An old text of Designer Dragons views on PvP

[Der Rock]

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From what I gather most people want a pre-x shard
In 2000 tram was a good idea for the few that needed it
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it is always funny, in wich situations,people use the words MOST and FEW.

 

[imported_BlacK RaiN]

<blockquote><hr>


Between Connor,Fayled,Surgeries and few others you would think this game is at it's high point.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep!

The funny thing is... they can't seem to figure out why their wrong when their position in this argument is:

"They have the right to their playstyle as long as they play, their playstyle on MY TERMS!! RAWR!!!"

Seriously... lowell

Oh and..

To Surgeries, you really should stop cutting just the bull out of UOHall... you leave so much crap behind.

 

[Surgeries]

<blockquote><hr>

Stig is making no sense/non sense in his posts.


[/ QUOTE ]

Of course, Heart Seeker.

And your posts are so convincingly cogent.

Oh yeah. I am sure that the masses, including the Devs, are just THIS CLOSE to buying into all the stuff you and Black Rain and Freja are spewing.

Keep it up...maybe THIS will be the Year/Month/Week they FINALLY see just how right you folks are, and put up that dang Retro Shard!!

*Runs Off to Buy Lottery Tickets*

<blockquote><hr>

Between Connor,Fayled,Surgeries and few others you would think this game is at it's high point.


[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't say "High Point". There is much work to be done, indeed, as I have said many times.

Just because it is the only game in town, as it was in '97/'98, doesn't make the more abhorrent parts of it, fun, for most players.

You forget...humans can endure a great deal of discomfort, to get to the "Fun"...and Pre Tram proves this, in terms of Video MMORPGs, indeed.

And, the fact that EQ IMMEDIATELY trumped UO's "Stellar" Subscriptions also proved that most people will stay at a Four Seasons, than in a mummy bag at the top of Everest, sucking on an Oxygen Bottle to stay alive, given a choice.

Some WILL suck the oxygen bottle, and like every minute of it.

Most won't. I am sure not saying that the people that climb Everest are BETTER than others (although in some regards, they are, indeed), or that the people that stay at a Four Seasons INSTEAD, are somehow better...it's just how the market goes.

<blockquote><hr>

One thing that all of them seem to not understand is; subscriptions have nothing to do with the amount of people playing.

[/ QUOTE ]

PSSSST: There WERE no other MMORPGs...before UO. Meridian 59 was the closest you could get...

<blockquote><hr>

Before Trammel there wasn't a lot of players having more than one account.

Internet fees and other like things were the cause.

On the other hand, today many players have multiple accounts; some as high as 10.

Housing was the number one reason for Trammel adoption.



[/ QUOTE ]

No...CHOICE was the number one reason. Choice in whether to have to put up with Leg Humping PK Trash Talking scum...or not. Choice in whether to have to look over the shoulder the ENTIRE time one spent doing PvE/PvM...or not.

Choice in whether UO wanted to continue to lose subscribers to games like EQ that DID offer the choice...or not.

<blockquote><hr>

So the Trammel system that many are rooting for, is in reality a failure.

The fact that many of the players are here posting just shows that the game is lacking in more ways than one now.


[/ QUOTE ]

The WAY they did Trammel sucked. No doubt the fact that they HAD to create Trammel (i.e. "Give The Players a Choice") was requisite to the game's survival.

I am sure you are good with Math.

Go take a look at EQ subscriptions just 6 months after EQ came out. Then subtract ALL of the incredibly stellar UO subscriptions at that same moment, from the EQ subscription number.

If the resulting number is Positive...you lose.

If it is negative, I will eat a big old heaping plate of crow.

Go do it now.

EQ had NO housing. EQ had NO Non-Con PvP...at ALL.

They kicked UO's ASS, Heart Seeker. It's ASS!!!

No Housing...No Non-Con...No Dry Looting...No Thieves...TRIPLE the Subscriptions of the HIGHEST number that the "Best" MMORPG EVAH had

Hmmm....

You lose.

<blockquote><hr>

Most that prefer the game now,either never played pre-Tram/(Connor) or were picked on in the sandbox and cried.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is likely better to cry ON the sand, than to have one's head so far IN the sand, as you folks do, that you can't even SEE who is kicking yer butt.

Just don't cry TOO hard.

You may run your make-up.

We wouldn't want that. Nothing worse than sandy mascara.

Sheesh.

 

[Guest]

Remove Ilsh, Malas and Tokuno from the list on Moongates. Leave yourselves with just Tram. Occasional events, but these would be quite rare. How great a shard do you think Tram would be if it was emptied of content? How contented would you be as a player under those circumstances? Hmm? Tram is just the same thing we have with more flowers and less fighting.

I wonder what would happen if a bunch of UO players who didn't play WoW went on their forums and started dictating what they should or should not have, based on the fact that they didn't like that game or want to join the PvP there. I think they'd be shown the door, very swiftly. If you don't play in Fel, it's none of your business what we get to play with there.

Wenchy

 

[imported_BlacK RaiN]

<blockquote><hr>


That Kick Ass Fun that took UO to 150K or 200K Subs in TWO YEARS!!!


[/ QUOTE ]

You mean Kick Ass fun when my TOP OF THE LINE 266mhz, 64mb ram (i upgraded a stick!) 4mb videocard... dial up modem computer ran this game?!?

That cost 3,500 dollars to purchase.

Oh... yeah, you mean when the internet was so new and people were discovering the internet and this game for that matter?

<blockquote><hr>

That Kick Ass Fun that was surpassed as quick as one can BLINK by a Sony MMORPG that had NO Kick Ass Fun!!

[/ QUOTE ]

lol! You mean the kick ass fun that was changed to mimick sony's type of fun and afterwards get anything near the subscription numbers you'd think a game would if that was the MAIN reason people were playing this game for.

hmm... must not be "that kick ass" type of fun that got sony all those players after all!! Otherwise... it would have worked for UO and so sorry... it didn't!

 

[imported_BlacK RaiN]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

Stig is making no sense/non sense in his posts.


[/ QUOTE ]

Of course, Heart Seeker.

And your posts are so convincingly cogent.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course, Surgeries.

And your posts are so convincing because they are misconstrued.

Please, tell us one more time why you have the right to your playstyle as long as everyone else only plays, their playstyle on YOUR terms!!

Oh.. wait...

 

[Surgeries]

<blockquote><hr>

In 2000 tram was a good idea for the few that needed it. but the way it was put in was wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

My guess is that no one, but Origin, "Needed" Trammel...but I will whole heartedly agree with you...they did an excessively poor job of creating the choice...no doubt about that.

And I will also hazard a guess that more than just a "few" players wanted a choice in how they played. Especially based on EQ's subs, at the same point in time.

And lastly, it isn't the server space that was, or is, the challenge in putting up a shard. It is the resources to make, and maintain, said shard. Along with the regular production shards, even WoW, with Millions of players, doesn't see the value.

I can certainly see why UO doesn't.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

can YOU answer this question?

remove champs and remove harrover from fel....
WHO "play" then with you ????
where ARE the tens of thousends pure pvp player in fel??

can you?

[/ QUOTE ]

You would have to step past that red gate for your answer and look for your self just cuase they dont sit at a bank useing UO as a glorified chat room dosnt mean they are not there.

A dev posted that at least 25% of the playerbase are pvpers fulltime that dosnt count the ones that pvp only a %age of their time or the ones that have no choice to pvm in tram sets to get what they need before they can compete. It also dosnt count all the players that may come back if they made a shard for them.

Take every active shard (none of teh dead shards) and look at the guilds on uo dot com. If you look at the biggest guilds at least 90% of them are PvPguilds. So really you have no reason to mock our playstyle and insult us by calling us all griefers. I rezkill only people that deserve it. I kill whoever cuase they are within the rules of my playstyle. I loot whoever because my RP disallows Farming our resources to sell on the other side of the gate they begged for their own safe area to do this so do it there. and the fact I dont want them to come back into battle anytime soon. But mostly I loot just pots,trapboxes,regs,bandies,PS

 

[imported_BlacK RaiN]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

In 2000 tram was a good idea for the few that needed it. but the way it was put in was wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

My guess is that no one, but Origin, "Needed" Trammel...but I will whole heartedly agree with you...they did an excessively poor job of creating the choice...no doubt about that.

And I will also hazard a guess that more than just a "few" players wanted a choice in how they played. Especially based on EQ's subs, at the same point in time.

And lastly, it isn't the server space that was, or is, the challenge in putting up a shard. It is the resources to make, and maintain, said shard. Along with the regular production shards, even WoW, with Millions of players, doesn't see the value.

I can certainly see why UO doesn't.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sony is a solid company with a huge Asian market

Blizzard is a solid company that makes solid games with a HUGE &lt;insert&gt;craft/game following.

EA has constantly mucked with the design of its game and the playstyles it's players enjoyed playing with-in it.

There are TONS of failed Con-PvP games out there and there are Non-Con PvP game success stories too such as Lineage which garner millions of players.


The problem I have with you and your total BS is that its so misconstrued to make it seem like your preferred playstyle is MORE important or MORE preferred than the bunches of other playstyles out there.

When it's not, so wake the [censored] up already ok? You might finally learn something other than being nonsensical...

Yet, I somehow doubt your pride would allow for something so... so... logical? Prove me wrong, please!!! It'll be a first.

 

[imported_BlacK RaiN]

<blockquote><hr>

Because you did not have a good time back then, it does not mean I did not have a good time, nor did it mean I was one of the bad guys.

[/ QUOTE ]

NO FREJA!!! NO WAY!!! THIS CAN'T BE TRUE!

 

[Guest]

Once put into place now days it would not be that hard We all know A revert would never happen. Thats why Fell only shards are needed. they can even go as far as mirroring the shards like they do for test deleteing tram and be done with it so you would have the choice of pacific or pacific PvP. so history is not wiped from the old servers either all the fell history can me moved to the mirror and fel deleted on old shard. but that could cause a problem via houseing so fel may have to stay on the old shard just w/o the fel ruleset but keep in guild wars, and faction wars so pvmers can learn to pvp.

I started playin UO in 98 im not some AOS allstar who knows nothing about the effects of what tram ruleset did to the game in all aspects from community to economy. Thats why I feel our playstyles need to be seperated.

 

[Der Rock]

-----------------------------------
Remove Ilsh, Malas and Tokuno from the list on Moongates. Leave yourselves with just Tram. Occasional events, but these would be quite rare. How great a shard do you think Tram would be if it was emptied of content? How contented would you be as a player under those circumstances? Hmm? Tram is just the same thing we have with more flowers and less fighting.
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is this ure argument?? are this ure fact´s ????

u want to know how to post facts and arguments???
listen:

UO was born -------------------- FULL (because nothing else)
Other games came------------- UO start to starve
Tram ------------ starving stopped, fell went emptier/tram full
ilsh,aos,se,me -----------fell emptier and emptier/ tramm still more
today --- fell almost dead/siege almost dead and tram still more

WoW 9 million of player, also many other games have multiple times more player then uo today.

do u realy think, UO is starving BECAUSE dev´s spent not enough time on fell and siege?

example: my son start playing uo, start pvp, after month of champs and pvp and WoW was there, he left UO, he say, f.. this sh..uo pvp system,every where only idi...ts and a..sh...s,dry looter, bigmouth,stupid unemployd criminel bla bla bla, u know young kids.
he now enjoy WoW, he do pvp a lot and has A LOT of fun to do this in WoW
he do the same what OVER 9000 000 other do
Do you realy think, UO has an pvp system which can enjoy MANY people
and do u realy think, pre aos would bring many people in uo ????

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

do u realy think, pre aos would bring many people in uo ????

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. Communities were stronger before AOS even stronger before Tram. The game cant revert to that time so A current UO with Fell only rules makes the most sence. Its obvious that you dont get the picture so I will explain it in a better way.

Take siege give it production shard rules mix to a consistency of Pancake batter bake at 420 for 2 hrs and bingo bango you have your Fell only shard. wich many many people will enjoy.

 

[imported_BlacK RaiN]

<blockquote><hr>

u want to know how to post facts and arguments???
listen:

UO was born -------------------- FULL (because nothing else)wrong, UO servers were full, even when EQ was competing with it.

Other games came------------- UO start to starve wrong, UO subscriptions didn't decline

Tram ------------ starving stopped, fell went emptier/tram full wrong... fell was very much, full.

ilsh,aos,se,me -----------fell emptier and emptier/ tramm still more
today wrong, UO has done nothing but decline in subscriptions since AoS.. a Trammel based expansion

--- fell almost dead/siege almost dead and tram still more wrong, Tram is dying too... and Siege would still be full had the Devs not ignored the problems for 4 years!!! that Trammel oriented expansions and publishes caused forcing the players to quit a game they loved because they got fed up with being disenfranchised.

[/ QUOTE ]

These are your facts?

LOL


Next time, why don't you try posting some actual facts... ok?

 

[Der Rock]

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Next time, why don't you try posting some actual facts... ok?
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9000 000+ in WoW
30 000 +/- in UO

enough actual fact´s??

 

[imported_BlacK RaiN]

<blockquote><hr>

-----------------------------------------------
Next time, why don't you try posting some actual facts... ok?
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9000 000+ in WoW
30 000 +/- in UO

enough actual fact´s??

[/ QUOTE ]

lol, really?

<blockquote><hr>

<pre>WOW Normal PvP RP RPPvP
EU 79 122 20 15
US 102 101 15 6
</pre>
EU
US

Also in EU, more PvP servers are fillet than Normal servers.
In US more Normal servers are fillet than PvP servers by ONE.

[/ QUOTE ]

So the number of players who prefer PvP oriented stuff vs Non-PvP oriented stuff is about 50/50

Thanks.

 

[Der Rock]

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Yes. Communities were stronger before AOS
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Yes, and with my LOVED DM ( DEUTSCHE MARK) i could buy double as much as i can today with this play-money we have now, called euro

dont live in the past, somethings u CANT bring back, they are gone,out, over,
it was the beginning of onlinegaming, most have changed, it will never be like it was the past

 

[Der Rock]

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Thanks, I don't know what you're trying to say but if you add to that... how many of WoW's PvP servers are full and how many of their "non-PvP" servers are full.

Then we'll talk... ok?
----------------------------------------

explain pls, dont understand

 

[imported_BlacK RaiN]

<blockquote><hr>

explain pls, dont understand

[/ QUOTE ]

I know... it's ok.

You never will.

 

[Der Rock]

---------------------------------
So the number of players who prefer PvP oriented stuff vs Non-PvP oriented stuff is about 50/50
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ah, and what ????
my son do both in WoW, many do both in WoW,
i would do it in UO, maybe 50/50 of player in UO would do it
if UO would have a PVP system,
UO HAS NO pvp system

u dont understand the point.
i am NOT against PvP,
UO has NO pvp playstyle, it is simple BS.

 

[Guest]

By his way of thinking Since every one I know in UO are pvpers that must mean the PvM playstyle is dead? Everyone is entitled to their playstyles not one is better then the other. no matter how bad you make it sound. People want things easy, people want a challenge. either way if your havin fun doing it it dosnt matter how the other person chooses to play. UO is about freedom or they would have a class, lvl, based game.

With UO you can choose how you want to play. someone danceing around your corpse sayin "I jus wtfpwned u noob I r teh leet" is hardly a defense to why people dont like pvp either way you are still seein gray sayin OoOoOoO in search of the nearest healer. most people choose not to pvp cuase mentally they can not handle the speed of things and thats alright. Chong would never be a good pvper

 

[Surgeries]

<blockquote><hr>

I know... it's ok.

You never will.


[/ QUOTE ]

YAY!!
Black Rain Finally Got a MIRROR!!!

And don't forget the best part you need to say:

"'Cause Gosh Darn It...People LIKE Me!!"

LOL.

Keep saying it.......................

And wait on your "Logic" to come true...

*Walks Away Humming "Over the Rainbow"*

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

Stig is making no sense/non sense in his posts.


[/ QUOTE ]

Of course, Heart Seeker.

And your posts are so convincingly cogent.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course, Surgeries.

And your posts are so convincing because they are misconstrued.

Please, tell us one more time why you have the right to your playstyle as long as everyone else only plays, their playstyle on YOUR terms!!

Oh.. wait...

[/ QUOTE ]

Everyone has the right to thier preffered playstyle. With the onset of trammel players were given the choice to better define the playstyle they would like to play.

Since then, players, and Developement Personnel have been trying to adjust it to the vision they have for tha game.

EVERYONE is guilty of this. The PvP side, the PvM side, the in betweens and the Developement people are all guilty of this.

The problem is most are not willing to comprimise. If a Trammel based player offers an opinion of what could get them to spend more time in Felucca, the Felucca players jump down their throats and tell them to stay in Trammel. This does not do well fro game growth.

On the same hand Felucca people try to have changes so they can go to other facets and the Trammel crowd jumps on them and says they made thier choice they need to live with it.

It is the attitudes and the unwillingness to have comprimise of any kind, and to accept others playstyle choices that prevents positive change from happening.

Look at the posts in this thread to see what I am referring to. There is no comprimise. The pvp people or the felucca people are not willing to negotiate a better game. Neither is the Trammel or pvm people willing it seems.

Maybe instead of calling each other names and trying to insult each other or trying to prove each other wrong, people should sit down and discuss, propose, negotiate a better UO.

 

[Surgeries]

<blockquote><hr>

Yet, I somehow doubt your pride would allow for something so... so... logical? Prove me wrong, please!!! It'll be a first.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just count up the number of Consensual PvP Games, that do NOT allow Dry Looting, Sh*t talking, full on Thieving...then add up the total Non-Consensual PvP Games that DO allow it.

You look like a bright lad.

The math part may throw you...but just keep at it....

If you need help...ask your Mom or Dad, or your Babysitter...they will likely help you...if you ask nice.

Proving you wong is as easy as it gets.

Getting the blind to see, as in Black Rain's abilities to actually SEE anything contrary to his own...well...that is quite another order, all together.

I am done with you. You diss the most cogent people on the boards, and hold yourself, and three others up as brilliant.

So be it.

Be brilliant. Go put your app in at some company that can use a "Bright and Logical" person like you. Make a MMORPG that puts the rest to shame.

I will keep playing UO, and reading U Hall.

Sans your childish comments, chides, and lack of cogent arguments.

Enjoy Ignore

*Click*

 

[imported_BlacK RaiN]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

Stig is making no sense/non sense in his posts.


[/ QUOTE ]

Of course, Heart Seeker.

And your posts are so convincingly cogent.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course, Surgeries.

And your posts are so convincing because they are misconstrued.

Please, tell us one more time why you have the right to your playstyle as long as everyone else only plays, their playstyle on YOUR terms!!

Oh.. wait...

[/ QUOTE ]

Everyone has the right to thier preffered playstyle.

[/ QUOTE ]

BINGO! BINGO! BINGO! DING DING DING DING DING!!!!

Someone reading this thread actually "gets it!!!"

*dances with joy*

Surgeries Wrote:
<blockquote><hr>

Enjoy Ignore

*Click*

[/ QUOTE ]

THANK GOD!!!

Maybe now you'll stop wasting my time with your childish, incoherent and pointless replies.

*dances with joy some more*

 

[Connor_Graham]

"So the number of players who prefer PvP oriented stuff vs Non-PvP oriented stuff is about 50/50 "

You're just seeing servers. The population counts on the US shards for the PvM only shards are much higher than the PvP ones.

 

[Guest]

I Have pvped in many games UO, EQ,SWG,WOW,Lin, Guild wars, UO hands down has the best PvP on the market.

UO does not advertise!!! in WoW Im in a guild on argent dawn with about 150+ players and out of those players only one has heard of UO because her husband used to play a couple years ago on my shard in a rp guild ELF. I posted PvP screens and vids from youtube on our private forums and got very good feedback enough to get them to start an account. none have come to my shard im westcoast and argent dawn is an east coast server but still I get the same replies that the UO system is way Better than WoW.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

Because you did not have a good time back then, it does not mean I did not have a good time, nor did it mean I was one of the bad guys.

[/ QUOTE ]

NO FREJA!!! NO WAY!!! THIS CAN'T BE TRUE!

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe Atlantic was the only shard, where both red and blue had fun.

Even when I was blue and only fighted when attacked, I had a great time.
I placed my first house at the peninsula SE of Brit, shared it with Naraz who very fast went red. He may be better known as Tical.

East wood was not the most peaceful place so I learned very fast, that for each PK I made to a friend, I had one less enemy. They turned out to be great and loyal friends.

I have a list of some of the Dread Lords I meet on my way before the public that gave us stat loss and turned them all blue.

Blank Knigth, Felix, Zargar, Torm, BELiAL AOD, Shadow sword, Man O War, Nemesis, Kali-Mar, Mandarin, Quella Devin, Sir Richard, Win, Hummble/Gay, Devildog, DeathCry, Plug, Skyblade, Ishorn Fireash, FletLess, Steele, Malace, Photonic, Solonor, Kain, Krell of Eshin, Setra of Eshin, TomaHawk, Han, Lady Zen, Kiljox, Moleman, Raekwon, Malinko, Infernos, Flennetar, Arcinian King, Whitehorn, Lucas, Quaker, Wisbaus, Rye Master, Murlock, Cain, Beth, Crowler, Jules Savadge, Hagen Van Troja, Lady draghixa, Mescaline

I did not success making then all to friends, special WIN gave me a lot of trouble when he camped my house a few days to get me. He did not get me but I did not success getting in my house this days.
The ones in bolt become good friends, you may know some of the names. Plug and Skyblade was red anti PK's (Pluggers)
Steele did not kill female chars.
FletLess was guildmaster of BLB, I joined them after the Rep public.
I think I miss Man O War, Kiljox, Ishorn Fireash, FletLess, Krell and Setra of Eshin most

That time was my best time in UO, even when I was playing on dial up from denmark and lagged as hell

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

"So the number of players who prefer PvP oriented stuff vs Non-PvP oriented stuff is about 50/50 "

You're just seeing servers. The population counts on the US shards for the PvM only shards are much higher than the PvP ones.

[/ QUOTE ]

That may be the case but on those normal,RP servers you see alot of green people running around, Fact is you have to PvP to get the highend gear on any server. Honor points come from mostly PvP.

 

[Der Rock]

------------------------------------
Fact is you have to PvP to get the highend gear on any server.
------------------------------------------------

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
Wow PvP items give u buffs for pvp fights ( pvp items not much usefull in pvm)
and u complain about AOS items and all this "crap" LOL

 

[imported_BlacK RaiN]

<blockquote><hr>

"So the number of players who prefer PvP oriented stuff vs Non-PvP oriented stuff is about 50/50 "

You're just seeing servers. The population counts on the US shards for the PvM only shards are much higher than the PvP ones.

[/ QUOTE ]

So... what you're saying is that there aren't millions of players who enjoy PvP? All this because slightly more players on a PvE oriented game enjoy PvE?

Did you look at Europe? More enjoy PvP... either way that matters none.

You're playstyle is no more preferred than mine... it is 50/50 in importance and in preference so accept that fact.

Then when we've finally come to this cross-roads, maybe we can begin discussing how to share this game we call UO, properly.

 

[Der Rock]

and remind, in the past 2-3 years, the Dev´s destroyed, devalued, "tweaked"
many arties and templates in uo for the sake of pvp
has it solved the main problem??? NO
but many pvm player feel insulted

 

[imported_BlacK RaiN]

<blockquote><hr>

and remind, in the past 2-3 years, the Dev´s destroyed, devalued, "tweaked"
many arties and templates in uo for the sake of pvp
has it solved the main problem??? NO
but many pvm player feel insulted

[/ QUOTE ]

It's helped the main problem because PvP finally is moving to a state where everyone can enjoy it from the casual player to the hardcore player.

Did you just skip over this post made by me on page 6?

<blockquote><hr>

BTW

I simply cannot wait till the day the Devs decide to enhance loot dropped from monsters!

Hunting will be fun again!

[/ QUOTE ]

We on Siege want this game to be fun for ALL of our players...

our crafters, our PvMers, our PvPers, our RPers, our everyone.

This HAS helped tremendously because we are finally getting to a point where it is understood that EVERYONE is important... not just the Trammy types.

 

[Guest]

Explain please why this continues. The sides will never see each other because there is no halfway. For the majority the "halfway" is having a Tram and a Fel on each shard. For the rest it's all or nothing. *shakes fist* Darn those casual PvPers!

Meanwhile the argument continues and turns into an insult-fest when the best of reasoning has already been given and there's nothing left. So let's accept the facts and move on.

What I fail to grasp is why anyone would want a pvp only server. We are talking pvp servers without the switch. A lot of comparison to WOW is going on here when WOW pvp is nothing like UO pvp at all and anyone who's played WOW knows it. Anyone who hasn't shouldn't comment about it because you just don't know what you're talking about.

So what are the facts?

There's a certain group of people who want a PVP only server and a NonPvP server. Basically "if you don't want to PvP get off my shard". Okay. No one has really said why but that's okay. Maybe they don't want the occasional Trammy at the champ spawn. Who knows. It makes absolutely no sense.

There's the rest of the world who are pretty much content with having a Fel and a Tram. Why? Well maybe they PvP sometimes. Maybe when they want an adrenaline rush they go hunt in Fel. Maybe they have friends who PvP and they'd hate to have them move to another shard. Maybe they live in Fel and enjoy the atmosphere, but enjoy playing in Tram. Who cares. Really. If you don't PvP get off my shard? Really?

I think there's been a huge mis-comprehension of Dragon's post. I don't criticize that by the OP because English is not her first language. The rest of you who have misread it (you really do know who you are) I can't comment about.


edited because I can't spell worth a damn

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

is this ure argument?? are this ure fact´s ????

[/ QUOTE ]
I was discussing Fel and Tram's interest level for players when you take away all the added extras that are now available in the Tram ruleset areas. Though if you spell "your" as "ure", I probably shouldn't expect your reading comprehension to be at university level.

Nobody, not you or anyone else can say with any certainty how good UO would have been had it followed a path where Tram was not created. Or where more safe areas like player towns were added to the Fel we started with. So you have no facts at all.

<blockquote><hr>


do u realy think, UO is starving BECAUSE dev´s spent not enough time on fell and siege?

[/ QUOTE ]
Did I say UO was starving because Fel and Siege was not getting attention? Nope. I said that Fel needs more content to compete with Tram. UO will probably always be a more retro game until either KR is fixed up or we get a graphics set that rivals the new games.

Why did EA add more content and land masses if Tram was enough to satisfy their customers on it's own? Apparently they thought it needed more. They developed the game for players like you. All Fel players would like is a share of that development.

Why would I care how many players play in WoW? EA developed UO down the Tram road, there were others that could have been chosen, including non-con PvP like in Lineage. Sorry if that isn't what you want to hear, but we don't all want our own fluffy cloud of protection.

Wenchy

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

and remind, in the past 2-3 years, the Dev´s destroyed, devalued, "tweaked"
many arties and templates in uo for the sake of pvp
has it solved the main problem??? NO
but many pvm player feel insulted

[/ QUOTE ]

I think more PvPers are insulted by the way the devs made the game to easy to where they have no choice but to PvP. And since the game is on easy mode we get forced to play a playstyle that bores us at its current state so we can equip to do what we like to do.

<blockquote><hr>


LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
Wow PvP items give u buffs for pvp fights ( pvp items not much usefull in pvm)
and u complain about AOS items and all this "crap" LOL

[/ QUOTE ]

Considering I play games just to play against other people (grandpa said i could go blind if i played with myself) I suppose I wouldnt know about PvM cept that you need it to lvl and once you reached a point you cant go back really for anything worth while and once at lvl 70 the endgame is pretty much PvP on every server. Im starting sence you are posting here just to troll Our playstyle.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

------------------------------------
Thanks, I don't know what you're trying to say but if you add to that... how many of WoW's PvP servers are full and how many of their "non-PvP" servers are full.

Then we'll talk... ok?
----------------------------------------

explain pls, dont understand

[/ QUOTE ]

<pre>. RP RPPvP
+ Normal PvP
US 117/44 107/23
<font color=8B7E66>UK 40/0 68/14
D 28/18 44/5
F 17/4 20/2
E 4/2 5/3</font color=8B7E66>
EU 89/24 137/24
all 206/68 244/47</pre>

Keep in mind, that EU only have 79 normal vs 122 PvP servers and German do have most filled normal shards vs english speaking who have non filled normal shards.

 

[Guest]

Agree

 

[Stigmatas]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

Ok, yes of course there is more content, NOW, in Tram than Fel. But ask yourself these questions:

Why did people move, and hunt soley in Trammel when it was created. There was no Doom, there were no peerless.

Why did people put the majority of their shops in Trammel? Even the fel players?

[/ QUOTE ]

People take the easy and more safe way.
I had a friend who moved to Siege, she wanted to play in Felucca but she always ended up hunting in Trammel even when she enjoyed the risk.
With switching to Siege she solve the problem. She stayed on Siege until she a few years ago got RL problems and no Internet/PC and had to stop playing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Had nothing to do with people escaping FORCED pvp upon them then eh? Nothing to do with the fact they simply never wanted to pvp? Look at the dungeons post trammel. They were full, because people could adventure without being harassed by "bone dewd" and "plate dewd".

#1 reason.

 

[Guest]

now why would you bring facts into this, i mean some people like to toss in what IS the way it is without backing it up, and then they stand so firmly behind it without actually proving it, other than by other peoples sayings...... facts that back up pvp must be fake!! i mean, people cant like to challenge each other!! god, what are those people going to say against that!

 

[imported_BlacK RaiN]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

Ok, yes of course there is more content, NOW, in Tram than Fel. But ask yourself these questions:

Why did people move, and hunt soley in Trammel when it was created. There was no Doom, there were no peerless.

Why did people put the majority of their shops in Trammel? Even the fel players?

[/ QUOTE ]

People take the easy and more safe way.
I had a friend who moved to Siege, she wanted to play in Felucca but she always ended up hunting in Trammel even when she enjoyed the risk.
With switching to Siege she solve the problem. She stayed on Siege until she a few years ago got RL problems and no Internet/PC and had to stop playing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Had nothing to do with people escaping FORCED pvp upon them then eh? Nothing to do with the fact they simply never wanted to pvp? Look at the dungeons post trammel. They were full, because people could adventure without being harassed by "bone dewd" and "plate dewd".

#1 reason.

[/ QUOTE ]

Had not as much to do with it as you make it sound.

Sure, some people wanted to play without the interference of other players but, a lot also didn't.

Felucca dungeons were full too... I know because I was one of the players in them constantly along with the many others I used to see.

I know this is hard for you to fathom... but, a lot of players enjoyed the added risk of a murderer trying to kill them in a dungeon and on top of that a lot of players also enjoyed protecting the dungeons from the pks for those players... too.

You're so full of BS the way you generalize what everyone wanted just because it was what YOU personally wanted.

Get over yourself.

 

[Stigmatas]

LOL!

I'm right because I'm wrong!


Yea, it's somewhat entertaining, trying to talk sense to the senseless. I know it's futile, but I can have my fun can't I?

I've been painting...tis why I haven't been around.

Spring in the air and all that. Chasing girlies.

I think the one thing we can all agree on....give em a pvp shard or two. And most certainly, their own forums. But then I couldn't kill script miners

....I guess I could lead a crusade for the next 8 years on why I should be able to grief them. Even though they actually deserve it! (the script miners...that is).

 

[Guest]

Concerning some antisocial behavior I have seen, It is too bad you can't get a group together, capture the little butts that are doing it, Tar and feather their Butts and run them out of town on a rail.

 

[imported_EnigmaMaitreya]

<blockquote><hr>

...
...

So what are the facts?

...

There's the rest of the world who are pretty much content with having a Fel and a Tram. Why? Well maybe they PvP sometimes. Maybe when they want an adrenaline rush they go hunt in Fel. Maybe they have friends who PvP and they'd hate to have them move to another shard. Maybe they live in Fel and enjoy the atmosphere, but enjoy playing in Tram. Who cares. Really. If you don't PvP get off my shard? Really?

...

edited because I can't spell worth a damn

[/ QUOTE ]

As long as we are doing the 100% speculation as factoids ....

"There's the rest of the world who are pretty much content with having a Fel and a Tram."

When the argument for a PvP switch was being made, DD and his fan bots stated very clearly and definitively that it was obvious that everyone on UO loved PvP. How did he know? Simple logic. They were there. If they were there they obviously LOVED PvP.

Let us not inject the REAL facts there was NO alternative.

People being in a place (in this case a Shard with Felluca and Trammel) does NOT mean they are content or happy with it. Only one FACTOID can be derived, they prefer UO over other MMORPG's.

To pretend that they Want PvP is to be aa blind as DD ever was to what the customer base wanted. It is really humorous to hear people claim that the overwhelming majority of players vacated Felluca for Trammel, leaving multiple houses for a single house that imposed far greater tiem limits on them than they had in FElluca, just so they could have a house in Trammel and go play in Felluca

That they would abandon characters, accounts, houses months if not years of effort and friends to go to EQ.

While no one can speak the Factoids of peoples minds/reasons, it is rather incredible to portray their actions as being consistent with them being content with PvP in their life when they have purposefully, intentionally, at cost to them moved to a PvP free environment.

 

[Der Rock]

------------------------------------------------------
It's helped the main problem because PvP finally is moving to a state where everyone can enjoy it from the casual player to the hardcore player.
------------------------------------------------------------------------


ahhhhhh, thats why we see all these " siege is dead" or "we want"content" in fell"

i understand,
to many people enjoy it, u have no room in fel, u cant move 2 steps without pushing others biside
muhahahahaha

 

[Guest]

You talk as if I did not include everyone in my post. I mentioned those who are discontent with the way things are as well as those who are fine with it here:
<blockquote><hr>

There's a certain group of people who want a PVP only server and a NonPvP server.....etc.etc.

There's the rest of the world who are pretty much content with having a Fel and a Tram....etc.etc.


[/ QUOTE ]
Do you mean to imply that there's some other group of people? A third bunch?

 

[Guest]

While content goes to the Tram facets and nobody does anything to make Fel more enjoyable for players, players are going to pick Tram for that reason as well as for safety. I don't like the ruleset one iota, yet I'm going there. Virtually every player does because the strings were put in place that require it.

Apparently it's inconceivable that anyone could devise game content that would reverse the departure from Fel. Or that such content could be fun for a Tram player too. We're not even supposed to expect any fair share of content that exists already. In other words, join us in Tram or just leave so we can "win" UO from you. Crazy. More than a little selfish. I'm ok on my side of the fence but screw you guys heh. Lovely attitude to have. I was taught to share as a kid, apparently some still need to learn this.

Now arties are easier to acquire and runics have been changed, it's a good time to look again at old Fel and see what we can do to improve it. At the least so it just gets used in the bits around Yew gate and champ spawns.

Wenchy

 

[Stigmatas]

<blockquote><hr>

It is really humorous to hear people claim that the overwhelming majority of players vacated Felluca for Trammel, leaving multiple houses for a single house that imposed far greater tiem limits on them than they had in FElluca, just so they could have a house in Trammel and go play in Felluca

[/ QUOTE ]


Humorous ...and sad at the same time. Sad that it is some of "their" ways of justifying why people went to trammel in DROVES. Yea, all for the housing lol.

Those who did it, the majority, know why we really did it. The actual reason. To get away from "them".

Another funny thing of mention. They say Trammel didn't get rid of the griefers. Granted, you had lurers, trash talkers, etc. But one thing they could not do, was kill you, and take your lootz. You could simply put em on ingore, and go about you merry way. I'd be willing to make a significant wager that most the trash talkers you saw in trammel then, and NOW, are visiting over from Felucca anyway

. Seen it too many times.

One example: I remember a trammel IDOC, was quite a few people around, some yacking. Nothing bad. Then a few hours before it fell, the Fel guilds showed up, and some pretty horrid speach ensued. Wasn't a problem till "they" showed up.

Again, I thank them. In a way, it's the pk, so called "risk" takers, so called "challenge seekers", that forged the creation of trammel.

Karma.

Trammel.

I thank thee.

 

[Guest]

LOL I know many people myself included that opened a 2nd account just to place a large house back in 2000. I remember Placing my large tower right where my large tower was in fel. I hardly used it for almost a year. it just sat there while I log in once a week to refresh it. Back then housing was full and any new space was a must have. Do I still hang in tram? nope only when Im forced to or burning counts on my blue.

 

[imported_EnigmaMaitreya]

<blockquote><hr>

While content goes to the Tram facets and nobody does anything to make Fel more enjoyable for players, players are going to pick Tram for that reason as well as for safety. I don't like the ruleset one iota, yet I'm going there. Virtually every player does because the strings were put in place that require it.

Apparently it's inconceivable that anyone could devise game content that would reverse the departure from Fel. Or that such content could be fun for a Tram player too. We're not even supposed to expect any fair share of content that exists already. In other words, join us in Tram or just leave so we can "win" UO from you. Crazy. More than a little selfish. I'm ok on my side of the fence but screw you guys heh. Lovely attitude to have. I was taught to share as a kid, apparently some still need to learn this.

Now arties are easier to acquire and runics have been changed, it's a good time to look again at old Fel and see what we can do to improve it. At the least so it just gets used in the bits around Yew gate and champ spawns.

Wenchy

[/ QUOTE ]

Were I am coming from is this, Trammel is a frozen environment. with externally enforced social rules.

Felluca is a 100% open environment, with social rules defined and enforced by the players.

Trammel can not change what it is. Felluca is what the players make of it.

To use the EQ PvP server. One over whelming killer on that shard is the insistence that EQ define what they are, what they can and can not do, to entertain them. What they so totally miss is this, PvP is Player versus Player. The entertainment is in interacting with a fellow human being. This can not be legislated, dictated to, scripted by an external agency.

You created a town a community. Dare to create a shard wide community and reject UO Employee intervention. Boot the UO employees out. Mandate they be subtle, hidden rarely felt Forces of Nature

Believe it -&gt; "If you build it, they will come".

The Trammel players have nothing to do with it. They are so totally not relevant. They do not have the power to define who and what you are ... unless you give them such power.

And it is so totally not true that Felluca Entertainment can not be created that would attract the Trammel players. The entire enchilada the hole 10 yards, the end game, is having fun. The most simple and natural thing for every single UO subscriber in the World. Just have fun, create a Community that is dedicated to everyone having fun. You do that and your shard will be so full they will need to create a new server.

In my short time back, I see a UO community that doesn't see itself for what it is. It has a very hard time seeing itself as a community at all. It perceives itself as groups of people and in so doing it misperceives its true nature.

I am all for a truly functional Felluca. It will never come about if the inhabitants demand that the Employee's create it, run it and maintain it for them.