Want to populate Felucca? Increase skillgains by 25% while there.

[Lythos-]

No you did not ask for this but yet you support it by stating
This is not a productive fel thread, it is a lure thread. You may not ask for this stuff but you do openly support it.

It's a lure thread from the OP wanting advanced skill gains in fel where people can macro in the safety of homes, boats, in guard zones? -i was against it if you would bother to read in which you obviously didn't.

It's a lure thread from my post wanting items that can be achieved already in tram rulesets added to a spawn that will draw some pvp almost everytime the champ pops?

This thread had potential until Klomp said "i don't care if Fel stays empty". Don't like it, don't want to play in it, then stay out of the threads.

I was stating every single thread gets derailed by the exact same "oh you're luring" crap or false excuses to why fel is empty. I play there everyday, i KNOW why it's empty and it's not some untrue version from players that haven't played there in 13 years. UO has lost MORE players due to disrespectful, one sided, closed minded people than have ever quit due to fel rulesets.

Take your "luring sheep" trolls somewhere else.

 

[Lythos-]

...
That being said...


The ONLY way I see Fel really being repopulated is by simply getting rid of the Non-Con PvP ruleset.

You're NOT going to get a non-PvP player to be pushed into a PvP/PK environment again. The market has evolved past that point.


Personally, I think they should DITCH all of the "lures" and double this and double that to try and bring people into Fel and have the land stand on its own merits.

I don't agree with the 1st part. If i want to instance pvp i'd play WoW. I like not knowing if a stealther will pop out and attack me. I like not knowing what will happen.

I haven't seen anyone ask for tram players to be pushed into fel. Fel has been totally neglected since powerscrolls. Pvpers have quit due to boredom and other games with a more active pvp playerbase. Half of those remaining are grinding underworld or shame trying to make some bank to get the best gear. If we get something new to fel it will draw all the pvpers together to fight and one icq will lead to another and we'll have a lot of reactivated pvp accounts. Put a chance for a slither drop or glacial hair dye ect ect in despise and that place will be humping with pvpers during primetime.

I agree with losing the double resources. People come to fel to pvp so i never really understood that.

 

[Tanivar]

If you all want to PvP together, copy your characters to TC1, go to it's fel facet, and have at it to your hearts content. 28 shards of Pvpers all on TC1 should give you enough for an occasional battle.

 

[Orgional Farimir]

This is a bad idea. We don't want "new" characters in Fel. We want already established characters who want to fight in Fel. The reason we want something to "intice" the current tram players to go to Fel is because we feel like PvP in UO is the best thing and that if others are willing to give it a shot they will enjoy it as well. They might not like it as much as the "hard core" PvPers, but they will enjoy the every changing tactics of PvP.

Now before someone goes off and says "I would try PvP, but I hate all of the trash talk in GC." Well from my personal expierence I have only met one guild that would trash talk a tram guild trying things in Fel. The vast majority of PvPers appriciate it when tram guilds attempt to do a champ spawn or something. The guild might get raided, might get killed, looted, and lose their spawn, but usually GC is quiet after this out of respect for them trying something in Fel.

Now I am sure there will be responses from people like Galen claiming they PvPed once 10 years ago and they were greifed so everyone in Fel is a greifer and nothing has changed from 10 years ago. Well the reality is people like that are so short sighted that they can't see past the end of their nose.

 

[kaio]

Nothing beats we need people in fel thread
How about we move powerscrolls,stat scrolls to iish..
Then we shrink fel to only be an area of 5x5 screens around yew MG.
And they get their own chat channel, so the rest of us, dont have to listen to all the 1337 language thise guys speak
After a few months, we can close down fel, and everyone would live happiely ever after...

 

[DerekL]

I was stating every single thread gets derailed by the exact same "oh you're luring" crap or false excuses to why fel is empty. I play there everyday, i KNOW why it's empty and it's not some untrue version from players that haven't played there in 13 years.

If you have an explanation as to how this is isn't luring, then feel free to explain how it isn't. If you have have a 'real' explanation as to why Fel is empty, feel free to share it with us.

 

[weins201]

enough said!

NOOOO

Noting said of any value but sure enough

another post before coffee kicked in

 

[Uvtha]

The ONLY way I see Fel really being repopulated is by simply getting rid of the Non-Con PvP ruleset. Not getting rid of PvP mind you, but getting rid of the Non-Con portion and having guildwars, arenas, and Factions (or its replacement) be the PvP "draw". Now, before you start pounding away on the keyboard, know that I do NOT think they should do this, but I recognize that it probably is the only way that they'll get Fel repopulated.

I honestly don't think the population is high enough to have both facets highly populated. But I think if they went back to some sort of pub 16 no loot deal that would probably draw people in to some degree.

I think you are mostly right though. Fel is just too similar to tram to have any small change make people want to play there. Same landmass, same dungeons... all they have is power scrolls.

So its probably never going to happen. The only way to repopulate it is to get more players a percentage of which will be into pvp. After that just make sure there are plenty of things to pvp over.

 

[Lythos-]

If you have an explanation as to how this is isn't luring, then feel free to explain how it isn't. If you have have a 'real' explanation as to why Fel is empty, feel free to share it with us.

I've written this very explaination more times than i care to remember but i'll do it one last time.

There's quite a few reasons to why fel has become empty.
-A lot couldn't and wouldn't even try to adapt when AoS came about. People like that are most likely to whine about every little change so good riddance.

-A lot of people quit due to the introduction of overpowered templates and the speed in which they're tweaked to become more balanced. I know a lot that hated fighting the nerve strike/deathstrike tamers so much they quit. Same with Greater dragons. Same with Dreadmares. I know of at least 10 people that totally quit when people were macroing the run and gun xplosion pots running shot archers. That was the most ignorant template and there was hardly anything you could do to counter that and it took months to get a fix when it should have only taken a week tops. Mystic nether bolt/arrow combo caused some to quit and throwers have made their mark as well.

-The pvper is a poor player. They either have to buy their gold or grind the best paying thing to have playable suits to keep up in the same item level as your opponent. A pvp character and suit will usually run a couple hundred mil. A top line mage suit will run 400mil and up. We have pvpers in medusa and in shame trying to make money. Since there's no recalls in fel, most of our shame grinders are in Tram.

-The faction screw up. It makes me so angry i'm not even going there.

-The biggest reason of all is the blind eye turned by the dev team. Fel has been totally neglected in terms of content since AoS and powerscrolls. Sure we got a couple new spawns but after 10 years grinding spawn, a new one isn't going to fix it. How would you like it if your facet of choice didn't get any content for 10 years? Don't give me that crap that i can play anywhere in game. I chose fel and shouldn't be forced into tram anymore than tram shouldn't be forced into fel. I don't think fel should ever get anything else exclusive but finding a way to incorporate a way to include everything already offered into a pvp type scenerio would greatly increase the fel population by pulling our pvpers out of shame tram and out of the underworld. It would also keep the younger pvpers from griefing events (see the griefed event thread).

Combine all of these and you have the very reason why fel is empty. It's not because "there's no more sheep" or "fel failed itself".

I back up all my opinions with hard facts which is more than most of you ever could.

 

[Eric Ravenwind]

Eric, I'm curious about what happened to make you start this thread? I think you have a legendary tamer already on Great Lakes and I was kind of under the impression you mostly or only do PvM activities; however, I could easily be wrong about that. So what prompted you to start this thread? Are you working on new characters and getting frustrated with the speed of skill gains or something or have you taken up or become more active in PvP? I'm not trying to be disrespectful or ornery, I'm just honestly curious about why you started this thread.

I was goofing off yesterday. Around Fel-Yew and Brit, poisoning apples (training Poisoning skill). Started thinking, "Well this is kinda fun; too bad i dont gain faster while getting blasted by the reds in the area".

 

[Eric Ravenwind]

As far as concerns about people training in Felucca homes, an idea could be to limit extra gains by making the only skills allowed to train in houses - crafting skills. Combat/spell skills could be doable in towns and the open wilds. Crafting skills could also be done in towns.

 

[SixUnder]

...

I go to Fel all the time. In fact, I use a NON-combat character in Fel... why? Because my miner knows two areas to mine in complete safety and still yield double resources. Depending on the cycle of my playing, doing so accounts for about 25-33% of my UO gaming.

That being said...


The ONLY way I see Fel really being repopulated is by simply getting rid of the Non-Con PvP ruleset. Not getting rid of PvP mind you, but getting rid of the Non-Con portion and having guildwars, arenas, and Factions (or its replacement) be the PvP "draw". Now, before you start pounding away on the keyboard, know that I do NOT think they should do this, but I recognize that it probably is the only way that they'll get Fel repopulated.

The days of pure non-con PvP in a game that was not COMPLETELY designed for it (and in many cases games that are based on MMO history) are simply gone. They died when Everquest released and gave people the first choice (which they made in DROVES). You're NOT going to get a non-PvP player to be pushed into a PvP/PK environment again. The market has evolved past that point.

Finally, the implementation of UO:R, long ago as it has now become (remember that people born when UO:R was released about about to become teenagers, dial-up was still the norm and we had just passed by the Y2K "bug"), was flawed in itself. Fel would have STAYED active had at the very least the rulesets been reversed and the smaller portion of the playerbase been pushed to the new facet. Secondarily, had the devs then not done the (not a) Mirror trick and actually had created new facets to handle the need for new housing and the need for open PvP, there may not have been need to break up the existing player communities of the time. Unfortunately, it's faaar too late to fix long-past mistakes.

Personally, I think they should DITCH all of the "lures" and double this and double that to try and bring people into Fel and have the land stand on its own merits. The presence of non-con PvP does NOT cause the trees to produce more wood or the mountains to produce more ore. An orc* in Fel is the same as an orc* in Tram or any other facet for that matter, so why should their loot be any different?

get rid of pvp huh...
say goodbye to this game, would not stay a float.
love us or hate us, the true A-holes of this game finance your candy land.

 

[SixUnder]

I've written this very explaination more times than i care to remember but i'll do it one last time.

-The pvper is a poor player. They either have to buy their gold or grind the best paying thing to have playable suits to keep up in the same item level as your opponent. A pvp character and suit will usually run a couple hundred mil. A top line mage suit will run 400mil and up. We have pvpers in medusa and in shame trying to make money. Since there's no recalls in fel, most of our shame grinders are in Tram.

I back up all my opinions with hard facts which is more than most of you ever could.

really....
do you know who i am, or how much money i have?
you cant count it....
and i been killing people since a large amount of our peers were in grade school.
be careful when you say things you think are facts, and what are facts..

 

[TBH]

Fel needs less care bears voicing their opinions about it, like all the ones in this thread. We get it, you guys don't like pvp, now please shhhh.

What fel truly needs are more things worth fighting over, dynamic npc events with significant pvp related drops. The idea of pirate ships having valuable cargo would be a good start. Another good idea would be caravans that you could attack, defend, or steal from for various rewards and tameables. Fel doesn't need alot of love but a few new things would be nice.

 

[DerekL]

I've written this very explaination more times than i care to remember but i'll do it one last time.

There's quite a few reasons to why fel has become empty.
-A lot couldn't and wouldn't even try to adapt when AoS came about. People like that are most likely to whine about every little change so good riddance.

I really should have given up right there... because Fel was already essentially empty when AoS came out.

Combine all of these and you have the very reason why fel is empty. It's not because "there's no more sheep" or "fel failed itself".

No, combine all these and it becomes obvious that you've confused 'the death of PvP' with 'Fel being empty'. The two things aren't even remotely the same thing, as could plainly be seen with the rapid emptying of Fel post-Renaissance. Some people lived in Fel by choice during that period, but even during the housing crisis of 2002-03... while Trammel houses were selling for three figures of real-life money you could often barely give away a Fel house. Each and every time the playerbase has been offered the chance to live and work somewhere other than Fel, they've overwhelmingly voted with their feet. Failing to acknowledge that basic and unarguable fact is to live in a dreamworld, disconnected from reality.

As with the choice of 'where to live', so goes the choice of 'where to play'. Post-Renaissance. even as Trammel cities (even remote and tiny ones like Cove) thronged with life, Felucca cities sat virtually empty.

Which was why, back in the day, the idea of lures first arose - as an attempt to restore 'life to Fel'. Whether the lure is double resources, or champ spawns and powerscrolls, the bulk of the playerbase has made the same choice - one consistent with ones already made. They stay away in droves, and the result for over a decade now has been the same... endless discussion of more 'lures' to 'bring people back to Fel'. Why? The elephant in the room that so many Felucca (and Siege) adherents spend endless amounts of energy tapdancing around when they don't straight up pretend it doesn't exist - the vast majority of players hate thieves, non-con PVP, and the griefing that accompnies them and will always choose to avoid it if the option exists. (This goes for all MMO's - UO is not unique in that aspect.) Even when they do choose to (briefly) enter Fel, they don't stay there any longer than need forces them to - they return to Trammel to live and carry out their other business. This blatantly obvious situation is what leads so many to deride 'lures' - they simply don't work. People have not chosen to live and work in Fel over a decade, and at this late date yet more lures aren't going to change that. Again, this is a basic and unarguable fact.

I back up all my opinions with hard facts which is more than most of you ever could.

Yes, you have (a certain subset of very selectively read) facts, but pretty much none of them are on point because they deal with PvP and fail to address the 'elephant' mentioned above and why people choose not to live and work in Fel.

 

[TBH]

SixUnder, they will never get it. They have this feeling of superiority because they play the "good side" of this game. They don't realize they need the bad side to at least feel good about themselves.

 

[Eric Ravenwind]

SixUnder, they will never get it. They have this feeling of superiority because they play the "good side" of this game. They don't realize they need the bad side to at least feel good about themselves.

Out of all the things that define me, video game standing isn't even on the list..

 

[TBH]

Out of all the things that define me, video game standing isn't even on the list..

Maybe you aren't part of the they I was referring to...

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

The idea that it's the Trammel players who have the feeling of superiority is creative, given the actual history of what's gone on on the boards and in-game. Remember, for example, that the derogatory terms "Trammie" and "Care Bear" came about long, long before any corresponding terms for Fel players, commonly used by Trammel players, were invented. And that's just a start.

-Galen's player

 

[Lord Frodo]

I've written this very explaination more times than i care to remember but i'll do it one last time.

There's quite a few reasons to why fel has become empty.
-A lot couldn't and wouldn't even try to adapt when AoS came about. People like that are most likely to whine about every little change so good riddance.
%100 agree

-A lot of people quit due to the introduction of overpowered templates and the speed in which they're tweaked to become more balanced. I know a lot that hated fighting the nerve strike/deathstrike tamers so much they quit. Same with Greater dragons. Same with Dreadmares. I know of at least 10 people that totally quit when people were macroing the run and gun xplosion pots running shot archers. That was the most ignorant template and there was hardly anything you could do to counter that and it took months to get a fix when it should have only taken a week tops. Mystic nether bolt/arrow combo caused some to quit and throwers have made their mark as well.
Tryig to balance PvP is a good thing but a lot of times it nerfs PvM player and when you try to talk with the PvPers about this you almost always get the same answer "Suck it up we don't care about PvM now get out of our thread." There needs to be a way to balance PvP without nerfing PvM.

-The pvper is a poor player. They either have to buy their gold or grind the best paying thing to have playable suits to keep up in the same item level as your opponent. A pvp character and suit will usually run a couple hundred mil. A top line mage suit will run 400mil and up. We have pvpers in medusa and in shame trying to make money. Since there's no recalls in fel, most of our shame grinders are in Tram.
%100 agree. Cost of suits are way over the line. I've even seen some PvMers running of the same.

-The faction screw up. It makes me so angry i'm not even going there.
Chaos v Order. Quit trying to draw people into Factions with perks (faction Arties) that can be used outside of Factions. Same with going out of Fel with them. Faction Arties only work in faction areas and when you step out of a Faction Area they fall into your backpack.

-The biggest reason of all is the blind eye turned by the dev team. Fel has been totally neglected in terms of content since AoS and powerscrolls. Sure we got a couple new spawns but after 10 years grinding spawn, a new one isn't going to fix it. How would you like it if your facet of choice didn't get any content for 10 years? Don't give me that crap that i can play anywhere in game. I chose fel and shouldn't be forced into tram anymore than tram shouldn't be forced into fel. I don't think fel should ever get anything else exclusive but finding a way to incorporate a way to include everything already offered into a pvp type scenerio would greatly increase the fel population by pulling our pvpers out of shame tram and out of the underworld. It would also keep the younger pvpers from griefing events (see the griefed event thread).
Fel was given the BIGGEST game changing items (PS/Stat Scrolls) back with Pub 16. I am very willing to give Fel everything non-Fel ruleset has and at the same time you have to be willing to give everything Fel ruleset has to the non-Fel ruleset or it will never work. That is the flack you run into evertime this is brought up. Most of the Fel players only want what they want are are now willing to give up anything.

Combine all of these and you have the very reason why fel is empty. It's not because "there's no more sheep" or "fel failed itself".

I back up all my opinions with hard facts which is more than most of you ever could.

What Fel has gotten or requested

1. Power/Stat Scrolls - BIGGEST game changing item still to date.
2. Double resources
3. Larger Sots
4. Stygian Abyss 2 new Champ Spawns with Fel ruleset. The Abyssal Infernal Spawn and The Primeval Lich Spawn
5. PvP balance with no reguards to how it changes the rest of UO because they really do not care as long as they get what they want. This is not all Fel players but it sure looks like the majority.
6. Faction Arties that you can use anywhere.
7. Devs that think the only way to get people to Fel is to intice them there.

Give both Fel and Tram rulesets everything, balance PvP without hurting the rest of UO and a Faction or Order/Chaos System that can only be used in the Faction or Order/Chaos Areas, no more overpowered Arties allowed outside of these areas (they fall into backpack) even in Fel.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

They (meaning the team) should I think give up on the idea of luring more people to Fel, and do away with all Fel-specific incentives that currently exist.

HOWEVER.....They should also provide a means in Fel to get everything that one can get in Tram, and things now that are Fel-specific (such as certain Champ Spawn Artifacts, power scrolls, and Harrower stat scrolls), should be much-easier to get in Fel than they would be in Tram. And things that currently are Tram rules-only would be much easier to get in the Tram rules facets but would be available in Felucca

This way both sides keep a distinct identity but barring EM events or global event content or the like, one would no longer have to go to his or her non-preferred rules set. They may find it convenient to do so because certain things spawn more often there, but they would no longer have to.

Let's face it: Interaction (cross-rules set playing or cross-rule set trade) is about the worst thing for player relationships at this point.

-Galen's player

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

A) Won't work, nobody will go, at least not for any skill that can't be macroed safely in town.

B) I don't really care if Felucca stays empty and don't see why there should be any obligation to force people to go.

The notion that the developers just need to make a certain change and then the carebears will come to Felucca and discover all the fun and excitement and stick around to "populate" it is one of the most abiding and insane Feluccan fantasies. It's empty, it's always been empty, it'll be empty forever, nobody else likes it, deal with it.

1) OP is a bad idea

2) You obviously have not played long or simply just jave no clue if you think fel is empty or has always been empty

3) Anything you say from this moment on is null and void in my book because of your obvious bias and blind hatred

4) If you are on these boards because you enjoy playing UO you should be made to understand that any facet or shard that "stays empty" is very bad for the overall health of the game and not something to wish for.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

Yes, I have said it before, and it is true, and the fact that I keep having to say it because of a small group of vocal people with a disproportionate influence on the boards is very saddening to me.

If Fel didn't fel there would've been no need for incentives because people would never have left. People left, hence incentives were needed, and they've all failed long-term. Hence people ask for more, hence this thread.

Fel is still around because of UO's past and because of the disproportionate influence on the boards of its dwindling population.

-Galen's player

Incorrect.

Fel is still around because it is the lifeblood of UO and always has been.

There was no boring and pathetic daycare center that you now call Tram in the beginning bud. The game was created online with one facet and a free for all ruleset and the game flourished.

Tram was nothing more then the beginning of the end. The game should have just been unplugged as opposed to watered down.

The creation of Tram was an inoperable cancer that is slowly killing UO.

Not having the guts or ability to pvp leaves you doing nothing more then decorating your house or farming ridiculously easy and boring monsters. If robotic farming and decorating was your thing you could have just stuck to your nintendo or playstation and left our great game alone.

 

[The Slug]

Not having the guts or ability to pvp leaves you doing nothing more then decorating your house or farming ridiculously easy and boring monsters. If robotic farming and decorating was your thing you could have just stuck to your nintendo or playstation and left our great game alone.

That attitude has caused far more players to leave fel and/or quit uo than pvper's who have quit because there was no-one left to fight.

The playerbase is dwindling (badly it seems) yet why do these pvper's think that everyone just loves logging in to UO to be subjected this nonsense 24-7? 80% if not more of the playerbase doesn't care.

I'm not anti-pvp by any means. I'm anti delusional fool who feels that individually they are the lifeblood of UO and no-one else has a say

Hint: when you kill someone in pvp kudos to you, job well done. You don't need to tell your "victim" to delete all his/her accounts. You don't need personal attacks. Believe it or not (and most don't) that the uo community is just that, a community. And there is both room and a need for pvp in that community.

OK end rant ... lol I just don't understand why those that claim there is no-one left to fight think that insults and attacks will entice anyone else to fight.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Incorrect.

Fel is still around because it is the lifeblood of UO and always has been.

There was no boring and pathetic daycare center that you now call Tram in the beginning bud. The game was created online with one facet and a free for all ruleset and the game flourished.

Tram was nothing more then the beginning of the end. The game should have just been unplugged as opposed to watered down.

The creation of Tram was an inoperable cancer that is slowly killing UO.

Not having the guts or ability to pvp leaves you doing nothing more then decorating your house or farming ridiculously easy and boring monsters. If robotic farming and decorating was your thing you could have just stuck to your nintendo or playstation and left our great game alone.

As I have explained repeatedly, Fel succeeded in the beginning because UO in effect had no competition.

Once upon a time, the competition was Everquest. Then it was Trammel. Either way people never looked back but, with the latter, they were still playing UO.

I've provided links before which show that two of UO's original people, Garriott and Long, recognized that the old rules set was a problem and that Trammel was necessary. It is not my fault that you choose to ignore reality. I do you a certain courtesy in presuming that ignoring reality is your own choice. I note that, in not showing me the same courtesy but instead by continuall engaging in attacks, you eloquently prove my earlier point that it's not the Trammel players who consistently demonstrage a feeling of superiority.

-Galen's player

 

[CovenantX]

Personally, I think they should DITCH all of the "lures" and double this and double that to try and bring people into Fel and have the land stand on its own merits. The presence of non-con PvP does NOT cause the trees to produce more wood or the mountains to produce more ore. An orc* in Fel is the same as an orc* in Tram or any other facet for that matter, so why should their loot be any different?

I agree, they should remove "double resources" from fel.
While it is an incentive, it attracts miners/lumberjackers... not pvpers.
I would hope... pvpers don't want to farm miners/lumberjackers all day... but, I've been surprised before.


An orc in tram is different from an orc in fel?
They are the same difficulty & loot, except you can't just walk through them so it's more of a hassle in fel.

 

[cazador]

Just remember Fel haters..we are the ones buying your stuff..without us buying it you have no need to farm it..or farm it to make that flavor of the month template to solo a boss just to farm it to sell to us..or to farm to sell to the guy making his new suit to go farm something to sell to us..see without Fel all your tram filled lands would look more and more like the desolate felucca ...idea to revitalize Fel are good for both parties not just the Feluccan..I think the sooner you realize that the sooner we can then badger the devs even more to push for some real new players to try this game..till then vets will say "Man that game is dead..no interest to get back into it" and noobs will say "What's Ultima Online?"

 

[Theo_GL]

enough said!

Isn't it funny how we get idea after idea to 'populate fel' that all essentially include luring people to play there that don't want to play there? Comical really. 'Lets put a milkshake out! How about free candy? Lets put a coupon for a free happy meal!'

Luring people to grief is not the answer to populate fel and certainly skill gain is not really an effective lure.
You can simply get a house there or go in a guardzone and work up most skills for 25% more gains. As it is I ALWAYS build dexers at fel champ spawns as the gains are fast with the high spawn.

If you want to 'populate fel' make it worthwhile that people want to go and participate in the action. Create real skill based ladders and fair fights and other activities specific to fel and people will go. The problem is the PvP trash talking 10% of the playerbase has chased away the rest of the playerbase off the game or to tram and what is left is basically the UO equavalent of the afterschool detention room. They are tired of harassing each other and need the 'good kids' to harass only the good kids know how to avoid them. I only wish it was easier to avoid them in gen chat. Being forced in gen chat to listen to 'You are so bad. You suck. xx guild is pathetic. Why are you so bad? You are a loser' is actually fairly detremental to the game. New players exposed to this do not have a good impression of the game. Yes you can mute/block them in chat but honestly its hard to keep up and new players don't know how to.

For the record - I spend 80% of my playtime in fel but don't PvP as I see no point in it and no enjoyment in it. My enjoyment in game does not include/involve besting another player - I'd rather work co-operatively.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Just remember Fel haters..we are the ones buying your stuff..without us buying it you have no need to farm it..or farm it to make that flavor of the month template to solo a boss just to farm it to sell to us..or to farm to sell to the guy making his new suit to go farm something to sell to us..see without Fel all your tram filled lands would look more and more like the desolate felucca ...idea to revitalize Fel are good for both parties not just the Feluccan..I think the sooner you realize that the sooner we can then badger the devs even more to push for some real new players to try this game..till then vets will say "Man that game is dead..no interest to get back into it" and noobs will say "What's Ultima Online?"

I have seen no evidence that there's enough Fel players to constitute the kind of economic base that your argument requires.

Usually the supporting evidence for such notions, and they have been advanced many times before, consists of hefty doses of ideology and faith about what the numbers should be.

I think, though, that you will find only a minority of players who would rather just dump Fel. If you look at my posts, for example --and I'm one of the most-vocal Trammel players I'm aware of -- I have outlined proposals that do not involve dumping Fel. Indeed you will, if you analyze the posts objectively, see a much higher proportion of Felucca players who want to dump Trammel than the reverse.

-Galen's player

 

[Tanivar]

There was no boring and pathetic daycare center that you now call Tram in the beginning bud. The game was created online with one facet and a free for all ruleset and the game flourished.

Missed that mass exodus of Players leaving the game and taking their monthly fees with them due to the PKer and thieves did you now? The game was not flourishing, it was bleeding paying customers so bad the Devs had to do something drastic before the game bottom line went into the red and it was shut down. It was give those leaving customers somewhere to go in UO, and keep them as paying customers for EA, or watch them go to other games and wind up pulling the plug on UO.

Tram was nothing more then the beginning of the end. The game should have just been unplugged as opposed to watered down.

Tram, while a drastic step, was what saved UO from indeed being closed down. The game bloomed after Trammel was created because it gave Players a place they could go and have fun for their monthly fee, not just be fun for self-centered others for that monthly fee.

The creation of Tram was an inoperable cancer that is slowly killing UO.

Trammel was the savior of UO and has kept it alive for 13 more years and perhaps many more beyond that, by restricting the PK & thief griefing blight to just the fel facet where it can't finish off the game and send it into the dust heap of failed games.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

I have seen no evidence that there's enough Fel players to constitute the kind of economic base that your argument requires.

Usually the supporting evidence for such notions, and they have been advanced many times before, consists of hefty doses of ideology and faith about what the numbers should be.

I think, though, that you will find only a minority of players who would rather just dump Fel. If you look at my posts, for example --and I'm one of the most-vocal Trammel players I'm aware of -- I have outlined proposals that do not involve dumping Fel. Indeed you will, if you analyze the posts objectively, see a much higher proportion of Felucca players who want to dump Trammel than the reverse.

-Galen's player

You just dont get it bud

It is quite the opposite.

A huge % of all pvpers spend alot of time in Trammel. Every hardcore pvp guild I have ever been in has a tram/farming vent channel. There are certain items that are only obtained there plus you just dont pvp 24/7.
Its nice to mix things up.

Its not the land that pvpers hate. Its the clueless Tram-only mentality that is annoying so please spare me your "higher proportion" nonsense.

Bottom line is that Tram only players like yourself are without question the real problem as you disregard & trashtalk an entire facet you dont even know about or populate. At least the pvpers are talking about something they know of on both sides.

If you havent been regularly playing either facet for a long period you cannot talk intelligently so please spare me any history lessons.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

Missed that mass exodus of Players leaving the game and taking their monthly fees with them due to the PKer and thieves did you now? The game was not flourishing, it was bleeding paying customers so bad the Devs had to do something drastic before the game bottom line went into the red and it was shut down. It was give those leaving customers somewhere to go in UO, and keep them as paying customers for EA, or watch them go to other games and wind up pulling the plug on UO.



Tram, while a drastic step, was what saved UO from indeed being closed down. The game bloomed after Trammel was created because it gave Players a place they could go and have fun for their monthly fee, not just be fun for self-centered others for that monthly fee.



Trammel was the savior of UO and has kept it alive for 13 more years and perhaps many more beyond that, by restricting the PK & thief griefing blight to just the fel facet where it can't finish off the game and send it into the dust heap of failed games.

I am sorry but if you dont regularly play both facets as I do your opinion is completely without supporting facts or merit. Deal with it

 

[Tanivar]

Indeed you will, if you analyze the posts objectively, see a much higher proportion of Felucca players who want to dump Trammel than the reverse.

-Galen's player

Those who want to dump Trammel apparently think that will force all UO Players to become their targets for PKing, Thieving, and griefing. That those UO Players will just stop playing that new not fun UO and leave UO for another game apparently escapes them completely. The mass exodus of paying customers that forced the creation of Trammel would just quickly begin again, and with all the games out there now, it will happen much faster. End of UO.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

You just dont get it bud

It is quite the opposite.

A huge % of all pvpers spend alot of time in Trammel. Every hardcore pvp guild I have ever been in has a tram/farming vent channel. There are certain items that are only obtained there plus you just dont pvp 24/7.
Its nice to mix things up.

Its not the land that pvpers hate. Its the clueless Tram-only mentality that is annoying so please spare me your "higher proportion" nonsense.

Bottom line is that Tram only players like yourself are without question the real problem as you disregard & trashtalk an entire facet you dont even know about or populate. At least the pvpers are talking about something they know of on both sides.

If you havent been regularly playing either facet for a long period you cannot talk intelligently so please spare me any history lessons.

As I have explained repeatedly, if half of what you say were true, there would have been no Trammel at all, as no one would have left for Everquest when it became available. If there had been no Trammel, there would have been no Dungeon Khaldun nor Power Scrolls as there would have been no need for an incentive. People would have stayed where they were.

There is no actual evidence for pretty much anything you've said on this topic. Your argument consists of ideological necessity.

The Tram-only mentality you describe also only exists to a marginal extent, if at all, and is of far more-recent vintage than the Fel-only mentality that's chased a lot of players away from Fel, and from the game, over the years.

Fel players have a great advantage on the board because being more aggressive types by nature for them it's about winning the discussion; reality is not required. I, by contrast, feel myself constrained by reality and thus am inclined to be more measured, more deliberative, and surely am not inclined to refer to my enemies as "bud," "clueless," "off their rocker," "nonsense," etc. I may find myself lasping into such language on rare occasions but it's not typical.

Look, by contrast, at the number of times, in this discussion alone, you have used such terms. I'm out to describe reality as it is. You're out to win what you appear to perceive as a fight.

-Galen's player

 

[Tanivar]

I am sorry but if you dont regularly play both facets as I do your opinion is completely without supporting facts or merit. Deal with it

Stop imitating an ostrich and pull your head out of the sand.

 

[Viper09]

Increasing skill gain in fel isn't a bad idea, however it certainly wouldn't increase the population of fel. Skill gain isn't really that hard as it is and those who don't want to go to fel still wouldn't go there for an increased skill gain. Some might go to fel out of frustration in gaining a certain skill but it's not going to keep them coming back. Depending on the skill they're training, they might even be in a secure location or some isolated area. Again, not a bad idea in general, but it is a bad idea if the ultimate goal is to try to lure people into fel.

 

[Lady CaT]

Yes because all the changes to fel for the last 15 years have made quite the difference...lol

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

As I have explained repeatedly, if half of what you say were true, there would have been no Trammel at all, as no one would have left for Everquest when it became available. If there had been no Trammel, there would have been no Dungeon Khaldun nor Power Scrolls as there would have been no need for an incentive. People would have stayed where they were.

There is no actual evidence for pretty much anything you've said on this topic. Your argument consists of ideological necessity.

The Tram-only mentality you describe also only exists to a marginal extent, if at all, and is of far more-recent vintage than the Fel-only mentality that's chased a lot of players away from Fel, and from the game, over the years.

Fel players have a great advantage on the board because being more aggressive types by nature for them it's about winning the discussion; reality is not required. I, by contrast, feel myself constrained by reality and thus am inclined to be more measured, more deliberative, and surely am not inclined to refer to my enemies as "bud," "clueless," "off their rocker," "nonsense," etc. I may find myself lasping into such language on rare occasions but it's not typical.

Look, by contrast, at the number of times, in this discussion alone, you have used such terms. I'm out to describe reality as it is. You're out to win what you appear to perceive as a fight.

-Galen's player

Thats funny

You have no firsthand concept of what fel is but because you express your total lack of knowledge with good manners your points are valid somehow?

Indubitably.

 

[Warpig Inc]

More PVP requires a new land. Fresh start by going there naked. All that uber gear drops or the the supplies to create the god gear would be lacking to rare. Only low end runics can be earned there. Faster skill gain is not the cure all for newer players to a PVP relm. Land area where gear have a greater insurance cost the more uber the item is. Nothing there will get the bless treatment. Sure the rich will arm themselves to the teeth and spread the wealth at death to wlak in godlike shoes. No need for a new old shard but a new land that makes skill vs gear have the balance to cost drive. With the coming gear revamp why not a new land opened where we all get the fresh start effect.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Thats funny

You have no firsthand concept of what fel is but because you express your total lack of knowledge with good manners your points are valid somehow?

Indubitably.

I have spent a lot of time in Fel, actually, in my day but in recent months have given it up entirely.

Making up facts is bad.

-Galen's player

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

More PVP requires a new land. Fresh start by going there naked. All that uber gear drops or the the supplies to create the god gear would be lacking to rare. Only low end runics can be earned there. Faster skill gain is not the cure all for newer players to a PVP relm. Land area where gear have a greater insurance cost the more uber the item is. Nothing there will get the bless treatment. Sure the rich will arm themselves to the teeth and spread the wealth at death to wlak in godlike shoes. No need for a new old shard but a new land that makes skill vs gear have the balance to cost drive. With the coming gear revamp why not a new land opened where we all get the fresh start effect.

Because there are not enough people interested in PvP to support the current PvP lands, let alone new ones, and because then people will complain that the player base is more split.

Insurance is already scalred to the item worth, based on Imbuing weight. Perhaps you would argue that it is still too cheap, but it is indeed scaled.

I fail to see what impact removing blesses would have save for that an item would have to somehow be insured in some lands and blessed in others and, when non-blessed, players would be able to get back into the fight slightly faster, thus making the game easier, because of the quirks of how blessed items don't re-equip automatically.

-Galen's player

 

[Quickblade]

OP this is bad idea, fel need better ideas, sorry .

 

[cazador]

Yes because all the changes to fel for the last 15 years have made quite the difference...lol

The only changes to fel in 15 years have been powerscrolls and tram..

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

The only changes to fel in 15 years have been powerscrolls and tram..

No.

Started with Khaldun, which failed.

Power Scrolls worked for awhile but sooner or later that failed too, hence people arguing that Power Scrolls do not present a "meaningful" reward.

Double Fame. Double Resources. Better chance (according to anecdotal reports) at getting Champ Spawn Artifacts that can spawn in both Fel and Ilshenar.

Two new Champ Spawns, with unique artifacts (especially the undead one), and really cool content, that is, you guessed it, under-used because the population with any Fel interest is too small to support them.

I have explained this, repeatedly, in many posts over the years. People choosing to ignore it cannot change the underlying reality.

-Galen's player

 

[CovenantX]

We've been over all this many times... fel is dead because there's nothing worth going there for other then pvp... just about all the pvp moved to Atl.

Everything you can get in fel, you can also get in trammel, excluding powerscrolls. Powerscrolls caused fel to have a massive surge in population when they were first introduced.
Then, they took the "Easy" part away from blues, spawns were still Very popular for about 6 years or so after that, once people have all their 120 scrolls, they don't need them anymore.

We need new players to bring any life back to this game. there are many factors that would discourage new players from staying...

Currently (in no particular order)

1. Economy*
2. Scripting* (Illegally)
3. Learning Curve (UO is probably the hardest game to learn as a new-player) could be simplified if UO used more tool-tips and had some kind of In-game property guide, but this is half the fun to me...
4. Skill/item imbalances (mostly pvp, but some pve) Throwers, Mystics & DP templates come to mind for PvP... Sampires/Wammies come to mind for PvE.. & Armor Ignore
5. In-game Support (we need a UO-Only GM team) maybe with #6, it might improve?
6. Little to no Advertising (maybe with the up-coming U4E, we might see a small surge of players, Hopefully)

 

[CovenantX]

No.

Started with Khaldun, which failed.

-Galen's player

Hmm, What caused Khaldun to "Fail" ?

My guess, would because it has nothing unique to offer over any other dungeons. I wouldn't say it failed because it is a fel-only dungeon.

Khaldun was open in trammel at one point. I want to say it was for a halloween event of some sort.. but I wasn't actively playing as much back then.

 

[cazador]

No.

Started with Khaldun, which failed.

Power Scrolls worked for awhile but sooner or later that failed too, hence people arguing that Power Scrolls do not present a "meaningful" reward.

Double Fame. Double Resources. Better chance (according to anecdotal reports) at getting Champ Spawn Artifacts that can spawn in both Fel and Ilshenar.

Two new Champ Spawns, with unique artifacts (especially the undead one), and really cool content, that is, you guessed it, under-used because the population with any Fel interest is too small to support them.

I have explained this, repeatedly, in many posts over the years. People choosing to ignore it cannot change the underlying reality.

-Galen's player

New champs spawns with awesome deco..that's what we want! That's like adding Luna Version 2.0 and calling it new and exciting content!

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

Hmm, What caused Khaldun to "Fail" ?

My guess, would because it has nothing unique to offer over any other dungeons. I wouldn't say it failed because it is a fel-only dungeon.

Khaldun was open in trammel at one point. I want to say it was for a halloween event of some sort.. but I wasn't actively playing as much back then.

Actually there was some unique content there, though it's been a long while so I don't recall the specifics, and, as importantly as unique content (especially since your colleage cazador has just posted something that could be read as saying Fel players specifically do not want unique content), it was for a good long while the best way to get high-end magic weapons, of the pre-AoS variety.

And it was just a great, great dungeon that largely was wasted, due to popular lack of interest in the Facet it was placed in.

-Galen's player

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

New champs spawns with awesome deco..that's what we want! That's like adding Luna Version 2.0 and calling it new and exciting content!

Funny, I thought the idea was getting new people to go to Fel and re-populating an otherwise dead rules set.

Guess not.

*chuckles*

Ultimately basically every pro-Fel argument, when examined logically, explodes under its own weight or is based on falsehoods or, weirdly, both.

Save one: Fel is a part of the game that appears to be unique among MMOs and represents a part of the game's past.

Other games have PvP maps that are connected to some broader story in some way, by no means a bad thing but not the same as Fel's free-form, "street gang" style PvP where it's lewt and pride that's more at issue than, say, the balance of power between the Alliance and the Horde. Other games also, benefiting from UO's example, are basically non-PvP games with PvP elements, whereas UO, due to the failed social experiment of player justice, began as a PvP-centric game (though it didn't mean to and would have long-ago failed had it remained such).

I have come to propose a specific mechanism wherein everything will spawn in either rules set, but things that currently spawn in the Tram rules facets will continue to primarily spawn there, and likewise for things that currently spawn in the Fel rules facets.

It grows very wearying, however, fighting with people who are out to win whereas I'm out to deliberate and be truthful.

I guess that's the idea.....I'm still obligated, though, to stay in the arena long enough that none reasonably can say the truth wasn't spoken.

-Galen's player

 

[cazador]

You misunderstand what fel players want..we don't want you coming in on your samphire for to OMFG PwN JOo...we would rather talent and since that doesn't exist we would rather a system that is fun and entertaining for us like your beating MoBs is fun and entertaining to you. I don't see the ill logic in the system.YOU DO! What we want is better ways to PVP not lure you monkeys for us to kill..