Would like to hear from the Fel players

[Zosimus]

I wanted to take the opportunity since many Fel topics have been brought up of late to gather some information and questions. I want this thread to be civil and constructive and anybody can freely ask any question or add or give opinions on to anothers questions. You can freely discuss ideas from others and I will put a reminder be constructive. It's ok to disagree but trolling will not be tolerated.


Now remember these are just questions and discussions. I am by far perfect so sometimes I do things on the fly. Hopefully this thread will get some great ideas where they can be submitted for questions.


My questions below

Arenas:

Are they being used on your shard( Insert your shard) hardly, quite a bit, all the time?


Any ideas to get more people to try them out?


Is there something that Arenas are missing or needed to imrove on?


Champ Spawns

Is it time to do something new with them or keep them the same way?


Should PS be added to something else in fel than just champ spawns? Maybe add a slight % of getting 105's or 110's to dungeons mobs as loot ?


Add a mini champ spawn that can spawn in random places at different times in a fel that will only give 4 PS? Let me expand on this a little bit. Its random meaning it can spawn anywhere. It has a timer but it's a small spawn and does not need to be started by anybody. 3 levels and a small champ boss. The times are random also so they can't be camped. This gives blues a chance to roam around find these random spots and also gives reds a chance to find them. Entices the hunt so to speak.


Random questions


Instead of just doubling resources for blue players, can you make a timer of 15 to 30 seconds before they can recall, ect ect, after gathering those resources? There is no risk if they can easily escape.


If Order and Chaos is implemented, will there be a new art of armor added for it only? Notice how I said art not stats. Just more of a unique look than the existing armor so to speak.


If possible could fel resources be sperate than tram resources and gets a better % success rate at crafting?


I may be asking the dumb or wrong questions but I wanted to throw this thread out and hear from the players. Ask away, discuss, add your own input and be constructive.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

I'll take a couple of the Random Questions as they kind of go together:

Instead of just doubling resources for blue players, can you make a timer of 15 to 30 seconds before they can recall, ect ect, after gathering those resources? There is no risk if they can easily escape.

If possible could fel resources be separate than tram resources and gets a better % success rate at crafting?

As resource gathering (specifically mining) is the one thing I do in Fel, the first idea won't mean any difference to me as I take care to mine in specifically safe locations... not "marginally safe' by means of simply being "out of the way", but completely safe with a good mix of ores to work with (quantities vary based on the RNG and respawns). Because of this, the second idea kind of falls flat. Seems pointless to make the Fel resources different in such ways when it's easy to gather them in complete safety.

Personally, even though it would be a BIG loss for my miner, I'd be more in favor of ditching doubled resources in Fel. Much like the Luck property, I think reality goes against the concept involved (in both cases being "risk vs reward").

Not that there shouldn't be rewards for PvP, however I don't think doubled resources or special resources in general would be "working as intended".

 

[Orgional Farimir]

I wanted to take the opportunity since many Fel topics have been brought up of late to gather some information and questions. I want this thread to be civil and constructive and anybody can freely ask any question or add or give opinions on to anothers questions. You can freely discuss ideas from others and I will put a reminder be constructive. It's ok to disagree but trolling will not be tolerated.


Now remember these are just questions and discussions. I am by far perfect so sometimes I do things on the fly. Hopefully this thread will get some great ideas where they can be submitted for questions.


My questions below

Arenas:

Are they being used on your shard( Insert your shard) hardly, quite a bit, all the time?


Any ideas to get more people to try them out?


Is there something that Arenas are missing or needed to imrove on?


Champ Spawns

Is it time to do something new with them or keep them the same way?


Should PS be added to something else in fel than just champ spawns? Maybe add a slight % of getting 105's or 110's to dungeons mobs as loot ?


Add a mini champ spawn that can spawn in random places at different times in a fel that will only give 4 PS? Let me expand on this a little bit. Its random meaning it can spawn anywhere. It has a timer but it's a small spawn and does not need to be started by anybody. 3 levels and a small champ boss. The times are random also so they can't be camped. This gives blues a chance to roam around find these random spots and also gives reds a chance to find them. Entices the hunt so to speak.


Random questions


Instead of just doubling resources for blue players, can you make a timer of 15 to 30 seconds before they can recall, ect ect, after gathering those resources? There is no risk if they can easily escape.


If Order and Chaos is implemented, will there be a new art of armor added for it only? Notice how I said art not stats. Just more of a unique look than the existing armor so to speak.


If possible could fel resources be sperate than tram resources and gets a better % success rate at crafting?


I may be asking the dumb or wrong questions but I wanted to throw this thread out and hear from the players. Ask away, discuss, add your own input and be constructive.

It isn't Fel that is broken it is PvP that is broken. Yes there needs to be a "carrot" to get people to PvP, but that doesn't have to be an item, but a goal.

The arena's are hardly ever used on my shard. The last time my guild used them it was a good time, for about 5 minutes and then doing any group fights got old when every mage just targeted the same player at the start and dropped him in 1/5 of a second.

What I would like to see is sweeping changes in PvP as a whole. I won't go into the "nerf this temp" debate, but instead the PvP area's.

First off, and I know this will get flammed, allow reds into Tram. I have yet to see one comment as to how doing this would harm the tram players. If anything it would help the tram players since the UO population as a whole is dropping it would get more players in Tram. The reason I am saying let reds into Tram is NOT for PvM, but for PvP sakes. Factions, O/C (if they bring it back) and guild wars all need to have PvP in Tram to work. In order for those 3 to be a fair fight for both red and blue guilds it needs to be a level playing field across all facets. They also need to make it so reds can be x healed in GZ, and fields and AOE's work in GZ against the flagged players.

When it comes to factions they either need to allow fighting in Tram or remove factions from the game all together. My vote is for removing them from UO.

When they remove factions they need to replace it with O/C and allow fighting across all facets. Maybe if Tram players see PvP it might "entice" them to give PvP a shot. As I have stated before %90 of PvPers are successful adults who are bankers, lawyers, teachers, doctors, nurses, and other productive members of society. Because of this if Tram players see PvP in Tram and talk to one of the PvPers, usually we would be more than happy to help them out. Sadly the "vocal minority" of PvPers have cast the majority of PvPers in a bad light.

Now for the "carrot" to PvP. There needs to be a MAJOR revision of guild wars. Once the Dev's remove factions from UO take a few of the factions towns and then a few of the smaller towns in Fel and allow guilds to "claim the towns". If a guild claims a town(s) they have a 5 hour window they have to defend the town(s) from attackers, between the hours of 10:00 A.M.-1:00 A.M shard time. The reason for the time restriction is to keep a guild from claiming a town in the middle of a night when no one is on. A guild can attack the town by declairing war on the guild who claims the town. When this happens everyone in both guild appears orange and can be attacked in any facet. At the end of the 5 hours the guild with the most kills wins. If the defending guild wins they can hold the town for 2 days. If the attacking guild wins they can choose to claim the town and defend it for 5 hours, or after 1 hour of the guild not claiming it, any guild can lay claim to the town. Of course there would be benifits for holding a town, such as payment for holding office, reduced prices for products in that town, a guild hall, a guild supply shop where you can buy imbuing ingreds, and so on. But once again if they allow this they need to allow reds in Tram to fight orange players, AOE's and field spells to work in GZ and reds to be able to be Xhealed in GZ.



****Edit**** I think the 15 second recall timer to increase "risk in Fel is a bad idea. Most PvPers don't want more "sheep" in Fel that are easier to kill, we want more PvPers in Fel. It use to pay off to kill miners because resources were hard to get, not it isn't. Personally if I see someone mining in Fel I leave them alone, if they respond to me.

 

[kelmo]

*smiles* Interesting ideas there Farimir.

 

[Orgional Farimir]

*smiles* Interesting ideas there Farimir.

It is the same thing I have been saying for 9 months now, nothing new. Maybe posting it for the 500th time will get the Devs attention.

On a side note I know that post is hard to follow since I was just typing as it came to mind, but I had a long day at work and I wasn't going to spend 45 minutes creating a post for the Devs to ignore it for the 500th time.

 

[Lythos-]

My questions below

Arenas:

Are they being used on your shard( Insert your shard) hardly, quite a bit, all the time? Hardly


Any ideas to get more people to try them out? Too laggy imo and with the "i never die ego" of today's pvpers it's hard for people to accept a public testament they lost.


Is there something that Arenas are missing or needed to imrove on? I don't see the need for them at all personally.


Champ Spawns

Is it time to do something new with them or keep them the same way? Change them up! Randomize creatures for every level. May have a rat on 1st level, spiders on 2nd and dragons on 3rd. You get the idea. DO NOT make them harder.

Should PS be added to something else in fel than just champ spawns? Maybe add a slight % of getting 105's or 110's to dungeons mobs as loot ? Add in Ilsh spawns but kill the protection scrolls in Ilsh and slight decrease the drop rate.


Add a mini champ spawn that can spawn in random places at different times in a fel that will only give 4 PS? Let me expand on this a little bit. Its random meaning it can spawn anywhere. It has a timer but it's a small spawn and does not need to be started by anybody. 3 levels and a small champ boss. The times are random also so they can't be camped. This gives blues a chance to roam around find these random spots and also gives reds a chance to find them. Entices the hunt so to speak.

I suggested this idea to Sak (when she was working there) for fel dungeons and we got Despise revamp, Wrong, Shame and Cove. If you see the new harrower idea from Galen (i think), i believe his idea would be SO much better. How bout a mini boss that randomly visits a town in which it's broadcasted so everyone can get a chance at it. Loot could be anything from a Doom arty to a 120 scroll to a


Random questions


Instead of just doubling resources for blue players, can you make a timer of 15 to 30 seconds before they can recall, ect ect, after gathering those resources? There is no risk if they can easily escape. Nah leave it. That would just invoke griefers to hunt gatherers.


If Order and Chaos is implemented, will there be a new art of armor added for it only? Notice how I said art not stats. Just more of a unique look than the existing armor so to speak. I hope not. I want it ORIGINAL.


If possible could fel resources be sperate than tram resources and gets a better % success rate at crafting? Too much work.

I answered everything inside the box.

 

[cazador]

Arenas aren't used hardly anymore they would be used more if a [duel command was put in and you target the person you want to challenge and they can toggle accepting duel challenges so it pops up and asks if u accept and the transports u into an open arena they afterwards you are teleported back full life back to the original spot of the invitation maybe a global announcement system A is dueling B in a standard ruleset duel to the death..then a global winner..A has defeated B..and for god sake make it able to duel for more then 50k maybe cap it at 10mil

 

[Lord Frodo]

I have heard it many many times that PvP was the End-Game in UO, so why does PvP have to have incentives?

I thought Player V Player (ie Skill V Skill) would be enough in itself but so far UO has attempted to lure people to Fel with little success.

Putting rewards with a spawn to attract players was and still is a bad idea. All you get is a group of PvMers doing a spawn and PvPers raiding them. It has been stated many times that PvM and PvP are 2 different play styles and having PvPers attacking PvMers IS NOT PvP.

SP IMHO is the place to go if you really want PvP because most people are using GM gear so it really is Skill V Skill.
Sp needs to be changed

• Same amount of Char Slots as Prodo Shards.
• 2nd house. If Sp is your main shard then you may have a Castle or Keep. If it is not then the largest you may have is an 18x18. Just a little incentive for the SP players only for supporting thier shard for so long.

Areans
Make a PvP leader board that shows # of wins and loses and when you click a players name you can view the players he/she has battled and the results.

Chaos v Order YES but no added gear and they can go anywhere and are free to attack anybody on the other side. The only thing that I would ask is they show respect at events and keep the fighting elsewhere.
With Chaos/Order you could even go so far as making it the Fel Rule Set only and make all the lands the same and with this you remove the dbl resources from Fel and now any player can do any spawn and if they need the extra thrill then do it while in Chaos/Order so you can be attacked anywhere.

 

[CovenantX]

hrmm...

Just on champ spawns... IMO, they should NOT be solo-able, 2-5+ people should be ideal for a spawn imo. (anti-sampire mobs are most definitely needed, especially Some bosses).

The rewards should be shard-specific and NOT transfer-able. If you transfer a character that used a spawn-drop (consumable) it is Removed from the character, and you should need to get another one on the shard you transferred too. (to prevent people from farming dead shards and further devaluing all the rewards for pvpers to fight over.)


... oh...
Hopefully "Derp-Mode" is removed from Barracoon, so he'd actually chase after someone, Instead of stand there and let you kill him. Better yet, make him chase you with a heavy crossbow and dismount with every shot at covetous-lvl4-mob-speed.

 

[CovenantX]

I have heard it many many times that PvP was the End-Game in UO, so why does PvP have to have incentives?

Pvp needs incentives for the same reason Trammel needs them... to keep us playing/paying..... Obviously.

 

[MissEcho]

Instead of just doubling resources for blue players, can you make a timer of 15 to 30 seconds before they can recall, ect ect, after gathering those resources? There is no risk if they can easily escape.

No, any pvp'er worth anything will paralyze and attack before 95% of gatherers can actually escape. Why cater to the really bad pk'er? The Blue player risk is gathering in fel as opposed to the no risk for the pk'er. The pvp/pker already has the advantage of attacking a character with very little to no pvp skill, nor most even having a weapon equipped. Any timer would have to apply to ALL characters, including reds/pvper etc. Although to my mind this is just a way of allowing really badly skilled pk'ers another bonus when not actually attacking character that can actually fight back.

If possible could fel resources be sperate than tram resources and gets a better % success rate at crafting?

Not sure of the intent/meaning with this.

1. If I take 'fel' resources to tram do you mean they 'craft' better % and 'stack' differently to tram resources, being that they are a fel resource? As long as all crafter benefit I don't see a problem.
Or do you mean
2. FEL players get a better % chance when crafting with fel resources in fel?
Or do you mean
3. RED fel crafters get a better % chance when crafting in Fel?

If you mean #2 or #3 then NO. Why?:
1. That only benefits those who have houses in FEL irrespective of whether they are blue or red. Lots of people live in Fel due to housing constraints, not that they pvp etc.
2. RED crafters should enjoy no more % chance of crafting. Murderers should not benefit above true merchants and crafters. Any 'true' crafter that is red has probably spent an hour or so killing a guildy to turn red anyways. Why should those who choose to be killers benefit just because they 'elect' to be evil.

Sorry, just tired of reading posts that basically do NOTHING to actually assist pvp, but basically aim to grant the smallest % of players bonus's above those who elect NOT to murder others or worse, give them bonus's to just lure others into a play style they don't want to participate in. Fact is, if people wish to PVP against worthy opponents, they can, most elect to just prey on those who they have little risk against.

If you must spend hours of work catering to the minority then look at implementing things that ONLY pvp'ers will want or benefit from, quit trying to LURE blues just for easy kills with items only available in Fel. All this does is continually split the player base. Forcing people into a play style they don't want to pander to a few.

If you listen to most interested in PVP it is the thrill of the 'kill' and the 'challenge' that is the reason they do it, yet you continually hear, 'give' us this special item, or 'that' special item only in 'fel' so that it is 'fairer' etc which goes completely against the thrill and challenge if you only need 'items' to make it better.

 

[Lord Frodo]

Pvp needs incentives for the same reason Trammel needs them... to keep us playing/paying..... Obviously.

Sorry but it is not obvious. Isn't PvP about you pitting your SKILLS against another players SKILLS? Your incentive is proving who is the best of the best? If you wish to place a side bet than good, go for it.

 

[Orgional Farimir]

Sorry but it is not obvious. Isn't PvP about you pitting your SKILLS against another players SKILLS? Your incentive is proving who is the best of the best? If you wish to place a side bet than good, go for it.

WRONG WRONG WRONG. If that was the case Yew gate PvP would be hopping. Sadly some people think it is, but in reality it is the place of last resort for PvP. As Cetric said in another thread, "PvP is like capture the flag". Everything a person does, in game and in RL, has some sort of "incentive" in place.

 

[Lord Frodo]

I wanted to take the opportunity since many Fel topics have been brought up of late to gather some information and questions. I want this thread to be civil and constructive and anybody can freely ask any question or add or give opinions on to anothers questions. You can freely discuss ideas from others and I will put a reminder be constructive. It's ok to disagree but trolling will not be tolerated.

Your title should read "Would like to hear from all UO players about Fel. Please understand that what happens in Fel affects all UO players not just Fel players.

 

[Lord Frodo]

WRONG WRONG WRONG. If that was the case Yew gate PvP would be hopping. Sadly some people think it is, but in reality it is the place of last resort for PvP. As Cetric said in another thread, "PvP is like capture the flag". Everything a person does, in game and in RL, has some sort of "incentive" in place.

So being the best of the best is not incentive enough? Yew Gate is not a good example because guards are often called upon to kill the Reds by Blues. True PvP needs to be in a place where outside interference can be controlled.

 

[Zosimus]

Ok the reason why I said Fel players only because some feel they have not been heard by the devs and are left in the dust.

Second, I said constructively and removed a post already.


Let me address some of my post. I am one against leading sheep to the wolves but I added questions like that to see what others felt like so the devs can listen to what player are wanting. Which i feel we all agree that luring just doesn't work.




@miss echo: I did mean number 1 to your response. I apologize I wasn't clear on that.


@ConvenantX : some really great ideas on the champ spawns.


Lythos: Liked your answers and ideas


@Orginal Farimir Great suggestions. I agree with the issue there has to be a reason to pvp. I have stated that myself in other posts and cant agree more


Lord Frodo: I agree that Order/Chaos should be on all facets. Time will tell what the developers are up to though on that if it does happen.

 

[Lythos-]

hrmm...

Just on champ spawns... IMO, they should NOT be solo-able, 2-5+ people should be ideal for a spawn imo. (anti-sampire mobs are most definitely needed, especially Some bosses).

The rewards should be shard-specific and NOT transfer-able. If you transfer a character that used a spawn-drop (consumable) it is Removed from the character, and you should need to get another one on the shard you transferred too. (to prevent people from farming dead shards and further devaluing all the rewards for pvpers to fight over.)


... oh...
Hopefully "Derp-Mode" is removed from Barracoon, so he'd actually chase after someone, Instead of stand there and let you kill him. Better yet, make him chase you with a heavy crossbow and dismount with every shot at covetous-lvl4-mob-speed.

I donno anymore. I've seen people solo harrowers with ease and with that vid of the guy soloing the slasher i'm not quite sure they need to make it even harder. Take in mind the Shame changes and how beefed up some of the things are. I think switching it up some so the levels are different or even having random mobs spawn at the same time within levels would work.

I definately agree with the other things you posted. What happens on Hokuto, stays on Hokuto

 

[Linus SP]

Hi everyone,i just want to put in my concern's about pvp.
I personally hate being ganked! in pvp, i'm sure i'm not the only one.
My solution to this problem in pvp is to have a timer on damage taken in a certain amount of time,I.E any damage over 70-80 hp in something like 3-5 seconds? whatever(dev's can work out the specific's) will be absorbed and do no damage at all if the person has 120 resist.


The reason for this is so that people have a chance to live if smaller guild's/solo player's encounter bigger guild's.
For example in a 1vs2 situation the one person actually has a chance to live/maybe win if the two person trying to gank the solo player are mediocre player's,Same goe's for 2vs4/4vs8 ect... And in a 10vs1 encounter it give's the one person a chance to get away too! instead of seeing 10 hailstorm's/armour ignore's at once and no chance of living/getting away.

Plus this idea give's solo player's another option in pvp instead of dueling or can only pvp if it's a 1vs1 ,Cause we all know that will get boring real fast and when someone get's bored or ganked constantly they wont pvp much or even quit pvping as a whole.


Furthermore it reduce's the need for bigger guild's,giving smaller guild's a chance to defend /raid people at champ's ,ect...
And more smaller guild's can be formed,Reducing the need to feel like you need to join bigger guild's to have a chance in fel.

 

[Varrius]

The arenas were fun when they were on test and could fight people from every shard. Being on prodo shards and strictly fighting people on those shards.. meh.

 

[Winker]

A gate on each shard that leads to a Dungeon, lets just call it Despsie for the sake of the topic. This would be on shard which everyone from all the shards would go to once they step through the gate. A new type of champ spawn of moderate difficulty with new drops. Maybe it could drop 3-4 good replicas each time. Once you die you get teleported back to your own shard, and you can come back through the gate once you get resed up and restocked. Once the champ is dead you go back to a moongate to get your loot back to your own shard.


This would give us Multi shard PvP and away from the general population. The death penalty would be that your sent back to your home shard to res up. By the time you get a res restock and get back would take 5 mins and that better than stat loss. It lets you back into the fight but not so quick that the other side has a chance of winning.

 

[Eärendil]

Please, no Reds in Tram. For me, this would be a reason to quit again... And for many of my friends, too. No kidding. This idea won´t enlarge the community - it would lead to further decline. Promised.

 

[Eärendil]

Winker: Great Idea, would support this absoultely. Problem: Think Devs said this would be complicated to do (technically...)...

 

[Petra Fyde]

I wanted to take the opportunity since many Fel topics have been brought up of late to gather some information and questions. I want this thread to be civil and constructive and anybody can freely ask any question or add or give opinions on to anothers questions. You can freely discuss ideas from others and I will put a reminder be constructive. It's ok to disagree but trolling will not be tolerated.


Now remember these are just questions and discussions. I am by far perfect so sometimes I do things on the fly. Hopefully this thread will get some great ideas where they can be submitted for questions.


My questions below

Arenas:

Are they being used on your shard( Insert your shard) hardly, quite a bit, all the time?
No, they're not being used.

Any ideas to get more people to try them out?
For a more varied experience, fighting different people, I'd suggest more use is made of the arenas on Test Center doing player organised cross shard tournaments. Something like Atlantic v Catskills, Baja v Pacific, Europa v Drachs.

Is there something that Arenas are missing or needed to imrove on?


Champ Spawns

Is it time to do something new with them or keep them the same way?
'Something new' is already on the 'todo' list. Mesanna has stated that they intend to change them to be less formulaic.


Add a mini champ spawn that can spawn in random places at different times in a fel that will only give 4 PS? Let me expand on this a little bit. Its random meaning it can spawn anywhere. It has a timer but it's a small spawn and does not need to be started by anybody. 3 levels and a small champ boss. The times are random also so they can't be camped. This gives blues a chance to roam around find these random spots and also gives reds a chance to find them. Entices the hunt so to speak.
No thoughts on this.

Random questions


Instead of just doubling resources for blue players, can you make a timer of 15 to 30 seconds before they can recall, ect ect, after gathering those resources? There is no risk if they can easily escape.
I don't think making them a sitting duck for any stealthing pk is going to encourage people to gather there. I'd rather have 20 ingots I can keep than 40 ingots I'm almost guaranteed to lose. I wouldn't mind something like 'if 3rd party script=true then recall; sacred journey=false' (for purists, I'm not a coder, the syntax is only approximate)

If Order and Chaos is implemented, will there be a new art of armor added for it only? Notice how I said art not stats. Just more of a unique look than the existing armor so to speak.
That's what the shields used to be.

If possible could fel resources be sperate than tram resources and gets a better % success rate at crafting?
I doubt very much that this could be implemented. Resources stack.

I may be asking the dumb or wrong questions but I wanted to throw this thread out and hear from the players. Ask away, discuss, add your own input and be constructive.

 

[Petra Fyde]

A gate on each shard that leads to a Dungeon, lets just call it Despsie for the sake of the topic. This would be on shard which everyone from all the shards would go to once they step through the gate. A new type of champ spawn of moderate difficulty with new drops. Maybe it could drop 3-4 good replicas each time. Once you die you get teleported back to your own shard, and you can come back through the gate once you get resed up and restocked. Once the champ is dead you go back to a moongate to get your loot back to your own shard.


This would give us Multi shard PvP and away from the general population. The death penalty would be that your sent back to your home shard to res up. By the time you get a res restock and get back would take 5 mins and that better than stat loss. It lets you back into the fight but not so quick that the other side has a chance of winning.

I have read numerous proposals along these lines involving a gate that allowed instant x shard to somewhere. I believe it is not possible with the way shards are set up

 

[Lythos-]

Hi everyone,i just want to put in my concern's about pvp.
I personally hate being ganked! in pvp, i'm sure i'm not the only one.
My solution to this problem in pvp is to have a timer on damage taken in a certain amount of time,I.E any damage over 70-80 hp in something like 3-5 seconds? whatever(dev's can work out the specific's) will be absorbed and do no damage at all if the person has 120 resist.


The reason for this is so that people have a chance to live if smaller guild's/solo player's encounter bigger guild's.
For example in a 1vs2 situation the one person actually has a chance to live/maybe win if the two person trying to gank the solo player are mediocre player's,Same goe's for 2vs4/4vs8 ect... And in a 10vs1 encounter it give's the one person a chance to get away too! instead of seeing 10 hailstorm's/armour ignore's at once and no chance of living/getting away.

Plus this idea give's solo player's another option in pvp instead of dueling or can only pvp if it's a 1vs1 ,Cause we all know that will get boring real fast and when someone get's bored or ganked constantly they wont pvp much or even quit pvping as a whole.


Furthermore it reduce's the need for bigger guild's,giving smaller guild's a chance to defend /raid people at champ's ,ect...
And more smaller guild's can be formed,Reducing the need to feel like you need to join bigger guild's to have a chance in fel.

I don't think this would be for the best. The biggest problem i see revolves around getting ganked in factions and having to sit out for 20min (logged in as well, you can't even go play another character while the stat counts down)

Please, no Reds in Tram. For me, this would be a reason to quit again... And for many of my friends, too. No kidding. This idea won´t enlarge the community - it would lead to further decline. Promised.

I'm one of the biggest fel advocates around and im against this as well BUT the only talk was that nobody would be attacked if they did allow this. I don't see it as a reason to quit over unless you're looking for a way out.

 

[Orgional Farimir]

Please, no Reds in Tram. For me, this would be a reason to quit again... And for many of my friends, too. No kidding. This idea won´t enlarge the community - it would lead to further decline. Promised.

why?

Why would it force you to quit, and how would it leave to further decline.

I guess I just don't understand how allowing reds into Tram would hurt anyone. Keep in mind most reds won't "farm" hunting spots and they would have to follow the Tram ruleset just like everyone else. If a player is not in O/C or a guild war then they still would not be able to be attacked.

 

[Eärendil]

@Farimir/Lythos: Maybe I didn´t read your posts correctly. If reds cannot attack in Tram: I could live with this idea. If they can attack me while sitting on my veranda, smoking a pipe and watching my plants grow - thanks and goodbye. That was the way how the game was in "those" years - and that was the reason why I left. I don´t want to PVP, I don´t want to be killed by PKs, that´s just not my concept of playing the game.

So: My apologies if I read your posts superficially. If you mean: Reds can enter but cannot attack players - I could accept this. Even though there are many good arguments against this proposal. I don´t like PKs. I think they deserve their excommunication from Tram. And everybody can make a blue char and get in touch to all the non-fel content. I don´t understand why any red should be able to enter Tram... But, well, I don´t understand many things in this weird PVP-world No offense...

My point simply is: Leave me alone in Tram with your PVP-stuff. Don´t attack me, don´t kill me. If that´s what you wanna do - I could live with it.

 

[Orgional Farimir]

@Farimir/Lythos: Maybe I didn´t read your posts correctly. If reds cannot attack in Tram: I could live with this idea. If they can attack me while sitting on my veranda, smoking a pipe and watching my plants grow - thanks and goodbye. That was the way how the game was in "those" years - and that was the reason why I left. I don´t want to PVP, I don´t want to be killed by PKs, that´s just not my concept of playing the game.

So: My apologies if I read your posts superficially. If you mean: Reds can enter but cannot attack players - I could accept this. Even though there are many good arguments against this proposal. I don´t like PKs. I think they deserve their excommunication from Tram. And everybody can make a blue char and get in touch to all the non-fel content. I don´t understand why any red should be able to enter Tram... But, well, I don´t understand many things in this weird PVP-world No offense...

My point simply is: Leave me alone in Tram with your PVP-stuff. Don´t attack me, don´t kill me. If that´s what you wanna do - I could live with it.

Maybe I didn't do a good enough job explaining it, but yes the ONLY people reds would be able to attack are players who are orange to them. So that means if you don't want to be attacked while sitting on your veranda, smoking a pipe and watching your plants grow, then don't join O/C or be in a guid that is involved in a guild war and you will be fine.

Just like there are many things in PvP you don't understand I don't understand how people enjoy "sitting on my veranda, smoking a pipe and watching my plants grow", or bank sitting in luna showing off the freshly tamed blazed CU, but it doesn't effect me so I live and let live.

 

[Eärendil]

Hehe. Good reply. People are so different, aren´t they? I know people who collect stamps and get a kick out of it. I know people who do kickboxing, others have aquariums with fish that are their most important goods. You know collectors for mechanical watches? Or people doing street-races? I know people doing RL-roleplay with wooden swords...

There is a place for everybody in this world and since Tram there is a place for everybody in this game. After a long day of with stress, business, discussions, problems I love to log in, meet some friends at WBB, look for some new design ideas for my house, start some shopping, restock my vendors, do some crafting, join an occasional monster hunt. The less exciting, the better. That´s why i can kill Navrey hundreds of times: The fight is simple, you have some min til respawn for chatting, going to pee, watching TV, grabbing some drinks... Excitement is the enemy of your sleep. After a long day, I need sleep. When I get raided while doing a champ I feel so much adrenaline in my veins that I need hours to calm down

I play this game to get "good" feelings. Aggression, discussions in general chat, and the behaviour of some PKs (I know, the loud minority) makes me feel uncomfortable. That´s not what I want to feel like after a stressful working day. I guess, UO is functional for my "mood management". Is that explanation enough?
So, if you want to have more excitement and don´t harm my way of life: Welcome! But I still don´t understand why you don´t create a blue char... The answer is sooo incredibly easy...

 

[Winker]

I have read numerous proposals along these lines involving a gate that allowed instant x shard to somewhere. I believe it is not possible with the way shards are set up

They can copy my chars over to test centre almost instantly. Im sure they can come up with something similar to let us all jump to one Central Server that’s not used for anything else.


So in practice they have the ability to make youre char jump from one server to another. They just need to work out how to make them go back and forth. Im sure it cant be that hard if it already works in one direction.

 

[Petra Fyde]

That's a copy, not a move - and once there you can't go back. You remember why there are delays in regular character transfer?

 

[Winker]

That's a copy, not a move - and once there you can't go back. You remember why there are delays in regular character transfer?

Once there, its not hard to delete the copy left behind. A few lines of code to make sure your there, before you char gets deleted.

You cant go back on Test Centre, but the system works in one direction it can be changed to work in the other direction to copy you back to your home shard.



This would not be a regular transfer as it is with char xfer to normal shards, its a transfer into a central Dungeon. Yes there would be problems to iron out, but it can be done, it just takes an incentive to get it done.


That incentive could be an expansion pack for PvPers, that way they get paid for doing the work rather than a normal publish which does not bring in any extra revenue.

 

[Lythos-]

Hehe. Good reply. People are so different, aren´t they? I know people who collect stamps and get a kick out of it. I know people who do kickboxing, others have aquariums with fish that are their most important goods. You know collectors for mechanical watches? Or people doing street-races? I know people doing RL-roleplay with wooden swords...

There is a place for everybody in this world and since Tram there is a place for everybody in this game. After a long day of with stress, business, discussions, problems I love to log in, meet some friends at WBB, look for some new design ideas for my house, start some shopping, restock my vendors, do some crafting, join an occasional monster hunt. The less exciting, the better. That´s why i can kill Navrey hundreds of times: The fight is simple, you have some min til respawn for chatting, going to pee, watching TV, grabbing some drinks... Excitement is the enemy of your sleep. After a long day, I need sleep. When I get raided while doing a champ I feel so much adrenaline in my veins that I need hours to calm down

I play this game to get "good" feelings. Aggression, discussions in general chat, and the behaviour of some PKs (I know, the loud minority) makes me feel uncomfortable. That´s not what I want to feel like after a stressful working day. I guess, UO is functional for my "mood management". Is that explanation enough?
So, if you want to have more excitement and don´t harm my way of life: Welcome! But I still don´t understand why you don´t create a blue char... The answer is sooo incredibly easy...

You're exactly right about how different people are. Some play to relax, some for profit, some for companionship and some for excitement from an otherwise dull day. (LOL at the wood sword fighting..rl nerve strike?).

Some people want reds to be allowed into tram ruleset facets to access the content. No pvp would be allowed unless war/order-chaos. When spawns came out you could almost bet anyone in a bigger guild protected their spawns at all cost racking up hundreds of counts per week. Some of those players quit and are trying to make a comeback but spawns are almost a thing of the past as far as things to do.

I can understand people not wanting to delete their character to remake a blue between rebuying scrolls and making macros plus you really do get attached to your pixel persona. I can understand people wanting to access all content as well now. Protecting spawns, having huge guild fights and all around pking is almost a thing of the past but they were all genuine playstyles in the past.

I am an advocate of Fel. I would much rather have the Devs impliment equal content to Fel, or at the least, super bosses that give equal tram rewards/items than to ever allow reds into tram rulesets.

 

[Eärendil]

First of all: I like the niveau of this thread. Much better than others I read in the last weeks. Well done, good points, good atmosphere...

But I am wondering about one point:

I can understand people not wanting to delete their character to remake a blue between rebuying scrolls and making macros plus you really do get attached to your pixel persona.

Maybe I am naive (I bet I am):

Are there people having 7 reds on their account? I mean - you have 7 slots and use them only for reds? That is... weird? I don´t find any words... I know a couple of players with 3+ accounts and the large majority of their chars are blue. And I don´t know ONE SINGLE player with only ONE account that has ONLY reds... Oh my god, what a mono-dimensional conception of this game

I mean: If you have blues, you can do everything except hardcore PKing (you can even do PVP). But if you have only reds??? LOL, that´s a funny thing to think about. It´s the first time I think about this idea and I can only shake my head, hahaha!

But yes, I am perhaps a bit naive - please don´t read my words as criticism or irony. I am honestly surprised and have never thought about this. To me it was self-evident that most people have a couple of blues and perhaps one or two reds...

 

[SlobberKnocker]

a guildmate of mine was sending me old pictures of uo last nite through icq. pictures of large fights in the star room, wrong, terra keep etc. if you really think about it the rewards back then were not much different than now but he population is. make the game more attractive to people and you will get more subscriptions that will lead to more pvp.

a faction reworking is sorely needed. Make it worthwhile to control the sigils. a boss in each of the bases that when killled will give out 150/150 not fortable arties perhaps. a water based champ spawn requiring high seas ships to compete. a deed that would allow you to convert a conjurors garb into a shirt perhaps or the ability to make mace and shield glasses a medable norse helm.

i think this can be done in such a way that it doesnt ''force trammel players to goto fel''. make the rewards fel desirable.

 

[Lord Frodo]

You're exactly right about how different people are. Some play to relax, some for profit, some for companionship and some for excitement from an otherwise dull day. (LOL at the wood sword fighting..rl nerve strike?).

Some people want reds to be allowed into tram ruleset facets to access the content. No pvp would be allowed unless war/order-chaos. When spawns came out you could almost bet anyone in a bigger guild protected their spawns at all cost racking up hundreds of counts per week. Some of those players quit and are trying to make a comeback but spawns are almost a thing of the past as far as things to do.

I can understand people not wanting to delete their character to remake a blue between rebuying scrolls and making macros plus you really do get attached to your pixel persona. I can understand people wanting to access all content as well now. Protecting spawns, having huge guild fights and all around pking is almost a thing of the past but they were all genuine playstyles in the past.

Nice post.

I am an advocate of Fel. I would much rather have the Devs impliment equal content to Fel, or at the least, super bosses that give equal tram rewards/items than to ever allow reds into tram rulesets.

Only if they do the same for the Tram side. Make both side have the same content.

 

[Lythos-]

First of all: I like the niveau of this thread. Much better than others I read in the last weeks. Well done, good points, good atmosphere...

But I am wondering about one point:



Maybe I am naive (I bet I am):

Are there people having 7 reds on their account? I mean - you have 7 slots and use them only for reds? That is... weird? I don´t find any words... I know a couple of players with 3+ accounts and the large majority of their chars are blue. And I don´t know ONE SINGLE player with only ONE account that has ONLY reds

It's wasn't uncommon for people to have every able fighting character red.

Spawn guilds of the past were compiled of pvp and pvm templates. For example, if the guild had a couple tamers or sampires with the rest in defenders, it just wasn't good guild etiquette to twiddle your thumbs and watch your guild die if raided. You needed to help at all costs.

 

[Lord Frodo]

A gate on each shard that leads to a Dungeon, lets just call it Despsie for the sake of the topic. This would be on shard which everyone from all the shards would go to once they step through the gate. A new type of champ spawn of moderate difficulty with new drops. Maybe it could drop 3-4 good replicas each time. Once you die you get teleported back to your own shard, and you can come back through the gate once you get resed up and restocked. Once the champ is dead you go back to a moongate to get your loot back to your own shard.


This would give us Multi shard PvP and away from the general population. The death penalty would be that your sent back to your home shard to res up. By the time you get a res restock and get back would take 5 mins and that better than stat loss. It lets you back into the fight but not so quick that the other side has a chance of winning.

Just make a TC-PvP shard without the "give" or "set" commands. You copy your PvP Char there and have at it all you want but just like reg TC you DO NOT get to take anything back.

 

[Lythos-]

Nice post.

Only if they do the same for the Tram side. Make both side have the same content.

Thanks! It's past time for equal content if you ask me.

I really liked the idea of the new harrower (not so sure about the name though). I would like to see not so much as a dungeon revamp but a nice boss that wouldn't really hit hard but take forever to kill. Maybe have a boss stationed somewhere in every land that gives random rewards from doom arties, crimson, hair dyes, tangle, slither, totem of void, 3.0 sots even stat scrolls with a guaranteed reward per kill.

The powerscrolls should be added to tram rulesets. I wouldn't offer the protection scrolls though. That could be solely left for Fel.

 

[cazador]

Powerscrolls are the only reason to still enter fel on almost every shard but LS and ATL plz don't make me xfer every red lol

 

[Lord Frodo]

I really liked the idea of the new harrower (not so sure about the name though). I would like to see not so much as a dungeon revamp but a nice boss that wouldn't really hit hard but take forever to kill. Maybe have a boss stationed somewhere in every land that gives random rewards from doom arties, crimson, hair dyes, tangle, slither, totem of void, 3.0 sots even stat scrolls with a guaranteed reward per kill.

Thanks! It's past time for equal content if you ask me.

The powerscrolls should be added to tram rulesets. I wouldn't offer the protection scrolls though. That could be solely left for Fel.

These statements are not equal. Equal is equal, both sides get the exact same things in them.

 

[Lythos-]

These statements are not equal. Equal is equal, both sides get the exact same things in them.

True, but you know tok and ilsh spawns will be chained if scrolls are given. If protection scrolls are offered that will mean an even bigger flood on the scroll market. I'm all ears for a way to keep them worth something while compromising for content though! Maybe lowering the drop rate across all facets for 120s?

 

[Zosimus]

This thread is going well.


I want to touch upon Order and Chaos. When I came into UO, Order vs Chaos was still around but I finally got in on the last leg before it was done. Was really fun but maybe if the devs do add this system back it may solve some issues with reds being in tram.


1) If a red joins either Order/Chaos it wipes the murder count which would make them be able to access all content on all facets. They can still continue to war with Order/Chaos on all facets.

2) The red does not lose their counts but can enter any facet when they join Order/Chaos and can war with the enemy in any facet.

3) Keep it in fel.


I really hate option 3 because as a whole the community is both fel and tram based players.



Will Order vs Chaos be the reason to pvp even for the feint of heart? There has to be a reason to PvP and a true purpose. What is a players fighting for? To be the best, to get those scrolls, to just zerg, what?


I like the cross shard gate idea but that most likely wont happen. You can't have server vs server in UO. I mean you could but the devs are not going to implement something when you can char copy and go to test. Most players would feel more comfy on tests anyway since you can just create a char and skills and stats and put on all these items and have insurance and go for it. I have seen fel busier on test than I have on a prodo shard. Why? There is no risk of losing anything you persoanlly own. Everything was given to you by the bank box.



It may not be equal if protection scrolls could not be given in tram side if such an idea ddi happen but I think that is fair. You can either go for 12 scrolls in fel side or 6 in tram as I see it. On tram side you could just chain them with out interuption. Fel side you have to deal with raiders.

 

[Cetric]

The arena's are hardly ever used on my shard. The last time my guild used them it was a good time, for about 5 minutes and then doing any group fights got old when every mage just targeted the same player at the start and dropped him in 1/5 of a second.

.

Who would do such a thing... But right, the arenas have barely been touched.




I've expressed several opinions on pvp through most of these threads. So rather than copy and paste all that essentially i'll read what others have to say and go from there.

 

[Lady Michelle]

This is what I think....
Reds in trammel faucets can't attack or be attacked unless in war guild, O/C, or factions.
to be fair
Blues in fel can't attack or be attacked unless in war guild, O/C, or factions.
Keep all content the way it is.
I know some won't agree, but makes things even all around. this way no content will have to be moved

 

[Lythos-]

This thread is going well.


I want to touch upon Order and Chaos. When I came into UO, Order vs Chaos was still around but I finally got in on the last leg before it was done. Was really fun but maybe if the devs do add this system back it may solve some issues with reds being in tram.


1) If a red joins either Order/Chaos it wipes the murder count which would make them be able to access all content on all facets. They can still continue to war with Order/Chaos on all facets.

2) The red does not lose their counts but can enter any facet when they join Order/Chaos and can war with the enemy in any facet.

3) Keep it in fel.


I really hate option 3 because as a whole the community is both fel and tram based players.



Will Order vs Chaos be the reason to pvp even for the feint of heart? There has to be a reason to PvP and a true purpose. What is a players fighting for? To be the best, to get those scrolls, to just zerg, what?

It may not be equal if protection scrolls could not be given in tram side if such an idea ddi happen but I think that is fair. You can either go for 12 scrolls in fel side or 6 in tram as I see it. On tram side you could just chain them with out interuption. Fel side you have to deal with raiders.

As far as Order/Chaos i do want it original on any facet but it goes against a 15 year history to allow reds into tram rulesets on purpose.
Id much rather see tokens available for sale to wipe counts. Perhaps they could come in 3 different types 1:up to 100 counts ($4.99), 2: up to 1000($9.99) and 3: up to 10,000 counts wiped($19.99).

People don't really need a solid reason to pvp. Order/Chaos was mainly free pvp anywhere for fun. There's no reward no real loss (i guess insurance now, but, big deal). Guilds can try to dominate but shard wide 2 sides will make for some interesting fights as well as RP. Originally, i had claimed Jhelom as my "turf" so i guess that's a form of RP.

The scrolls provided a solid reason for zergs. Eventually attitudes and ego's split guilds but we all had some great fights over some chances for big paying rewards. Most pvpers and pk's will tell ya though, its done for fun.

Factions has sealed the deal in terms of zergs and group play. You just don't see very many faction players about without a team. Not only do you risk 20min of your time if you fail but you have to have that char logged in real time to get your skills back. There's just no fun in that. Simply put, factions turned pvp into a greifers tool to make the other player not able to play to their fullest potential. Ive seen a lot of players quit the game completely due to stat loss.

I mentioned keeping the protection scrolls from tok and ilsh just because i know they'll be chained day and night until they're worthless. I wouldn't be opposed to ending protection all together and even lowering the drop rate of 120s on all facets. If they're revamping champs i want the work to be rewarding.

 

[Lythos-]

This is what I think....
Reds in trammel faucets can't attack or be attacked unless in war guild, O/C, or factions.
to be fair
Blues in fel can't attack or be attacked unless in war guild, O/C, or factions.
Keep all content the way it is.
I know some won't agree, but makes things even all around. this way no content will have to be moved

Makes sense but i disagree. It would completely turn Fel into a worse version of Tram with stam blocking monsters and no recall in dungeons. There would be no point in even being red with this and possibly kill the casual pvper as well. (the players that spend 95% of their gametime pvming and come to fel for that one burst of excitement ganking a red)

 

[Lord Frodo]

True, but you know tok and ilsh spawns will be chained if scrolls are given. If protection scrolls are offered that will mean an even bigger flood on the scroll market. I'm all ears for a way to keep them worth something while compromising for content though! Maybe lowering the drop rate across all facets for 120s?

A little unclear on what you mean by "protection scrolls". Are you talking about Skill and Stat Scrolls? Dropping the rate I can agree with but keeping them Fel only I can not agree with. One of the biggest complaints that you hear on these boards is the market is already flooded and they want another MAJOR game change item in Fel (IMHO to make up for the gold lost on the scrolls and to intice others into Fel.) Equal is equal. You can not have all for Fel without giving up all to Tram. Drop the drop rates on all highly desired items if you must but do it equally across both Fel and Tram. With the exception of drops that are so rare like Slither (I think that is the biggie item of UO now).

 

[Lord Frodo]

This is what I think....
Reds in trammel faucets can't attack or be attacked unless in war guild, O/C, or factions.
to be fair
Blues in fel can't attack or be attacked unless in war guild, O/C, or factions.
Keep all content the way it is.
I know some won't agree, but makes things even all around. this way no content will have to be moved

I could agree with this %100.

 

[Zosimus]

This is what I think....
Reds in trammel faucets can't attack or be attacked unless in war guild, O/C, or factions.
to be fair
Blues in fel can't attack or be attacked unless in war guild, O/C, or factions.
Keep all content the way it is.
I know some won't agree, but makes things even all around. this way no content will have to be moved

I definently like this and could agree 100% but I see one issue. Power scrolls. Unless champs could only be done if the player was in order or chaos then there would be no issue. Funny how PS and trying to be fair to all sides always throws a wrench in the ideas.