An old text of Designer Dragons views on PvP

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

You talk as if I did not include everyone in my post. I mentioned those who are discontent with the way things are as well as those who are fine with it here:
<blockquote><hr>

There's a certain group of people who want a PVP only server and a NonPvP server.....etc.etc.

There's the rest of the world who are pretty much content with having a Fel and a Tram....etc.etc.


[/ QUOTE ]
Do you mean to imply that there's some other group of people? A third bunch?

[/ QUOTE ]

There is noone who want PvP only servers, that would mean servers with no monster spawn and with no crafting.

A PvP server will have everything a normal server do have but with unlimet PvP as a plus. There would be PvM players and crafters too just like on Siege.
A normal server would not be without PvP, but it would be found in guildwars, factions and duel systems.

People who want to control when to PvP would choose the normal servers.
People who don't like it safe, who want the game more exciting from never knowing if they get home safe will choose the PvP servers
Players who want to roleplay both good and evil chars will choose the PvP servers

There are several groups of players and they will be room for them all with 2 kind of servers.

If I had started after Trammel was born, I doubt this lady ever had learned to enjoy PvP and living in a virtuel world with evil chars chase me around to kill me and loot my stuff. I guess I was ended up ad a trammy.

Now I did start dec 1997, in a very wild and dangerous world. I had to learn to survive unless I would stay crying in town. Think it's like drugs, you get hooked. I miss all this amazing players I meed on my way, both the good and the bad one except a few I could be without.
I can't play on Trammel shards now. Trammel is far to secure for me, monster spawn do not make me excited. Also the good old felucca facet had changes, it's not fun now, it's a desert and players are more rude or scared to say hello.
Siege is the only place for me now, but we need to let some siege rules go so we can get more players. Players are what make me enjoy the game but not the kind of players at Brit bank Trammel or the dungeons of trammel, the risk is missing.
My crafter on Siege do never PvP, she may die sometimes but she do rarely try to fight back, is not skilled and dressed for fighting.
I had tryed to play my old Atlantic chars but Atlantic died for me when Trammel was added.
Atlantic did not need stat loss, and Atlantic did not need Trammel.
The anti PK's was able to make justice. They offend did keep the lower levels dungeons safe for the weaker players.
IMO EA destroyed a good shard, that was working as the devs wanted it to work.
A few shards made without non con PvP back in 1998 would had made a mega diff dor the future of UO

 

[imported_BlacK RaiN]

<blockquote><hr>

And it is so totally not true that Felluca Entertainment can not be created that would attract the Trammel players. The entire enchilada the hole 10 yards, the end game, is having fun. The most simple and natural thing for every single UO subscriber in the World. Just have fun, create a Community that is dedicated to everyone having fun. You do that and your shard will be so full they will need to create a new server.

[/ QUOTE ]

We've created that on Siege but, the growth is restricted by neglect and the spilling over of Trammel rules and philosophies into it. Whether by publishes geared to Trammel style game-play... to expansions.

We can't loot another player's killed corpse... at all. Nevermind going grey like you used to.

Beneficial acts makes it impossible for me to spar or duel in my own house without getting kicked out for flagging.

I can't raid someone elses UNLOCKED home because there's this invisible force field blocking anything that enters ::rolls eyes::

Orcs can't put on orc masks because the resists are garbage. Savages can't wear bone armor costumes.

we had blessed imbalancing gear on our shard for 4 years.

the personal bless deed fiasco?

So on and so on.


Now you see... before all this happened our shards were full. (not saying we don't love the content, we do... we love the new dungeons but not that they're instanced) we love the quests/events... but, before all of it...

What we're fed up with is having this awesome game... messed up because it's meant to be that world that you described... but, it's not allowed to be.

You see... when we have that set up but, since it's broken by design... who's fault is it?

When the developers are convinced they are/were giving us... the players, what we want... WHOS fault is that?

You tell me.

 

[Guest]

I quit siege for the sole reason that they were flooding it with trammie content and items and at the same time not balancing the effects. Lack of insurance and blessed items. Although I feel all items need to break a some point, in an item based game thanks to AOS we need to be able to keep our items as long as possible. With the lack of updates and balance tweeks for the server and the simple fact that ROT blows, NPC prices, NPC not buying, I had no choice to play pacific again not to mention I got the poopie stick when custom houseing came out and lost about 10 grandfatherd houses one being my siege castle. my mistake I should have read the fine print lol.

That why I will always ask for a Fell rule only production shard same content and rules as everyone else just minus tram. If that were to happen I would colapse my pacific castle and 2 18x18s delete all my serverbirths and other Pixel BS i have collected over my 9 years 11 months in a heart beat. and even start new. my best times in game was when I was a noobie pre tram.

 

[MysticLlamaFTW]

<blockquote><hr>

Now you see... before all this happened our shards were full.

[/ QUOTE ]

And that's about the most important thing... when I started playing in 97, when UO came out in Europe, shards were full, man! And people can toss around all the subscription numbers that they want: but today, a lot of the shards are devoid of players. I could go to ANY bank on my shard, and there were people. Same with dungeons. Same with roads (people actually ran to places).
New content is nice, but the player population has severely dwindled over the years, and now we're a few dozen players in the "hot spots" in the many lands. Players wanted to become more self-reliant, and thats exactly what the devs did for the game. People fix their own equipment on their crafter, buy from vendors, solo champions and peerless, farm named monsters for loot.
You CAN make the issue here about PvP and PvM playstyles. But in reality, with all the new rules, thats really no longer an issue, and never going to be. It just is what is has become over the years. And so is PvM. PvM became just as item based as PvP, where the goal is to kill as big a monster as possible with as few players as possible - to get the most individual loot. The way I look at it, UO is turning into a Massively Single Player Game, with occasional interaction between people.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

The way I look at it, UO is turning into a Massively Single Player Game, with occasional interaction between people.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT.

Its sad really.
At least we still have some form of PvP, where its community will never become a MSPG.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>


There is noone who want PvP only servers, that would mean servers with no monster spawn and with no crafting.

A PvP server will have everything a normal server do have but with unlimet PvP as a plus. There would be PvM players and crafters too just like on Siege.
A normal server would not be without PvP, but it would be found in guildwars, factions and duel systems.

People who want to control when to PvP would choose the normal servers.
People who don't like it safe, who want the game more exciting from never knowing if they get home safe will choose the PvP servers
Players who want to roleplay both good and evil chars will choose the PvP servers

There are several groups of players and they will be room for them all with 2 kind of servers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes I would hate to have just a pvp server. I think what the majority of pvpers want is a normal shard with fel rules. take siege slap it with prodo shard rules and you have a winner. although many hard core siege players would reject the idea of insurance but what if only what you can equip be insured? it would allow thieves to grab what ever in the pack secondary weap, or loot from farming plus players would be able to loot other things besides bandages,pots,regs?



<blockquote><hr>

A few shards made without non con PvP back in 1998 would had made a mega diff dor the future of UO

[/ QUOTE ]

I really feel the same way. and or a few made for non con on 2000 either way when they added tram and fel rules to coexist it was the biggest mistake in UO development.

 

[imported_BlacK RaiN]

<blockquote><hr>

Yes I would hate to have just a pvp server. I think what the majority of pvpers want is a normal shard with fel rules. take siege slap it with prodo shard rules and you have a winner.

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

We have a working economy because of no insurance. This would just be a big no.


Please... just no.

 

[Guest]

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My crafter on Siege do never PvP, she may die sometimes but she do rarely try to fight back, is not skilled and dressed for fighting.



[/ QUOTE ]
I snipped this part just to bring a point.
You don't mind getting your crafter PK'd and looted endlessly. That's fine for you. But many people do care. This is an example of why there is Trammel. It wasn't "fun" back then for a LOT of people. People were griefed and stalked, sometimes killed for no reason other than the other person thought it was "funny" to kill a defenseless smith.
Taking that into account and then admitting that this is not the same playerbase that existed back then and you'll see how absolutely impossible the game will be. Take a step onto Fel on TC and check out the mentality of the people who are there. It's no longer "people playing in a dangerous world" Freja, because it's made up of too many people who are just trying to get their rocks off and feel Superior in some facet of their real lives. For every "ONE" of you there are that'd like to live in this dangerous world there are "TEN" people that are not playing the same game as you are.

 

[Guest]

No I ment to say it could never happen on siege. And I was just useing siege as an example. I think most of the haters have a fell rule shard confused with a pvp battleground kind of shard. Siege is outdated and IMHO beyond repair. Things need to be fresh started fresh. A production shard with just a fell ruleset minus the tram landmass would be a start.

 

[Guest]

Just cause you 4 posters here didnt have fun dosnt mean others didnt had fun. And why deny others a viable chance at havin fun. You all have your realm of safety and greed let us have our own space that tailored around us should have been done back in 2000.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Just cause you 4 posters here didnt have fun dosnt mean others didnt had fun. And why deny others a viable chance at havin fun. You all have your realm of safety and greed let us have our own space that tailored around us should have been done back in 2000.

[/ QUOTE ]
Not when you're suggesting taking away production shards as they are now, no. Some of us enjoy playing both facets.
You can have "your" shard as long as it doesn't interfere with everyone else's.

 

[imported_Farsight]

The problem with having a PvP only or a non PvP shard is that most new players would want/need to start on a non PvP shard to get used to the game mechanics. After that, they would learn other characters and viable templates etc. When they're finished with that, THEN someone might decide to brave PvP.

If braving PvP meant they would have to start over fresh, most people wouldn't even try it. They would simply move to the next big thing and leave Sosaria behind. That's something they actually got right with Trammel and Felucca (as much as I didn't like it at the time). Now when people feel the need for more challenging content, they're free to do a champion spawn. When they feel like running the Doom gauntlet without being attacked by others, then they can do that as well.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>


My crafter on Siege do never PvP, she may die sometimes but she do rarely try to fight back, is not skilled and dressed for fighting.


[/ QUOTE ]
I snipped this part just to bring a point.
You don't mind getting your crafter PK'd and looted endlessly. That's fine for you. But many people do care.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sure I would mind that but why would anyone do that. She is nice to all, why should anyone want to be an ass to her. Dying is not really a problem for her, she do die to ore elements too and to Black Wisps.
Getting looted? She don't have much a PK want, maybe a little ingots, the last 10 mins work or so. It's no big deal and in many cases it's just the PK's way to say hello.

<blockquote><hr>

This is an example of why there is Trammel. It wasn't "fun" back then for a LOT of people.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't mind Trammel, I do mind that they added it to the good old shards instead of making new Trammel shards

<blockquote><hr>

People were griefed and stalked, sometimes killed for no reason other than the other person thought it was "funny" to kill a defenseless smith.

[/ QUOTE ]

Only time I was griefed was of two nasty blues, who killed my red, then offered me a res only to kill me again, they was laughing, telling me they did hope I got 2x stat loss. Sadly for them I did not have enough counts to get stat loss.
Red killers are not far as nasty as blue can be. You should try make a red char just to test it.

<blockquote><hr>

Taking that into account and then admitting that this is not the same playerbase that existed back then and you'll see how absolutely impossible the game will be.

[/ QUOTE ]

Keep in mind, I started to play 1997, I lived in the wildernes with both blue and red chars. I never played Trammel. When Siege was born, I moved to there.

I know what I speak about. I don't dream about making the hard core trammel players jump on the PvP shards. There are still players in the game who would choose PvP shards over Trammel shards and there are so many players out there, old UO PvP players and PvP players who play other games with old UO players.

Trust me, if done right, it won't be a problem to fill the shards. I don't expect you to understand it just like I don't understand or enjoy Trammel.


<blockquote><hr>

Take a step onto Fel on TC and check out the mentality of the people who are there.

[/ QUOTE ]

How can you compare TC to a PvP shard? Are the players on the trammel side of TC the same as on normal shards? Do they build community there, make guilds, rund shops and so on?

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

Just cause you 4 posters here didnt have fun dosnt mean others didnt had fun. And why deny others a viable chance at havin fun. You all have your realm of safety and greed let us have our own space that tailored around us should have been done back in 2000.

[/ QUOTE ]
Not when you're suggesting taking away production shards as they are now, no. Some of us enjoy playing both facets.
You can have "your" shard as long as it doesn't interfere with everyone else's.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really don't care what they do to normal shards. Should there be a wild Felucca or not, that's the Trammel players choice, not mine.
I just want to be sure there is no Trammel on the PvP servers

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

The problem with having a PvP only or a non PvP shard is that most new players would want/need to start on a non PvP shard to get used to the game mechanics. After that, they would learn other characters and viable templates etc. When they're finished with that, THEN someone might decide to brave PvP.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would they need that??
Alot games do have PvP servers. PvP players do not start on normal shards first. They are not 5 years old kids, they are gamers.
There was no non PvP server when I started, I did well and enjoyed the game so much.

I did try DAoC's normal shards, there was not yet any PvP servers. I found no fun there and quit again after a month. Then they made 2 PvP servers and I started on one of them with my guild UDL. I'm not much of a group person so
I did mostly hunt/train alone with a guildtag of a known PK guild. I did well, sure I did get killed, most becouse of my guildtag but I stayed for several months and had a great time.

I sharted on PvP servers in Linage2 and WOW too, there are no way I will waste time on a carebear server

 

[Guest]

Sweety, much as it may be a shock to you and a few others, I've played a long time. I've had characters red, orange, green, blue. Factions and non factions. Tram and Fel. I've had houses on both facets. I even have a crafter on the very shard you play on. I am speaking to you as someone who understands why people don't want to be bothered by the grief that does happen daily in Fel.
While no one was an ass to you, perhaps you're somehow special or something, people are asses everywhere. I have no idea why they do it, other than as I said previously, to get their rocks off or feel superior in their real lives somehow. I will tell you this. It doesn't matter how "nice you are to all", in fact, sometimes the nicer you are the more grief you get. You don't play enough on production shards to realize this.

Then you ask me.. "How can you compare TC to a PvP shard? Are the players on the trammel side of TC the same as on normal shards? Do they build community there, make guilds, rund shops and so on?"
Are you kidding? OF COURSE these are all the same people. There aren't people who join and play UO just to play on test shard. These are all the same group of players we are talking about. I realize you play one shard and only one shard. Many others play a whole lot of shards, including your shard and TC.
Sure they can make a PVP server. Lots of folks would make characters there, just like lots of folks make characters on all the new shards and on test center. I simply doubt there will be enough people making it their primary shard to make it worth the while of EA to invest the money into it. When push comes to shove most folks are happy with the way things are.
I realize you believe otherwise and there's no reason for me to argue with you about it.
Just remember, you have years under your belt and all the friends and support that goes with it. Many people (daresay most?) who play UO do not, and therefore the grief and harassment are a real part of the UO world for them.

 

[Guest]

You just dont get it WE Do Not Want A "Pvp shard" We want Fell Based Prodo Shards!!!! Even some tram only shards, and keep normal (current) Unchanged!!

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

You just dont get it WE Do Not Want A "Pvp shard" We want Fell Based Prodo Shards!!!! Even some tram only shards, and keep normal (current) Unchanged!!

[/ QUOTE ]
Umm I do get it. Apparently you just don't get it. Read "PvP shard" as "Pirate Ship" for all I care. We are all talking about the same thing.

 

[Yewish News]

<blockquote><hr>

I've had characters red, orange, green, blue. Factions and non factions. Tram and Fel. I've had houses on both facets.

[/ QUOTE ]

I smell [censored].

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

You just dont get it WE Do Not Want A "Pvp shard" We want Fell Based Prodo Shards!!!! Even some tram only shards, and keep normal (current) Unchanged!!

[/ QUOTE ]
Umm I do get it. Apparently you just don't get it. Read "PvP shard" as "Pirate Ship" for all I care. We are all talking about the same thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope, we are not speaking about the same thing. It will not be like Felucca. Sure the ruleset will be the same but that's all.

We are speaking about a proto shard where all facets do have Felucca ruleset, that do mean there will be alot of PvM's, crafters, PvP'ers, non PvP'ers, evere playstyle will be there just like they are on Siege or was before UO lost alot players.

Felucca as we know it now is not like old Britainnia before Trammel, it's only a shadow of what it once was.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

I've had characters red, orange, green, blue. Factions and non factions. Tram and Fel. I've had houses on both facets.

[/ QUOTE ]

I smell [censored].

[/ QUOTE ]
hygiene?

 

[Guest]

From the OP / DD's writings:<blockquote><hr>

On top of that, safe zones tend to be way the heck more profitable for everyone including the people who really ought to be playing in the danger zones, so the danger zones tend to tank, just like separate PvP servers do.

[/ QUOTE ]<blockquote><hr>

I used to think that you could reform bad apples, and argue with hard cases. I'm more cynical these days.

[/ QUOTE ]<blockquote><hr>

I used to think that people were willing to act communally for the good of the community. Now I know more about the Tragedy of the Commons and the Prisoner's Dilemma and think that people are mostly selfish.

[/ QUOTE ]<blockquote><hr>

I still believe that running servers themed around PvP or not is also a bit of a waste of time. The amount of wolves who want to play on a wolf-only server is way smaller than the total amount of wolves, and generally speaking, wolf-only servers are extremely underpopulated. You might as well devote those resources elsewhere.

[/ QUOTE ]<blockquote><hr>

My greatest worry is that instead, we've inadvertantly taught people to be bad as far as they can get away with. Or, far more troublesome, that Daddy will solve it for you and you can feel free to just complain about the problem from time to time, and ignore it.

[/ QUOTE ]- So, he is not in favor of separate PvP servers.
He sees the shortcomings of tram/fel zones as well.
Hmm, maybe a unified ruleset is what we should be striving for?
I bet non-con PvPers might dislike anything less than complete freedom to kill whomever, wherever. Looks like there is a conflict between that desire and what many game designers have come to realize over the past decade + of MMOs. I can only guess that is because they have solid numbers to work with and know what is most likely to generate income necessary to keep the game afloat.

 

[Yewish News]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

I've had characters red, orange, green, blue. Factions and non factions. Tram and Fel. I've had houses on both facets.

[/ QUOTE ]

I smell [censored].

[/ QUOTE ]
hygiene?

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not that familiar with her...

 

[Guest]

Could it happen he was wrong ?

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

You just dont get it WE Do Not Want A "Pvp shard" We want Fell Based Prodo Shards!!!! Even some tram only shards, and keep normal (current) Unchanged!!

[/ QUOTE ]
Umm I do get it. Apparently you just don't get it. Read "PvP shard" as "Pirate Ship" for all I care. We are all talking about the same thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope, we are not speaking about the same thing. It will not be like Felucca. Sure the ruleset will be the same but that's all.

We are speaking about a proto shard where all facets do have Felucca ruleset, that do mean there will be alot of PvM's, crafters, PvP'ers, non PvP'ers, evere playstyle will be there just like they are on Siege or was before UO lost alot players.

Felucca as we know it now is not like old Britainnia before Trammel, it's only a shadow of what it once was.

[/ QUOTE ]
We.are.talking.about.the.same.thing. The thing you are talking about is what I am talking about. It's so frustrating that you don't think I know what you're talking about. I cannot even begin to tell you. I am really about to give up on the entire converstation. If you don't think I know what you're talking about then what's the point.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

I've had characters red, orange, green, blue. Factions and non factions. Tram and Fel. I've had houses on both facets.

[/ QUOTE ]

I smell [censored].

[/ QUOTE ]
May come as a huge shock but I really don't care what you believe to be true.

 

[Surgeries]

<blockquote><hr>

For every "ONE" of you there are that'd like to live in this dangerous world there are "TEN" people that are not playing the same game as you are.



[/ QUOTE ]

As it was when the game began. So it is today.

Flutter...although I do get a little too testy at times, and really should just use my Ignore button more frequently, rather than try to use actual logic, to a fault...

You are absolutely correct.

You know it. I know it. The majority of people that play this game, and many others know it.

People like Freja, Black Rain, and others (not saying they are Bad, or anything, mind you)...are way too subjective in what they view as "Fun" to understand that most will simply not play the game they love so much.

They will quit first.

But you, nor I, nor an army of people like us (who do, indeed, exist, much to their chagrin), simply will never get them to open their minds enough to understand the one truth that is:

People can have fun NOT playing the old UO, the way THEY want it to be. And MANY will have MORE fun when they don't play the old rules, than if they DO play them, simply because of the aversion to the griefing.

Lord knows I have tried. I have tried logic endlessly.

One would think that eight years of history would let them know. That games like WoW, with MILLIONS of subscribers, that DOESN'T have anything CLOSE to the griefing rules allowed "Back in The Day" would let them know.

But they are so stuck on the idea that servers were full bacvk then, and aren't now, because of the Griefing Rules that used to be allowed, and NOTHING else, that they can't see the real reason that UO was so paopular then, and isn't as popular today, as it was back then, IMO.

It was NEW.

Pong was NEW at one time, and it was THE most popular video game, when it came out, hands down, than ANY game up to that time...without a doubt.

Pong had WAY more players playing it, than ANY other video game, EVER, at that time...period.

Well..until Space Invaders.

Then IT had more players.

And on and on and on.

You know it. I know it. Many know it.

Some people will just never be able to get that it wasn't the fact that a person could get killed by another player endlessly that made UO great, any more than it was Paddles that made Pong great.

Both were revolutionary, but it was nnot because of allowed griefing or use of paddles, that they were they loved by many.

And a LOT more people played Pong, more than likely, than EVER played UO.

I dunno. The freedom allowed by UO in choosing professions, skill advancement, et al, as compared to EQ...yea...all that matters, evenm today

I just think that those that love to fight other people more than anything else are simply blind to the fact that most people don't feel the way they do about gaming, and the reasons for gaming.

But maybe...just maybe...since Pong WAS so hugely popular...

Maybe they need to put paddles in UO?

 

[Guest]

- Of course it could.

But I tend to agree with him:
1 ruleset + 1 client = most efficient

Now, if we could merge the 'carebear' &amp; 'wolf' desires a bit more...
Wouldn't that be a win-win?
But alas, I fear it a very difficult task to accomplish. 'Wolves' want 'sheep' yet 'sheep' don't like it when 'wolves' incessantly nip at their shanks.

 

[Guest]

I do believe in building communities regardless of what EA does, that's why I still run a shop and tavern regardless of the nay sayers screaming "you'll never make it"

Often just to prove them wrong lol. I absolutely have that mindset. However, I am aware that each time new content arrives or a land mass opens up, players want to go there. Explore, get the items and so on. It's like when I run an event in my town and it turns out someone is running one in Tram the same night. Fel is perceived as dangerous anyway, but if you have carrots on the other side of the fence, it makes the job that wee bit harder. I'd like EA to understand the effect of doing that.

So I'm not saying that EA should do my job for me, only that I'd love if they could see the huge expanse in Fel as a blank canvas. Take the bit in their teeth and say "let's convert Fel's potential into a great facet again".

Tram players are as important to me as Fel ones. It's where new players come from, along with visiting RP guilds and around half of my customers

New Fel players come from Tram and I like seeing new faces.

I'm not asking for Fel to be the apple of EA's eye, just get a fair share. And if we get something new and different to the other facets (like Khaldun) then even better. But I don't think it's unfair to ask for at least equality for the shard that started UO off in the first place

Wenchy

 

[MysticLlamaFTW]

<blockquote><hr>

But they are so stuck on the idea that servers were full bacvk then, and aren't now, because of the Griefing Rules that used to be allowed, and NOTHING else, that they can't see the real reason that UO was so paopular then, and isn't as popular today, as it was back then, IMO.

It was NEW.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are right, in that UO had more players because it was NEW, so new indeed, that only EQ was its competition. It was new to everyone, players didn't know all the places, didn't know all the tricks - but more importantly, it was also new to the developers.
I know I've said many times that UO had more players back in the day.. but personally I never for a second believe that it was because "griefing rules that were allowed" - as you put it. It was exactly the LACK of rules against constant griefing that was the problem. The devs had a concept of how it could be handled, and players have been handing the dev's their asses back to them ever since the game was released.

I'm not asking for PvP servers. I want more player interaction - like was the intention of UO. I want to find a smith by the smith shop. My problem with how UO is being saved from extinction by the devs, is by leaving old areas behind, and creating new ones. "Oh, screw Fel, we'll just give them trammel... then give them tokuno... then malas... then the ML dungeons... and I'm sure more to come in subsequent releases. Old areas (call it tram, call it fel) are becoming less and less useful, save for the few hotspots.
The landmass is increasing, while the amount of players is declining. Why do people go to the boards so much? We used to meet in game.. guilds had their meeting spots in towns, crafters had the shops.. now we all come to these boards to babble, because we seek interaction with others, and because its less and less possible in the game.

UO, IMO, is like a huge family house, but all the kids are moved out, and it's only ma and pa yelling at each other from the opposite ends of a 20 seat dining table. Or, should they just eat at the smaller, kitchen table.?

 

[Guest]

We had tryed for 10 years without success.

However I did try to make a system a while ago

Freja's single unified rule set Freja's single unified rule set

I would still like a a single unified rule set included a PvP switch for normal shards

I don't believe many will quit if we make one unified ruleset for all facets, special not if we
add a switch, that will make it possible to choose to become a non PvP'er.

It will give some changing to flaging and one color more will be needed.

Players will start out as blue (PvP off).
A blue player can't be attacked of players they are not in war with.
A blue player can't be looted of players they are not in war with.
A blue player can't be stolen from of players they are not in war with.
A blue player can't loot a corpes killed of other blue players they are not in war with
A blue player can't loot a corpes killed of purple(PvP) or red(PK) player without turning PvP on.
A blue player can challenge an other blue player or green player to duel. This will be a
no loot duel where the player will raise with all their items.
A blue player will go grey from crim against npc's, but can't be attacked of players.
A blue player can't attack, loot or steal from purple(PvP) or red(PK) player without
turning PvP flag on first.
A blue player can't heal, cure, buff or res a purple(PvP) or red(PK) player without
turning PvP flag on first.

Purple (PvP on) and with PvP in their tag
Players can turn on PvP, the flag will then stay to they turn it off. There will be a delay of 5 min
after their last PvP action against reds and 1 hour after their last PvP action against
purple.
Attacking, stealing from or looting a red player will reset the 5 min timer
A purple player will gain 2x resources from loot or resource spawn and he will gain 2x
fame.
Healing, cure, buff or res a purple(PvP) or red(PK) player will reset the 5 min PvP
timer.
Looting a npc corpes killed of a purple(PvP) or red(PK) player will reset the 5 min PvP
timer.
Attacking or looting a purple player will turn a PK flag on and turn the player red for 1
hour.
I have a problem with thieves here, maybe they should get 1 hour red PK flag (where they now go grey from stealing from players)but will be able to hide it.
If they are in thief guild, the PK flag will only show for 5 min after they steal from a player. After the 5 mins, they will look purple until attacked. Attacking a thief with hidded PK tag will turn the thief PvP tag/color visible again for 5 min.


Red (PK on) and with PK in their tag
Old murderer count will be removed and red chars will get a 1 hour red PK flag/timer. If
in town when they login with old counts they will be teleportet to their house or the step of a house
they are friended/accessed too.
Attacking or looting a purple player will turn a PK flag on and turn the player red for 1
hour.
Everytime the the PK do a new crim against a purple player it will reset the red flag to 1
hour.
Attacking, looting or stealing from an other red will only reset the purple 5 min flag (The
red PK color will dominate)
Healing, cure, buff or res a purple(PvP) or red(PK) player will reset the 5 min PvP timer
but not the 1 hour PK timer.
A red can't go to town, guards won't allow it. Going red in town will be a bad idea.

Warring enemies (orange)
Purple players will look orange to warring enemies but with PvP in their tag and flash
purple each 5 sec.
Red players will look orange to warring enemies but with PK in their tag and flash red
each 5 sec.
Attacking a orange with PvP or PK tag will not effect the PvP or the PK flag/timer.
Healing, cure, buff or res a orange with PvP or PK tag will start/reset the 5 min PvP
flag/timer.
Orange can not attack each others in non Factions town. That will count for guildwars
too. Maybe a few more Factions towns should be added.
Players in factions will also gain 2x resources and fame but players in guildwars won't
unless they are PvP flaget too.
Faction will be active on all facets.
Factions taxes will only effect Factions players.

Other rules
In this rules below here I have some problems with orange and parties that need more works.

No trading between PK/PvP and non PvP char outside town unless in a house one of
them own or are friended too. PK's and PvP chars can trade just not with a non PvP
chars. The non PvP char will have to turn pvp on first.

A Non PvP'er can't pick up items from ground in the wilderness if placed of a PvP or PK char and can't
loot a PvP or PK corpes or creature killed of a PvP or PK char. He can choose to turn
PvP on to do it.

A PvP'er or PK can't pick up items from ground in the wilderness placed of a non PvP char and can't loot
a non PvP corpes or creature killed of a non PvP char.

No blocking between PvP/PK and non PvP chars or between non PvP players.

Pets would have same color as their master and same PvP flag. That mean a non PvP
pet can't be attacked and pets can't be traded between PvP'PK and non PvP' chars in
the wilderness.

Here is a problem with friended pets, think a friended pets color will be effected of any
friend/owner on screen, so if a blue owner and a purple friend to the pet are on the
screen, the pet will be purple for maybe 20 sec after the purple friend leave the screen

With this rules, we do not need the trammel rules, all facets will have this ruleset.

This will allow all chars access to all facets without forcing everyone to PvP.

Some non PvP'er will find it unfair, that purple PvP'er and Factions will get 2x
resources and fame, but it's fair enough, they can easy lose 50% to red PK's or to
Faction enemies.

Red PK's won't get 2x resources and fame.

If you logout with a flag and x mins timer, you still will have the x mins when you login
next day.

There will still be a problem with players macroing of the timer as ghost or in house.
Think it should be ok with the purple PvP flag but not with the red PK flag.

Maybe it should not be possible to macro of the PK flag as ghost or in a house.

Even when many will fear to go purple it won't mean everyone will attack them. They will
mainly have to look out for reds, most other purple won't attack.

With my idea, they can fight the reds, it will flage them PvP for 5 min but they won't need to keep dying to same PK, they can stay ghost 5 min before they rez.

I think alot love PvP in WOW because it allow them freedom to choose when to PvP and when not.

Some fear trash talk from reds. There will still be the options to put them on ignore, if you are blue, that should not give problems.

It would also be possible to add an options to translate reds speak to something blue can't understand.
You should be able to turn it on and off in options.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Lord knows I have tried. I have tried logic endlessly.

[/ QUOTE ]

your logic is always your sided. You give logic about PvP when its nothing you know about. Hence your "logic" becomes idiotology.

 

[Yewish News]

<blockquote><hr>


May come as a huge shock but I really don't care what you believe to be true.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey if you are going to speak nonsense about playing a PK then it's my moral obligation to point out you're full of the brown stuff.

 

[Guest]

That's fine as long as your side of the fence can admit that just because a person choses not to pvp it doesn't mean that they have never done it and/or don't know anything about it.

 

[Guest]

I made a poll about it a year ago

If we ever get different kind of shards ruleset, would you then?

The resultat was:

I would choose to play on:
Users may choose only one (146 total votes)

A shard with all Trammel ruleset, blessing and item insurance
23 / 15%

A shard with Trammel ruleset, no blessing and no item insurance
13 / 08%

A shard with all Felucca ruleset, blessing and item insurance
22 / 15%

A shard with Felucca ruleset, no blessing and no item insurance
31 / 21%

A Siege ruleset shard, no blessing, no item insurance
12 / 08%

A shard with a non PvP
12 / 08%

A normal shard as we have now with the split
18 / 12%

None of them or something else.
15 / 10%

 

[Surgeries]

<blockquote><hr>

your logic is always your sided. You give logic about PvP when its nothing you know about. Hence your "logic" becomes idiotology.


[/ QUOTE ]

Kaleb...listen...carefully:

PvP is FUN. No one can deny that. PvP is exciting.

Non-Con - COMPLETELY Non-Con PvP is ONLY fun to SOME. I do know this, because I likely have played longer than you have played UO...unless of course you have been playing since August 1997. If that is the case, then we have been playing just as long. But I do know about PvP...and I am very familiar with PvP prior to Trammel. I grew up in Brittania...no Fel...No Tram,mel...just Brittania.

That "Some" that love Non-Con PvP, and all that it brings obviously isn't enough of a "Some" for ANY...I repeat ANY game maker to say "Hey!! Yeah!! Let's do THAT again!! It was SO fargin awesome back THEN...let's do it NOW!!!".

That is the logic of which I speak.

The logic that says PvP, with no Dry Looting...No Killing Guildies...No Killing "People On Your Side" because you "Can"...can produce MILLIONS of subscribers...

Logic that says that PvP...the original way...MAY get you about 150K to 200K...TOPS...and ONLY if there is NO other game to go play, at all...

That type of logic.

It is NOT "My Logic"...it is "The Logic".

Otherwise, as I have said countless times...there would be nothing BUT Completely Non-Con Games. But that isn't the case, at all...not even close to the facts.

But again...there is no way you will hear of it.

Because although there are NOT 50 games with competely Non-Con PvP...because there ARE/IS games where you cannot lose a THING but time when you die...and you can't even get sh#t-talked by your opponent ...that DO have MILLIONS of subscribers...

Even given ALL that, with NONE of it done by me...just presented as "The Logic"...

Even given ALL that proof...you MUST be right...and I must be "One-Sided". *Nods*

Glad to see the open mind you are exhibiting.

Logic involves more than a set of blinders, kaleb...and those blinders are keeping you from being able to see it.

It's OK...I am used to it.

But it doesn't change the facts...Non-Con PvP...with Dry Looting...Thievery...Et Al...is NOT popular...not popular enough for ANYONE to use it as a basis for a game, and still be around, in that form...not even UO.

No One.

But maybe Darkfall will give you all that which you seek...

 

[Guest]

...

1 ruleset + 1 client = most efficient

Agreed, but we the posters will never agree what that 1 client and ruleset should be.

I have my own opinion with a LOT of studied reasoning behind it, but that doesn't mean I'm going to be able to convince certain other posters here.

 

[imported_Farsight]

<blockquote><hr>

...

1 ruleset + 1 client = most efficient

Agreed, but we the posters will never agree what that 1 client and ruleset should be.

I have my own opinion with a LOT of studied reasoning behind it, but that doesn't mean I'm going to be able to convince certain other posters here.

[/ QUOTE ]

But it isn't the posters you would need to convince is it?

Not that convincing the people who are pulling the strings would be any easier. You'd have to convince someone important that the one client with the one ruleset would bring in more business. That, in my experience, isn't easy in any setting.

 

[Guest]

...

I'm speaking in this thread particularly, not as far reaching as the developers or the management "suits" at EA/Mythic.

Basically saying that I know what I think would be best for the game, but I don't really want ti get mired into a constant tit for tat argument with one or two posters with whom I will never agree and with whom would trun into nothing more than reposting the same argument endlessly in a few different and later repeating ways.

 

[Guest]

I agree with a lot of what he says, especially the bit about level/class based stuff being a poor gaming mechanism.

But...

<blockquote><hr>

Someday we WILL be able to hand over the reins of policing to players.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's still vastly wrong about this.

Players policing an internet based video game is impossible because of one thing...anonymity. As long as people can hide behind their computers, some of them will go far out of their way just to harass people for no real reason, and anything players could do would be temporary at best. Sooner or later, the harassers win because people get sick of paying to be irritated.

It's hard enough for the company who runs the game and has access to IP numbers and account billing information to completely ban known cheaters because it's not that hard to hide who you are online. Regular players stand no chance at all.

 

[Sees Far]

Wow - what a smart person.

One thing I think should have been done from the beginning - if you choose to be a murderer, all your chars should go red, all the accounts on your computer should go red. Want to allow murderers in your guild? Fine, but the rest of the guild will go red after a time. Heal a red often enough, become one too. The sliding karma scale should include the blue, grey, red transitions.

As it stands it is too much like the RL charade that we all buy into, where people can be ruthless and callous in their professions, yet be considered good, upstanding members of a community in their home lives. Work for a company that deforests lands causing the upheaval of a 5,000 year old culture? No problem. Own stock in a company that causes the deaths of infants through their polluting ways? Not really YOUR fault. Support a politician who pushes for economic policies that will push a poor country over the brink of starvation, but will also cut your taxes? Hey, that's just the free market at work!

In our virtual world, murderers can just log on their blue char and reap all the benefits of an ordered society, then pop back over and kill, grief, and scam to their heart's content. It promotes the same twisted meme, and considering the number of hours some young people spend playing UO, I'm sure it rubs off onto their RL behavior and thought processes.

So, declare an amnesty where all who wish can start over being blue, and at the same time implement the new rules. Then see whether some new dynamics emerge once actions have consequences. Free choice, but consequences.

Now flame away.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Non-Con - COMPLETELY Non-Con PvP is ONLY fun to SOME. I do know this, because I likely have played longer than you have played UO...unless of course you have been playing since August 1997. If that is the case, then we have been playing just as long. But I do know about PvP...and I am very familiar with PvP prior to Trammel. I grew up in Brittania...no Fel...No Tram,mel...just Brittania.

[/ QUOTE ]

You only have 11 months on me but my first day I got pked, again,agian,agian, untill I was able to defend my self in fact it made me want to train more just just so I could pk the pk's it was the best time of my UO life i didnt want to be huddled in the group of people scared of a pk or 2 just outside town. You havnt pvped since tram so you really know nothing about PvP during UO:R and after AOS you know nothing about the pvp communities that are intertwined shard to shard(depending of time zone of course). but you always have to add your outdated "logic" to current events that or to just to try and troll every pvpers post. Im sorry in the early days you you didnt have what it took to adapt and fight back to be so emotionally scared today Its not my fault or any other pvpers that post here its yours.

A fel rule set production shard would not hurt your playstyle&gt; Set tram ruleset to false, set tram landmass to false, delete dungeon champ spawn areas.

People who want to exist in a Fell ruleset land are just as entitled to their play style and deserve a production shard and not Something like seige.

 

[Never]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

Because you did not have a good time back then, it does not mean I did not have a good time, nor did it mean I was one of the bad guys.

[/ QUOTE ]

NO FREJA!!! NO WAY!!! THIS CAN'T BE TRUE!

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe Atlantic was the only shard, where both red and blue had fun.

Even when I was blue and only fighted when attacked, I had a great time.
I placed my first house at the peninsula SE of Brit, shared it with Naraz who very fast went red. He may be better known as Tical.

East wood was not the most peaceful place so I learned very fast, that for each PK I made to a friend, I had one less enemy. They turned out to be great and loyal friends.

I have a list of some of the Dread Lords I meet on my way before the public that gave us stat loss and turned them all blue.

Blank Knigth, Felix, Zargar, Torm, BELiAL AOD, Shadow sword, Man O War, Nemesis, Kali-Mar, Mandarin, Quella Devin, Sir Richard, Win, Hummble/Gay, Devildog, DeathCry, Plug, Skyblade, Ishorn Fireash, FletLess, Steele, Malace, Photonic, Solonor, Kain, Krell of Eshin, Setra of Eshin, TomaHawk, Han, Lady Zen, Kiljox, Moleman, Raekwon, Malinko, Infernos, Flennetar, Arcinian King, Whitehorn, Lucas, Quaker, Wisbaus, Rye Master, Murlock, Cain, Beth, Crowler, Jules Savadge, Hagen Van Troja, Lady draghixa, Mescaline

I did not success making then all to friends, special WIN gave me a lot of trouble when he camped my house a few days to get me. He did not get me but I did not success getting in my house this days.
The ones in bolt become good friends, you may know some of the names. Plug and Skyblade was red anti PK's (Pluggers)
Steele did not kill female chars.
FletLess was guildmaster of BLB, I joined them after the Rep public.
I think I miss Man O War, Kiljox, Ishorn Fireash, FletLess, Krell and Setra of Eshin most

That time was my best time in UO, even when I was playing on dial up from denmark and lagged as hell

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow thats some Atlantic history there, brought back some good memories. Let me add a few Thyrm, Greybeard, Rundstat, Juggernaut, Kremlin, The Pluggers, Covetous Crew, AOD, Spawn, DOS - Demons of Sacrifice, Rager, The Mercs, Da Wrecking Crew

Just some names off the top of my head. Thanks for the memories Nemesis was one of my ICQ guildies

 

[imported_BlacK RaiN]

<blockquote><hr>

Siege is outdated and IMHO beyond repair. Things need to be fresh started fresh. A production shard with just a fell ruleset minus the tram landmass would be a start.

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't play both production and Siege.

I do.

I don't know how you could think it is beyond repair if you don't know how it works... intimately?

There's a list of suggested changes I and others have put together in order completely balance the shard to bring it up to date with our world, the item property system and Ultima Online.

Its well with-in reason and it's already there.

It should be fixed. All would be good again if it was.

People want to play a well working game. Not a buggy one. All this talk about WoW in this thread forgets to mention that one of the biggest reasons for it's success is constant attention. Bugs get fixed... immediately.

Oh btw, I was laughing at surgeries post.

He seems to know what a WORKING Felucca based game would of generated on revenue. He ignores the fact that UO's subscriptions were always increasing when it was Felucca only.

too funny.

 

[imported_BlacK RaiN]

<blockquote><hr>

The problem with having a PvP only or a non PvP shard is that most new players would want/need to start on a non PvP shard to get used to the game mechanics.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why in the hell can't the players make the choice? or even have a choice?

Siege Perilous isn't even on the Server list for newly created accounts. You have to be told about it and you can't even pick it unless your renounce your young status or wait the time.

On normal shards... players can't even be created in Felucca.


What if I don't want to be a part of "Trammel" at all.

Why do I not have a choice?

wth

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>


You don't play both production and Siege.

I do.

I don't know how you could think it is beyond repair if you don't know how it works... intimately?

[/ QUOTE ]

Um i did up till around 06 now if i log on its to collect rewards. I dont want to type this again so I will take from a post I made in another thread.

<blockquote><hr>

I played UO well before insurance. I played Siege from around 2000.5 - around 2004 almost full time, logging on every now and again(mostly collecting rewards)up till 06 but still played a few hours a week I remember my last battle chasing yoda around moonglow and out pops jade with her ninja tamer All kill!! HiYah!!oOoOoOoOoOoOoOo. but AoS items killed the fun in all of it the rich stay rich while the new and starting over remain poor. Aos items w/o some type of insurance in unbalanced for any new player on any shard in a potential pvp setting.


[/ QUOTE ]

 

[Guest]

Yes it was a great time
<blockquote><hr>

Wow thats some Atlantic history there, brought back some good memories. Let me add a few Thyrm, Greybeard, Rundstat, Juggernaut, Kremlin, The Pluggers, Covetous Crew, AOD, Spawn, DOS - Demons of Sacrifice, Rager, The Mercs, Da Wrecking Crew


[/ QUOTE ]
I remember a few of them too, the ones in bolt.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

On normal shards... players can't even be created in Felucca.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hahah on some normal shards On my 119mo account I still have Young players that when I log in im in Fel all have their practice weapons and noobie blessed gear lol.

 

[imported_EnigmaMaitreya]

<blockquote><hr>

...
Fel is perceived as dangerous anyway, but if you have carrots on the other side of the fence, it makes the job that wee bit harder. I'd like EA to understand the effect of doing that.

...

Take the bit in their teeth and say "let's convert Fel's potential into a great facet again".

...

Wenchy

[/ QUOTE ]

"I'd like EA to understand the effect of doing that."

Asking them to understand is an implication that one expects the to do something. It is the implication that is problematic. I am quite sure they are aware of and probably empathetic to the problem but what can they do that wouldn't reconstruct the repeat the mistakes in judgment that mandated Trammel?

Let us use a rather tenuous analogy. Let us assume a friend/one of our children, enters into a fight. We can intercede and be the active Force of Nature or we can stand on the side and let things happen. Any action on our part will be interpreted negatively, so the best course of action is an apparent inactivity. Or some can call it passive aggression. We can stand on the side lines silent insuring that rules do not change or in essence that the battle ground stays level for both contestants. For our friend or child to think we are not understanding or not there for them is simply in error.

Some what below your post and above this one, someone mentions the need to convince the players of ... Some replies that convincing the players is not relevant, that the need is to convince someone in power. This is so very wrong. The powers that be powers need to do what the players (not a player or a very small percentage of players want). This has nothing to do with what the Powers would really want. That was DD's way. He simply didn't give a crap what the majority of players wanted.


"Take the bit in their teeth and say "let's convert Fel's potential into a great facet again".

Again this is suggestive that the Powers actively intervene in the problems of Felluca. That they fix things. That they make it all better.

In my opinion this is the last thing anyone should want (sans game mechanic changes related to bugs). To me the greatest gift and power of Felluca is they gift to define itself, change the rules, to be what it wants to be.

Again a rather tenuous analogy, Playing a game of cards (Poker what ever). One is dealt a hand. One can either whine about how everyone else is getting better hands than you or one can decide to play the hand they are dealt to the absolute best they/it can be played.

In poker it is always about the people. In Online games it is always about the people. If they are being entertained (and you, me or anyone will fail if it is just you/me - if it isn't a community) they will be there.

Can a miracle happen if no one believes in miracles?

Can magic exist if no one believes in Magic?

Can we succeed if we look to others to believe in us?

I am sorry I am probably becoming preachy ...

Felluca needs to start believing in itself, to play the hand it is dealt and stop worrying about what Trammel has. That is just my opinion (and I am sticking to it

)

 

[Surgeries]

<blockquote><hr>

You only have 11 months on me but my first day I got pked, again,agian,agian, untill I was able to defend my self in fact it made me want to train more just just so I could pk the pk's it was the best time of my UO life i didnt want to be huddled in the group of people scared of a pk or 2 just outside town.

[/ QUOTE ]

Look...you need to understand something, and understand it very clearly.

Not Everyone That Played UO Liked The PKs...Liked to Fight Them, Or Liked To Stand Up Against Them

It doesn't make you better because you did, nor make anyone that didn't less of a "Player".

It just makes everyone DIFFERENT. Which they are.

I know you have a hard time with that concept, from your writings...and that's OK.

Not everyone did what you did, nor wanted to.

Many just logged off the game. And that is what caused Tram to be created...that is what instituted the Welcome Back to Brittania campaign...

I need to say it again to you: You were more persistent than those that just logged off, in wanting to fight PKs. But it doesn't make you Better, in any way, shape or manner. YOU Liked fighting back. THEY didn't.

Good for you

*Claps*

I tie flies. I have tied Tens of Thousands of them in my life, and fished with several thousand of those that I have tied, in hundreds of bodies of water.

Ever tied Flies? Ever tried and gave up because you didn't enjoy how tedious it seemed to you?

Ever tried ANYTHING that you thought "Holy crap...that is a waste of time, and I really don't enjoy doing it!"...and then stopped doing it?

Ever?

If so...and it is likely you have, indeed, done this...at some point in your life...then YOU have done what you expected others TO do...you stopped doing something you DIDN'T enjoy. And likely, for good reason...you didn't enjoy it.

Now please, please put on the Goggles of Objectivity.

How you feel about those things you DON'T like doing, and why you STOPPED doing them, is PRECISELY why you have no right to tell anyone else that they needed to do what YOU did...and practice day and nighht...over and over and over...to beat the PKs.

No we didn't.

Anymore than you should enjoy doing anything YOU don't enjoy, but others do.

And unless YOU enjoy EVERYTHING that everyone else does, and do it 150% every single time (like sky dive, deep sea dive, be an avionics expert, tie flies, knit, garden, box, do Ultimate Fighting, play chess, garden, babysit, raise kids, ET AL), then just sit back and say to yourself:

Oh! So...they actually didn't enjoy doing it like I did...the same way I don't derive satisfaction from doing X, and don't do that, myself...I get it...

and then we can be done with this...

<blockquote><hr>

You havnt pvped since tram so you really know nothing about PvP during UO:R and after AOS you know nothing about the pvp communities that are intertwined shard to shard(depending of time zone of course). but you always have to add your outdated "logic" to current events that or to just to try and troll every pvpers post. Im sorry in the early days you you didnt have what it took to adapt and fight back to be so emotionally scared today Its not my fault or any other pvpers that post here its yours.


[/ QUOTE ]

Well...I guess not yet.

I'm sorry that YOU don't have what it takes to enjoy ANY activity that you DON'T enjoy doing, Kaleb.

Let's do a list of UO Activities, and apply YOUR "Logic":

Have you:

Walked to every spot in UO?

Run 15 Vendors?

Run 25 Vendors?

Run 50 Vendors?

Owned a Luna Vendor House?

Done all the BODs for a Val Hammer?

Gotten 15 Crimson Cinctures by doing Peerless?

Done every Peerless?

Soloed a Paragon Ancient Wyrm?

Built every piece of furniture in UO, in every color available?

Collected one of every Mel Hair Dye?


And on and on and on and on.

Or is PvP your Main interest, and pretty much all you do?

I am sure we all very proud of how much and intently you PvP...but it doesn't make you "Better" or me "Emotionally Scared".

It means you and I like different things.

Are you emotionally scared of Knitting, if you don't knit?

Emotionally scared of bait fishing, if you don't enjoy that? Emotionally scared of Chess, Fly Tying, Lawn Darts? Hula Hoops? Holding Your Breath? Head Stands? Swimming the English Channel? Climbing Mount Everest? Arctic Swimming? or ANY Activity that YOU don't enjoy enough to pursue?

Trying to bully me, by calling me "Emotionally Scared"? You don't even know me. I don't scare easily. But there ARE things I just do not enjoy doing.

I like to PvP. I don't like Non-Con. I fought plenty, though, in the two years prior to Tram, so I have enough experience with it to know...I don't like getting jumped by 5 Reds, on my miner. Don't like it, and I don't need to. Glad you did

*Claps Again*

I am not sure if I am getting through to you here...but, I shall state the obvious, one more time:

There was/is a group, albeit small, of players that love the Completely Non-Con aspect of the PvP we were all handed when UO came out (with Dry looting, complete thievery, et al) . If you want to think you are bigger and badder than those that didn't/don't enjoy it, then OK...you are a real baddy, fo' shizzle. *Shivers* Oh ya...you scare most if not all of us "Trammies" with yo "Badness"...

That group wasn't/isn't big enough to warrant the attention of the Devs, nor any other group/company, because of it's size. And size DOES matter...particularly for Dev Time to spend, when compared to resources to allocate.

<blockquote><hr>

A fel rule set production shard would not hurt your playstyle&gt; Set tram ruleset to false, set tram landmass to false, delete dungeon champ spawn areas.


[/ QUOTE ]

You're right. It, in and of itself, wouldn't "hurt" my playstyle...but it WOULD be a drain on resources. If it were successful, and hoardes of wolves flocked to it...you would be in business. But they won't, and EA knows this. DD knew that WAY back then. Otherwise...face it...you would already have it.

But size DOES matter. And your size is too small, (of the die hard "All Fel No Tram" Group) and has been for almost a decade, to warrant further development. I will say this again...otherwise...you would already have it, if this weren't the case.

<blockquote><hr>

People who want to exist in a Fell ruleset land are just as entitled to their play style and deserve a production shard and not Something like seige.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well...keep telling EA just how MANY people would play there...and come back for it. They may be just as "Entitled", but unless there are enough to warrant the development, seperate code base, and maintenance, you are likely peeing in the wind, chap.

Maybe you are correct...but indeed, Kaleb, as big and bad a PK as you are...this will be a tough fight.

See...EA really knows how many play in Fel and Siege. You only see what YOU can see...and want to see.

I think you may want to brace yourself for another decade of disappointment.

Think you can practice and practice and practice, to overcome that adversity? Do you want to? Think you can "Show EA"?

I guess we shall see, shan't we?