I am not saying there aren't other bonuses to alchemy. I just disagree that everyone should have the same damage for novas. I think you are in the minority with that thinking.
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What difference would it make if it were the same for everyone or not?
Is there any other way of seeing this, besides using Nova potions to justify investing 100.0 points into alchemy?
This is like me saying if i have a wep skill i should hit just as hard with my wep as someone with tactics. They both have damage, one gets an increase from the skill. Same exact thing going on here. I think it is pretty cut and dry.
except people without tactics don't hit as hard as people that do... (but thats all they get with tactics). you get more than novas with alchemy. and alchemy by no means even needs nova potions to be very useful.
Talking about positioning referring to weapons and casting spells is not the same as nova potions. Sure you can position yourself so when you dismount or when you hit with a para shot or cast a wall. That has nothing to do with novas being unavoidable when they are instant, there is no positioning involved it at all. Your either close enough to dbl click or your not. Topic of thread is supernova nerf not archery positioning. Only way to attempt to avoid a supernova is run from it period. And paith stop with the personal attacks, your just a backup healer for a gank of ranged people. Throwing pots is the only offense you have.
hah. I am done going back and forth on the issue with you. We clearly don't agree. Good luck in getting it changed!
Talking about how you die heavily outnumbering people is a personal attack?
It is a well known fact that you are very bad at this game and spend the majority of your time crying in gen chat.
In all CAPS!
They need nerfed due to how easy it is to stack it with all forms of burst.
the reasons are:
1) Nova is instant use with no delay on damage..
2) the amount of damage it does is too high, for it being instant.
The avoidable argument doesn't hold because if it's "avoided", it's 100% because the user Failed at using it, has nothing to do with the defender.
One of two needs to happen.
1) Add a delay
2) or cut the damage by at least 25%.
There's no reason something instant should do 20+ damage. you can't get that kind of bonus in a single burst with any other skill that takes 100.0 points. This is why, alchemy will be added to most/all templates that don't already have it. (it already is....) the ones that don't have it, are archers, and whoever doesn't care to be "top-tier" pvper...
No reason to go for any 240.0 skills to get extra spells when you can just get a less comparable burst for less. which also leaves room for another skill and then some.
Everyone seems to be treating novas like they're the only thing that makes alchemy good. except Novas are strong enough by themselves, to make alchemy worth 100.0 skill investment.
It'll just be easier for me to add alchemy and get kills when people are down to 17-18% or lower HP than it would be to just kill people with a non-alchemy template. -and that won't fix the problem.
To the people who don't understand what leet is saying about positioning...It's clear why you are on that side of the argument because you know nothing about actual PvP, you're saying Nova's are instant how can poistioning help? Did you stop to think about how it could help offensively....When played at a high level this game is 100% positioning. The top players can see dumps coming, and they can set dumps up. This isn't about balancing pvp and templates etc...you want this to be less skill dependent so you can compete, if you don't get why I think nova's and positioning are skill dependent then you guys are truly hopeless and alot of time was wasted trying to explain things to you..
-Carter
-Carter
It can't be much less skill dependent than it is now.... How hard is it to "use item type" while within 5-tile range? melee dexers need tot try harder than that.. lol (probably why there are so few around).
This is what I mean, if you dont understand how it can be used skillfully, then there is no point in having a meaningful conversation about its true value to high level pvp. You simply don't understand.
You don't? I have it on loop!
with a delay, it would NEED to be used skillfully. that's the point in making it not, instant.
who said you use it every 2 minutes? you can't use it any faster than that....
and... you have to be pretty bad to miss with a nova. so I do not disagree with that at all.
No, a delay would be the opposite of skillful use because you have to hope that your opponent is dumb enough to stand still for a second after they were warned that a nova is incoming. Thats ridiculous, if you have funneled your opponent into a bad position by using your superior positioning and skill, why are we being punished because you guys tunnel vision so hard?
get rid of the warning....
get skilled with stun-punch so you can hit peope with a 1 second delayed nova... Oh, what's that? you run anatomy? get wrestling. not rocket science. it's UO.
How is it at all skillful using them with no delay? I've been waiting for someone, or ANYONE to answer that since novas were brought up.
Bringing it from 27 to 20 would decrease it by 26% damage. So... Why are you against the proposed change when it satisfies what you want?
Using a nova at the correct time is where the skill comes in. You use it too early and you very well may have gotten yourself killed in a 1v1.
20 = non-cursed -25% = 15. curse shouldn't effect it's damage, remember? lol
Using a nova at the correct time is where the skill comes in. You use it too early and you very well may have gotten yourself killed in a 1v1.
What? I didn't say that. I think you are mish-mashing what other people have said.
using a cast-able spell and getting it off is where the timing comes in too? but I guess, you could just stack that with Nova... no matter how you spin this, it takes less skill with nova than it does without.
No, I know you didn't say that. Chad's suggestion was to change the damage type of the potion to be 10 (+10 more if 100.0 alchemy = 20) that's what it does now... except it wouldn't be affected by resistances. edited to add: "Direct" damage = not affected by resistances.
I find it hilarious that these guys are fine with trigger, claiming it is avoidable...when it's really not...but novas are the main reason behind thier deaths.
Honestly, many people have answered this along with how they are also avoidable. You're the one refusing to accept those as valid arguments. I'll say it again. It comes down to knowing how to avoid them and how not to. Also being aware of healing pot timer to get a quick pot off knowing when to expect to get hit with them. Kiting damage, which cossak and DC are really, really bad at etc.
The majority of us have been willing to comprise, You have not.
We are ok with a dmg reduction 18-22 dmg 80ep 100 alch
We are ok with a delay and warning if it stays on the tile of your character and not the tile it was used on
We are ok with distributing dmg to reduce dmg if more than 1 target is in the effected tile radius
We are ok with shrinking the tile radius and keeping it instant
I'm not saying enact all of the above, but those were all compromises the people in favor of nova have presented. None of them appear to bee good enough for you. So, you just sit her and repeat yourself over and over acting like your solution should be the only solution.
I for one am proud of how civil we have kept this compared to other threads. Seems like the roles have turned from the competitive pvper being the ******* to 2 people (not you) who struggle to keep up with the game and current meta.
Where did anyone say trigger was avoidable? It's delayed, big difference... why do novas do the same or more damage with less than half the cooldown again?
Can any person throw a trigger and do 10-13 damage with no skill invested?
Well I give up guys, this guy will never understand the mechanics of this. He will never compromise. NOVAS R TEH CHEATING HACKING SUX BAN THEM ALL.
Because. And i cant believe we are still talking about this.
Lets see what u get with a spell trigger route.
Instant 10 tile spell cast
(Instant nova 5 tiles)
Or you can have sleep on trigger or you can have a instant heal on trigger. Its a more diverse spell it is better in every way the game is not just about damage its about utility.
So with 100 alchemy u get a higher damage 2 minute potion,
12 more (non permanent) stats that you can only aquire if you have a potion
(Lets not forget a fresh rezzed mystic can still use his abilities) an alchemist cannot.
A slightly better heal potion
Slightly better cure potions
And stronger conflags (30 seconds cooldown)
Do you forget that if you dont have the consumables your alchemy skill becomes a worthless 100 points invested?
So for another 140 points you get
-The single most effective heal in the game (not including 1 hour cooldown superheal)
-The sleep spell which in itself is extemely strong
-Spell trigger of your choosing
-Hailstorm
-Spell plague
-Rising Colossus???? Most op summon
-YOU CAN TAKE PEOPLE OUT OF ANIMAL FORM LOL
-A mana / stamina regen bonus
Do you get it yet???
Timed right delay or not your target is dead
I never said I wouldn't compromise. it just can't stay the way instant for that much damage.
It's not a game mechanic that causes it to miss...
I'd be more than fine either any other those suggestions. except #1 & #3 (#1 is almost exactly the same as it is now.... & #3 isn't based on one vs one) particularly, #4 I find interesting.... people think it's "skillful" to use it now, how many are going to cry it's useless with a 1-2 tile range?
The "cheating, hacking, blah-blah-blah" comments go, how come none of you post videos here?
5 minute cooldown on trigger, 240.0 skill investment for cleanse-winds & bombard on trigger (modified).
are you done?
except you can react to the delay, and the cooldowns vs skill point investments off-set that more than enough to cut novas down or out.
(it's not hard to bombard/G-heal), it's most definitely not hard to mini heal before trigger bombard hits (for 14 HPs!)
Man you are really just a moron. You are comparing apples and oranges kid what dont you get. Everything you have based your arguments on have been a bunch of BS because you dont want to go to a couple towns a day and use a purple potion and other people who invest there time in the game and promote server pvp by doing towns etc are just a bunch of idiots right lmao
now it's because I don't want to use novas? lol I have plenty of them. I don't do VvV for them because free-trial accounts got us as many as we could ever need... I just don't want to roll with alchemy on every template because there aren't any better options... not even anything that gives you as much as alchemy does.
Hehe, I'd kill more people by picking up archery like you =X
So reducing it by between 26 and 33% of the damage it does now is almost exactly the same as it is now? *shakes head*
Im glad you exploited the game to get unlimited novas so you can tell us about how you dont use them because they arent fair
Maybe but you would probably suck at that also just saying
Yeah, because you totally can't do that NOW or anything with a regular account. Oh wait. You can.
to non-cursed targets and one vs one, yes. (I did specify that, didn't I?)
A regular account that you PAY for you complete moron. If you want to pay $13 to delete chrs every week and get novas thats your choice but that is not the same thing.
I benefited by it by osmosis... (that's what guilds do, after all...)
I haven't made a free-trial account since... I don't even remember the last time tbh... but I have enough accounts and characters I could have enough potions to last me a very long time anyway.
(lol, you get up to 40, just for joining....)
(Lol shows how much you actually dont pvp if you think 40 is alot of novas) oh wait you just dont use them because you are above that level of gameplay
The point was, since you clearly missed it: Regardless of the account actually being paid for, you still have an unlimited source of novas and never actually need to do towns. Removing one way to do it didn't change much.
lol. Ok, good luck in your crusade. Weird that the main people that agree with you either 1. barely pvp and are really pvmers or 2. are really bad at pvp AND in your guild.
Always funny how that works out eh? A lot of the people posting in here- we all fight eachother, yet come to the same conclusions.
well, considering 40 novas should be enough to get 40 kills... according to Blazing, people always carry 2-3? LOL wouldn't be hard to make more than that. I just don't enjoy playing the same templates everyone else is.... (this is why I want focus spec from 12/13/2016 & tactics requirement removed)
and I still won't have alchemy on every character.