NEWS [UO.Com] Combat Changes in Testing

[UO News]

Greetings all, We want to start off by saying that we appreciate all your patience and feedback as we work through the combat updates on Test Center. This process has been different than our normal testing cycle and we appreciate all who have participated. These changes will not be deployed World Wide for quite some time and are subject to change. We have used this process to gauge player suggestions and iterate quickly on those ideas. Some ideas have been well received while others have not. We would like to let you where we currently stand in the process. Removing the […]

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[Lord Frodo]

• Weapon swing speed is now capped at 40% of base swing speed or 1.25 seconds, whichever is higher. The current Stamina cap is 250 and the current Swing Speed Increase cap is 60 which allows 4.25s and below weapons to swing at 1.25s. This change brings more balance, only allowing 3.5s and below weapons to reach 1.25s, which adds more value to those weapons besides weapon special moves. Out of all the suggested changes this one has the biggest impact on combat which is why we are cautious with moving forward and will require additional player feedback.

OMFG lets screw the majority of the player base all for a few whiny PvPers, way to go UO. Do the Devs understand that the PvPers are the MINORITY player base but will hurt the MAJORITY just to try and BALANCE PvP. Just another way to screw the honest player I guess.

 

[elster]

• Weapon swing speed is now capped at 40% of base swing speed or 1.25 seconds, whichever is higher. The current Stamina cap is 250 and the current Swing Speed Increase cap is 60 which allows 4.25s and below weapons to swing at 1.25s. This change brings more balance, only allowing 3.5s and below weapons to reach 1.25s, which adds more value to those weapons besides weapon special moves. Out of all the suggested changes this one has the biggest impact on combat which is why we are cautious with moving forward and will require additional player feedback.

OMFG lets screw the majority of the player base all for a few whiny PvPers, way to go UO. Do the Devs understand that the PvPers are the MINORITY player base but will hurt the MAJORITY just to try and BALANCE PvP. Just another way to screw the honest player I guess.

"Out of all the suggested changes this one has the biggest impact on combat which is why we are cautious with moving forward and will require additional player feedback."

Let's take a deep breathe now. Let's provide our feedback and opinions in a nice, civil, adult manner. No reason to panic. This is how development works. No one is trying to screw honest players. This is a process. Eventually it'll get to a point where mostly everyone is satisfied.

 

[Lord Frodo]

"Out of all the suggested changes this one has the biggest impact on combat which is why we are cautious with moving forward and will require additional player feedback."

Let's take a deep breathe now. Let's provide our feedback and opinions in a nice, civil, adult manner. No reason to panic. This is how development works. No one is trying to screw honest players. This is a process. Eventually it'll get to a point where mostly everyone is satisfied.

LMAO just like everything the PvPers whine about with NO CONSIDERATION to the MAJORITY of the UO player base. Give me a break how long you been playing UO and how many times has UO used the excuse to try and balance PvP, it is a JOKE. Guess we should all take Mesanna's advice and win at all costs.

 

[elster]

LMAO just like everything the PvPers whine about with NO CONSIDERATION to the MAJORITY of the UO player base. Give me a break how long you been playing UO and how many times has UO used the excuse to try and balance PvP, it is a JOKE. Guess we should all take Mesanna's advice and win at all costs.

Welp... I see there is no reasonable conversation to be had here. Carry on.

 

[Zeke]

Who is running around in a 250 Stamina Suit? 211 is hard enough to get to, never mind 250 and most of mine are at 180ish since it gets very expensive to get to 211.

 

[Lord Frodo]

Welp... I see there is no reasonable conversation to be had here. Carry on.

OMFG I LMMFAO We can't RANT and RAVE and WHINE like the PvPers do and if we do we are called unreasonable, now that is priceless.

 

[elster]

OMFG I LMMFAO We can't RANT and RAVE and WHINE like the PvPers do and if we do we are called unreasonable, now that is priceless.

I told "The PvPers" the same thing. This entire thing is an on-going process. The things you see today may not be there tomorrow. None of this is in production, it's UNDER DEVELOPMENT pending player feedback. Nothing you see affects your gameplay today at all, and it won't until it has been all hashed out. This is progress. This is iterative development. To panic over it is ridiculous.

 

[Giggles]

I think its fair to say that the majority of PvMers AND PvPers disagree with the SSI changes.

Lets work together in providing the devs with reasonable reasons as to why this is a problem, and offer better solutions, rather then finger pointing at and making fun of each others playstyles. That isn't constructive nor will it solve anything.

 

[Kiss Of Death]

REMOVE THE SSI changes, nobody wants them , you will just make people really mad at this.

REMOVE THE 60 tactics requirement, everybody was happy with NO TACTICS at all ( as it was many years ago).

 

[Cetric]

Remove the SSI changes, and just simply cap ANY ranged weap for archery or Throwing to cap at 1.5s swing speed

Remove tactics requirement for special moves

Removing focus sdi cap isn't bad... i dunno

 

[BeaIank]

I can live with a lower SSI cap IF the hit leech properties become more generous to balance this chance for PvM.
Some stuff will take a fair bit longer to kill thanks to this, but if I leech more from each hit, survivability won't be too much of an issue. Otherwise, well, you better tone down a lot of the new monsters...
Sure, it will suck to take 2, 3 minutes more to kill Corgul solo because my hammer pick will swing so much slower, and I will definitely retire my halberd fighter but alas, such is life.
In the end, survivability is what matters most for me in PvM (I would be less bitter about it if you also add spell leech properties on books for PvM. *wink, wink, nudge, nudge*).

Still, it looks like that a better way to solve this conundrum would be increasing the base speed of the problematic throwing and archery weapons so it wouldn't be possible to swing them at 1.25 seconds even with 60 SSI and 211 stamina.
Increase the leech cap on those to 75% instead of the current 50% of the melee weapons cap for the PvM crowd and it should go OK.

 

[PaithanTheElf]

It looks like the devs just scrapped all the ideas and gave up. Now, moving shot is back to not being changed, but SSI is? Now mages who only use magery as offense take a hit for no reason? I am mind blown with the last two iterations that have happened. I thought the devs were actually on to something for a second.

 

[virem]

• Focus Spec Update. Focus Spec has been through several iterations on Test Center. When Focus Spec was created back in Publish 71, the intent was to incentivize pure magic templates. With the testing of different implementations of Focus Spec, we decided to remove the SDI scaling due to the complexity of the system. We will continue to consider ways to simplify the classification of pure magic templates while providing a benefit to pure magic users in future testing.

Is this a joke? We are removing the sytem because the SDI scaling that we added was too confusing, that's that this says. It's been fine for what? 6 years now the way it was?

 

[Winker]

This is why PvP get so little love and attention. Bet Bleak now wishes he never stuck his toe in this pond.

 

[Legendary Rick]

Please DO NOT MAKE THIS SS change, please scrap this completely. This will effective people wayyy too much. This will make PvMing harder for players, and this will make Pvp archers even harder to play. Right now a good parry mage will BEAT the best PvP archer in this game in a 1v1 scenario in small area. Now 3 parry mages who are good and cross heal can beat 4-5 archers, if you make the swing speed change, and max Ss u can get 1.5sec on Comp bow, means most of the time you'll prob be swinging at 1.75s since you get cursed a ton in bigger fights or when your fighting mages. I think the moving shot change that was brought up originally was a good way to make archers weaker and fair. When you lower SS cap to 40 from 60, that's like taking away Fast Cast time from mages. That's just not FAIR at all! Very bad door to open if you want to ruin tons of peoples game play, archer is the most popular templates in this game for PVM & PVP no reason to handicap them so badly by making them swing sooo much slower. BAD IDEA PLEASE SCRAP THIS CHANGE!!

 

[Lord Frodo]

This is why PvP get so little love and attention. Bet Bleak now wishes he never stuck his toe in this pond.

The problem is when ever they try to FIX PvP it bleeds over into PvM. All PvP are getting the same NERF so it balances its self out where the PvMers get NERFED but they do not change the MOBs so it affects us more. We hear all the time adapt, to bad, Well it works both ways. This SSI hit will affect PvMers greater than it will the PvPers. The players are the ones doing all the talking, when are we going to hear from the DEVs as to why they think this is the right thing to do?

 

[randy]

Easy to kill monsters deal with it.

 

[Grazz't1970]

Will u trammy whiners please go to the BOD threads and read. Pot meet kettle. Pvpers also pvm. Reverse is far less true. Oh the hypocrisy!!! In the words of the immortal Sergeant Hulka - " lighten up Francis!!!"

 

[virem]

thank god they finally nerfed archers. Love the SSI change.

 

[DJ Diddles]

Just going to post this again: @Bleak @Kyronix

GET RID OF 1.25s ranged weapons (at least in PvP), leave base swing speed alone across the board. Given your analysis you guys are trying to curb 1.25s weapons in PvP, not alienate weapons that many people use at 1.5s currently that they would no longer be able to. You guys did not do your math given how many weapons you have now relegated to a base swing that is not a compatible swinging speed in this game.

These are the weapons that will be affected by this change (across PvM and PvP, only pointing out weapons that are regularly used):

1. Double Axe (1.3s swing base, effectively 1.5s, was 1.25 before this change)
2. Longsword (1.4s swing base, effectively 1.5s, was 1.25 before this change)
3. No-Dachi (1.4s swing base, effectively 1.5s, was 1.25 before this change)
4. War Hammer (1.5s swing base, effectively 1.5s, was 1.25 before this change)
5. Hammer Pick (1.3s swing base, effectively 1.5s, was 1.25 before this change)
6. Maul (1.4s swing base, effectively 1.5s, was 1.25s before this change)
7. Bow (1.7s swing base, effectively 1.75s, was 1.5s before this change)
8. Composite Bow (1.6s swing base, effectively 1.75s, was 1.25s before this change)
9. Crossbow (1.8s swing base, effectively 2.0s, was 1.5s before this change)
10. Elven Composite Longbow (1.5 swing base, effectively 1.5s, was 1.25s before this change)
11. Heavy Crossbow (2s swing base, effectively 2s, was 1.75s before this change)
12. Yumi (1.3s swing base, effectively 1.5s, was 1.25s before this change)
13. Lance (1.7s swing base, effectively 1.75s, was 1.5s before this change)
14. Lajatang (1.4s swing base, effectively 1.5s, was 1.25s before this change)
15. Cyclone (1.3s swing base, effectively 1.5s, was 1.25s before this change)
16. Soul Glaive (1.6s swing base, effectively 1.75s, was 1.25s before this change)

Also, I'm willing to go out and say that no one is using a 250 stamina suit anywhere in this game, specifically because that's another number that isn't at a swing speed threshold. Never seen a 240 stamina suit, either. Also, the method in which you get 240+ stamina is pretty ridiculous:

• 150 from dexterity
• 60 from armor slots (10 on each piece, increase legs to 12 once new Doom artifacts arrive)
• 10 across jewelry pieces
• 10 from Grugor's shield
• 10 from Obi
• 5 from a weapon
• 1 from sash
• = 246

No one is using a Grugor's shield, so I don't think anyone is even running a 240 stamina suit at all.

 

[Grace of Minoc]

"Out of all the suggested changes this one has the biggest impact on combat which is why we are cautious with moving forward and will require additional player feedback."

Let's take a deep breathe now. Let's provide our feedback and opinions in a nice, civil, adult manner. No reason to panic. This is how development works. No one is trying to screw honest players. This is a process. Eventually it'll get to a point where mostly everyone is satisfied.

I agree, however this is a huge detriment to your everyday pvm archer. Most use composite bows, which need the 45 ssi to reach just the 1.5 with 180 or more stamina. Took a lot of gold to invest in the slayer bows for her. It would be a HUGE hit to my archer if this were to go forward.

 

[MalagAste]

Keep telling you people you want to know why people hate PvP .... because it keeps borking up the PvM...

Nerfing Archers with this SSI thing is KILLING the archers template and playstyle in PvM and putting it at a disadvantage.

Have a hard enough time at EM Events and such getting looting rights and all now you want to make archers shoot FAR less often just because you get your panties in a bunch in PvP against archers... boo hoo they swing too fast... yet a mage can hit just as fast do dozens of other crippling things and they NEVER MISS.

Keep Fel in Fel... leave it out of ruining gameplay for the rest of us.

 

[virem]

Please lower HP cap to 100 or remove greater heal from magery so that someone might actually die in this post-archer 20 SDI era

 

[drcossack]

Keep telling you people you want to know why people hate PvP .... because it keeps borking up the PvM...

Nerfing Archers with this SSI thing is KILLING the archers template and playstyle in PvM and putting it at a disadvantage.

Have a hard enough time at EM Events and such getting looting rights and all now you want to make archers shoot FAR less often just because you get your panties in a bunch in PvP against archers... boo hoo they swing too fast... yet a mage can hit just as fast do dozens of other crippling things and they NEVER MISS.

Keep Fel in Fel... leave it out of ruining gameplay for the rest of us.

And, with the exception of the SSI change, which EVERYONE agrees is stupid, what about any of the proposed changes on TC1 has had any effect on pvm? If you mean the tactics removal: no. Doing as much damage as possible is still the goal in pvm, so nobody's going to remove it from their pvm characters.

I didn't test the damage of Armor Ignore w/no tactics yesterday (rather, I couldn't, due to doing my tests on a live shard), but my auto-attacks in a pvm setting (100 DI from items, double slayer) did far less than they normally did. I can get triple-digit damage just from 2 Super Slayers @ 120/120. At 120/0 Tactics, I was struggling to get out of the low 90's with my auto-attacks. My AI damage would take a similar hit, which I didn't need to test: My Anatomy-less Sampire only averages about 156 damage at maximum per AI.

Also, if you have a hard time getting looting rights, even with an archer, perhaps you should look at the following: Your template (is it lacking in 120's?), your suit, or your connection. It's not hard AT ALL for me to do enough damage, whether at an event or not (although I do need to be able to SEE the boss at an EM event...)

 

[DJ Diddles]

Removing the Tactics requirements on weapon special moves. This change brings more diversity to template selection by removing the skill points required to execute weapon special moves. It is our philosophy that skill investment is a necessary tradeoff to reap derived skill benefits. As such, Tactics should be a requirement for the use of weapon special moves just like Animal Lore is required to control tamed pets and Chivalry is required to use paladin abilities. The current change is a compromise which allows access to weapon special moves at 30 Tactics and 30 Weapon Skill for primary moves and 60 Tactics and 60 Weapon Skill for secondary moves.

Yeah, and that skill investment is the weapon skill. You will not increase diversity at all by requiring 30/60 tactics for primary and secondary specials. Perhaps we'd get somewhere if you allow modified tactics and weapon skill to be a part of this 30/60 skill threshold, but I don't think that's the direction you're going.

Tactics will be far from obsolete with the change from 12/13 (no tactics required for specials at all), as many templates will keep it for the damage increase.

 

[Kiss Of Death]

The problems of archers were the moving shots going for poison or fire dmg after cursed or corpse skinned or both... Dealing crazy nonsense dmg. Now the moving shots will do phys dmg, problem solved.

Get rid of the ssi changes and the 60 tact requirements

 

[Merus]

@Bleak

I know I, and many others like me, will be MAJORLY hacked off if you screw over swing speed on my PVM characters who use a composite bow or a double axe. Many of us have put considerable effort/money into getting just the right suits for a 1.25 swing just for PVM.

IMO the issue is not so much how fast the bows swing in PVP, it's how much damage they can do if the RNG lands several successive blows.

We can change mana cost on successive specials within a certain time, what about variable damage caps OR HCI penalties on successive special blows? Like the first AI caps at 35 for PvP, but maybe the second one within 2 seconds caps at 30? Maybe the first moving shot has a HCI penalty of 5, but the second within 2 seconds is 10... etc etc.

This would allow for max swing speed, but add an element of complexity to using specials over just mash mash mash and hope the RNG likes you.

 

[Merlin]

Do not make any changes to how SSI currently works in-game.

Do not nerf moving shot... leave it completely as is.

Keep tactics requirement as is.

Change Saving Throw to the first version of Warriror's Gifts with +15 HPI over the cap.

Leave SDI cap for PVP as is.

 

[transcendent]

REMOVE TACTICS REQUIREMENTS!

 

[randy]

These poor guys haha. I want things nerfed oh wait you're nerfing my template this is BS!!! But hey since pvmers wanted to get involved with PVP changes I look forward to seeing what we can do for PVM nerfs.

Part of me thinks these guys don't actually want to make changes so they keep throwing out ridiculous proposals so everyone sees how bad it can be and beg for it to be left alone allowing them to do nothing which was the plan all along!

 

[Necron87]

I can not understand, if almost all players,asking developers ,no change cap SSI,why do these changes in SSI? )))

 

[DJAd]

REMOVE THE SSI changes, nobody wants them , you will just make people really mad at this.

REMOVE THE 60 tactics requirement, everybody was happy with NO TACTICS at all ( as it was many years ago).

+1

 

[PaithanTheElf]

Can we remove SSI and leech property effects for PvM purposes only? I think it is highly overpowered and a huge unfair advantage in the PvM world.

 

[kelmo]

That sort of comment helps.

 

[Grazz't1970]

Cap skills on the tram side at 100. Leave fel in fel

 

[Spartan]

I'm with many on a couple items ...

Don't mess with SSI and leave Tactics as it is. I can't speak to most of the other items in the list but these are very important to my game.

 

[cobb]

The Tactics requirement is seriously hurting the diversity of templates in this game. Please get rid of it. It wouldn't affect pvm at all.

 

[cobb]

Just roll back to the previous update, where most people were happy

 

[virem]

please remove super slayers from the game, kills my pvp pets too fast.

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

Hopefully this can help shed light on how to simplify the focus break list because after reading what the devs wrote regarding it, I feel like they gave up in frustration. You can love it or hate it. You can provide feedback, make suggestions or tell me to **** off. I'm just trying to get this game moving forward.

Here are my thoughts on a focus break list:

• Mystic spells and Necro spells should not be effected by Inscription.
  
• Mystic and Necro Spells should have an SDI cap of 15
  
• The focus break list should be put into 3 tiers: 30sdi/25sdi/20sdi before the inscription bonus of 10% (Magery Spells Only)
  
• The 30 modified skill points in any of the skill lines should not drop you out of the focus line you are on as long as the modified skill is in the same focus line.

1) 30sdi: Magery, Resist, Anatomy, Scribe, Poison, Med, Alchemy, Wrestling (this is the only mele I felt appropriate because of its history of being "pure mage")
So a 30 SDI mage has to use 720 skill points(or more w/skill inc) in any of the above skills. They cannot use another spell line, Mele/Ranged, Parry, Taming, Bushido, Ninja or Chiv

2) 25sdi: Magery, Resist, Mystic, Necro, Mele, Ranged, Parry, Taming, Bushido, Ninja, Spellweaving or Chiv
So a 25 SDI mage needs to use 720 skills(or more w/skill inc) in any two skill lines of the above skills. They cannot use a third spell line, Mele/Ranged, Parry, taming, Bushido, Ninja or Chiv
Example:

• mage/eval/resist/mystic/focus/scribe
• mage/eval/resist/Necro/SS/scribe
• mage/eval/resist/Swords/tact/Scribe

3) 20sdi: Magery/Resist/Mystic/Necro/Mele/Ranged, Parry, Taming, Bushido, Ninja or Chiv
So a 20 sdi mage can use any combination of 3 or more of the above skill lines and as much skill inc as you want. This balances out those that have insane skill inc jewels against those that don't.
Example:

• mage/eval/resist/mystic/focus/parry
• mage/eval/resist/mystic/focus/ninja
• mage/eval/resist/Necro/SS/parry

This is also based off of the main skill of the skill lines. I want to get rid of the 30 or more modified skill entirely and keep it all relevant to the 3 proposed tiers. The reason I am against the 30 modded skill penalty is because in today's suits people are playing with 30-60 skill inc on average. There is no reason to penalize them on the loot the game is providing. It makes certain combos acceptable I.E. Wizard's Cruio/Mark of Trave/Crystalline ring. This combo would land you on the 2 tier (25sdi) because crystalline has 20 focus but you are getting +40 skill inc in magery. It's simple, if you have .01 skill or more in a main skill not in your current line you lose 5sdi. If you have 2 skills .01 or more not in your current line you lose 10 sdi

Again, this is my attempt to simplify the focus spec because I am failing to see how it's all that complicated. Suggestions welcomed.

 

[Skalazar]

@Bleak

Can you just get a small group of players together like @-Hey Arnold- @CovenantX and @chad

The four of you should easily be able to discuss balance updates and find solutions. The constant revisions of changes is going no where. To many voices on stratics all with different opinions many to emotionally attached to specific aspects of the game and unwilling to accept compromise.

 

[kelmo]

Last I looked this thread is titled, "Combat Changes in Testing". So go test! Let Bleak do his thing and tweak at the numbers. Give constructive criticism and/or praise as you feel is warranted. Avoid personal attacks and deciding who can and can not comment, that stuff is boring and cumbersome to wade through.

You can not expect that the changes in one aspect of the game would not have consequential effects on other parts of the game. I can not wait to see how some of these changes effect Siege. Unfortunately I am unable to transfer my character with MR1 LRC to test center.

So... I will read the pertinent threads and try to keep up. More testing, less crying.

 

[PaithanTheElf]

That sort of comment helps.

It helps just as much as a pvmer commenting in pvp changes thread that doesn't affect them.

 

[Merlin]

Can we remove SSI and leech property effects for PvM purposes only? I think it is highly overpowered and a huge unfair advantage in the PvM world.

Will u trammy whiners please go to the BOD threads and read. Pot meet kettle. Pvpers also pvm. Reverse is far less true. Oh the hypocrisy!!! In the words of the immortal Sergeant Hulka - " lighten up Francis!!!"

please remove super slayers from the game, kills my pvp pets too fast.

Just because people disagree with your precious PVP opinions doesn't mean they're acting in a nefarious or disingenuous fashion.

The Tactics requirement is seriously hurting the diversity of templates in this game. Please get rid of it. It wouldn't affect pvm at all.

With the skill requirement being lowered, you still have 660 skill points available to use. That's enough for 3 skills at 120 and 3 skills at 100. I think that gives enough space for plenty of template diversity.

@Bleak

Can you just get a small group of players together like @-Hey Arnold- @CovenantX and @chad

The four of you should easily be able to discuss balance updates and find solutions. The constant revisions of changes is going no where. To many voices on stratics all with different opinions many to emotionally attached to specific aspects of the game and unwilling to accept compromise.

It helps just as much as a pvmer commenting in pvp changes thread that doesn't affect them.

These changes affect all of us, and everyone is allowed to have an opinion on them.

 

[PaithanTheElf]

More testing, less crying.

I don't think you are keeping up. Majority of people were happy with the changes from 2 days ago. There were still a few items that needed addressed, then they scrapped most of it. What is the point of testing and giving feedback if they just scrap it the next day? It is actually work to test and write arguments for/against a change. When it falls on deaf ears, the likelihood that someone will keep repeating the same process over and over is..well.. insane.

 

[PaithanTheElf]

These changes affect all of us, and everyone is allowed to have an opinion on them.

Ok, then when you say to change something or not to change something.. how about you give a reason why like everyone else. Otherwise you look foolish and wonder why people don't take you seriously.

 

[Smoot]

Unfortunately I am unable to transfer my character with MR1 LRC to test center.

you can make a 100 lrc / casting / mr character instantly with just the free arties you get.

 

[Merlin]

Ok, then when you say to change something or not to change something.. how about you give a reason why like everyone else. Otherwise you look foolish and wonder why people don't take you seriously.

My points were short and concise position statements. I can give as much or little reason to my positions as I'd like, as can you or anyone else.

How about when someone disagrees with you, you tell them why rather making personal attacks like this one? It seems like whenever someone interjects into a conversation and you don't like it, you make it personal. This needs to stop ASAP.

 

[Bombastic Fail]

Does anyone honestly read anyone else's post? I swear things are so overlooked. People see "their" template nerfed, and have a cow. Just using myself an an example, I posted VARIOUS changes, nerfs, and fixes to ALL templates. So clearly, I am biased, correct? /sarcasm


@Bleak Needs to look at some of the posts, see people who are "levelheaded" and NOT BIASED (Multi changes) and pull them together. I know he is all about helping, but listening to the squeaky wheel minority who is here complaining "OMG NOOO DONT CHANGE THAT IT HURTS ME" is not the way to balance PvP.


I've grown annoyed putting in the time and with helping out by doing proper testing, and offering numbers / suggestions / pros&cons for people to drown me out with posts like "OMG nOOB that's my template. Leave it be."


Ultimately, whatever Bleak says, goes. You people will still play (And pay for the game). You will still complain. You will still look for the FotM template to kill people. That will be that.



My .02 cents.