In Game Vendor Seach, Databases and problems and my solution

[Eric Ravenwind]

I'm on board.. My Vote Is "YES"!!1

 

[startle]

I have news... most people use the search vendor... and that is way there are 10000 gems deeds. Is that what you want for the whole land?

You say "most people use the search vendor". Well, as you know, the current "search vendors" ONLY gives us vendor inventory for Luna and Zento (which btw are where YOUR vendors are) and a Sosaria-wide vendor system would mean that your vendors would actually have a LOT of in-game competition.....

You STILL haven't listed a single reason as to WHY you think it's a bad idea? WHY ARE YOU AGAINST IT?

 

[startle]

Its not needed. You subscribe to the fact you should have all instantly in game. Sometimes the game is about well playing the game and not just signing in to get all you want in an hour.

Try the test center. Its fun.

A vendor site or ingame database is not needed. End of story.

And so, folks, this is RavenWinterHawk's "reason" for all of his big long posts AGAINST having something that - if you could ask ALL UO players - would garner probably 95% of the vote FOR a Sosaria-wide vendor system. RWH says "It's not needed". "End of Story".

Well, RWH it may be the end of YOUR story, but hopefully not everyone that reads this thread will agree. In fact, I can not think of a SINGLE REASON for NOT having a Sosaria-wide vendor search system in place - with ONE OBVIOUS EXCEPTION. And that exception is "we don't need one" coming from people that DON'T WANT COMPETION for their current Luna/Zento vendors. These people simply complain loudly "It's not needed", but we know why you feel this way.

 

[sherkborg]

I should restate my explanation since you think I want instant items within an hour.

Why should in a game I have to hunt for hours, get supplies, level a crafter, build my stuff and take weeks and months to do it? Why cant I just farm and pay someone to do the other half?

Now whats the difference between logging in and asking in chat or for direction to a guy who sells my gear vs a website?

Explain that and you might have a reason to not do this. However if I can go into chat and ask and a guy says north luna. Done, just like the website without even having them. Explore the lands? How about I do that now. search website says my item is in a vendor house 20 screens north of luna that no one knows about. Ok I go run there. Buy my item. Did I not just explore the land?

Im not a shopper, I dont like sims online and im not going to shop for millions of hours for an item. Its why there was britain bank mass spam selling back in the day, its why there were vendor malls of condense vendors and its why we have luna and search websites now. WE DONT WANT TO WASTE TIME LOOKING. If you do, your a minority rounded down to 0%. No one likes to search and wander around aimlessly. Those people are an exception which shouldnt exist, there a niche which shouldnt be accounted for. Even if there was a ingame search, what stops those niche people from not using it and just wandering hte land still? Explain pls all you nay sayers and luna sellers.

 

[Jade of Sonoma]

For years I have always had 26 plant vendors in my shop on Arctic Is. namely Arctic Gardens. Also scribe/bard/tinker/carpenter items. Players had no problem finding my shop because it gained a good reputation. In 2006, A friend let me have his shop in Luna City so I moved my Scribe Vendors to Luna and amongst other scribe items, sold full 64 spell books for 5K each. I sold T-maps cheap plus all kinds of other items players need, but...

Recently I dismissed all my vendors in the Luna Shop except for the Librarian who sells runes to Rune Libraries. I will go back to selling from a home somewhere else in Sosaria eventually. Why? Because --

One night my stealther happened to be nearby when a player bought, not only all my empty and full city/dungeon/gate/shrine rune books, necromancer books etc.. but all of the full 64 Spell books @ 5K each from my vendors. These the player took immediately to another Luna shop where the player proceeded to put those spell books on their vendor @ 75K. each.

No other vendors in Luna City could be found selling serious scribe items and full spell books anywhere. I checked. I wasn't the only one being bought out. Those spell books did sell for that high 75K price and, as such, were probably recorded on the existing LUNA Vendor Search Engine for everyone to locate - - while my cheaper books and other items of my hard work were never recorded because nothing was left on my vendors at their low prices for everyone to locate.
And that's when I decided to stop doing all that work just so others could come along, snap it all up, and make a huge profit without doing any work.

Yes. Players should ask on General chat for help with such items. Yes. Players should ask other players where to buy things they need and who to contact.

Does anyone seriously want to let the buyers who buy low and sell high, know where all the reasonably priced items on vendors throughout the land can be quickly and easily located?

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

For years I have always had 26 plant vendors in my shop on Arctic Is. namely Arctic Gardens. Also scribe/bard/tinker/carpenter items. Players had no problem finding my shop because it gained a good reputation. In 2006, A friend let me have his shop in Luna City so I moved my Scribe Vendors to Luna and amongst other scribe items, sold full 64 spell books for 5K each. I sold T-maps cheap plus all kinds of other items players need, but...

Recently I dismissed all my vendors in the Luna Shop except for the Librarian who sells runes to Rune Libraries. I will go back to selling from a home somewhere else in Sosaria eventually. Why? Because --

One night my stealther happened to be nearby when a player bought, not only all my empty and full city/dungeon/gate/shrine rune books, necromancer books etc.. but all of the full 64 Spell books @ 5K each from my vendors. These the player took immediately to another Luna shop where the player proceeded to put those spell books on their vendor @ 75K. each.

No other vendors in Luna City could be found selling serious scribe items and full spell books anywhere. I checked. I wasn't the only one being bought out. Those spell books did sell for that high 75K price and, as such, were probably recorded on the existing LUNA Vendor Search Engine for everyone to locate - - while my cheaper books and other items of my hard work were never recorded because nothing was left on my vendors at their low prices for everyone to locate.
And that's when I decided to stop doing all that work just so others could come along, snap it all up, and make a huge profit without doing any work.

Yes. Players should ask on General chat for help with such items. Yes. Players should ask other players where to buy things they need and who to contact.

Does anyone seriously want to let the buyers who buy low and sell high, know where all the reasonably priced items on vendors throughout the land can be quickly and easily located?

Perfect example. With a search, I just need to collect and reprice. One player could acquire everything of something when in demand.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

I should restate my explanation since you think I want instant items within an hour.

Why should in a game I have to hunt for hours, get supplies, level a crafter, build my stuff and take weeks and months to do it? Why cant I just farm and pay someone to do the other half?

Now whats the difference between logging in and asking in chat or for direction to a guy who sells my gear vs a website?

Explain that and you might have a reason to not do this. However if I can go into chat and ask and a guy says north luna. Done, just like the website without even having them. Explore the lands? How about I do that now. search website says my item is in a vendor house 20 screens north of luna that no one knows about. Ok I go run there. Buy my item. Did I not just explore the land?

Im not a shopper, I dont like sims online and im not going to shop for millions of hours for an item. Its why there was britain bank mass spam selling back in the day, its why there were vendor malls of condense vendors and its why we have luna and search websites now. WE DONT WANT TO WASTE TIME LOOKING. If you do, your a minority rounded down to 0%. No one likes to search and wander around aimlessly. Those people are an exception which shouldnt exist, there a niche which shouldnt be accounted for. Even if there was a ingame search, what stops those niche people from not using it and just wandering hte land still? Explain pls all you nay sayers and luna sellers.

1st off you don't have to hunt for hours.

2nd off you can create a characture to collect or make your supplies. That is the game

3rd off you consider it a waste of time, I considered game play

4th off you can collect runes. I know for a fact at least a half a dozen well equipped shops with EVERYTHING from stools to regs drop runes weekly on my shard.

5th off I dont understand you comment about paying someone. But...

6th off why play a game with people if you want to search everything from one spot. The difference is I can abuse you search system in 5 seconds. You can search... but I will have the hot items. The difference is by asking players versus a search point, you can't monopolize in a flash.

7th off No you didnt just explore the land. I already bought that item because I got up a 6 AM. It is now in Ter Mur for 50% more.

8th off WAIT I LOVE THIS SEARCH IDEA... I can drop my luna vendors. Monopolize the game on Monday. JACK up prices on my Ter Mur Vendors and make sure you all have access to all you need. Sure you'll have to pay double but it is easier for you. Im providing a service.

 

[startle]

1st off you don't have to hunt for hours..

You've lost your grip on reality, RWH, if you really believe that....

8th off WAIT I LOVE THIS SEARCH IDEA... I can drop my luna vendors. Monopolize the game on Monday. JACK up prices on my Ter Mur Vendors and make sure you all have access to all you need. Sure you'll have to pay double but it is easier for you. Im providing a service.

Here you've said it all... Your LUNA VENDORS (that are already listed on the vendor search sites that list ONLY Luna/Zento vendors)... And your "argument" that a game-wide vendor search listing would allow people like YOU to run around at 6am buying up everything and re-selling it for higher prices is just too ridiculous to comment on... Laughable...

Go check your Luna vendors, RWH, we're having a serious conversation here, and we ALL KNOW why you think a game-wide vendor search is a bad idea...
:whip:

 

[sherkborg]

1st off it takes me hours to hunt. To get gold, resources, essances, im looking at multiple days. Sorry your 30mill sampire and ur 10 hours a day can do it quicker but I cant. I run a tamer and it takes me a while. Takes me days to get resources.

2nd off Im not interested in sampires thanks.

3rd off Thats where were all different. You like sampires and shopping. I like hunting and non sampires. So when im spending my time hunting I dont want to shop. When your spending your time doing nothing, of course shopping is awesome.

4th off Im not keeping a small rune library for vendors. Sorry not going to happen. If my friends cant make it, and I cant find it in general chat I assume it doesnt exist.

5th off My comment was saying, what if I hunt dragons for 5 hours, bank the cash and leather and then with that gold and leather pay someone with resources + cash to make me a suit. See how that works? I would rather hunt then craft yet in the end we all win.

6th off Try buying me out and reselling. I will flood the market so fast you will net a loss. People who sell low are nice people but if your rebuying and reselling items, then your just taking advantage of someone and it will happen, but people like me, you can never out sell me because I have stockpiles of what I sell and just out sell you. It happens right now, I control the market on a few items because I have lots. If you think one person is going to buy EVERY thing cheap and resell, great maybe they will but it wont happen lots and it wont happen for every item. Even then if you make an item and sell it for 5k and it sells out, you should sell for 10k. If it sells out again, how about 15k When it stops being sold out (a guy mass buying you) then your at a close price and making good money. You keep supplying at that price and the guy whose buying out your items, he has millions of them and cant get them sold because you always sell for a tad bit cheaper and make them as you go. Its simple and it happens now.

7th off Great you made 50% more. Only happened once from my experience where an item wasnt there because it was already bought out. Even at that, no harm done. I know the guy listed it lower and your selling higher. I dont buy your higher price because I know its over priced and I just wait a day or so until another pops up at the proper price. Thus you lose.

8th off Do it. You and everyone else thinks that and it just stimulates the economy ingame which is always a good thing.

 

[Rupert Avery]

we ALL KNOW why you think a game-wide vendor search is a bad idea...
:whip:

you keep making statements like this...
RWH does have a good point as this type of thing already happens.. so why is it laughable?
for me I see the merit in having one but I am not blinded by the fact I want an easy life and can see the reasons why it would be a bad idea a perfect example is RWH's in saying that people would get up early buy all the cheaper stuff and re sell at higher prices it already happens as has been mentioned earlier in the thread.

I don't think anyone's opinion is crazy as everyone see's things differently.. but perhaps you could take a step back from the thread and realise this for yourself?

 

[Rupert Avery]

1st off it takes me hours to hunt. To get gold, resources, essances, im looking at multiple days. Sorry your 30mill sampire and ur 10 hours a day can do it quicker but I cant. I run a tamer and it takes me a while. Takes me days to get resources.

2nd off Im not interested in sampires thanks.

3rd off Thats where were all different. You like sampires and shopping. I like hunting and non sampires. So when im spending my time hunting I dont want to shop. When your spending your time doing nothing, of course shopping is awesome.

4th off Im not keeping a small rune library for vendors. Sorry not going to happen. If my friends cant make it, and I cant find it in general chat I assume it doesnt exist.

5th off My comment was saying, what if I hunt dragons for 5 hours, bank the cash and leather and then with that gold and leather pay someone with resources + cash to make me a suit. See how that works? I would rather hunt then craft yet in the end we all win.

6th off Try buying me out and reselling. I will flood the market so fast you will net a loss. People who sell low are nice people but if your rebuying and reselling items, then your just taking advantage of someone and it will happen, but people like me, you can never out sell me because I have stockpiles of what I sell and just out sell you. It happens right now, I control the market on a few items because I have lots. If you think one person is going to buy EVERY thing cheap and resell, great maybe they will but it wont happen lots and it wont happen for every item. Even then if you make an item and sell it for 5k and it sells out, you should sell for 10k. If it sells out again, how about 15k When it stops being sold out (a guy mass buying you) then your at a close price and making good money. You keep supplying at that price and the guy whose buying out your items, he has millions of them and cant get them sold because you always sell for a tad bit cheaper and make them as you go. Its simple and it happens now.

7th off Great you made 50% more. Only happened once from my experience where an item wasnt there because it was already bought out. Even at that, no harm done. I know the guy listed it lower and your selling higher. I dont buy your higher price because I know its over priced and I just wait a day or so until another pops up at the proper price. Thus you lose.

8th off Do it. You and everyone else thinks that and it just stimulates the economy ingame which is always a good thing.

I think RWH is being sarcastic considering all the way through the thread he has said this is a bad Idea....

 

[elspeth]

I have played WoW and I have used such in-game search tools before. This buying low and selling high does indeed happen with such tools. In fact, it might be like adding a whole new profession to UO (its the closest WoW gets to a crafter mule) except that as Jade has pointed out, there is some degree of it already happening. Like potgut says, there are vendor search tools already. They just aren't going to get every single vendor at every single house like an official one should. So sure, an official one will allow the unscrupulous ones to find the deals but the important thing is it would give an equal chance to everyone of finding those deals as well. Without the tool, its possible such a person would find your vendors and then start buying them out every day and no one else would really ever even have a chance at finding them.

Now, I think if there was a vendor search tool, that it would encourage more people to place vendors at their homes and things would get spread out more instead of having large vendor malls and everything in Luna, etc. If everyone could set up a vendor or two and not have to spend a large amount of time advertising it to get some hits and sales, then it just might be that most everyone would do it. The main reason I don't have a bunch of vendors at my house to sell my excess stuff is because of the time I'd have to spend advertising it. With this increased supply, it would become increasingly harder for the unscrupulous ones to buy out everything cheap. Especially, if different people are stocking their vendors at different times and the search tool is automatically updated (or at least every 5 minutes perhaps). Thus there would be a balance struck. Also, the tool could include a history and show what items have been selling for in the past x number of hours. Then people could also see if a lot of cheap stuff is getting bought up and they might decide not to buy from the expensive people and wait till they manage to catch a good deal. You would also still have the option of using chat which would likely find you a better deal as well but at least you would have some idea what price to expect and some shot at finding things.

Another thing, I like the vendor search tool but that is all I want it to do. I do not want the WoW auction house ability that allows you to stand in a town and buy everything in a few seconds. If people have to actually go to the vendor in question to buy stuff then there will be a bit more exploration, more chance of interaction with other buyers or perhaps the vendor owners themselves and make it that much harder for the unscrupulous to take advantage. After all, if they need a whole rune library to go to each of the vendors they might decide its not worth the effort. Jade's example was after all a guy who didn't go any further than the city his own vendor was in.

Bottom line, I think a search tool, if done officially could be done smartly so as to minimize these problems, increase player interaction, give more people more reasons to reconnect to UO, and it would definitely be the final hurdle for myself into putting up a series of vendors at my house selling everything from hides, to Hearts of the Lion and even powerscrolls, etc. I think the benefits could be made to outweigh the detriments.

 

[elspeth]

I do get your point here actually... it could increase searching the land...
But I would add for the most part for me UO is not a game to be played quickly.. Like many other games Oblivion, Skyrim and many other games all are about hours and hours of time playing them. I am not saying you shouldn't/can't play for an hour a day and only do that.. Just for me its not how I like to play UO

Personally, I would LOVE, love LOOOOOOOVE to play many hours a day and spend lots of time on game, there is so much that I would do. Unfortunately it simply isn't an option. With young children at home and a full time job I am lucky to get an hour a day. One of the reasons I came back to UO is because you can do stuff in less than an hour and enjoy it. Sometimes I do go "shopping". Sometimes I do wander. Sometimes, after I've been shopping multiple days and know of something I really really want, I wish I could just do a vendor search and find the best priced item to buy instead of trying to figure out if the one place I can find it is overpriced or not. Sure I could ask in general chat but unfortunately for me, the server I play is not highly populated and the most populous times are the hardest for me to get online. I suppose I should change servers but I have 6 well developed characters and a lot of stuff and a great house and people I know that I don't want to leave and it would simply be hard to move after so many years.

So, anyways, please don't dismiss an idea just because it wouldn't fit your playstyle. There are plenty of others who play differently.

 

[Rupert Avery]

Personally, I would LOVE, love LOOOOOOOVE to play many hours a day and spend lots of time on game, there is so much that I would do. Unfortunately it simply isn't an option. With young children at home and a full time job I am lucky to get an hour a day. One of the reasons I came back to UO is because you can do stuff in less than an hour and enjoy it. Sometimes I do go "shopping". Sometimes I do wander. Sometimes, after I've been shopping multiple days and know of something I really really want, I wish I could just do a vendor search and find the best priced item to buy instead of trying to figure out if the one place I can find it is overpriced or not. Sure I could ask in general chat but unfortunately for me, the server I play is not highly populated and the most populous times are the hardest for me to get online. I suppose I should change servers but I have 6 well developed characters and a lot of stuff and a great house and people I know that I don't want to leave and it would simply be hard to move after so many years.

So, anyways, please don't dismiss an idea just because it wouldn't fit your playstyle. There are plenty of others who play differently.

I am not dismissing just giving my side of how feel.. I respect others have their own version of playing
Yes I think it could be useful and yes I wouldn't have to use it
but If they did do something like this it might take resources away from something else that could be better for us... and there is the issue of Resellers

 

[sherkborg]

Keep in mind, I personally dont want items to be bought through the system, I still think players should have to go get them. But telling you where to get it, that im all for.

 

[startle]

Keep in mind, I personally dont want items to be bought through the system, I still think players should have to go get them. But telling you where to get it, that im all for.

EXACTLY !

 

[startle]

And as for competition... as long as luna sells at stupid prices, my vendor sell out at reasonable but 20% marked up prices.....
Im point blank telling you that if you give me a searchable database for all of UO, I will become a billionaire....

I have news... most people use the search vendor...

Well, RWH, at least you are correct in this regard:

1: Luna/Zento do sell at STUPID PRICES, yours included.
2: Most people DO use the search vendor for Luna/Zento - which is EXACTLY WHY WE SHOULD HAVE A SOSARIA-WIDE VENDOR SEARCH.

But you're dilusional if you think you could "get up early" and buy it all for re-sale. If the dev's implemented a Sosaria-wide search system, then virtually everyone in the game would have vendors at their home selling stuff they've made or collected - AND MOST OF IT WOULD BE STUFF THAT YOU WOULD HAVE ZERO INTEREST IN. Your Luna/Zento vendors sell only high-end stuff. I'm talking about items for sale to the new or occasional player with much simpler needs than your current clients.

You, RWH, simply do NOT want any competition for your Luna vendors. Anyone with half a brain can see thru your feeble attempts to discredit what would be a great addition to this game.

Sorry, I'm sure you're a nice guy/gal - but your bias here is just so transparent.

 

[Theo_GL]

It is amazing how many communists play this game.

There is nothing wrong with buying something cheap and reselling. THAT IS THE ENTIRE BASIS OF THE US ECONOMY. Do you get this?

Do you think that the chinese 10 year making your Nike sneakers gets paid $100. He makes like $5. They spend $5 shipping it. Then Nike gets paid $50 when they sell it to ***** and ***** sells it to you for $100.

Think of yourself as the chinese 10 year old.

If you want to get paid retail - charge retail on your vendor. Clearly 5k is too little if others are able to sell at 75k.

If you keep up a stock at 5k and can supply continously at that point on the demand curve - then keep it up and the 75k ones wont sell.

Many people are fine with overpaying for convenience and that is what Luna vendors are -convenient. Much like when you go to your 7-11 and pay the same price for a 20 oz bottle of sprite as a 2 liter bottle is in the grocery store. Its convenience. You don't want to pay that much? Then shop around.

It just boggles my mind. What do you care if a random player buys your book for 5k or you sell it to a reseller for 5k? Either way you made your 5k. If he can resell for higher - maybe you should charge more? Ever think of that?

The economy is the economy.

What if BMW decided 'gee, we are going to take a loss on our cars so that every homeless person can drive a car - 3 series are now $10'. Do you think only homeless people would buy them? No. Some investor would buy all of them at $10 and resell for $30k because the value is $30k. If BMW could find a way to supply unlimited cars at $10 - then their VALUE would become $10 but they can't. So the market will dictate the price.

This is just basic basic econ 101. Supply and Demand and price equilibrium. If you don't understand this - please exit the thread. Please. You are just disrupting it with your ignorance.

 

[HD2300]

^^ Players who resell or do RMT dont like it because it cuts into their profits. So not good for the 5%, but good for everyone else because they can sell at market prices.

 

[startle]

There is nothing wrong with buying something cheap and reselling. THAT IS THE ENTIRE BASIS OF THE US ECONOMY. Do you get this?

Many people are fine with overpaying for convenience and that is what Luna vendors are -convenient. Much like when you go to your 7-11 and pay the same price for a 20 oz bottle of sprite as a 2 liter bottle is in the grocery store. Its convenience. You don't want to pay that much? Then shop around.

This is just basic basic econ 101. Supply and Demand and price equilibrium. If you don't understand this - please exit the thread. Please. You are just disrupting it with your ignorance.

Who are you talking to and what does your post have to do with the topic? Nobody's talking about supply and demand really....

 

[elspeth]

It is amazing how many communists play this game.

There is nothing wrong with buying something cheap and reselling. THAT IS THE ENTIRE BASIS OF THE US ECONOMY. Do you get this?

Do you think that the chinese 10 year making your Nike sneakers gets paid $100. He makes like $5. They spend $5 shipping it. Then Nike gets paid $50 when they sell it to ***** and ***** sells it to you for $100.

Think of yourself as the chinese 10 year old.

If you want to get paid retail - charge retail on your vendor. Clearly 5k is too little if others are able to sell at 75k.

If you keep up a stock at 5k and can supply continously at that point on the demand curve - then keep it up and the 75k ones wont sell.

Many people are fine with overpaying for convenience and that is what Luna vendors are -convenient. Much like when you go to your 7-11 and pay the same price for a 20 oz bottle of sprite as a 2 liter bottle is in the grocery store. Its convenience. You don't want to pay that much? Then shop around.

It just boggles my mind. What do you care if a random player buys your book for 5k or you sell it to a reseller for 5k? Either way you made your 5k. If he can resell for higher - maybe you should charge more? Ever think of that?

The economy is the economy.

What if BMW decided 'gee, we are going to take a loss on our cars so that every homeless person can drive a car - 3 series are now $10'. Do you think only homeless people would buy them? No. Some investor would buy all of them at $10 and resell for $30k because the value is $30k. If BMW could find a way to supply unlimited cars at $10 - then their VALUE would become $10 but they can't. So the market will dictate the price.

This is just basic basic econ 101. Supply and Demand and price equilibrium. If you don't understand this - please exit the thread. Please. You are just disrupting it with your ignorance.

I understand what you're saying but the UO economy can't really be compared to a regular economy. For one thing, say some store wishes to have low prices to bring in customers. They can offer a coupon with a limit per customer. They also reserve the right to refuse service. If their neighbor store came over and tried to buy up their stock they would probably refuse.

Also, it is relatively easy to get more gold in UO compared to the real world. So it is possible for someone to buy up everything from all other vendors so that he/she can then set the price for that item to whatever they want. By buying up ALL other stock, they are controlling the price. Even in a capitalist economy, abuses are regulated (for example, antitrust laws).

Anyways, this isn't just as simple as supply and demand. A game economy is possibly much more subject to abuse and has a lot fewer controls on it.

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

Glad I stumbled across this thread. I need a good read and multiple laughs while insomnia has it's clutches on me again. It REALLY makes me wonder how the game survived before the advent of the supposed "illegal" vendor search sites. You mean people actually had to devote TIME? Woah... what a concept. In my opinion all the vendor search sites should be shut down by EA/Mythic/BioWare/yadda/yadda. Do them the same way virtual sales were done on Ebay, they had that plug pulled rather fast back in the day. And before the trolls start about how all virtual sales were pulled, UO had theirs pulled prior to all virtual sales being pulled. If it's illegal, against TOS it should be stopped. Period.

As far as vendor search capabilities in game or that UO actually supports I vote for the Devs to stay productive as they have been with CONTENT. Despite what has been said above what attracts and keeps folks coming around is the content. Folks ain't gonna be suddenly dl'ing the client because they have a dang vendor search. *rolls eyes*

If however folks persist because of our instant society we have now {I want it and I want it now and don't want to exhaust any energy to find it} then simply do like they did with UOAssist. Take the largest vendor search site {the one EVERY one knows about} give them the OK, liscense it or whatever needs to be done thru legal channels and let THEM work on the how. Keep the Devs doing what they do best..... Developing Content, not showing us where to purchase pixels.

Just my .02.....

and speaking of folks .02.....

Rupert... don't you know folks like you should never be able to share their opinion on anything relating to economy, vendors or ANY other way to make a gold piece or more? YOUR opinion can't be trusted, it's evil, your involved in the conspiracy to keep others down, it borders on Capitalism. Strange how often times not only art imitates life... but games do too huh?

 

[Jade of Sonoma]

I understand what you're saying but the UO economy can't really be compared to a regular economy. For one thing, say some store wishes to have low prices to bring in customers. They can offer a coupon with a limit per customer. They also reserve the right to refuse service. If their neighbor store came over and tried to buy up their stock they would probably refuse.

Also, it is relatively easy to get more gold in UO compared to the real world. So it is possible for someone to buy up everything from all other vendors so that he/she can then set the price for that item to whatever they want. By buying up ALL other stock, they are controlling the price. Even in a capitalist economy, abuses are regulated (for example, antitrust laws).

Anyways, this isn't just as simple as supply and demand. A game economy is possibly much more subject to abuse and has a lot fewer controls on it.

 

[Jade of Sonoma]

It is amazing how many communists play this game.

There is nothing wrong with buying something cheap and reselling. THAT IS THE ENTIRE BASIS OF THE US ECONOMY. Do you get this?

Do you think that the chinese 10 year making your Nike sneakers gets paid $100. He makes like $5. They spend $5 shipping it. Then Nike gets paid $50 when they sell it to ***** and ***** sells it to you for $100.

Think of yourself as the chinese 10 year old.

If you want to get paid retail - charge retail on your vendor. Clearly 5k is too little if others are able to sell at 75k.

If you keep up a stock at 5k and can supply continously at that point on the demand curve - then keep it up and the 75k ones wont sell.

Many people are fine with overpaying for convenience and that is what Luna vendors are -convenient. Much like when you go to your 7-11 and pay the same price for a 20 oz bottle of sprite as a 2 liter bottle is in the grocery store. Its convenience. You don't want to pay that much? Then shop around.

It just boggles my mind. What do you care if a random player buys your book for 5k or you sell it to a reseller for 5k? Either way you made your 5k. If he can resell for higher - maybe you should charge more? Ever think of that?

The economy is the economy.

What if BMW decided 'gee, we are going to take a loss on our cars so that every homeless person can drive a car - 3 series are now $10'. Do you think only homeless people would buy them? No. Some investor would buy all of them at $10 and resell for $30k because the value is $30k. If BMW could find a way to supply unlimited cars at $10 - then their VALUE would become $10 but they can't. So the market will dictate the price.

This is just basic basic econ 101. Supply and Demand and price equilibrium. If you don't understand this - please exit the thread. Please. You are just disrupting it with your ignorance.

Yes Theo-GL .. Economy is the Economy. DEPT, BORROWING, CREDIT riddles the real world economy but let's not get into that - -

Calling those who don't agree with you COMMUNISTS?
To label such players as being ignorant and disruptive and to assume the role of judge, jury and bouncer is taking things a bit too far.


We who don't hold your views happen to live in the same world with you. It doesn't mean we don't know exactly what you are talking about. It does mean we don't have agree with the way the economy works, in game or in real life. It does mean we are looking for solutions to basic problems in UO's economy.

Having any In-Game Search Engine in UO, legal or not, seems to me, not the right way to go.

It was much better when there were no search engines. Players did manage to sell items on vendors in their homes throughout the land, and many resellers came to buy in order to restock their own vendors .. but it wasn't turned into a monopoly.

 

[startle]

Well, we certainly have gotten off the primary subject of the original post.... but that just seems to happen doesn't it.

The point of the original post was to promote discussion regarding the viability of having a Sosaria-wide vendor search system - where every vendor in all of the vast lands of our beloved Sosaria would have his /her inventory available to every player.

NuSair, who is not as "Slightly Crazed" as his description would suggest, has presented us with the concept of a "static database" updated every x hrs. Uriah Heep would settle for a "server up" solution (since that would require the least amount of "live" updates and most certainly doable from Origin's perspective). Theo GL reminds us that: "Facebook stores user information for 580 million people and updates happen nearly instantanously around the world." and speaks of "change data capture on each of the subserver DB's " and more. HD2300 reminds us that: "The databases were migrated to Oracle last year." SevinOooO reminds us of the obvious: "Housing server already polls vendors, and updates instantly. Why couldn't it poll a vendor's items as well? Export that off to be queried by an html page."

THIS is what this thread is supposed to be about - discussion regarding the best (or easiest) way for Origin to stop the decay of a wonderful game by allowing ALL PLAYERS to participate in the ECONOMY of UO. Not just the lucky few that ran to place houses in Luna/Zento when these lands came into being. And I say that as one of those who was quick enough and lucky enough to place a large in Luna back in the day. But that was a long time ago and another story.

The point is that we DESPERATELY need a a way for new and intermediate players to both FIND and AFFORD whatever goods they may need at whatever level of play and bank balance they currently find themselves in. Let's face it - the bank crowds at Vesper, Brit, Skara, Trinsic and even Jhelom have gone as has a big chunk of the user-base. These places are now ghost towns that bring us sad memories, and those of us who've watched the decline with some degree of remorse for the past decade - would love to see our UO of 2000 and before somehow be re-born. A big step in that direction would be for Origin to implement a Sosaria-wide vendor search system.... If they did, just sit back and watch as players once again begin to explore all of Sosaria, going to both small and large vendors to find what they need - and seeing all the great terrain they've been missing....

So this thread is about ideas and suggestions regarding a game-wide vendor search system.... I know that if we ALL pool our ideas here, that we could find a way to make it happen !

Just sayin....

 

[phantus]

UO needs a vendor search. It's embarrassing the simple mechanics this ancient MMO does not have. It is no secret that auction houses work and the players like them. They can no more be abused than the existing ways to find and purchase items can be abused. The market decides prices, not players. Players can test the market with the price they believe something is worth.

EA doesn't go after "those" sites because it would cost them money and they clearly have no intention on spending money on this game short of a small team of developers and some people assigned to work for it.

I believe Theo nailed the real reason we don't have this..well, partially. The way the objects are stored, i.e. flat files(etc.), and those sites themselves. The sites can be used as a crutch since they are out there and people use them so what is the big deal. They don't want to spend a bunch of development time/budget on something they don't have to.

Just to be clear, I'm for the stupid search feature. Just so long as they don't try to reinvent the wheel. An auction house is a simple thing and doesn't need to be made stupidly like the magincia vendors.

 

[NuSair]

Just because people used to/continue to spend hours searching vendors in the past doesn't mean that people should continue to do so, just because that is the way it's been done.

Even with the current search sites available, it hasn't stopped me from browsing vendors at times. It doesn't mean people will stop. It just gives people an OPTION if they don't want to spend X hours looking for an item.

It will also promote sales/vendors outside of the current scripted cities.

People who browse are going to continue to browse, having an OFFICIAL search site isn't going to change that any more than the illegal ones.

 

[Lightning 1]

Regarding the problem of rich people finding stuff to grab cheap and reselling higher the next day:

If placing items on a vendor would add one extra byte of data, it could have a date stamp. Perhaps it could be restricted from being placed on a vendor again for 60 days. That would force the hoarders to store and track all those items, before they could reprice them and make a big profit. It could make extra work for the fast reseller. The date stamp could be invisible to the players. It would only have an effect when someone tries to put these items on a different vendor. Making deeds out of them would force the latest time stamp onto the deed itself. Personal selling or auctions in fact, would be the only way to resell them within the date restriction. The exception would be, that the time stamp is ignored if it goes on a vendor, owned by the same person, who owned the previous vendor. That is to say, you can move it between your own vendors and ignore the date stamp.

The idea of an extra byte or 2 of data on each item, while it might sound like a lot, does not seem outrageous to me, and I've been a Data Base Administrator for a long time. It would require a change to the item database and every single copy of an item could even have a unique identifier, not just a time stamp, if you want to go that way. That extra step would help prevent duping by making tracking so much easier, even automatic, with a world wide data base search, identifying even the shard it came from, but I am perhaps overly attentive to security due to my work. This is just a game.

Actually I wish an account bound temporary database would keep the price and description of the vended items attached to them as I move them around, but just until I log out again. Then if I move a vendor or swap the contents, I won't have to hand write all the info down, move it to another vendor, then retype it. Why can't we just take the pack off a vendor, move the guy, then put it back on him, or another vendor, with all the pricing and descriptions intact? Making a special backpack called a Vendor Backpack could track whatever you placed in it by grid position, the price, and the details of whatever you put inside. Hmmm.

I can't tell you how much time I spent finding items that people asked me to look for. A vendor search would help for named items, supplies, and standard items, but unique armor, jewelry and weapons would be problematic.

 

[Tjalle]

For years I have always had 26 plant vendors in my shop on Arctic Is. namely Arctic Gardens. Also scribe/bard/tinker/carpenter items. Players had no problem finding my shop because it gained a good reputation. In 2006, A friend let me have his shop in Luna City so I moved my Scribe Vendors to Luna and amongst other scribe items, sold full 64 spell books for 5K each. I sold T-maps cheap plus all kinds of other items players need, but...

Recently I dismissed all my vendors in the Luna Shop except for the Librarian who sells runes to Rune Libraries. I will go back to selling from a home somewhere else in Sosaria eventually. Why? Because --

One night my stealther happened to be nearby when a player bought, not only all my empty and full city/dungeon/gate/shrine rune books, necromancer books etc.. but all of the full 64 Spell books @ 5K each from my vendors. These the player took immediately to another Luna shop where the player proceeded to put those spell books on their vendor @ 75K. each.

No other vendors in Luna City could be found selling serious scribe items and full spell books anywhere. I checked. I wasn't the only one being bought out. Those spell books did sell for that high 75K price and, as such, were probably recorded on the existing LUNA Vendor Search Engine for everyone to locate - - while my cheaper books and other items of my hard work were never recorded because nothing was left on my vendors at their low prices for everyone to locate.
And that's when I decided to stop doing all that work just so others could come along, snap it all up, and make a huge profit without doing any work.

Yes. Players should ask on General chat for help with such items. Yes. Players should ask other players where to buy things they need and who to contact.

Does anyone seriously want to let the buyers who buy low and sell high, know where all the reasonably priced items on vendors throughout the land can be quickly and easily located?

Jade´s experience is the main reason why I am against a Sosaria-wide vendor search.

And no, I don´t have any vendors in Luna or Zento.

However, if the devs could somehow implement a system that would disallow people from re-selling items that has been bought from a vendor then I would probably support the idea.

So once an item has been bought from a vendor then it gets an "invisible stamp" and can´t ever be put on another vendor again. Resources might be tricky though as they can be deeded/re-deeded but anything else gets stopped from being resold on a vendor.

 

[elspeth]

I really think an in-game vendor search would mean that people start having vendors at their homes again (like I said, it would certainly make me do it if I knew I wouldn't have to advertise all the time). I really think that the increase in vendors would help stem the reselling issues and I do believe this could help promote player interaction and wandering about so i think on many levels it is a worthwhile endeavor even over other possible uses of the resources and time to implement. Like I said, by no means should we be allowed to purchase stuff through this tool, that I feel is very important. You still have to find the vendor and go there and hope that no one else made it before you. Add a bit of excitement. But of course you are right, everyone is entitled to their opinion, sorry if it seemed that I was trying to squash yours. ;-P .

Anyways, maybe we should start a poll, those seem to have gotten popular lately. It would be great if we could get a comment from the devs on what is the chance of ever getting this, if they think it's possible? If the devs say absolutely never then there is no chance even talking about it anymore.

 

[Jade of Sonoma]

Thank you Tjalle (Post #79) for agreeing with me. That always makes a poster feel better.

Although I have my views, they are not always correct when it comes to the economics in today's society as one can see by the "level headed sensible" posts by elspeth and posts by others in here!

I really think an in-game vendor search would mean that people start having vendors at their homes again (like I said, it would certainly make me do it if I knew I wouldn't have to advertise all the time). I really think that the increase in vendors would help stem the reselling issues and I do believe this could help promote player interaction and wandering about so i think on many levels it is a worthwhile endeavor even over other possible uses of the resources and time to implement. Like I said, by no means should we be allowed to purchase stuff through this tool, that I feel is very important. You still have to find the vendor and go there and hope that no one else made it before you. Add a bit of excitement. But of course you are right, everyone is entitled to their opinion, sorry if it seemed that I was trying to squash yours. ;-P .

Anyways, maybe we should start a poll, those seem to have gotten popular lately. It would be great if we could get a comment from the devs on what is the chance of ever getting this, if they think it's possible? If the devs say absolutely never then there is no chance even talking about it anymore.

Good thinking, elspeth. Food for thought.

Today I am worried not only about the implications of an in-game vendor search - -

I am thinking: When IDOCs start up again, will players ask for an in-game-IDOC-search-engine combined with the in-game-vendor- search, um .. with a list of all items in the IDOC house?

oops.. oh my! I fear me funny bone is working 100% this morning!

*bowdown: please don't tell me that this has already happened !) - -

 

[Theo_GL]

Jade´s experience is the main reason why I am against a Sosaria-wide vendor search.

And no, I don´t have any vendors in Luna or Zento.

However, if the devs could somehow implement a system that would disallow people from re-selling items that has been bought from a vendor then I would probably support the idea.

So once an item has been bought from a vendor then it gets an "invisible stamp" and can´t ever be put on another vendor again. Resources might be tricky though as they can be deeded/re-deeded but anything else gets stopped from being resold on a vendor.

Here we go with more communism. Why in the heck do you need to keep people from reselling stuff? Once again - do you know how the BASICS of the free market system works?

Lets say spellbook is bought for 5k then resold for 75k. If it sells for 75k - then someone must VALUE it at 75k. If it can be made cheaper (and I don't mean materials I mean opportunity cost of doing so) then people should step up to SUPPLY more of them at lower prices to increase the supply.

Your problem is you are valuing your item too low - it is being bought and resold. If you can really continue to make and value your time to make them for 5k - then make them ALL DAY LONG at 5k and eventually the 75k ones WILL NOT SELL.

You cannot corner the market in this game on anything but rares because they do not spawn.

Everything else is obtained/crafted/gathered and if the prices go too high - people will enter the market to provide and it will drive the price down.

It is that simple. You don't need to 'limit' reselling. Thats just plain stupid and assinine. That is not how an economy works. If your stock is being resold - your prices are too low. If you think someone is price gouging others - continue to produce at your low price and the price will fall.

Everyday millions of morons walk into Best Buy and overpay for electronics. Should the government go out there and put laws into effect to keep Best Buy from charging too much for electronics by reselling at too high of prices?

I mean, cmon. The reason people are against shard wide vendor searchs all end up resorting to communistic/socialistic reasons. IE - The govt/EA should regulate the economy and not allow the free market systems to work basically thinking that EA would be better at managing distribution of goods. Hardly. By making a vendor wide search you push prices DOWN as everyone can find your endless supply of 5k spellbooks and no one would EVER buy the 75k ones.

Your situation is actually HELPED by the shard wide vendor system - not hurt. For the most efficient markets you need complete and transparent information. This is why the stock market is an efficient market. All goods are equal and there is complete transparancy to the highest price to buy and lowest price to sell which creates price equilibriums and provides a single price for IBM stock. Simple as that. Imagine trying to trade stocks without a stock market and having to go to 50 stores to find the best 'price' for a share of IBM stock. Doesn't sound fun. Neither does the current UO vendor system.

 

[phantus]

Everything else is obtained/crafted/gathered and if the prices go too high - people will enter the market to provide and it will drive the price down.

It is that simple. You don't need to 'limit' reselling. Thats just plain stupid and assinine. That is not how an economy works. If your stock is being resold - your prices are too low. If you think someone is price gouging others - continue to produce at your low price and the price will fall.

It's really that simple. People that disagree are either wrong or have an agenda.

 

[NuSair]

Yeah- I have to agree.

If I sell my recall scrolls at 50gp each and someone wants to buy them all up and sell them at 75gp- that is their choice. And there is nothing wrong with that.

I can either raise my price or just make so many that he stops buying them.

 

[Theo_GL]

Yeah- I have to agree.

If I sell my recall scrolls at 50gp each and someone wants to buy them all up and sell them at 75gp- that is their choice. And there is nothing wrong with that.

I can either raise my price or just make so many that he stops buying them.

Ah, a voice of reason.

And sorry - its probably not communism but more like socialism that so many others are in favor of - IE putting policies/laws/rules in place to allocate goods by a means other than the pure market economy.

Personally - I prefer a free market system with as close to a 'perfect market' as possible and a shardwide vendor search enables this in UO. In a 'perfect market' - prices are stabilized at a supply/demand equilibrium.

Things sell for what they are 'worth' and you will have a very hard time price gouging because of the perfect information.

 

[Jade of Sonoma]

s

Here we go with more communism - -

Your problem is you are valuing your item too low - it is being bought and resold - -


Everything else is obtained/crafted/gathered and if the prices go too high - people will enter the market to provide and it will drive the price down.

It is that simple. You don't need to 'limit' reselling. Thats just plain stupid and assinine - -

Should the government go out there and put laws into effect to keep Best Buy from charging too much for electronics by reselling at too high of prices?

The reason people are against shard wide vendor searchs all end up resorting to communistic/socialistic reasons. IE - The govt/EA should regulate the economy and not allow the free market systems to work - -

Your situation is actually HELPED by the shard wide vendor system - not hurt. For the most efficient markets you need complete and transparent information - - Simple as that. Imagine trying to trade stocks without a stock market and having to go to 50 stores to find the best 'price' for a share of IBM stock. Doesn't sound fun. Neither does the current UO vendor system.

Dear Theo-GL (Post #82)

There you go again with your communism/socialistic and " just plain stupid and assinine" verbal abuse.

So again, everyone who posts in here is entitled to their own opinion! That doesn't make them anywhere near being your communistic socialist etc...whatevers.

I quote you saying: " Your problem is you are valuing your item too low - it is being bought and resold. If you can really continue to make and value your time to make them for 5k - then make them ALL DAY LONG at 5k and eventually the 75k ones WILL NOT SELL." - - -

You are promoting the old theme:
"If you can't beat them .. join them."

Let's look at what is really going on from A different angle = *NEW VEIW POINT*

With the addition of Haven and NPC's selling in-game items, UO promoted and made it possible for Players to earn money, make their OWN Craft Characters, develop skills necessary to play the game both safely and quickly and with all that, UO nerfed the craft-player vendor system.

A new player can buy many needed goods from NPCs, can use easy safe escorting services to make UO gold and purchase skills like magery from NPCs. EG: Make a mage character, receive a free blessed spell book. NOW buy blank scrolls with escort money and while learning magery, practice your scribe skills, and also make characters who can do all other skills including warriors to hunt for resources and make needed items for their characters.

With players being able to make high end scrolls to fill their own spell books, and make special spell books, plus changing how so many other skills work, including how Plants are grown, used and sold, UO has made Scribe Vendors redundant (no longer needed) and most other in-game-player-craft-items redundant.

Eventually a new player makes enough UO Gold by hunting, escorting or using their new skills to later buy requirements like Power Scrolls in order to increase skill levels to Legendary or Ultimate. And hey, they can search for those especial items on in-game-vendor searches if they don't want to hunt Felucca, and if they can't find what they want in a hurry, there's always those outside-game web sites ready to take anyone's US$.
Just pick up a book laying around Luna City to see how that works.

I have no problem with the RESELLERS buying my low-price-items at a low price and selling high, because, as I have already stated in a previous post, my vendors no longer exist. That's the best solution.

Thus I remain ( BACK ON TOPIC ) with my opinion as stated else where in this thread.

A UO in-game Vendor search engine already exists and thrives nicely, albeit illegally, in UO. To make it legal and add extensive n-game Vendor searches .. uh uh

Now to get out of here and spend my time enjoying the game - hunting and doing things I like to do. Here's wishing you all a great day n' night Stay safe? (*if possible) .. or at least - have a blast and Enjoy! - -

 

[Tjalle]

Here we go with more communism. Why in the heck do you need to keep people from reselling stuff? Once again - do you know how the BASICS of the free market system works?

I never said I was against re-selling, only re-selling stuff that was bought on a vendor on another vendor.

If my awesome idea would be implemented there´s nothing that stops a player from buying stuff on vendors and then re-selling it ingame, be it spamming at a bank, selling in General chat, selling it on the shard´s trade forums, etc etc.

By all means, re-sell away all day.

And FYI, I play blues, not reds.

 

[startle]

...A UO in-game Vendor search engine already exists and thrives nicely, albeit illegally, in UO.

And what UO in-game vendor search exists in UO?

 

[Jade of Sonoma]

Startle, you know exactly what I mean despite how I worded it - as per your post #7 where you say: " Most of you are aware of a site or two (that we are not allowed to promote here or share a link to) that gives us the inventory of every vendor in Luna for us to find "stuff" with. I can guarantee you that if these "sites" didn't exist, many players would probably just wrap it up and quit... end of story."

Many players quit UO over the competition from such sites running in-game vendor searches in Luna City and selling In-game items for real US$.
Many Players advocated the destruction of Luna City to stop the practice and to prevent monopoly and price fixing. Another thread on that subjects exists.

If I seriously thought a legalized in-game vendor search engine would be benificial for UO, I wouldn't be arguing against having an in-game vendor search engine. Always someone eventually finds ways to exploit something good so - -

Let's do some good where the most good can be achieved:

Make Brain Power go to work again. Make every Player do their own thinking and learning about what is best for themselves, how to play the game and how to use their game time efficiently without relying on others to do all their thinking for them. Use your own brain power and exercise it well .. talking about which .. well, I've been there; said that before.

Now seriously I am out of here. This is getting rediculously interesting and great practice for honing writing skills. Some of the posters certainly have that going for them! *chuckles*

 

[Theo_GL]

Now I am seriously out of here. This is getting rediculous but interesting and great practice for writing skills. Some of the posters certainly have that going for them! *chuckles*

Your spelling of ridiculous is ridiculous.

An in game vendor search does NOT exist. It does not cover all vendors and is only updated every so often. If one DID exist - then vendors outside of Luna can actually sell stuff.

On Sonoma (yes I play that shard too) there is very little vendoring at all and its basically in Luna. Good luck getting anyone to wander past your shop outside of Luna. A FULL BLOWN SHARD WIDE search would allow you to put a vendor up on ice isle and people to find your good.

I just don't understand why you care who buys your stuff. If they use it, resell it or pee on it in the woods - what does it matter? You get your asking price and make money which is the purpose of a vendor - no?

Your reasoning for not wanting a system makes no sense to me.

 

[Jade of Sonoma]

I don't rely on a spell checker. I rely on memory and use a dictionary, ridiculous though that may seem to you. Ridiculous. Thanks. I learned something and may possibly forget it in the future but ..

Picking on spelling and picking on wording when the intent or concept is clearly not about grammar or spelling .. is nit picking. So back to the main topic?

Let me try: If an in-game vendor search does not exist then how can you say in the next breath, that it, - ( if it doesn't exist) - doesn't cover all vendors outside of Luna? It seems to me that it IS an in-game search and as such, as I said in my early post, it is limited to a Luna City search.

I am not posting in here to convince you or anyone else to agree with me. I am expressing my sincere opinion about not having any kind of world wide vendor search engine and have explained why. That's enough.

*waves* - -

 

[unified]

I just don't understand why you care who buys your stuff. If they use it, resell it or pee on it in the woods - what does it matter? You get your asking price and make money which is the purpose of a vendor - no?

Your reasoning for not wanting a system makes no sense to me.

Keep in mind that some are against such a system because they fear that cost comparison might pose a challenge. They may not be able to sell something for 10mil if other vendors are selling the same thing for 5mil.

 

[Meatbread]

Fears about one crazy rich guy buying up all the powerscrolls in the world (or whatever) and reselling them all for 10x their previous price are nonsense, mostly propagated by Luna vendors fearful of losing their monopoly. There is more than one rich guy in the world, and as soon as two of them start buying up crap, they have to compete to resell that crap to a limited number of customers.

Glad I stumbled across this thread. I need a good read and multiple laughs while insomnia has it's clutches on me again. It REALLY makes me wonder how the game survived before the advent of the supposed "illegal" vendor search sites.

You're looking at it backwards. Why DID this massive network of botting goldsellers crop up and come to utterly dominate the UO economy? Because nobody liked spending time running around looking at a million vendors.

In my opinion all the vendor search sites should be shut down by EA/Mythic/BioWare/yadda/yadda. Do them the same way virtual sales were done on Ebay, they had that plug pulled rather fast back in the day.

Ebay complied willingly when asked, because they frankly always hated virtual item sales anyway. There is no legal force EA can exert to make someone stop listing the contents of UO vendors on their website.

If however folks persist because of our instant society we have now

This right here is where I always tune people like you out. Nobody likes inconvenience and nobody ever did. Clicking a hundred vendors for three hours doesn't impart any moral virtue.

Keep the Devs doing what they do best..... Developing Content, not showing us where to purchase pixels.

Calling the thing you don't care about "pixels" is shoddy infantile rhetoric. It's a game, it's all pixels.

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

Nice post Meatbread.

:bowdown:

 

[Petra Fyde]

You get your asking price and make money which is the purpose of a vendor - no?

No, actually. My purpose, when I first had vendors on Europa, was to supply the things that people needed to play. I gradually built up a reputation as a reliable source of supplies and worked diligently, daily to maintain that.
Then a reseller found my vendors. Within 10 minutes of me stocking them, no matter what time of day I did it, my vendors were cleared and all their bags were emptied. My reputation for reliability was destroyed. I tried various methods to try to get around the problem, putting prices up, only putting half the stock on, varying my stocking times, to no avail. I don't have vendors on Europa anymore.

If someone in general chat asks for something and I have the item they're looking for I will sell it to them, otherwise my vendor owning days are done. Whether this request is or isn't met will not change that. I do not, will not, use the illicit search sites.

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

An in-game vendor search will allow anyone and everyone to have successful vendors wherever they choose to build a house.

It will allow everyone to check the going rate for an item and price accordingly. Price high, price low, blow-out, it's up to the vendor owner.

Resellers biggest advantage currently is Luna. It's where everyone knows to go to buy. If you choose not to use that site you don't have to. If you do use it then you can go directly to the vendor selling what you are looking for. A shard wide in-game vendor search would enable the same thing no matter where your vendor is and be totally, without question completely legal to use.

Players don't go wandering the facet anymore looking for vendor shops. For one there aren't hardly any and two it's more convenient to shop in Luna or Zento. It's ultra convenient to check the search site that uses the illegal 3rd party programs first and then go shop.

Most of the outlying vendor shops closed up after AoS and it's only gotten worse every year since. Luna shop owners mostly charge exorbitant rates to even rent a vendor in their shop. Why pay that when in your own house it's free? How many Luna house owners don't even have vendors of their own I wonder. They just rake in millions per week in vendor rental fees.

An in-game vendor search will make it so that owning a vendor if as fair and equitable as it could be no matter where your house is. All you have to do is check the search in order to price your wares or buy the item at it's lowest price. If you want to stock up your vendor and don't want resellers to buy all your stock then price accordingly. If you just want to undercut the guy selling his stock at high prices then price your stuff a little bit less. If you want to blow everything out as fast as you can then again, price accordingly.

You put in an in-game vendors search and level the playing field so that's it fair and equal then the big resellers won't have the huge advantage anymore. It's that simple.

 

[unified]

Players don't go wandering the facet anymore looking for vendor shops. For one there aren't hardly any and two it's more convenient to shop in Luna or Zento. It's ultra convenient to check the search site that uses the illegal 3rd party programs first and then go shop.

Using a search site can avoid the frustration of spending hours clicking on vendors to find every container, bag, box, etc. to be empty. I usually browse shop, so a search site isn't needed. If I am in Luna with a little time on my hands, I will go to a few shops and click away. But, it is extremely frustrating that there is no way to tell that the vendor is sold out or empty without browsing over every container. If I am looking for a specific item, say a good Dragon Slayer spellbook, I used to head on over to a vendor I knew sold slayer spellbooks to see if he has one. It is unfortunate, however, that reality dictates that it is far easier to use one of the search sites to find that specific item. Otherwise, I could spend days looking and the item may well be a random item that just happens to be on a vendor who normally specializes in rare cloth.

 

[Surgeries]

Everything else is obtained/crafted/gathered and if the prices go too high - people will enter the market to provide and it will drive the price down.

It is that simple. You don't need to 'limit' reselling. Thats just plain stupid and assinine. That is not how an economy works. If your stock is being resold - your prices are too low. If you think someone is price gouging others - continue to produce at your low price and the price will fall.

It's really that simple. People that disagree are either wrong or have an agenda.

Precisely.

I do have a Luna Vendor, and I bought mine with money I made from vendors located...in the wilderness. The vendors I created and maintained for years by doing things the old fashioned way...spreading runes and keeping very well stocked vendors that got a very good reputation. That earned me enough gold to buy my Luna Vendor House I currently have.

I believe we should have a search engine available. That is my vote. I do not think people should be able to purchase the item from the engine (like a central auction or anything)...simply be able to locate what vendor in Sosaria has what they want at a price point they will enjoy, and that would do the trick.

RWH is correct...there will be those who buy up all popular items and resell them, as much as they are humanly able. This is as is always has been, and as it truly should be. Some folks do nothing BUT this activity. They pay their $10 or $12 a month, and should be able to do this is it is what they enjoy.

They make TV shows about this stuff. Pickers is one. Those guys have to literally GO to a barn to see what is there. This is the equivalent of our current UO, with the exception of the site that uses scripted chars to gather their data. We have to GO to a vendor house and then sift through sometimes empty bags and Vendors to see if there is actually anything we actually Want.

In the meantime the Pickers could be driving by 20 barns full of treasures, because they simply do not know they are there.

By comparison, there are sites like Amazon that display ALL products available by ALL Resellers, giving the buyer the chance to pick the marketer and the price, as well as comparison shop while they are at it.

In my opinion, providing a search engine of vendors will likely help with the economy even out with regard to prices; gougers will simply likely not be able to gouge so easily, and resellers that are priced too low can quickly find that fact out, with a search engine.

I could be wrong, but I think I am fairly close...

 

[Theo_GL]

*Bro Hugs for Zeke and Surgeries*

Exactly. The closer to a 'perfect market' the better for everyone except the luna vendor trying to price gouge.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

Well just for point. I have been buying goblins blood and runic hammers for various upcoming events.

The profit is already starting to show.

For the sake of people saying they spend weeks looking for a stool and therefore need a search engine will totally be destroyed by the fact one player can gouge an entire game system.

aside from a specifi crafted piece or armour to fit your needs... everything else can be made, found, gathered, traded for with 24 hours.

I fail to see what people need so badly they can't get.

goblins for Reponds
hammers for Hammer changes