Adding Power Scrolls to Tram

[TheDrAJ]

I really think it is time to consider making Fel and Tram identical in terms of options available for all players. I think the developers went overboard years ago by trying to force players to go to Fel for champ spawns etc. They gave large luck bonuses and double resources to try to get players to venture forth into Fel.

I think this needs to end fully or in part.

 

[skittles1337]

Mesanna already responded to a question similar to yours last year or so, with a firm no.

 

[CovenantX]

Absolutely not.

The whole reason fel is a barren wasteland is because 95% of everything In fel is also Obtainable in Trammel-ruleset areas.
Now that powerscrolls have a new use, there has been a surge of players (Pvpers and Pvmers) to spawns, Now you want to take it away...

Just to clarify, I'm not against Powerscrolls coming from Tram/fel whatever, I'm against Fel having Nothing special that is exclusive.

Double resources matters not.
Luck Bonus is debatable, especially when the mobs that have the highest quality loot drops are only in Trammel rule areas....

 

[TheDrAJ]

@Mesanna

I think the game has changed and now other options need to be looked at again. I believe the entire structure of the game might change in the fall so I believe all options are back on the table.

 

[Pawain]

Absolutely not.

The whole reason fel is a barren wasteland is because 95% of everything In fel is also Obtainable in Trammel-ruleset areas.
Now that powerscrolls have a new use, there has been a surge of players (Pvpers and Pvmers) to spawns, Now you want to take it away...

Just to clarify, I'm not against Powerscrolls coming from Tram/fel whatever, I'm against Fel having Nothing special that is exclusive.

Double resources matters not.
Luck Bonus is debatable, especially when the mobs that have the highest quality loot drops are only in Trammel rule areas....

What about the abundant PvP community. They can have Fel and the 98% of players can have powerscrolls.

 

[BeaIank]

I think it could work as long it was only 105 and 110 scrolls. That way you would need 120 110 scrolls to make a single 120 scroll and have justice not work on those spawns.
I would still do my spawns in Fel for the better reward.

 

[cdavbar]

The only PS I would suggest ever being available in Tram is 105's, since they are not cursed anyways and can be sent with bag of sending.

I would however love to see PS having a rare chance at spawning in Fel level 7 treasure chests.

 

[Sauteed Onion]

I wouldn't even mind if they took power scrolls out of the game entirely and let you just go to720 in one skill if you so chose just because.

And in the place of the powerscrolls, you get an email that says you won.

 

[Yadd of Legends]

105's, since they are not cursed anyways and can be sent with bag of sending.

Really? I never noticed that before

 

[Yadd of Legends]

I wouldn't even mind if they took power scrolls out of the game entirely.

Actually, I've often felt the same way. Nothing is more irritating to me than building a character from scratch on a new shard and not being able to find a power scroll to keep going. But realistically, I know it's never going to happen because of the market for power scrolls

 

[Dot_Warner]

Wait, let me get this straight, someone suggests (for the umpteenth time) that 120 scrolls drop in Tram, and people say "hells no" because they force PvMers to Fel.

What do the PvPers want? A good fight with someone who wants it, or to roll PvM-oriented spawners late in game (as in when the champ is up) kill the fodder and take their scrolls...to turn around and sell them back for big $$?

Seriously, pick one:

• Skilled people to fight who ACTUALLY WANT TO FIGHT, or
• Sheep, ready for the slaughter you big, strong, PvPer, you.

You really can't have it both ways an expect the game to keep merrily chugging along. I refer you to the multitudinous threads complaining about PvP as Exhibit A.

At some point @Mesanna needs to realize she's supporting a playstyle that nearly killed UO by handing them the market on scrolls. Trammel was created for a reason. UO wouldn't have survived without it.

 

[Merus]

Wait, let me get this straight, someone suggests (for the umpteenth time) that 120 scrolls drop in Tram, and people say "hells no" because they force PvMers to Fel.

What do the PvPers want? A good fight with someone who wants it, or to roll PvM-oriented spawners late in game (as in when the champ is up) kill the fodder and take their scrolls...to turn around and sell them back for big $$?

Seriously, pick one:

• Skilled people to fight who ACTUALLY WANT TO FIGHT, or
• Sheep, ready for the slaughter you big, strong, PvPer, you.

You really can't have it both ways an expect the game to keep merrily chugging along. I refer you to the multitudinous threads complaining about PvP as Exhibit A.

At some point @Mesanna needs to realize she's supporting a playstyle that nearly killed UO by handing them the market on scrolls. Trammel was created for a reason. UO wouldn't have survived without it.

Why are tram players so afraid to buy powerscrolls? Are there not enough tram only artifacts or EM events for them to get something to trade or sell ? Realistically there just aren't enough pvpers to be everywhere and do everything.

Go farm Doom and get a halo then trade it to some pvper for the 5 or 6 120 scrolls you need.

Fel deserves some exclusive content.

 

[MalagAste]

Wait, let me get this straight, someone suggests (for the umpteenth time) that 120 scrolls drop in Tram, and people say "hells no" because they force PvMers to Fel.

What do the PvPers want? A good fight with someone who wants it, or to roll PvM-oriented spawners late in game (as in when the champ is up) kill the fodder and take their scrolls...to turn around and sell them back for big $$?

Seriously, pick one:

• Skilled people to fight who ACTUALLY WANT TO FIGHT, or
• Sheep, ready for the slaughter you big, strong, PvPer, you.

You really can't have it both ways an expect the game to keep merrily chugging along. I refer you to the multitudinous threads complaining about PvP as Exhibit A.

At some point @Mesanna needs to realize she's supporting a playstyle that nearly killed UO by handing them the market on scrolls. Trammel was created for a reason. UO wouldn't have survived without it.

Thank you for saying what I've been trying to say for days... but they don't get it...

Without scrolls people won't go to Fel... ??? Really??? Guess that should tell you something???

 

[MalagAste]

Why are tram players so afraid to buy powerscrolls? Are there not enough tram only artifacts or EM events for them to get something to trade or sell ? Realistically there just aren't enough pvpers to be everywhere and do everything.

Go farm Doom and get a halo then trade it to some pvper for the 5 or 6 120 scrolls you need.

Fel deserves some exclusive content.

I don't give a rats to pay for something I ought to be able to get for FREE by doing the content... but some wise cracker at BS thinks it's cute to make me go try to compete with a bunch of cheatting, speed hackers... who use all sorts of Illegal 3rd party programs just to play a 20 year old game because they think that makes them "winners".... and this is why they wait till you have the boss up and are 2/3rds dead to come out of hidding and slam you with 1 hit kills... because that's awesome PvP...

CAn't FARM DOOM they RUINED IT!... Why should I give the anti-social (*$(&$(*&$ ANY of my gold?????

 

[Martell]

@Mesanna

I think the game has changed and now other options need to be looked at again. I believe the entire structure of the game might change in the fall so I believe all options are back on the table.

Please do elaborate. What part of the game has changed that you think this should be done?

 

[Dot_Warner]

Why are tram players so afraid to buy powerscrolls?

Try not starting your post with hyperbolic nonsense. People might take you seriously then.

 

[Fridgster]

Please do elaborate. What part of the game has changed that you think this should be done?

Actually quite a bit. As a mater of fact one could argue that Richard Garriott s social experiment of good overcoming evil is no longer valid due to the current population (or lack thereof). Without enough people to fight off "evil" the concept is no longer valid. One could also argue that because of this perhaps it is time for a reexamination of fel and more importantly forced pvp.

 

[Martell]

Actually quite a bit. As a mater of fact one could argue that Richard Garriott s social experiment of good overcoming evil is no longer valid due to the current population (or lack thereof). Without enough people to fight off "evil" the concept is no longer valid. One could also argue that because of this perhaps it is time for a reexamination of fel and more importantly forced pvp.

Personally, I think proposing a philosophical/moral argument for changing in-game content is kind of weak.

However, one could also argue the remnants of Richard Garriot's original "social experiment" of truly open world gaming are the only thing that is keeping the game alive and the areas you most see that in are the open world pvp and also the custom housing (which I personally don't care about or partake in but i get that a lot of people do, and so I don't post in all of the threads about custom housing and the dev resources going to that because it doesn't effect my gameplay).

Edit: Forgot to mention RP as another major aspect of the game that benefits from Richard Garriot's original idea

 

[Fridgster]

Personally, I think proposing a philosophical/moral argument for changing in-game content is kind of weak.

However, one could also argue the remnants of Richard Garriot's original "social experiment" of truly open world gaming are the only thing that is keeping the game alive and the areas you most see that in are the open world pvp and also the custom housing (which I personally don't care about or partake in but i get that a lot of people do, and so I don't post in all of the threads about custom housing and the dev resources going to that because it doesn't effect my gameplay).

How is it weak when the whole concept behind the creation and design of the game is based on it?

 

[Tyrath]

I'm against Fel having Nothing special that is exclusive.

Endless non consent PvP among ALL of the other PvPs. The epic fight against a equally skilled enemy that is what its all about according to what I have been reading of late.

 

[CovenantX]

Endless non consent PvP among ALL of the other PvPs. The epic fight against a equally skilled enemy that is what its all about according to what I have been reading of late.

Hey, isn't that what Yew gate is?

 

[Merlin]

Leave power scrolls as is.

 

[Great DC]

If 98% of the player base is trammel based people, why cant you guys get together and defend off the 2% pvpers. I keep hearing this percentage across so many of these fel/tram based arguments. I find this thread hilarious and sad that people cant get their own scrolls.

 

[Tyrath]

Why are tram players so afraid to buy powerscrolls? Are there not enough tram only artifacts or EM events for them to get something to trade or sell ? Realistically there just aren't enough pvpers to be everywhere and do everything.

Go farm Doom and get a halo then trade it to some pvper for the 5 or 6 120 scrolls you need.

Fel deserves some exclusive content.

The problem with your argument is nothing restricts you or anyone else from eating a pardon and doing the exact same content unmolested. The same can't be said for power scrolls.

 

[cholupa]

I would like to know where this 98% of the population is trammel based statistic came from. Seems rather exaggerated.

 

[Martell]

How is it weak when the whole concept behind the creation and design of the game is based on it?

Because you're applying highly subjective definitions to your argument against the the "concept" behind the entire game. Proposing such a massive change is pointless at this point 15+ years down the road; you might as well just ask them to make a new game.

Further, I think your implications of why the population of the game has dwindled ("evil," which I assume you mean fel and the pvp community) is really misinformed and flat wrong. I think the things that have really hurt this game are simply the age (ie. graphics, bugs, and overall performance) of the game, its moves increasingly towards item-based gaming, an inability to attract new players (due to the age of the game and the out of whack economy) and not enough good new content. Again, I think the more they wash out Richard Garriot's vision, the worse the game gets and the more people leave.

 

[Tyrath]

I would like to know where this 98% of the population is trammel based statistic came from. Seems rather exaggerated.

No doubt it is probably more like 99.98%

 

[Fridgster]

If 98% of the player base is trammel based people, why cant you guys get together and defend off the 2% pvpers. I keep hearing this percentage across so many of these fel/tram based arguments. I find this thread hilarious and sad that people cant get their own scrolls.

Simply not true. As of late I've been stock piling scrolls. Doesn't make the argument any less valid. Forced pvp does nothing to add to the game. Pvpers want a challenge (but not too much of a challenge as apparent by the screaming about the new tamer publish) and non pvpers are put off by the fact that something that is vital to the game is only available via pvp.

 

[Great DC]

The problem with your argument is nothing restricts you or anyone else from eating a pardon and doing the exact same content unmolested. The same can't be said for power scrolls.

LOLOLOL. What restricts you from going to fel to do spawns? Its not like there are Pvpers standing at dungeon entrances checking your Visa status and permit to go in. Just WOW

 

[Turbo]

I do agree there needs to be a change to champ spawns. They are a pvm event. Killing monsters ingame is a pvm event.

A lot of players only have limited time to play each day due to life commitments and when they turn up on their pvm built chars and spend their time doing the spawn and getting to the champ just to have some pvp geared and specced asshat running cheat scripts in the classic client come in when the champ is 3/4 dead and take all the loot it makes it a total waste of time. Doesnt encourage anyone to go and do them and pvp.

I would like to see things changed along these lines to draw more people to them. Firstly, it takes x number of things killed to gain a candle so each thing killed should have a points value. When you gain x amount of points you get a random 110-120 ps dropped in your bank box. Similar to how 105s are now but not a random chance. This would allow the pvm players to do spawns and not leave empty handed if they put in some effort which would encourage more to do it. Have the champ only drop 2 or so scrolls so people turning up right at the end cant take all the reward for nothing, this would encourage the pvpers to turn up earlier and thus more pvp.

Secondly, remove protection from justice and give a lower % chance at max and make it only work for the character that has it. That is so when getting raided it encourages you to fight to gain justice as it gives yourself a chance to get an extra scroll when awarded one. Might need to review the number of ps awarded during the spawn for this new system l.

Also there should be invul healers around the outside of each spawn, nothing kills the pvp like a 20min walk at ghost speed to get a res if nobody else is available.

They should remove the classic client as it is the cheating hub of this game. I know this old ec vs cc thing again. The only reason i have ever heard a cc player say they dont like the ec is the graphics. If they can change the phoenix skin then they should be able to convert the cc graphics to work on the ec and have an option to choose which gfx set you want. This would free up the time and money wasted maintaining the cc to be spent on other development areas such as anti cheat for the 1 client left.

Lastly make murder mean something again. When going red insurance should be disabled No bank should support criminals therefore you want that life you have risks involved either risk your uber suit or swap out to throwaway imbuables, if you are as good as you think you are you should still be competetive against pvmers at champ spawns. Also put 24hr cd on pardons and 7day cd on royal pardons so you cant be a blue murderer.

 

[Martell]

Simply not true. As of late I've been stock piling scrolls. Doesn't make the argument any less valid. Forced pvp does nothing to add to the game. Pvpers want a challenge (but not too much of a challenge as apparent by the screaming about the new tamer publish) and non pvpers are put off by the fact that something that is vital to the game is only available via pvp.

It's not forced PvP, you can avoid it. I don't call it forced PvM, I just avoid doing it. Most everything that I need to pvp is based in tram and I'm put off by the fact that I need to whack away at some mindless mob with 50k hitpoints a million times. Again, I don't come on stratics and complain about all the resources going to pvm, I just put in my time pvping, gathering insurance gold, selling scrolls and buying stuff from pvmers.

Again, the aspect of open world pvp is something that is truly unique to UO and one of the few things this game has going for it. It's what keep a lot of people playing the game.

On the pets, I'm not going to start as you clearly don't know what you're talking about. No one is arguing to remove pets or animal taming from pvp, tweaking new content isn't unheard of.

 

[Tyrath]

LOLOLOL. What restricts you from going to fel to do spawns? Its not like there are Pvpers standing at dungeon entrances checking your Visa status and permit to go in. Just WOW

ummm yeah sure

 

[Fridgster]

It's not forced PvP, you can avoid it. I don't call it forced PvM, I just avoid doing it. Most everything that I need to pvp is based in tram and I'm put off by the fact that I need to whack away at some mindless mob with 50k hitpoints a million times. Again, I don't come on stratics and complain about all the resources going to pvm, I just put in my time pvping, gathering insurance gold, selling scrolls and buying stuff from pvmers.

Again, the aspect of open world pvp is something that is truly unique to UO and one of the few things this game has going for it. It's what keep a lot of people playing the game.

On the pets, I'm not going to start as you clearly don't know what you're talking about. No one is arguing to remove pets or animal taming from pvp, tweaking new content isn't unheard of.

Just because something is unique doesn't make it right. Power scrolls are vital to pvm. Therfore yes you are being forced to pvp.
As far as taming goes everything being requested by pvpers is a lot more than tweaking.

 

[Lythos-]

And yet nobody has caught on to the fact the OP plays Siege... Pathetic really.

Fel players deserve something exclusive. Actually it deserves more than we have now.

 

[Fridgster]

And yet nobody has caught on to the fact the OP plays Siege... Pathetic really.

Fel players deserve something exclusive. Actually it deserves more than we have now.

Why?

 

[Lythos-]

Why?

Why not?

 

[Fridgster]

Why not?

Because.

 

[CovenantX]

How about we flip the rules around here...

Lets change all Trammel-ruleset facets (Trammel, Ilshenar, Ter Mur/Eodon, Tokuno, & Malas and all dungeons/peerless/encounters in them) to Felucca rules.
and change Felucca into the only non-pvp facet.

How long would that last?

I mean it would drastically reduce the amount of content some of you "Trammies" would bother going to.
You know, because the "evil pvpers" could stop you from enjoying it...

Lets see what you would get though.

Keep in mind, Felucca is essentially a mirror of Trammel & T2A.

You'll have all the powerscrolls
Abyssal Infernal & Primeval Lich spawns.
You'll have Khaldun Dungeon.
You'll still have a "safe version" Lady Mel, Paroxysmsus, and Shimmering effusion & Corgul.
is anyone afraid to to T-maps in fel rules? If so, you'd lose 5/6 facets worth of T-map locations... (lol)


The biggest thing you would lose out on though would be 99% of all EM Events, as they mostly take place in "Non-Felucca" facets

it would reduce or even completely eliminate mutli-boxers from EM events, as Pvpers won't allow mutli-boxers to stay alive at EM Events in a pvp setting... that could actually be beneficial it would also greatly attract pvpers to pvp with a very worthwhile reward. (I like it!)

Sounds like a grand Idea to me, Thoughts?

 

[afk]

Interesting thread, extremely old arguments, and while i tend to prefer pvm as i find pvp boring, I have always thought the biggest problem was with the skill system. It does not really lend itself to both pvm and pvp styles, and never really has. when UO first started it was supposed to be a friendly fire environment not really full on pvp, and the skill system just doesn't work well for both. I have always thought that if they wanted to bring the whole pvp and pvm thing together, that they needed to redo the skill system( which in my opinion has always been the main problem).

 

[Martell]

Just because something is unique doesn't make it right. Power scrolls are vital to pvm. Therfore yes you are being forced to pvp.
As far as taming goes everything being requested by pvpers is a lot more than tweaking.

An orny, slither, and crimson cinture are vital to pvp....I'm not being forced to pvm.

As far as taming goes, we're mostly asking to tone down the damage done/taken vs. players and to limit the spell casting range and speed to match players when in pvp. Seems like there's some debate on dismount and teleporting. Don't see how any of that concerns you if you don't pvp.

 

[leet]

I find the argument funny that i keep hearing how "no one cares about pvpers" and the "2%" and blah blah.

Do you not realize without the pvpers to buy all of the things farmed in basically not felluca you would be doing all that pvming for no reason?
No one is out there killing mobs to not obtain some sort of loot item to sell for gold to make. If someone comes heres and tells me they have fun doing 100 naverys a day for the "enjoyment of the game" and getting nothing i will laugh.

Whos going to buy all the roof drops? Whos going to buy that epic 1/3 legendary ep jewel that you got!, How bout the new doom drops? Or that perfect 10 stam piece!!??
If you remove rares from the equation then i would say Uo's economy is probably more than 75% relied on by the pvp community. People build suits and need items for MULTIPLE pvp chrs.
But you only need to make a luck suit once and u can pvm forever!!

 

[Lord Gandalf]

Wait, we got a deal! Move the PS to tram and make tram accessible by reds!

This way nobody pushes you to go to fel @TheDrAJ, what do you think???

 

[leet]

Wait, let me get this straight, someone suggests (for the umpteenth time) that 120 scrolls drop in Tram, and people say "hells no" because they force PvMers to Fel.

What do the PvPers want? A good fight with someone who wants it, or to roll PvM-oriented spawners late in game (as in when the champ is up) kill the fodder and take their scrolls...to turn around and sell them back for big $$?

Seriously, pick one:

• Skilled people to fight who ACTUALLY WANT TO FIGHT, or
• Sheep, ready for the slaughter you big, strong, PvPer, you.

You really can't have it both ways an expect the game to keep merrily chugging along. I refer you to the multitudinous threads complaining about PvP as Exhibit A.

At some point @Mesanna needs to realize she's supporting a playstyle that nearly killed UO by handing them the market on scrolls. Trammel was created for a reason. UO wouldn't have survived without it.

So a pvper who pays there subscription every month can have fun player versus playering while also making some gold to buy all the items u farmed in tram with no contest.

Oh and please dont tell me pvming is hard. It is not.

 

[transcendent]

My champ spawn thief will become completely useless if power scrolls are added to Tram. He is rarely used already. I don't enjoy stealing deco items. Why make thieves even more useless than they already are?

 

[Polaris75]

I'm a firm Trammie (due to not using trap box/cure programs).... but I also agree that powerscrolls should be left to fel. 105's could drop in Tram... that wouldn't be bad as you could build up a nice collection and make the binding more feasible. But if you took the higher ones from being fel-only... everyone would lose that feeling of "dread" going to do a champion spawn in felucca. It's fun to have the suspense. I also have 4-5 new pets ready to be scrolled that I haven't even started on yet... so I do feel everyone. And I won't pay the high prices either.... but that feeling of dread and suspense of being attacked at a champ spawn is part of Ultima. It would be about like Mesanna taking the phoenix away for a rainbow colored turkey........

 

[Fridgster]

Wait, we got a deal! Move the PS to tram and make tram accessible by reds!

This way nobody pushes you to go to fel @TheDrAJ, what do you think???

Ah but a red can go to tram. Just eat a forged pardon.

 

[Lord Gandalf]

Ah but a red can go to tram. Just eat a forged pardon.

Then i cant kill trammies in tram! Stick to the deal, take it or leave it?

 

[Slayvite]

It certainly would give the PvP'ers argument for Pet nerfs in Fel more weight,
PvM tamers would hunt scroll in Tram then so any tamer in Fel is there for one reason only

 

[RhelHalcyon]

So a pvper who pays there subscription every month can have fun player versus playering while also making some gold to buy all the items u farmed in tram with no contest.

Oh and please dont tell me pvming is hard. It is not.

Say what? PvPers aren't bound to Fel. You can go to tram and farm anything there without issue or drawbacks to your play style...

 

[MalagAste]

I'm a firm Trammie (due to not using trap box/cure programs).... but I also agree that powerscrolls should be left to fel. 105's could drop in Tram... that wouldn't be bad as you could build up a nice collection and make the binding more feasible. But if you took the higher ones from being fel-only... everyone would lose that feeling of "dread" going to do a champion spawn in felucca. It's fun to have the suspense. I also have 4-5 new pets ready to be scrolled that I haven't even started on yet... so I do feel everyone. And I won't pay the high prices either.... but that feeling of dread and suspense of being attacked at a champ spawn is part of Ultima. It would be about like Mesanna taking the phoenix away for a rainbow colored turkey........

Maybe that "feel" is for you but it isn't for me.... I hate that feeling... and honestly I started post UO:R... so that feeling isn't something I like... don't care for it never have... don't like panic games... prefer not to play them... I'm just fine with "all kill" and relaxfull PvM... If I wanted all that panic crap I'd play something like FF or something where you have to calculate your every move to "finish" some boss and remember move her move there do this do that blah blah... not interested... But of course I'm also ADD so I can't farm anything for long... certainly can't sit afkish in blackthorns or some place farming drops there as I get bored super easy if I'm not moving around... directing my pet... but PvP is not my thing...

It was but I got sick of the cheating... didn't like the attitudes and don't care to be harassed or anything when I kill someone or listen to a bunch of braggart boasting if I die... not my idea of "fun"... Enjoyed RPPvP for a long time save some of the drama that often came with that... But I was only good at group PvP where my job was to dismount and disappear... it was an easy job and if you were totally patient... it was very rewarding... Or my job was to sneak in behind the enemy and open a gate for my pals... but that was long ago and those times seem long gone.