Classic Shard #2

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

I think a lot of people that were "trammies" back then (2000-2003) saw the light after AoS was introduced.

For me, I was always fiercely anti-PK. At points of my time pre-UO:R, I even occassionally wished for something like Trammel, because I would get sick of things that caused players I knew, and liked, to leave the game.

But even as much as I hated PKs and what they were doing to the game, I saw the bigger picture...that removing PvP from the game was going to cause it to become boring for most people, and that would lead to escalating need for escalating content.

 

[Renyard Foxenwyle]

Listening to the Richard Garriot interview right now and he was talking about the ecological AI. It made me think of something that I don't remember seeing for very long after I joined in April of 1998. I remember the Shopkeepers used to ask you to go kill certain NPC's for them because they were plotting to kill them. Whatever happened to that? What was the name of that AI?

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Listening to the Richard Garriot interview right now and he was talking about the ecological AI. It made me think of something that I don't remember seeing for very long after I joined in April of 1998. I remember the Shopkeepers used to ask you to go kill certain NPC's for them because they were plotting to kill them. Whatever happened to that? What was the name of that AI?

And do you remember when they would spam stuff like "A Magical Sword of Ruin can be found to the Northwest of here!"

I never could find ANYTHING they were talking about.

I did love the NPC beggers though.

I also remember that the empty buildings in Trinsic, and other towns, were actually the homes of NPCs. You could go into some of them, and they would spout off about being in their home and such. That might have been gone by the time T2A launched...I can't remember exactly when it was phased out of the game.

I also remember when you would see grizzly bears fighting harts and great harts for no apparent reason...and rabbits would attack lizardmen.

There was so much to the game that they just let fall by the wayside.

 

[Renyard Foxenwyle]

And do you remember when they would spam stuff like "A Magical Sword of Ruin can be found to the Northwest of here!"

I never could find ANYTHING they were talking about.

I did love the NPC beggers though.

I also remember that the empty buildings in Trinsic, and other towns, were actually the homes of NPCs. You could go into some of them, and they would spout off about being in their home and such. That might have been gone by the time T2A launched...I can't remember exactly when it was phased out of the game.

I also remember when you would see grizzly bears fighting harts and great harts for no apparent reason...and rabbits would attack lizardmen.

There was so much to the game that they just let fall by the wayside.

Oh! The Colors!......the Beggars were all on acid I think. The Bears vs Deer thing was the ecology AI he was talking about in the interview. I don't think that portion got totally deactivated until after the reputation system was patched in.

You're right, too much was left to fall by the wayside because it wasn't feasible at the time to tweak it.

 

[Renyard Foxenwyle]

It's funny, in the RG interview he mentions somthing he calls "False Lore" in other words things that we believed affected in game mechanics but actually had nothing to do with it. Prime examples of things I knew i believed early on. Sitting on a log made you recover stamina faster, anyone wearing bone armor was evil, Rikitachiki the ratman had it out for me....every ratman I was killed by was named that.

I can't help but wonder if a classic shard will have the magic the real UO had for us back in the day. Maybe if the dev's utilized systems that they abandoned it would bring some of the magic of not knowing back.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Wanna hear something funny?

I died in Deciet last night!

I decided to go visit a few of the old dungeons, just to sort of get ideas on how they would rate in today's game and if they needed changes. 3 liches all agro'ed on me at once and .... OoooooOoOo.

Wanna hear something sad?

I didn't care...not at all.

 

[Evlar]

Heh...

I liked his view of the "Everquest model" and the "Ultima model" of MMO's.

Interesting to hear his thoughts that there's "gap out there" for the Ultima model. Note how he didn't say "Ultima Online" model. Probably because current UO has changed far beyond the original concept and followed the percieved strength of other games, rather than remain faithful to its own strengths and development potential.

Very interesting indeed...

I wish him the very best with his efforts to fill the gap. So will a lot of disenfranchised gamers.

 

[Coldren]

Heh...

I liked his view of the "Everquest model" and the "Ultima model" of MMO's.

Interesting to hear his thoughts that there's "gap out there" for the Ultima model. Note how he didn't say "Ultima Online" model. Probably because current UO has changed far beyond the original concept and followed the percieved strength of other games, rather than remain faithful to its own strengths and development potential.

Very interesting indeed...

I wish him the very best with his efforts to fill the gap. So will a lot of disenfranchised gamers.

Which interview are you guys talking about? Got a link?

[Edit] Nevermind.. Think I found it!

 

[Renyard Foxenwyle]

Heh...

I liked his view of the "Everquest model" and the "Ultima model" of MMO's.

Interesting to hear his thoughts that there's "gap out there" for the Ultima model. Note how he didn't say "Ultima Online" model. Probably because current UO has changed far beyond the original concept and followed the percieved strength of other games, rather than remain faithful to its own strengths and development potential.

Very interesting indeed...

I wish him the very best with his efforts to fill the gap. So will a lot of disenfranchised gamers.

I've got a feeling that their CenterPortal will have something to do with their new MMO. I have a feeling the RG is going to get the mainstream social gamers addicted to a style of game very similar to a sandbox MMO, the launch the MMO with a market already built for it and waiting to go to it with a little motivation.

 

[Evlar]

I've got a feeling that their CenterPortal will have something to do with their new MMO. I have a feeling the RG is going to get the mainstream social gamers addicted to a style of game very similar to a sandbox MMO, the launch the MMO with a market already built for it and waiting to go to it with a little motivation.

It's a very interesting and good concept and it isn't rocket science either.

They clearly understand the trends and perhaps more importantly, they're building a platform, which not only they can use, but many other developers from different companies, using a great and varied range of platforms.

Basically, I like the principals of what they're looking to do and I think their logic has good grounds for success.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

I know that Garriott understands what fans of sandbox games really want...maybe he will do what EA can't...provide a real sandbox game to replace Classic UO.

 

[Evlar]

See, I don't think there's a lot of players on these forums, who understand the sandbox concept.

Perhaps what they don't understand about a sandbox, is it revolves around the imagination of the player, allowing them the freedom to do what they want to do, whenever they want to do it, however and wherever they want to do it.

Every time the current player base complains that an aspect of the game isn't fair - ergo - they can't win or obtain something with consumate ease, then are placated, the game moves yet further from the sandbox.

I would go so far as to say, that UO is not a sandbox any more, it's an illusion of a sandbox. If the current player base "majority" is ok with that, then fine. If their imagination is limited in lack of understanding that to some, UO is more than just items, pretty looking houses, but wider depth and freedom of interaction between players for gameplay, then that's just a shame.

To me, a true sandbox environment is perpetual and endless in possibilities. There is no end game, only events during a continuing adventure.

For those who fail to understand a true sandbox game, I would refer them to the great David Braben games, Elite, Elite Frontier, Elite Frontier: First Encounters.

They were games without end. There was no ultimate victory, though there was genuine progression and acheivement. You could reach "Elite" status and still have only explored less than one percent of what was out there to explore.

If you put David Braben and Richard Garriott in the same room to bounce sandbox ideas of each other, the mind would truly boggle at the possibilities they could create.

 

[Dakkon Blackblade]

It seems there are some who are using a bit of misdirection in order to snow this thing from ever getting off the ground, anyone else noticed the sudden "pay more attention to Siege who cares about classic" mentality?

That's not to say I think Siege doesn't deserve some love, but I can see this slowly going from give Siege some things it's asking for to Siege vs Classic. I have to be honest I really am starting to doubt that this will ever become a reality.

I want the shard to happen but I just feel like it's more likely on the EA side of things to occasionally drum up some excitement on this topic to keep stringing along those who are still paying for their accounts and holding on for hope.

That has been the trend regarding this topic for a long time, it gets brought up, seems to gain a little momentum for a week or two and then everything goes silent until it dies and the cycle repeats itself.

Does anyone else find it strange that after all these years it cannot be a simple yes or no? Of course if we were told no then a lot of the holdouts would just say ok fine and then cancel their accounts and this would never have to be brought up again.

I'm not immune to the hope thing either, even as I am pointing these things out, in the back of my mind I am saying "remember they will fix cheats first and then...." But given the history I'd say we aren't getting it at any point in time.

Of course like the predictable drone that I am, I will keep following and disucssing.

 

[kelmo]

Let's not confuse the two. Siege has it's own agenda. Classic folk have theirs. Let's just agree that diversity is good.

 

[Dakkon Blackblade]

I agree with you on that kelmo, I just don't want people, especially people who don't actually care one way or the other, using either as a weapon against the other.

And I don't think you or any of the other siege community players are doing so, it's more like the trolls who don't want to see us get a server that caters to our play style.

 

[Derium of ls]

I know that Garriott understands what fans of sandbox games really want...maybe he will do what EA can't...provide a real sandbox game to replace Classic UO.

I have a lot of faith in him, he's going back to his roots... And we know he's going to provide for us, well... I 'know' it.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Let's not confuse the two. Siege has it's own agenda. Classic folk have theirs. Let's just agree that diversity is good.

Exactly right!

Siege and Classic are not the same, nor are they juxtopposed to one another. The strawman argument presented by fan bois of the current risk-free item-based game is simply that. It is a diversion tactic intended to make it look like Siege and Classic cannot co-exist. This is false.

Both Siege players, and Classic fans, are UO players. Some of us are even both. In fact, I'd have to say that if a Classic Shard was launched tomorrow, I would play Classic and Siege only and never go back to a prodo shard until the day they pulled the plugs.

 

[Evlar]

Let's not confuse the two. Siege has it's own agenda. Classic folk have theirs. Let's just agree that diversity is good.

Exactly right!

Siege and Classic are not the same, nor are they juxtopposed to one another. The strawman argument presented by fan bois of the current risk-free item-based game is simply that. It is a diversion tactic intended to make it look like Siege and Classic cannot co-exist. This is false.

Both Siege players, and Classic fans, are UO players. Some of us are even both. In fact, I'd have to say that if a Classic Shard was launched tomorrow, I would play Classic and Siege only and never go back to a prodo shard until the day they pulled the plugs.

My sentiments exactly.

Personally, I'm fed-up with being forced down the narrow funnel that the production shards offer me with regards to gameplay. Having alternative options is a good thing.

For sure, they would both provide me with a reason not to close my last remaining account and not to walk away from UO for good.

The question I continue to ask, thinking about the bottom line, is if our wishes as paying customers, is actually worth anything. If the current Siege players and those craving a classic option said "enough is enough", then cancelled their accounts en-masse, how much of a dent would it make to the overall subscriber base?

Probably very little, given I estimate that over 90% of the pro-Siege/Classic supporters are non-Asian, therefore fit into the group of non-Asian players that account for what... less than 30% of the overall player base these days?

Last estimates were that its about a 70/30 split, with the higher proportion of subscribers being Asian based, as opposed to the smaller proportion from elsewhere, including the Americas, Oceania, Europe.

Ultimately, I think it's the demands of the Asian market that will drive the future of UO. Nothing wrong with that in a business sense of course, but I think they're neglecting to understand the reasons why a huge chunk of the non-Asian player base has left UO, but could be tempted to return.

I'm not having a go at the Asian population here, just making observations on indications of player numbers, their proportional representation throughout the world and reasons for them playing or leaving.

 

[Dakkon Blackblade]

It wouldn't dent the bottom line at all, I've realized for a long time that we are more relying on EA to give us a shot with not much to show for our request in a business sense.

If we could get a lot of those people from the free shards to come here and post and make an enormous showing it might have some effect, but I would say nothing short of 100 new posters in the thread would do.

Like I said the more I try to rationally think about the matter the more it seems likely that the interest in this thread will dissipate and the hold outs will just keep holding out until the next round starts the process all over again.

We are an inconsequential player base whether we stay or go wouldn't harm EAs profit. Our best hope for the play style we want may now fall on the shoulders of Lord British.

 

[Renyard Foxenwyle]

Maybe he has quietly reacquired the rights to the Ultima franchise and all this hoopla over LB's artifacts is just a way to bring him back into the game I know, keep dreaming.

Curiouser and Curiouser am I to see what RG will bring about via portalarium. I'm already addicted to Sweet A@@ Poker.

 

[Evlar]

Well, I'll certainly be keeping my eyes peeled in both directions.

I'll be looking at RG and Portalarium, to see what they come up with.

I'll be looking at the boards here, for any positive news regarding Siege and Classic options.

To be quite frank though, looking at the Attn Devs: Siege Needs Your Help!! thread, with the distinct lack of input from any of the devs, I am rather sceptical. At the very least, one of them could have popped into that thread and made a quick "it's on our list" comment. That at the very least, would have given the Siege players some hope.

Perhaps what's more concerning for them, may be that at least in the original Classic thread, we had some comments from Cal... one probably taken out of context by many, another that seemed to give some faint hope to the cause.

Ultimately, as with many areas of the game as a whole, I think that people are looking for more long-term answers to their many questions. Take the feedback to some of the recent publishes for example. Many players feel like changes just drop on them, with little to no advance warning. They don't feel like they've had any input or consultation before changes are made. I find that quite worrying, especially in the context of what's a niche game, rather than a market leader.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

I wouldn't put a lot of emphasis on whether or not the devs have dropped into the forums on the subject of a Classic Shard, or Siege, recently. Their plates have been pretty full with Pub 66, and the resultant bugs they have had to deal with.

As someone that has worked in development environments, I know that publish times are hectic.

Give them a couple of weeks to let things settle down...I am sure someone will drop in and say something in that Siege thread.

 

[Evlar]

Aye, but really, how long does it take to...

[Click - Quick reply to this message]

"We've not forgotten about you, just things are really busy atm..."

[Click - Post quick reply]

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Fair enough, but I think the devs have bigger priorities at the moment than appeasing a few players on a message board.

Like I said, give them a few days...I am sure we will hear something, at least about Siege.

 

[Dakkon Blackblade]

I'm just going on the history of the topic as Evlar pointed out in a 24 hour day it doesn't take much effort to quick reply. I feel fairly confident in saying that most of us would rather have a yes or no rather than more "hope for the future" type posts.

It really is all about perspective though, and yes we are a minority on stratics and in the game I imagine. Also hearing about Siege is well and good for Siege players, but changes nothing for us, then again what choice do we have but to keep waiting.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Well, they pretty much said that a Classic Shard was not on the short list, so I would expect that it is going to be some time before we hear anything definite on this subject.

Also, and this may not be popular, but I believe that since Siege was here first, that it deserves attention first. Siege has players, current players, that need dev attention...and I think they should get it.

Besides, I don't really want the Classic Shard to start up without the anti-scrpiting/anti-cheating measures in place anyway...so I can be patient...for now

 

[Derium of ls]

Besides, I don't really want the Classic Shard to start up without the anti-scrpiting/anti-cheating measures in place anyway...so I can be patient...for now

/signed

 

[Babble]

To change the topic.
We sort of agree that a classic server would remain constant in the rules.
So what sort of content would you propose (story lines, EM's ...) to keep people staying with such a server.
Or would it be feasable to hand the players more tools to provide content? Is there a chance for volunteers as seers?

Or should it just remain static with no content only player driven?

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

I'd love to see a Classic Shard that had more player run content. I am not really a big fan of Seers/EMs being involved, because these things tend to run afoul with favoritism and corrupt behavior (giving certain players special items, etc.)

I think having events would be important, but I would really like to see them avoid some of the problems that have arisen in the past.

The perfect solution would be to just put me in charge of the shard, and let me run all the events

 

[Renyard Foxenwyle]

To change the topic.
We sort of agree that a classic server would remain constant in the rules.
So what sort of content would you propose (story lines, EM's ...) to keep people staying with such a server.
Or would it be feasable to hand the players more tools to provide content? Is there a chance for volunteers as seers?

Or should it just remain static with no content only player driven?

Personally I do not see the need for EM's and scripted EA produced content on a classic shard. Back in the day you didn't need it. We had the Shadowclan Orcs, we had PvP Tournaments, Scavenger Hunts, Archery Tournaments, Riddle Contests, Dungeon Crawls, Role Playing, house hunting and decorating, IDOCs, Auctions, Player run establishments....need I go on?

If anything I say make an "event in a box" style package for gamercodes so that those on the prodo-shards can't say we're stealing their precious EM's and scripted content. These codes would include things like semi-permanent banners and such for PvP contests that would remain static in the environment for 1 week then decay. They would be an inexpensive price, maybe 5 dollars, that way the classic shard can get unique decorations for their events and yet another revenue stream is generated for EA.

 

[Evlar]

Player creativity and inventiveness is entirely what has driven UO for many years. Some of the best interactivity and events have come from the players themselves.

I've mentioned before in the first thread I think, that I used to love a "fox and hounds" chase around the lands. I would bring on my role-play red PK, go kill someone I knew, leave a book on their corpse as the calling card, with instructions with where to start looking for me. News travelled fast amongst players and soon the hunt was always on.

I would carry a reward of some description, some more books to leave more clues, then players would hunt me down. Some of these "events", would literally last for hours. Ok, so only one person won the prize when they got me (if they got me ), but everyone had fun. Players would team up and share clues and sightings. I was quite good at evading, so sometimes when I spotted a group of "hounds", I would run past and then give them the slip. I don't recall the same person ever catching me twice, so over time, everyone stood just as much chance of catching me as any of the other hunters.

Good times... all of this in a single facet and not once was it ruined by griefers or PK's.

I also recall "running the gauntlet"... before Doom came to be of course It was a case of players placing bets how long my naked character could survive at Cove Orc Fort, evading the NPC orcs, player orcs and other PK's. See... pixel death has never bothered me.

Just a small sample of some of the things I used to get up to. That's not to mention things like auctions, PvP tourneys, field wars... which reminds me...

Had a little field war with a group of players once in the "Green Room" or "Green Pastures" as I called it, having managed to aquire a rune there. GM's actually let us finish what we were doing, before carting us all off to jail and confiscating the rune

 

[Renyard Foxenwyle]

Those type of events are just so much more fun to me than the few quests I did in heartwood? (big tree full of elves) and in that place that used to be Occlo. New Haven? I wish my connection was better here in Iraq so I could have given the trial a harder push, but what I played just made me miss UO even more....what little was left of real Ultima is almost unrecognizable in the current game. I would like to think I gave it an unbiased try, but seeing what we lost makes that hard to do.

 

[popeto]

Morgana LeFay (PoV) - you must do a lot of drugs and sit on the PC all day in order to post bricks of complete jibberish text that nobody cares about.

 

[Renyard Foxenwyle]

So, what would your dream player run event be? Personally I'd like to participate in an event similar to what Evlar was talking about. In fact I know I did somthing somewhat similar on Great Lakes. An RPPK guild we were at war with would do almost the same thing, leave calling cards and hints (in the form of dismembered bodies or just players they payed to stay there and tell other guilds what happend) as to where they'd be for the next hour to encourage others to fight them. Good times. They roleplayed necromancers and canibals so the trail of dismembered corpses was fun to follow.

Myself, I'd like to be able to recreate my Burnt Ember Inn. Didn't do a lot of events for the community but those around the lakes in the jungle west of Trinsic would drop in and we'd talk and I'd serve them their drinks or cook some food for them. Had a blacksmith who would help repair their gear. It also served as a the defacto CoB headquarters seeing as the house that had the stone was just a small fieldstone house north of britain.

If we do get our classic shard, one thing from the UO:R era I'd like to see is the houses. I've always had a place in my heart for the Villa as that is imo the perfect building for a player run inn or tavern. My favorite incarnation of The Burnt Ember Inn was a villa after the split...almost the same location in Tram as it used to be in Fel...only it was on Sonoma instead of Great Lakes.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Morgana LeFay (PoV) - you must do a lot of drugs and sit on the PC all day in order to post bricks of complete jibberish text that nobody cares about.

Awww...did I say something that offended you little troll?

 

[Renyard Foxenwyle]

Awww...did I say something that offended you little troll?

You threatened his belief that the properties based item grind is the be all end all of MMO gaming ...so he strikes out blindly at the one he perceives as the "Leader" of the classic UO movement.

 

[popeto]

actually I stopped playing shortly after AoS came out and to assume I am "wanting an item based game" is LOL worthy as a failed attempt at a rebuttle

No; actually....

what bothers me is that you and a few others YACK AND YACK AND YACK FLOODING this topic with complete unorganized DRAWN OUT BOOKS OF TEXT regarding the same topics involving classic shards that you have already beaten to death 30 novel worth of posts ago...


also your views on 'how the classic shard should be' are that of someone who probably never played when it was just one facet.
-- "OHH MURDERERS!! THERE SHOULD BE SOME SAFE GUARDS!!!" --
Already whining when the server hasnt even been confirmed by a developer - the same whining that ruined the game.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

actually I stopped playing shortly after AoS came out and to assume I am "wanting an item based game" is LOL worthy as a failed attempt at a rebuttle

No; actually....

what bothers me is that you and a few others YACK AND YACK AND YACK FLOODING this topic with complete unorganized DRAWN OUT BOOKS OF TEXT regarding the same topics involving classic shards that you have already beaten to death 30 novel worth of posts ago...


also your views on 'how the classic shard should be' are that of someone who probably never played when it was just one facet.
-- "OHH MURDERERS!! THERE SHOULD BE SOME SAFE GUARDS!!!" --
Already whining when the server hasnt even been confirmed by a developer - the same whining that ruined the game.

Who was this directed at? Me?

Like I told someone else in another thread...there is a sticky that most of us have agreed upon, besides the things that the devs put into the game, back when there was only one "facet" (there was no such thing back then btw)...what "safe guards" do you see on that list?

Your posts are laughable, and I am done with you.

+1 to ignore list.

Buh-bye little troll.

 

[BuzZzZ]

This thread died a bit

 

[Sergul'zan_SP]

I don't think a classic shard can exist without factions (they also solve the elder uo stat loss problem). I'd like to see Publish 15 UO.

I'm not objected to trammel either...there are people who do not want to PvP and that's fine. The facets should be closed off from one another, though. You shouldn't be able to farm in tram to fight in fel. If you are going to call yourself a PvPer, then PvP. Don't run to tram.

It would be great to have the enormous faction battles of the past again.

They should sell lifetime memberships to the classic shard to fund it. What would it be worth to you? I'd easily pay $200.00 for it.

Cal: Make it happen.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

This thread died a bit

Yes and no.

I think everyone has said about all that can be said about the subject. The devs are aware that we want a Classic Shard, and right now, they have things on their plate. So we are waiting.

I personally believe that a Classic Shard will happen...I think it will be pretty close to T2A with a few changes. I think it will be pre-AoS, and it will not include Trammel.

I am basing this on player responses, and the perception I have of the current developers. I could be wrong...only time will tell.

 

[Metalstorm]

Just a thought here.

Classic Shard would probably have to be classic client only as well.

With the Enhanced Client with the grid view for packs, you can't cover your inner bags with robes like we had to do in the old days to protect against thieves. When everything gets organized into grids you can't take security measures. If you use the old bag style, it doesn't mean the other guy is.

But besides that, if there ever is a classic shard it should have it's classic look as well.


Personally, I love the EC, But I stand against it for such a thing as a "classic pre AOS shard".

 

[Renyard Foxenwyle]

I've had to revise my position on Customized Housing. I don't know if it is indicative of the less mature members of UO leaving, or just that we have so much creativity within the community, but there are very few eyesores on Great Lakes, and many houses that I just wandered into and was amazed at the sheer beauty of it. Maybe there is a place for customized housing on a classic shard.

As for the EC, I feel what metalstorm is saying about not being able to protect yourselves from thieves, but totally banning the EC from the shard? I don't think I could support that even though I don't use the EC. Maybe there should be some server side call that forces you to use classic gumps.

One more thing about housing.....why the heck do so many people have to have the front of their houses lined with all those damn monster statues and other noisy items. It sounds like a cacophony of noises ment to annoy the people who come by to look at their vendors.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

The EC: Non issue as far as I am concerned. If someone wants to play on the EC...and they can...then so be it. As long as they don't complain that x or y got stolen from them. The EC has some advatages...although I cannot even begin to understand what they are...unless the player just enjoys terrible artwork.

The Classic Shard movement...as I understand...is not about clients.

 

[spade gt]

Still hoping for a classic shard!

 

[Evlar]

I've had to revise my position on Customized Housing. I don't know if it is indicative of the less mature members of UO leaving, or just that we have so much creativity within the community, but there are very few eyesores on Great Lakes, and many houses that I just wandered into and was amazed at the sheer beauty of it. Maybe there is a place for customized housing on a classic shard.

One more thing about housing.....why the heck do so many people have to have the front of their houses lined with all those damn monster statues and other noisy items. It sounds like a cacophony of noises ment to annoy the people who come by to look at their vendors.

I have mixed feelings about custom housing and any potential classic shard. On the one hand, I have enjoyed the ability to create some great looking houses, for myself and other people. It's actually one of the aspects of the game that kept me playing, daft as that sounds.

You're right about some of the eyesores though. I can understand the purpose and practicality of the square boxes you will see, certainly for people who have an incredible amount of lock-downs. I have used square box designs myself, but boxes with flair and features added to the designs. When I do a "box" I think of Victorian English facades that have a classic Greco-Roman influence to them. I think you get the picture... ledges, openings, columns and such. Other times I let my imagination run wild. The ability to create something that's truly unique is quite an attraction to the game.

As for looking around at houses on shards, I agree with you that on Great Lakes, there's a lot of bland boxes, but there's also a few pockets of superb and creative design.

If you get chance, start a character on Europa, then have a wander around. I'm sure that Mapper (moderator here) will be happy to give you a guided tour of some of the wonderful establishments there. Still a great may role-players there, so they design things to suit the lore and surroundings a lot.

Overall though, regarding a classic shard, I'm on the fence with custom housing. I love it, but only when it suits the surroundings of the world in which we play.

As for the EC, I feel what metalstorm is saying about not being able to protect yourselves from thieves, but totally banning the EC from the shard? I don't think I could support that even though I don't use the EC. Maybe there should be some server side call that forces you to use classic gumps.

One more thing about housing.....why the heck do so many people have to have the front of their houses lined with all those damn monster statues and other noisy items. It sounds like a cacophony of noises ment to annoy the people who come by to look at their vendors.

Just a thought here.

Classic Shard would probably have to be classic client only as well.

With the Enhanced Client with the grid view for packs, you can't cover your inner bags with robes like we had to do in the old days to protect against thieves. When everything gets organized into grids you can't take security measures. If you use the old bag style, it doesn't mean the other guy is.

But besides that, if there ever is a classic shard it should have it's classic look as well.


Personally, I love the EC, But I stand against it for such a thing as a "classic pre AOS shard".

The EC: Non issue as far as I am concerned. If someone wants to play on the EC...and they can...then so be it. As long as they don't complain that x or y got stolen from them. The EC has some advatages...although I cannot even begin to understand what they are...unless the player just enjoys terrible artwork.

The Classic Shard movement...as I understand...is not about clients.

Personally, I'm indifferent about usage of different clients with a classic shard. Clearly different people prefer different aspects of their favoured client.

With the exception of Kingdom Reborn (only because of continual crashes, even with a decent system), I've liked and enjoyed using all the clients for their own particular merits. In the more recent client offerings, it's the user interface additions I like the most. Anything that enhances the gameplay experience, without detracting from the heart of the gameplay itself, is always beneficial to my mind.

I don't play UO for snazzy graphics, as far as that's concerned, it's WYSIWYG. One aspect of my anti-AoS perspective though, is that I simply believe that current UO is a mess when it comes to the added item content since AoS launched. Different developers have offered different input. Some great, some good, but some downright awful. I'm not particularly keen on the neon colours, but I'm not against them totally. If they're a true rarity, then they offer a form of individualism when players are building characters. When everyone is using the current "favourite" dye though, I think things just look daft.

What I'm most interested in, more than anything else and irrespective of clients, is the meat and drink... the gameplay itself. That's what I yearn the most and what for me, UO has lost the most over the years.

Just out of interest though Morgana... if we were offered a classic shard, but you could only play it via the enhanced client, would you still be up for it? My own thinking here is that without the neon colours and a lot of the, shall we say "lesser quality" item content, it might actually look more like the classic client graphically, in many respects.

 

[eekamouse]

Just out of interest though Morgana... if we were offered a classic shard, but you could only play it via the enhanced client, would you still be up for it? My own thinking here is that without the neon colours and a lot of the, shall we say "lesser quality" item content, it might actually look more like the classic client graphically, in many respects.

I would in a heartbeat. This is the best path imo.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Just out of interest though Morgana... if we were offered a classic shard, but you could only play it via the enhanced client, would you still be up for it? My own thinking here is that without the neon colours and a lot of the, shall we say "lesser quality" item content, it might actually look more like the classic client graphically, in many respects.

Sadly...no. I would just quit or play on a freeshard. Unless/until the EC's graphics are fixed...specifically the character and monster models...I have no use for it whatsoever. If others like it, it's nice that they have a choice...and while I could go on and on about many resources were "wasted" on the EC, KR, and 3D...I won't. Just because I don't care for it doesn't mean that other players shouldn't have the option of using it.

 

[eekamouse]

...the EC's graphics are fixed...specifically the character and monster models....

For the record, I agree with this 1000%.

 

[Renyard Foxenwyle]

I just thought of one other thing that might hamper a classic shard's growth and stability. Housing. I think that a classic server will bring in some new accounts. Hell just the possibility of there being one convinced me to re-open now two of my 5 accounts. I am playing on the Great Lakes shard and have placed two large towers. I think that a lot of players would like to have a house on their regular production shard, as well as a "specialty shard" such as Siege, Mugen (sp?) or a Classic shard. I would like to see housing rules revised so that you could have 1 house per account on the regular production shards, and 1 per account on the Specialty shards.

Would having to leave behind two towers make me not play the Classic Shard? No, my towers are empty at the moment because I am rebuilding my characters, but if I had been playing non-stop for the last 12 years? I think it would cause a lot of people who don't like the AoS style of item based gameplay to not come to a classic server simply because they would have no home.

I know I know, they can get a new account....or they could make a purchasable token that would grant you an extra house slot on a shard by shard basis. You could by the token for money then log onto a new shard and use it thus gaining housing on another shard. You would not be able to use it on the shard you currently have housing on to get extra housing slots on that shard.