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Would like to hear from the Fel players

TBH

Adventurer
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Quit WOW because Arena's killed world PvP, came back to UO and voila...Arena, sigh.

Arena would only be a good idea in UO if it was a special event that ran for a very limited time, a week or less. A random drop wouldn't hurt either as opposed to the grind for gear that WOW implemented. You would have participation for both bragging rights and the chance to get the random drop. Players could spend time training and gearing up in anticipation of the event. Maybe have the event coincide with the Rares-fest on your shard.

As far as pvp in general, a revamp of the towns might be the way to revitalize Fel. First thing that comes to mind is rewarding quests that involve travel or delivery of items from town to town or npc to npc that make sense in the game, like the fishing quest or pirate quests.

As for delivery quests, players could chose which side to play, the actual quester and protection entourage or the PKs that will prevent the quest's completion or even the thief that steals the item and delivers it to another waiting npc in an entirely different town. The reward increases in value with the more players that participated on either side. A potential reward could be the mounts of the npc entourage turn into tameable dread mares, or something similar, if the prerequisite number of combatants are present. The rewards should be very interesting and desirable for various playstyles.

Another quest type could run along the lines of assassinating an npc on behalf of another town or npc, players could be assassins or defenders with the target being a mini boss. These quests could kick in like the call to arms in tram despise. Players elect to participate when they log in and the event happens within the next 10-15 minutes and lasts for an hour or two. Other players could join at any time but a minimum number of players would be required to start the event. Once again the reward level would increase with the number of active participants on both sides. The target's difficulty would increase with the number of active defenders and the target would be very time consuming to solo.

You could even throw town loyalty into the mix where you have to earn the right to enter a town in Fel. You could still do whatever business you needed in tram but Fel towns would have a different set of rules. That way they become usable and interesting as opposed to just terrain where guards can be called on you.
 
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Lord Frodo

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I definently like this and could agree 100% but I see one issue. Power scrolls. Unless champs could only be done if the player was in order or chaos then there would be no issue. Funny how PS and trying to be fair to all sides always throws a wrench in the ideas.
Fair is Fair and Equal is Equal. If you want all for Fel then you have to give all for Tram or you have not changed a thing. A Lure is a Lure.
 

Zosimus

Grand Inquisitor
Alumni
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Fair is Fair and Equal is Equal. If you want all for Fel then you have to give all for Tram or you have not changed a thing. A Lure is a Lure.

Look I said I see one issue. Because I agree doesn't mean others will. I think you are reading way to much into it. I was expressing fairness


"Funny how PS and trying to be fair to all sides always throws a wrench in the ideas."
 

CovenantX

Crazed Zealot
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This is what I think....
Reds in trammel faucets can't attack or be attacked unless in war guild, O/C, or factions.
to be fair
Blues in fel can't attack or be attacked unless in war guild, O/C, or factions.
Keep all content the way it is.
I know some won't agree, but makes things even all around. this way no content will have to be moved
if blues couldn't be attacked in fel, how would one turn red?
 

Zosimus

Grand Inquisitor
Alumni
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Hehe I think you can turn red still by war guild, O/C, or faction. Thats how at least I took it.
 

Viper09

Grand Poobah
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Stratics Legend
Hehe I think you can turn red still by war guild, O/C, or faction. Thats how at least I took it.
No. In guild wars, O/C, factions, all enemies and guildmates can be freely attacked. They have to be, otherwise the entire premise of "warring" would have been meaningless.
 
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Speaking the Truth

Lore Keeper
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Stratics Legend
If you offered scrolls in every facet a lot of people would trade this no protection idea to spawn in tram.

I have an issue with power scrolls in tram. The tram facet has far more people scripting, this would just be yet another thing they could script and you couldn't stop them since you can't freely attack them. As it is they are never going to add lots of things to fel, and I'm sure they won't let reds in tram[even if they couldn't attack blues].

I'd much rather keep things divided as fel and tram I only see problems if you offer power scrolls in tram.

Why is there so much tram talk?

Also to everyone say you need rewards and to be lured to fel, if that were the case yew gate would be dead, so your argument is null and void since actions speak louder than words.

You didn't need a point to order and chaos other than kill the other one. This isn't factions I don't care about a town ect. I would be more than happy just to have lots of targets like the old order chaos and guild war days.

Things that ruin pvp are simple changes that have to do with templates and such, not rewards.

Lady Michelle i'm sorry but I don't see a point to tell if you can't attack whoever you want, its what makes it different from every other facet. Considering there is already 5 facets you can't be attacked in, I have to disagree with that.

@whoever said there should be a cap in damage, why should two players get punished for having a good sync dump?

The arenas are fine as they are, the biggest problem with them isn't even a problem with them. It's players egos and afraid of after talking sh*t that they'd have to go 1 on 1. The only thing that could be helpful is the gump being offered anywhere, but even then its not really a big deal considering there is more than one arena and its easy to throw a gate or recall to these locations.
 

Lythos-

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
A little unclear on what you mean by "protection scrolls". Are you talking about Skill and Stat Scrolls? Dropping the rate I can agree with but keeping them Fel only I can not agree with. One of the biggest complaints that you hear on these boards is the market is already flooded and they want another MAJOR game change item in Fel (IMHO to make up for the gold lost on the scrolls and to intice others into Fel.) Equal is equal. You can not have all for Fel without giving up all to Tram. Drop the drop rates on all highly desired items if you must but do it equally across both Fel and Tram. With the exception of drops that are so rare like Slither (I think that is the biggie item of UO now).
Ok, when you do a spawn you get 6 scrolls. Invoking the knight of justice virtue will give you a cursor and ask who you want to protect. They will also get 6 scrolls for NOT hitting the champ. That makes 12 scrolls per spawn. I'm not exactly sure what the Ilsh spawns are in terms of monsters but my personal best on a baracoon spawn solo is 12min. Drop rate now isn't all that great but if scrolls are added to tok and ilsh you can bet they'll be farmed day and night.
 

Lythos-

Lore Master
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Stratics Legend
If you offered scrolls in every facet a lot of people would trade this no protection idea to spawn in tram.

I have an issue with power scrolls in tram. The tram facet has far more people scripting, this would just be yet another thing they could script and you couldn't stop them since you can't freely attack them. As it is they are never going to add lots of things to fel, and I'm sure they won't let reds in tram[even if they couldn't attack blues].

I'd much rather keep things divided as fel and tram I only see problems if you offer power scrolls in tram.

Why is there so much tram talk?

Also to everyone say you need rewards and to be lured to fel, if that were the case yew gate would be dead, so your argument is null and void since actions speak louder than words.

You didn't need a point to order and chaos other than kill the other one. This isn't factions I don't care about a town ect. I would be more than happy just to have lots of targets like the old order chaos and guild war days.

Things that ruin pvp are simple changes that have to do with templates and such, not rewards.
I'd take a trade off of scrolls to be able to get the other content we were left out of in fel. Yeah in tram they would be farmed day and night.

I'm seeing more and more people speaking up for fel so maybe if we keep pushing diplomatically we can accomplish something fair for everyone. More fel content would mean more fel players.

You're partially right about the template changes. Something as simple as toggling weapon spec while casting killed the tank mage race. I believe the faction armor ruined pvp more than anything, then came xplo pot chucking, stone form-cleansing winds and throwers.
 

Winker

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
If you offered scrolls in every facet a lot of people would trade this no protection idea to spawn in tram.

I have an issue with power scrolls in tram. The tram facet has far more people scripting, this would just be yet another thing they could script and you couldn't stop them since you can't freely attack them. As it is they are never going to add lots of things to fel, and I'm sure they won't let reds in tram[even if they couldn't attack blues].

I'd much rather keep things divided as fel and tram I only see problems if you offer power scrolls in tram.

Why is there so much tram talk?

Also to everyone say you need rewards and to be lured to fel, if that were the case yew gate would be dead, so your argument is null and void since actions speak louder than words.

You didn't need a point to order and chaos other than kill the other one. This isn't factions I don't care about a town ect. I would be more than happy just to have lots of targets like the old order chaos and guild war days.

Things that ruin pvp are simple changes that have to do with templates and such, not rewards.

Lady Michelle i'm sorry but I don't see a point to tell if you can't attack whoever you want, its what makes it different from every other facet. Considering there is already 5 facets you can't be attacked in, I have to disagree with that.

@whoever said there should be a cap in damage, why should two players get punished for having a good sync dump?

The arenas are fine as they are, the biggest problem with them isn't even a problem with them. It's players egos and afraid of after talking sh*t that they'd have to go 1 on 1. The only thing that could be helpful is the gump being offered anywhere, but even then its not really a big deal considering there is more than one arena and its easy to throw a gate or recall to these locations.
Best post so far!

Totaly agree with the last part. I did an Arena fight lastnight. Won the fight then went on to trash talk the loser for a good hour after it. He was the one who started the trash talk and said he would kick my butt if we were in felucca. So i made him pay for a full hour of general chat trash talking. Thats why people wont and dont use areanas
 
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Orgional Farimir

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Stratics Legend
The reason I keep saying allow reds in O/C, factions, or a warring guild is for 2 reasons. The first reason I already posted in another thread is simply about time, and I will copy and paste it when I get home from work tonight. It takes a lot of time to unflag switch char and run to where ever the fight is in Tram. In PvP that time can be the difference between life and death.

The second reason is because not allowing reds in Tram forces duplicate characters. For example, I have 3 mages, a red necro, a red SDI mage and a blue mystic. My two redswent red defending and raiding champ spawns. I would LOVE to take my mystic to champ spawns, but I can't because if we were to get raided I would defend.the champ against all attackers, red or blue, thus turning my mystic red and making it so I can't have a mage in Tram. The only option is to use up another.char slot for a second mystic, which is not a good option and is redundant.
 
L

Linus SP

Guest
Speaking the Truth to reply to the question of "@whoever said there should be a cap in damage, why should two players get punished for having a good sync dump"

Putting in a damage cap within a time frame won't hurt the good two man sync.It just hurts the 3 man sync 4 man sync ect...
I mean how much damage can a 2 man sync do when they come up to you? Certainly not anything over 125-150 HP thus giving you the time to at least react and do something about it,But you can't even react when there's more than 2 player's syncing hailstorm's or ai's.
A cap on damage would just make it so you can at least survive and react if you have more than two player's on you.
 

EDA_GL

Journeyman
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Stratics Legend
Going along with the suggested idea of keeping reds out of tram and to piggyback off an earlier posted idea around this, I would like to offer my ideas.
Instead of wiping every murder count, what about putting Order/Chaos as a type of "crusade".
Crusade being a generic term that allows you to carry O/C banner to defend the name of said banner; since under a "crusade" you are not held for any indiscretions that you have previously committed
After all, you are fighting for your banners pride/town/good name/yada yada.
Should you/your guild want to change sides, you would have to wait 3 days to drop from your aligned banner. During the last randomly marked hour of you/your guild quitting. You would get a message stating that you have about an hour left to carry your banner. During this rough hour, you are exiled to Fel. Unable to recall/moongate into Tram. If you are red after this hour passes, all your previous counts are re-applied. If you are blue, you will just drop from O/C.

Possibly adding an in-game gump upon login to confirm/reject following your participation with guild/solo into O/C. Stating that you are freely attackable ANYWHERE by the opposing banner. Once per character.
 

Picus at the office

Certifiable
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To the people who want scrolls in tram I can only say wait for myself and every other person in the game to waltz in on your "hard worked" champ and bang at it all the time telling you there isn't a thing you can do about it. I have chars on many shards who, while not re-equiped since the faction nerf, are very effective at griefing this "enhancement".

You will miss the days of fel.
 

Speaking the Truth

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Speaking the Truth to reply to the question of "@whoever said there should be a cap in damage, why should two players get punished for having a good sync dump"

Putting in a damage cap within a time frame won't hurt the good two man sync.It just hurts the 3 man sync 4 man sync ect...
I mean how much damage can a 2 man sync do when they come up to you? Certainly not anything over 125-150 HP thus giving you the time to at least react and do something about it,But you can't even react when there's more than 2 player's syncing hailstorm's or ai's.
A cap on damage would just make it so you can at least survive and react if you have more than two player's on you.
If two players sync on someone they can kill them in that time frame in one combo, the problem is keeping someone on screen for 3 seconds.

If someone runs the second they see someone then it doesn't matter if they are running from 2 players or 4, in that case you can't sync at all.
 

Speaking the Truth

Lore Keeper
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Stratics Legend
The reason I keep saying allow reds in O/C, factions, or a warring guild is for 2 reasons. The first reason I already posted in another thread is simply about time, and I will copy and paste it when I get home from work tonight. It takes a lot of time to unflag switch char and run to where ever the fight is in Tram. In PvP that time can be the difference between life and death.

The second reason is because not allowing reds in Tram forces duplicate characters. For example, I have 3 mages, a red necro, a red SDI mage and a blue mystic. My two redswent red defending and raiding champ spawns. I would LOVE to take my mystic to champ spawns, but I can't because if we were to get raided I would defend.the champ against all attackers, red or blue, thus turning my mystic red and making it so I can't have a mage in Tram. The only option is to use up another.char slot for a second mystic, which is not a good option and is redundant.
You're making it sound like it would take 20 minutes to get into a fight. You should be able to get there in a matter of minutes, as in 2-3 if you're set up/prepared if you do nothing but pvp.
 
L

Linus SP

Guest
If two players sync on someone they can kill them in that time frame in one combo, the problem is keeping someone on screen for 3 seconds.

If someone runs the second they see someone then it doesn't matter if they are running from 2 players or 4, in that case you can't sync at all.
You are thinking like everyone's gonna auto run after first combo if it's a 1vs2,What if the one stay's? then will you're statemant hold true?
 
L

Linus SP

Guest
I don't think this would be for the best. The biggest problem i see revolves around getting ganked in factions and having to sit out for 20min (logged in as well, you can't even go play another character while the stat counts down)

I'm one of the biggest fel advocates around and im against this as well BUT the only talk was that nobody would be attacked if they did allow this. I don't see it as a reason to quit over unless you're looking for a way out.
Ya i think faction stat loss should be reduce to 5-7 mins also.
 

Speaking the Truth

Lore Keeper
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If someone holds still they would die from two spells from two players. Syncing is very underrated and underestimated on the damage.
 
L

Linus SP

Guest
If someone holds still they would die from two spells from two players. Syncing is very underrated and underestimated on the damage.
What kind of combo you guy's doing sir! 2 hailstorm's at most do 80-90 perhap's? 2 ai's plus hit lightning total damage of 100 perhaps?
Exp hail storm? The second some two guy's running up to you andhave hailstorm in the casting,first intinct is to survive the intial damage of precasted EXplosion,so one would run and survive.
 

Grace of Minoc

Sage
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UNLEASHED
This is what would get me back to explore Felluca:

PvP is just that "player vs player" if I am already injured, either by a player or a monster, I cannot be attacked by an additional player. Think of how you
cannot "honor" a monster that is injured. The code is in there somewhere. If your injury is due to a stat boost then this does not apply.

Once engaged in a player vs player no outside players can get involved in anyway.

However, if you are in a war guild, factions, etc this will not work. Then it is indeed war.

This would get this solo, mainly pvm char but with some pvp defense and offense a chance in hades to survive
an attack by a single murderer.

It may make it so others would have a non guilded etc, alt to try their hand at single player v player and hey,
they might then get more into war guilds etc.

As for a zerg guild worried about a single pvm'r trying to hunt in fel, well send out a single murderer scout to your spots, get your
best player in there to protect your area :)
 

Speaking the Truth

Lore Keeper
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Stratics Legend
What kind of combo you guy's doing sir! 2 hailstorm's at most do 80-90 perhap's? 2 ai's plus hit lightning total damage of 100 perhaps?
Exp hail storm? The second some two guy's running up to you andhave hailstorm in the casting,first intinct is to survive the intial damage of precasted EXplosion,so one would run and survive.
Well you can't combo if you're starting with instant cast spells. However that's my point its not that two players can't do enough damage, it's that no one stays on screen for more than a second.
 

Merus

Crazed Zealot
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UNLEASHED
On the topic of arenas, I would love to see some expanded rule set options and the ability to handle tournies...

Would be fun for guilds who like to have pvp nights to use the arenas to set up the rules and trace the brackets.
 

Lady Michelle

Sprite Full SP
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if blues couldn't be attacked in fel, how would one turn red?
Even my simple solution of making things even isn't even the answer. I knew there was flaws, and I wanted others to point them out. Which they did, but seriously LOL I didn't factor this one in.
 

Orgional Farimir

Lore Keeper
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You're making it sound like it would take 20 minutes to get into a fight. You should be able to get there in a matter of minutes, as in 2-3 if you're set up/prepared if you do nothing but pvp.
Auctually it is about 8 minutes, compaired to 4 minutes. In a 1 v 2 or 3 that 4 minute difference is huge.
 
L

Linus SP

Guest
Correct ,that's why if they know there's a cap on damage,and a chance to survive intial damage,they just might stick around.... who know's.
 

Winker

Babbling Loonie
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Thats the point even 1v1 they run when some one attacks them. Thats why people get ganked so much. They are just going to run if they can. Blues come out of the GZ at yew just keep running back in when they get attacked 1v1. So to stop them making it back into GZ they get ganked...Job done! This is just one example of why ganking should not be nefed with a dammage cap.
 
L

Linus SP

Guest
Do you expect everyone to be the same? some run,some stay...There need's to be a balance,not a one way street.
Maybe pvp will be more spreadout if the damage cap is applied? No one know's.
 
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Zosimus

Grand Inquisitor
Alumni
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What this thread has raised so far is:


We know luring players to fel isn't wanted by both sides.

Order vs Chaos original system is wanted.

There is issues with use of Arenas of not being really used.

Reds should be allowed in all facets but with limits if I am correct?

PS debate still the same after all these years.



If I missed anything please add it to the post below so I can keep a record of things we can ask the developers about. Please continue the discussion on the topic so we can add new information :)
 

Speaking the Truth

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Correct ,that's why if they know there's a cap on damage,and a chance to survive intial damage,they just might stick around.... who know's.
Just makes it more difficult for the two players that can sync well instead of the zerg since it would be capped. That doesn't promote small group pvp at all.
 
L

Linus SP

Guest
How would it make it harder for two player's to kill? Are You saying You can do more damage when damage cap isn't in placed? I.E,now? If so please tell me how?.
 
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Lythos-

Lore Master
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Stratics Legend
What this thread has raised so far is:


We know luring players to fel isn't wanted by both sides.

Order vs Chaos original system is wanted.

Reds should be allowed in all facets but with limits if I am correct?

If I missed anything please add it to the post below so I can keep a record of things we can ask the developers about. Please continue the discussion on the topic so we can add new information :)
There shouldn't be any luring period. Either you come or you don't. That doesn't mean Fel should be left out with content/items already available in tram rulesets. It's like they think all we want to do is fight over champs and that isn't the case.

Original Order/Chaos is wanted. I've suggested multiple times a kill-death counter like on Test Center would be a nice addition.

I'd rather have equal content and leave the reds where they are.

Other things i would like to see are:
1: toggle specs for mages while casting again
2: evasion revert to wep skill + bush skill
3: deathstrike revert no longer tied into hiding/stealth
4: AI cap increased

What would these changes mean? No more cookie cutter flavor of the month templates. This is Ultima Online, where you can be anything you want, except if you want to win a pvp battle.
 
L

Linus SP

Guest
This all sound's great,but if there's nothing to be capped, doesn't that make everything come back to the orginal problem of not being able to defend one self?, if more than two player's come's on screen is it an auto " let's give up because "we won't" stand a chance?.
 
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Speaking the Truth

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How would it make it harder for two player's to kill? Are You saying You can do more damage when damage cap isn't in placed? I.E,now? If so please tell me how?.
What you don't understand is you're nerfing those who play in small groups. In most cases the better players will play in small groups because they have better team work. By limiting the damage you're making it so that the small group can only do 80 damage in x amount of time or whatever arbitrary numbers you were using. So it would be easy to cross heal since you cap the damage and they hit a wall.

Small groups would not be able to compete if their damage is capped. You can win 4v8, it's not unheard of at all. With your system however that would and should never be the case. It's a bad idea.
 
L

Linus SP

Guest
What do you mean by "small group's"? By that do you mean more than "two"? If so?, no one stand's a chance to live if more than two player's dump on them.

So all in all is it really a nerf?.

By limiting the cap, it give's the one or two person a chance to survive and fight back.
If you don't want someone to fight back that's not pvp at all that's pking, and we all know how many sheep's and wolve's there are in this 15 year old game of our's.
 
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Speaking the Truth

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By small group I just told you 4 vs 8 or 2 vs 4.

Any time you limit the damage you're hurting the smaller side.

It's a horrible idea. I don't know what you don't get. When you limit the damage the smaller group can only do so much and while they wait till they can do damage the big group is free to heal.
 
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L

Linus SP

Guest
So you are saying you can do better without limitation's when it's 4vs 8 or 2vs4?,but you can't do that right now when there's no limittaion's?,

What's the difference between no cap's right now/ cap's later on? you still have no answer mny question.
 

Speaking the Truth

Lore Keeper
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Stratics Legend
What part are you getting stumped on?

If you put on caps, the smaller side will NEVER win. As I said since you want to cap the amount of damage that takes place the bigger group will be able to heal when the small group hits the damage cap as they wait to do more damage according to you.

They can win now because there are no caps so as long as their team work is better they can do enough damage and keep moving.

It's a horrible idea, and it's easy to understand what i'm saying. There's a reason no one else is jumping in giving you kudos for the best idea ever. They can't all be winners, so do yourself a favor and stop pushing this terrible idea.
 
L

Linus SP

Guest
I'm not pushing any idea's.

Like i said in the above post,are you saying you can do better with out limitation's? Are there any restiction's in place right now
? is it better right now then "if i put in cap's for damage next publish?".
 
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Speaking the Truth

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This all sound's great,but if there's nothing to be capped, doesn't that make everything come back to the orginal problem of not being able to defend one self?, if more than two player's come's on screen is it an auto " let's give up because "we won't" stand a chance?.
There is the root of your problem, if you think you're going to lose and want to give up before its over that's on you.
 

Speaking the Truth

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Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I'm not pushing any idea's.

Like i said in the above post,are you saying you can do better with out limitation's? Are there any restiction's in place right now
? is it better right now then "if i put in cap's for damage next publish?".
I've told you every single time.

I've told you the same reason 3x now.
 
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Picus of Napa

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This all sound's great,but if there's nothing to be capped, doesn't that make everything come back to the orginal problem of not being able to defend one self?, if more than two player's come's on screen is it an auto " let's give up because "we won't" stand a chance?.
I've given up on these threads but really why would one give up because the odds are slightly against you? There is always a weak link in every group and that person can and should die leaving you much less to worry about. If you have never won a 2/3v1 fight then you really should get back to the drawing board and start again.
 

Lady Michelle

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Most run as soon as curse is cast on them never mind anything else.
Its a knee jerk reaction when your endanger to run its survival. Real life would you stay, and let some one off you if you had the chance to get away? Heck no
Its easy to die in fel to survive is the hardest.
 

Speaking the Truth

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Its a knee jerk reaction when your endanger to run its survival. Real life would you stay, and let some one off you if you had the chance to get away? Heck no
Its easy to die in fel to survive is the hardest.
His point was that people run at curse[0 damage done to them] alone. He wasn't talking about redlined ect.
 
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Winker

Babbling Loonie
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Stratics Legend
What do you mean by "small group's"? By that do you mean more than "two"? If so?, no one stand's a chance to live if more than two player's dump on them.

So all in all is it really a nerf?.

By limiting the cap, it give's the one or two person a chance to survive and fight back.
If you don't want someone to fight back that's not pvp at all that's pking, and we all know how many sheep's and wolve's there are in this 15 year old game of our's.
I have been in fighs with 6 people dumping on me and survived. I have even killed 2 before i die. You need to get out and learn to PvP.

I enjoy going into a champ to find 3 people doing a champ and kill them on my own. thats 3v1 and i still win. So what you want is only good for you as you dont PvP. But for thouse who do it day in day out, get nerfed as you cant survive. Kinda one sided ehh?
 

swroberts

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Instead of just doubling resources for blue players, can you make a timer of 15 to 30 seconds before they can recall, ect ect, after gathering those resources? There is no risk if they can easily escape.
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Jesus, can we get away from the ....it is too easy for the Blues to escape threads....how do we get more lambs into FEL thread....FEL is dying how do we stop it thread....

NOTE 1: Majority of UO hates PVP

FEL is dead because PVP made it so...See NOTE 1
Blues try to escape because they do not want to PVP...See NOTE 1
Murders can't leave FEL because they are murderers and have lost that right because they murder, DEV's don't provide dual content...SEE NOTE: 1
If you want to PVP freely move to Siege...oh wait...Siege is dead because...SEE NOTE: 1

As a full on PVP hater, I have trouble understanding why if it is sooo dammm great, you people can't get organized and kill each other...

Instead, there is thread after thread after thread of how we can lure lambs to FEL and prevent them from leaving...with a bunch of you somehow believing that "it's not about luring lambs in but revitalizing PVP"...well from someone who was around since '99, 95% of PVP has ALWAYS been about killing PVM based players... and that is all these threads are trying to revitalize.

This is another ridiculous thread...
 
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