NEWS [UO.Com] Updated Publish 81 on TC1

[Revan123]

You may want to start your statement off with something other than this. I would really love to know what RPG MMO you played 15 years ago that makes this a true statement. To my understanding didn't UO start this ball rolling and everybody else jumped on the bandwagon later on. If you are not talking MMOs then you may want to step back in time even more to say 1981-82, Ultima 1981 and Wizardy 1982.

What other RPG MMO I played 15 years ago? lol What the hell are you talking about? I don't understand what point you're trying to make, and I think you completely missed MY point. Picus of Napa was making the point that walls, teleport, and fields are reasonable to have, because they have "normally been the way of RPG games." :

It's totally reasonable that a mage could/would have stuff like walls, teleport and various fields as this has normally been the way of RPG games. Mages have eval just as dexxers have tactics for thier damage bonus but no other class has something that enhances the damage burst the same way curse does. Every mage can do any special that any other class can, you have to roll the 90 tactics like everyone else so stop saying that you can't use them because, if so desired, you could.

Give dexxers a hit curse mod and I'd be happy, thought others would call for thier mom's.

My response was that fields, walls, and teleports have not been the way of RPG games. I might not have specified, but I was talking about *MMO's*. And not just MMO's 15 years ago, because there weren't any other MMO's 15 years ago. I was talking about MMO's since Ultima Online. No other game (MMO) has had included the ability for mages to do the things that they can do in Ultima Online (Darkfall was maybe the closest). I was not talking about whether fields, walls, and teleports are overpowered in Non-MMO's, because NO ONE CARES about the balance in Non-MMO's. My point was, that regardless of whether those spells are typical of RPG games, that has nothing to do with the *Balance* of the game. Ultima Online is a game where balance is very important, and Curse, is no more useful than the ability to teleport or summon fields. It's much harder for a mage to kill any template 1v1, because all any other templates have to do is run. Every time a mage has to stop to cast a spell (which is every time they cast one), that's time that their opponent is going to spend running. Escaping a mage or mages is FAR easier than escaping any other template. Ask ANY solid Dexxer/Thrower/Stealther. Mages have either a heal-stone or pots while running, and very little offensive capability; where as other templates usually have pots AND something else like (confidence, bandages, etc), along with some offensive abilities on the fly (moving shot, death strike, nerve strike, etc). With Curse, mages actually *have a chance*. Curse actually balances the game more than it unbalances it. Like I said, look at a mages offensive capability without it? It's horrific. If you think Curse is overpowered, it's because you don't understand Ultima Online, and you don't know when to START RUNNING. <--

 

[chise2]

I don't understand why they didn't just give nonmed armor an imbuing bonus, like they did two-handers, and call it a day.

Leather = Medable / no stam protection / 500 imbue cap
Studded = Nonmed / light stam protection / 550 imbue cap
Metal = Nonmed / full stam protection / 525 imbue cap

Then dexers all end up wearing nonmed, like we want, but... nobody is going over their LMC cap, the Mage Armor property doesn't have to change the category of the stuff it's on just to keep mages from being OP, the devs don't have to add a new item to scrub Mage Armor off dexer gear, nobody has to do any new math based on how many pieces of what gear they're wearing, so on and so forth.

Snap. Done. Takes fifteen minutes to code and 30 seconds to explain.

Like someone give me a design goal, even a fake design goal, that is better served by adding "inherent LMC" instead of just kicking up the imbue caps.

While I agree this might have been simpler personally I am rather glad they went with the lmc thing. Yeah it might make a little less sense but it is still useful for those of us who donlt max out our suits. I mean for me at least giving me some extra imbue points is completely useless I am sure it is for some others as well. Now if they wanted to let nonmed armor have 6 properties then maybe it would work. But that could lead to more balance problems. As for the mage armor thing the more I think about it the more I think they should just let the mage armor have both the stamina and lmc benefits or at least let us test it. I dontl really care if they let the blacksmith armors have it because an extra 5% lmc no big deal. Its the 15% lmc that has me more worried. But with the cost it would take to imbue mage armor on 5 pieces then the fact that you probably have to drop another mod on your suit that would normally be there like lrc for instance. It might balance it all out.

But yeah I hear what you are saying. I donlt think the inherant lmc thing is that hard to understand though. My only thing is a wish it showed on the armor itself but maybe in a different color or something or maybe actually say something like inherant lmc 3%. It does show on the char status sheet though at least in EC. When I have a full plate suit on it showed me with 5 lmc when I have studded on it showed me with 15 lmc.

 

[chise2]

Am i alone when i say i have no interest in refinements at all?

The whole system looks so confusing and complicated i honestly have no interest in testing or even using when it goes live.

I had some interest in the raising resist thing. That could have some use in pvm for instance fighting certain monsters. But then when we actually saw details and people like Tina Small began testing it. We saw it is actually a complicated jumbled mess right now.. However they did say that they are going to be streamlining and simplifying it. So I am crossing my fingers on that. Even if I still think refinements need to be postponed to another publish.

 

[SpellBreaker]

While an intresting idea, I think this is a very round-about way of getting more mana, through essentailly adding more SSI (but to armors).

• More SSI > Less Dex/Stamina Needed > Shuffle Suit Around > Shuffle Stats Around > More Mana

versus the proposed approach, which is more direct:

• Free LMC = More Mana

Aloha BG,

Thanks for your feedback and yes you nailed it and clearly understood what I was thinking. Lowering swing speed on weapons so we can shuffle Dex and SSI to expand the mana pool.

I could be wrong but I think the idea behind the LMC cap increase was to not make all armor medable instead increase the cap so melee folks could use more mana skills/spells.

Currently, a 2 second weapons at 10 dex + 40 ssi can give you 1.25 swing and a ton of mana to play with. You could explore lots of options for a crazy templet. I'm not a big fan of upping the property value of crafted items. In my opinion there are not to many artifacts that excite me since we can craft such amazing armor. The one's I still like are the ones we cant craft. We have 3 real Glad's collars and we only use 1...... In my opinion I can actually craft a better suit with out it.


@ Goldberg-Chessy
Sorry I was not more clear thanks for your feedback.


Truth is guys you play pvp much more then me I'm sure of it. On Baja 50% of my time went to crafting 40% pvm and 10% to pvp. Now a days im on Siege 80% of the time and the rest on Baja. After this patch goes though I will return to Baja.

Anyhow thanks for your feedback.


Spell Breaker

 

[Lord Frodo]

But yeah I hear what you are saying. I donlt think the inherant lmc thing is that hard to understand though. My only thing is a wish it showed on the armor itself but maybe in a different color or something or maybe actually say something like inherant lmc 3%. It does show on the char status sheet though at least in EC. When I have a full plate suit on it showed me with 5 lmc when I have studded on it showed me with 15 lmc.

And with the new Char Stat on TC for the CC and as the Devs have already stated this will go to Prodo Shards too.

 

[Picus at the office]

Long speach

The RPG's I was talking about are actual RPG games with dice and paper and other breathing people. Sadly I've never played any other video games of the similar type execpt UO(I did try some sony game for a week). In those old games such as D&D a mage class had what ever you could find in a book.

 

[Revan123]

1) "This coming from someone who has a thrower and 4 mages"
Spoony's own quote from this very thread. And he did quite obviously only voice his displeasure over the nerf when it was changed to also apply to mages.

2) Log onto Atl with your mage and fight any one of my warrior classes.
During the entire course of the fight you will not cast more then maybe 8 different spells.
Please spare me your 64 spell nonsense lol.
90% of so-called good mages don't even cast 8 spells. They cast curse, explo then spam fs. Maybe a small spell to try and finish. If they even have to cast heal or cure more then once they offscreen and rant that your temp is overpowered lol.
Ohh, my bad. Most of them also cast invis and protection lol. That's 8 total on a pure mage. What % of your 64 spells is that? Deal with it or come to Atl and prove me wrong.

3) Nice job showing how biased you are by actually trying to state that Curse is not overpowered at all.
I guess Throwers are not over powered at all either?
Nothing is over powered?

1) I'm not Spoony. But if you're going to accuse anyone of being bias, you'll need a little more evidence than the point at which they started posting.
2) You're kidding right? lol. 90% of the so-called good mages cast invis and protection?... That's why they're "so-called" and not actually good. I'll name all of my macros:
Explosion, Mind Blast, Energy Bolt, Flame Strike, Meteor Swarm/Nether Cyclone, Weaken, Feeblemind, Magic Arrow, Fireball, Harm, Lightning, Poison, Curse, Spell Plague/Corpse Skin, Paralyze, Bless, Cure, Arch Cure, Greater Heal, Cleansing Winds/SpiritSpeak, Resurrection, Invisibility, Mass Dispel, Purge/Evil omen, Teleport, Wall of Stone, Energy Field, Paralyze Field, Poison Field, Dispel Field, Mana Vampire, Spell Trigger/Pain Spike, Sleep/Poison Strike, Mass Sleep/Strangle, Revenant/Animated Weapon, Rising Colossus/EnergyVortex, Protection, Magic Reflection, Dismount, Remount, Bola, Mount Ethy, Heal Stone/Heal Pots, Cure Pots, Refresh Pots, Box, Enchanted Apple, Conflag, Equip Last Weapon, Earthquake/Wither, Last Target, Target Self, Erase Target Que, Switch to Wand, Use G-heal on Wand, and Class Specific Mage Template Macros -> Mirror Image, Animal Form, Gift of Renewal, Attunement, Arcane Empowerment, Wildfire.
That's at least 55 (40 spells) excluding the class specific ones, and there's a few more I won't bother to type. I don't set macros that I don't use actively. And if all I cast is: Curse-Explosion-Flame Strike-Flame Strike, It's because you're probably a noob and that's all I need to cast. Sorry
3) Stating that Curse is not overpowered does not alone, make one bias.

Are you trying to troll me? lol. I can't tell if your points are sincere and you just don't understand Ultima Online, or if you are just trying to troll.

 

[Barry Gibb]

I don't understand why they didn't just give nonmed armor an imbuing bonus, like they did two-handers, and call it a day.

Increasing the total imbuing intensity may not go as far as you think.

Most of the property weights on armor have an imbuing intensity of 1.0, which means at max intensity they occupy 100 of the 500 total ponts for an exceptioinal piece. They occupy one of five property counts as well. They are the ideal imbuing property and do not "spill over" and affect the intensity of other properties. The only armor properties that have an imbuing intensity greater than 1.0 are (reference http://uo2.stratics.com/items/magic-effects-table):

Property Nam (Imbuing Points @ Max) [Property @ Max]
Lower Mana Cost (110) [= LMC 8]
Mage Armor (140) [= Mage Armor]
Hit Point Increase (110) [= HPI 5]
Mana Increase (110) [= MI 8]
Stamina Increase (110) [= SI 8]
The total intensity of these properties on one item is 580 points. A piece of armor similar to this would lack any substantial contribution to your resists.

Mage Armor can be avoided by using any of the medable armor types (cloth, leather, leaf). It is unwise to imbue Mage Armor to an non-medable piece, if you are concered with getting the most intensity out of the armor and still be able to meditate. it is much more effecient to use a naturally medable armor.

The remaining properties can be brought below 100 imbuing points by decreasing the intensity of each property by one. LMC, MI, and SI of 7 each require 96 imbuing points, where as an HPI of 4 needs 86 (this decrease has the added benefit of not requiring any special ingredients). This insignificant loss can be compensated by a non-armor item (e.g. a totem) or incorporating an artifact into the suit.

There is little benefit raising the imbuing intensity of armor. The total property count AND the total intensity weight would have to be raised to have a meaningful effect. This would be a drastic, imbalancing and unwise change. Weapons have many properties with >1.0 imbuing intensity, so an increase in total weight has a much greater effect. I hope this helps clear things up.

Stayin Alive,

BG

 

[SpellBreaker]

And with the new Char Stat on TC for the CC and as the Devs have already stated this will go to Prodo Shards too.

I'm totally enjoying the new character stat stuff on TC. Someone commented that it was kinda big? I was thinking if it was the same width as pub 80 and make it taller, then put all the new stat stuff on the lower half we could push the character stat menu to the bottom of our game window making the new stuff off screen. Not sure if that makes sense.

Spell Breaker

 

[Revan123]

The RPG's I was talking about are actual RPG games with dice and paper and other breathing people. Sadly I've never played any other video games of the similar type execpt UO(I did try some sony game for a week). In those old games such as D&D a mage class had what ever you could find in a book.

That's cool. But the argument was about balance in Ultima Online.

 

[SpellBreaker]

I'll name all of my macros:
Explosion, Mind Blast, Energy Bolt, Flame Strike, Meteor Swarm/Nether Cyclone, Weaken, Feeblemind, Magic Arrow, Fireball, Harm, Lightning, Poison, Curse, Spell Plague/Corpse Skin, Paralyze, Bless, Cure, Arch Cure, Greater Heal, Cleansing Winds/SpiritSpeak, Resurrection, Invisibility, Mass Dispel, Purge/Evil omen, Teleport, Wall of Stone, Energy Field, Paralyze Field, Poison Field, Dispel Field, Mana Vampire, Spell Trigger/Pain Spike, Sleep/Poison Strike, Mass Sleep/Strangle, Revenant/Animated Weapon, Rising Colossus/EnergyVortex, Protection, Magic Reflection, Dismount, Remount, Bola, Mount Ethy, Heal Stone/Heal Pots, Cure Pots, Refresh Pots, Box, Enchanted Apple, Conflag, Equip Last Weapon, Earthquake/Wither, Last Target, Target Self, Erase Target Que, Switch to Wand, Use G-heal on Wand, and Class Specific Mage Template Macros -> Mirror Image, Animal Form, Gift of Renewal, Attunement, Arcane Empowerment, Wildfire.
That's at least 55 (40 spells) excluding the class specific ones, and there's a few more I won't bother to type.

Dang! your a machine! I love it!

Thanks for sharing your skills, I seen Twista on Baja use crazy combos with the skills you listed and man that guy is insane good.



Spell Breaker

 

[Barry Gibb]

Please explain to me in detail how his scenario does not equal less ssi, no med, and no lmc bonus?

I choose not to go into more detail on his idea. His idea is inventive, but I think the current proposal is a smipler, more direct approach to achive more mana. I hope he keeps trying out ideas, he will eventually hit a homerun.

Stayin Alive,

BG

 

[Revan123]

Dang! your a machine! I love it!

Thanks for sharing your skills, I seen Twista on Baja use crazy combos with the skills you listed and man that guy is insane good.



Spell Breaker

You might be surprised to find that this is pretty typical. I may have slightly more than most mages, but most mages at least have 30-40.

 

[SpellBreaker]

I choose not to go into more detail on his idea. His idea is inventive, but I think the current proposal is a smipler, more direct approach to achive more mana. I hope he keeps trying out ideas, he will eventually hit a homerun.

Stayin Alive,

BG

I could be wrong but Pub 81 has only cracked the door opened for more weapon options in my opinion. The balanced two handed things is OK but we loose parry. In my opinion that is a big negative. And most of the weapons are still to slow which means you have pump up stamina thus leaving little room for mana.

The submitted idea was to expand our arson of usable weapons and at the same time include a solution for armor. I'm working on a Home Run over here (thanks for the encouragement BG)


Spell Breaker

 

[chise2]

I could be wrong but Pub 81 has only cracked the door opened for more weapon options in my opinion. The balanced two handed things is OK but we loose parry. In my opinion that is a big negative. And most of the weapons are still to slow which means you have a have a gang of stamina leaving little room for mana.

The submitted idea was to expand our arson of usable weapons and at the same time include a solution for armor. I'm working on a Home Run over here (thanks for the encouragement BG)


Spell Breaker

I think for the most part twohanded weapons are there they just need to get rid of the parry penalty. And maybe either raise the speed of some of them or increase the damage. But even right now there are some of us that have found several weapons we want to try out. I have a list of 8 for me for instance. But for the most part other then a few tweaks I am happy with weapons right now.

 

[Lord Frodo]

I'm totally enjoying the new character stat stuff on TC. Someone commented that it was kinda big? I was thinking if it was the same width as pub 80 and make it taller, then put all the new stat stuff on the lower half we could push the character stat menu to the bottom of our game window making the new stuff off screen. Not sure if that makes sense.

Spell Breaker

LOL That was me about the size. I have been playing with it trying to get it smaller and still have all the stuff on it.

 

[SpellBreaker]

Melee damage in pvp is capped at 35 right? So really if ALL weapons could hit the 1.25 mark they would still only do 35 damage in pvp. Making the native swing speed of a weapon lower so folks could hit the 1.25 mark would open the door new things. We would see new weapons skins in players hands and they could take advantage of different specials. I like the idea of different weapon skins.

What do you guys think about attaining 1.25 swing speed @ 80 dex + 30 ssi? (keeping the 35 damage cap for pvp)
We would have more mana and playing a human would be nice again


Just wanted to share that with you guys,
Spell Breaker

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

I choose not to go into more detail on his idea. His idea is inventive, but I think the current proposal is a smipler, more direct approach to achive more mana. I hope he keeps trying out ideas, he will eventually hit a homerun.

Stayin Alive,

BG

No offense but there is no detail to go into.

His idea as it pertains to warriors is to force them into non med, with lower swing speed and no lmc bonus.

All in the name of juggling stats to get more mana? Its a poorly thought out and ridiculous idea that came from someone who in his own words does not pvp.

I respect your opinion a lot Barry and that is why I was shocked when you ignored the above and called it "interesting"

 

[chise2]

Increasing the total imbuing intensity may not go as far as you think.

Most of the property weights on armor have an imbuing intensity of 1.0, which means at max intensity they occupy 100 of the 500 total ponts for an exceptioinal piece. They occupy one of five property counts as well. They are the ideal imbuing property and do not "spill over" and affect the intensity of other properties. The only armor properties that have an imbuing intensity greater than 1.0 are (reference http://uo2.stratics.com/items/magic-effects-table):

Property Nam (Imbuing Points @ Max) [Property @ Max]
Lower Mana Cost (110) [= LMC 8]
Mage Armor (140) [= Mage Armor]
Hit Point Increase (110) [= HPI 5]
Mana Increase (110) [= MI 8]
Stamina Increase (110) [= SI 8]
The total intensity of these properties on one item is 580 points. A piece of armor similar to this would lack any substantial contribution to your resists.

Mage Armor can be avoided by using any of the medable armor types (cloth, leather, leaf). It is unwise to imbue Mage Armor to an non-medable piece, if you are concered with getting the most intensity out of the armor and still be able to meditate. it is much more effecient to use a naturally medable armor.

The remaining properties can be brought below 100 imbuing points by decreasing the intensity of each property by one. LMC, MI, and SI of 7 each require 96 imbuing points, where as an HPI of 4 needs 86 (this decrease has the added benefit of not requiring any special ingredients). This insignificant loss can be compensated by a non-armor item (e.g. a totem) or incorporating an artifact into the suit.

There is little benefit raising the imbuing intensity of armor. The total property count AND the total intensity weight would have to be raised to have a meaningful effect. This would be a drastic, imbalancing and unwise change. Weapons have many properties with >1.0 imbuing intensity, so an increase in total weight has a much greater effect. I hope this helps clear things up.

Stayin Alive,

BG

Thanks for this I think this is a very good explanation of why simply raising the imbue caps on armor isn;t really as good as one might think at first.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

1) I'm not Spoony. But if you're going to accuse anyone of being bias, you'll need a little more evidence than the point at which they started posting.
2) You're kidding right? lol. 90% of the so-called good mages cast invis and protection?... That's why they're "so-called" and not actually good. I'll name all of my macros:
Explosion, Mind Blast, Energy Bolt, Flame Strike, Meteor Swarm/Nether Cyclone, Weaken, Feeblemind, Magic Arrow, Fireball, Harm, Lightning, Poison, Curse, Spell Plague/Corpse Skin, Paralyze, Bless, Cure, Arch Cure, Greater Heal, Cleansing Winds/SpiritSpeak, Resurrection, Invisibility, Mass Dispel, Purge/Evil omen, Teleport, Wall of Stone, Energy Field, Paralyze Field, Poison Field, Dispel Field, Mana Vampire, Spell Trigger/Pain Spike, Sleep/Poison Strike, Mass Sleep/Strangle, Revenant/Animated Weapon, Rising Colossus/EnergyVortex, Protection, Magic Reflection, Dismount, Remount, Bola, Mount Ethy, Heal Stone/Heal Pots, Cure Pots, Refresh Pots, Box, Enchanted Apple, Conflag, Equip Last Weapon, Earthquake/Wither, Last Target, Target Self, Erase Target Que, Switch to Wand, Use G-heal on Wand, and Class Specific Mage Template Macros -> Mirror Image, Animal Form, Gift of Renewal, Attunement, Arcane Empowerment, Wildfire.
That's at least 55 (40 spells) excluding the class specific ones, and there's a few more I won't bother to type. I don't set macros that I don't use actively. And if all I cast is: Curse-Explosion-Flame Strike-Flame Strike, It's because you're probably a noob and that's all I need to cast. Sorry
3) Stating that Curse is not overpowered does not alone, make one bias.

Are you trying to troll me? lol. I can't tell if your points are sincere and you just don't understand Ultima Online, or if you are just trying to troll.

You can list 550 macros that you have set on your character my friend
Having them set and actually using them correctly in a fight are 2 very different things.

I am telling you that if you were to fight myself or any other decent warrior today you would be using about 8 of those for the duration of the fight so please spare me your key mashing superiority.

 

[Picus at the office]

Wait a second, does Barry work for the team as a translator?

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

He plays a blue thrower 99% of the time named Preacher. He is also known as Captain Trips he's pretty bad to be honest all he does is spam armor igorne & Mortal and if he fails to kill you he runs until he has full mana.

That's funny coming from someone who dies or off screens to me most of the time

You get an A for consistency though as every time I chase or kill you, you do whine about my template and accuse me of spamming.
Which is kinda funny considering the 2 Throwing weapons of choice on my Thrower that you mentioned have a total of 5 specials and I use all five when fighting you bud. Mortal/Para/Dismount/Ignore/Moving Shot. I also toss Shurikens and Conflags at you.

I guess using 100% of every one of your weapons specials moves is spamming?

I am curious though how you suggest a Thrower should fight you without 'spamming' so much lol?

Before Throwing I chased you all over the shard on my Archer or my Ninja/Swordsman.

Bottom line bro is that you have serious template issues and always have. You whine about any warrior template that kills you.
And all you have ever been able to say after dying is "go get a mage"
You should honestly try to find a mage only free shard somewhere bro cuz you don't cut it against warriors.

 

[Barry Gibb]

I could be wrong but Pub 81 has only cracked the door opened for more weapon options in my opinion. The balanced two handed things is OK but we loose parry. In my opinion that is a big negative.

I concur, this publish will make more weapons desireable.

The loss of Parry on Balanced 2H weapons is a steep trade-off. I wrote up some notes on this in an earlier thread regarding thsi publish (post-2235428). The current trade-off is too severe, since it negates two integral warrior skills. Logrus pointed out that Balanced 2H weapons without a trade-off would be too strong (#post-2235681). I like the idea of treating them as 1H weapons. This would be a fair comprimise. There is still room for improvement with the Balanced 2H weapon trade-off. I don't have any alternatives to present.

Balanced Bows do not have a trade-off, but you cannot parry with Archery, so a comparison to them is moot. The inability to parry with Archery is traded against having a ranged attack.

Stayin Alive,

BG

 

[Barry Gibb]

Wait a second, does Barry work for the team as a translator?

No. I'm just a player/fan with some free time on my hands.

Stayin Alive,

BG

 

[Cetric]

He plays a blue thrower 99% of the time named Preacher. He is also known as Captain Trips he's pretty bad to be honest all he does is spam armor igorne & Mortal and if he fails to kill you he runs until he has full mana.

OH-EM-GEE


I thought this goldberg guy was better than that, then you come and tell me he is preacher and captain trips.... lol

oh my god *epic face palm*

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

No. I'm just a player/fan with some free time on my hands.

Stayin Alive,

BG

Obviously not enough time to explain how Breakers "interesting" proposal is nothing more then a nerf that will slow down inherent ssi.

How again does "lowering the swing speed on all weapons" make them faster by juggling the same amount of stats to get more mana?

Ohh ya, and we are also all gonna make those slower warriors not able to regen mana and take away the lmc buff on the non-med armor they will have to wear for their mysterious "stamina protection" ??

This stamina protection though in the end will make weapons faster? Rofl

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

OH-EM-GEE


I thought this goldberg guy was better than that, then you come and tell me he is preacher and captain trips.... lol

oh my god *epic face palm*

You girls like tossing around in game names on the forums for dramatic effect? That's too funny. Someone must not be good because you talk trash about them on the boards lol

Who are your scary pvpers on Atlantic bud? You seem to have forgotten to mention that both times

 

[Cetric]

You girls like tossing around in game names on the forums for dramatic effect? That's too funny. Someone must not be good because you talk trash about them on the boards lol

Who are your scary pvpers on Atlantic bud? You seem to have forgotten to mention that both times

Currently I have Xavier Kane (scribe mage), Mel Gibson (scribe mage), War Machine (thrower), Xuv'Yerkan (archer) and i just tore apart my necro nox weaver mage to make something else.

Question answered? I'll happily fight you in the arena on any of the first three chars, the archer is currently under re-development. Just say the word and tell me how to get a hold of you.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

Currently I have Xavier Kane (scribe mage), Mel Gibson (scribe mage), War Machine (thrower), Xuv'Yerkan (archer) and i just tore apart my necro nox weaver mage to make something else.

Question answered? I'll happily fight you in the arena on any of the first three chars, the archer is currently under re-development. Just say the word and tell me how to get a hold of you.

Aha

I only know Xavier and Machine and they are both very good. But I will fight you anytime you like

 

[Cetric]

Aha

I only know Xavier and Machine and they are both very good. But I will fight you anytime you like

My thrower is a monster, i almost feel bad playing him. Can't wait for THIS PUBLISH!!!. My connection has been horrible so I have been sticking to dexers a little more than i'm used to, especially when i'm playing solo. But yea, got ur pm, just hit me up.

 

[Lore Denin (GL)]

Melee damage in pvp is capped at 35 right? So really if ALL weapons could hit the 1.25 mark they would still only do 35 damage in pvp. Making the native swing speed of a weapon lower so folks could hit the 1.25 mark would open the door new things. We would see new weapons skins in players hands and they could take advantage of different specials. I like the idea of different weapon skins.

What do you guys think about attaining 1.25 swing speed @ 80 dex + 30 ssi? (keeping the 35 damage cap for pvp)
We would have more mana and playing a human would be nice again


Just wanted to share that with you guys,
Spell Breaker

I am not sure how often you pvp but this is not accurate. There is no cap to damage in melee in pvp only a cap to the Armor ignore special (and the Bushido special)

I also strongly disagree wtih your the idea of lower weapon speeds as it will nullify the usefulness of any of the faster weapons... For example, I use primarily a War Fork and Kryss in pvp. Relatively fast weapons that allow me to forgo some stamina, and ssi to allow a larger mana pool as you suggested... however there is a trade off in damage because the weapons I use are natually fast so I have to invest more in damage increase, and skills like tactics and anatomy...

Lower weapon speeds would allow me to use large weapons, invest my skill points elsewhere and add in other modifications then damage increase to achieve similiar results. The specials I use with my weapons I could find easily on larger damaging versions and would negate any use of fast, light weapons. As it stands with now, ssi is widely available on weapons, shields, rings, bracelets, some artiffacts and a few cloak/wing slots (where in the past it was extremely rare). This has already vastly improved the ability to incorporate slower, heavier damaging weapons into templates.

I think that lowering weapon speeds in general would reduce the benefit of most fast, light weapons and rather then increasing diversity of useful weapons, most people will just use heavy weapons because they will act like light weapons with larger damage.

Of course whenever someone mentions pvp, they will get ripped as being a terrible pvper and such. I am rarely active in pvp these days so perhaps I will have the benefit of no one remembering who I am.

-Lore's Player

 

[Picus at the office]

Throwers are monsters, I like playing my guy solo against greater odds. It's stunning the damage you can do if you time stuff and work it well.

 

[Barry Gibb]

How again does "lowering the swing speed on all weapons" make them faster by juggling the same amount of stats to get more mana?

His idea is to make all weapons faster. "Lowering" in this instance means going from 4.0s to 3.0s. You can also consider this an increase in the speed, since the weapons get faster. This was clear to me, when he stated this:

Warriors wont need a ton of stamina anymore

Faster weapons do not require as much stamina a slower weapons to attain the same swing speed.

His approach is an inventive way of getting to the same result as the current proposal, more mana. I prefer the current proposal becuase it is more direct.

Stayin Alive,

BG

 

[Gheed]

I had some interest in the raising resist thing. That could have some use in pvm for instance fighting certain monsters. But then when we actually saw details and people like Tina Small began testing it. We saw it is actually a complicated jumbled mess right now.. However they did say that they are going to be streamlining and simplifying it. So I am crossing my fingers on that. Even if I still think refinements need to be postponed to another publish.

I read Bleak's comment that DCI overcapping will be addressed, possibly meaning a revamp to refinement. I wanted to take the time to go into more detail concerning a nice little advantage to refining and resist spiking in the current proposal. I hope it makes it into the new system with a few tweaks:

First here is the hide suit I created on TC for my elf. I built it to fight unbound energy vortexes. This is a good mob for this example. Unbound EVs do not cast and hit for 100% energy damage. So I am only concerned about energy resist on my suit.

I use refining to roll a modify for only one resist cap: Since I was using hide, the first resist affected was energy. In the end I have 5 hide pieces, each raising energy resist cap by 1% and lowering DCI by 2% for a grand total of +5% to my energy resist cap and -10% to to my DCI cap:

To offset the MAX DCI penalty, I crafted a plate helm and refined it to lower 4 resists and add back to my MAX DCI pool. Plate armor modifies energy resist last so the result was -1% to all resists but energy and +8% to MAX DCI:

Equip the full suit and I have cradfted a set of armor spiked in energy resist 5% with minimal impact on the other resists (which I dont care about anyway). I also only lose 2% MAX DCI on my melee. I get the full benefit of the hide LMC (15% over cap) plus have one piece of plate in the mix for slightly better stamina damage protection:

This is a pretty significant bonus. Know your enemy well and you can harden your armor against its primary damage type. Even with casting mobs you sacrifice very little in the other resists. The only issue with the current system is that you can't spike all resists. There is no armor that modifies poison first or cold last. Only elves can spike energy resists and gargoyles are a total loss. I was hoping the tinkering changes would give them a little boost with this.

 

[Barry Gibb]

I think that lowering weapon speeds in general would reduce the benefit of most fast, light weapons and rather then increasing diversity of useful weapons, most people will just use heavy weapons because they will act like light weapons with larger damage.

Well Stated. It is a delicate balancing act.

Stayin Alive,

BG

 

[Barry Gibb]

First here is the hide suit I created on TC for my elf. I built it to fight unbound energy vortexes.

Thank you for the write-up. How well did it work against the EV?

Stayin Alive,

BG

 

[chise2]

I read Bleak's comment that DCI overcapping will be addressed, possibly meaning a revamp to refinement. I wanted to take the time to go into more detail concerning a nice little advantage to refining and resist spiking in the current proposal. I hope it makes it into the new system with a few tweaks:

First here is the hide suit I created on TC for my elf. I built it to fight unbound energy vortexes. This is a good mob for this example. Unbound EVs do not cast and hit for 100% energy damage. So I am only concerned about energy resist on my suit.

I use refining to roll a modify for only one resist cap: Since I was using hide, the first resist affected was energy. In the end I have 5 hide pieces, each raising energy resist cap by 1% and lowering DCI by 2% for a grand total of +5% to my energy resist cap and -10% to to my DCI cap:

To offset the MAX DCI penalty, I crafted a plate helm and refined it to lower 4 resists and add back to my MAX DCI pool. Plate armor modifies energy resist last so the result was -1% to all resists but energy and +8% to MAX DCI:

Equip the full suit and I have cradfted a set of armor spiked in energy resist 5% with minimal impact on the other resists (which I dont care about anyway). I also only lose 2% MAX DCI on my melee. I get the full benefit of the hide LMC (15% over cap) plus have one piece of plate in the mix for slightly better stamina damage protection:

This is a pretty significant bonus. Know your enemy well and you can harden your armor against its primary damage type. Even with casting mobs you sacrifice very little in the other resists. The only issue with the current system is that you can't spike all resists. There is no armor that modifies poison first or cold last. Only elves can spike energy resists and gargoyles are a total loss. I was hoping the tinkering changes would give them a little boost with this.

Yeah there needs to be some changes to how the resists raise. Personally I am hoping that they change it so that you can raise or lower any resist on any armor type. If they can;t do that though ideally we do need an armor that will raise poison first. I am also hoping they will take the randomness out of it and take outsome of the different levels of refinements. I think there should just be 5 levels with the 1st level raising or lowering one resist then go up from there. I am looking forward to the changes in dci/hld as well and I am guessing you are right that will mean another change with refining. I am suspecting the 95% cap will go away but we will see. Your idea of mixing one piece with a raised dci cap to offset the loss in dci from the other pieces was a good idea too! Personally I donlt run max dci anyway so losing lets say 10 dci for an extra 5 resist in one category is a fine tradeoff for me. But for many that is good advice!

 

[Gheed]

Thank you for the write-up. How well did it work against the EV?

Stayin Alive,

BG

Survivability wise it was very noticable. I only built the suit to test the extra energy resist and fiddle around with luck/stamina bonus' on horned runics. I could have customized it quite a bit differently (and my skill set) for more damage. Since evs are such a high resist mega hp mob, I always have a bard in tow to discord and give some awesome spell song buffs. I did manage to make a 100% poison damage longsword, which is slightly their weakest resist, and imbued it with all the proper mods. With the EV in discord, I took @ 5-7 points damage (with no armor on my swampy) and chained, almost endlessly, 24/48 mana cost ignores for @210 points/swing at capped speed. Fights lasted just under 3 minutes.

 

[KLOMP]

Increasing the total imbuing intensity may not go as far as you think.

Frankly, I question whether nonmed armor needs ANYTHING beyond stamina protection in order to justify its existence, but it's clear the devs think so. In any case, I know exactly what takes what, having broken out the calculator before posting.

Studded leather and equivalents become effectively impossible to hit the cap on, at least for a dexer, meaning you can always push any combination of mods to the absolute max. You could say the same at 540, but at 550 the non-exceptional penalty on dungeon loot in this category is effectively erased, should the system ever hork up something with a nice clean property that can't normally be imbued. Call it 540 if you prefer.

Metal armor and equivalents can still easily bump up against the imbuing cap, since it's no coincidence that all those 110 weight properties are the best ones, but one will only need to cut a single point from something in order to fit. Hmm, actually, you might lower the bonus here to 515 so that they have to cut two points. That's enough that you might think about studded if max stamina protection isn't imperative for you.

Meanwhile plain old leather armor, if you were still trying to make a dexer suit out of it for some reason, would have to cut three points in order to stay within the normal 500 limit. The divide between stamina protection and meditation alone will keep dexers out of it and mages in it though, as intended.

Two or three points of various properties per piece is a meaningful but not overwhelming difference. It's the difference between wearing six imbued pieces or loading up on five and wearing an artifact. And if you think 15 and 40 points of imbuing weight respectively are a meaningless bonus, remember that they're almost exactly the same property weight as these 1% and 3% LMC bonuses.

"But the LMC can go over the cap now that we complained enough!"

Yeah I know, and it's potentially such a problem that it's resulted in the de facto elimination of the Mage Armor property. (That is to say, attaching devastating nerfs to it and supposedly inventing a widget to scrub it off of items it's already on.) Overall a very sloppy, hasty, ad hoc solution to a self-created problem. They didn't plan to break the 40 LMC cap when they first thought of inherent LMC, and it shows.

And Cetric, man, I know that by "people who don't maxmize their suits" you mean Siege. Just come out and say it.

 

[KLOMP]

Like basically I've just seen the following conversation go down over the last few weeks.

"Inherent LMC on nonmed armor, kids!"
"Meh, we can already imbue LMC."
"Okay... inherent LMC over the cap!"
"I dunno, mages might be OP."
"Oh... okay... so now Mage Armor removes all the new benefits."
"Dude but Mage Armor is on half the dexer artifacts."
"Uh... er... okay so we add an item that removes Mage Armor..."

And it's just like, god, at the second or third instance of having to rebalance your balance change maybe you should just think about adding inherent something else to nonmed armor. Imbuing points, or swampy-style damage reduction like Galen suggested, or whatever. Maybe nothing. Just ship with nothing but stamina reduction in place and see what happens for one publish cycle. I'm just waiting for them to say that last yellow bit out loud on the forum so that someone will dig up some dexer arties I've forgotten that are med without Mage Armor.

 

[Lore Denin (GL)]

Like basically I've just seen the following conversation go down over the last few weeks.

"Inherent LMC on nonmed armor, kids!"
"Meh, we can already imbue LMC."
"Okay... inherent LMC over the cap!"
"I dunno, mages might be OP."
"Oh... okay... so now Mage Armor removes all the new benefits."
"Dude but Mage Armor is on half the dexer artifacts."
"Uh... er... okay so we add an item that removes Mage Armor..."

And it's just like, god, at the second or third instance of having to rebalance your balance change maybe you should just think about adding inherent something else to nonmed armor. Imbuing points, or swampy-style damage reduction like Galen suggested, or whatever. Maybe nothing. Just ship with nothing but stamina reduction in place and see what happens for one publish cycle. I'm just waiting for them to say that last yellow bit out loud on the forum so that someone will dig up some dexer arties I've forgotten that are med without Mage Armor.

I have posted a much more complicated but in my opinion more balanced over-all solution to the issue which I am working on a second draft after recieving some feedback but if you want a really fast easy fix how is this...

Make the mage armor property tied to Med skill. If the wearer has 21 or more medition thus taking advantage of the items Mage Armor Property, cancel out the armor's inherent bonus's to stamina and LMC. [I have put it at 21 to prevent the human jack of all trades from interfering with the property - something that would inadvertantly nerf humans and has been overlooked before].

Basically if someone is taking advantage of the mage armor property, they are not able to take advantage of the non-med aspects and vice versa.... This keeps the arty's with mage armor property useful to dexxers and also to mages that need to use med. The only type of character this might effect would be a med dexxer which I happen to play at times but with the proposed changes to stamina loss moving from Med to Focus is probably a smart choice.

Here is my more complex post on the issue but if you have any feedback to over before I post my final draft, please let me know.... even if you think its just dumb, I am okay with that too.

-Lore's Player

 

[chise2]

Frankly, I question whether nonmed armor needs ANYTHING beyond stamina protection in order to justify its existence, but it's clear the devs think so. In any case, I know exactly what takes what, having broken out the calculator before posting.

Studded leather and equivalents become effectively impossible to hit the cap on, at least for a dexer, meaning you can always push any combination of mods to the absolute max. You could say the same at 540, but at 550 the non-exceptional penalty on dungeon loot in this category is effectively erased, should the system ever hork up something with a nice clean property that can't normally be imbued. Call it 540 if you prefer.

Metal armor and equivalents can still easily bump up against the imbuing cap, since it's no coincidence that all those 110 weight properties are the best ones, but one will only need to cut a single point from something in order to fit. Hmm, actually, you might lower the bonus here to 515 so that they have to cut two points. That's enough that you might think about studded if max stamina protection isn't imperative for you.

Meanwhile plain old leather armor, if you were still trying to make a dexer suit out of it for some reason, would have to cut three points in order to stay within the normal 500 limit. The divide between stamina protection and meditation alone will keep dexers out of it and mages in it though, as intended.

Two or three points of various properties per piece is a meaningful but not overwhelming difference. It's the difference between wearing six imbued pieces or loading up on five and wearing an artifact. And if you think 15 and 40 points of imbuing weight respectively are a meaningless bonus, remember that they're almost exactly the same property weight as these 1% and 3% LMC bonuses.

"But the LMC can go over the cap now that we complained enough!"

Yeah I know, and it's potentially such a problem that it's resulted in the de facto elimination of the Mage Armor property. (That is to say, attaching devastating nerfs to it and supposedly inventing a widget to scrub it off of items it's already on.) Overall a very sloppy, hasty, ad hoc solution to a self-created problem. They didn't plan to break the 40 LMC cap when they first thought of inherent LMC, and it shows.

And Cetric, man, I know that by "people who don't maxmize their suits" you mean Siege. Just come out and say it.

I think you mean me I dontl think Cetric said anything about not maximizing his suit. And there are people on regular shards not just Siege who chose to not max every property they can. Even if it was just Siege *which once again it is not* Siege does have quite a few players. I do agree though that it is causing problems with mage armor. I am of the opinion now though that they should just let mage armor keep all the benefits of regular nonmed armor since you do pay a big price for it.

Really I think they can't make everyone happy. If they were to increase the imbue weights of nonmed armor they would make some people happy but some others would find it useless. I really like the lmc bonus but obviously not everyone likes it. Some people in earlier threads were calling for them to just make all armor meddable balance resists and call it a day. But once again some people were unhappy with that idea too. I do think they are doing a bit too much to nonmed armors. I think stamina protection plus inherant lmc plus refinement is overkill. Another reason why I think that even if they manage to make refinement simple to do and easy to understand this publish that it should still be postponed and that meddable armors should be included.

 

[NuSair]

Since evs are such a high resist mega hp mob

One of the things I think the devs don't get is that by making all the newer mobs these 'uber resist' creatures is that they are essentially nerfing all the other specials and weapons without Armor Ignore out of existence.

 

[Lore Denin (GL)]

Yeah there needs to be some changes to how the resists raise. Personally I am hoping that they change it so that you can raise or lower any resist on any armor type. If they can;t do that though ideally we do need an armor that will raise poison first. I am also hoping they will take the randomness out of it and take outsome of the different levels of refinements. I think there should just be 5 levels with the 1st level raising or lowering one resist then go up from there. I am looking forward to the changes in dci/hld as well and I am guessing you are right that will mean another change with refining. I am suspecting the 95% cap will go away but we will see. Your idea of mixing one piece with a raised dci cap to offset the loss in dci from the other pieces was a good idea too! Personally I donlt run max dci anyway so losing lets say 10 dci for an extra 5 resist in one category is a fine tradeoff for me. But for many that is good advice!

Outstanding work. I think what you have done here really showcases the use and potential of refinement as it was created and intended.

What your post also points out is something that has concerned me for sometime and that is the disconnect between pvp and pvm and how that gap continues to widen. I don't have any pvp or pvm characters per se, just characters I play (no sampires or gimp pvp templates of the month). RP takes my characters where they need to go and that could be anywhere....

This is not to say my play-style is better or worse then those who enjoy pvp and focus on that or those who enjoy pvm or those who do both. What I am saying is that to do both with the same character is becoming more difficult and that you have to specialize in one or the other to remain effective. (I don't mind being less effective then a specialized character just not rendered completely ineffective).

However as the game has progressed my ability to function at both types of combat becomes less and less. Sometimes I will fight monsters and I honestly look feel like a complete newb. The changes to armor and the re-introduction of stamina mod as something you can't just keep auto maxed with ease (due to increase of stamina loss, change stamina leech to dimished returns, etc) would go in the direction of restoring some of that balance.

The problem I see here is curse...

The curse spell made into this thread as being over powered... I'm sure 90% of people were probably shaking their heads wondering why it was in this thread and what curse had to do with anything???

Now Imagine using refinement to boost your Fire max resist to help protect you against mages who use explosion and flame strike to deal large damage quickily.... that is a great plan... but then you hit the battle field and realize it was wasted because when you are pvping a mage, you are almost always under the curse spell which drops elemental resists to 60 -regardless of if you have 80 fire resist or 62.

There are both magical and consumable ways to combat curse - Mystics and Paladins can remove it with spells... though a Paladin will be hard pressed to keep up mana wise in a curse/remove curse battle since all their damage has to come via weapons and weapon specials which require more mana then other fighter classes. I can not confirm this but Mystics cleansing winds has been said to be to slow and can be repeatly disrupted in a mage curse/ remove curse scenerio. Non spell users can combat it with apples but are subject to a re-cast and struggle because of the apple timer (which I favor or the reverse occurs and curse becomes useless).

This makes curse a powerful spell but I think any pvp mage will also say its a very necessary one in order for a mage to compete damage wise. Something I completely agree with as well...

But all this adds to a problem where refinement would be a liability in pvp and useful in pvm and back to the problem of narrowing the gap between the two.

People will tell you there is no solution for this, that the gap between pvp and pvm is so wide that you need specialized characters for each, but I am not one of them. I think there are a ton of viable solutions but I am a skill over items person so tend to look at what skills exist and their intention. Resist Spells screams out as a way to reduce some of the effect curse has on resistences, while I see refinement as a way to further buffer the effects of resists spells while providing a reasonable handicap (Loss to Max DCI).

Resist spells helps anyone wanting to fight mages..... or so should... just make curse resistable like the poison spell (harder to resist since its a higher circle spell) and scale the reduction in resist cap in an eval vs. resist:

Eval: 120 vs REsist 0-20 [differential 100-120] = 60 [-10]
Eval: 120 vs Resist 20.1-40 [differential 80-99.9] = 61 [-9]
Eval: 120 vs Resist 40.1-60 [differential 60-45] = 62 [-8]
Eval 120 vs Resist 60.1-90 [differential 30-44.9] = 63 [-7]
Eval 120 vs Resist 90.1-110 [differential 10-19.9] = -64 [-6]
Eval 120 vs Resist 110.1-120 [differential 0-9.9] = 65 [-5]

Using the example above, lets say a character invests 120 skill points in Resist Spells to better combat spell casters and reduces the effects of curse to drop resists from 60 to 65. A reduction in curse's power but still signifigant enough to be deadly.

Lets add in refinement, the character has also refined his armor to give him a cap of 80 fire resist and has maxed out the resist to reach the cap. now he has 80 fire resist rather then the standard 70. Using the same numbers you could convert the amount of protection resists spells grants against curse at 120 as 50% (-10/2), and thus apply it to refinement , changing the original reduction of 20 at zero resist to 10, giving someone with 80 fire resist, a 70 under the curse spell at the sacrifice of 120 skill points in resist spells, and a lower Max DCI.

There would be no over capping as curse drop resists to a baseline of 60 and the effects would be directed at the actual fire resist of the character not the cap to prevent issues BG has pointed out arise from the DCI HLD scenerio's.

Like I said this is an issue that was mentioned but no one really explained how or why it arose... and this is only one of a 100 ways to balance the issue if you even think its an issue that requires balancing.... People on one side scream curse is over powered, people on the other side scream its needed... if the over powered people tell you its not enough and the underpowered people say its to much, you prob have found a decent balance between the two.... rarely are you going to get people on either side to say "perfect". Which I imagine is very difficult for Dev's reading these boards and getting a real feel for what is balanced, needs change and should stay the same. Thanks to the players that keep posting, and thanks to the Dev's who keep sorting through this in attempt to make it all work.

-Lore's Player

 

[Gheed]

One of the things I think the devs don't get is that by making all the newer mobs these 'uber resist' creatures is that they are essentially nerfing all the other specials and weapons without Armor Ignore out of existence.

I agree, I actually dont like to use armor ignore that much. My normal template uses 100% poison ornate axe on evs. I run a sampire and chain lightning strike instead though. With my current production setup I hit for 150ish after discord and corpse skin with 270ish crits. Since the new pub is going to nerf ornate axe slightly, I thought I'd try a different weapon out on TC. I wasn't even going to use a longsword originally. I was trying to cap SSI on a halberd and play around with whirlwind on 3 or 4 evs at once. Alas the reforging RNG wasnt kind in producing my 100% poison 35% SSI hally so I fell back to sword and shield.

Which brings me to another annoying point. With the new dungeon loot, luck really makes a difference in loot quality. So if you are serious about quality drops, you pretty much have to use honor and perfection for the luck bonus. Twist my arm to use a sampire s'more wont ya? I'd like to see perfection applied to any template using honor.

 

[KLOMP]

Yeah I think I mixed up Cetric and Chise, my bad.

I have posted a much more complicated but in my opinion more balanced over-all solution to the issue which I am working on a second draft after recieving some feedback but if you want a really fast easy fix how is this...

Your idea functions, but it is by necessity a kludgy solution to a problem that need not exist. It's my general opinion that one should have a set of design goals in mind, and then proceed toward those goals in as few steps and as self-explanatory a way as is possible. If inherent LMC causes this much need for special conditionals, or new items, or other intermediary steps, then that's just the game itself telling you that inherent LMC is probably a bad idea that should go away.

There HAS to be another inherent property that can be added to nonmed armor, which will make it more desirable, will still be relevant to Chise and his Siege pals, but which will NOT necessitate a cascading sequence of supporting nerfs and additions.

Inherent Battle Lust?
Inherent HLA?
Inherent HCI?
Inherent HCI cap increase?
Inherent bonus to the effect of HLD?
Inherent ANYTHING a dexer wants but a mage doesn't?

I mean pick one, you know? Then there's no need to worry about Mage armor, which means there's no need to worry about Mage Armor dexer arties, which means there's no need to add a new item, or a new conditional check, or anything. I'm even ready to shut up and take that SSI debuff that magically applies to enemies who hit nonmed armor now.

Of COURSE if you just go "Welp switching to nonmed costs dexers mana, let's find a different way to give them more mana!" then mages are going to try to get in on it too.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

His idea is to make all weapons faster. "Lowering" in this instance means going from 4.0s to 3.0s. You can also consider this an increase in the speed, since the weapons get faster. This was clear to me, when he stated this:
Faster weapons do not require as much stamina a slower weapons to attain the same swing speed.

His approach is an inventive way of getting to the same result as the current proposal, more mana. I prefer the current proposal becuase it is more direct.

Stayin Alive,

BG

Just re-read his idea and see my mistake. Sorry

And you are correct that it appears to be the wrong way around as far as mana is concerned.

I personally think that ever since AOS forced warriors to need/use as much mana as mages all armor should be medable.

Makes no sense that warriors have to back door huge amounts of mana/med/mr/intel all the while fighting against their own armor if it is non med. Force my entire class to try and load up on everything mana related yet push me towards non med armor because of stamina? Its a joke.

Mages are able to build logical suits that can easily and powerfully complement many different templates. That is how it should be for all classes imo.

 

[NuSair]

In returns, there are a few instances where you are better off using lightning strike or another special besides Armor Ignore (like in the case you mentioned, where you get the resist down low).

The way things are looking, I am considering moving my swords sampire away from Long Swords and maybe on to a two handed weapon.

Shields are so good now, on my swords sampire, I run a shield 90% of the time.

 

[KLOMP]

I personally think that ever since AOS forced warriors to need/use as much mana as mages all armor should be medable.

Look at me, I am even forced to agree with Goldberg.

All armor becomes medable. Resists balanced. Mage Armor goes away cleanly.

Metal (and studded and such) gets inherent HLA or HCI or whatever.

Leather gets inherent... uh... let's say casting focus.

Clean and simple, relatively speaking. Mages wear leather, warriors wear metal. You can even add different bonuses to studded or bone or whatever if you really want, and we can argue over which is better.

There are like a hundred different ways to balance things that don't require this whole tail-chasing sequence of "Okay nerf mage armor, wait some dexer gear has mage armor, um hold on..."

 

[chise2]

While I admit I do like the idea of inherant hci I think the best solution at this point is to just let mage armor have the benefits of nonmed armors if it is on such an armor type. I was wary of the idea at first mainly when it comes to the possiblity of 55% lmc but then read the arguments for letting mage armor keep the stamina and lmc bonuses and considered things and came to the conclusions my worries were likely unfounded. Not to mention I actually decided to play around with an imbue calculator and that did further convince me that the sacrifices would be a fair trade. I mean I donlt play a mage but I know a little bit and from what I saw you would probably have to give up lrc and carry regs. And even on Siege most people donlt carry regs lol!