In Game Vendor Seach, Databases and problems and my solution

[allie_oops]

My word, I feel as though this is Harry Potter and you're the Minister of Magic. Voldemorte has returned my friend!! Evil is out there. Your justification of someone's script automatically purchasing high end weapons and gear when criteria is reached, is "well don't worry about it, they'll be more soon!"

Which just simply isn't the case. If you want to argue market dynamics, and allude to your past as a stock broker to at least help put some legs on the flimsy table you call your position, that's your choice.

My purpose is to show simple potential flaws that would allow this system to be ruined the minute it began.

You can say "NO NO IT'LL BE FINE!!" , and ignore the actuality that is the UO market, not the assumptions you present to be the market. 10 Event Items drop... script trigger to purchase all of them put on vendors.. "BUT HE COULD HAVE DONE IT ANYWAY!!", yes, but no one has a chance to buy them since as SOON as they hit a vendor they're going to be purchased via the Bot.


You;re just lieing to yourself and avoiding the obvious, simple, and extremely ground floor exploiting possible through any system like this.

HD2300, take a look at my first post, 186, and then my next one, and let me know your thoughts on some of those flaws in current UO that are holding up our growth.


"And currently, Only Luna and Zento and very few others have the benefits given by a global search. Unless someone wants to knowingly give their vendor info to a site that uses known cheating methods to provide the Global Search, they are at a disadvantage, and it is simply not fair. It would be far easier to stop your Vendor Bots in the UO game than to shut down the search site that currently exists.

That, too...is Simple Logic."

And really, this isn't the middle ages, stop acting like these sites are performing evil witch craft by catalouging vendors, they provide a service, for free. I understand that they break the ToS to an extent maybe, but they aren't this villainous entity you make them out to be, at least not the US based ones. And the US based Search sites actually catalog outside of luna vendors... That russian guy spams my gen chat too much for my taste. Point being! As long as they make UO better for me, I'm happy with them. Same with UOCarto before it got UO-approved..


I feel you should have done more research into the available Search systems before making some of these statements!

Have a great night everyone!
Allie

 

[allie_oops]

But that already happens with the current searches that are available. If it's not the people running the bots, there are people who use the search site to consistently search the possible vendors for items that are in demand to buy/sell.

This is a dynamic in every online game I have played that has a player controlled market place. To use it as an argument against having a vendor search system is a fallacy. Legal or illegal, because of the existence of a search site, it happens.

There is also already price fixing. To the guys that sit in gen chat all day and buy/sell to the people to run around to vendors and buy up their wares to stock on their vendors.

And really, looking at what is currently possible with Luna, who is to say that someone isn't running bots all over looking for those vendors already?

*on a side note= it's really nice to see a thread I started go like it has, I love the discussion here.

To incorporate this in-game allows so many more exploit opportunities than watching a 3rd party website. I'm assuming that the programmers behind our UO systems understand this, and the risk it puts on an already fragile eco system in. As funny as it may seem that data is far harder to manipulate OFF of UO then it is on UO.

This is just the reality of this situation. To consider price fixing to the extent you see it now, and what is actually possible is like water and oil. Commodities, to rares, to event items, to unique armor and weapon rolls' from shame and wrong... the potential for serious issue is so large. It's just a bad place to put time and effort, through and through.


xoxo
Allie

 

[Surgeries]

Good Lord...flip it any way you'd like.

It isn't "Evil"...it's Unfair.

Voldemort was "Evil".

Having some people get their wares in front of others via a web search while others don't have the advantage given by the search is "Unfair".

Get it? Unfair. Not fair. Not Equitable.

But definitely not "Evil".

Don't put words in my mouth. And when you defend what the sites do...it does not further your case to do so. They are not "Evil"...they are Unfair...please refer back to my second line in this post if you become confused at any time. Try to defuse the fact that you give them runes to your vendor house and others to get The Luna Edge...but you still are engaging in activities that are considered cheating. Cheating gives an Unfair Advantage, and that is what we are talking about...Unfair Advantage.

You show "Potential" flaws and act as if they are the gospel truth, and I demonstrate "Potential" benefits...and you act like I need to wipe the drool off my chin. Observably you need to try to perform a little character assassination to "strengthen" your argument.

You made my point by using Event Items (Extremely rare items in excessively small quantities) as your "Item" to show that the Bots would beat the system. In those cases, I agreed already, that would likely be the case. I am not lying to myself at all.

What about Arrows? How about Leather? How about Splintering Weapons? How about Runic Armor? How about Magic Armor? How about Imbuing Ingredients? How about Bods? How about virtually EVERY other item used Daily by players, that currently can't be seen by anyone not selling in Luna or Zento? How about you give us allyour blow by blow breakdown of how all the little guys will go under with a global search, if you are able, because they won't be able to compete selling day to day items? You know...99% of what is bought and sold...that stuff. Not event items...as previously stated...limited items can be controlled. Endless supply items cannot.

How about those, Mr. Market Guy? Give us your Dooms Day scenario on how badly the average vendor in the wilderness will get screwed over by having all of those items listed globally where everyone who is currently paying through the nose can see them? Rebut my previous examples of the endless supply items. Don't rebut using limited number items...it doesn't aid your cause at all.

How about the actual high volume items that I am referring to...the kind of stuff I made a whole lot of gold on with my vendors? The kind of stuff I would have WISHED you had bought up every time I put it out...

This is all just so much typing...but should they put in a global search, then we would see the actual results and not your predictions about how a global search would completely destroy the UO Economy, and mine that it would greatly benefit the majority of the player base.

 

[Meatbread]

Gee guys, isn't it funny how someone who is intimately familiar with search site policies and who gathers runes for a search site just happened to register and post in this thread to tell us how the economy would TOTALLY BE DESTROYED FOR REAL if control of it were taken away from search sites?

Misconception: Luna Vendors are the only vendors on Search Sites! unfair!
The US-based "Search" sites are actually running a promotion to get all of the outside of Luna vendors added in their search engine. Heck I submitted 7 books worth of runes

Many, many, many vendors are not listed on the search sites and control of which vendors ARE listed ultimately rests with... who? We don't even know. Whatever scripter, duper, Russian hacker, or goldseller happens to own a given site, I guess.

Misconception: A global vendor search in-game can't be abused any more than the systems we have now!
This is by far the most dangerous misconception floating around. An in-game vendor search would allow people to write programs and routines to completely monopolize and ruin ANY specific product market they chose to.

This is literally insulting to the intelligence. Just one paragraph ago you glowingly described how you're attempting to CREATE a more global vendor search by submitting books full of runes DIRECTLY to monopolizing scripting goldsellers! And they will... what? Refuse to clean out any good deals they find, out of the goodness of their heart, before listing the shop for the rest of us peons to find?

"But everyone has ornaments, noob! Who cares!" Ok , well what about that Splintering 30% Kryss that just dropped from shame/wrong? Oh, you never got to see it because Joe had a bot running a routine to buy all splintering 25%+ Kryss'..

You mean just like what happens to every shop you submit to the search site that employs you? Gee, we'd be SO much better off if you had found that shop and submitted it so that they could clean it out before listing it.

Now that clearly seems like a problem, right? That's ONE instance for one static non-disposable item, with ONE botter. Imagine a situation where at least 30-50 high end players had bots setup to do this?

Then we would have 30-50 players competing to sell Ornaments (or whatever) to the limited number of people who actually want one, instead of 3-5 search sites that can vacuum up anything they want before listing it. Even this doomsday scenario of yours is actually an improvement over the current status quo.

I'm fairly certain that our Dev Team understands this and sees what happened to WoW's Auction House

You mean how it was a huge success, became a standard feature in every MMO ever since, and how Blizzard even makes money selling a cellphone app to access it?

Leave this one alone, your time is best spent in 1,000 other directions this is a horrible horrible idea, as I hope I clearly illustrated just a sampling of potential downfalls to it.

"Please don't put my search site out of business! Please!"

Further Conclusion: If you want to, Mark runes to your vendors and submit them to the US-based search sites.

So that they can do all of that "horrible" stuff you listed above, without even having to compete with anyone else, right? Next time you post here to try and protect your illicit livelihood, at least try to choose between saying "COME HELP SEARCH SITES COVER ALL SHOPS!" and saying "A VENDOR SEARCH COVERING ALL SHOPS WOULD RUIN EVERYTHING!" You just come off as a shill when you try to say both at once.

 

[Jade of Sonoma]

- - - - - - - -

 

[HD2300]

Gee guys, isn't it funny how someone who is intimately familiar with search site policies and who gathers runes for a search site just happened to register and post in this thread to tell us how the economy would TOTALLY BE DESTROYED FOR REAL if control of it were taken away from search sites?

...You mean how it was a huge success, became a standard feature in every MMO ever since, and how Blizzard even makes money selling a cellphone app to access it?

..."Please don't put my search site out of business! Please!"

LMAO. This thread is shaping up to be one of the best ever.

 

[elspeth]

I must say I'm quite addicted to this thread and I'm spending way too much time reading everyone's arguments!

To allie - same thing basically as others have said, the WoW AH does allow for resellers its true but I have also used it to find when stuff is overpriced and when it is underpriced and I try to NOT buy when everything is clearly overpriced (e.g. when I want something, I do a search and then check a few hours or a few days later to compare and I wait till I see a pretty reasonable price or I have no choice). and it is wildly successful and is a system used in just about every other MMO out there and as such would be something expected by new players and therefore would help us get and perhaps keep said new players (just as startle said). And arguing that the AH ruined WoW's economy is I think quite farfetched. UO economy has had plenty of devaluation of gold and ruination without the benefit of said tool. I think as others have stated that the economy of a game like WoW or UO is just destined to become "ruined" as gold becomes devalued as it is created pretty much out of nothing endlessly. And if in fact, the devs could "clearly see" that such a tool is ruinous to the economy why indeed did Blizzard create a smartphone app that allows you to search and use the Auction House from outside of game?

Rupert - you list what was it? 7 vendor houses that have been able to compete with Luna. So that's Luna 30, outside Luna 7? Is that really a good statistic to use? So I guess it goes with you're argument that goes something like "a TRUE trader that spends all of their ingame time advertising and stocking vendors and perhaps also rents vendors out to others and is able to actually with all this work keep up a vendor house outside of LUNA is still a possibility". But are you honestly going to tell me that I can't sell the few items I craft or the few good drops I get unless I am rich and own a Luna house, or spend all my time being a TRUE trader, or manage to get enough stuff to be able to afford the rental of a Luna vendor or of course my other option is to set up a vendor out in the wilderness where I am forced to sell at about 1/2 the cost of Luna vendors in order to sell anything in a reasonable amount of time which then makes me a perfect target for resellers? Surgeries has already told us that the true traders who did very well with vendor houses and were highly successful probably already made enough money to be the ones owning Luna houses now (either that or they are probably scripters). Why can't I be part of a middle class with low key vendors that can still sell for around market price but don't suck up all my time?

Jade and Petra have already confirmed that resellers are a problem. Startle has brought up the issue of new players. Yes, an ingame search can be abused but the chances are good that the website search has already been abused as noted by K Kinslayer and as others have noted they are not actually breaking any laws so chances are that EA/Origin/Mythic or whatever can't shut them down even if they cared to bring down some pressure.

An ingame search would help level the playing field, it would help give rise to a middle class that does some hunting and some selling and it would definitely be a help to new players who could find the items they need in a manner consistent with what they are used to. Honestly, these new players might not even know about the web search and have to spend hours looking around in Luna and even there still find lots of empty backpacks and not so much on the basic necessities.

 

[Meatbread]

Now that this thread has gotten an actual "We're watching" sort of post from a developer, we can probably expect more Luna landowners and search site employees turning up to tell us how the economy would be totally destroyed if they weren't allowed to control it.

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

Now that this thread has gotten an actual "We're watching" sort of post from a developer

Ummmm, where is this post?

*edit*

Never mind.. found it:

Interesting read so far.

Hopefully they have stand with the folks that are saying do away with ALL vendor searching. Of course that's my opinion.

 

[NuSair]

To incorporate this in-game allows so many more exploit opportunities than watching a 3rd party website.

I suggest you go back and read my first post that started this topic.

 

[startle]

I must say I'm quite addicted to this thread and I'm spending way too much time reading everyone's arguments!

....An ingame search would help level the playing field, it would help give rise to a middle class that does some hunting and some selling and it would definitely be a help to new players who could find the items they need in a manner consistent with what they are used to...

Exactly. The "middle class" that elspeth speaks of is pretty much the same as the huge number of players that UO had a decade ago and that have quit ever since the Luna/Zento concentration of resources and their exclusive vendor search sites made it impossible to compete on a level playing field. A Sosaria-wide vendor search system would finally allow the 99% to have a say in the economy, and would be the exact thing we need to both keep and increase our player-base. The 1% would survive, but they wouldn't "own" it all like they do now. Look back thru this thread and you'll easily be able to tell who here represents the 1% and who speaks for the rest of us.

Now that this thread has gotten an actual "We're watching" sort of post from a developer, we can probably expect more Luna landowners and search site employees turning up to tell us how the economy would be totally destroyed if they weren't allowed to control it.

Yea, and it's very easy to see thru their lame arguments that reveal where their bias comes from....

Just sayin.....

 

[Rupert Avery]

Yes luna and Zento has an Advantage they are the high streets of UO, But it is not impossible to compete! with a little extra work (because you dont want to or cant afford to pay for the high street spots) and making sure your vendors are stocked with what ever you sell anyone can make it!

 

[HD2300]

Exactly. The "middle class" that elspeth speaks of is pretty much the same as the huge number of players that UO had a decade ago and that have quit ever since the Luna/Zento concentration of resources and their exclusive vendor search sites made it impossible to compete on a level playing field. A Sosaria-wide vendor search system would finally allow the 99% to have a say in the economy, and would be the exact thing we need to both keep and increase our player-base. The 1% would survive, but they wouldn't "own" it all like they do now. Look back thru this thread and you'll easily be able to tell who here represents the 1% and who speaks for the rest of us.




Yea, and it's very easy to see thru their lame arguments that reveal where their bias comes from....

Just sayin.....

Exactly if you like IDOCs keep the status quo and keep catering to the 1%, otherwise add proven useful features that are in almost every other game that will benefit the 99%.

 

[startle]

Yes luna and Zento has an Advantage they are the high streets of UO, But it is not impossible to compete! with a little extra work.....anyone can make it!

Oh Rupert... I think that most of us reading this thread see your comment here as nothing less than ludicrous - and just in case you have forgotten the exact meaning of that word, it means "causing laughter because of absurdity; provoking or deserving derision; ridiculous; laughable:"

Let's see... How to compete? Oh yes, the old "rune dropping" thing... Ok, here I go:

***Recalls to West Britain bank, looks around... hmm no one here, no vendor runes to be seen anywhere, hm.***

***Recalls to East Britain bank, looks around... hmm no one here, no vendor runes to be seen anywhere, hm.***

***Recalls to Delucia bank, looks around... hmmm no one here, no vendor runes to be seen anywhere, hmmm.***

***Recalls to New Haven bank, looks around... hmm no one here, no vendor runes to be seen anywhere, hmm.***

***Recalls to Jhelom bank, looks around... hmmm no one here, no vendor runes to be seen anywhere, hmmm.***

***Recalls to Minoc bank, looks around... hmmm no one here, no vendor runes to be seen anywhere, hmmm.***

***Recalls to Moonglow bank, looks around... hmm no one here, no vendor runes to be seen anywhere, hmm.***

***Recalls to Nujel'm bank, looks around... hmmm no one here, no vendor runes to be seen anywhere, hmmm.***

***Recalls to Skara Brae bank, looks around... hmm no one here, no vendor runes to be seen anywhere, hmm.***

***Recalls to Trinsic bank, looks around... hmmm no one here, no vendor runes to be seen anywhere, hmmm.***

***Recalls to Vesper bank, looks around... hmmm no one here, no vendor runes to be seen anywhere, hmmm.***

***Recalls to Royal City bank, looks around... hmm no one here, no vendor runes to be seen anywhere, hmm.***
​

Fighting to keep this game alive by being the voice of the 1% here, is fighting to keep this game on the fast-track to becoming an IDOC itself.

UO had better find ways to cater to the 99% soon.

***Edit: And this is on one of the "more populated" shards, Pacific.

Just sayin.........

 

[Meatbread]

Hopefully they have stand with the folks that are saying do away with ALL vendor searching. Of course that's my opinion.

That is never, ever, ever going to happen. Please try dealing in REALITY. There is absolutely no reason to take your opinion the least bit seriously when all you keep saying is the equivalent of "I wish faeries would sprinkle pixie dust on the economy and fix it that way!"

Yes luna and Zento has an Advantage they are the high streets of UO, But it is not impossible to compete! with a little extra work (because you dont want to or cant afford to pay for the high street spots) and making sure your vendors are stocked with what ever you sell anyone can make it!

Then there's this guy, with his third-party auction website listed right in his sig. Gee this guy seems like a neutral observer all right. Hurr. I mean don't get me wrong, there are no IRL money listings or advertisements on his site that I saw (or any auctions lol) so good for him, but it's kinda hard to view his opinion as unbiased.

Me, I'm a one-account player who likes killing monsters and who just wants to be able to purchase UO goods without A) giving traffic to the scripter/goldseller websites or B) clicking hundreds of vendors for hours on end.

But make no mistake, I'll do option A before I do option B. So will most people. That's why option A dominates the current economy.

 

[Jade of Sonoma]

- -etc - - That is never, ever, ever going to happen. Please try dealing in REALITY. - -etc

Me, I'm a one-account player who likes killing monsters and who just wants to be able to purchase UO goods without A) giving traffic to the scripter/goldseller websites or B) clicking hundreds of vendors for hours on end.

But make no mistake, I'll do option A before I do option B. So will most people. That's why option A dominates the current economy.

Good Points always Meatbread.

If "that's why option A dominates the current economy" I don't know what to say because it's directly opposite to the way I think. I like to PLAY the GAME and achieve, and seldom need to go hunting for what I need on vendors.

I am a multi-account player with patience who eventually always gets what is needed through hard work, building characters, hunting, collecting resources, and that which I cannot find or make for myself, (never by subscribing to illegal websites or supporting their high priced in-game Vendors located anywhere on the shard) I've always managed to get what I need without using an in-game-search-engine. Usually I manage quite well by doing without until I obtain what I need. So yes - others may find this method terrifically slow, but I call it playing the game.

Still if you want to attract more players to the game I can understand the need for having something added to UO that will attract players, both new and old players. But does that necessarily mean creating an in-game-vendor-system to do that job? Maybe you are right. Seems all the new additions to content by the programmers and developers so far, and the hard work put in by EM's hasn't helped a great deal but that could be because of the account migration nightmares which are still affecting the game.

Yes - you have a good point of view as usual. Anything that would help increase the number of players in UO would be good .. and something which my son says would help and which he tells me about - - the employment of an in-game "Auction System" such as you would find in another game he mentioned that I don't play, but one that I believe was also mentioned in one of the posts in here.

- - can't think what game that was - - - - *thinking*

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

Passionate debate at times, yet still civil and in a manner

The people in this thread should be commended

Hopefully I did not just jinx it.....

Looks like I jinxed it.....

Oh Rupert... I think that most of us reading this thread see your comment here as nothing less than ludicrous - and just in case you have forgotten the exact meaning of that word, it means "causing laughter because of absurdity; provoking or deserving derision; ridiculous; laughable:"

Let's see... How to compete? Oh yes, the old "rune dropping" thing... Ok, here I go:

Of course you would not see any of those right now, everyone is in the woods either watching or finding decaying properties. Not to mention merchants have gotten lazy and stepped away from that due to Illegal search programs being allowed to continue.

Fighting to keep this game alive by being the voice of the 1% here, is fighting to keep this game on the fast-track to becoming an IDOC itself.

UO had better find ways to cater to the 99% soon.

Here we go with this spiel. I agree with Petra, the political junk should be left out of the game. However I hold the opinion and wish the Occutard Movement {in game and out} would go take a 12 step walk off of a 8 step pier. Nothing but division. And OUR GAME does not need any more of that. And just like you.... I am...

Just sayin'

 

[Jade of Sonoma]

So to repeat myself again too ... I don't think any search engine is going to be of any great value in attracting players to UO because of the major problem which has been going on far too long:

The Nightmare caused by the migration of Accounts

I think the DUST has to settle first, and game/account support has to improve contact methods.

*It has been suggested something intentional is going on to get UO shut down* *shutters at the thought*

 

[startle]

Passionate debate at times, yet still civil and in a manner... Looks like I jinxed it.....

Kylie... are you suggesting that my post regarding Rupert's comment of "anyone can compete" in the current state of the UO economy was ludicrous is not "civil"? Well, Kylie, if I had personally attacked Rupert in some way then you might be correct. I did not attack Rupert or his Auction House, I simply stated the obvious - and I think that the majority of the people who read this thread would agree - that dropping runes at banks (as a way to compete with the Luna/Zento vendor system) IS LUDICROUS. And the fact that the major IDOC "event" is on doesn't change that in the least. I'll be happy to do the experiment all over again next weekend or the next and I guarantee you I'll have the same results. Good grief man....

Fighting to keep this game alive by being the voice of the 1% here, is fighting to keep this game on the fast-track to becoming an IDOC itself.

UO had better find ways to cater to the 99% soon.

Here we go with this spiel. I agree with Petra, the political junk should be left out of the game. However I hold the opinion and wish the Occutard Movement {in game and out} would go take a 12 step walk off of a 8 step pier....

Political junk? Between the two of us, you're the only one suggesting a comparison between UO's 99% and the world's 99% Occupy movements. And you certainly show where you stand in both of these 99% (unrelated) concepts with your description of the world's 99% "Occupy" movements as "Occutard".

Your attempt to derail this discussion is also ludicrous...

Just sayin again....



Oh, and one last thing: In the end it will be the 1% that take that walk off your little pier.... Count on it.

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

Kylie... are you suggesting that my post regarding Rupert's comment of "anyone can compete" in the current state of the UO economy was ludicrous is not "civil"?

Yes. I am not just suggesting it is not civl, I was saying it. When we begin to use those type of words to describe another person, their thoughts or beliefs it shuts down the honest, open discussion and free exchange of ideas. There are those that post, and those that watch and consider posting who both shut down on the discussion once that type of stuff starts, as they do not want to run the risk of being ridiculed. That by it's self is sad as they may have GREAT points to add to the conversations.

Me however, I could care less, I am on record as stating what I thought of a forum where folks could take the gloves off. If you doubt that by all means feel free to hit me up on icq and we can FREELY talk about areas we disagree on. The number is in my profile. But be forewarned, nobody limits me, my ideas, my responses or my attitude when I am outside the bounds of UO and Stratics. Most people who have or do find out I am not always the "nice" guy you see here and in game.

Political junk? Between the two of us, you're the only one suggesting a comparison between UO's 99% and the world's 99% Occupy movements. And you certainly show where you stand in both of these 99% (unrelated) concepts with your description of the world's 99% "Occupy" movements as "Occutard".

Your attempt to derail this discussion is also ludicrous...

Just sayin again....



Oh, and one last thing: In the end it will be the 1% that take that walk off your little pier.... Count on it.

You know what your intent was with the initial post. Your last sentence here further illustrates that. It's sad that over a 2 page discussion would run the risk to be finished because some folks seem to lack the decorum needed to keep it open. I wold HATE to see everyone's opinions, and discussion stopped due to that. Which is why I always try to walk a line to where what I say does not effect the rest of the folks.

I will not debate who hijacked the thread. Anyone that chooses can go back and read what is written and decide for themselves.

 

[startle]

Kylie... are you suggesting that my post regarding Rupert's comment of "anyone can compete" in the current state of the UO economy was ludicrous is not "civil"?

Yes. I am not just suggestion it is not civl, I was saying it....

Well, if saying that the statement that - "anyone can compete" with the current Luna/Zento vendor system is laughable - qualifies as "not civl" (or is that civil) is in itself laughable.

Political junk? Between the two of us, you're the only one suggesting a comparison between UO's 99% and the world's 99% Occupy movements. And you certainly show where you stand in both of these 99% (unrelated) concepts with your description of the world's 99% "Occupy" movements as "Occutard".

Your attempt to derail this discussion is also ludicrous...

Just sayin again....



Oh, and one last thing: In the end it will be the 1% that take that walk off your little pier.... Count on it.

You know what your intent was with the initial post.

Oh, and now you know my intent? How about you quote my "initial" post and we can discuss my intent, if it's not clear enough to the rest of the readers here...

Really sayin now....

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

How about you quote my "initial" post and we can discuss my intent, if it's not clear enough to the rest of the readers here...

Really sayin now....

If you doubt that by all means feel free to hit me up on icq and we can FREELY talk about areas we disagree on. The number is in my profile. But be forewarned, nobody limits me, my ideas, my responses or my attitude when I am outside the bounds of UO and Stratics. Most people who have or do find out I am not always the "nice" guy you see here and in game.

Until then....



There are certain topics and personality types I make the decision not to get into discussions with when I have to be reserved. This topic, and the personality type you have displayed here so far both qualify for that. Sorry, but I do not allow myself to get dragged into the gutter in places where doing so would allow me to open myself up to reprisal/action by staff etc.

 

[startle]

...Sorry, but I do not allow myself to get dragged into the gutter in places where doing so would allow me to open myself up to reprisal/action by staff etc.

Ok, apology accepted...

 

[elspeth]

So to repeat myself again too ... I don't think any search engine is going to be of any great value in attracting players to UO because of the major problem which has been going on far too long:

The Nightmare caused by the migration of Accounts

I think the DUST has to settle first, and game/account support has to improve contact methods.

*It has been suggested something intentional is going on to get UO shut down* *shutters at the thought*

Well, if we want to start putting priorities on things then I agree that there are higher priorities. The account system definitely needs to be robust though I have a feeling somebody with an entirely new account won't really have as many troubles as all the returners. But, quests and the like that help new players get acquainted should certainly be improved, documentation updated, but then I think tools like the vendor search would be the next priority.

And I don't expect it to attract people to the game (that's going to require graphics and advertising) but I do expect it to help people stay once they've started.

 

[Rupert Avery]

Yes luna and Zento has an Advantage they are the high streets of UO, But it is not impossible to compete! with a little extra work.....anyone can make it!

Oh Rupert... I think that most of us reading this thread see your comment here as nothing less than ludicrous - and just in case you have forgotten the exact meaning of that word, it means "causing laughter because of absurdity; provoking or deserving derision; ridiculous; laughable:"

Let's see... How to compete? Oh yes, the old "rune dropping" thing... Ok, here I go:

***Recalls to West Britain bank, looks around... hmm no one here, no vendor runes to be seen anywhere, hm.***

***Recalls to East Britain bank, looks around... hmm no one here, no vendor runes to be seen anywhere, hm.***

***Recalls to Delucia bank, looks around... hmmm no one here, no vendor runes to be seen anywhere, hmmm.***

***Recalls to New Haven bank, looks around... hmm no one here, no vendor runes to be seen anywhere, hmm.***

***Recalls to Jhelom bank, looks around... hmmm no one here, no vendor runes to be seen anywhere, hmmm.***

***Recalls to Minoc bank, looks around... hmmm no one here, no vendor runes to be seen anywhere, hmmm.***

***Recalls to Moonglow bank, looks around... hmm no one here, no vendor runes to be seen anywhere, hmm.***

***Recalls to Nujel'm bank, looks around... hmmm no one here, no vendor runes to be seen anywhere, hmmm.***

***Recalls to Skara Brae bank, looks around... hmm no one here, no vendor runes to be seen anywhere, hmm.***

***Recalls to Trinsic bank, looks around... hmmm no one here, no vendor runes to be seen anywhere, hmmm.***

***Recalls to Vesper bank, looks around... hmmm no one here, no vendor runes to be seen anywhere, hmmm.***

***Recalls to Royal City bank, looks around... hmm no one here, no vendor runes to be seen anywhere, hmm.***
​

Fighting to keep this game alive by being the voice of the 1% here, is fighting to keep this game on the fast-track to becoming an IDOC itself.

UO had better find ways to cater to the 99% soon.

***Edit: And this is on one of the "more populated" shards, Pacific.

Just sayin.........

Let me point out that I have never said your opinion was wrong or "ludicrous" I know for a FACT that putting in the extra advertising can and will make a shop work, I have done it. Most Luna vendors are too high priced and or not stocked on most shards all a shop needs is to be is fully stocked and at peak times a gate to their shop. Its really that simple....

No one is wrong in this debate this is a thread of throwing idea's and suggestions as well as opinions.

where I stand on a global vendor search system is that although I don't think we need one it wont make that much of a difference to get one or not. My earlier posts were merely pointing out the other side of the coin.

Hopefully they have stand with the folks that are saying do away with ALL vendor searching. Of course that's my opinion.

That is never, ever, ever going to happen. Please try dealing in REALITY. There is absolutely no reason to take your opinion the least bit seriously when all you keep saying is the equivalent of "I wish faeries would sprinkle pixie dust on the economy and fix it that way!"

Yes luna and Zento has an Advantage they are the high streets of UO, But it is not impossible to compete! with a little extra work (because you dont want to or cant afford to pay for the high street spots) and making sure your vendors are stocked with what ever you sell anyone can make it!

Then there's this guy, with his third-party auction website listed right in his sig. Gee this guy seems like a neutral observer all right. Hurr. I mean don't get me wrong, there are no IRL money listings or advertisements on his site that I saw (or any auctions lol) so good for him, but it's kinda hard to view his opinion as unbiased.

Me, I'm a one-account player who likes killing monsters and who just wants to be able to purchase UO goods without A) giving traffic to the scripter/goldseller websites or B) clicking hundreds of vendors for hours on end.

But make no mistake, I'll do option A before I do option B. So will most people. That's why option A dominates the current economy.

Why would my view be biased? The Ultima Auctions is set up for all players to use... I make no money from it there are no ads? It was set up just to give everyone another option for selling and buying. A global vendor search wouldn't make much difference to it as it is completely different way to shop...

Personally I use your not mentioned option C: calling out in general chat to see if people know where to get what I need.

 

[Petra Fyde]

Funnily enough, Rupert, I was just about to mention 'option C' myself as I worked my way down the thread.
Also, I see shop runes on the floor on Europa all the time, I saw 2 last night.

And 3rd, Rupert's auction site mostly caters for those folk who have just a few items to sell and who don't want to commit to permanently stocking a vendor. Any more attacks on him, or anyone else, of a personal nature will see this thread locked.
[edit]
To repeat what I just said on Europa. If whoever is spamming the shards' general chat urging people to post this thread does not stop the thread will be locked. Stratics DOES NOT endorse this activity.

 

[Jade of Sonoma]

- - etc
I think tools like the vendor search would be the next priority.

And I don't expect it to attract people to the game (that's going to require graphics and advertising) but I do expect it to help people stay once they've started.

Good point.

You've got me thinking about what would really help newer players now:

NPC mages sell spell scrolls and runes, why not have them sell Rune Books too and mark Scrolls. Would save the new players a great deal of grief having rune books available instead of hunting all over the country for an affordable vendor. I don't think we need a new thread for these types of ideas yet. Just something to think about ..

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

Ok, apology accepted...

Wasn't an apology but feel free to think it was.

To repeat what I just said on Europa. If whoever is spamming the shards' general chat urging people to post this thread does not stop the thread will be locked. Stratics DOES NOT endorse this activity.

/signed







I know I would not take another site and spam it with a site I ran or was affiliated with. Some lawyer out there could twist it to where you are using the second site to promote the first ste in a small manner. Longshot? Yeah, but them lawyers don't care about longshots, just getting in court and making that paper

 

[allie_oops]

This thread is unfortunate. People that want an in-game search are blind to how easy it is to completely exploit.

People that don't want the search are viewed as gold sellers and scripters lol.



What Rupert does (for now) appears to be with simply good intentions, but can you really fault him if he put some ads up?
Is the act of him making money that offensive to you?


This would help subscriber growth just as much as including a Todd McFarlen doll with every box of UO you purchase. This is not an opinion, it just sounds like one



I'm surprised this didn't get locked, it sort of just turned into bickering about the 1% and 99% for the last while

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

This thread is unfortunate. People that want an in-game search are blind to how easy it is to completely exploit.

People that don't want the search are viewed as gold sellers and scripters lol.

I could not agree more. There are a few of us that have been calling for an end to all of the search sites, although we are in the minority sadly.

I'm surprised this didn't get locked, it sort of just turned into bickering about the 1% and 99% for the last while

Yeah, me too. I think Petra and the mods realize how important this issue is and decided to overlook the bickering, which I am thankful for. My apologies for getting it sidetracked to everyone who was not caught up in the bickering though. I will refrain from getting into that again.... Well in this thread anyway.

 

[allie_oops]

Rebelwhat on Atlantic was just spamming gen chat for this thread too. Someone in game was saying that it's actually against ToS to do that, since Stratics hosts Ads which are 3rd party content?

Just something to be aware of, if you're spamming Gen Chat with stratics links

 

[Petra Fyde]

I was informed, in general chat, that locking the thread because of spamming in game would be an abuse of my power - However I am very, very unhappy about this constant spamming and that the implied association between Stratics and the web site this person is naming.
Stratics does NOT endorse either the website nor the spamming. Advising someone in need of playguide information to consult either Stratics or UOGuide is one thing, constantly bombarding chat with requests that people post a particular thread is another entirely.

I believe the amount of information now in this thread is entirely sufficient to convey to the developers the community's feelings on this topic, and we are aware that it has been read by at least one member of the development team. I am therefore taking the decision to lock this thread.