Surprise surprise Resellers and RMTers are against a Global Vendor Search. If a Global Vendor Search goes into place, shops in the wilderness can sell at the market rate. This means primary producers, including new players, will get market value for their wares, and more players will sell things. It is good for the game to have more players selling their wares. When you have systems that benefit the %5, and make it hard for the 95%, the game dies. That is why UO needs a Global Vendor Search, to get more players involved in vendoring.
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In Game Vendor Seach, Databases and problems and my solution
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Unfortunately this is an uphill battle. On one side you have the merchants coming out in force to protect their investments. On the other side you have a company that doesn't put enough money or effort into their game to meet the current demands of the current MMO cultures. Throw in old-timers that still believe we live in '98 and the game is full of players to interact with and you have a subject that is going nowhere fast.
You can already see some people trying to undermine the system that is being proposed with limits. Just giving coordinates to the shop will not deter people from using Luna vendors. Giving runes is a half-assed solution at best. Should a system like this even be added(I give is 3% chance of being something the developers can or will do) it will have to sell the item in real time. A search to find a location is asinine. The vendor location should be visible but there should be a buy option that adds a tariff for instant buy rather than a rune or location of said vendor.
I've reached my BS saturation point with this thread. It's the same arguments(against) by the same people for the same reasons. If a developer or a producer has ever commented on this subject I don't recall seeing it. In this light this is pretty much a dead subject and this thread is destined to be locked.
I´m no dev nor coder nor anything remotely to that but I fail to see how it is not possible for the dev team to make those sites shut down.
I understand that EA probably can´t make them shut down by telling them to/threaten to sue or whatever.
However, since it´s no secret HOW they gather the information for their search sites, the devs should be able to mess with the "messengers". Most of us know about the bot in newbie necro armour that makes his rounds in Luna. He´s even visible. Ban him. Even if they make a stealther it shouldn´t be hard for the devs to track chars that ONLY makes rounds around Luna/Zento/Mag using the same paths over and over, day in and day out. Ban him. They set him up in some other way? Well, he still have to do his rail rounds so shouldn´t be hard to spot him eventually. Ban him.
Even with trial accounts, if they kept getting banned all the time, they would get tired of setting up new accounts and eventually give up on "providing" such a feature.
I guess it´s a lack of interest or time/resources from the devs part that keeps the sites still up. Although, I´m confident that if they really wanted and had the time to then they could force the sites to shut down this feature...
Something like that, heh.
You know everything changes. Whether it be real life or games, it's human nature to be inventive and creative and to find ways of making our lives easier or more convenient. That's the way of just about anything you could think of.
UO is no different. This game has changed so much that it is nothing like the game that was started in 1997. Things have been added, changed and changed again over and over repeatedly. We've had some 74+ publishes making changes to this game. My point is things change. Everyone should be used to it.
There is no FUN anymore is having to run all over the damn shard to discover vendors and search for things you want or need. Ten and twelve years ago when I had only one 40 hours a week job and no wife, no kids, no mortgage, I had so many hours I could play UO it didn't matter. Yes I've said it before I once did enjoy shopping in UO. However, here's the flaw in that logic, there was no other option at that time. There was no search site to use to find things. You had no choice but to run around everywhere to advertise your own shop and to find what you wanted to buy. There also was no Luna with it's high priced houses concentrated into one small area. What did Luna add to the game by the way? Convenience that's what. That horrible thing some seem so dead set against in the name of some twisted idea of nostalgia. Get over it already. Like I already said, we ran around everywhere looking for stuff because there was no other option. If there had been a more convenient way to find things at the time it would have been used believe me. You want proof? Luna. Where did all the vendors go after AoS? Luna. Why? Convenience.
I don't care if you have a Luna vendor house or not. If you are opposed to an in-game vendor search then you support the Luna merchants maintaining their dominance and near monopoly on vendors in UO. You also support the continued use and exclusivity of that search site. Yes you do. EA isn't going to shut it down. They probably can't shut it down so pull your head out of the sand and open your eyes to reality. Every other player who doesn't have a Luna vendor and wants to run a shop from their house anywhere on the shard is at a supreme disadvantage to the combo of Luna and the search site. It's a fact.
The average age of most players still left playing this game seems to be over 35 now. Most of us don't have the time we used to have to play. I know for a fact I don't. When I do play I want to play. I want to go hunt or craft and collect resources and explore. I don't want to spend hours looking for stuff on vendors and I highly doubt very many players do either. If you still want to then more power to ya. Have fun doing what YOU enjoy. Just because you don't want the convenience of being able to find what you want quick and efficiently doesn't mean the rest of us should be stuck without the option.
From what I can see, at least in the 150+ posts in this thread, nobody is expecting or even asking for, being able to purchase an item through the search system. I haven't read much if any from anyone asking for a recall function either. Most just simply want to be told where the vendor is that has what we want. Getting there is not a problem but even if there hypothetically was a recall button. So what. Once you go to the vendor and mark a rune it's just a recall away anyway. What's the difference. I say we don't need it because it's not that hard to recall near and run to just about any place on the shard in a minute or two. Then you mark a rune.
I'm done here. I'm not gonna argue with one biased player and another one that want's to wax nostalgia on the good old days of yore in UO. I've said what I've have to offer. I'm not gonna repeat myself just for the sake of continued debate. I made my point.
UO is no different. This game has changed so much that it is nothing like the game that was started in 1997. Things have been added, changed and changed again over and over repeatedly. We've had some 74+ publishes making changes to this game. My point is things change. Everyone should be used to it.
There is no FUN anymore is having to run all over the damn shard to discover vendors and search for things you want or need. Ten and twelve years ago when I had only one 40 hours a week job and no wife, no kids, no mortgage, I had so many hours I could play UO it didn't matter. Yes I've said it before I once did enjoy shopping in UO. However, here's the flaw in that logic, there was no other option at that time. There was no search site to use to find things. You had no choice but to run around everywhere to advertise your own shop and to find what you wanted to buy. There also was no Luna with it's high priced houses concentrated into one small area. What did Luna add to the game by the way? Convenience that's what. That horrible thing some seem so dead set against in the name of some twisted idea of nostalgia. Get over it already. Like I already said, we ran around everywhere looking for stuff because there was no other option. If there had been a more convenient way to find things at the time it would have been used believe me. You want proof? Luna. Where did all the vendors go after AoS? Luna. Why? Convenience.
I don't care if you have a Luna vendor house or not. If you are opposed to an in-game vendor search then you support the Luna merchants maintaining their dominance and near monopoly on vendors in UO. You also support the continued use and exclusivity of that search site. Yes you do. EA isn't going to shut it down. They probably can't shut it down so pull your head out of the sand and open your eyes to reality. Every other player who doesn't have a Luna vendor and wants to run a shop from their house anywhere on the shard is at a supreme disadvantage to the combo of Luna and the search site. It's a fact.
The average age of most players still left playing this game seems to be over 35 now. Most of us don't have the time we used to have to play. I know for a fact I don't. When I do play I want to play. I want to go hunt or craft and collect resources and explore. I don't want to spend hours looking for stuff on vendors and I highly doubt very many players do either. If you still want to then more power to ya. Have fun doing what YOU enjoy. Just because you don't want the convenience of being able to find what you want quick and efficiently doesn't mean the rest of us should be stuck without the option.
Yeah we have. You just choose not to listen.
Good for you. Here's the deal you just don't get. YOU are a merchant. You want to spend your time buying and selling stuff in UO. The rest of us don't however we all have loot and crafted items we'd like to sell and have some vendors at our house. We don't want to pay you or anyone else fees just to stand a vendor in Luna.
Total bull crap. Having vendors in Luna is a huge advantage. Actually owning property in Luna is gold machine. You don't even need to be a merchant just a landlord.
Who cares if it's chump change or not. That's not the point. Why should anyone have to pay fee to put a vendor in Luna when it's free in your own house? Some Luna vendors charge 100k-150k a week. That's just asinine.
Again, we don't want vendors in Luna or Zento. We want vendors in our own houses. Oh and practically free IS NOT FREE.
Oh please... game wrecker for who? You? The UO merchant? The Luna merchant? Whatever. Talk about an exaggeration. That's one for sure. Maybe an in-game search will wreck your game it's certainly not gonna wreck mine.
From what I can see, at least in the 150+ posts in this thread, nobody is expecting or even asking for, being able to purchase an item through the search system. I haven't read much if any from anyone asking for a recall function either. Most just simply want to be told where the vendor is that has what we want. Getting there is not a problem but even if there hypothetically was a recall button. So what. Once you go to the vendor and mark a rune it's just a recall away anyway. What's the difference. I say we don't need it because it's not that hard to recall near and run to just about any place on the shard in a minute or two. Then you mark a rune.
More exaggerations.
Umm, isn't that what you do now? Yeah, exactly. You just are mostly focused on what's in Luna and buy up what's for sale in Luna that you can mark up. Sure you probably have a few far and away vendors but predominately you buy up what's for sale in Luna, buy it all, then place it on your vendor in Luna marked up higher priced.
I'm done here. I'm not gonna argue with one biased player and another one that want's to wax nostalgia on the good old days of yore in UO. I've said what I've have to offer. I'm not gonna repeat myself just for the sake of continued debate. I made my point.
The trader profession exists. It's just that it's now a wholly owned subsidiary of Luna Inc. and a handful of goldselling search sites. While it might be nice if you could blow up Luna and magically shut all those sites down, that is just plain never going to happen.
Ever. If you're not prepared to deal with that fact, then you're not discussing the UO economy from a place of reality and there's no good reason to take your opinion seriously.
The question is not "vendor search versus traveling back in time to before search sites existed" but rather "vendor search for everyone versus vendor search only for Luna". That is the actual reality of the situation and the actual question before us.
I have yet to hear a meaningful argument as to why "vendor search but only for Luna vendors" is to the benefit of anyone but Luna vendors.
Harping on that you wish all these damn modern kids with their iPads and their gimme gimme mentality would just learn to buckle down and click a thousand vendors is meaningless rhetoric. They're not and they aren't going to. They would rather just go hit up a search site and spend the time they saved, you know, playing the game.
Complaining that you only want to sell your goods to people who will use them and never people who will resell them for a profit is equally meaningless. Nobody has mind control powers, nobody can control who buys your items or what they do with them.
Search sites all shutting down, people learning to love searching vendors for hours, and resellers magically not being able to find the same items as "legitimate" buyers are all fantasies. Posts that begin "YOU KNOW WHAT I WISH" and then spiral off into one of these fantasies are not productive.
I want to hear a rational argument for why "vendor search but only for Luna vendors" is the best actual possible situation.
Ever. If you're not prepared to deal with that fact, then you're not discussing the UO economy from a place of reality and there's no good reason to take your opinion seriously.
The question is not "vendor search versus traveling back in time to before search sites existed" but rather "vendor search for everyone versus vendor search only for Luna". That is the actual reality of the situation and the actual question before us.
I have yet to hear a meaningful argument as to why "vendor search but only for Luna vendors" is to the benefit of anyone but Luna vendors.
Harping on that you wish all these damn modern kids with their iPads and their gimme gimme mentality would just learn to buckle down and click a thousand vendors is meaningless rhetoric. They're not and they aren't going to. They would rather just go hit up a search site and spend the time they saved, you know, playing the game.
Complaining that you only want to sell your goods to people who will use them and never people who will resell them for a profit is equally meaningless. Nobody has mind control powers, nobody can control who buys your items or what they do with them.
Search sites all shutting down, people learning to love searching vendors for hours, and resellers magically not being able to find the same items as "legitimate" buyers are all fantasies. Posts that begin "YOU KNOW WHAT I WISH" and then spiral off into one of these fantasies are not productive.
I want to hear a rational argument for why "vendor search but only for Luna vendors" is the best actual possible situation.
Ok, had to respond to this.
Starting a trial account, creating a character and loading your script up only takes a few minutes. Hardly a deterrent when you are making real life cash for it.
No they won't. Because they make real life money doing it.
Starting a trial account, creating a character and loading your script up only takes a few minutes. Hardly a deterrent when you are making real life cash for it.
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georgemarvin2001
Guest
I had luna vendors, I was included in all the outside search databases. Therefore, while I was playing, I would have grasped at any straw to keep the devs from actually implementing an in-game vendor search. It would have produced a ton of competition that would have cut into my profits.
Now that I'm no longer an active player, I can admit that the fact is that there are several out-of-game search engines that do greatly benefit Luna vendors, and pretty much make it impossible for people who don't have access to Luna vendors to do business.
Before AOS, if a player died and lost his equipment, he had been able to just go to a nearby house with a vendor outside it and get a valorite plate suit for a warrior for a few thousand gold pieces, or a set of GM crafted leather for a mage for a few hundred gold pieces, either of which took a couple of minutes to craft. Every dungeon had several supplies vendors nearby. So did all the major PvP hotspots. It was easy for anybody to set up shop practically anywhere and actually do a brisk business. You sold a standard stock of goods that could be easily replaced.
After AOS, crafters had to spend months collecting BODs to burn dozens of runic kits and hammers to make some pieces of armor that wouldn't work with the suits that 99% of the players were using. If you've spent hundreds of thousands of gold pieces and months of your valuable time making a handful of uber items that maybe one player out of a hundred will actually need to finish his suit, you have to put those items somewhere that it will be easy for that one player who needs them to find them. Which means in Luna.
Before AOS, a searchable database wouldn't have been worth the effort. the only reason to go looking around for hours was to find rares to decorate your home or show off at Brit bank. And there was a forum site that people listed the best rares they had for sale. They would meet at a bank to make the exchange, or give coordinates to their vendors where they had put the items. That early predecessor to the search sites would have literally hundreds of posts per day in its heyday. It's still around, but it's deserted now.
After AOS, it was pure insanity for UO to not have anything to help us find those needles-in-the-haystack items that we would need to complete a single suit of armor.
The search websites don't break any laws, so EA would have a hard time shutting them down. The only thing they break is EA's terms of service, and a lot of the TOS agreement wouldn't hold up in an actual court.
Now that I'm no longer an active player, I can admit that the fact is that there are several out-of-game search engines that do greatly benefit Luna vendors, and pretty much make it impossible for people who don't have access to Luna vendors to do business.
Before AOS, if a player died and lost his equipment, he had been able to just go to a nearby house with a vendor outside it and get a valorite plate suit for a warrior for a few thousand gold pieces, or a set of GM crafted leather for a mage for a few hundred gold pieces, either of which took a couple of minutes to craft. Every dungeon had several supplies vendors nearby. So did all the major PvP hotspots. It was easy for anybody to set up shop practically anywhere and actually do a brisk business. You sold a standard stock of goods that could be easily replaced.
After AOS, crafters had to spend months collecting BODs to burn dozens of runic kits and hammers to make some pieces of armor that wouldn't work with the suits that 99% of the players were using. If you've spent hundreds of thousands of gold pieces and months of your valuable time making a handful of uber items that maybe one player out of a hundred will actually need to finish his suit, you have to put those items somewhere that it will be easy for that one player who needs them to find them. Which means in Luna.
Before AOS, a searchable database wouldn't have been worth the effort. the only reason to go looking around for hours was to find rares to decorate your home or show off at Brit bank. And there was a forum site that people listed the best rares they had for sale. They would meet at a bank to make the exchange, or give coordinates to their vendors where they had put the items. That early predecessor to the search sites would have literally hundreds of posts per day in its heyday. It's still around, but it's deserted now.
After AOS, it was pure insanity for UO to not have anything to help us find those needles-in-the-haystack items that we would need to complete a single suit of armor.
The search websites don't break any laws, so EA would have a hard time shutting them down. The only thing they break is EA's terms of service, and a lot of the TOS agreement wouldn't hold up in an actual court.
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Sorry man, and no disrespect, but I stopped reading there.
thats too bad cause he makes a great point and its coming from someone who did play and can admit the advantage he had
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RavenWinterHawk
Guest
Like I said name calling. Yelling doesnt make your point right. It just makes a bad point loud. You summed me up. You win. Move along.... nothing to see... Ive been exposed.
*waits for day I can play the game standing at my door and never have to move anywhere*.
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I don't think anyone denies Luna vendors have and advantage. However, they will always have an advantage. THE biggest advantage, location, and ease of getting to them. That advantage will hold reguardless of anything that gets thought up and put in game. Until the crowd decides to move onto another location, which sadly imo will not happen.
No it doesn't create lag.
The searchable database thing has been suggested many times over the years (other MMO's use this system to great effect) and it gets A) Ignored by the devs and B) Shot down by greedy luna gougers who's only edge is location.
Ugh I've posted about this so many times before - explained the positive effects it would have on the game/economy but nobody is interested.
The vendor system is an absolute MESS. It does NOT WORK with a game on UO's scale. But its YOU PEOPLE right here on THESE FORUMS who keep shooting it down, so enjoy spending hours/days at a time clicking through usless, messy, overpriced vendors.
The searchable database thing has been suggested many times over the years (other MMO's use this system to great effect) and it gets A) Ignored by the devs and B) Shot down by greedy luna gougers who's only edge is location.
Ugh I've posted about this so many times before - explained the positive effects it would have on the game/economy but nobody is interested.
The vendor system is an absolute MESS. It does NOT WORK with a game on UO's scale. But its YOU PEOPLE right here on THESE FORUMS who keep shooting it down, so enjoy spending hours/days at a time clicking through usless, messy, overpriced vendors.
Well, it´s more to it than just making a new trial account.
I once saw a player, let´s call him "Tjalle", being chased by a crystal elemental through the south exit of Luna. Luckily he was able to hide just inside the walls. Unfortunately there was another player nearby, let´s call him "search site bot", that caught the elemental´s attention. He died.
Five minutes later a friend to SSB showed up at the crossroad at the east exit of Luna. And there from he began his journey.
My point is that in order for the search sites to "provide" their service their bots need to make the full trip to get all of the information. If he´s stopped/banned six houses down his route then not only does he have to create a new account but also start the script all over.
Sure, they can make multiple scripts starting five tiles from each other but most likely they won´t.
So if their information flow is stopped then the sites will lose interest from the players/visitors and hopefully it will not only be annoying starting over all the time but also they will feel it´s not worth putting in the effort since the decline of visitors.
Off Topic: TESTING ONLY ..
While I was simply trying to catch a screen shot of a bear scratching behind his ears things got out of hand .. couldn't get one for a long time because those polar bears just don't often scratch and when they do I discovered they don't quite reach behind their ears with their hind foot ... oop sorry - am getting off topic here .. Just testing to see if these pictures post ok or make any sense --
While capturing two bears appoaching each other, I couldn't help but see a similarity to two posters with opposite views - -
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- - put a different poster's name on each one of the bears - -
.. an' that got me thinking _ (someone in here said that is always a dangerous thing to do - Think! )
- - bears representing posters - -
Stratics has me labeled in here as "certifiable"
... must be a bad dream
While I was simply trying to catch a screen shot of a bear scratching behind his ears things got out of hand .. couldn't get one for a long time because those polar bears just don't often scratch and when they do I discovered they don't quite reach behind their ears with their hind foot ... oop sorry - am getting off topic here .. Just testing to see if these pictures post ok or make any sense --
While capturing two bears appoaching each other, I couldn't help but see a similarity to two posters with opposite views - -
- -
- - put a different poster's name on each one of the bears - -
.. an' that got me thinking _ (someone in here said that is always a dangerous thing to do - Think! )
- - bears representing posters - -
Stratics has me labeled in here as "certifiable"
... must be a bad dream
I will respectfully disagree.
If you gave the Search function ONLY to Wilderness Vendors, and completely and utterly eliminated any search function ability ONLY in Luna and Zento...well...that is the only way to really check the validity, then isn't it?
I am betting that having a wilderness vendor would be the way to go if the search function was ONLY available out away from towns. I am betting that Luna and Zento vendors would suffer mightily.
I am betting that being all in one place would not benefit the town vendors NEARLY as much as the ability to search all of the wilderness vendors would benefit the wilderness vendors...not nearly as much.
I could sure be wrong...but I really do not believe I am off by much at all in this regard.
Hey you're right, since Luna vendors would always have a slight advantage in terms of being close to a moongate anyway, we may as well just allow them to continue to have a giant economy-dominating advantage that lets them ruin all of their competition.
After all, if a proposed system can't make everything everywhere 100% equal down to the last decimal point, then it's better to just leave the entire UO economy as a prisoner of scripting goldselling search sites.
Right?
And to think, all it takes is having GMs on constant Luna-patrol 24/7 on every shard with orders to instantly perma-ban anyone they see walking in a circle.
All that, and you can probably disrupt the search sites for 12 to 18 hours, tops. Until they take the 5 minutes to dress their bots in different clothes and program some random pauses into their movement. Then you can either ban everyone in Luna or go home.
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Huh? But that automatically does away with the "equal trade" you have been asking for. *shakes head* Instead of the search feature being equal for ALL as you have made clear you want, it goes away from being biased against any vendor not in Luna supposedly, then goes to being biased towards Luna. Sorry. I still stick by shut down ALL search sites, plug the vunerabilities on the game that allows the script/exploit that let's them have the searches anyway, and return to a real market that allows/demands merchants to be actual merchants. Only those with a well thought out, well laid "business" plan thrive. Not just someone who can stock a vendor and let a search engine do the work for them. That is fair for all, everyone has the same level playing field. Of course it would require EA/Mytic/Bioware/whoever it is next year, to actually do something on the illegal programs front. Sorry, ain't gonna hold my breath there lol.
I can't speak to everyone in game, just myself, but I for one would not search the wilderness, not even to save a mil. I'd still go to Luna or a easily recgonized area, make my purchase, and get onto better things. HOWEVER, if merchants would actually be merchants again, advertising and gating to their shop, and they had a nice selection, I would snag a rune or mark one, and frequent that place again. TRUE merchants will always thrive, regardless of the mechanics you place on them.
First, some very well-made points:
The bottom line is this: We need a way for all players to compete with the outrageously unfair Luna/Zento vendor concentration and Luna/Zento dedicated search systems. We NEED an ingame vendor search system so that ALL PLAYERS CAN COMPETE IN THE BUY/SELL ECONOMY in all of Sosaria...
GIVE IT TO US!!!
Just sayin....
and then....HD2300 said:
and finally....Ezekiel Zane said:
I'm so sick of hearing the incredibly lame argument that goes something like "What's so hard about dropping runes to your vendors? Back in the day...." Well "Back in the day" players actually hung-out at the banks talking, gating, advertising on their toon's Profile, etc... Well those days are gone, period. I wish they weren't, but they are - and they left not long after Luna was born. Before Luna there was NO concentration of vendors in a small "safe" area and there were no websites dedicated to Luna/Zento vendors. The only way to get people to your vendors was to drop runes, talk, do in-game advertising via talk or profile reading. (When was the last time you even saw anything written on a toon's profile?). With the birth of Luna's vendor "concentration" and the Luna/Zento search sites, the old ways ceased to exist for the obvious reasons so many have listed here....Meatbread said:
The bottom line is this: We need a way for all players to compete with the outrageously unfair Luna/Zento vendor concentration and Luna/Zento dedicated search systems. We NEED an ingame vendor search system so that ALL PLAYERS CAN COMPETE IN THE BUY/SELL ECONOMY in all of Sosaria...
GIVE IT TO US!!!
Just sayin....
Wrong.. Luna vendors will have an advantage, always. It's what we've been indoctrinated to think. "If luna doesnt have it, the shard doesn't have it".. that mentality rules.
Kindof like prison life IRL... theres really no reason to avoid it. Prison sentances are actually an insentive to commit cirme. They say, "Look at the luxurious life you could have if you rob a bank! Join us at Penn State Correctional Facility! You get daily massages/etc, money, free education.etc. All the luxuries that law-abiding citizens have no access to.
U mean like a logical effort/reward system?
Nah it will never happen. The pro-quo luna scammers wont allow it. If anything happens to threaten their monopoly, you can expect these boards to come alight with whining and complaining. They EXPECT a monopoly. TO HELL WITH THE ADVERTISING ON THE BOX... "You can run a vendor and sell items in UO"... That statement is blatant FALSE ADVERTISING. I repeat:
F A L S E A D V E R T I S I N G
You C**A**N**N**O**T**T run a vendor in UO unless you already own Luna real estate. New players are drawn into the game under the pretense of owning their own "player-run establishment".. only to realise "wait a minute, that's complete bull". I dont have a luna house, therefore nobody will visit my vendor. Wait a sec - what if there was a searchable database that--**NO! That's not pro quo! GO AWAY! Leave my effortless greedy monopoly alone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
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Wow, really? I know of a person who has left the game within the last year. She had a small house on a pennisula in the middle of nowhere. She did not carry HIGH end stuff, {the highest value thing I ever witnessed her sell was on occasion a spellweaving book, that she priced at 1m} but had 4 vendors on her steps with things that are nedded. Bandies, egg bombs, pots arrows etc. She had no search engine driving her vendors. She simply walked around, dropped a few runes, gated every once and a while. While she was dropping her runes, or gating, she would take the time out to talk to people and build some kind or rapport with them. She would ask them what type of consumables they needed, and the first chance she got, it was added to her vendors for a nominal fee. While she was not making ungodly sums of gold by todays standard, she was pulling in 3-10 mililon a week. That little 10*12 in the middle of nowhere had more traffic at it than most any other shop in Luna.
Keep in mind that was done when the searching website was active and was spreading like wildfire.
Keep in mind that was done when the searching website was active and was spreading like wildfire.
There's exeptions to every rule.. the person you describe sounds like a worthy and deserving merchant. 99.9999999% of "merchants" on UO are not as you describe. They are greedy, rich/lucky/undeserving/unworthy/lazy scammers who profit from the fact that other players are too lazy to shop elsewhere.
Well you quoted my post. What name calling. What yelling. I see neither.
Either more exaggerations, you're butthurt or you quoted the wrong post?
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I can not disagree with that, but can't fully agree either lol. There does seem to be an attitude out there of "I want a program to do it for me". Not only IN game, but in life too "there's an app for that".... kinda scary when you think about it. Always makes me think, when is enough enough. *shrugs*
You're very right about that. Its a scary world we live in these days. Kids literally get away with murder - people in general are SLAVES to their cell phone plans... Annnnyways... i feel old.. am I weird to feel old on account of an IQ above 100? l...o....l...
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....?
Surgeries, not quite sure I understand when you wrote:
"I am betting that being all in one place would not benefit the town vendors NEARLY as much as the ability to search all of the wilderness vendors would benefit the wilderness vendors...not nearly as much."
I think you are saying that the town vendors would not benifit as much as the wilderness vendors.
Already, new Houses outside LUNA CITY have been set up by people who also have vendors inside the city. Nothing prevents any business from going outside the city and setting up vendor houses too making it possible for them at all times to access, use and take advantage of the suggested Wilderness-only in-game-vendor-search. How they would use it I can guess.
Startle Post #169: Before Luna there was NO concentration of vendors in a small "safe" area and there were no websites dedicated to Luna/Zento vendors.
Most of us agree that the major problem started with arrival of Luna City.
Now I know the programmers could burn it down if they so desired .. EG: Magincia.
While I personally wish they would, it wouldn't be feasable because of the housing they allowed... Can't just tell paying subscribers their houses are condemned.... That wouldn't be fair and this is, after all, Sosaria - where honor is supposed to mean something....
Just sayin.....
Usin' this emoticon for no particular reason... other than it's there.
- Awards
- 1
You're right, startle. Magincia didn't have housing so that ends that idea. 
One night I saw a Player cast a gate directly in front of a marcoed robot's path as it was walking the streets of Luna. Yes. It walked into the gate and vanished.
I like emoticons but I like posting pictures too - -
It's late ... time to
One night I saw a Player cast a gate directly in front of a marcoed robot's path as it was walking the streets of Luna. Yes. It walked into the gate and vanished.
I like emoticons but I like posting pictures too - -
It's late ... time to
You CAN do very well with a building outside Luna and Zento.
Some examples on Europa of houses that don't reside in Luna or Zento some still active some not. They all used rune dropping and gating at peak times and word of mouth.
one thing that is good is also having a guild named after your shop and making it a "company" helps spread your shops name around.
Three's A Crowd - Still running Umbra Road
Blue Wolf Trader - Sold up to Three's a Crowd
RAA Shop - Moved from several non luna Locations and is still running
Mountain Hollow - Near Ice Dungeon, Not 100% sure if it is still going but was HIGHLY popular
KLD - Ice island castle
The Cat's Den - off Umbra road they are still running.
Despise Supplies - doesn't run as a shop any more but did very well in its time.
my point is Yes Luna vendors will thrive faster but if a shop is kept well stocked and advertised with gating and or runes it will do well and people will come back no matter where you are.
in real life if you want a shop on the high street it costs more because of the easy of getting trade, if you buy one away from the high street its cheaper but you HAVE to go to the high street and tell people where you are!
Some examples on Europa of houses that don't reside in Luna or Zento some still active some not. They all used rune dropping and gating at peak times and word of mouth.
one thing that is good is also having a guild named after your shop and making it a "company" helps spread your shops name around.
Three's A Crowd - Still running Umbra Road
Blue Wolf Trader - Sold up to Three's a Crowd
RAA Shop - Moved from several non luna Locations and is still running
Mountain Hollow - Near Ice Dungeon, Not 100% sure if it is still going but was HIGHLY popular
KLD - Ice island castle
The Cat's Den - off Umbra road they are still running.
Despise Supplies - doesn't run as a shop any more but did very well in its time.
my point is Yes Luna vendors will thrive faster but if a shop is kept well stocked and advertised with gating and or runes it will do well and people will come back no matter where you are.
in real life if you want a shop on the high street it costs more because of the easy of getting trade, if you buy one away from the high street its cheaper but you HAVE to go to the high street and tell people where you are!
Is there anything more tiresome than the UO masochist who clumsily struggles to draw some vague faux-profound correlation between wanting a convenient computer interface and some sort of shiftless lazy societal moral decay?
Yes, people want devices to do their work for them. Welcome to something called civilization. There's a reason you're not banging a bowlful of grain with a rock to make flour.
"Lazy kids these days are pulling the plow with a horse instead of pushing it themselves. Oh woe is me, what dark times we live in."
Nobody wants to click a thousand vendors. Nobody is ever going to want to click a thousand vendors. So many people hate clicking all those vendors that they sustain an entire "Luna industry" owned by scripters/dupers/goldsellers.
I find it incredibly telling that nobody has even tried to argue that the current situation is actually better than having a legit vendor search system. Instead it's all just been "abloo bloo bloo, they shouldn't have created Luna 10 years ago" and a few psychopaths who hate all those lazy kids who refuse to click a thousand vendors.
Yes, people want devices to do their work for them. Welcome to something called civilization. There's a reason you're not banging a bowlful of grain with a rock to make flour.
"Lazy kids these days are pulling the plow with a horse instead of pushing it themselves. Oh woe is me, what dark times we live in."
Nobody wants to click a thousand vendors. Nobody is ever going to want to click a thousand vendors. So many people hate clicking all those vendors that they sustain an entire "Luna industry" owned by scripters/dupers/goldsellers.
I find it incredibly telling that nobody has even tried to argue that the current situation is actually better than having a legit vendor search system. Instead it's all just been "abloo bloo bloo, they shouldn't have created Luna 10 years ago" and a few psychopaths who hate all those lazy kids who refuse to click a thousand vendors.
Well, I am old... old enough to remember when my folks had an ice box (no refrigerator); and for a short time I actually did walk to school in the snow.
My IQ isn't too shabby, but I wouldn't object to a search function that would give me wider shopping options than what UO has now.Hey! First post, lost my stratics account (but not my Castle , ty EA! )
I'm going to do my best to clear up and hopefully help everyone see things a bit clearer, without fighting!
Misconception: Luna Vendors are the only vendors on Search Sites! unfair!
The US-based "Search" sites are actually running a promotion to get all of the outside of Luna vendors added in their search engine. Heck I submitted 7 books worth of runes (you can thank me later LS!
)
The only one that doesn't is that Russian one that spams up general chat.
Misconception: A global vendor search in-game can't be abused any more than the systems we have now!
This is by far the most dangerous misconception floating around. An in-game vendor search would allow people to write programs and routines to completely monopolize and ruin ANY specific product market they chose to.
Further explanation and scenario: Joe is a programmer by trade and wants to capitalize on this new in-game search. Since our in-game client(s) have been deconstructed and 3rd party applications exist to utilize functions at the lowest level of communication, Joe has a fairly easy job ahead of him!
He makes 1 mage on each shard, and since Joe is extremely wealthy (from all of the wood he farms), they're suited up very well (wouldn't want dead bots would you?)
Joe writes a routine that starts with Entering a specific:
Item Name or Item Type
Buy Price
Sell Price
The routine runs the command for accessing the in-game vendor search
It searches for the type/name he was looking for and rips the results or just reads via OCR.
It searches for all instances where Buy Price would be satisfied, and saves the coords to those vendors.
Onto sub routine!
Vendor recalls to various 'near-by' locations (If Coords = "Near Skara" , Recall to Rune 1, Book 1 for example)
Time to stealth!
Character stealth walks(in Ninja form for added speed) from location A to Vendor via legal approved mapping software and a fairly advanced, but already written and publicly available anti-block routine.
End result: Joe just bought that Ornament of the Magician for 5m under vendor price. HOORAY for JOE!
But when Joe's bot was done he also got the Ornament that was 4m under his Sell Price, and 3m under his Sell Price. All while he was at work, and left his bot to run!
"But everyone has ornaments, noob! Who cares!" Ok , well what about that Splintering 30% Kryss that just dropped from shame/wrong? Oh, you never got to see it because Joe had a bot running a routine to buy all splintering 25%+ Kryss'..
Technology is neat sometimes.
Now that clearly seems like a problem, right? That's ONE instance for one static non-disposable item, with ONE botter. Imagine a situation where at least 30-50 high end players had bots setup to do this?
That's all low end hypothetically, since the cost of setting these characters up is about 5m per mage.
This also isn't even a worst case scenario, this is just the average run of the mill "if this system becomes in-game everyone is going to be running this" system. A(and probably not the only) worst case scenario is where the extremely rich have runes marked all over the place to vendor shops, and can scalp full lists of products all day. No interaction, and no chance for the average player to ever pay anything but what is dictated by someone's Bot system.
The market would be CONTROLLED, the market would be RUINED.
None of this is AS possible (not even close) with having the search ran on a website. Even if it's by a 3rd party.
I'm fairly certain that our Dev Team understands this and sees what happened to WoW's Auction House as a reason to avoid systems of this nature. Blizzard has endless amounts of employees to correct and monitor flow of currency, and WoW's currency is devalued beyond repair now. Imagine what damage could be done under our highly motivated and productive but understaffed dev team?
Leave this one alone, your time is best spent in 1,000 other directions this is a horrible horrible idea, as I hope I clearly illustrated just a sampling of potential downfalls to it.
In conclusion: Dancing Broccoli
Further Conclusion: If you want to, Mark runes to your vendors and submit them to the US-based search sites. It doesn't benefit them if you just shop in Luna, and they seem to be trying to fix this problem..I think too much vilification takes place here sometimes, which hinders logical thought.
My coffee has gone cold, but I really hope I helped some people understand everything a bit more clearly,
xo
Allie
)I'm going to do my best to clear up and hopefully help everyone see things a bit clearer, without fighting!
Misconception: Luna Vendors are the only vendors on Search Sites! unfair!
The US-based "Search" sites are actually running a promotion to get all of the outside of Luna vendors added in their search engine. Heck I submitted 7 books worth of runes (you can thank me later LS!
)The only one that doesn't is that Russian one that spams up general chat.
Misconception: A global vendor search in-game can't be abused any more than the systems we have now!
This is by far the most dangerous misconception floating around. An in-game vendor search would allow people to write programs and routines to completely monopolize and ruin ANY specific product market they chose to.
Further explanation and scenario: Joe is a programmer by trade and wants to capitalize on this new in-game search. Since our in-game client(s) have been deconstructed and 3rd party applications exist to utilize functions at the lowest level of communication, Joe has a fairly easy job ahead of him!
He makes 1 mage on each shard, and since Joe is extremely wealthy (from all of the wood he farms), they're suited up very well (wouldn't want dead bots would you?)
Joe writes a routine that starts with Entering a specific:
Item Name or Item Type
Buy Price
Sell Price
The routine runs the command for accessing the in-game vendor search
It searches for the type/name he was looking for and rips the results or just reads via OCR.
It searches for all instances where Buy Price would be satisfied, and saves the coords to those vendors.
Onto sub routine!
Vendor recalls to various 'near-by' locations (If Coords = "Near Skara" , Recall to Rune 1, Book 1 for example)
Time to stealth!
Character stealth walks(in Ninja form for added speed) from location A to Vendor via legal approved mapping software and a fairly advanced, but already written and publicly available anti-block routine.
End result: Joe just bought that Ornament of the Magician for 5m under vendor price. HOORAY for JOE!
But when Joe's bot was done he also got the Ornament that was 4m under his Sell Price, and 3m under his Sell Price. All while he was at work, and left his bot to run!
"But everyone has ornaments, noob! Who cares!" Ok , well what about that Splintering 30% Kryss that just dropped from shame/wrong? Oh, you never got to see it because Joe had a bot running a routine to buy all splintering 25%+ Kryss'..
Technology is neat sometimes.
Now that clearly seems like a problem, right? That's ONE instance for one static non-disposable item, with ONE botter. Imagine a situation where at least 30-50 high end players had bots setup to do this?
That's all low end hypothetically, since the cost of setting these characters up is about 5m per mage.
This also isn't even a worst case scenario, this is just the average run of the mill "if this system becomes in-game everyone is going to be running this" system. A(and probably not the only) worst case scenario is where the extremely rich have runes marked all over the place to vendor shops, and can scalp full lists of products all day. No interaction, and no chance for the average player to ever pay anything but what is dictated by someone's Bot system.
The market would be CONTROLLED, the market would be RUINED.
None of this is AS possible (not even close) with having the search ran on a website. Even if it's by a 3rd party.
I'm fairly certain that our Dev Team understands this and sees what happened to WoW's Auction House as a reason to avoid systems of this nature. Blizzard has endless amounts of employees to correct and monitor flow of currency, and WoW's currency is devalued beyond repair now. Imagine what damage could be done under our highly motivated and productive but understaffed dev team?
Leave this one alone, your time is best spent in 1,000 other directions this is a horrible horrible idea, as I hope I clearly illustrated just a sampling of potential downfalls to it.
In conclusion: Dancing Broccoli
Further Conclusion: If you want to, Mark runes to your vendors and submit them to the US-based search sites. It doesn't benefit them if you just shop in Luna, and they seem to be trying to fix this problem..I think too much vilification takes place here sometimes, which hinders logical thought.
My coffee has gone cold, but I really hope I helped some people understand everything a bit more clearly,
xo
Allie
Well, that search site has allowed for runes to be submitted to non Luna shops for a long time. It's certainly nothing new.
That doesn't change the fact that many players' moral compass won't allow them to use the site because it uses that program which cannot be named to collect it's data.
As for the rest of your post, it's a bunch of bunk.
That doesn't change the fact that many players' moral compass won't allow them to use the site because it uses that program which cannot be named to collect it's data.
As for the rest of your post, it's a bunch of bunk.
This statement almost feels like a troll. You didn't quote all of my post...and then took it out of context to try and discredit the information and proposition I made. Naturally, I would never ask for all Wilderness Vendors to REALLY TRULY get a search engine ONLY...it was a Comparison...a hypothetical way to test the validity oif your assertion that it is ONLY the location of Luna and Zento that make them so successful. I hope that makes sense. I know it does...to most. No need to *shake your head* really. Just read my whole post and it makes a LOT more sense I believe.
The point was: Does the Search Engine providing Luna, Zento, and an exceedingly small number of Wilderness Houses a huge advantage over others the real reason that Luna and Zento are able to charge so much more than Wilderness Vendors, or is it JUST the location of Luna and Zento, with no other considerations that allow for their unmatched success in selling and charging an arm and a leg for what they sell?
OK...I will explain again...the flip flop proposed was Hypothetical...used to make a point...I didn't ask for it as The Solution or anything...I wanted to Compare the Search Engine versus Location. I can explain it further if you need me to. Hopefully now you understand. Clearly...I wasn't asking to have this done...you are Insistent that it is Location, not the Search Engine that affords Luna it's advantage, and I disagree...respectfully.
As do I and have stated it many times in this thread. You had JUST made the point in the post I replied to that you quoted out of context...that it was Location that afforded Luna it's advantage, and I disagreed...respectfully. You may want to really go read my post, Kylie...you were WAY off base with your reply, I can assure you.
Currently, that is ALL a Luna or Zento vendor need do...just stock their Vendor and the Search Engine currently available ONLY in Luna, Zento and an extremely small number of Wilderness Vendors will do the rest.
This is the problem, and I will say it again, bolded this time for your edification:
I do NOT want a Search Engine for just one area of the game. It should be all or none. And since Luna and Zento DO have a Search Engine, and since Luna and Zento Search Engine cannot be made to go away, then I recommend a simple Search Engine for every vendor...not JUST Luna and Zento, that will show players where they can get desired items, and then the players would travel to that Vendor House to get their goods on their own, without Insta-Buy or Insta-Gate or whatever...they go there through normal game mechanics.
Precisely...and so...lol...all Luna and Zento vendors STILL have the Search Engine, and very, very, very, very, very few Wilderness Vendors enjoy the same ease of selling and lack of effort to drive business to their vendors as the people WITH the search engine currently.
So...please...do me and i am sure all readers of this thread a BIG favor...
Do NOT quote me out of context and then act like you have a cogent response. That will not work on this poster, I can absolutely assure you.
So...really...you have nothing to lose by allowing a game wide search engine, right? It would just help out the Wilderness vendors and level that playing field, yes? You can help support high priced vendors, while the game would "Level the Playing Field" and allow equal competition for ALL vendors.
*Shakes Head* That is a rhetorical statement...substitute "Man" or "Business" for "TRUE merchants" and the outcome is the same...we are a persistent and creative species, for sure.
You are assuming that MOST players in the game will do what you are espousing here. That is not borne out by where most of the business in UO currently gets done. Most people will not spend a mil more to just step out of a pre-existing moongate to buy their wares at very high prices. You might, indeed, but most, I am very certain, will not do this.
You say it's Location, and I say it is LARGELY the Search Engine that drives business to Luna and Zento FAR more than Location. That is what I was saying in my previous post that you quoted out of context.
The ONLY way to REALLY prove it (DISCLAIMER - I am not REALLY asking for ONLY Wilderness Search Engine...it is Hypothetical to make a Point) is to reverse who has the Search Engine and see if all things stay the same with ONLY Wilderness Vendors having the Search ability, and NO LUna or Zento vendors having the same capability. That was the point of my previously poorly quoted response to you.
I do NOT believe that the people wanting to buy things would still go to Luna or Zento just on the location if there was NO Search Engine in Luna and Zento, and ONLY Wilderness Vendors had that function. I will say it again:
I could be wrong, but I really do not believe I am far off on this at all.
Nice post Surgeries. I too noticed how your "hypothetical" situation was twisted into supposedly advocating a non Luna search. Duh! It's like he didn't even read the whole post. It certainly didn't register.
Hi Bleak. Care to comment? Anything really.
LOL - I was thinking the same thing Zeke. He called both of us 'name callers' and I fail to see a single name called in either of our posts. Unless he is referring to the fact that we call him a Luna Vendor which is what he is. I guess if you feel that it 'name calling'....
So...you are OK with giving your location to a knowingly cheating web site, to further your cause? I see.Hey! First post, lost my stratics account (but not my Castle , ty EA!
I'm going to do my best to clear up and hopefully help everyone see things a bit clearer, without fighting!
Misconception: Luna Vendors are the only vendors on Search Sites! unfair!
The US-based "Search" sites are actually running a promotion to get all of the outside of Luna vendors added in their search engine. Heck I submitted 7 books worth of runes (you can thank me later LS!
The only one that doesn't is that Russian one that spams up general chat.
Right...and when, because ALL vendors are visible, ALL Ornaments are priced within 100K of each other or so, because no one has the "Fog of War" (i.e. the ability to buy WAY lower than the market) then that would make your entire Dooms Day scenario pretty much invalid. Joe's Bot would have to settle for a MUCH smaller margin, and could find out that his Bot isn't quite as effective as you postulate. I will leave out the rest of the "Joe Hypotheses", based purely on the fact that for YOUR scenario to work, the people selling would have to not really ever look at what other multimillion gp items are selling for and just throwing them on a vendor without regard for the market...a market that would be visible to all with a global search.
If the Bots buy my goods at my prices, and my prices are equitable and competitively priced in the market...would I care? MY Market would be awesome! And anyone doing a search would see:
Joe has Item A at a 30% mark up over Surgeries Vendors, which are located at (Enter Location Here).
And I am betting that Joe would choke on his higher priced widgets, whilst I make more widgets, and put them on my vendor...again...at a price point that suits me and the cycle repeats. If they are REALLY popular widgets, then MANY would be selling (and likely buying up for resale as well) making the market even broader and more difficult to totally dominate.
No one that I see here is asking for a central purchasing area or any auction house that is centralized per se. Some want insta-transport to the vendors, but even that wouldn't be needed in my opinion.
My conclusion differs greatly from yours. Mine is an equitable "all or none" system that allows complete visibility to all vendors in Sosaria, and that will level the playing field which is currently dominated by the folks with the Search Engine.Leave this one alone, your time is best spent in 1,000 other directions this is a horrible horrible idea, as I hope I clearly illustrated just a sampling of potential downfalls to it.
In conclusion: Dancing Broccoli
So...you are really OK with using a site that is know to use illegal methods to glean their info...and you encourage others to help support these same sites?
You are quickly losing any credence and cogency your argument may merit in my opinion. Not that it matters all that much. But still...
Interesting read so far.
Allright allright. Touche. I got a good laugh at least.Interesting read so far.
Sorry...
Stated differently:
If ONLY Wilderness Vendors had the Search Function, I believe that Wilderness Vendors would benefit more from them being the ONLY demographic with a Search Engine, than Luna Vendors or Zento Vendors garner being all in one spot WITHOUT a Search Engine to benefit their business.
In other words...I think we would see a HUGE shift to shopping searchable Wilderness Vendors if that Demographic (Wilderness Vendors) were the ONLY way to search a vendor thus, than going to Luna or Zento, where a person would have to open every vendor and back pack by clicking, as you have to do now to shop at Wilderness Vendors that do not have a Search Function.
I hope that makes sense.
Surgeries,
While I can't help you comprehend market dynamics anymore than my Joe scenario can help you program at an advanced level, I feel as if I must move on to more logic driven users. I feel as if you may be grasping at straws, and to completely disregard the comparison to "1 off" items, such as the Splintering Kryss, allows me to rest my explanation to you with full confidence you understand the serious flaws, albeit unfortunately disproving your stance.
I do hope, as a whole, the users understand the potential downsides, and found my explanation useful.(edit: didn't finish sentence!! was getting coffee)
As outlined in my previous scenario, this system would by default be extremely exploited.
It'd allow every single desirable item to be automatically grabbed via bot. From EM Items, to Weapons and Armor, to commodity price fixing at a much more efficient level than currently possible.
These are the potential downsides, that I can forecast on a Saturday morning. Imagine the potential for serious issues given some time to really think it through, by people with far worse intentions than a lady and her cat
At best you would be able to turn it off and say "yeesh that didn't work".
At worst you would end up with an extremely broken economy, outraged players completely helpless and disheartened, and a large amount of time spent correcting an issue that as it stands, is not present.
I think the majority of players would agree your time is best spent on far more important things. The EM Content is good, we've got bug fixes coming out all the time, you've revamped Wrong and Shame, but there's alot of things that need overhauling in UO, that currently do not help us maintain or grow players.
Fix resource scripting : limit the amount of wood/ore a character can mine/jack in a day. Limit the amount of crafted products (ie. Shadow Heater Sheilds, circa 2003, and whatever people are crafting and selling to NPCs for gold from the Wood they script now)
Improve the dueling arena, and the enjoyment of factions for players.
Fix Sampires so groups are encouraged again, rather than 1 person solo'ing UO. This would promote guild hunting again, and would help to keep active players on each night.
If you want to integrate something into UO, please integrate the information (but cleaned up and improved) found on Stratics and UOGuide, into an in-game information system.
Want to learn what Blood Drinker does? Type it in and learn, while you're looking at the weapon in question.
We need players, we need continual growth and sustainability. The learning curve can be steep, but sites such as Stratics and UOGuide do a great job of bringing that down a bit, and you can integrate that to as well.
These are areas of actual importance, and I hope you can agree on some of these points.
Best,
Allie
While I can't help you comprehend market dynamics anymore than my Joe scenario can help you program at an advanced level, I feel as if I must move on to more logic driven users. I feel as if you may be grasping at straws, and to completely disregard the comparison to "1 off" items, such as the Splintering Kryss, allows me to rest my explanation to you with full confidence you understand the serious flaws, albeit unfortunately disproving your stance.
I do hope, as a whole, the users understand the potential downsides, and found my explanation useful.(edit: didn't finish sentence!! was getting coffee)
Bleak,Interesting read so far.
As outlined in my previous scenario, this system would by default be extremely exploited.
It'd allow every single desirable item to be automatically grabbed via bot. From EM Items, to Weapons and Armor, to commodity price fixing at a much more efficient level than currently possible.
These are the potential downsides, that I can forecast on a Saturday morning. Imagine the potential for serious issues given some time to really think it through, by people with far worse intentions than a lady and her cat
At best you would be able to turn it off and say "yeesh that didn't work".
At worst you would end up with an extremely broken economy, outraged players completely helpless and disheartened, and a large amount of time spent correcting an issue that as it stands, is not present.
I think the majority of players would agree your time is best spent on far more important things. The EM Content is good, we've got bug fixes coming out all the time, you've revamped Wrong and Shame, but there's alot of things that need overhauling in UO, that currently do not help us maintain or grow players.
Fix resource scripting : limit the amount of wood/ore a character can mine/jack in a day. Limit the amount of crafted products (ie. Shadow Heater Sheilds, circa 2003, and whatever people are crafting and selling to NPCs for gold from the Wood they script now)
Improve the dueling arena, and the enjoyment of factions for players.
Fix Sampires so groups are encouraged again, rather than 1 person solo'ing UO. This would promote guild hunting again, and would help to keep active players on each night.
If you want to integrate something into UO, please integrate the information (but cleaned up and improved) found on Stratics and UOGuide, into an in-game information system.
Want to learn what Blood Drinker does? Type it in and learn, while you're looking at the weapon in question.
We need players, we need continual growth and sustainability. The learning curve can be steep, but sites such as Stratics and UOGuide do a great job of bringing that down a bit, and you can integrate that to as well.
These are areas of actual importance, and I hope you can agree on some of these points.
Best,
Allie
Thanks. Understood! ( a morning coffee helps too ..)
You were presenting a case-senerio where 'IF' vendor-search-engine was not allowed with-in city limits and restricted to wilderness vendors only .. Yes. Under those circumstances, players would use the wilderness search-engine more because having to search through vendor bags in the cities would be time consuming.
- - but it wouldn't stop city vendors from eventually setting up their high priced operations in the wilderness houses and using the system to their advantage ...which allie_oops post #186 goes to great length to explain.
All that aside, I think we agree that we haven't yet reached any viable way of searching Vendors efficiently without having the system exploited.
...this thread is like someone said about another thread being like the energizer bunny .. keeps going and going and going ..
You were presenting a case-senerio where 'IF' vendor-search-engine was not allowed with-in city limits and restricted to wilderness vendors only .. Yes. Under those circumstances, players would use the wilderness search-engine more because having to search through vendor bags in the cities would be time consuming.
- - but it wouldn't stop city vendors from eventually setting up their high priced operations in the wilderness houses and using the system to their advantage ...which allie_oops post #186 goes to great length to explain.
All that aside, I think we agree that we haven't yet reached any viable way of searching Vendors efficiently without having the system exploited.
...this thread is like someone said about another thread being like the energizer bunny .. keeps going and going and going ..
But that already happens with the current searches that are available. If it's not the people running the bots, there are people who use the search site to consistently search the possible vendors for items that are in demand to buy/sell.
This is a dynamic in every online game I have played that has a player controlled market place. To use it as an argument against having a vendor search system is a fallacy. Legal or illegal, because of the existence of a search site, it happens.
There is also already price fixing. To the guys that sit in gen chat all day and buy/sell to the people to run around to vendors and buy up their wares to stock on their vendors.
And really, looking at what is currently possible with Luna, who is to say that someone isn't running bots all over looking for those vendors already?
*on a side note= it's really nice to see a thread I started go like it has, I love the discussion here.
Ah yes...I see. I am not "Logic Driven" enough for you. I understand completely. Let me try to redeem myself, if that's possible by being more explanatory concerning your krysses.
I spent five years as a stock broker. I am intimately familiar with market dynamics, floats, insider shares, how warrants and potential effect on float and demand might work and all around speculation as much as many people are. You won't have to spend one second explaining it to me, I promise.
Oh my. You get to rest nothing based on what little argument you presented. I disregarded it based solely on it's glaring lack of validity and objectivity. You can substitute "Splintering Kryss" with any Search Parameter item you would like. Arrows. Crimson Cinctures. Runic Armor...it doesn't matter. The moment every single person can see precisely what is for sale and for how much and where...no "Fog of War" as I mentioned earlier...then the Market will determine the price.
Your scenario might work if there were only so many splintering weapons. But there is literally an endless and soon to be increasing supply of them. So, to find Bots that are doing what you describe (which of course is Illegal) would also be incredibly easy...for a Developer...or for anyone that can see that (The Bot Vendor) vendors have every single splintering kryss that is for sale, and no one else has any, and (The Bot Vendor)is charging an arm and a leg.
(The Bot Vendor) could be doing every transaction in person and at their computer, theoretically, but it would show fairly quickly to anyone looking who could be (The Bot Vendor) and who is likely truly doing real transactions. By the way...if someone wants to physically run around and buy up every kryss, I say go for it. That IS what the trade should be about.
Any item that can be farmed or made can be produced or obtained forever, in varying degrees of desirability concerning magical and loot items, but unless the item is a true Rare or something available in very small quantities, and not able to be procured through normal game play, cornering the market in a global search would be far more difficult than I believe you are considering.
The moment everyone knows where all splintering krysses are, and the number of krysses available and know exactly how much less they could pay for a similar kryss at a different, non-bot vendor...customers will logically go buy the item that best fits their needs at the lowest price possible. At least, this would seem to make sense...from a Logical point of view.
But...if some speculator thinks "Well...I will just buy up ALL those other krysses showing when I search for splintering krysses"...they may momentarily gain some "edge" in that they have most, if not all of the krysses available...right then...at that moment.
But as soon as someone sees that someone ((The Bot Vendor) or anybody else) bought up all of the splintering krysses they had for sale, then they would just go hunting in dungeons that drop these items as loot. Then they can replenish their supply and charge a slightly higher price making the time spent hunting them even more profitable.
Then (The Bot Vendor)...who shows up in the hypothetical global search as having LOTS of highly priced splintering krysses, and the best ones are very very high priced...is also listed next to much lower priced but somewhat similar items in the search for splintering krysses...the buyer will logically pick what suits them best. That may or may not be the splintering krysses offered by (The Bot Vendor)...but it could be. More than likely, though, they will pick a lower priced but fairly similar item (and as they can see every single splintering kryss for sale, this would be a breeze) and go buy that item.
In the meantime, without splintering krysses being limited in their drops, the market could stay viable, as long as people kept getting them as loot and putting them on vendors. A lot of the krysses bought by (The Bot Vendor) would be sitting as inventory on their vendor, while it is most logical to assume that all of the Non-Bot vendors would be making money hand over fist...from (The Bot Vendor) who is buying up whatever they put out at whatever they charge, within the purchasing parameters the (The Bot Vendor) is following as well as any sales from people who found theirt lower priced splintering krysses on the hypothetical global search, and went to their vendor instead of (The Bot Vendor).
But (The Bot Vendor) always has to resell items higher than the person they just bought it from...and the person they just bought it from gets the gold...and (The Bot Vendor) gets more and more and more of these items...and less and less gold.
Then when anyone runs a search for splintering krysses (and in this scenario everyone can see everything...Global Search remember), they see that (The Bot Vendor) has a ton of splintering Krysses...WAY more than anyone else...and they also see eight other vendors or whatever (the ones that (The Bot Vendor) is supporting by (The Bot Vendor)'s rampant purchasing of all splintering krysses) that all have smaller amounts of krysses at prices lower than (The Bot Vendor).
Although the non-bot vendor items may not be quite as nice as (The Bot Vendor) has in inventory (although possibly sometimes even better depending on time of day) because (The Bot Vendor) bought up all the previous krysses, they can see the other Non-Bot vendors are priced less, and they can see all of the ones available, all at once before they go buy what they want. At this juncture, (The Bot Vendor) could "corner" the market, put all other vendors out of business, and win UO.
However...the more (The Bot Vendor) engages in this activity, the easier it would be to track down the bots that make it all possible...the Bots That Ruin the Economy as I have heard it put.
If (The Bot Vendor) WAS using bots to accomplish this heinous destruction of the market...then (The Bot Vendor) would soon be out of business, as the account doing these things would hopefully get boycotted by people purchasing splintering krysses as well as hopefully banned by EA/Mythic.
How's that for logic utilizing the poor under recognized splintering krysses? The bottom line is that the Buy Low and Sell High becomes much more difficult, logically speaking, when everyone in the market can see every item and every price. It is only when the resellers have sources that are priced quite a bit less than they charge (like the crafting items that Petra and Jade produce that get completely bought out all the time by resellers) that the reseller can buy out and then resell at their much higher prices (because a search on the site that uses illegal methods to do their business...the site you knowingly support through your donation of complete rune books to get the "Luna Edge" as I will call it henceforth)...yields only people in Luna or Zento...and their higher prices...not Petra or Jade...where they could buy the same items at a lower price but don't because Petra and Jade's vendors are not as readily visible as Luna Vendors on a current search.
In other words...people will tend to pay the lower price even if it means a little more work (as is well documented and evidenced by coupons and traveling to different stores IRL for a "Bargain") as long as they have access to the information (like Sunday paper circulars for different stores sorta deal). This is just simple logic.
It is always good to look at downsides. It is far more important to me to be objective, and look at all angles. To say that some items could have their market "cornered" by a global search does have some validity. To assume that anyone has enough clout and gold to completely corner the market on anything but extremely limited quantity items doesn't hold water in my opinion. (The Bot Vendor) would end up choking on inventory most times and especially over time, while their cash reserves dwindle. Non-Bot Vendors could charge what they want, and know immediately whether their prices are competitive or not.
With that knowledge, buy outs by resellers would either be less frequent, or less lucrative per transaction, as long as people who have vendors utilize the global search to make it so.
And currently, Only Luna and Zento and very few others have the benefits given by a global search. Unless someone wants to knowingly give their vendor info to a site that uses known cheating methods to provide the Global Search, they are at a disadvantage, and it is simply not fair. It would be far easier to stop your Vendor Bots in the UO game than to shut down the search site that currently exists.
That, too...is Simple Logic.
Just look at all the IDOCs -> What we have now is not working
Stop catering to the 5%, the resellers and RMTers, and cater to the 95%.
Making it easier to sell things at market value -> means more players will sell things -> means more players will stay longer
Stop catering to the 5%, the resellers and RMTers, and cater to the 95%.
Making it easier to sell things at market value -> means more players will sell things -> means more players will stay longer
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