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NEWS [UO.Com] Publish 95 Comes to TC1

Uriah Heep

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The goal would be to give the low end bods a small value and allow them to accrue. Otherwise the banking system is completely pointless and should be removed
I thought that was where they wanted to take us, but evidence points to the4 contrary. At one M&G Mesanna said their goal was to get people to turn in bods, not save them. But who is gonna do them to turn them in to bank for such a low % of their value? And why, if I turn in a 400 point bod and the reward I pick is only 300 pts, can that 100 left not be banked for later?

We still have to play the save sbods game and hoard and put books on vendors for storage, because small bods still cannot be stacked to acrue points for larger rewards. Except that now, instead of 2 trades to hoard bods for, we get to hoard bods for like 6 trades...WTF?!?!?!

And WTF am I being cheated out of points because the system that lets me have full value 'might' also let a scripter have full value. Quit penalizing players for everything the scripter 'might' do, if you want to slow him down, then do something to the scripter, NOT TO US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

OREOGL

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I have finally had the opportunity to test out the BODs on test center this morning, and since I have a strong interest in BODs I believe I am obligated to provide some feedback. It seems the same BOD reward table is being employed, with the main difference being that you can now claim any reward that is beneath the "classic" reward, and save 0.05% of the points if you do not choose a reward. Same system, but with a few extra features.

Positive Feedback:
*High charge crafting tools are neat
*Crafting loss talismans, also neat. I like that I can work towards a better crafting talisman through BODs, even though the loss prevention property isn't particularly useful at 120 blacksmithing
*Verite and Valorite small BODs can actually be used to get POFs - honestly this is only half a pro for reasons I shall explain later.
*Despite the negative feedback I am about to write, I can still ignore all the new features and just get POFs and copper runics as I have before.

Miscellaneous Feedback:
*I got a BOD for 10x Faerie Fire. It turned out to be worth only 10 points.
*Why bother having mining gloves +1 and +3? I fail to see the point of keeping those.
*Why does the sturdy pickaxe and the sturdy shovel have different point costs?

Now for the negatives. It saddens me to write this because this revamp doesn't really solve the fundamental problems of BODs. A lot of people in the thread are criticizing the .05% bank rate. I understand why this was done. The reason for such a low rate is that the devs do not want players to be grinding out low level BODs -exclusively- to get the big rewards. Example: Val runic = 1200 points. That is equivalent to 240,000 bankable points, meaning you'd have to bank that many points worth of BODs to get a val runic. If I were to bribe up every weapon deed I came across, it would take me 960 20/exc weapon BODs to have enough banked points for a val runic. 360 20/exc weapon BODs to have enough for a single POF. The problem is, whether or not the rate is too low is missing the point, as well as a fundamental problem with BODs.

The fundamental problem is, the actual value of BODs isn't being taken into account. First, let's look at the ores and their rarities (as documented on the Stratics Mining Essay):

Iron ~50%
Dull Copper 11.2%
Shadow Iron 9.8%
Copper 8.4%
Bronze 7.0%
Gold 5.6%
Agapite 4.2%
Verite 2.8%
Valorite 1.0 to 1.4%

So if you were to mine 1,000 ores at random, statistically you should come up with these quantities:

10 - valorite
28- verite
42 - agapite
56 - gold
70 - bronze
84 - copper
98 - shadow iron
112 - dull copper
500 - iron

We can clearly see there is a wide range of values at play here. Valorite is 50x as valuable as iron, because for every 1 valorite ore you get, you will have approximately 50 iron ores. This value is not being taken into account with BODs. Consider: a 20/exc/val BOD is worth 800 points. What is the item being crafted though? If it were a gorget, then I would have to use 200 valorite ingots. If it was a platemail tunic, I would have to use 500 ingots. 200 ingots, 500 ingots, yet the BOD is worth the same number of points. It gets even more insane with LBODs, when you take into account quanties 10, 15 and 20 covering a wide range of resource costs.

Let's look at the ore maps. I had the opportunity to test these out. I started with a gold map (acquired in Trammel). From this, I was able to mine 227 gold ore and 31 granite. That is 448 gold ingots. I got a second gold map, this time in Felucca. I didn't write down the result, but after turning off stone mining I pulled in slightly less than 900 gold ingots. Then I decided to go for the big one, a valorite map. I wanted to see if the valorite map would have more uses than the gold map. It did not, only coming with 213 uses. Let's do the math - that comes out to 852 valorite ingots IF I don't fail the smelt. Why is this a problem? Because the valorite map costs 1150 points. I put together a 20/exc/valorite/plate LBOD for this - it costs me untold hundreds of thousands of gold just to bribe it and the components up, and it costs over 2000 valorite ingots just to fill. So let me get this straight - I spend 2000 valorite ingots so I can mine <1000 valorite ingots in Felucca? But wait, I hear you say, you don't have to redeem a 20/exc/valorite/plate LBOD, you can also redeem a 10/exc/valorite/plate LBOD. Great, but do you know how god damn hard that is to bribe up? I am talking about bribing something up to valorite without the quantity being affected, it's freakin' imposible and excessively expensive. And for what, 800 valorite ingots if I luckily do not fail the smelt? And that's ignoring the fact that a 10/exc/valorite/plate costs 1000 valorite ingots, so we're still losing ingots in the process. Maybe instead you suggest I do a 20/exc/verite/plate. 2000 verite ingots for 800-900 valorite ingots? Doesn't seem worth it to me, considering how difficult it would be to bribe up. NOTE: Bribing anything below maximum values is necessarily difficult, because you an't control what property gets upgraded.

But wait again, I hear you say. You can use bankable points to earn the map over time. Great, well ignoring the fact that that would take forever, let's do the math. I need 230,000 bankable points to get the map. Let's assume I went the weapon BOD route, and managed to come across all dagger BODs, bribing them up to 20/exc. That is 250 points each, at 60 iron ingots a pop. 920 BODs and 55,200 iron ingots later, I can now mine 800-900 val ingots. Remember the ratios above? 1 mined valorite ore for every 50 iron ore and that's assuming the lowest ingot-intensive craftable. Let's say I went the 20/exc/val/ringmail gloves route instead. 200 valorite ingots a pop, 800 points each. 288 BODs and 57,600 valorite ingots later, I can now get a map that will let me mine 800-900 valorite ingots.

Look, the points you earn from BODs should be based on the ingot value of the BOD. 1 iron ingot = 1 point. 1 valorite ingot = 50 points. Adjust the reward costs accordingly. It should not take 2000 valorite ingots to get a val runic hammer. It should not take more than 800-900 valorite ingots to get a valorite mining map.

Suppose we adjusted the costs, but kept the same relative reward table. 2000 valorite ingots earned 100,000 points, the new hypothetical cost for a valorite runic. Iron ingots get 1 point each. Ironically, it would take 100,000 iron ingots worth of small BODs to get a valorite runic, more than the 55,200 iron ingots worth of dagger BODs from the example above.

See, here is the problem. You ask, why would anyone do high-level BODs when they can grind out small ones? I ask: why would anyone want to do higher ingot cost BODs? Why do halberds? Why do platemail tunics? Why do quantity 20 when you can do quantity 10? (remember, 10 adds 10 points, 15 adds 25 points, 20 adds 50 points). The revamp necessarily makes higher level BODs even more useless than they were before. And this is not even mentioning the fact that LBODs are still a huge pain in the butt to fill because you have to have their SBOD components. Please, for the love of god, let me fill LBODs directly without SBODs!

To be honest, I will still use the BOD system as I have before, bribing up gold/agapite small bods to get POFs and copper runics. However at this point I think I will not be bothering with LBODs or any other aspect of the system. The randomness of bribing, the ingot costs, the lack of multiplayer features; it all seems rather arbitrary. Crawling through a labyrinth so I can trade ingots for a reward of lesser value. Why even bother with valorite runics, we have legendary artifacts. Ah well.

Thus completes my rant- er, I mean, feedback.

This hit it on the head, they didn't appear to have any concept of value other than assigning a random scale of points with a fractional banking system.


Both of which are worse than we have currently.
 

OREOGL

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I thought that was where they wanted to take us, but evidence points to the4 contrary. At one M&G Mesanna said their goal was to get people to turn in bods, not save them. But who is gonna do them to turn them in to bank for such a low % of their value? And why, if I turn in a 400 point bod and the reward I pick is only 300 pts, can that 100 left not be banked for later?

We still have to play the save sbods game and hoard and put books on vendors for storage, because small bods still cannot be stacked to acrue points for larger rewards. Except that now, instead of 2 trades to hoard bods for, we get to hoard bods for like 6 trades...WTF?!?!?!

And WTF am I being cheated out of points because the system that lets me have full value 'might' also let a scripter have full value. Quit penalizing players for everything the scripter 'might' do, if you want to slow him down, then do something to the scripter, NOT TO US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No arguments here. That WAS the goal. I hope they manage to begin tweaking the banking scale prior to release.
 

Minerva Foxglove

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Is there any way to see how that Christmads tree is doing? how much needed for it to grow? I have turned in insane amount of filled Bods today and nothing happened. Like several k of larges for horbed and barbed kits bless deeds 120 PS and all sorts of PoF smalls and atleast 500 for hammers up to bronze. I have a feeling something is not working as intended *sigh* On a prodo shard this would never be done.
 

Deraj

Sage
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Stratics Legend
The bods point value should show on the bod on mouseover - since we don't know it's value until we hand it over to NPC, and at that point you cannot retrieve it, just bank it for a ridiculously low point value
I'll do you one better. Not only should the point value be displayed, but the ingot cost should also be displayed below that. That way we will all be able to see how out of balance the values BODs are with their respective costs.
 

Lord Frodo

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I agree that the scale needs to take into account the ingot value, but the randomized BODs adds a lot to the "value". A large valorite BOD and getting all the small valorite BODs to fill it is much harder than just getting enough Val ingots to fill it.
BRIBE
 

Deraj

Sage
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Stratics Legend
Let's take another look at the problem with the point system.

BOD point value is determined in party by a quantity score:
Qty 10 = +10 points
Qty 15 = +25 points
Qty 20 = +50 points

So in essence, by DOUBLING the resource cost of a BOD, we are gaining an extra 40 points, or 0.2 bankable points.

Meanwhile, "Exceptional" adds a whopping 200 points, but how exactly does it affect the resource cost? For the overwhelming majority of craftables (at least, in the blacksmith menu), a legendary smith can produce exceptionals 100% of the time. A small number of higher skill items can be exceptional 100% of the time with a talisman. A small, handful of very high skill items, like platemail tunics, platemail leggings, will actually experience an additional resource cost (but not by much) because an exceptional item wasn't produced. So a property that is almost entirely irrelevant to most blacksmith BODs produces 200 points, or 1 bankable point at no additional resource cost (or a very minimal cost). This is not balanced.
 

Deraj

Sage
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Another thought, at this point shouldn't bribing work in the opposite direction when it comes to quantity? At the moment it's basically "Hi Mr Blacksmith, if I slipped you some gold under the table will you double the cost of this BOD while providing no significant additional reward?"

If you are planning on going the banking route, I would strongly recommend going for BODs that are no more than 10 quantity, and exceptional. I mean, why double your resource cost for nothing? Throw away all those nasty 15 and 20 quantity and normal BODs. You're wasting time and resources on them. With iron of course you are getting the most bang for your buck, so I would steer clear of higher level ores for banking.
 

Uriah Heep

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One other thing that should have been done in a BOD revamp, is scaling the BODS to the claimer. There's no way my Legendary smith should consistently be given weapon and shield smallbods.
Nor should the legendary tailor consistently receiving 10-15 pc normal cloth bods.
And don't start hollering bribe...it isn't reliable
 

Lord Arm

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the reason u dont see many bod runners anymore is u can fill and turn in 500 bods and u get 500 bods back, u also can get 3 bods at once every 18 hours. so easy to get the bod u need from bribing. I'm glad they removing the bump up on certain bods. hate turning in a horn kit bod and getting a 120 tailor instead lol. I'm not sure why they give extra points that go away after u choose a reward, give reason to complain.
anyone noticed any change in the amount of money for turning in bods changed?
 

Deraj

Sage
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Another thought, regarding ore maps. Shouldn't anything concerning maps land squarely in the domain of cartography? I don't know, it seems like having ore maps dropping as loot like treasure maps to be decoded by cartographers would be a much better implementation than a crafter trading ingots in exchange for a map to find more ingots.
 

Kojak

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I love how everybody's doing all these fancy calculations on higher ore colored bods - let's face it, the way to go is to just get .1 on every skill, grab all the iron ore low level bods - fill them in and bank the point, rinse repeat - this isn't rocket science :)
 

Thrakkar

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@Kyronix
If the reward points on a BOD can be calculated anyways with size, quantity, norm/ex & material, it would be nice, if you could include the amount of points on the tooltip of the BOD upfront...
Any maybe the amount of rewarded gold as well, while we're still at it.
Because UO has the habit of leaving the player in the dark. Having either to wait for a UI mod, which does the math or look it up on the internet.
Would be a quality of life improvement...

I'm not sure why they give extra points that go away after u choose a reward, give reason to complain.
They're not extra points, which go away. That's the point value of the BOD. You can choose a single reward which costs less or equal points.

In this case, the system will have to be changed to allow us to pick multiple rewards up to the point value of the bod.
1 BOD = 1 reward. That obviously hasn't changed. And I don't see why it should change.
As a compromise they could bank the remaining points with the usual percentage as if you would not instantly turn it in.
 

R Traveler

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It is possible to make exceptional runebooks, but I can't bribe 20 normal runebooks BOD to better
 

Kyronix

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There's a lot of great feedback, keep it coming. Thanks!
 

Kyronix

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When does the festival start? I was able to advance the tree in Britain on TC1. No gift bag yet though
The festival is already active in Britain. As more BODs get turned in the tree will get bigger and better! Last time I checked it was a wee green tree, so there's still more room to grow!
 

Sinder Shayde

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[QUOTE tree.jpg ="Kyronix, post: 2773777, member: 164661"]The festival is already active in Britain. As more BODs get turned in the tree will get bigger and better! Last time I checked it was a wee green tree, so there's still more room to grow![/QUOTE]


The Tree is at its full state, at least it appears to be.
 

MalagAste

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[QUOTE View attachment 56372 ="Kyronix, post: 2773777, member: 164661"]The festival is already active in Britain. As more BODs get turned in the tree will get bigger and better! Last time I checked it was a wee green tree, so there's still more room to grow!
The Tree is at its full state, at least it appears to be.[/QUOTE]

No when it's full I believe it will have candles on it that are lit...
 

Kyronix

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[QUOTE View attachment 56372 ="Kyronix, post: 2773777, member: 164661"]The festival is already active in Britain. As more BODs get turned in the tree will get bigger and better! Last time I checked it was a wee green tree, so there's still more room to grow!

The Tree is at its full state, at least it appears to be.[/QUOTE]

Indeed it is! Someone has been busy with BODs!
 

Blackweb

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I added a small BOD to a large for inscription, and the small disappeared and did not show as having been filled on the large.
 

Larisa

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Indeed it is! Someone has been busy with BODs!
I know who![/QUOTE]

Did you get your gift??

giftcraft.jpg

I didn't think it was going to be over so fast, was so busy this weekend I only turned in 3 BOD's :(

I went to turn one in just now and got the message :)

citygifts.jpg
 

Minerva Foxglove

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Hehe sorry I thought it was going to grow taller , my mistake. I turned in an insane amount of bods on 3 accounts and got three lovely boxes with a virtue pillow in each. The box makes me interested in doing this at my shard. But not sacrificeing crazy amounts ..is there any way to figure out how much to get a box..
 

BeaIank

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@Kyronix : Can you guys also check and fix the fel turtle spawn altar at this publish?
At least on Legends, you can only activate that altar and spawn once per day. After that, you have to wait for server up to be able to do the fel turtle spawn again. :(
Also, it appears that somehow the fire fish pie buff doesn't soak damage from the infernals fire trail attack, nor from the turtle fire breath attack. Could this be checked too, pretty pretty please with sugar on top? :)
 

CronusVl

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
About bribe, my offer. May be you can add points system for bribe, 100 bribes(for each skill) in day for 1 account. You can collect this up to 1000 and u can bribe any vendor.
Price on bribe may be change from bribes, up to 100, minumum, if more - then more expensive and after 700-800 very expensive.
Then you can choose any time and work normal with this.
Because now bribe system not so good and with many new bods - for some people, it will be hell(and sometime VVV system does not give you recall to city) .


I dont know still what need for new BODS(as tinker, fletcher and etc), but for tailoring, my offer - remove gump with yes-no for all little bods and give points for this(as default), depend from material and amount. For BS - little Iron BODs - also.
And big question about points, IMHO, but i thought that new system will be work differently.
As variant 2 large verite BODs(6 items) - you can get points for 1 valorite runics, as variant.
4 large agapite BODs(6 items) too 1 valorite runic, or 8 gold large gold BODS.
 
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Minerva Foxglove

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It doesnt look like we will get the "fill from backpack" option people asked for. Its so great for trade quests I wish every day when I quest that it was the same for bods. Would it make it easier for scripters or whats the reason? Im pretty clueless with tec stuff . And I do a l o t of BODS already..:Begging:
 

Uriah Heep

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There's a lot of great feedback, keep it coming. Thanks!
Please have the point value of the bods show on the bods upon mouseover. Seriously. So that at the time we receive it, we can decide if it is worth doing or not. Especially the new bods, preferrably all the bods. there are a lot of bods being handed out that quite frankly the rewards are not worth spending the time and materials on.

If this goes live as is, you're gonna have a whole lot more mad people than you have at the present time with the low point banking %.
 

Cyrah

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I keep forgetting this :( thank you for the new lighter back packs! Also the gift box for the tree is very pretty. Thank you.
 

Drowy

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If you craft Fukiya Darts, they use all the wood you have in bagpack no matter what number you wanted to craft (170 Wood = 170 Fukiya Darts even if I just typed 10 items to craft). If you want to fill a Bod with them, you can also only use all fukiya Darts, but they only count as one item. This is because you cant unstack them.
 

THP

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sadly no collectable in the 2016 gifts...the boxes look new hues though...
 

Larisa

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The Artisan Festival only lasts 3 days in each City, with the 4th for claiming your reward.
Yeah..the publish came out on the 3rd....today is the 6th so technically it should still be running if it was activated the minute the publish hit TC1 yes?
 

THP

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hopefully the sleighs will be in 12 different hues with a rare hue...please not a collection of 20 identicals with slight name change..no no no
 

THP

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oh and the side view of the spider really does suck...needs to be sat more towards the middle not the end of it
 

Kyronix

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Yeah..the publish came out on the 3rd....today is the 6th so technically it should still be running if it was activated the minute the publish hit TC1 yes?
I ended it last night to test the award portion of it, next city should be active right now though!
 

Larisa

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I ended it last night to test the award portion of it, next city should be active right now though!
Ah HA! LOL I knew I wasn't losing my mind, thanks!

LOVING The festival btw, ignore the nay sayers, it gives me a reason to do BOD's even more so then the revamped system...I am a happy crafter!

And tell the *Art Guy* I love the new boxes!
 

S_S

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sadly no collectable in the 2016 gifts...the boxes look new hues though...
Gifts are delivered inside 1 of 8 different gift boxes available in over 100 different hues, including 8 rare hues!
 

THP

Always Present
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yes boxes but was hoping for something like the olde bells were they named and diff colours...nevermind...collecting 1064 boxes will be a challenge...lolz ... not!!
 

FrejaSP

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I got a LBoD for 3 bows, Bow, Composite Bow and Yumi.

I got the small bods for Bow and Composite Bow and bribed them all up to frostwood, Exp, 20
Filled Bow and Yumi Small bod and added them to the large bod.

Looked and the Yumi BOD was not added but was gone from my backpack, the Bow Small was added just fine-
 

J. E. Tamer

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OOC:
Now that all the problems with banking points have been worked out...
Can we please get rid of the wasteful randomness for runic crafting and reforging? Let us pick which properties will go on the finished product. It would be okay if this option used more materials, e.g. fey wings or chaga mushrooms.
 

S_S

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Any way to know what city is hosting the Artisan Festival on tc1?

N/M, found the town crier in New Haven.
 
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Dot_Warner

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OOC:
Now that all the problems with banking points have been worked out...
Can we please get rid of the wasteful randomness for runic crafting and reforging? Let us pick which properties will go on the finished product. It would be okay if this option used more materials, e.g. fey wings or chaga mushrooms.
A reliable, non-wasteful way to craft 100% elementals would be warmly welcomed!
 

Lord Arm

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hey if u want to get rid of a lot of small bods, lets us turn in empty bods to the tree lol.

things I hope for in future.
- have option to price all bods in book same price, putting in price 300 to 500 times per book is no fun.
- bump up with runic and reforging. you can get 5 mods with imbueing, can get 5 to 6 mods with reforging. the new loot is so good 12, 14 or more mods if u count resists, I don't do bod like I use to. has effected economy. new loot has 255 durability so powder use way down.
- would love book for repair deeds with option to price all at once. some shards you cant find repair deeds.
just my opinions ty
 
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Lord Frodo

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Did a bunch of BODs on TC and alls I can say is turning in BODs is one HUGH pain is the ASS now.
Hand BOD to NPC, NP this is the same.
Set gump to NO and hit ok (2 clicks)
Scroll through a clean-up style menu This can be a lot of clicking depending on points.
Confirm reward selected, 1 click
Get new BOD, this is also the same.
There has to be a better way to do this without killing my wrist.
 
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