V
Vex
Guest
AH! I am from Chicago, too! So now you HAVE to help me! ... ha!
pleeeeeeeeeease!
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Bring back old school thieves?
- Thread starter kennykilleduo
- Start date
- Watchers 2
pleeeeeeeeeease!
R
Rumpelstiltskin
Guest
want thiefs back in the game? allow things to be stolen in tram, if someone is afk at the bank sucks for them...
P
Prince Caspian
Guest
Well, yeah... that's what we did. I usually went to the Minoc bank. Miners and not many thieves.
I'll be the first to admit thieves have been sooo nerfed in this game that they are all but useless. Plus, with the insurance and blessed items, it hardly is worthwhile anymore.
Rico, buddy -- I know thief is your preferred class and I'm not trying to paint all thieves as griefers. I'm just saying that there was a time in this game when many thieves were overpowered griefing vehicles that preyed on other players. I'm not saying they shouldn't be given a boost, but I don't think they should be brought up to the DLD levels.
K
kennykilleduo
Guest
Yes 41 53.95%
Yes , but limited to PVP / Factions only 16 21.05%
No 19 25.00%
Voters: 76.
Better than 50%......
Yes , but limited to PVP / Factions only 16 21.05%
No 19 25.00%
Voters: 76.
Better than 50%......
N
NemesisDesignz
Guest
Nothing worse than a bunch of crybabies to ruin games... Thieves were awesome....and I never had a good one really... and I played in Fel 98% of the time back in the day.... you just had to know how to protect your gear and not get ganked...just like you had to always be on guard to get jumped by a red.... Having both felluca and trammel is what makes UO imho the best MMORPG... WoW sure doesn't have it.. you can either pvp on a server...or not.. no real risk factor..Now you can insure and bless EVERYTHING just about so no risk in losing anything besides easily made money...plus stuff that you dont insure in dungeons now all u gotta do is click your body once to get all of your **** back... rather than having to run up grab a sword and aids heal run around get the rest of your stuff...... Nothing is wrong with a little blood pumping and getting ya excited....... my issue now is that reds seem to be way too common now since they are allowed to go into cities and bank other than at bucs den or yew... seems like theres no real consequences for them anymore other than not being able to go to trammel...
Ok, yes thieves did managed to escape guards back in 98 or sometime. But guess what! You CANT escape guards now. So that whole argument is pointless.
I am an old school thief. I know what stealing was like before insurance and even before trammel. NO, thieves didn't get away 90% of the time, thats a horribly overestimated idea. When they brought in trammel there was a huge decrease in people playing in fel. People who didn't want the risk went to tram and didn't come to fel that often, or even at all.
Even when people were in fel, you still had the risk of getting guard wacked when stealing in guards. People seem to be forgetting the obvious fact that when stealing you still risk getting guard wacked! You don't succeed all the time! Generally if you don't want an item stolen you didn't walk around with it in your bag. Hence we dont see everyone with PS's in their bag everywhere. People are not that that stupid in this game.
As my guild's quote goes. Stealing is simply looting from the living. Same goes for fighting pk's If you dont want to lose a certain item, you dont carry it with you.
My opinion goes, either let thieves steal alot more items in fel,
Or keep the current rules (only being able to steal uninsured and nonblessed items) and let us steal in tram as well.
I am an old school thief. I know what stealing was like before insurance and even before trammel. NO, thieves didn't get away 90% of the time, thats a horribly overestimated idea. When they brought in trammel there was a huge decrease in people playing in fel. People who didn't want the risk went to tram and didn't come to fel that often, or even at all.
Even when people were in fel, you still had the risk of getting guard wacked when stealing in guards. People seem to be forgetting the obvious fact that when stealing you still risk getting guard wacked! You don't succeed all the time! Generally if you don't want an item stolen you didn't walk around with it in your bag. Hence we dont see everyone with PS's in their bag everywhere. People are not that that stupid in this game.
As my guild's quote goes. Stealing is simply looting from the living. Same goes for fighting pk's If you dont want to lose a certain item, you dont carry it with you.
My opinion goes, either let thieves steal alot more items in fel,
Or keep the current rules (only being able to steal uninsured and nonblessed items) and let us steal in tram as well.
G
galefan2004
Guest
Sorry but you are artifact hunters now. The problem with this is the only way it could actually be done is to either allow insured/blessed items to be stolen or to remove insured and blessed items in Felucca.
The last I checked you can still steal from other players, it is simply that anything worth stealing has already been insured. You never could steal suit items unless you disarmed someone, and those items shouldn't be stealable either.
When this item became item based to the extreme stupid ways to lose items went away. We don't need yet another reason to keep people out of Felucca. Old theifs that complain there is nothing of value obviously haven't gotten very creative because last I checked if you were good you could steal power scrolls and stat scrolls with virtually no pentalty.
The last I checked you can still steal from other players, it is simply that anything worth stealing has already been insured. You never could steal suit items unless you disarmed someone, and those items shouldn't be stealable either.
When this item became item based to the extreme stupid ways to lose items went away. We don't need yet another reason to keep people out of Felucca. Old theifs that complain there is nothing of value obviously haven't gotten very creative because last I checked if you were good you could steal power scrolls and stat scrolls with virtually no pentalty.
G
galefan2004
Guest
You couldn't get your item back anyways. You could kill the theif but your item had some sort of protection which made it so you couldn't get it back if it was stolen even if you killed the theif. That was just a messed up system. Of course theives loved it...everyone loves getting something for nothing, but those that were stollen from were not exactly huge fans so the system ended.
G
galefan2004
Guest
You mean like if they were playing a game? Wow. Imagine that. They want calculated risks and rules that are present in every other game. If I want risk (I mean real risk not the risk of losing pixels), I get enough of it in life. I want to escape my life for a bit when I PLAY a game, so yeah I don't want to think about losing what I played to aquire.
I think that society has already decided that what the masses want is what sets what something should be instead of one individual getting their own way.
When the risk was losing a 100k sword (at the most extreme) then yeah it was almost fun. Now the risk is losing a 40 mil weapon if disarmed, and that having that happen could DESTROY your game play. If they were to make theives able to steal weapons again (which is all they ever were able to steal without killing the person) then they better make those items drop form the 40 mil value to the 100k value again first.
G
galefan2004
Guest
Wait a minute...aren't you the ones always claiming that its not about getting what you want? Why do you think that what you want is more important then what those that don't want to deal with thieves want?
The bulk of your profession was destroyed by items becoming 100x more valuable. Insurance was a side effect. No one is willing to lose a 40 mil item, but many didn't mind that much when losing a 100k item.
Who wouldn't? I mean, seriously, if I could make 40 mil by just disarming and stealing and running away I'd make a theif too.
G
galefan2004
Guest
G
galefan2004
Guest
Not if you find ways to make it challenging. Try soloing peerless or raiding a champion spawn without friends. People complain how easy UO is, but the same people do nothing to try to make it challenging. Killing high end monsters (outside of peerless, dark fathers, champions, and lich lords) has simply never gotten harder or easier then it was in the first days of UO.
No because killing and looting takes actual effort. Getting in a fight with someone disarming them and stealing their weapon doesn't take effort.
Do you honestly think anyone would still be playing this game if everytime you left the house you could lose a 100 mil suit (and that is not an exageration for a decent pvp suit). If someone lost years of work everytime they died they simply wouldn't play this game any longer. The reason people didn't mind losing items in the days before AoS was that you could replace those items in about 2 hours with a gold farmer. The average suit was between 250k - 500k and you could still easily make 100k an hour back in the day just in gold.
G
galefan2004
Guest
Nope we are all playing with our new dragons and mares. I think its the rest of the community whining about tamers you are thinking of.
G
galefan2004
Guest
To be a disarm theif you had to work 3 skills to 100 with power hour. That was SO much work. I can't imagine anyone having to do all that to steal 100k items back to back while naked.
D
Dor of Sonoma
Guest
Yes.
Please.
!!
Please.
!!
Frankly, unless they make almost all drops from high end spawn to be outrageously good I don't think it will happen. This is in fact sad as I am a long time thief player and one of the last thieves on normal production shards. *Thieves Unite!*
I do however like the thought that thieves could steal for the insurance(with all the normal checks and balances) and have the item return to the persons bank box while the insurance gold goes to the thiefs bag.
I do believe however that containers should be open to theft and if you put insured items in a secondary bag that's your loss if the bag isn't too heavy to be stolen (a meager 20 stones of weight stops the thief completely).
Thieves should be able to steal bags of sending as well.
Insurance should receive a maximum number of items which can be insured on a player. It's outrageous that anyone should be able to insure 10 different weapons.
Beatles should be snoopable, as should some bugged secondary bags in pack animals. Petballs should also not be allowed to be insured and arrows should be at risk if a thief tries to randomly steal from a players quiver(GM stealing+ only though).
The thrill of the chase could again live on and the item based game would largely go unaffected without crushing us to death for no reason.
I do however like the thought that thieves could steal for the insurance(with all the normal checks and balances) and have the item return to the persons bank box while the insurance gold goes to the thiefs bag.
I do believe however that containers should be open to theft and if you put insured items in a secondary bag that's your loss if the bag isn't too heavy to be stolen (a meager 20 stones of weight stops the thief completely).
Thieves should be able to steal bags of sending as well.
Insurance should receive a maximum number of items which can be insured on a player. It's outrageous that anyone should be able to insure 10 different weapons.
Beatles should be snoopable, as should some bugged secondary bags in pack animals. Petballs should also not be allowed to be insured and arrows should be at risk if a thief tries to randomly steal from a players quiver(GM stealing+ only though).
The thrill of the chase could again live on and the item based game would largely go unaffected without crushing us to death for no reason.
K
kennykilleduo
Guest
And for the last 6 years apparently.
It shouldn't be this way with the amount of items in UO , there should be no reason thief class is all but being wasted..
S
Salty Pete
Guest
AoS is and always has been total and complete garbage.
And thus why we are on Siege...la
The problem with you killing a monster that I'm killing is that it's only fun for you, unless you happen to not like sharing loot (I don't.)
Can we make it so you can't play/enjoy this game too?
That is not true. For starters, the item properties/new skills available to characters today make it a lot easier. Sampires would be the first thing that comes to mind... and really, they are the only plausable char that solos top bosses.
No push through makes it easier.
No pks in 7/9ths of UO's landmass makes it easier.
Item Insurance makes it easier.
Trammel is all about making it easier for people, from divying up the loot so the people who can't double click a corpse, or even defend their own kills from other players get their "fair share." Hell, you even have to have instanced dungeons because people can't stand sharing the game with eachother unless its on their own individual terms... which actually leaves out more individuals than it self-serves.
So sorry, but newp.
And if players could craft usable suits and if monster loot (not just the top tier of monsters) dropped usable loot... then we could dump item insurance and get back to players interacting.
Right now, its grind grind grind till you get what you need then... BORED
Trammel was created so that people could play the game without having to deal with whiney, crap talking ******bags you will meet everywhere in Fel. Nothing's changed there. Except for the population.
Still can't figure out why Tramm was truely created and has been the most popular facet since day one eh Rain?
Was eight (8) years ago. Get over it already.
Still can't figure out why Tramm was truely created and has been the most popular facet since day one eh Rain?
Was eight (8) years ago. Get over it already.
NERF THEIFS!ONE!!!1one11!!
Oh wait
*wonders how long it'll take to sink in that it was misspelt on perpus*
Oh yes lets reinstall the Bad Old Days of the Naked Bank thief that steals, get guard whacked and is just Twitchy enough to have it put in the bank before you or someone can yell Guard.
Oh yeah great reward / risk that was.
There may be some (well hopefully) that can *Gasp* actually Role Play a Rogue / Thief / Scoundrel.
IT ISN'T going to be the majority. This means they are in it to GRIEF others, pure and simple.
In this context, as has been pointed out, The only one being entertained is the Greifer .... ops Thief.
Oh yeah great reward / risk that was.
There may be some (well hopefully) that can *Gasp* actually Role Play a Rogue / Thief / Scoundrel.
IT ISN'T going to be the majority. This means they are in it to GRIEF others, pure and simple.
In this context, as has been pointed out, The only one being entertained is the Greifer .... ops Thief.
Yes.
Well... no.
Just go to Siege.
Well... no.
Just go to Siege.
D
Deadly Shadow
Guest
M
Masuo Kenji
Guest
Currently it's the only place where playing a thief is worth it.Yes.
Well... no.
Just go to Siege.
A thief in PvP currently is very annoying if they are allied to your enemy.
Steal pots, enchanted apples, bolas, bandies, grapes of wrath, orange petals, petals of Trinsic Rose... Very disrupting...
Apart from having more stealables and having vital role in Factions I can't see what else they could be useful for. But hey, bring them back if you can. Can't hurt.
Steal pots, enchanted apples, bolas, bandies, grapes of wrath, orange petals, petals of Trinsic Rose... Very disrupting...
Apart from having more stealables and having vital role in Factions I can't see what else they could be useful for. But hey, bring them back if you can. Can't hurt.
Thieves are alive and well on Seige. It's the only shard where this game is exciting to play for me. The closest thing to the old days of UO. You are held accountable for your actions, crafters are needed, community play is tight and thieves have a blast!
S
Static
Guest
Thieves are well and alive on atlantic also.
I voted yes, But i acctully enjoy insurance. Its a catch 22. I insure all my gear (You think im Stupid?) Insurance makes me (as a thief) i enjoy every theft. From basic gear to uninsured wonders. Insurance is good and bad at the same time. I have to "try" each time i go out to locate somthing in someones backpack thats worth value, Some Insured some not.
Thieves are still alive, but stealing an orny each day is not a reality, and i belive most thives accept that and go with the flow.
My .2$
O By the Way, I got a hair dye last night- 8mill sold.... So Im not doing so bad...
I voted yes, But i acctully enjoy insurance. Its a catch 22. I insure all my gear (You think im Stupid?) Insurance makes me (as a thief) i enjoy every theft. From basic gear to uninsured wonders. Insurance is good and bad at the same time. I have to "try" each time i go out to locate somthing in someones backpack thats worth value, Some Insured some not.
Thieves are still alive, but stealing an orny each day is not a reality, and i belive most thives accept that and go with the flow.
My .2$
O By the Way, I got a hair dye last night- 8mill sold.... So Im not doing so bad...
An argument that is (well was) often made is the player must protect themselves, just like real life.
Then of course that argument is degenerates to nonsense fast when the rebuttal comes up "Yeah, well you don't stay dead, you don't stay in jail, you don't stay hurt etc, like in real life".
Or in short is using the Real Life Scenario ... Selectively.
The problem for Thieves and PKR's in this context is the same. There is NO means for the Server Community to Jail the individual or Collectively protect themselves. So they just take a hit and keep on being anti social, knowing darn well that the players they are victimizing can NOT protect themselves any were near like they can in Real Life.
Then of course that argument is degenerates to nonsense fast when the rebuttal comes up "Yeah, well you don't stay dead, you don't stay in jail, you don't stay hurt etc, like in real life".
Or in short is using the Real Life Scenario ... Selectively.
The problem for Thieves and PKR's in this context is the same. There is NO means for the Server Community to Jail the individual or Collectively protect themselves. So they just take a hit and keep on being anti social, knowing darn well that the players they are victimizing can NOT protect themselves any were near like they can in Real Life.
There is a way a player can protect themselves from thieves and PKs... it's called staying in Tram. Fel is the "prison" where you can find murderers and thieves. Though you can protect yourselves against both even in Fel - you take care where you go, how you behave. If you're totally paranoid, you can become a stealther and wear death robes 24/7.
There are many ways to protect against thieves and murderers, but you have to pass through the school of hard knocks in Fel to learn them all. The most obvious thing being - don't carry stuff if you don't want someone stealing it.
If we were all forced to live in Fel, then yeah, it's harder on new players and those who don't like PvP/thieves. But as Fel is a choice for players, I don't think it's at all unreasonable to allow thieves to make a proper dishonest living in Fel.
Wenchy
S
Static
Guest
This is truley my feeling......
You stay in tram you get the benifit of having insured items
FEL- The insurance is automaticly turned off upon entrance to fel. blessed items will still be blessed but insurance will be nol in void.
Return to tram insurance is automaticly turned back on.
Enjoy!
You stay in tram you get the benifit of having insured items
FEL- The insurance is automaticly turned off upon entrance to fel. blessed items will still be blessed but insurance will be nol in void.
Return to tram insurance is automaticly turned back on.
Enjoy!
Yes, and here is some food for thought, without insurance, theives still would not get as good of items... Why?
People wouldn't bring all their gear super uber gear to Felucca, they would be too afraid to lose it.. PvP also might be a little more balanced when the game is less little gear based..
I would suggest removing insurance in Felucca and keeping it in Trammel....
People wouldn't bring all their gear super uber gear to Felucca, they would be too afraid to lose it.. PvP also might be a little more balanced when the game is less little gear based..
I would suggest removing insurance in Felucca and keeping it in Trammel....
L
love2winalot
Guest
Thieves are the greatest scripter/unattendeded macro police in the game. Let us steal in Tram and a lot of that comes to a skreeching halt. No need to cry to the GMs about it. See it, log in your thief, steal everything they are macroing, hehehe.
ps: ummmm, not that i ever used to do that.........i......ummmmmm.....saw someone else do it.....yea.....that the story.
ps: ummmm, not that i ever used to do that.........i......ummmmmm.....saw someone else do it.....yea.....that the story.
*Shrug*
I don't disagree with anything you said.
My point was the argument of "Well, you need to protect yourself you wuss as you clearly dont in Real Life.", "Well, you need to protect yourself just like you do in Real Life".
They are mixing the scenarios to suit their ends.
But Wenchy, Static, andy anyone that wants to answer the question, lets do this.
Fel is all about Risk vs Reward. Are we in agreement here?
If an item takes (by design) one month of 4 hour days to acquire and a Thief FAILS to steal it and gets caught, what is the
A) Current Penalty
B) The appropriate penalty vs the effort made by the rightful owner?
It should be: Perma-grey to that player & all detectives that are hired by that player. A perma-grey that doesn't lift until that player gets their item back.
If you're a successful thief, you're going to end up being grey to half the shard. (The way it should be.)
Details on "detectives" can be debated later.
If not "forever" then a very long time. Maybe wear off eventually.
ROFL. You play on a production shard, you are doing very bad. Aren't those dyes a 1 stone item...wow...skillz...la
When stealing was introduced, the items we had to steal were not like today's items. There were goodies, but not like we have now. But that just means that any solution on offer has to consider that. Right now the non-thieves can insure anything worth having (aside from cursed items) and it's weighted too far in their favor IMHO.
I'm not asking that everything falls into the thieves lap, just that the skill gets looked at, and updated so it's both fun for the thief and not too disheartening for the mark. After all, a mark is the thief's bread and butter, if they're all too scared to visit Fel, we have nobody to rob. There needs to be a better balance so players on both sides are cool with it.
I'm more than happy to flag perma grey as a thief, have challenges before me and have to work to get something from a mark's bag. The chase is half the fun - that's why tram stealing is dull
If I get caught, I don't mind consequences. In other words, I'm happy to try any solutions that are on offer if it means my thief can have more fun again. It can't all go in the thieves favour, but the current system is very restricted, pretty dull pickings (PS and resources don't interest me) and lacks fun. Wenchy
T
The Home Guild
Guest
"...la"!!!!!!!
Spending 5 minutes to remove something from another player when they spent hours obtaining it should never be possible without the consent of the losing player. It makes the game frustrating, not fun.
If high-end gear becomes unnecessary or easy to obtain quickly and repeatedly... then talks about thieves, insurance, blessings, PoF, repairing, decay, etc can continue... but until then any changes that make it harder for people to retain their items would make UO more frustrating than fun.
If high-end gear becomes unnecessary or easy to obtain quickly and repeatedly... then talks about thieves, insurance, blessings, PoF, repairing, decay, etc can continue... but until then any changes that make it harder for people to retain their items would make UO more frustrating than fun.
Or maybe, just maybe...you could spend 5 minutes learning the mechinics of the game and thief proof your belongings. It's funny when I run around on my non-thief accounts, I have never been stolen from. Why? Because I know how to keep thieves from taking my pixels. Sheesh...la
So .... are you advocating that thieves should NOT have an appropriate punishment (AKA Risk) when caught?
That if I catch the thief all that can be done is to kill the thief and that is what all of a few minutes to back on the UO Streets business as usual. What a great Risk the Thief takes, dont ya think? You would seemingly be saying the onus is 100% on the (to coin Wenchy) The Mark. BUT be silent on the inappropriate Risk the Thief is taking for value of the item. (Don't ya know
)
When I am caught, I usually lose quit a bit. It's funny to watch the vultures swoop in to loot my corpse, even when the guards whack me. The risk is...if we fail, we don't get the loot. What's could be worse than that?...laWhat a great Risk the Thief takes, dont ya think?
ROFL..."All Kill"...la