An old text of Designer Dragons views on PvP

[Stigmatas]

<blockquote><hr>

I wonder how different UO would have been (better or worse?) if instead of Trammel they had implemented things like player towns which give the town members ability to implement defenses etc.

[/ QUOTE ]


You guys keep talking about player towns, and security. Pre trammel, it wasn't so much our little plots or areas of interaction, at least in my case, where the trouble was. The trouble was in the dungeon's, or out in the forests where PVM'ers were trying to kill stuff and getting attacked every time they did so by their fellow players.

People who see it as us against the game, and not against each other, took offense to it. Esp. when it happened ALL the time. Again, I guess I'll have to say it till I'm blue in the face, but Trammel was created because I'll guarantee you, the majority of players see it as US against the game. Not us vs. us. Lots of people do not want to pvp, ever, for any reason, ever, no matter what you do, ever, they don't want to ever pvp. Ever.

Karma.

Trammel.

 

[Stigmatas]

<blockquote><hr>

The following is not to you but to others in general.

In one sense, it is still fairly incredible that the PvP crowd still thinks the majority of UO players want to be exposed to blatant naked thieves and getting PK'd (aka the romanticizing the bad old days of UO into some grotesque picture of harmony in UO imposed by players).

You would have thought it would be crystal clear that the majority of players that left for BLUE / Carebear EQ servers made a very clear statement they did not want the rampant pointless hack/exploiting PKing of UO.

You would have thought it would be crystal clear that the majority of players abandoning houses and moving to Trammel to NEVER return to Felluca made a very clear statement they did not want the rampant pointless hack/exploiting PKing of UO.

[/ QUOTE ]



Quoted for Truth.

The leftovers from the bad old days are usually the ones posting in these forums. The rest of the real UO players are in game....playing. Either dealing with what is left of Felucca, because of these mindsets, or (mostly) in Trammel, where they have been, for what, going on 8 years now? LOL You think the folks who think Trammel ruined UO would get the point by now. Ugh.

 

[Stigmatas]

*sigh*

The purpose of the quote, was the part where he says, there are far fewer wolf only players, thus segregation would not be needed. If you made a UO server, regardless of what the rule set was, yes it would get people. It might even be good. But, but, but, the population would never exceed those that are Trammel rule set.

Even IF the pvp shard ended up having a higher total population than a (one) prod. shard, the total # of pvp'ers and pvm'ers only, wouldn't even compare. It's been shown time and again in UO.

For the last friggin time, that is what I meant, that is why I quoted it, was because it proves the point of who the majority, and the minority are in MMORPG's

I'm starting to realize why some of you can't understand why Trammel was a good thing. It's because some of you only see what you want to see. Nothing will change your minds no matter how much proof is spoon fed to you.

 

[imported_BlacK RaiN]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

I'm sorry, you must have missed all those publishes in the past year which were Felucca oriented.

[/ QUOTE ]

(but at this point, I will exit this thread for I fear I will have nothing more constructive to add - I will check back to read any rebuttals though)

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure what you've added... unless you consider it an addition to a discussion when you agree with what another person is saying?

Publishes with at least one enhancement to issues pertaining to Felucca and not to Trammel are Felucca oriented since Felucca players do everything Tram players do... AND they PvP.

Publishes pertaining to Tram only like Publish 44 would be Trammel oriented.

Thanks for confirming what I said to be true!

I'm so happy things look like the Developers are finally taking this game in the right direction!

Get used to it!

...

I certainly am!

Have a nice night!

 

[Stigmatas]

Did you miss the whole part of the discussion on how player justice should be dealt? The fact that I've stated countless times, in not so many words, that there IS a time and place for pvp, just not in the form it was pre-ren UO? Yes, you missed that part. Of course.

Instead of trolling, offer some valuable input, if you can, on how pvp could become what it was meant to be, what it should be. Then offer up how you would have implemented your version of Trammel because you must certainly respect the fact that the majority of your fellow players, have in the past, now, and in the future, never want to pvp, for any reason, ever, never pvp, for any reason, ever.

But you can't. Because YOU, and mindsets like yours, cannot respect the way others want to play. People like ME, can. And offer up ideas that may further the game.

Again, the simplest thing that could have been done, was done. They split the rule sets, and the MAJORITY flocked to the consentual "pvp" facet and STAYED there. Those who enjoy pvp, or the risk of it, did not. More power to em. But get it in your head, you were outnumbered. Vastly.

It's as if myself and a bunch of "trammies" were to come on the boards, year after year, and demanded that Felucca and PVP were to be removed from UO altogether.
How would that make you feel? It's been done time and again by the boardies here year after year. Trammel ruined UO. Carebears. Remove trammel. I quit. I cant grief everyone anymore. I hate UO.

Boom ......headshot!

 

[imported_BlacK RaiN]

BTW

I simply cannot wait till the day the Devs decide to enhance loot dropped from monsters!

Hunting will be fun again!

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

I'm a Trammie. Get ever it. Get used to it. Because I'm every inch as possessive of my vision of the true meaning of UO as you are of yours. So we can learn to coexist in our separate but touching facets or we lobby to be exiled to different servers or we can drive each other from the community crying.

[/ QUOTE ]

Would you say the same if the Trammel facet was the only facet with trammel ruleset and the other facets was with felucca ruleset.

The split don't work, it is not possible to coexist.
Trammel players are complaining, that they can't go to Felucca without being killed and reds can't leave Felucca, they are trapped on one facet. Sure they can go on a blue char, but they can't kill that annoying blue kid who keep trask talking them.

If UO want to make room for all, there is 2 ways.
1. Separate the servers so both you and I can enjoy all the facets
2. Add a switch but that will be very complicated and I doubt it will make all happy

I don't like Item Insurance, I don't think it belong in UO in any ruleset. I rather saw wearable items get a limet personly blessing, that will work from the first time you put it on your paperdoll. If an item get x hours of blessing, it will count down when you are ingame and the item is in your backpack or on your paperdoll.

Lets say a npc bought item stay blessed for 10 hours, a crafted non artifact for 20-50 hours depending of the mods on it, a non artifact monsterloot for 10 -50 hours depending of the level of loot and an artifact 100 hours.

As long the item have the title "Blessed for none x hours", it can be looted so if you get a cool item from monsterloot, you can temperery bless it for yourself, just try it on and title will changes to "Blessed for &lt;name&gt; x hours".
If you on the other hand want want to sell it on your vendor, it won't be blesses as long it have the title "Blessed for none x hours" and you may risk to lose it to PK's or looting monsters if in Trammel or if your body decay.

This way, there would be some loot to PK's but players would not lose their armor, weapon and other wearable items.
Also Items would not last forever, players would want new items with temp blessing on them when old items run out of blessing = more works to the crafters.
I believe that would be a better solution than Item Insurance

 

[Stigmatas]

You make it sound like community in UO is dead, of coarse because of Trammel. This is not so. I see people banding together all the time to fight peerless, do dungeon crawls, run auction houses, etc.

The community that fell apart was the Fel communities that were FORCED to band together before Trammel came about. The second it did, those communities fell apart. What exactly does this say about those so called "strong" communities. They were superficial at best. Not all of them mind you, but the ones that fell apart.

Things forced upon players will always create superficial atmospheres.
The proof has been all laid out before you, right in front of a shard near you.

 

[imported_BlacK RaiN]

<blockquote><hr>

Instead of trolling, offer some valuable input, if you can, on how pvp could become what it was meant to be, what it should be.

[/ QUOTE ]

PvP become what it was meant to be? You mean balance it?

I have... plenty of times. But, you obviously haven't figured out that we're discussing Designer Dragons point of view on Ultima Online...

Which seems as if it is spot on.

<blockquote><hr>

Then offer up how you would have implemented your version of Trammel because you must certainly respect the fact that the majority of your fellow players, have in the past, now, and in the future, never want to pvp, for any reason, ever, never pvp, for any reason, ever.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would have implemented new servers with "Trammel only" rulesets.

But to address the bs you tried to tack on the end of that question.

Why don't YOU...

Try accepting the fact that you are wrong about what the majority of my fellow players have wanted regarding pvp... ok?

Try accepting the fact that when there was no Trammel, UO's subscriptions did nothing but increase and that the servers were jam packed full. Even when EQ had been competing with UO for over a year... there were no droves of players who left for EQ without being replaced by even more players satisfied with the way UO was.

Try accepting the fact that the main reason people moved to Trammel was to place a house and that because you couldn't travel between Trammel and Felucca... they were stuck there... not there because they liked it or even wanted to play in that ruleset... they wanted a HOUSE and they were STUCK in Trammel.

Try accepting the fact that since getting Trammel, UO's subscriptions plateaued within a year... and only spiked when housing rules changed to 1 house per shard... then again to 1 house per account and how now have tanked into a niche market.

Try accepting the fact that the Trammel ruleset has driving the players who roleplayed Pirates, Orcs, Knights of Virtue, Vampires, Savages, so on and so on into utter extinction and turned PvP into mindless, meaningless fighting just for the sake of fighting.

Try accepting the fact that 99% of the stuff you said is 100% NOT true.

<blockquote><hr>

But you can't. Because YOU, and mindsets like yours, cannot respect the way others want to play. People like ME, can. And offer up ideas that may further the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

You respect the way people have wanted to play Orcs? Savages? Pirates? Murderers? You tell me you respected their playstyles by making it so that they couldn't play them anymore?

lol!!! That's HILARIOUS!

Nice lies tho.


Oh and by the way... I promote a world with no item insurance where the crafters are busy making weapons and armor for people to fight monsters with. A world when hunting in a dungeon or anywhere for that worthwhile yields good loot that you can use and lose regularly rather than being 99% crap as it is now. A world where you encounter PEOPLE playing merchants, knights, hunters, murderers, pirates, savages, orcs, vampires, brigands, thieves, and so on... not just NPCs with no brains, emotions, or hell... personalities. I promote a world that even though I didn't earn the right to loot a corpse, I have the freedom to do so and will be deemed a criminal which players can seek retribution for. A world where I can build a city with my friends and defend it from invading foes, human or not at any given moment. A world where my whits, cunning and constant risk yields the greatest reward of all.... fame and an actual feeling of accomplishment. Where one day the developers will look into a jailing system for reds that have been brought to justice by blues for killing other players... who can break out of jail or accelerate the loss of their murderer counts by remaining in it.

I promote a world where I have the freedom to be whatever I want to be, where every player has that same freedom... and where we all depend on each other to make the world what it is.

Just one more reason why I promote the shard of Siege Perilous and getting it fixed so players like me everywhere can finally enjoy this game the way it was meant to be played. From the hunter to the crafter to the pk to the thief to the knight to the savage to the orc to the pirate... to any and all of them.

~BR

PS. I find it HILARIOUS that you call me the Troll when that's all you've done this entire thread posting lies that are obviously not true at all.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

BTW

I simply cannot wait till the day the Devs decide to enhance loot dropped from monsters!

Hunting will be fun again!

[/ QUOTE ]

Me too
I believe poor monster loot in old dungeons and the old overland killed player towns in Old Britainnia.
Safe Haven (a player town on Siege between the desert and Cove) only have the black wisps that gives 500gp but the rest of the loot is worthless.
Noone, not even newbies will kill brigands, trolls, ettins, lizardmen, ratmen, GY spawn, orcs or harpies for their loot or their fame.
A short time, we had this enhanged black wisps with more fame and better lot. I really enjoyed them but it was to good to be true and they got moved to one of the new facets, long away from Safe Haven and my hunting ground.

 

[imported_BlacK RaiN]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

BTW

I simply cannot wait till the day the Devs decide to enhance loot dropped from monsters!

Hunting will be fun again!

[/ QUOTE ]

Me too
I don't like Item Insurance, I don't think it belong in UO in any ruleset.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought a good idea was to make items players crafted good.

To make items obtained from hunting monsters... good.

To make Artifacts blessed... with limited uses and not-repairable or powderable.

To remove some of the properties on items that really cripple playing characters if you don't have the item so you could focus on the items that enhance your character... not define it.

fast casting and fast casting recovery shouldn't be item properties at all for example.

If the magic resist skill worked like this

Magic Resist skill divided by 2 = your elemental resists then people would still have to wear armor to obtain decent physical resist.

ALSO players could still NOT have resist if they didnt want to and still run with competitive resists on their character. They wouldn't HAVE to have the skill... but choose to invest in it.

Change the way intensities are spawned on items... there is no point in having 1% or 2% in ANYTHING. Make it so that items spawn in tiers of 5% or 10% points... and make them more consistent. If I craft a piece of barbed leather... it should be 10/10/10/10/10 and not 8/4/3/16/15... thats just un-necessary and causes for people having to wade through oodles upon oodles of useless items in order to find a useful one.

If people could go out and hunt monsters or craft them... and get good loot when they did... sell that good loot to players... who would LOSE the items when they died...

We would finally have a working economy in this game.

Just like we have a working economy on the ONLY shard in the entire game that DOESN'T have Item Insurance... aka Siege Perilous.


Bring this game back to its roots. People like hunting for loot... they like killing for loot (whether people or monsters) and they like stealing, pillaging, finding... loot.

Item Insurance has been the WORST addition to this game... as if Trammel wasn't safe enough we had to make it almost fool-proof.

 

[Guest]

I agree with most you are saying.
I don't think giving artifacts a limit blessing but not crafted and monster loot is a good move, special not for the crafters.
Trammel minded players would only go to Felucca if they had a full suit of artifacts then.
The risk from getting looted keep alot players away from PvP. If you want more players to Felucca, I believe items with limit blessing would work.

<blockquote><hr>

Change the way intensities are spawned on items... there is no point in having 1% or 2% in ANYTHING. Make it so that items spawn in tiers of 5% or 10% points... and make them more consistent. If I craft a piece of barbed leather... it should be 10/10/10/10/10 and not 8/4/3/16/15... thats just un-necessary and causes for people having to wade through oodles upon oodles of useless items in order to find a useful one.

[/ QUOTE ]
I really wish to see this happen.

 

[Stigmatas]

My god you are delusional.

<blockquote><hr>

I would have implemented new servers with "Trammel only" rulesets.

But to address the bs you tried to tack on the end of that question.

Why don't YOU...

Try accepting the fact that you are wrong about what the majority of my fellow players have wanted regarding pvp... ok?

[/ QUOTE ]

Majority of who? The whole playerbase, or your little world? Because the reality is that majority went to trammel, and are still there. Fel died for a reason. The majority does not like non-con pvp. Learn that.

<blockquote><hr>

Try accepting the fact that when there was no Trammel, UO's subscriptions did nothing but increase and that the servers were jam packed full. Even when EQ had been competing with UO for over a year... no Droves of players left for EQ without being replaced by even more players satisfied with the way UO was.

[/ QUOTE ]

UO's subs CONTINUED to increase well after trammel, whoes population was vastly superior to any of that in Fel. Remember? No droves of UO players left for EQ before Trammel? You sure about that? No, your not sure, because there were a lot who did. My guild dwindled to nothing because EQ had "trammel" rulesets. UO's sub s only started to die off because of age, and competition of other games, who had non-con pvp btw. UO's subs hit an ALL TIME HIGH, while Trammel existed. Most of whom PLAYED in Trammel. Learn that yet?



<blockquote><hr>

Try accepting the fact that the main reason people moved to Trammel was to place a house and that because you couldn't travel between Trammel and Felucca... they were stuck there... not there because they liked it or even wanted to play in that ruleset... they wanted a HOUSE.

[/ QUOTE ]

LMFAO! Stuck in trammel? Kill an orc, get a moonstone! That was hard! They were not "stuck" there. They stayed there to get away from pk's and leg humpers. Yea, it was all for housing bub, yea. /delusion

<blockquote><hr>

Try accepting the fact that since getting Trammel, UO's subscriptions plateaued within a year... and only spiked when housing rules changed to 1 house per shard... then again to 1 house per account and how now tanked into a niche market.

[/ QUOTE ]

Had nothing to do with age, lethargy of the playerbase, and competition did it? You even admit the population "plateaued" here AFTER trammel. It INCREASED steadily, yes, after trammel. Started dieing off over time due to what? We said this....you can do it...competition and age. Same as SWG, EQ, and the other older MMORPG's..... have all plateaued and died off. Not because there is no leg humper land.

<blockquote><hr>

Try accepting the fact that the Trammel ruleset has driving the players who roleplayed Pirates, Orcs, Knights of Virtue, Vampires, Savages, so on and so on into utter extinction and turned PvP into mindless, meaningless fighting just for the sake of fighting.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh so Trammel ruined role playing? LOL How exactly? Could you not still eat and bash oomies in what was leftover of Fel? They went extinct because they chose too. That and they had less sheep to bully around. Because they were where? In trammel. At any point and time people could have used a moonstone, and subjected theirself to orcs bashin oomies but they did not. Because they did not want to pvp. The role players could have continued on, with those (smaller #) people who stayed in Fel. Instead they chose to cry and whine about how all the "victims" could not be victims anymore. No sympathy here bud.

 

[Stigmatas]

<blockquote><hr>

PvP become what it was meant to be? You mean balance it?

I have... plenty of times. But, you obviously haven't figured out that we're discussing Designer Dragons point of view on Ultima Online...

Which seems as if it is spot on.

[/ QUOTE ]



I haven't figured out we are discussing DD's point of view? You have read the thread, have you not? You did read the part about me supporting shard segregation, yes? The part where I question my own judgement on that subject? Its drawbacks, etc.?

The difference is some of you are picking and choosing what to comprehend instead of addressing his ideals as a whole. The major difference? The so called old schoolers would be perfectly fine with UO as it was. DD was not. I was not. The majority of UO players were not. Pre trammel UO was majorly flawed. It was a beta. It was a prototype. Trammel evolved from that as did every other major MMORPG that learned from UO's mistakes, mainly by implementing CONSENTUAL pvp. Lands for PVM'ers only, etc.

 

[imported_BlacK RaiN]

<blockquote><hr>

I agree with most you are saying.
I don't think giving artifacts a limit blessing but not crafted and monster loot is a good move, special not for the crafters.
Trammel minded players would only go to Felucca if they had a full suit of artifacts then.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you play the Trammel shards at all Freja?

I know you play Siege with me... but I also play atlantic.

You know... already, people go to Felucca with the virtue armor set which is 70 in all resists... and completely blessed. They do this... so they lose no insurance and can PvP as cheaply as possible.


Maybe a solution to this is that those items are only blessed in Trammel... but I think if you earned the artifact, you should be able to use it because they are hard to get. Sure, run around with artifacts... but I like the idea of going back to the days where maces destroyed your armor... fencing was fast, swords was a mix and archery was ranged.

Removed SSI, ubws and fast casting from spells and weapons... was one of my suggestions too.

I think loot made by players should have the potential to be better than artifacts if made with runics (and be faction blessed if in factions.. forever for the player who faction blessed it... that would be an AWESOME reward for being in factions.)

I think useless skills like... item identification should allow a player to customize the item properties on the weapons he/she crafts.

I think some servers should be the reverse in rulesets of what some are... where malas, ilshenar, tokuno and t2a are all felucca rulesets... with a trammel in them.

I also think the duplicated t2a should go away... including on those servers with a mostly trammel ruleset.


I also think that should these servers be split like this, that character transfers between them should be removed after a period of 90 days... and only at that point, I think powerscrolls should then drop on all champion spawns...

I think a good method to deal with housing would be a house relocation tool... that allows you only ONCE to relocate your house to any available place of your choosing. I think for those 90 days, no new houses can be placed on any account unless you're using this tool to ensure those who move around have enough time to place theirs without greedy people opening 2nd accounts and monopolizing the spots.


I think this is a good method so we can FINALLY just split the servers so that they are either Trammel or Felucca minded... make the economies and loot and the way items are mixed around them functional again... for ALL the servers.


I think all this coding and hard work would pay off in the long haul of UO's future... even if there will be slight losses that can easily be regained.

 

[imported_BlacK RaiN]

<blockquote><hr>

LMFAO! Stuck in trammel? Kill an orc, get a moonstone! That was hard! They were not "stuck" there. They stayed there to get away from pk's and leg humpers. Yea, it was all for housing bub, yea. /delusion

[/ QUOTE ]

Just one thing to burst your bubble.

Get moonstone... go to felucca and die, lose your stocks... go to bank, plant moonstone... go back to trammel... restock... go get another moonstoon... go back to fel.

You don't think people got fed up with having to farm moonstones constantly just to play in Felucca? You know how many lockdowns/secures those non-stackable things had?

Noo.... it was soooo easy to get back and forth!

I'm sure even the ones in Felucca who died and had no gear... and couldnt get a moonstone really enjoyed that adventure too! It was sooo easy no one got frustrated with the process... at all!! Seriously!

and BTW Felucca was really active until AoS/p.16 destroyed it (tks item insurance and forcing people to item grind just to PvP competitively, killed thieves, killed orcs, pirates, cause of crappy gear couldnt roleplay properly... killed monster hunting cause hunting in 99% of the world was pointless... killed crafting... killed UO for all cept for people playing a select few playstyles... people like you.)

Now I'm done discussing this with you... you're pretty nuts and I'm sick of your lies... since you're taking this thread into the land of non-sense I don't need to reply to you anymore.

It's not like any of your posts in this entire thread make any sense... anyways.

So have a wonderful night sir!

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Do you play the Trammel shards at all Freja?

I know you play Siege with me... but I also play atlantic.

You know... already, people go to Felucca with the virtue armor set which is 70 in all resists... and completely blessed.

[/ QUOTE ]

No I don't play Trammel shards, I played Atlantic until a little after Trammel was added.
And no, I did not know about blessed virtuel armor.
Did not know how bad the is now on normal shards, poor crafters there

 

[imported_BlacK RaiN]

<blockquote><hr>

Did not know how bad the is now on normal shards, poor crafters there

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah... crafters either farm bunches of resources and do nothing but boring bods... or burn runic kits for their PvP/PvM chars.

There's no selling of wares so no crafter run vendor shops... and RARELY you get ones that offer to repair items... and with the scamming, they just sell bulk repair deeds.


They're such a one dimensional role in the world... and therefore useless.

Same thing with thieves... except those characters are REALLY useless.


And this kid talks about respecting other people's playstyles!?!?! LOL! Yeah, let me just tell you about all of the wonderful things Trammel has done to peoples playstyles... you'll be SO glad you're on Siege.

 

[Stigmatas]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

LMFAO! Stuck in trammel? Kill an orc, get a moonstone! That was hard! They were not "stuck" there. They stayed there to get away from pk's and leg humpers. Yea, it was all for housing bub, yea. /delusion

[/ QUOTE ]

Just one thing to burst your bubble.

Get moonstone... go to felucca and die, lose your stocks... go to bank, plant moonstone... go back to trammel... restock... go get another moonstoon... go back to fel.

You don't think people got fed up with having to farm moonstones constantly just to play in Felucca? You know how many lockdowns/secures those non-stackable things had?

Noo.... it was soooo easy to get back and forth!

I'm sure even the ones in Felucca who died and had no gear... and couldnt get a moonstone really enjoyed that adventure too! It was sooo easy no one got frustrated with the process... at all!! Seriously!

and BTW Felucca was really active until AoS/p.16 destroyed it (tks item insurance and forcing people to item grind just to PvP competitively)

Now I'm done discussing this with you... you're pretty nuts and I'm sick of your lies... since you're taking this thread into the land of non-sense I don't need to reply to you anymore.

It's not like any of your posts in this entire thread make any sense... anyways.

So have a wonderful night sir!

[/ QUOTE ]

Now your completely not making any sense, and contradicting yourself. Wow. Why would someone have to farm massive amounts of moonstones. Moonstones you apparently didn't know existed since you said people were "stuck" in trammel hehehe. The only way someone would need to farm moonstones would be if they lived in Fel, had a house in Fel, that they didn't want to lose, and HUNTED, and spent their time in Trammel. And for those who wanted to play in Fel, why would they have needed a house in Trammel in the first place? Most players had already established their selves in Fel. People saw their chance to get away from that crappy prototype UO, and all the griefing leg humping, pkaying trash talkers, and pounced on Tram with new houses.

But why would they need to go to Trammel at all to do anything if Felucca was so great? Contradiction sir, because they preferred Trammel rulesets. The ones who did not need too, as you so eloquently stated, had houses in Trammel, and didn't need to get moonstones because they were perfectly happy, in Trammel. If a felucca player had a house in Tram, and had to constantly travel back and forth, why did they not already have a house in fel? Or get one?

Checkmate!

Ok I'll give you this. Your right about AoS hosing pvp...at least for awhile. The fact that high end gear was rare, arty's were rare, and you needed them to pvp, was LAME. That was glaringly obvious. It's a good thing most people didn't want to pvp, and were happily enjoying their game time unmolested in Trammel

 

[Guest]

I admit to skimming a large bit of this, as I'd read that (FrejaSP's OP) from DD before and already discussed it enough to be content.

But, from what I've read I'd just like to confess that you have been making plenty of realistic sense to me.

 

[imported_Heartseeker]

Some good posts.

I don't agree with you at times but you said a lot of truth in your posts.

The world of UO was a lot like you described.

And Trammel actually killed a lot of play styles.

Stig is making no sense/non sense in his posts.

But good luck in trying to shut him up.

Between Connor,Fayled,Surgeries and few others you would think this game is at it's high point.

One thing that all of them seem to not understand is; subscriptions have nothing to do with the amount of people playing.

Before Trammel there wasn't a lot of players having more than one account.

Internet fees and other like things were the cause.

On the other hand, today many players have multiple accounts; some as high as 10.

Housing was the number one reason for Trammel adoption.

So the Trammel system that many are rooting for, is in reality a failure.

The fact that many of the players are here posting just shows that the game is lacking in more ways than one now.

Most that prefer the game now,either never played pre-Tram/(Connor) or were picked on in the sandbox and cried.

 

[Stigmatas]

<blockquote><hr>

I admit to skimming a large bit of this, as I'd read that (FrejaSP's OP) from DD before and already discussed it enough to be content.

But, from what I've read I'd just like to confess that you have been making plenty of realistic sense to me.

[/ QUOTE ]


Thanks

As it would make sense to anyone not blind to reality, or common sense. You can systematically pick out the ones that want to start an argument, review their posting history, and come to the realization that they are the posters who constantly gripe about everything, are never satisfied, and have the least amount of objectivity.

 

[Stigmatas]

LOL

<blockquote><hr>

So the Trammel system that many are rooting for, is in reality a failure.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, then explain the fact that since the inception of Trammel, WHY the majority of the population, from this date to that, has outnumbered anyone on the Felucca side of the moongate.

Explain why people went there, placed houses there, and stayed, there, to play there. Forever. And Felucca was left as a barren wasteland. Barren wasteland as in very few people, in comparison to how many you would/will see in Trammel.

When you next log in, go around all the dungeons in Fel, the overland, the towns. Count the players, then do it in Tram. Realize its been the same for EIGHT years.

And I invite anyone to review the posts of Arcus, Black Rain, and Heartseeker, myself, Conner, Surgeries.....Aesedia(sp?) and COMPARE. Look at the whining, the moaning. Look at who is actually helpful around here. Who does not moan, complain, TROLL.

Your hero Black Rain made the ridiculous statement (among others) that people were "stuck" in trammel. Your going to follow someone who spins facts, spreads lies, sees what they only want to see?


Explain yourself.

 

[Guest]

You can't prove a whole lot if you count where players are or where the houses are. Not while Fel blues are visiting Tram, because that's where all the arties and peerless happen, or we're hunting there while our dungeons are screwed up. Or there's an event on. Those figures would be hogwash and I'm sure you know that. You'd be stacking Tram players with Fel ones, so of course there's more "playing" in Tram! We have no choice if we want certain items. Before champs I never set foot in Tram unless I wanted to visit a particular shop. No PvM, nada. Now all the carrots are in Tram which is pathetic.

As for houses, I know just inside Luna there are Fel players with shops... I'm one of the few who refused to set up store on a Tram facet, but I know many did. So again, those figures would prove very little. On Europa there's a single player who owns what looks like half of Luna too... I've seen others with clusters of houses placed together, dotted all over Tram and Malas. So that further distorts the figures.

So if you take those as arguments in support of Tram, you're not proving anything. The most you can prove is that the devs messed up Fel and haven't bothered fixing her up yet. Which we all know anyway.

Wenchy

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Stig is making no sense/non sense in his posts.

But good luck in trying to shut him up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Stigmates can make sense, he just can't resist making a flamewar and when he end up with BlacK RaiN he turn his brain off and it become mud casting and not a serios debat.

The same count for several hardcore Trammel players and several hardcore Felucca players.

We all need to try to debat in a respectful way and try to control our old hate to Carebears, Griefers, Trammies, exploiters or whatever we call the players who want a different playstyle than us.

We are not kids, look in the age thread but sometimes we sound like a kindergarden.

Remember, we all love the game and we all (almost all :/) want room for all playstyles some way or an other.

 

[Stigmatas]

<blockquote><hr>

You can't prove a whole lot if you count where players are or where the houses are. Not while Fel blues are visiting Tram, because that's where all the arties and peerless happen, or we're hunting there while our dungeons are screwed up. Or there's an event on. Those figures would be hogwash and I'm sure you know that. You'd be stacking Tram players with Fel ones, so of course there's more "playing" in Tram! We have no choice if we want certain items. Before champs I never set foot in Tram unless I wanted to visit a particular shop. No PvM, nada. Now all the carrots are in Tram which is pathetic.

As for houses, I know just inside Luna there are Fel players with shops... I'm one of the few who refused to set up store on a Tram facet, but I know many did. So again, those figures would prove very little. On Europa there's a single player who owns what looks like half of Luna too... I've seen others with clusters of houses placed together, dotted all over Tram and Malas. So that further distorts the figures.

So if you take those as arguments in support of Tram, you're not proving anything. The most you can prove is that the devs messed up Fel and haven't bothered fixing her up yet. Which we all know anyway.

Wenchy

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, yes of course there is more content, NOW, in Tram than Fel. But ask yourself these questions:

Why did people move, and hunt soley in Trammel when it was created. There was no Doom, there were no peerless.

Why did people put the majority of their shops in Trammel? Even the fel players?

Dungeons screwed up? Why?

Greifers? lol

Why is there more content in Tram then Fel? Majority rules

...no griefers

Why not hunt something in Fel then instead of coming back to tram while your dungeons are screwed up. Im assuming your speaking of champ spawns with that. Correct if wrong pls.

Look I'm not trying to make pvp look like [censored]. It's a viable playstyle that I even partake in, albeit rarely. I suck but I still try lol. I can kill script miners real good though. lol. I simply made the arguement with UO's past as proof, what I've seen, what others have seen, who I hunt with, who they hunt with, etc. coupled with Raph Coster's comments, that pvm, unmolested, consentual pvp style facets have been and always will be more popular. And to do away with them, or make a "classic" shard, would be a waste of resources, due to the low amount of people who would actually use them. Not to mention if pvp was once again forced on people, the majority, wow, watch the boards light up then! Imagine how many people would quit all over again. I know MOST of the people who want pre tram UO around, don't want to see tram removed altogether, just that I know some griefers, would.

 

[Stigmatas]

Show me in my replies to him, where I did not make any sense

Show me where I started it. I countered his perceptions, in a more intelligent way than he can muster. He, like many others, want nothing but a flame war. Again, review his posts. Watch the future. You'll see if you paying attention.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>



Ok, yes of course there is more content, NOW, in Tram than Fel. But ask yourself these questions:

Why did people move, and hunt soley in Trammel when it was created. There was no Doom, there were no peerless.


[/ QUOTE ]

Most people I knew went to tram in hopes of placing a house. Some went to tram so they can farm the heck out of the game w/o any risk what so ever, some went to tram cuas they didnt have the mind set to play with or against a real Person. A game w/o risk is well the sims.

Funny thing I know at least 20 people who quit UO when tram came out not cuase it was the easy button but the fact they had a hard time gettin back to what they loved the fel ruleset and gameplay.

And for you to knock our playstyle is wrong Most of the value on weapons and armor are based on weather or not its good for pvp a cincture would not be worth as much if it served no purpose in PvP. look at doom arties only the arties that have inpact on PvP are worth something the rest ya can get for 1-200k.

It kinda makes ya ask yourself could the reason behind trammies not wanting to let us have our own server be based behind the greed of not being able to sell items for insane amounts of gold? I want pvpers to have their own server(s) I do not want to play with trammies anymore Im not a lazy person I love a challenge to whatever Im doing I should not be able to kill a dragon in 3-4 hits EVER. I love risk I love the rush of when your killing liches and 3 reds roll up to ya and you kill 2 before the 3rd gets ya.

Siege is not a good replacement its unbalanced. pvp is somewhat balanced but the pvm aspect of it is out of whack. Due to item properties, resists, lack of insurance.

 

[imported_EnigmaMaitreya]

*Shrug*

The only real value a "Delete the Aggressor" option being given to the Non Aggressor would be to force an aggressor to think about what they are about to do before they do it.

Let us use an example.

Let us say that PkGod is mining some where and PKClueless comes along and ... insert means of being annoying to PKGod ...

Assumption PKClueless is really being pointlessly, harassment, griefing wise coming to him. In a Mad Max Anarchy rules world.

Currently there is absolutely nothing that will stop / slow down PKGod. Which of course solves exactly nothing as PKClueless just keeps on with the harassment/griefing. Or in short PKCluess has nothing more to fear from death that PKGod does. It is simply a structure that greases the path for escalating harassment/griefing.

Now then introduce a structure where the non aggressor (regardless of wining or losing) gets the option to delete the character, all their possessions everything. I mean a total character wipe. Now then people are going to be forced to think it through before they take action.

The above really does force PvP to be consensual OR it forces the PKr to be as absolutely entertaining as they can be. It tends to if not totally removes the non entertaining, hurtful experience of PvP. That is the goal, in my opinion.

In short PvP should be entertaining for both sides. If it isn't doing that then there is no way there wont be problems.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Ok, yes of course there is more content, NOW, in Tram than Fel. But ask yourself these questions:

Why did people move, and hunt soley in Trammel when it was created. There was no Doom, there were no peerless.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mostly my friends went for the housing. Then a lot of RPers who thought it'd be safer moved. It was a novelty to have a house there. Some outright refused to return to Fel for PvM when they could get the same things in Tram. Others kept visiting which was good. That didn't kill us.

For a good while we still did pretty well in Fel. Ok a lot of folk moved out, but they visited us too. They weren't getting ganked by artie gimps with insurance. What really changed was when items really entered PvP. So to compete either cost a lot or required you to spend many hours in Tram. My guild all factioned with alts and fought around Fel for years. But after AoS it suddenly wasn't fun even for the PvP ones anymore. The little guy couldn't fight. And he needed to spend a lot of time in Tram earning gold or arties if he wanted to.

<blockquote><hr>

Why did people put the majority of their shops in Trammel? Even the fel players?

[/ QUOTE ]
The same reason folks put them in Tokuno and now Luna. Passing trade. Everyone wants to be in the new place and a merchant will see the passing customers and set up shops in their path. Folks moved from Tram to Tokuno and Malas too.

<blockquote><hr>

Dungeons screwed up? Why? Greifers? lol

[/ QUOTE ]

Because no recall means that if you went for a quiet hunt, you had no choice but try fighting off the raid squads of 4-8 arti gimps who took advantage of that. Also, have you ever tried to walk a pet from the entrance of shame to say the 4th level? Then back out again at the end of the night? Try and see how much fun it is. Especially with that sitting duck feeling as you hunt. I'll do it now with my stealther, but my normal PvM chars aren't suited to Fel anymore.

<blockquote><hr>

Why is there more content in Tram then Fel? Majority rules ...no griefers

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a lovely attitude towards your fellow player. BTW EA rules, not the players. We pay the same fees as you, I think the least we can expect is some of the content you take for granted. Pity we can't reverse the roles for a week. That'd give you something to complain about for sure and you'd realise how unbalanced it is. Even if we got a proportion of the content based on how many Fel players there were, it'd be heck of a lot more than we have now.

No griefers in Tram? You are kidding me?! Why did they make luring and the like illegal then? Because everyone plays nice there through choice? Aye, right. It wasn't just the nice players who moved to Tram. Y'all just have more rules to protect yer butts

<blockquote><hr>

Why not hunt something in Fel then instead of coming back to tram while your dungeons are screwed up. Im assuming your speaking of champ spawns with that. Correct if wrong pls.

[/ QUOTE ]

After almost 9 years, it's a bit boring having the same few dungeons and overland spawns to hunt. I still do hunts in Fel now it's quieter, but are you seriously telling me that you could restrict yourself solely to Tram for years and not get a little bored? That's without anyone slotting in champ spawns over T2A, dungeons and killing dungeon recall off. And assuming you never wanted to get any arties or the like. Is there a "new content" summoning tali I'm not aware of?

<blockquote><hr>

And to do away with them, or make a "classic" shard, would be a waste of resources, due to the low amount of people who would actually use them. Not to mention if pvp was once again forced on people, the majority, wow, watch the boards light up then! Imagine how many people would quit all over again. I know MOST of the people who want pre tram UO around, don't want to see tram removed altogether, just that I know some griefers, would.


[/ QUOTE ]

I have never said do away with Fel, or make a retro server. I do think mistakes were made in the past, but I don't think reverting would do any good now players have tasted what we have now. All I want is content in Fel. Fel versions of places like Tokuno and the like.

Even just our own spawns of certain things if nobody wants to put in work giving us full dungeons. A peerless spawn in Hythloth for example. But I think we could do with some new areas. Dungeons to replace the ones the champs took, with recall. I knew a few Tram players who would still PvM in Fel because it was quieter, but they stopped after the recall thing went in. Or just put champs into T2A only and return the old dungeons to how they were. That'd be a start. Then someone can give me a town stone so I can encourage Tram folks to come RP in Fel again.

Wenchy

 

[imported_EnigmaMaitreya]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>



....

....

It kinda makes ya ask yourself could the reason behind trammies not wanting to let us have our own server be based behind the greed of not being able to sell items for insane amounts of gold? I want pvpers to have their own server(s) I do not want to play with trammies anymore Im not a lazy person I love a challenge to whatever Im doing I should not be able to kill a dragon in 3-4 hits EVER. I love risk I love the rush of when your killing liches and 3 reds roll up to ya and you kill 2 before the 3rd gets ya.

Siege is not a good replacement its unbalanced. pvp is somewhat balanced but the pvm aspect of it is out of whack. Due to item properties, resists, lack of insurance.

[/ QUOTE ]

Has there bgeen a significant change since I left? Are you seriously saying that the Trammel (I could say Trammies and Exploiting/Hacking PK Gankers if we want to insult play styles) do NOT want you to have your own server?

For real? If all the Felluca players were given a chance to exit their side of the shard for a single server (or how ever many it took) and then remove the Dual sides of each shard, that the Trammel players are against this as in they would miss you?

If that is the case then things are very different than when I was last here.

*Shrug*

If UO could get rid of all Felluca sides and consolidate into a single (or how ever many it would take) shards, thus reducing the ongoing operating expense. I would think everyone would end up being a winner. I would certainly be all for it. I suppose conversely they could simply sever the ability to move back and forth between Felluca and Trammel, creating duplicate expansion lands.

My memory is that was the preferred by people that did not want to be exposed to ... (lets play nice) ... PvP. That in fact it was the PvP side that absolutely rejected that concept and did every thing they could think of to con, scam, trick the ones that left to BE FORCED to come back to Felluca so they could ... have sheep to play with.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Show me in my replies to him, where I did not make any sense

Oh no, I'm not going to read throught your and BlacK Rain's flamewar

<blockquote><hr>

Show me where I started it. I countered his perceptions, in a more intelligent way than he can muster. He, like many others, want nothing but a flame war. Again, review his posts. Watch the future. You'll see if you paying attention.

[/ QUOTE ]

The very first postes you made in this thread was meant to start flame war. I did not accept the invatations to a flame war. If I had reacted with attacking trammel players, we had not got the nice debat we had on the first pages.

It takes two to fight so I'm not just blaming you.

The sat thing with this flamewars is, as soon they start, devs stop reading the thread.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Ok, yes of course there is more content, NOW, in Tram than Fel. But ask yourself these questions:

Why did people move, and hunt soley in Trammel when it was created. There was no Doom, there were no peerless.

Why did people put the majority of their shops in Trammel? Even the fel players?

[/ QUOTE ]

People take the easy and more safe way.
I had a friend who moved to Siege, she wanted to play in Felucca but she always ended up hunting in Trammel even when she enjoyed the risk.
With switching to Siege she solve the problem. She stayed on Siege until she a few years ago got RL problems and no Internet/PC and had to stop playing.

 

[Guest]

No its based on the ones that post here and try to shoot down any thought of our playstyle. whenever any kind of post is made suggesting that pvpers have their own shards. when in all reality it would balance the game at better allowin Devs to fix, balance skills/item w/o the chance of hurting the other playstyle if something is unbalanced on a fel shard the balance would not affect the pvmers game unless they were on the fell shard. And i dont like to call it a pvp shard just a shard w/o tram rules cuas there would be plenty of people that pvm/craft that like the freedoms of a fell shard. The concept worked, it works on free shards it works in WOW and if and if ever darkfall comes out we will will see the same concept.

With the cost and time it takes to create a MMO there surely is a market for our playstyle for darkfall to use the old blueprint of a Pre uo:r style of game it only shows that there is demand enough to invest the money needed to create a game to attract that market. UO can capitalize on that market to by opening up some fel ruleset shards.

 

[Der Rock]

-------------------------------------------
We are not kids, look in the age thread but sometimes we sound like a kindergarden.
------------------------------------------

yes,it looks that the main part of kindergarden is on the pvp side.
this is a endless palaver,
as long as facts don´t play any rule on the pvp side,

the emptyness of fell and siege, dont exist since yesterday
the pvp player have to agree, that the majority of players (dont mind wich mmporg game) like to spent the leisure time for relaxing, and don´t like to feel like hunted every step they do.
i am NOT against pvp,
i am against(like the majority) to link the provision with pvp.
killing pvm player at champs is NOT PvP
pressing player in a area to get what they need is wrong.(the fact,tells his own tale)
more player has quit uo in the past due to the antisozial behavior of a smal part of the playerbase,as pvp player did.
lets say there are maybe 20+/- different playstyles, pure pvp is only 1 part of them.
and this part of player, ruined the fun to play for many people,particularly bevore trammel exist.
it is the obligation of the DEV´s to insert a system where each playstyle has
HIS eligibility,but NOT for Roman holliday.

but, what i say.... it is an endless palaver

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

In short PvP should be entertaining for both sides. If it isn't doing that then there is no way there wont be problems.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's why I think we truly need a much improved system of notoriety and karma. What we have doesn't work or reflect how players behave. Reds can often just be players who have the balls to kill an annoying little twerp

Wenchy

 

[imported_EnigmaMaitreya]

<blockquote><hr>

No its based on the ones that post here and try to shoot down any thought of our playstyle. whenever any kind of post is made suggesting that pvpers have their own shards. when in all reality it would balance the game at better allowin Devs to fix, balance skills/item w/o the chance of hurting the other playstyle if something is unbalanced on a fel shard the balance would not affect the pvmers game unless they were on the fell shard. And i dont like to call it a pvp shard just a shard w/o tram rules cuas there would be plenty of people that pvm/craft that like the freedoms of a fell shard. The concept worked, it works on free shards it works in WOW and if and if ever darkfall comes out we will will see the same concept.

With the cost and time it takes to create a MMO there surely is a market for our playstyle for darkfall to use the old blueprint of a Pre uo:r style of game it only shows that there is demand enough to invest the money needed to create a game to attract that market. UO can capitalize on that market to by opening up some fel ruleset shards.

[/ QUOTE ]

No I completely agree, the two playstyles should be separated.

The best chance PvP has of gaining new players from the Trammel side is for the Trammel players to be curious enough to make the effort to go to a PvP shard and for the players on that shard to have the Community Savvy to make the Shard (aka the community) entertaining enough to keep them there.

It has always been my opinion that allowing the two play styles to intermix simply allows the very very very few Pkrs the opportunity to ruin it for both sides.

In the theme of this thread, DD was a Drop Dead "Over my dead body" against this concept.

It really worked well in EQ. They have their own server (and I have characters there) and mostly they are happy (as happy as one can be with PvP ion EQ). They banded together to be the first to take down the Most Uber Mob of the day, The Sleeper.

BUT

They also suffer from an inability to percieve they hold the keys to defining how their world is. In short EQ pretty much leaves them alone and intervenes only in cases of exploits and gross violations of the terms of service (mostly sexual, racial harassment etc).

There is little doubt in my mind that UO would have been and could still be better if they were to make shards PvP OR PvM but not both.

 

[Der Rock]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For a good while we still did pretty well in Fel. Ok a lot of folk moved out, but they visited us too. They weren't getting ganked by artie gimps with insurance. What really changed was when items really entered PvP. So to compete either cost a lot or required you to spend many hours in Tram. My guild all factioned with alts and fought around Fel for years. But after AoS it suddenly wasn't fun even for the PvP ones anymore. The little guy couldn't fight. And he needed to spend a lot of time in Tram earning gold or arties if he wanted to.
---------------------------------
Reds can often just be players who have the balls to kill an annoying little twerp
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


You are a good example why fell is empty.

 

[Guest]

Im sorry but fel is not empty only on dead shards. People do not hunt in fel for the simple reason not that there are those "pks" but the fact that everything that is in fel to hunt is in tram.

Humans have a silly trait they will always go with what is easy till they just eventually get bored and not play anymore or cry give me MORE MORE MORE BUT YOU HAVE TO KEEP IT EASY FOR ME! hence runic changes. When a person steps into the fel side of the gate they are consenting to PvP reguardless if they are pvmers they know full well anyplace they go they can be attacked by anyone and should know how to defend themselves. if they are so dence to understand that a &gt;40s luck/lrc suit is not what they should equip themselves with in fell, then they deserve to die a quick death.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

-------------------------------------------
We are not kids, look in the age thread but sometimes we sound like a kindergarden.
------------------------------------------

yes,it looks that the main part of kindergarden is on the pvp side.


[/ QUOTE ]

As I said, it takes two to fight, both sides have their fair share in the kindergarden.

And then we have the rocks, who refuse to move just a little bit to find solutions that works for all.

Sorry if you sometimes feel I ignore you but your name fit you very well

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>



That's why I think we truly need a much improved system of notoriety and karma. What we have doesn't work or reflect how players behave. Reds can often just be players who have the balls to kill an annoying little twerp


[/ QUOTE ]

I went red like that a few times back in the day.

"enters OL spawn attack an OL some kiddie screams I was here first this is mine mine mine go away before I page on you I then proceed to kill them instead " yes going red was worth it now that I think about it. I miss the good ol days *sighs*

 

[Never]

I gave up a long time ago trying to help a campaign in just getting one classic shard up. Im sure it would draw at bare minimum enough people to play it from players who used to play the game. Would that be worth the effort for them? I dont know, maybe not.

I can say though sadly I think they missed the window of opportunity for this type of server. From 2001-2005 people really where flooding messegeboards wanting this, but you dont see it these days. They moved on.

Those who played back then and loved it the way it use to be will always know how great of a game UO was.

It would be nice to see a new UO though from the ground up. Its weird they scrapped two UO projects.

 

[Der Rock]

----------------------------------------------------------------
Humans have a silly trait they will always go with what is easy till they just eventually get bored and not play anymore or cry give me MORE MORE MORE BUT YOU HAVE TO KEEP IT EASY FOR ME!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

a likly story
i always combat the hardest monster,and always search the biggest challenge
i was one of the first who "cleaned" doom alone.
(without cheats,scripts or gimp templates)
and i bet, many pvm player searching for challenge.

i know, that is no challenge in ure mind
youre playstyle is the best, and all other should play like you?
deprecatory post, or not?

remove champs and remove harrover from fel....
WHO "play" then with you ????
where ARE the tens of thousends pure pvp player in fel??

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

one thing i dont understand is:

u almost HAVE ure PVP only server(Siege and Fell everywhere)
the PvP only player are almost alone there, BUT where are those 1000´s of 1000´ pvp player?
where are the BIG pvp battles
why are these places abandoned.
something is wrong in ure argumentation or not?

[/ QUOTE ]

Seige rules are lame. Make a fel only server with normal rules and you will se many go there

 

[Guest]

Oh really? Ever stop to think of reasons why a RP town would have the odd red friend take care of a blue griefer trying to disrupt an event? Or kill someone who is lurking at my shop hoping to jump a red customer or one of my crafters? We're meant to just roll over for that kind of thing?

If you're running a shop you want customers alive and if you have a tavern it's hard for those customers to drink ale whilst dead. Sometimes I just ban and ignore, but some wannabe's have rushed up to and attacked my red friends who were just standing chatting in town. If they will insist on being notos, without knowing who they attacked, then they need to accept the consequences. I don't ever start a fight in my town, or condone it, because I'm a RPer and we're an "open to all" town. But if someone attacks or makes trouble there, then there are consequences. It's not like we can call guards.

And despite what you apparently think, I still have passing RPers visit me from Tram, so I think that says quite clearly that my town is not run by griefers or bad people. I have 2 local reds who when they PK'd someone nearby they ended up taking her for a drink in the tavern and we spent a few hours all RPing with each other.

Wenchy

 

[Der Rock]

--------------------------------------------------
Make a fel only server with normal rules and you will se many go there
---------------------------------------------------------

There is nothing to be said against it.

and then they must remove on pvm shards fellucca, and setup
faction and guild wars, like in WoW,

think that would be the best for all.

 

[Guest]

I never said my playstyle is better. People play what they want to play. same would go for a fell rule production shard people will play it some wont. PvM to me is just boring IMHO it has become to easy there is no real challenge once a monster is figured out it becomes soloable. I do not like the fact the PvM playstyle is forced on to me to get the gear I need with out having to pay insane prices. and the same could be said about power scrolls. Most PvPers I know are wicked PvMers when you go from a human AI to an predetermined AI its like from going from Crown Royal to md 20/20.

 

[Surgeries]

*Pokes Head In*

<blockquote><hr>

Now your completely not making any sense, and contradicting yourself. Wow.

[/ QUOTE ]

Psst...Stig...

You Are Arguing With Black Rain.

I have tried to explain things to him/her in a logical, cogent fashion. Many, Many Times.

You will get replies like:

<blockquote><hr>

I never said they DID didn't NOT make it like NOT like that, so thanks for being so WRONG and making me so RIGHT!!

Have a nice night!!!

And

So...what you are really saying is that because they didn't NOT make it NOT like that, that because I AM right, then you are WRONG, because they DID did nOT make it LIKE not LIKE that?? LMAO!! How can you be not be so right wrong??!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously...Black Rain MUST be right.

The history of UO PROVES it!!

MMORPG History PROVES it!!

EVERYONE Loves "Loot Me Dry" and "Laugh Over My Corpse" PvP, like Freja and Black Rain love. Well...Hundreds of Thousands do!! Look at Lineage!! Look at WoW!!

You know...that Kick Ass fun that WAS Pre Ren UO!!! Oh wait...Lineage and WoW aren't like Pre Ren UO...you can't dry loot in those games...DANG IT!!!!

That Kick Ass Fun that took UO to 150K or 200K Subs in TWO YEARS!!!

That Kick Ass Fun that was surpassed as quick as one can BLINK by a Sony MMORPG that had NO Kick Ass Fun!!

Of course they are right.

And my recommendation to you, is to leave the two of them to discuss just how wrong UO was, for limiting the Completely Non-Con Horse Crap that WAS Pre Ren UO, that both you and I played...

And we go do something, fun, together, building our own "Community", whilst they build theirs.

Who knows...maybe the conversation I had with Fertbert so many moons ago, where he told me, face to face, the same exact thing that WoW Devs told the clamorers for a "Pre-X" Shard ...that they simply won't do it because of the resource drain etc. etc. etc. (and before even one of the proponents say "Well...they could just make it, then leave it!!"...then YOU need to just go play a Free Shard..truly...because we know you folks would be in here the DAY after it went live complaining up a STORM, and holding up the fact that the piddly FEW of you that ARE plkaying it are PAYING CUSTOMERS, for the love of GOD!!!)..WON'T be true for them (Freja and Black Rain), and the Devs will make one for them. Just for them. The two of them.

In their spare time.

So...unless your forehead isn't sore enough trying to talk logic into a dyed in the woolens "Knight of Justice" (WOO-HOO!!)...then let's go do what we have done for ten years plus...and play UO...the way WE like it...whaddya say?

Um yeah.

 

[Der Rock]

can YOU answer this question?

remove champs and remove harrover from fel....
WHO "play" then with you ????
where ARE the tens of thousends pure pvp player in fel??

can you?

 

[Guest]

From what I gather most people want a pre-x shard not a revert of code but want the ruleset that was in place most would be happy with a current UO shard just with Fell rulesets minus the tram land mass. Some want current UO but with the old weapon props with fell rules only. and a small group wants UO just before UO:R. Reverting UO would never work, a game must move forward. but at the same time take care of the many playstyles. wich is why you have to seperate the playstyles.

In 2000 tram was a good idea for the few that needed it. but the way it was put in was wrong. It should have been its own shards or completely different map. Just like champ spawns were put in badly they should have put them into t2a but kept the dungeons as they were.

now days with cheap serverspace, char xfers, spliting the shards it is now even more of a possibility then it was then.