Adding Power Scrolls to Tram

[TB Cookie [W]]

I thought I made that clear with the bad egg comment. Does that give you some sort of right to label everyone from a certain group as imbeciles? Is that not unlike labeling everyone who has a certain belief a certain way, or looks a certain way as having a particular mindset?

From my perspective as a PvPer in Fel, who has played on EU and Atlantic, it's way more than the odd bad egg, it's 90%+ of the PvP community.
Edit again - Because the PvP community has got so small - my suggestions would help open that community up again.
I do apologise to the odd 10%, most of whom are in my guild!
Again, you probably know this, but will not acknowledge it.

 

[Cetric]

From my perspective as a PvPer in Fel, who has played on EU and Atlantic, it's way more than the odd bad egg, it's 90%+ of the PvP community.
I do apologise to the odd 10%, most of whom are in my guild!
Again, you probably know this, but will not acknowledge it.

Cant say I do - there is some very vocal douchbags and a whole lot of people that don't even turn on gen chat (unless needed) that I play with. I may appear as a vocal douchebag for the last few days, but trust me, I'm only being vocal to get taming nerfed so friends and enemies stop quitting =)

This thread only even became a thing (again!) as a threat for said attempt to get taming nerfed in pvp

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

Cant say I do - there is some very vocal douchbags and a whole lot of people that don't even turn on gen chat (unless needed) that I play with. I may appear as a vocal douchebag for the last few days, but trust me, I'm only being vocal to get taming nerfed so friends and enemies stop quitting =)

This thread only even became a thing (again!) as a threat for said attempt to get taming nerfed in pvp

I accept this thread could be some sort of revenge thread.

Can you blame them?
Have you seen how you guys have acted towards them, forever?
Especially in that thread, always wanting to directly or indirectly nerf them.

But step back a bit, think it through, look at how bad PvP is regardless.
Look at how bad the whole situation is.
This suggestion, may really be part of a better solution.

Rather than carry on fighting each other as you have forever, how about coming up with something different?
UO is just so different to how it ever was, 100% of the values I used to believe in, just don't exist anymore.

Re the Taming thread - if I had ever dared to ask for a PvP change, I would have been told to adapt.
ADAPT - is the 100% hardcore PvP response to this situation. Anything else is weakness.
I said it in the other post, if you are dying to tamers, there is something seriously wrong with your PvP ability, or your template, or your character.
You need to ADAPT.

In my old days, I was that 100% hardcore PvPer, I'm not anymore.
90% of the deaths, are in fact Dismount related - yet no-one is picking up on that?
That is the crucial aspect, Dismount itself, has no part in PvP, who wants to be dismounted, so they can be mindlessly ganked by a horde?
Look beyond the pets.

 

[Cetric]

I accept this thread could be some sort of revenge thread.

Can you blame them?
Have you seen how you guys have acted towards them, forever?

But step back a bit, think it through, look at how bad PvP is regardless.
Look at how bad the whole situation is.
This suggestion, may really be part of a better solution.

Rather than carry on fighting each other as you have forever, how about coming up with something different?
UO is just so different to how it ever was, 100% of the values I used to believe in, just don't exist anymore.

Re the Taming thread - if I had ever dared to ask for a PvP change, I would have been told to adapt.
ADAPT - is the 100% hardcore PvP response to this situation. Anything else is weakness.
I said it in the other post, if you are dying to tamers, there is something seriously wrong with your PvP ability, or your template, or your character.
You need to ADAPT.

In my old days, I was that 100% hardcore PvPer, I'm not anymore.
90% of the deaths, are in fact Dismount related - yet no-one is picking up on that?
That is the crucial aspect, Dismount itself, has no part in PvP, who wants to be dismounted, so they can be mindlessly ganked by a horde?
Look beyond the pets.

I'd be all over a new system if it was proper. I think a lot of good things could be done blending the VvV system, Town Buff/Governor concepts, and just shoving it into the Fel dungeons as a battleground.

Here is my issue with it, and this exact thing comes up consistently

Do you have confidence that a system could be implemented with substantial changes, and not be a gigantic mess that gets unaccepted and just causes more people to get upset/leave? Did you play around with what they came up with for a faction revamp in the late 2000s? I'm not sure they have the man power and general backing to make sweeping changes, let alone tweaks like that one.

I can get what you are saying with dismount. If it didn't exist? Interesting concept, and would need some real thought process put behind it for the whatifs. I can get behind that though.

 

[TB Cookie [W]]

I'd be all over a new system if it was proper. I think a lot of good things could be done blending the VvV system, Town Buff/Governor concepts, and just shoving it into the Fel dungeons as a battleground.

Here is my issue with it, and this exact thing comes up consistently

Do you have confidence that a system could be implemented with substantial changes, and not be a gigantic mess that gets unaccepted and just causes more people to get upset/leave? Did you play around with what they came up with for a faction revamp in the late 2000s? I'm not sure they have the man power and general backing to make sweeping changes, let alone tweaks like that one.

I can get what you are saying with dismount. If it didn't exist? Interesting concept, and would need some real thought process put behind it for the whatifs. I can get behind that though.

Based on the last 20 years, of course I don't have confidence!
To me, it went badly wrong at AoS, when the whole item game came into play.
For others, it was slightly before that, at Powerscrolls, however I loved that period, it was a buzz.

But yes, I believe a PvP system needs a huge revamp.

Look at what they have done recently though;

• Taming Patch was a success, and it was huge in a way, and very unexpected.
• BoD Crafting patch, again, pretty sophisticated, and a huge success in itself (I personally love this one ) - the massive shame is that Crafting has no relevance to endgame anymore - my suggestion tried to bring crafting back into comparability again, why can't Crafting be a route for endgame items?
• They did kill off the old factions system, which had sadly died, they brought in VvV. which is a good concept, just missing that spark right now, it needs an overhaul, a little extra something - I agree with your points on how to improve it here.

They've shown in a few patches, they can do some pretty sweeping changes.

The PvP patch, I considered a failure, it has pretty much decimated pure mages. Mages with weapons is an abomination for me.

Onto Dismount, it didn't used to exist.
First brought in with bola's I think, just after the age of power-scrolls.
I don't remember the exact order of events anymore, so long ago, but there was a time, when never-ending running became a problem, but in my experience, the time of Mount Fatigue was the most effective time when Dismount was not necessary. It was more fair, it seemed more fun also - you got a chance to run, and rescue yourself, but you couldn't run forever.

 

[Pawain]

I thought I made that clear with the bad egg comment. Does that give you some sort of right to label everyone from a certain group as imbeciles? Is that not unlike labeling everyone who has a certain belief a certain way, or looks a certain way as having a particular mindset?

So, the pet revamp has finally given a PvMer a chance to get powerscrolls. Is that why the PvP community is outraged? Or it is because a pet gave you a boo boo at Yew gate?

I'm all for the devs doing a VvV revamp after the 20th deal.

 

[sacred fungus]

I would only agree if Fel spawns had a much better chance to receive 120 power scrolls. Also Fel champs should drop some guaranteed prized legendaries. There should be some type of reward for the increased risk.Then I would be ok with scrolls in Tram.

But I would still worry that Multi Boxers will take over the power scroll market in trammel.

 

[BeaIank]

I would only agree if Fel spawns had a much better chance to receive 120 power scrolls. Also Fel champs should drop some guaranteed prized legendaries. There should be some type of reward for the increased risk.Then I would be ok with scrolls in Tram.

But I would still worry that Multi Boxers will take over the power scroll market in trammel.

Increased artefact drops from the bosses in fel would be nice too.
Heck, make it so that tram spawns only drop 3 scrolls instead of the normal 6, with no chance for 115s and 120s and with no option to use justice to double the scroll drops.
Also, no champ skulls either.

It would still be much better to take the risk of being raided once a blue moon and do spawns in Fel for the larger rewards.

 

[Martell]

So, the pet revamp has finally given a PvMer a chance to get powerscrolls. Is that why the PvP community is outraged?

I'm all for the devs doing a VvV revamp after the 20th deal.

PVMers have had the same chance as every other player to get a powerscroll since the item was introduced.... can't say the same about my red characters and the chance to get an orny, crimson, slither, or any of the 10+ other tram only items that are worth over 40mil.

Excellent points you're bringing here.

Edit: as Leet pointed out, the vast vast majority of valuable content in this game is geared solely towards tram and it's the pvpers that are the end market for that gear.

 

[CovenantX]

Can anyone tell me what the difference between #1 & #2 is?

#1) Replica LT sash from Felucca Semidar
#2) Replica LT sash from Ilshenar Semidar

Then do your best to explain why it's not taking anything away from one or the other side.

 

[BeaIank]

Can anyone tell me what the difference between #1 & #2 is?

#1) Replica LT sash from Felucca Semidar
#2) Replica LT sash from Ilshenar Semidar

Then do your best to explain why it's not taking anything away from one or the other side.

We always know where to find Felucca Semidar?

Other than that, I have nothing. They are the same item, with the same drop chance at both facets.

 

[CovenantX]

We always know where to find Felucca Semidar?

Other than that, I have nothing. They are the same item, with the same drop chance at both facets.

Haha, ok, you got me.

But an LT sash can drop from several different spawn champs, including Oaks (which is a static spawn in Fel-T2A and in Ilshenar), and the tokuno spawn can drop that as well.
there are equivalents.

(maybe I should have used Lord Oaks for my example lol)

 

[Turbo]

The only argument is pvpers want to keep fighting people that dont want to pvp. They like easy kills with their cheat scripts running on people that have no interest in wasting their time fighting back so they can then pretend they are badass in chat.

If ps were available in tram or through some other method those non pvpers would go there and the people who do like to pvp would still get their ps in fel where they can pvp while getting them.

Any real pvper wouldnt care what the pvm players do they would be more interested in getting more actual pvp going against challenging opponents and systems in place that encourage non pvpers to join in the fight.

The whole argument about ps pricing and omg the economy is total bs. No doubt you already have billions from letting pvm players earn the scrolls so you can come in at the last min to take them so why do you need more billions? Wouldnt you rather change the game to bring more players back than continue down that toxic path of gameplay that can potentially lower the playerbase by griefing them constantly?

 

[Nexus]

100% I agree scrolls should be available for both faucets.

Yea! Both Faucets!

 

[Pawain]

Wouldnt you rather change the game to bring more players back than continue down that toxic path of gameplay that can potentially lower the playerbase by griefing them constantly?

Reading what they say on the forums it does not seem they want any more PvPers to play. They don't want a challenge in their risk vs reward.

 

[CovenantX]

Reading what they say on the forums it does not seem they want any more PvPers to play. They don't want a challenge in their risk vs reward.

What are you talking about?

The challenge is doing the spawn AND fending off raiders.

In Trammel the challenge is doing the spawn.... no additional risk. Thus no additional reward.

 

[Pawain]

What are you talking about?

The challenge is doing the spawn AND fending off raiders.

In Trammel the challenge is doing the spawn.... no additional risk. Thus no additional reward.

I guess you have not noticed the threads proclaiming Pets are ruining PvP. They don't want Trammies to be able to do Fel spawns since they stand a chance of stopping raiders. They also complain about every new item or template change that gives them an owie. Status Quo is the Fel motto as the numbers decline.

 

[CovenantX]

I guess you have not noticed the threads proclaiming Pets are ruining PvP. They don't want Trammies to be able to do Fel spawns since they stand a chance of stopping raiders. They also complain about every new item or template change that gives them an owie.

and tamers were capable of pvping as well as being capable of doing fel-spawns BEFORE the pet revamp. lol?

Status Quo is the Fel motto as the numbers decline.

Perhaps you haven't been playing UO very long.

Or you must have missed the part where Trammel constantly has updates & added content, where Fel is ignored 90%+ of the time.

 

[Pawain]

and tamers were capable of pvping as well as being capable of doing fel-spawns BEFORE the pet revamp. lol?

Theres been a lot of spawn videos made. Can you find one that has 5 guys dragging around GDs and beating off raiders?

 

[CovenantX]

Theres been a lot of spawn videos made. Can you find one that has 5 guys dragging around GDs and beating off raiders?

Nope, because Sampires are more efficient.

I've done spawns with my tamer before, and fended off raiders, why does it seem no one else can do it?

 

[Great DC]

Don't you realize that the OP pets would be abused by the pvpers as well which completely negates any trammel player from taking any advantage of it. If they are OP theyre OP across the board, everyone can abuse it.

 

[Pawain]

Nope, because Sampires are more efficient.

I've done spawns with my tamer before, and fended off raiders, why does it seem no one else can do it?

They can now! And the forums explode! PvP dying a painful death from Tamers Online

They don't want change. They don't want new players in Fel.

 

[CovenantX]

They can now! And the forums explode! PvP dying a painful death from Tamers Online

They don't want change. They don't want new players in Fel.

I'm aware that Tamers are OP and need to be re-balanced in pvp. Powerscrolls added to pets is not what makes pets overpowered...

as I said in my previous post, Tamers have always been able to do champ spawns, they didn't need help for spawns OR pvp.
The needed more control over their pets in Pvm, the pet revamp simply gave them way too much, hence the thread you linked.

~80% of pets deal their melee damage as Physical with no options to change it... It was a problem before & it's still a problem.
No pets have options for Slayer Bonuses/Vulnerabilities.... It was a problem before & it's still a problem after the revamp.

Powerscrolls aren't the problem as to why tamers Pets are Overpowered... Sure, they contribute to it, but people don't realize the incredibly small effect Powerscrolls even have on their pets overall power.

Your pet gets more damage increase from Strength & 24-33 base damage per second, than it does from Tactics and Anatomy combined, especially the +20 from each powerscroll.

I'll just add this here, to show the actual gains from the addition of "Powerscrolls" to pets.


Pet with maxed Strength of 700 & Base damage of 24-33 Without Powerscrolls 100.0 Tactics & 100.0 Anatomy: (Auto-attacks only)

Final Damage vs 0% resistances = 105-144 per 1.25s
Target with all 70s = 32-43 per 1.25s
Player target with all 70s (-30%) = 22-30 per 1.25

700 strength*, With Powerscrolls +120.0 Tactics, 120.0 Anatomy with a base damage of 24-33: (Auto-attacks only)

Final damage vs 0% resistances = 111-152 per 1.25s Gain +6 - +8
target with all 70s = 33-46 per 1.25s Gain +1 - +3
Player target with all 70s (-30%) = 23-32 per 1.25s Gain +1 - +2


*Strength adds an extra +5% damage increase at 100, if that's a reoccurring +5% for every 100 strength it would add an extra 30% damage increase to the above examples.

Strength by itself provides more Damage increase (215% or 245%*) than both skills in Tactics & Anatomy @100.0 would provide 123.75% damage increase without scrolls, & 146.5% with scrolls, a +22.75% damage increase by adding 120 tactics & anatomy to your pet(s).

Edited for clarity.

 

[Yadd of Legends]

So you're saying if pets didn't use any powerscrolls at all, they could still be OP against players?

 

[sacred fungus]

Fighting over power scrolls is the only form of objective based pvp in this game. It would be sad if that went away. I guess there would still be Yew, but that is just random pointless fighting without any goals.

 

[Uvtha]

So, the pet revamp has finally given a PvMer a chance to get powerscrolls.

I don't think it's any easier for pvmers to get power scrolls with this publish... If you weren't getting them before, I don't see why would would be getting them now.

 

[Crak Lord]

LOL Give me a Break power scrolls should and will stay in fel...

 

[Crak Lord]

Wait, let me get this straight, someone suggests (for the umpteenth time) that 120 scrolls drop in Tram, and people say "hells no" because they force PvMers to Fel.

What do the PvPers want? A good fight with someone who wants it, or to roll PvM-oriented spawners late in game (as in when the champ is up) kill the fodder and take their scrolls...to turn around and sell them back for big $$?

Seriously, pick one:

• Skilled people to fight who ACTUALLY WANT TO FIGHT, or
• Sheep, ready for the slaughter you big, strong, PvPer, you.

You really can't have it both ways an expect the game to keep merrily chugging along. I refer you to the multitudinous threads complaining about PvP as Exhibit A.

At some point @Mesanna needs to realize she's supporting a playstyle that nearly killed UO by handing them the market on scrolls. Trammel was created for a reason. UO wouldn't have survived without it.

LOL

 

[RhelHalcyon]

Thats your argument? That i should instead play this game for the reason YOU want me to and go pvm in tram ? My play style isn't doing roof or killing peerless, its killing people.

Yet you wish to force people who don't wish to kill people to play your style to experience a large part of the game - skill up their characters.

Pvmers aren't bound to trammel either... what's your point?

I know two sentences are very difficult to finish reading but if you're going to quote me and bother replying, you may as well read to the end. You know where I specified the "without issue or drawback to your play style."

 

[Uvtha]

Yet you wish to force people who don't wish to kill people to play your style to experience a large part of the game - skill up their characters.

No one is forced. Are your characters not skilled up? Mine are.

 

[Alex"Drake Iron Heart"CS]

Then i cant kill trammies in tram! Stick to the deal, take it or leave it?

Not like you killing much anyways.......

 

[Lord Gandalf]

Not like you killing much anyways.......

Day and night

 

[CovenantX]

I know two sentences are very difficult to finish reading but if you're going to quote me and bother replying, you may as well read to the end. You know where I specified the "without issue or drawback to your play style."

... I guess I have to spell out every little thing to you as well, just like the rest of the people who haven't caught up yet... (Even though you should have picked it up the first time you said it.)

The fact of the matter is, IF Powerscrolls came from any spawn Tram & Fel, It would reduce the frequency of dungeon pvp which Obviously takes away from one playstyle. Thus it's an Issue and a drawback to Pvper's Playstyle.



Trammel has almost 100% of UO's content, and a very very small fraction of Felucca's Content isn't available outside of Fel.... farm something in your land (Trammel) and sell/trade it for things you are clearly afraid to farm yourself... just like the pvpers do for other items or are you too lazy to farm Trammel's risk-free content too?

 

[Tina Small]

As part of revamping the new player experience, I'd love to see the developers add a set of quests you could complete to obtain legendary power scrolls. The quest chains could be themed for different groupings of skills (e.g., mages, tamers, warriors, thieves) and upon completion of a quest chain you could select the skill for the power scroll you would receive. As with the various quest chains in Ter Mur, the further along in the chain you get, the longer the waiting period would be between being able to complete each step of the chain so you couldn't just do back-to-back quests.

Something like this as an alternative to doing Fel champ spawns or having to buy gold from or paying cash to third party sources to obtain power scrolls would certainly appeal to me and probably also to other people, especially newcomers who have no interest in participating in PvP or supporting third party companies. It could also spur more activity on shards other than Atlantic with the scrolls now being shard-bound.

 

[Lord Gandalf]

... I guess I have to spell out every little thing to you as well, just like the rest of the people who haven't caught up yet... (Even though you should have picked it up the first time you said it.)

The fact of the matter is, IF Powerscrolls came from any spawn Tram & Fel, It would reduce the frequency of dungeon pvp which Obviously takes away from one playstyle. Thus it's an Issue and a drawback to Pvper's Playstyle.

View attachment 68378

Trammel has almost 100% of UO's content, and a very very small fraction of Felucca's Content isn't available outside of Fel.... farm something in your land (Trammel) and sell/trade it for things you are clearly afraid to farm yourself... just like the pvpers do for other items or are you too lazy to farm Trammel's risk-free content too?

The best argument in this thread so far

 

[OREOGL]

how is this even up for discussion?

There is zero reason to introduce these into trammel. It gains nothing but saves the lazy people 10k insurance if they happened to get raided once every 5-10 spawns.

Even if PVPers did want to slaughter pvmers in feel, it's still not a justification to waste the time to introduce them into trammel.


Does everything need to have an easy button?

 

[Mervyn]

I tell you what, give us a fel only shard, and the Snowflakes can have all the 120s and all the participation trophys they want.

 

[leet]

Yet you wish to force people who don't wish to kill people to play your style to experience a large part of the game - skill up their characters.

Literally one aspect over thousands... Nobody cares when wrestling 120's were 150k, did we complain when we couldn't sell them for anything? And now you are complaining when you have to pay 12 mil for one...

 

[DJAd]

I've not read all the previous posts in this thread because I can't be arsed but this is my thinking...

If they added scrolls to Trammel there would just be posts up within hours off everyone complaining about not getting scrolls.

I can imagine it. There would be loads of people arriving up when the champ is up, tanking it to death and getting the scrolls. People with multiple characters etc. etc. The players who spent the time to do the actual spawn would be raging that others have come in and "stolen" the champ from them....In Trammel!

Sure people can already do this in Fel (and they do) but at least you have a chance to fight and defend for the spawn you have worked up. If the PvP aspect is not what you are into then do something else like Doom, Shadowguard etc. Get some nice loot / arties, sell them and then buy the scrolls you need.

Conclusion: Leave them at Fel champions.

 

[leet]

I've not read all the previous posts in this thread because I can't be arsed but this is my thinking...

If they added scrolls to Trammel there would just be posts up within hours off everyone complaining about not getting scrolls.

I can imagine it. There would be loads of people arriving up when the champ is up, tanking it to death and getting the scrolls. People with multiple characters etc. etc. The players who spent the time to do the actual spawn would be raging that others have come in and "stolen" the champ from them....In Trammel!

Sure people can already do this in Fel (and they do) but at least you have a chance to fight and defend for the spawn you have worked up. If the PvP aspect is not what you are into then do something else like Doom, Shadowguard etc. Get some nice loot / arties, sell them and then buy the scrolls you need.

Conclusion: Leave them at Fel champions.

Very good point. Perfect example when the big turtle came out, no one did the spawn, everyone did the turtle.

 

[Great DC]

If they came out with 125-130 powerscrolls in fel only and something else that was as good or better to get from fel only, Id give the trammels up to 120 scrolls in trammy land. Other then that happening its a huge NO.

 

[Lythos-]

It's always been easy to do spawns in fel even when the population was bigger.

With that said, it would amuse me to see 1 and only 1 super extra hard tram ruleset spawn open that gave scrolls.

 

[Mervyn]

let us not forget, before pub 97 came out, most 120 powerscrolls were put in the trash for cleanup points due to shard shields, people just farming them on dead shards. Sure make them available un trammel, then go back to farming them for cleanup points.

 

[Mervyn]

I've not read all the previous posts in this thread because I can't be arsed but this is my thinking...

If they added scrolls to Trammel there would just be posts up within hours off everyone complaining about not getting scrolls.

I can imagine it. There would be loads of people arriving up when the champ is up, tanking it to death and getting the scrolls. People with multiple characters etc. etc. The players who spent the time to do the actual spawn would be raging that others have come in and "stolen" the champ from them....In Trammel!

Sure people can already do this in Fel (and they do) but at least you have a chance to fight and defend for the spawn you have worked up. If the PvP aspect is not what you are into then do something else like Doom, Shadowguard etc. Get some nice loot / arties, sell them and then buy the scrolls you need.

Conclusion: Leave them at Fel champions.

People may laugh but there was an actual thread about this, someone complaining that in doom they kill the spawn and sampires kill the dark fathers....

 

[Turbo]

Its quite funny really. The mentality of the pvpers in this thread is exactly why pvp is fading and will die out.

 

[OREOGL]

Its quite funny really. The mentality of the pvpers in this thread is exactly why pvp is fading and will die out.

It's quite funny really, you strung absolutely no logical explanation for them and resorted to petty insults.

Pot meet kettle.

 

[Slayvite]

You're all missing the big picture anyway.
Pet Powerscrolls will soon be available from the UO Store so your arguments are null and void.
Champ spots will soon be as deserted as they used to be as "players" don't need scrolls, only their pets.

Oh and before y'all go on about it not happening.....think about the dev's reading these recent Pvm v's PvP threads and them thinking "how the hell are we gonna solve the pet powerscroll problem".
You have all given them the ONLY answer that will work.

 

[Angel]

You're all missing the big picture anyway.
Pet Powerscrolls will soon be available from the UO Store so you're arguments are null and void.
Champ spots will soon be as deserted as they used to be as "players" don't need scrolls, only their pets.

Oh and before y'all go on about it not happening.....think about the dev's reading these recent Pvm v's PvP threads and them thinking "how the hell are we gonna solve the pet powerscroll problem".
You have all given them the ONLY answer that will work.

 

[It Lives]

Yea! Both Faucets!

who said sarcasm "much"... Those little white scrolls will be on every ones mind for a long time to come with the player base polarized as it is, something will break.

 

[Nexus]

who said sarcasm "much"... Those little white scrolls will be on every ones mind for a long time to come with the player base polarized as it is, something will break.

I was joking about the misspelling of facets as faucets.....

 

[Pawain]

I was joking about the misspelling of facets as faucets.....

Faucets can break.