heal with one bandaid. 100 points for poison on a mage is alot to cram into a template.

Also I can't believe that there is only one change being looked in regards to mysticism. Hail storm also needs to be looked at in addition to cleansing winds.

 

[Winker]

OMG WTF are you Devs thining about? Screw over PvP dexterS then screw over PvM sampireS .

Well it looks like 11 years may be enough for me.

 

[Storm]

nothing wrong with hail storm