Banned and house deleted

[Faerunner]

pretty neat considering they cant spell VIA correctly either.

The whole response gets posted and you're trying to call them wrong based on a typo? In case you haven't noticed, the b and v keys ARE right next to each other... and at least they capitalize!

Honestly if they say it was verified I'm gonna believe it. The other side (players) haven't proven anything to me yet other than that they have a few friends who will defend them. Even criminals have friends - it's still no assurance that they are "good people".

 

[Xrenos]

http://www.uoherald.com/news/ is updated. There is a possibility for those who were hit by ban to fill a form to get more information on the incident.

 

[Sheridan]

From the UO Herald:

Accounts Terminated
Jeremy Dalberg - 04 Aug 2008 13:25:35
Over the weekend, a number of accounts associated with creating and trading duped items have been banned. We take all forms of cheating extremely seriously, especially cheats that affect the in game economy and devalue the hard work of honest players. We will never stop investigating and solving these issues, and appreciate very much those of you who contribute to the fight against cheating.

If your account was affected and you need more information, please fill out the form here.

...we do not discuss account issues with anyone but the account holder. Therefore, I'm not going to talk about your account or any other here on Stratics.

 

[AEowynSP]

"I Did not have verite and valorite hammers, never, in my 8 years of gameplay. I had not any illegal items on my account - everything I had was gained by hands, fighting monsters.

Statement: "Sufficient evidence was verified to justify this termination."
Is B*** S****,
they just ban those who are rich hoping they hit cheaters."

They got an old friend of mine too. Account banned house deleted.
The truly sad part is I know for a fact he's totaly innocent and the house was a guild supply hall holding the riches and history of many years.
Nothing on the "prohibited items" list, no runics and very little in the way of gold.
This is a Siege player who dosn't even use UOA so he couldn't be accused of an illegal program or scripting in any way. No x sharding either. He and all his friends are baffled how this could have happened.

 

[Basara]

Had castle, gold, rares, artifacts, alot of them.

I Did not have verite and valorite hammers, never, in my 8 years of gameplay. I had not any illegal items on my account - everything I had was gained by hands, fighting monsters.

Note the direct contradiction between these two statements.

It would seem that Xrenos is conveniently overlooking the fact he bought a lot of his rares - and the likelihood that many of those he purchased were most likely dupes.

Rares are "rares" for a reason. Many of them are 1 per shard, or 1 of a kind from events.

Xrenos' banning is probably a case of self-inflicted "rose-colored glasses" concerning the source of his rares.

 

[Otis Firefly]

i made more then 300 mil just from rubble from magincia and rift pillars....
the amount of gold someone has is no reason to be screaming cheat!!

 

[Lady_Mina]

I made 60mill in three days when the turn ins started for the 100%lrc suits. I saved every cursed artie i had and all the spawn drop items over the past two years...i turned in enough for two full suits and sold them at 30 mill each. 300 mill in three years is easy if you know your buyers and market.

Wich is nice...but if people payed you in duped checks...then you're screwed.

You see this 'system' can affect everyone...without knowing it.

 

[Beldon]

Wich is nice...but if people payed you in duped checks...then you're screwed.

You see this 'system' can affect everyone...without knowing it.

Cash check and make a new check... unscrewed

 

[Xrenos]

Note the direct contradiction between these two statements.

It would seem that Xrenos is conveniently overlooking the fact he bought a lot of his rares - and the likelihood that many of those he purchased were most likely dupes.

Rares are "rares" for a reason. Many of them are 1 per shard, or 1 of a kind from events.

Xrenos' banning is probably a case of self-inflicted "rose-colored glasses" concerning the source of his rares.

There is no contradiction between my statements.
Saying rares i meant 2 sets of tokuno dyes, small amount of tokuno arties, almost all zoo revards, stuff from tokens like fire resist plate pants and fountains (30 fountains), Ancient wyrm heart, and spring cleaning stuff worth 4,5mil points, crystaline ring, inquisitors and 103 gold checks 1 million each. That is all significant I can remember now.

Items I got myself: dyes, zoo revards, stuff from tokens including fountains, heart. Fighting monsters, donating pets to zoo, receiving tokens with my accounts these few times they were given.
To get 4,5mil spring cleaning points I used mine and my inactive friends' accounts (7 in total including mine), donated crap arties and crap stuff I started collecting after spring cleaning was announced.
Bought both crystalline and inquisitors 1,5 years ago for my rebuilded character.
The gold i got from monsters, and selling stuff like rubble, crimsons, arties and so on, those items i got myself from event and monsters.

I did not have any kind of 1-per-chard rare, unique event items or coloured glasses you mention. That is the reason of starting of this thread - I DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT ITEM OF MINE WAS ILLEGAL, I HAVE NO IDEA WHY WAS I BANNED APART FROM IDEA THAT IT WAS A MISTAKE. All i ask EA is: PLEASE INVESTIGATE MY CASE AND REALISE THAT IT WAS A MISTAKE!

 

[AEowynSP]

Indeed!
The only thing I can think of if this was not a mistake on OSIs part is he had some item from IDOC loot that he was unawear of being illegal, and perhape even unawear of owning.

 

[Dor of Sonoma]

Edit: Never mind.

 

[Lady_Mina]

Cash check and make a new check... unscrewed

Most people don't cash their checks...

If the check is duped..don't you think the code of the money that comes out of the check will tell if it's duped or not?

 

[SeaCaptain]

Sometimes I feel like they are treating the problem much the way a doctor would cut the arm off to save the body when only the hand is infected. If you are honest I hope you can get it worked out. That is why I hardly ever buy anything off of vendors unless I know that person even then I question it.

 

[Lady_Mina]

problem is veteran that come back to UO are unaware of the duping crisis UO is going through.

So they come back to UO...still have a few mills on their back..
Place a house...buy some stuff from vendors...since trading at the bank is no longer and option..

After HOURS of running around to find a shop with vendors that aren't empty..

You buy armor pieces and some deco for your new house.

And the morning after you're banned for "exploiting''..

Not everyone checks the boards...i wasn't even aware that UO had a duping problem...when i came back to UO...

 

[Beldon]

Cash check and make a new check... unscrewed

Most people don't cash their checks...

If the check is duped..don't you think the code of the money that comes out of the check will tell if it's duped or not?

Not, it should create a new ID number. I also think it would be hard to trace duped items. I think they look for lots of high end items appearing on an account without any logical reason for them being there. Theo GL said it best in another thread. Hope you know which one I don't want to look for it.

 

[FarausKarzak]

i got the same canned answer.... but hey theres something else in life than uo... im just feeling down to see that i screwed 8 years giving my real money to these CHEATS.

Ive lost totally my respect to all the UO staff.

You working on solving IT????

you should close down the servers. Youre lack of bright solutions ran off a few years ago.:bowdown:

 

[Lady_Mina]

You could always slap EA Mythic in the face by joining WoW..

 

[Sadoul]

"I Did not have verite and valorite hammers, never, in my 8 years of gameplay. I had not any illegal items on my account - everything I had was gained by hands, fighting monsters.

Statement: "Sufficient evidence was verified to justify this termination."
Is B*** S****,
they just ban those who are rich hoping they hit cheaters."

They got an old friend of mine too. Account banned house deleted.
The truly sad part is I know for a fact he's totaly innocent and the house was a guild supply hall holding the riches and history of many years.
Nothing on the "prohibited items" list, no runics and very little in the way of gold.
This is a Siege player who dosn't even use UOA so he couldn't be accused of an illegal program or scripting in any way. No x sharding either. He and all his friends are baffled how this could have happened.

I'm kind of wondering if the people in charge of finding the duped hammers know the difference between a valorite RUNIC hammer and a normal smith hammer crafted with valorite ingots. I can see someone making an honest mistake setting up the database search criteria. Just speculating. I am not quite sure what to think of this whole thing. It sure looks like the same program that handles in-game GM responses is also used for account disputes. I am sure there are a number of innocents involved just based on OSI's history. Sorry to all of you that are.

 

[blust4]

I play(ed) on Europa chard.

Two days ago my account was banned, castle deleted. Account info states that im banned according to p.19 of eula "exploits". I am absolutely sure this is a big mistake, because I have never used any exploits. Any investigation, for exampe analysis of recorded actions on all my characters since 2001, will prove that. I have never reported any bugs (because I dont know any), I have bought only few pieces of armor and weapons from player vendors and necro mark of travesty during last year. I am absolutely sure that my castle didn't have any illegal items, because all the rare stuff I had there were collected by me, by hands, fighting monsters, since 2001. And there were alot of items...

During two days (!) I wrote half dozen emails to EA customer service, got the robot responce that my problem now has a number and as soon as possible investigation will go on. Still got no other response. Seems like nobody in customer support is investigating this incident. They do not answer questions "why I was banned", "what exploit I am accused at", "how does investigation go", nothing. Made phone call aswell - they asked me to write emails because they cant discuss account problems by phone.

Two reasons of this ban that come to my head are:
1: Mistake
2: I was too rich. I've put alot of time and effort in Ultima Online, my God, since 2001. Had castle, gold, rares, artifacts, alot of them. Somebody in EA could think that accumulating this amount of "expensive" stuff cannot be acquired without exploits, and then EA "supposed" that I am guilty, but hey, its the same as "1: Mistake"

In this post I intentionnaly block my emotions and write only facts. 8 Years of gameplay. Invested time in gathering gold and items cannot be calculated. Building characters. Moderating and newsmaking on biggest russian official UO resource web page since 2001. Everything has gone in one blast, by mistake. And no answer from customer support on "why", "how" and "what" questions, totally ignored. Apart of making me really mad, it makes me really sad, and I cant understand what can I do, so I post here. If there is any chance that EA representative reads these forums, please, check the state of "EA Customer Support Request [Incident: 080801-010838]" - this number I got in authomatic response.

I cannot answer a quiestion I asked myself: What is the reason of playing this game if I collect gold, train character, achieve something, and the next day it is deleted?

If I were running EA, I wouldn't ban any paying customer. I will just delete any duped item and leave a note on its place,

"Your <item>(such as a valorite runic hammer) is an illegally duped item and has been deleted."

It is not hard to scan all items and sorting according to their IDs, then put all sorted items on a queue. On the top of the queue, if multiple items have the same ID, just delete them and replace them with the notices. If the top of the queue has different id from the next item. it is safe to remove the top of the queue and move the next item to the top of the queue.

I will shut down one morning a week just to scan all items, probably Tuesday or Wednesday morning. This is the easiest way and fair to everybody. If you accidentally bought a duped item, you waste your gold. If you are an exploiter, all your inventory will be gone after the weekly scan. It is that simple. I am a programmer. I know this can be easily done.

 

[Radun]

If I were running EA, I wouldn't ban any paying customer.

thank God you're not

 

[blust4]

If I were running EA, I wouldn't ban any paying customer.

thank God you're not

What do you think about every crime is met with death penalty?

 

[Lady Lava]

I find the replies to the amount of gold one can amass very interesting. In the past 12 months I have gotten 14 Crimmys fighting creatures and they sell for 14-15 mill each on Great Lakes.
That is 175 mill from just selling Crimmys in one year and I do much more that merits reward.

I have played for many years, own three plots in Luna proper and have a handful of server births that I have had for over 6 years.
It is a scary thing thinking that because you own a lot or have a lot of gold you could be considered a criminal.

Though I have been a Stratics reporter for many years, played UO even more years, I must be honest in saying that I would not know a duped from a non duped item. Once I was wearing a kilt that was a gift and it is a most exciting mustard/gold shade. Someone came up to me and informed me it is an illegal color. Not knowing if this is true or not I took it off and packed it away in a chest not to be worn again in fear.

Just because someone has been playing UO a long time, knows a lot about the game that does not mean they know everything. I am a perfect example of that.

 

[manufacturedsoul]

I play(ed) on Europa chard.

Two days ago my account was banned, castle deleted. Account info states that im banned according to p.19 of eula "exploits". I am absolutely sure this is a big mistake, because I have never used any exploits.

LOL.... Yeah right! Another one bites, another one bites, another one BITES THE DUSTA!

 

[Rosalinda]

What do you think about every crime is met with death penalty?

Wose than that - every SUSPECTED crime gets the death penalty! Dear heaven, we're quick enough to condemn this type of summary (non)justice in RL!!!!!!

Edit: oh right, I'll prolly get banned for saying that!

 

[Lord Kynd]

Uh, yeah it can. Don't assume that if someone has 300mil that they cheated in some way to get it.

it very well can and does.
i can attest to that as i don't cheat/exploit/script/dupe/heck i rarely even put things on my vendor at my house.
but i can tell you this much i have alot of stuff, you can ask Jeremey even, she has visited my museum.
this does in no way shape or form makes me a cheat.
it meens i spend to much time in game lol


but i did recently buy a barbed kit for 2 mil, seemed to me a fair price finally considering it's only used for display. maybe i should dispose of it ?

 

[Connor_Graham]

Most people don't cash their checks...

If the check is duped..don't you think the code of the money that comes out of the check will tell if it's duped or not?

No. A new item is created when a check is cashed then recreated into a new one.

 

[Xrenos]

Got same automatic response from EA customer support as others.

Discussion Thread
Response (EA Rep Otlan)
08/06/2008 05:31 AM
Greetings,

Thank you for contacting Ultima Online Support.

I am very sorry to hear of your account being terminated. However, you were found to be in possession of a multitude of highly illegal items in Ultima Online. Due to the severe nature of this ToS violation, your account was terminated. Sufficient evidence was verified to justify this termination.

Please be advised, we cannot give specific detailed information as to what items were in possession but be assured that we have fully investigated each case separately and found your account to be in violation.

The action taken against your account was just and will stand. If you would like to see any changes made to our Rules and Policies, please feel free to submit feedback via the UO Herald by visiting
http://uoherald.com/feedback/index.php

Any further replies regarding this subject will not be acknowledged.

Thank you and take care.

EARep Otlan
Player Relations
Electronic Arts


Mind the fact that EA cannot give specific detailed information on my illegal items, which were fully investigated in each case separately. Did they investigate? Not sure after this answer. This situation is ridiculous.

 

[Beldon]

Got same automatic response from EA customer support as others.

Discussion Thread
Response (EA Rep Otlan)
08/06/2008 05:31 AM
Greetings,

Thank you for contacting Ultima Online Support.

I am very sorry to hear of your account being terminated. However, you were found to be in possession of a multitude of highly illegal items in Ultima Online. Due to the severe nature of this ToS violation, your account was terminated. Sufficient evidence was verified to justify this termination.

Please be advised, we cannot give specific detailed information as to what items were in possession but be assured that we have fully investigated each case separately and found your account to be in violation.

The action taken against your account was just and will stand. If you would like to see any changes made to our Rules and Policies, please feel free to submit feedback via the UO Herald by visiting
http://uoherald.com/feedback/index.php

Any further replies regarding this subject will not be acknowledged.

Thank you and take care.

EARep Otlan
Player Relations
Electronic Arts


Mind the fact that EA cannot give specific detailed information on my illegal items, which were fully investigated in each case separately. Did they investigate? Not sure after this answer. This situation is ridiculous.

Assuming you are innocent for the sake of argument why would you even WANT to come back at this point?

 

[Xrenos]

Assuming you are innocent for the sake of argument why would you even WANT to come back at this point?

because I dream about justice and honest tech support actions for customers.

 

[wrekognize]

I feel sorry for you. it worries me, because I like you, came back to UO in 2004 to build as much as I can by spawning/ buying and tradeing. since ML was released I have done more peerless than I can count. On an average I do between 5 to 10 peerless runs a night with 2 of my friends. I've looted 11 crimsons, sold tons of darkwood sets and marks of trav. This has made me extremely wealthy along with my buying and selling. I have a castle, a Luna home and well over 500 Mil. I have never cheated at all, but now I feel like a target.

...

 

[Ashyn]

Any further replies regarding this subject will not be acknowledged.

LMAO! A basic human resource class would teach one that this is certainly not the thing to say to a customer.

Anyone who swallows that and continues to pay should be ashamed of contributing to the deterioration of "customer service."

Geeze, stand up for yourselves! Demand service by not supproting this type of thing - if you don't, you deserve whatever comes YOUR way, but in doing so you screw with those strong enough to just say NO!

It amazes me that a person will take anything dished out to them for the little bit of enjoyment they get from something. There ARE substitutes that provide just as much pleasure.

Any further payments to EA will not be acknowledged.

 

[RoycroftLS]

A basic human resource class would teach one that this is certainly not the thing to say to a customer.

You own a store. You catch someone shoplifting and throw them out. They come back to deny it, so being a nice person you review their case. You review the security tapes and yes, they were shoplifting.

You're implying with your version of customer service that the store should welcome the shoplifter back and hear their opinion if they ever return to the store again protesting their guilt.

That's not how it works in the real world. You get busted, you get banned.

 

[Pax]

The whole response gets posted and you're trying to call them wrong based on a typo? In case you haven't noticed, the b and v keys ARE right next to each other... and at least they capitalize!

Honestly if they say it was verified I'm gonna believe it. The other side (players) haven't proven anything to me yet other than that they have a few friends who will defend them. Even criminals have friends - it's still no assurance that they are "good people".

Guilty until proven innocent?

 

[Pax]

That's not how it works in the real world. You get busted, you get banned.

Okay. Busted with what? Banned for what?

 

[RoycroftLS]

Okay. Busted with what? Banned for what?

EA has ZERO obligation to tell anyone why they were banned. You gave up the right to know when you agreed to their terms of service.

In fact, telling anyone what they were banned for would make it more difficult for them to catch cheaters in the future. "oh, I got banned for 30 duped items this time, let's try 25 next time and see if I get away with it"

If you feel that the terms of service are unfair, you are welcome to terminate your contract with EA by cancelling your account. A fair bit of warning though, every other game out there has the same basic terms of service and is just as unwilling to discuss specific reasons for banning people.

 

[Pax]

Okay. Busted with what? Banned for what?

EA has ZERO obligation to tell anyone why they were banned. You gave up the right to know when you agreed to their terms of service.

In fact, telling anyone what they were banned for would make it more difficult for them to catch cheaters in the future. "oh, I got banned for 30 duped items this time, let's try 25 next time and see if I get away with it"

If you feel that the terms of service are unfair, you are welcome to terminate your contract with EA by cancelling your account. A fair bit of warning though, every other game out there has the same basic terms of service and is just as unwilling to discuss specific reasons for banning people.

Okay. Could you please point me to the section in the TOS that lists what types of items are being duped?

 

[Revenant2]

EA has ZERO obligation to tell anyone why they were banned. You gave up the right to know when you agreed to their terms of service.

In fact, telling anyone what they were banned for would make it more difficult for them to catch cheaters in the future. "oh, I got banned for 30 duped items this time, let's try 25 next time and see if I get away with it"

If you feel that the terms of service are unfair, you are welcome to terminate your contract with EA by cancelling your account. A fair bit of warning though, every other game out there has the same basic terms of service and is just as unwilling to discuss specific reasons for banning people.

Guys who post this kind of sentiment turn my stomach.

 

[Revenant2]

A basic human resource class would teach one that this is certainly not the thing to say to a customer.

You own a store. You catch someone shoplifting and throw them out. They come back to deny it, so being a nice person you review their case. You review the security tapes and yes, they were shoplifting.

You're implying with your version of customer service that the store should welcome the shoplifter back and hear their opinion if they ever return to the store again protesting their guilt.

That's not how it works in the real world. You get busted, you get banned.

Wrong.

They tell you what you supposedly stole. They say it right in court.

If the arresting cops etc. refused to identify the stolen object in the courtroom, the case would be thrown out.

Comparing EA banning people to the process behind a shoplifter isn't a good comparison, actually.

 

[Experimental]

EA has ZERO obligation to tell anyone why they were banned. You gave up the right to know when you agreed to their terms of service.

In fact, telling anyone what they were banned for would make it more difficult for them to catch cheaters in the future. "oh, I got banned for 30 duped items this time, let's try 25 next time and see if I get away with it"

If you feel that the terms of service are unfair, you are welcome to terminate your contract with EA by cancelling your account. A fair bit of warning though, every other game out there has the same basic terms of service and is just as unwilling to discuss specific reasons for banning people.

You'd fit right in with the other "customer service" staff at EA. Ever think of applying for a job there?

 

[RoycroftLS]

Guys who post this kind of sentiment turn my stomach.

Because it's the truth? If you don't like how things are being handled, no one is forcing you to stay.

 

[RoycroftLS]

You'd fit right in with the other "customer service" staff at EA. Ever think of applying for a job there?

I'm just stating the facts. People think they have rights when they have long ago given them up. They can whine and moan all they want, but it's something THEY agreed to, and they have every right and opportunity to stop agreeing with it whenever they want.

 

[Revenant2]

Discussion Thread
Response (EA Rep Otlan)
08/06/2008 05:31 AM
Greetings,

Thank you for contacting Ultima Online Support.

I am very sorry to hear of your account being terminated. However, you were found to be in possession of a multitude of highly illegal items in Ultima Online. Due to the severe nature of this ToS violation, your account was terminated. Sufficient evidence was verified to justify this termination.

Please be advised, we cannot give specific detailed information as to what items were in possession but be assured that we have fully investigated each case separately and found your account to be in violation.

The action taken against your account was just and will stand. If you would like to see any changes made to our Rules and Policies, please feel free to submit feedback via the UO Herald by visiting
http://uoherald.com/feedback/index.php

Any further replies regarding this subject will not be acknowledged.

Thank you and take care.

EARep Otlan
Player Relations
Electronic Arts

When I read through this communication, here's what it really says to me.

"Yes, you are a rule breaker due to possession of icky nasty items that we don't approve of. We've decided to cancel your account and we're not going to tell you which of the icky nasty items you had that we determined to be the problem. We don't want to hear what you might have said in your own defense and by not telling you which items were icky nasty, we don't have to.

So, ST*U and go away.

EARep Otlan
Player Relations
Electronic Arts"

 

[Revenant2]

Because it's the truth? If you don't like how things are being handled, no one is forcing you to stay.

Yeah let's all quit UO so that RoyCroftLS can be the lone, last guy in the game. He'll have to learn how to solo peerless and champ spawns and, well, he'd have all the luna property he could ever want, then!

 

[Experimental]

I'm just stating the facts. People think they have rights when they have long ago given them up. They can whine and moan all they want, but it's something THEY agreed to, and they have every right and opportunity to stop agreeing with it whenever they want.

When a customer has a dispute with a business and complains to the powers that be, any business that WANTS to stay in business and WANTS to continue getting new customers will WORK with that PAYING customer to resolve issues. EA is no different as a business than Sears, K-Mart, WalMart, Macy's, etc. etc. etc.
All businesses rely on advertising, sales and word of mouth from HAPPY customers to stay in business, even companies that make video games.

What is EA doing?
None of the above.

The type of attitude you exhibit in your posts tells me you aren't exactly a "people person".

 

[Pax]

I'm just stating the facts. People think they have rights when they have long ago given them up. They can whine and moan all they want, but it's something THEY agreed to, and they have every right and opportunity to stop agreeing with it whenever they want.

So you can't point me to the section in the TOS that lists the items being duped, can you at least point me to the section that discusses duping and the penalties for not just being the person who is duping items but being the person who has bought duped items, penalties that will be imposed on you even if you are unaware you have bought a duped item (or items)?
.

 

[RoycroftLS]

Okay. Could you please point me to the section in the TOS that lists what types of items are being duped?

Terms of service are written to be general guidelines to protect the company and its honest players. If they took the time to list every possible infraction that could ever get you in trouble, it would be so long that no one would ever read it.

But the responsibility falls on every player to obey all the terms of service at all times, even if the game itself isn't specifically designed to prevent illegal things from happening.

For example, does the game filter every single hate word/phrase? No, but everyone seems to have grasped that if you start spewing them off, you will get banned.

Does the game filter every duped item and prevent them from being sold? No, but it has been established that if you possess a large quantity of them, you will get banned.

In both cases it is the player's responsibility to follow the rules. If you don't feel that you are able to follow the rules, or that by following the rules the game isn't fun for you anymore, then send the one message that EA will undoubtably understand and cancel your account. Money speaks much more clearly than you could ever do on these forums.

 

[Revenant2]

Terms of service are written to be general guidelines to protect the company and its honest players. If they took the time to list every possible infraction that could ever get you in trouble, it would be so long that no one would ever read it.

But the responsibility falls on every player to obey all the terms of service at all times, even if the game itself isn't specifically designed to prevent illegal things from happening.

For example, does the game filter every single hate word/phrase? No, but everyone seems to have grasped that if you start spewing them off, you will get banned.

Does the game filter every duped item and prevent them from being sold? No, but it has been established that if you possess a large quantity of them, you will get banned.

In both cases it is the player's responsibility to follow the rules. If you don't feel that you are able to follow the rules, or that by following the rules the game isn't fun for you anymore, then send the one message that EA will undoubtably understand and cancel your account. Money speaks much more clearly than you could ever do on these forums.

I couldn't agree LESS with the spirit of what you're putting forth.

We're customers, not subjects. And we're only here because we're trusting EA NOT to do something nasty to us.

I can't figure out if you're serious or if you're a troll.

 

[azmodanb]

If you calculate how much game time it takes to get 5 milion in gp, it borders a mathematical impossibilty.

You can make 500K to 1M a day just killing dragons or WW's all day... my wife has a 500K+ goal a day when hunting with her Tamer, you can also get a pally and dragon weapon and do this ez... You can make an honest living just killing stuff. I would not call it a mathematical impossibility.

 

[RoycroftLS]

I can't figure out if you're serious or if you're a troll.

I'm very serious. People are getting so unwilling to take responsibility for their actions nowadays that it is sickening. If people keep complaining like this, at some point in the near future the game will just play itself after you log in so that no one could unwittingly break any rules.

The type of attitude you exhibit in your posts tells me you aren't exactly a "people person".

And since the conversation has seemed to degrade to personal attacks, I think I'm done here.

 

[Pax]

Okay. Could you please point me to the section in the TOS that lists what types of items are being duped?

Terms of service are written to be general guidelines to protect the company and its honest players. If they took the time to list every possible infraction that could ever get you in trouble, it would be so long that no one would ever read it.

The TOS lists only changing the original programming, something third-parties and dupers do. If you install a third-party and it changes the UO client in such a way it circumvents the legal rules, then it must be considered that you, the one who installed and are benefiting from the illegal third-party are guilty of changing the original programming in an unacceptible way, and you would and should suffer the same penalty as if you had actually written the offending code yourself.

However, coming into possession (either through purchase or gifting) of an item or items that were created in an illegal manner (duping/changing the original coding), without having personal knowledge that item was a dupe *in no way* violates the TOS.

In real life, when a person comes into possession of counterfeit items (currency/art/etc.), they're punishment is that the counterfeit item(s) is confiscated. That is the LEGAL response to possession of a counterfeit, unless the amount of counterfeit is so large that possession of it in such quantity comes under question. However, even in that instance, the burden of proof is on the policing body to prove the possessor of the counterfeit in question *knew* it was counterfeit and was attempting to *knowingly* pass/fence/profit from the item(s).

But the responsibility falls on every player to obey all the terms of service at all times, even if the game itself isn't specifically designed to prevent illegal things from happening.

For example, does the game filter every single hate word/phrase? No, but everyone seems to have grasped that if you start spewing them off, you will get banned.

Does the game filter every duped item and prevent them from being sold? No, but it has been established that if you possess a large quantity of them, you will get banned.

Laws are made to protect ALL parties, with special emphasis on Burden of Proof, with the accused being innocent until proven guilty... at least here in the United States.

In both cases it is the player's responsibility to follow the rules. If you don't feel that you are able to follow the rules, or that by following the rules the game isn't fun for you anymore, then send the one message that EA will undoubtably understand and cancel your account. Money speaks much more clearly than you could ever do on these forums.

I would hate to live in your world.

You can't follow rules if you don't know what constitutes breaking those rules. To be in possession of something that you got honestly and innocently is not breaking *any* rules!
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