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If the Boses were a lot tougher (non soloable) under a Tram rule set, but remain the same under Fel rule set, wouldn't this prevent scripting the spawn? A scripter would try soloing it but if they make it non-soloable then it is most likely gonna kill the scripter. And as a side note spawns in Tram would have to be done as a group.
They've already stated they're reviewing champs for a revamp to make them less necro friendly. If it's anything like the dungeon revamps they're going to be pretty hard.
Everyone needs to stay positive and open minded so we can move this forward to find some common ground we can all agree on. People will listen as long we're reasonable and willing to give at the same time we take.
Everyone needs to stay positive and open minded so we can move this forward to find some common ground we can all agree on. People will listen as long we're reasonable and willing to give at the same time we take.
If I recall they had some groups the devs talked to but I think both were PvP and PvE. Not sure if it was on an expansion or just put together at one time. Good idea to bring that back up though.
Balances are always issues. Somebody please remind me that there is a sdi cap of 15% in fel and tram facets there is or isnt? The reason why I ask if you PvE in fel would the 15% sdi cap be for monsters also or it just pvp?
Balances are always issues. Somebody please remind me that there is a sdi cap of 15% in fel and tram facets there is or isnt? The reason why I ask if you PvE in fel would the 15% sdi cap be for monsters also or it just pvp?
If UO's had the population it once had (or more), then I could see more fel-based facets. I would rather (this is just me) that fel had items Only obtainable there, and Trammel, Ilshenar, Malas, Tokuno, & Ter-mur all have their own items only obtained in them areas. like power-scrolls but something that's NOT out-dated.
I don't see a point in doing an ilshenar spawn when you can do them in fel and get the same rewards + power-scrolls, and if power-scrolls were available in tram/ilsh, what would be the point in doing them in Fel?
the drop-rates would need to be at least 50% greater in fel if everything were the same, otherwise everyone would just farm it in trammel to get it for their PvP chars.
Keep in mind, it's not about bringing Non-PvPers to fel, it's about bringing the PvPers to fel with something to fight over, other then Yew-Gate.
This would be Equal content, but not the Same content in every area. (reasons/incentives to do both sides is what I'm aiming for)
I don't see a point in doing an ilshenar spawn when you can do them in fel and get the same rewards + power-scrolls, and if power-scrolls were available in tram/ilsh, what would be the point in doing them in Fel?
the drop-rates would need to be at least 50% greater in fel if everything were the same, otherwise everyone would just farm it in trammel to get it for their PvP chars.
Keep in mind, it's not about bringing Non-PvPers to fel, it's about bringing the PvPers to fel with something to fight over, other then Yew-Gate.
This would be Equal content, but not the Same content in every area. (reasons/incentives to do both sides is what I'm aiming for)
Less Necro-friendly hmm? I like... I like a lot... I'm hoping they are hard, just hard enough to NOT be solo-able
You quoted me when I was quoting petra. So I quoted you back. See what happens when you quote me for no reason. You should quote the right person aka petra.
PvM is very easy, trammies just like to complain when fel gets something.
You can solo just about everything in game as is.
I've seen people script 5 characters walking together in spawns, whats to stop them from doing that on the tram side?
Sorry but adding another thing that can be scripted with no actions to stop them [pvp] is something i'm against.
They also talked about fixing for factions. That talk lasted for two years then it was mangled beyond belief.
So just because they talk about something doesn't mean it will be taken care of with a quickness. Also it doesn't mean they'll get it right. They often add changes that make things for the worst. Personally I always think they add content because they feel they HAVE to and it ruins the game. That's why a lot of free shards do so well they aren't changing things for no reason. I realize they think they need to do this to earn a paycheck but there is plenty of content to fix ect before just adding things for the sake of adding and or changing just for the sake of that.
PvP and PvM is very easy to some and not so to others and both sides need to be considered equally. As far as trammies (as you like to call them) complaining (at least what you call complaining) about Fel players getting something you must consider that anything put into a Tram rule set is open to all players and when things are put into a Fel rule set it is gen. placed on a spawn that requires PvMers to do and is almost always raided by PvPers under the guise that this is considered PvP by the Spawn Raiders. IMHO PvPers attacking PvMers is not about PvP but is more about controling an item and nothing more.
I remember when this was brought up and didn't Cal or one of the Devs say that they fixed this type of script.
... and on and on.
There are PKers who want lambs in fel, yes, but the majority of PvPers want more people who can PvP in fel. More people trying to spawn so that raids can commense (win or lose, the fight is the best part!), etc etc. Your self admitted PvP hatred is showing through.
Arenas are fine--but maybe change the guard zone rules or whatnot because if people are dueling and others want to watch, you have to go get your non-faction blue chars to watch. Make the areas around the arena completely battle free so factions, reds, and blues can watch the fights without worrying about getting ganked at the end. (or middle, or beginning, whatever)
My second idea is to, instead of current factions and/or order and chaos, just have a "factions" button on each guild. Have factions rules set up in some manner that creates compeition between the guilds, and let them go at it. This prevents the same faction problem and all other guilds in the "factions" will be orange, but without an assigned loyalty. Instead, just have kill points, a short (5 minutes) stat, and some other nifty ranky things to give kudos to those who kill the other guys. Maybe some sort of game sponsered "pvp guild of the week" thing or something, I dunno.
Those are my 3 cents.
Right and this is exactly why we the players need to work together to accomplish the common goal. Things usually don't go right because nobody can agree on anything and it's left up for grabs on what would please the majority. What sounds good can be totally detrimental to a whole playstyle.
This is a business and adding content is just another way to try to draw in and keep subs. Some of it backfires but the intentions are there. If ideas are thrown out for players and everyone can agree things would go a whole lot smoother.
yes, there are those who get off on "controlling the shard" and "cornering the market." a lot of the PvP world thinks those guys blow.
but, if more of the PvMers who go to fel for scrolls or whatnot would team up with some of the friendlier PvP guys and learn the art of it, then they could hold their own and have their numbers in fel pushing their own agendas. it is a learning curve, there's no doubt, because, it's true, there are some serious a-holes out there.
I wonder of this, if anyone would be a willing Mentor.
absolutely. most pvpers want more people in fel. i now that if anyone wants to pick my brain on chessy, i'll tell you what i know
Your kidding right, poorly written...read that second sentence out loud and see if it makes any sense..., but I digress(go ahead and look that up will you)...that this is not the point of this thread. And I will try and play nice, but I am concerned when a small portion of the UO community, is coming to up with fairly sweeping changes that affect the entire UO community, only benefiting the small portion.
-There is a lot of dancing around what is essentially consensual PVP(either by having pure chaos/order, or putting PS in Trammel) and as much I would love to never be attacked again, I don't believe this is a successful model. I can't remember, but wasn't that the mainstay of everquest...
-I find it disturbing how making Trammel Monsters more difficult, eliminating the ability to solo champ spawns, or adding anti-Sampire mobs has anything to do with enhancing the the Felluca landscape. This is the problem with a small fraction coming up with sweeping ideas, the Macroscopic view is missing. Changing things that affect the Solo player is a slippery slope. I would say that there are probably more solo players than PVPers, or at least as strong of a voting block, and the solo player is a growing segment as the UO population decreases....it is just easier and more enjoyable to go 1v1 with a champ spawn, rather than to take a couple hours getting 3 people to agree on anything. Has any of you ever been on Catskills on a Sunday morning. With nothing to solo, you might as well quit.
-Reds should never be allowed in Trammel, that is the punishment for a murderer.....that punishment is well advertised....any reasonable request moving forward should not even include this as one of the recommendations.
-I don't have any issue with some super boss in Fel that can drop any artifact, sounds like a good enough idea. Might even be an avenue to include replicas of every possible artifact (even the conjurers garb)
And if you are upset with me only shooting down ideas and not providing any solutions...I am not here to enhance your gameplay...I am here to protect mine...
So I have asked this SEVERAL times to SEVERAL players and I still have not gotten an answer. How would allowing reds in Tram, so they can attack orange players only, harm your game play? If you are really wanting to "protect" your game play you have to show how something could hurt your game play.
I think you would be better to do it on a larger shard but just to to the gate and fight. Someone will take you in, get in vent, talk, laugh and learn. PvP is fun, PvM is fun but both rock better than only one. It's hard to really play the game alone.
Yup a few months ago my guild on GL helped a Tram guild that was giving factions a shot guard the base and steal sigils, even though we could care less about controlling faction towns.
It doesn't harm, but I think that a lot of people take offence (or something like that) to reds being in tram. Being red banishes you to fel and a lot of people take that as good punishment for being a PKer. I really don't see a need to bring my reds to tram at all. If factions (or some variation) made OJ's attackable on all shards, I can see the argument for reds coming over, but it really isn't a very good one.
For whatever reason (well, I know why, but still) red chars give a lot of people heartache. Let them live away from the PvP aspect of things if they want to. Who cares. If you need to, chase down the OJ with your blue faction dude.
I dunno about gate fighting... the gate gets pretty crazy with ganks and the like. Personally, I hate the gate. Stupid blue ganks, house shots, running crazyness! Naw, gimme a spawn or dungeon or good ol' drawn out fight in t2a or a an idoc! But yeah, most pvp guilds will help out those trying to learn.
Try to look for your home shard pvp guilds. The shard jumpers tend to be more snooty and not as helpful.
People want things like factions being fixed, order chaos, skills that make sense that aren't counted for the 300 combat point change, and things like soul glaves absurd damage and mystics cleansing winds that has 3 spells in one fixed for pvp. This would not ruin anything for the tram side. If you don't want to be orange to anyone no one would be forcing it. The real pvpers aren't looking for new items[I'm speaking for myself, though I wouldn't be surprised if others feel the same].
I think it's best to have things separate. I don't think any one facet should have everything. I do however see why people think fel should have a thing or two added since it's only received 2 spawns compared to the other 5 tram facets. I'm not suggesting anything extra be added, I'm pointing out what people are saying and I can see where they are coming from.
I don't think trammel monsters should be more difficult, however it may seem like some are but that's because they are only in tram so there is no equal in fel IE slasher ect.
I have never played everquest so I can't comment.
Everything I've talked about and listed does not change anything for the solo player.
I don't think reds should be in trammel, but again I can see why people are upset that they miss out on all the other facets and fel very rarely sees attention.
Again I think the last thing anyone should worry is adding more stuff when there are issues that will keep the UO busy for quite some time.
You can feel free to shoot down whatever you like, however most people like it when you provide substance. Everything I've suggested that most true pvper wants doesn't not spill over into trammel. Well with the exception of soul glaves, it might hit for 250 instead of 270. If anyone is complaining about that, it's laughable.
Spawns especially can be done on pvp necros with ease. It's more a matter of people wanting to go the easiest route with a sampire type char, but that is their choice to trade speed for the ability to fight off people.
Nothing I've suggested puts anything extra in fel. See above post to cover this point.
It wouldn't affect my gameplay, but that is not the point. There is a punishment for being a murderer, which is the point. If there is a problem in which murder counts are tallied, maybe that should be addressed. Maybe a "I PVP" button, where if you are killed you cannot report a murder.
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I greatly appreciate you playing nice. We don't need hatred but constructive criticism. Just from reading this thread you can see how different people are with their playstyles. This is a game we all play. We're like an extended family of UO. You sound like you enjoy solo pvm, Truth seems like the pvp only playstyle, and i'm also a solo player but i'd rather spent all my time in fel no matter if its pvm or pvp.
Of course you want to protect your gameplay. When nobody agrees on small changes everything is left up for grabs which might not please any of us at all.
Well according to your last post the point is to protect your game play so which is it?
In reality, by allowing reds to PvP in tram against people who consent will protect your game play. What would happen if all those "mean nasty PK's" get fed up with the lack of PvP and quit UO all together. Do you think your game play would remain the same if UO lost thousands of dollars of month in revune because all of the "mean nasty PK's" stopped paying?
Being red already has a LOT more "punishments" than you realize. Reds can't buy from NPC's, reds can't be healed, blessed, or even rezed in town, although rezing has gotten easier with the "red healers", it is still no where close to being easy to rez. Last night I died in destard when some heared all the GD's to the ramp. When I ran out to get a rez I ran past 4 blue healers before I found a red healer. There have been times when fighting broke out near shame and I have had to run all the way to Yew to find a red healer.
The map on the EC shows where the healers are. When my red dies in the middle of nowhere... I flip that on and run to the nearest. Even shows if their blue/red (by the name).
That's not a whole ton of pushiment either. Considering what reds do to blues.... well, getting rezed really isn't all that tough.
So. Something like this?
Not sure where the entrance would be. All occupants dopplegangers of the originals, dropping the same artifacts.
Not sure where the entrance would be. All occupants dopplegangers of the originals, dropping the same artifacts.
How about an entrance from the dead end just south of the spot marked F on here?
My gameplay includes not having to look at Reds walking around Trammel and I don't want that..ever. I won't be the only one either, you will find huge opposition in the community.
All the problems you have as a murderer...is because you're a murderer...Become a productive member of the UO society instead of a criminal, and all those problems go away. No pity here.
Continuing on you first point, my game play didn't make FEL, yours did. This is where a little understanding of UO history, would help in crafting argruments to propose changes. The Wild West PVP landscape of the 90's almost destroyed the game...they were shedding so many subscriptions a month, Origin absorbed the cost(no small matter for a software company) of creating an enitire PVP free mirrior world, and FEL was abandoned in droves...resulting in the FEL of today. Despite all the rantings of how wonderful PVP is, FEL has never come back and probably never will. As far as the subscription base goes, I don't believe UO can support any major loss of subscription base, hence why it is extremely difficult to institute major changes that affect the entire community...you just can't please everybody. So if the PVP community wants significant changes, they will have to make major sacrifices with no benefit, and hope for a larger return on investment. But since we are once again off topic, I will redirect...
1. If your red character really wants to redeem himself and become a productive member of Trammel, I am all for it. This should be an extremely difficult path and it should be 10x easier to delete the char...but you have the drive, there should be away to become a reformed citizen. The length should be based on your murder count...maybe a new boss in Fel, that when killed, has a chance to drop a timed, character specific gem, that when clicked...makes your character a purple hued reformed criminal that has all the rights in Trammel, with the exception of never being able to hold any sort of title. The chance of the drop should be extremely low to start (based on murder count) and goes up each time you defeat the boss, so eventually you can reach 100%. This should be allowed 1 time per character, and as long as you never commit any further murders, you can enjoy both facets. A single murder, and you are once again stuck in FEL. An active murderer should never be allowed in Trammel.
2. And here is where some of you will crap some puppies. This would be an investment hoping for a nice return....Make the Harrower a peerless room ruleset, where a group can work the Boss unmolested...And here is why....
a. You need to make the Champ Spawns more desirable, and no amount of DEV change will drive that...It is just not worth the 2hr investment to get it pulled out from under you at the end...However,
b. If it becomes a gauntlet of keys(the skulls) and you know, at the end of the PVP landscape, you have the Harrower free and clear...It would be worth the investment.
c. The skulls should have an "owned by" tag where only the owner can use them, and they can't be farmed and sold...so you more than likely need a group even to summon the Harrower.
d. Allow the Harrower to drop any replica in the game, to make him even more enticing....
I think that alone would stir up a lot of activity in FEL....I would even reduce the number of Champ spawn locations...and what has the PVP community lost...A Harrower which I don't think is done that often, so I would put the sacrifice as medium to low...and what have you gained...hopefully a significant increase in Champ Spawn activity...
^ I stopped reading when I got to what you claim made people leave fel.
Pk's didn't make anyone leave, fel was populated but slowly dwindled as terrible pvp changes kept being implemented time and time again.
You make it sound as though since 98 fel has been dead. It wasn't till a few years ago when they kept putting in bad change after bad change that fel experienced this.
I know that fel was booming as there are plenty of screen shots out there Multi-way fights where each guild could field over 40 people.
Pk's didn't make anyone leave, fel was populated but slowly dwindled as terrible pvp changes kept being implemented time and time again.
You make it sound as though since 98 fel has been dead. It wasn't till a few years ago when they kept putting in bad change after bad change that fel experienced this.
I know that fel was booming as there are plenty of screen shots out there Multi-way fights where each guild could field over 40 people.
Some of the best fights I've ever been in have been champs and harrowers.
That will not help anything for pvp, just takes away another venue. I like it because it's a champ that people can't rush the first form + tents can make things take a while especially under pressure. So all and all there's no reason to change those as it's the only thing fel has thats unique, and from a pvp stand point also.
That will not help anything for pvp, just takes away another venue. I like it because it's a champ that people can't rush the first form + tents can make things take a while especially under pressure. So all and all there's no reason to change those as it's the only thing fel has thats unique, and from a pvp stand point also.
It was just 5 years ago when i experienced shard wide fights with at least 150 people. Then it slowly declined, slowly declined, people quit when dog archers were out, people quit due to faction armor because they thought it was OP, people quit due to factions due to not being really good enough to keep rank. A LOT of people quit over the xplo pots. That was the most horrible time to ever pvp. Then spell plague, then not being able to kill mediocre players due to stone form and cleansing winds. Now throwers are the hot op thing. People quit because of the apple timer being shortened. People quit due to constantly adjusting. They're not like sampires or pvm tamers, they have to adjust skills/macros and practice what everything does.
swroberts i do agree with you on reds not being allowed into tram. That's why i'm pushing for Fel to have equal content. A reasonably priced token to wipe counts would generate some added revenue but an in game quest would reasonable.
The harrower idea i could live with with the exception of the skulls being owned and non tradeable. I do like the chance to drop any replica as well. (see you can be constructive!). I still like the idea of something on both rulesets that give a chance at any drop in game.
swroberts i do agree with you on reds not being allowed into tram. That's why i'm pushing for Fel to have equal content. A reasonably priced token to wipe counts would generate some added revenue but an in game quest would reasonable.
The harrower idea i could live with with the exception of the skulls being owned and non tradeable. I do like the chance to drop any replica as well. (see you can be constructive!). I still like the idea of something on both rulesets that give a chance at any drop in game.
You lost your argument at the start where you said: "...Become a productive member of the UO society instead of a criminal, and all those problems go away. No pity here."
I have a red or two, but i have many more blues that walk amoung you... So i guess im not a productive member of UO society?
Sad why to live your life i guess
I don't think swroberts has anything to do with PvP. And his views concerning reds are a little off. There are blues out there that are just as bad as the worst red you know, they just do it a little differently. But I digress...
I think his harry / peerless idea has some merit. At first I was like "No way! Harry's give the best fights!" But then, with 25 scrolls in short supply, people would have to spawn more productively to get the scrolls. But I do agree with you that it wouldn't really change pvp, but it might get more spawning guilds out into fel working the spawns in an attempt to take a raid free crack at the harry.
I just want to throw this out there.... think about what gets looted on a pvp kill. Aside from any scrolls (whatever people say, they still have value), trap boxes, pots, bolas, and to a lesser extent enhanced bandies get looted. Sooo, you can deduce that PvPers like to take what enables them to continue PvPing.
So, what if "the government" had a supply train that moved from marble down the road to delucia twice a day, say at 7 PM and 11 PM or something like that (times are rough, wouldn't be exactly the same time). The supply train (we'll call it a convoy) would have PvP supplies (in deed form, maybe 1000 of a couple types of pots, 100 trap boxes, 5000 enhanced bandies, 500 bolas, whatever), 1-5 mil in gold (checks), some imbuing ingredients (in 50-100 spots of each. Imagine getting 50 seeds of renewal, jackpot!) and other usable items. No arties, no power scrolls (though SOA and SOT would work well) so people would not mind getting their hands on the convoy. I know I would go for it with all that stuff over doing a spawn and maybe getting something useful.
Anyways, the convoy would have to be set up differently than the normal monsters. The guards would be Britannian knights or whatnot and they would have to be programed to 1) stay by the wagons of the convoy, and 2) fight PvP (not like a monster). I would have the knights in pairs or threes. Maybe 1 melee, 1 archer, 1 mage, working together (to include dismounts, disarms, and x-heals). They would all move at player speed, though not run off from the wagons. They would all be blue and would only target reds and/or criminals. When killed, the knights would issue murder counts just like players would. Blue players would be able to "sign up" for the guard and fight along side the knights against the raiding reds. Criminals and reds would not be eligable to sign up. Blues as part of the guard would not be able to attack any other members of the guard to include players or the knights.
I think that fights along the road there in T2A would get huge! Ambushes could be set, traps and bombs and all sorts of crazy could be there. Blues could try to patrol the area during the day as the reds look to set up the ambushes. Oh, and the road goes straight through a champ spawn that could be active to some point or another just to add a little bit more to the fight.
Well, I thought about that last night and I can't see why it would be a bad idea. I'm sure others will find many faults,but I think that it would really bring a lot of people to a fun series of PvP fights without any of the arty/power scroll hogging.
yes i agree. just because you are / or have a red doesnt mean you're not productive. many of the big time pvpers are some of the most productive active members of the community that I know. They just pvp. That's all.
Mr Roberts,
All of my larger counts were back in the days well before the last single most stupid addition that was added to the game, PARDONS. SWRoberts you have no idea how many blue people you see daily who should have had to burn off at least weeks worth of counts due to this "feature". As others have said there were many changes that hindered the game, IMO, pardons ranked right up there with the worst.
There were times when a person who played in Fel had to have a red char and thats were most of us got the thousands of counts. We effectivly lost chars to the "doom" of redness and you think it was fun and games(well it was but still). Unlike those people who ran off with thier tails between thier legs some people stood and fought which lead to the vengance and then the raids back and forth. Just because you wish to lump everyone who enjoys fel playstyle as a blood thirsty maniacal lunitics hell bent on killing you does not make it true. You missed the boat and are not really educated to speak about it, sorry.
All of my larger counts were back in the days well before the last single most stupid addition that was added to the game, PARDONS. SWRoberts you have no idea how many blue people you see daily who should have had to burn off at least weeks worth of counts due to this "feature". As others have said there were many changes that hindered the game, IMO, pardons ranked right up there with the worst.
There were times when a person who played in Fel had to have a red char and thats were most of us got the thousands of counts. We effectivly lost chars to the "doom" of redness and you think it was fun and games(well it was but still). Unlike those people who ran off with thier tails between thier legs some people stood and fought which lead to the vengance and then the raids back and forth. Just because you wish to lump everyone who enjoys fel playstyle as a blood thirsty maniacal lunitics hell bent on killing you does not make it true. You missed the boat and are not really educated to speak about it, sorry.
what if the Feluccan guilds did this, instead of NPCs? That's the way things used to work. I remember a fight for wrong valley. No prizes, no scrolls, just one guild holding the valley and the other trying to get through the pass to wrong. Just for the heck of it. Guilds used to make their own fights, they didn't rely on the devs to entertain them.
Each guild pick a night to make the trip with pack animals loaded with the goods. Guild A. guards the packies, tries to keep them alive and get the supplies through. Guild B tries to kill and loot the packies.
How about Minoc passage to Papua?
Ah, I loved those events. Best PvP event I attended was for control of Ocllo. It was Golgotha vrs ZOG (although I think there were more guilds involved). I don't know why people don't do this stuff anymore, it can even be done in tram. There seems to be some kind of taboo against PvP now days (fel excluded).
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But that is really the underlying problem with an item based game. If you don't already have everything, and everything worth having has some (probably rather inflated) price tag, then it makes little sense to do anything for "free", or to pursue an activity that does not provide monetary gain. Same problem with EM events, no matter how well crafted.
I miss the days guilds hung out and did stuff together because it was fun, and I have tried for three or four years now to figure out how we could incentivize this kind of behavior, but I haven't found anything yet that doesn't have some negative long term consequence.
And I would say that your Blue Characters are productive members of the UO society...and your Reds are not....
But I'm glad you think evrything is about you personally......and you want to talk about my sad life.....
Hmmm....educated huh...Well...I have been playing since '99, and never....I repeat Never....have I ever come across the path of a Red Char, who didn't attack me almost immediately, on any Character...crafter or fighter.....So I lump you in with the 13yrs of playing that I have experienced...It's the game and I live with, I solo a lot of champ spawns in FEL...when a red shows up I go do something else...but to hear the whining of how all this affects your gameplay, pisses me off....PK's have been affecting a lot gameplay for years.
And what I have to do with Pardons, I have no idea...feel free to write a note to Origin about that change because I don't give a ****. I live within the DEV's rulebook...PARDONS are in it, go bark up another tree.
So you just want the cake, eh?
I was speaking towards characters themselves, while in game, not the person behind the Characters.....an Apology to anyone who took it personally...
Don't get the reference... I don't know what the cake is.... Murderers are Murderers are Murderers....
If ORIGIN changes the reporting/Murder system, I make a note and move on.
Why would you just give up without a fight? It's amazing that you just accept defeat and move on. When Fel was the only land it was sink or swim. Considering you can make a pvp necro that can also spawn there should be no excuse for throwing in the towel. Alas that's your choice though, but also a problem that is yours and yours alone.
I don't like the idea of a raid free harrower as its one of those champs you can't rush and thus some of the best possible fights.
Next I think that idea would be like anything else where you would have people claiming its "luring" them into fel. You' have people that would give up becuase they think they can't win and then just exclaim that its yet another thing the reds/pvpers have on lock down.
It's not really a problem...I don't enjoy that type of play...i am in no way good at it, not interested in learning it, and are full PVM and not competitive anyway...
For some reason you have fooled yourself into believing that your way of play is the only path in this game..