Classic shard.

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Tamers werent all dominance with dragons. It was a pain to control all of those creatures at once. If a tamer had more than 3 pets out at once, they would start to disobey the tamers commands. Also, people LOVED killing dragons back then. As soon as word got out there was some tamer with a bunch of dragons, people would go after them for the sole fact of being able to kill the dragons. Of course, this is when people wanted to be Glorious Lord/Lady and killing dragons was a good way to achieve that.

Was it possible for a tamer to come in with 6 dragons? Yes. Did that tamer and their dragons survive long? Not usually.

Besides, the balancing factor was that once those dragons were dead, they were dead for good. Also, they were a pain in the arse to tame back then too. I remember watching a tamer get his butt stomped by dragons while he was trying to tame one. Eventually, he brought a couple of his guildmates to try and finish the job. The whole thing took them an hour to do, just for 1 dragon. Dont get me started on how hard the White Wyrms were to tame.

The balance was there, its just that people are intimidated by the prospect of being able to control multiple dragons, when in fact, it was a pain for the tamer to get and keep control of all of those dragons.

Also, one last point, in the classic days, there were no control slots. Thats an AOS thing.

Oh, I am aware of how taming worked back then. I GM'ed taming during T2A. I don't recall having any problems controlling 4 or 5 dragons/WWs back then. I would name them A - E or F and had macros for the commands. The biggest issue was that they would get stuck on rocks and twigs and crap...like now...and you would lose one of them. But in PvP, they were pretty strong. I used to command them to stay, invis them, and run into the Orc Fort, or anywhere PKs were hanging out, then when they came chasing me ... SURPRISE! DEATH!!

My entire guild had very innovative ways of dealing with gank squads and PKs. Before certain changes were put into the game, we all used to carry Deadly Poisoned food in bags on us. Idiots would kill us, then we would watch them die from the food they ate! I posted before about carrying runes to Nu'jelm marked Guild House and fake keys. We used to surround areas, hide a large force, and send in bait...etc. Those were the good ol' days when PvP was fun! There was more to it than just button mashing and speed hacking.

Lets see.... a bone chest piece dropped your dex by -7, the arms by -2, the gloves by 0, and the leggings by -3. Yeah, thats about right, they didnt eat up your dex as much as plate.

Now was this done after they made bone armor repairable? I seem to remember bone armor, with a plate gorget (there wasnt one with bone) offering 60 AR and like - 11 or 12 dex. But that has been like 12-13 years ago now, so I could be wrong. I just remember that before it was repairable, it was disposable for the most part, but still good.

 

[Longest Journey]

Oh, I am aware of how taming worked back then. I GM'ed taming during T2A. I don't recall having any problems controlling 4 or 5 dragons/WWs back then. I would name them A - E or F and had macros for the commands. The biggest issue was that they would get stuck on rocks and twigs and crap...like now...and you would lose one of them. But in PvP, they were pretty strong. I used to command them to stay, invis them, and run into the Orc Fort, or anywhere PKs were hanging out, then when they came chasing me ... SURPRISE! DEATH!!

I remember watching a tamer struggle to keep his dragons in line on Chessapeake once. He did what you did, named them A-E, and such. I remember 2 of them went wild, one ran off and the remaining 3 got attacked by the 2 that went wild.

Then I saw that happen dozens of more time across the 3 servers I played on. It was funny......until those dragons that went wild set their sights on me.....then it was running time.

My entire guild had very innovative ways of dealing with gank squads and PKs. Before certain changes were put into the game, we all used to carry Deadly Poisoned food in bags on us. Idiots would kill us, then we would watch them die from the food they ate! I posted before about carrying runes to Nu'jelm marked Guild House and fake keys. We used to surround areas, hide a large force, and send in bait...etc. Those were the good ol' days when PvP was fun! There was more to it than just button mashing and speed hacking.

And thats what I want to see in UO again. People actually developing and using strategy as opposed to just slapping on some neon arti suit and turning on the scripts and setting the character on auto pilot.

Now was this done after they made bone armor repairable? I seem to remember bone armor, with a plate gorget (there wasnt one with bone) offering 60 AR and like - 11 or 12 dex. But that has been like 12-13 years ago now, so I could be wrong. I just remember that before it was repairable, it was disposable for the most part, but still good.

No, thats was the dex cost rundown of the bone armor back then.

The armor youre thinking of was probably invul armor. I remember I had an invul bone chest piece. It offered some pretty high AR when combined with some plate. However, it ate up almost as much dex as a plate chest. But, I eventually replaced it with an invul plate chest which offered more armor.

The Dex cost difference between a plate chest and a bone chest was 1. Plate was -8 and bone was -7. But plate offered superior AR.

Another reason I say let tailors make bone armor, its more players can craft without throwing things out of balance. And the more craftables players can offer, the healthier the economy will be.

 

[Kaleb]

You obviously never saw people camping inside of a House with large patio before. Back in T2A, some wusses would use houses like that to shoot at people from the patio. The only balancing factor was people could shoot back at them because they were open and exposed on that patio.

The problem with custom houses is players can make the ground floor completely open and wall-less and have the cover of a roof protect them. And even if you get past the front door, people will more than likely have tables locked down across the entrance barring anyone from proceeding in any farther. Not to forget, even IF you do get inside, whoever is inside will just ban you out of the house. People being shot at outside wont be able to target those shooting them from inside because the roof will block them from clicking on them. Total advantage for the people in the house, complete disadvantage for the people outside.

Custom houses work in AOS, but they wont work in a T2A setting. They leave too much room for abuse and exploitation in an open PvP setting.

I play a server now, all fel ruleset, classic housing rules but custom housing. and there is really no more of a problem than normal classic houses. I have hardly had to fight someone from their house. Ctrl+shift brings up player tags anyway, roofs wouldn't be/are not a problem.

 

[Rancid Wolf]

Just to clear things up. When referring to T2A 1998, I assume we are talking when T2A was put in, October 1998. One of the biggest things that came into effect in Feb 1999 was meditation. It’s my opinion that this skill directly effected every aspect of the game as we knew it. From PvM to PvP, from Crafting to skill gain to the economy of a server and even started creating a certain level of anti-socialism. Now like I said, this is just my opinion and I’m sure many disagree.

Here is how I feel it effected the game then and if a classic server were to be put how meditation would effect it.

PvP and Skill Gain

First, I’ll start with PvP and skill gain back when the patched was released. In Feb 1999, when the changed came into effect it was a good thing in the PvP community. Duels were shorter, PvP was more fast paced and skills such as Magery and Resists were at a minimum doubled in the rate in which they were raised. The problem with the faster skill gain is people started to spend more time macroing up characters ( to finish of current ones or when they created new ones) then actually playing the game to raise skills. You now either needed to really work on your characters skills or fall behind the pvp curve. At the time, not so much of an issue, now a days it would be cool to see people enjoying the PvP aspect of the game throughout its entirety.

If we were to see a Classic shard in today’s era it would be nice to see people out raising skills in dungeons and PvPing with less then 5 and 7x GM characters. The thing with today’s era of UO is a lot of people use voice comms which makes for synch dump pvp tactics. For those who don’t know what this is it is basically synchronizing your spells and if timed perfectly it‘s pretty much a one shot if 4+ people are casting on you at the same time or if 2 people are and you don‘t know how to heal through it. It takes an average amount of skill to do and a pretty decent amount of skill to heal through. The problem with this is the use of targeting scripts but if EA can put a stop to that it wont be a real problem. This type of pvp is also extremely fun and unless players are cheating it isn’t a down fall to the game. Off screening to avoid dumps and regain mana is another issue that would be weakened if meditation was removed. After replaying this era on a player shard I always felt I spent more time waiting for mana regains then actually fighting at times.

Having players with no meditation would allow for one of these synch dumps to go off before players were running low on mana. By wearing armour and not having passive med gains mana would take a lot longer to come back so they would use it wisely. It would lead to less off screening because more traditional Tank Mage pvp would be present due to the fact melee would be a big part of the fight. Fights would be longer and in the long run a lot more fun because if you were outnumbered heavily it wouldn’t necessarily be a one shot kill if you stayed onscreen for too long. It would also be a major change for a lot of people who have been playing both Current and Traditional UO and they would have to learn the Classic pvp mechanics together.

You also started to see less warrior type characters involved in group PvP.

PvM

The introduction of meditation made PvM A LOT easier for mages, in my opinion. Gone were the days of going out in groups to take down Lich Lords, Blood Elementals, Dragons, Poison Elementals, Orge Lords and Balrons, Daemons. Hell it took a pretty skilled player to be able to solo tough mobs pre meditation and only the ones who were good enough or went farming with their guild had the Vaq and Indestructible plate drops. More people were seen on various levels on the dungeons, farming different types of mobs for loot and money. They travelled in groups and some dungeons like Hythloth could be quite difficult on an off night. A challenge adds excitement.

With the introduction of med, basically, all you would do is cast an energy vortex, cast an energy vortex, med, cast an energy vortex, dispel and loot. That could get pretty boring after a while.

Server Economy

With people farming higher level mobs more and more players started having more and more gold. It wasn’t as difficult as it once was to buy houses, fund yourself to GM Magery and Resists or equip your characters with reags and whatever else you needed. The more money they had, the less and less they were in dungeons and the duller PvM got (for some not all). The true successful people financially back before meditation were the ones who worked hard, worked together, were exceptional PvMers or supplied the economy as a crafter.

Crafting

Let’s face it, Classic UO had some of the best crafting of any game to date. Anyone who was/is big on crafting and has played knows this. Before meditation Smiths and Miners were in higher demand. Everyone wore plate/chain in PvP and PvM. Smiths constantly had to have their vendors stocked with armor and weapons. Alchemists constantly having PoTs on their vendors. Miners could make a living off selling ingots to smiths. Mines were packed everywhere, Crafters constantly had work to do and people were entertained. I’m sure UO has done a great job with crafting post AoS ( I wouldn’t know) but this like I said, is my opinion for T2A 1998.

A small form of Anti-Socalism?

Those who played post meditation in T2A and UO:R know what I’m talking about. Did you really need anyone to go with you to farm mobs? No, you were better off soloing them. God forbid you had to share a spawn with someone, especially a non guild member.

When I first started UO it wasn’t uncommon to goto Despise or Wrong with a random person from town. The folks who I first played with would always do Hyth runs with a bunch of people.. The more people, the more fun and the less troubled they were by pks. After meditation was put in and you could pretty much solo everything, big group dungeon crawls disappeared, people stopped playing together was much as they use to me that was a sliding change in the community of UO.

Basically I think Meditation had a chain effect on these areas. Ontop of this, Tank Mage PvP with the use of Armour, Magery and two weapon skills Archery + something else really has a true classic UO feel. Those who were there know what I’m talking about and hopefully those who weren’t can experience it for themselves because true community can’t be explained and lets face it, you were either there or you weren’t. I’m pro playing either ERA of T2A but if we are talking classic, I would much rather prefer this.

People are right a new Classic server would be totally different, new people, new friends, enemies, wars and memories.

 

[Derium of ls]

Crafting

Let’s face it, Classic UO had some of the best crafting of any game to date. Anyone who was/is big on crafting and has played knows this. Before meditation Smiths and Miners were in higher demand. Everyone wore plate/chain in PvP and PvM. Smiths constantly had to have their vendors stocked with armor and weapons. Alchemists constantly having PoTs on their vendors. Miners could make a living off selling ingots to smiths. Mines were packed everywhere, Crafters constantly had work to do and people were entertained. I’m sure UO has done a great job with crafting post AoS ( I wouldn’t know) but this like I said, is my opinion for T2A 1998.

I only log on with my 7x mule, and I haven't crafted anything other than chests for my house since the first day of AOS.

I really only have two requirements for a classic shard:

1. pre:AOS, UO was NEVER meant to be World of Warcraft (I suppose Diablo 2 fits the time better, but still), stop trying.

and 2. bring back the rares market!! even allow the monthly items turned back on (haven't checked them in a looooong time, but word is they are turned off). And stop killing it, go to the rares forums a lot of it is; "is this rare?". Back when I was a big collector we knew what was and wasn't rare 99% of the time. my first big buy was a pure mandrake root for 3mil, I jumped on it cause i knew it wasn't some new craftable that just came out.

for any collector that remembers up untill about 2003ish you remember how strong collecting was.

*sigh* I need to stop of I'll blow up. but yeah, those are the two things I want to see. Plus as Vampire of Baja (She still around?) said, rares could be the biggest gold sink ever, if done correctly.

 

[Evlar]

If anyone knows a pre-AOS/Second Age era "free" shard based in Europe I can look at, please PM me with the details. I would like to do a little comparitive research for more suggestions regarding an "official" classic shard. Needs to be European, as my ping to servers elsewhere is poor.

All of my suggestions and comments thus far are based upon my memories of official game servers between 1999 and 2003, so I would like to re-visit the pre-AOS gaming experience now, so anything I comment on is more informed, rather than reliance on memory

As for some of the more recent comments, regarding crafting, I whole heartedly agree. I loved crafting back then. Not everyone wants to craft, but I always took pride back then in serving the community with my wares and repairs

There was a lot more interaction involved with crafting back then. Nowadays, most everything is done through vendors. I always preferred to stand at West Brit Bank or Britain Forge on the way to the cemetary. By offering my services in person, I would always strike up new relationships with other players, who otherwise, I might never have met.

 

[Trebr Drab]

You obviously never saw people camping inside of a House with large patio before. Back in T2A, some wusses would use houses like that to shoot at people from the patio. The only balancing factor was people could shoot back at them because they were open and exposed on that patio.

The problem with custom houses is players can make the ground floor completely open and wall-less and have the cover of a roof protect them. And even if you get past the front door, people will more than likely have tables locked down across the entrance barring anyone from proceeding in any farther. Not to forget, even IF you do get inside, whoever is inside will just ban you out of the house. People being shot at outside wont be able to target those shooting them from inside because the roof will block them from clicking on them. Total advantage for the people in the house, complete disadvantage for the people outside.

Custom houses work in AOS, but they wont work in a T2A setting. They leave too much room for abuse and exploitation in an open PvP setting.

I play a server now, all fel ruleset, classic housing rules but custom housing. and there is really no more of a problem than normal classic houses. I have hardly had to fight someone from their house. Ctrl+shift brings up player tags anyway, roofs wouldn't be/are not a problem.

Yeah, it's really the same problem, and not having custom housing would not fix it. Although custom housing would allow for all attacks from all 4 sides. But this is why, again, we need a justice system that works. Such PKers would soon be red, and an organized attack against them would send them into the penalty.

 

[tenduil]

A Second Age type server would be worthwhile. No Trammel. Yes it is less housing but the biggest issue with shard populations (free and EA) is the player dispersion. If lag is not an issue the more players on one shard the better. That is what will bring and keep players.

Until this becomes a reality there is a free shard out there that is the best bet for those looking for a 'classic' experience because classic didn't involve trammel.

 

[tenduil]

If anyone knows a pre-AOS/Second Age era "free" shard based in Europe I can look at, please PM me with the details. I would like to do a little comparitive research for more suggestions regarding an "official" classic shard. Needs to be European, as my ping to servers elsewhere is poor.

All of my suggestions and comments thus far are based upon my memories of official game servers between 1999 and 2003, so I would like to re-visit the pre-AOS gaming experience now, so anything I comment on is more informed, rather than reliance on memory

As for some of the more recent comments, regarding crafting, I whole heartedly agree. I loved crafting back then. Not everyone wants to craft, but I always took pride back then in serving the community with my wares and repairs

There was a lot more interaction involved with crafting back then. Nowadays, most everything is done through vendors. I always preferred to stand at West Brit Bank or Britain Forge on the way to the cemetary. By offering my services in person, I would always strike up new relationships with other players, who otherwise, I might never have met.

There are free shards that have real good, close representation of the classic UO. European players play there as well.
If EA needs a example theres one out there.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Hi Tenduil,

You might want to remove that link to, and the name of, that free shard. It is against the rules here to post that stuff.

Just FYI.

 

[tenduil]

Hi Tenduil,

You might want to remove that link to, and the name of, that free shard. It is against the rules here to post that stuff.

Just FYI.

Thanks Morgana. Editted it. Its relevant but I guess if people posted links alot it could lead to spam postings.

If that guy wants he can PM me for info.

I'm all for EA doing this but we'll see..

 

[Tanivar]

Where is this discussion at now as far as general agreement on what a Classic Shard would be? Things any closer to becoming something the Devs can toss on the table for discussion?

I'm of course particularly interested in the anti-griefing topic. The housecleaning by thieves would be another form of player-annoying play.

 

[Evlar]

Thanks for the PM tenduil. I already have an account set up there. Connection is a little slow, but I'm getting around ok.

You know, the daft thing is... the hardest part is getting used to the 2d client again!!

The gameplay is great, but I am missing the UI of the "enhanced" client. This is the strange part for me. I always preferred pre-AOS gameplay, but I always liked the newer clients, apart from KR, which although graphically ok, crashed all the time for me. I especially had fun "dancing" with the 3d client... but that's covered in an entirely different thread around here somewhere

So, improving the technology to play the game is a good thing, whilst changing the gameplay into something entirely different (item based), is a bad thing.

 

[Derium of ls]

Where is this discussion at now as far as general agreement on what a Classic Shard would be? Things any closer to becoming something the Devs can toss on the table for discussion?

I'm of course particularly interested in the anti-griefing topic. The housecleaning by thieves would be another form of player-annoying play.

to be honest I think the best thing to do would be for all of us to tackle ALL points each, putting things up to a vote among interested players (somehow we need to reach all the old school players whom are waiting for a classic shard, I called 3 friends and all of them are excited about the possible classic shard... wow, longest ( ) of my life here hah).

for example, we need to march into the rares forums and start casting votes to them and see what they would want, like keeping monethlies turned off, or on ect ect.

what does a theif want, people who hate them? and find a balance. none of that is easy AT ALL. but the only chance we have (we have been waiting SEVEN years for a classic server) is for us the players to hammer out fine details most (over 50%? 75%? I dunno) can agree on. and then take it to EA in a well thought out manner.

or maybe do an exact clone of 1998 ( I believe that has the most votes) and then start voting for what additions, like custom homes, improved vendor menus ext that players would want added.

sorry for this jumbled mess!

 

[Tanivar]

is for us the players to hammer out fine details most (over 50%? 75%? I dunno) can agree on. and then take it to EA in a well thought out manner.

I'd say 75% would be a good target. There will be people at either end who want their way, and only their way, and will never compromise. Just the way it is.

My own preferences have been expressed in the first four or five pages of this thread. On the topic of houses being easily cleaned out, my solution at worst would just be to play out of the bankboxes. No point in working for weeks or months and losing it all to a house break in. I'd much rather have a house but the hassles mentioned in the last couple of pages clearly show that would be a pita.

To get rid of the AOS garbage in the game, it would be worth shifting to a Classic Shard as long as it's not a grief-fest. A Classic Shard with the garbage that gave me my opinion of fel would not be worth bothering making characters for.

 

[tenduil]

or maybe do an exact clone of 1998 ( I believe that has the most votes)

This is the best bet. When you start to add 'custom homes' or what certain players want you end up with a server that is 10% one time frame, 10% another and so on. You can not make everybody happy.

Without naming the server there is a 'classic' uo server that has been up and running for years now with a player base consistently above 500. That's one free server; let along how many current paying players on other servers would be willing to join. Would the free players xfer? I would bet a bunch would if it was guarunteed the server wouldn't be shut down.

I don't think a vote to get people's idea's would be beneficial; you would end up in a circle of trying to make people happy. The 'cleanest' bet is to pick a 'classic' time frame and create a shard that mirrors that up until a certain point .... such as make a Second Age Server (the one with the most votes in the poll) and put into place all features up to a certain publish or update from back in 2000 or 2001.
That prevents nit picking, the 'oh but I really wanted XYZ feature', etc.

Also as a side note I tried to post a topic in the DEV folder that (at least I thought) got to the point and tried to get an answer but it seems the admins here didn't like it.
This thread is 8 pages and from my understanding is not the first thread on this topic. Why don't we talk to the admins to get a DEV thread with feedback? This would solve alot of the questions/problems with a response from the team....

 

[Guido_LS]

This is the best bet. When you start to add 'custom homes' or what certain players want you end up with a server that is 10% one time frame, 10% another and so on. You can not make everybody happy.

Without naming the server there is a 'classic' uo server that has been up and running for years now with a player base consistently above 500. That's one free server; let along how many current paying players on other servers would be willing to join. Would the free players xfer? I would bet a bunch would if it was guarunteed the server wouldn't be shut down.

I don't think a vote to get people's idea's would be beneficial; you would end up in a circle of trying to make people happy. The 'cleanest' bet is to pick a 'classic' time frame and create a shard that mirrors that up until a certain point .... such as make a Second Age Server (the one with the most votes in the poll) and put into place all features up to a certain publish or update from back in 2000 or 2001.
That prevents nit picking, the 'oh but I really wanted XYZ feature', etc.

Also as a side note I tried to post a topic in the DEV folder that (at least I thought) got to the point and tried to get an answer but it seems the admins here didn't like it.
This thread is 8 pages and from my understanding is not the first thread on this topic. Why don't we talk to the admins to get a DEV thread with feedback? This would solve alot of the questions/problems with a response from the team....

The only reason this thread has been allowed to exist this long is -

a) It has been, for the most part, civil, and either self-policed, or the mods paring out the inappropriate parts

and

b) it was let out by the lead Dev that they *MIGHT* be thinking about *POSSIBLY* opening up a classic server, something anyone official from EA has poo'd on for, well, forever.

So, in all honesty, it's in our best interest to hash out what is wanted, come to them with a concensus, and see if they decide to follow through on the double maybe. Pushing our luck beyond that is exactly that - pushing our luck.

edit - add

And so far, at least part of the general concensus has been that no era has been perfect, and that some very basic changes need to be made regardless of which era it was.

 

[Derium of ls]

I say first step is to clone 1998, BUT some updates like improved vendor menus ect ect are a good thing. so start with the server and go from there. the main thing I worry about it server births, they turned those off before that made LA even right? yeah, that needs to be fixed. they were intentional (most) and it's part of our history, plus rares is a HUGE trade.

but I will agree that it's sad stratics won't allow a classic shard question through. I agree with every non-stratics member; EA turning the wellbeing of their game over to stratics was the WORST idea ever. I'm a markee dragon founder, and long time reader of UOforums, both of which hate stratics for solid reasons, I also hate this place and still feel dirty being here, they have done nothing but build a negative rep since their get go almost. but alas, I'm forced to be here because they are now the gateway to the devs and such. sad, but hey, nothing I can do.

 

[CmdrAkbar]

Re: Classic shard: Narrowing the gaps

I was apart of UO from 1997-2003 and would gladly pay whatever cost to play UO again on a classic shard.

 

[CmdrAkbar]

to me its real simple. I have never paid EA another dime since 2003 and I would pay for the box game $50 and whatever monthly cost to play on a EA supported classic shard. And that is the only way they'll ever see another dime from me, so to me its simple economics.

 

[Unsatisfied]

Again it seems we've come to a general agreement. My only hope from making this thread now is that the devs actually take some notice, they mention a maybe... And we get 8 pages (on like the 5th thread) of people 90% supporting the idea. Imagine if they actually said it was happening.

 

[Longest Journey]

I play a server now, all fel ruleset, classic housing rules but custom housing. and there is really no more of a problem than normal classic houses. I have hardly had to fight someone from their house. Ctrl+shift brings up player tags anyway, roofs wouldn't be/are not a problem.

Well, bud, those are the controls for that server. Ctrl+shift doesnt work in UO.

Yeah, they would be a problem. Its a problem now with AOS and its going to be WORSE in a T2A setting.

No custom houses. Its a small price to pay compared to the bigger picture. For the sake of balance, custom housing has no place on a T2A server.

 

[Longest Journey]

Yeah, it's really the same problem, and not having custom housing would not fix it. Although custom housing would allow for all attacks from all 4 sides. But this is why, again, we need a justice system that works. Such PKers would soon be red, and an organized attack against them would send them into the penalty.

Well, like I said before, the only classic house that permitted one to attack from a patio was the large house with a patio building. And, even then, the people attacking from in the house have to step out onto the patio to attack others. Those patios were WIDE open to fire back at them. It was, in a sense, a fair fight, unless you had to ranged attacking abilities.

Not having custom housing would put a serious halt to house PKs. They'd only have one style of house to attack with, as opposed to being able to place a 7x7, leave the bottom floor open with no walls but something to block the steps with, and attack people from inside the safety of their turret house.

The justice system cant stop people from making turret houses and attacking from within them. Unless you can FORCE someone out of their own house because they are red, which will NEVER happen, theres no way to attack them, no matter how organized the attack by anti's going after them.

Custom housing will NOT work in a classic server setting. Its too open to abuse and exploitation.

If people need more housing options, then add in the housing designs from Reniassance.

Sandstone house
Large Marble Patio
Log Cabin
Small Tower
The Small Workshops

Otherwise, no custom houses.

 

[Guido_LS]

Well, bud, those are the controls for that server. Ctrl+shift doesnt work in UO.

ctrl-shift works quite well in UO, and has for a while.

 

[Longest Journey]

ctrl-shift works quite well in UO, and has for a while.

If it has, then it must have been put in after AOS, because frankly I dont remember ever using a comand like that to pull up everyones name around me in T2A. If it was back in T2A, then no one used it because I hid behind several houses to get away from reds back in the day.

Even then still doesnt prevent turret houses and easy mode house PvPing. I dont want to see bands of wusses hiding in these wall-less first floor houses and potshotting people with no risk of getting shot back at. And custom housing flings the door for that WIDE open.

 

[Kaleb]

Well, bud, those are the controls for that server. Ctrl+shift doesnt work in UO.

Yeah, they would be a problem. Its a problem now with AOS and its going to be WORSE in a T2A setting.

No custom houses. Its a small price to pay compared to the bigger picture. For the sake of balance, custom housing has no place on a T2A server.

Well bud its the same UI we use on EA , and Ctrl+Shift been around pre AOS. works great, i have it set as g-18 so I dont have to hit 2 keys. I have looted so much with that combo. Until you play with custom housing with old housing rules then you would have some weight to ur text, It works just as good as the classic housing in my experience.

In the beginning of this thread we wanted to attract all playstyles not just a percentage. when you weed out some of the things of modern uo that are not unbalancing to combat, you exclude other playstyles, other playstyles that are vital to the shard to prosper.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

I think for the sake of historical accuracy, and to prevent abuse, that custom housing should be left out of a Classic Shard.

I have custom houses on Atlantic, and I really love them...and I loved making them, but I can see this being problematic on a Classic Shard. The ability for players to create "turrets" is one problem, and the ability for them to create ridiculous eyesores is another.

Just use the 1998 housing system and be done with it. That's my opinion.

 

[Kaleb]

to hell with historical accuracy, being that if they didnt create tram, PuB16, AOS. we would pretty much be playing a t2a server. using a Turret is illegal anyway. Besides in a tram free shard one would be pretty stupid to leave their house open to attack. Like I said before, I would like to see a shard in the spirit of t2a with some of the great modern additions(not unbalancing to combat) that has been made to game, doesn't have to include lands, though Ilsh. wouldn't be bad. I cant see myself playing a 10+ YO system, It was flawed back then, and pretty stale of things you can do, It got very boring. IMHO a straight up t2a server would see a boom in its initial launch but soon start to thin out due to the fact there is more to do on today's servers. Even todays UI although basically the same has come a long way its self.

If UO never added a trammel, pub16, or AOS, would people be asking for a Classic shard? Of course not. being we never posted topics for a "Classic" shard until after AOS changed the game.

 

[Llewen]

There's something that those agitating for a classic shard don't seem to get, and it is becoming clear in this thread. At no point in it's lifetime was UO ever perfect. There was no point in UO's lifetime, not even way back in whatever mythical time you happen to think was UO's zenith, where there weren't plenty of complaints about all kinds of issues. If a classic shard is created that reverts to a particular time period all the issues that were present in game, all the imbalances and bugs, all the exploits that have been fixed since then will either have to be fixed, or they will be recreated.

There is something in psychology called "the halo effect". It happens when we tend to think of a subject as all good, or all bad, and in doing so ignore or forget all the evidence that contradicts that general impression. This applies perfectly to the views of many who are asking for a classic shard. They seem to think that at some point in UO's history there was a time when the game was as perfect as it will ever be, and forget that there was never a time when UO wasn't plagued by bugs, imbalances, exploits, cheats, haves and have-nots, anti-social pricks, and the list is endless.

I don't have a problem with a "classic shard" if it replaces Siege and Mugen, but I don't want to see a third rules set being supported that pulls development bandwidth away from the core game as it exists now. Because if a "classic" shard is created the devs aren't going to be able to simply set it up and let it run. There are going to be bugs that will need to be fixed, exploits that will need to be fixed, imbalances that will need to be addressed, and development decisions that will have to be made.

 

[Evlar]

I don't think there's such a thing as "perfection" Llewen. It simply doesn't exist in reality. In a game as complex as this, as with other games I could mention, there's simply so many variables involved that as soon as you fix one problem, another unforseen one surfaces. I would love to see anyone show me an example of a "perfect" and fully completed, bug/issue free/flawless game in the history of the games industry. Therefore any game of this nature, is always likely to be "work in progress".

I would argue that nobody has thus far stated that the pre-AOS era was perfect. Otherwise, I doubt there would have been as much debate regarding different issues and aspects of gameplay, as there has been in this thread. So clearly, there were issues for people with aspects of the game back then. I think what's important, is to reach a general agreement about what we're all going to be most happy with, flaws and issues aside.

I think the essence of what people want is the gameplay of the era, rather than that which has transpired since AOS was introduced. The beauty of hidsight, is the ability to perhaps fix flaws in the game mechanics, isolate certain bugs and exploits, in time. I think it's also fair to say that in doing so, there's always the chance you cause an issue elsewhere. That's something we would have to live with if the classic shard were to become a reality.

Rather than remove servers from the populations of Siege and Mugen, I'm more in favour of seperate "classic " servers, though I do understand where you're coming from Llewen and agree to a certain extent. In an ideal world, I would like nothing more than EA/Mythic to produce something for those of use craving a classic era game, which has little to no impact on those who aren't interested in it.

To be completely frank though, you could suggest there's a large portion of shards that are underpopulated and declining further, not just Siege and Mugen. You're then getting into another debate entirely, which is to suggest that instead of the many servers we have available now, servers should be closed altogether, or merged.

Consolidation is actually something I've been in favour of for some time, as I much prefer to see well populated servers. Without a doubt, there will be upset caused at the loss of "history" associated with the servers that failed to make the cut. Longer term, I've always felt consolidation would be a good thing, if it was done properly and players who had to move shards, were compensated appropriately. Free character transfers, perhaps some bonus game-time, something along those lines.

For example, I've often been in favour of a merge between Europa and Drachenfels. Europa seems to have a decent population, whilst Drachenfels doesn't. Both servers are based in London. An alternative could be to keep Europa as it is and make Drachenfels the European "classic" server. Same could be done in each continental "zone" I'm sure.

Whether anyone at EA/Mythic is prepared to accept the potential risk of losing players, in order to consolidate and potentially gain longer term, is anyone's guess. It would be a very bold decision, as it clearly isn't the "easy" option, which would be to do and change nothing whatsoever.

EA seem happy to consolidate and merge when it comes to the development teams, so it might not actually be a surprise if doing so with the servers was considered a "way forward" with the game.

 

[Longest Journey]

Well bud its the same UI we use on EA , and Ctrl+Shift been around pre AOS. works great, i have it set as g-18 so I dont have to hit 2 keys. I have looted so much with that combo. Until you play with custom housing with old housing rules then you would have some weight to ur text, It works just as good as the classic housing in my experience.

And I have an aching feeling that your experience is flawed. It wouldnt surprise me if you were one of those house PKs who hides in your turret house and potshots newbies who run by because they dont see you hiding there in your fortress of noobitude.

Because, that would be the only reason I could see anyone supporting custom houses; for the horribly unbalanced advantage turret houses give.

Also, youre on a custom free server. They can say they have classic rules, but when it comes down to it, it isnt a truly classic server. Its merely the interpretation of what the person who made the server believes a classic server should have been, not what it actually was. So you're "proof" is speculation and hear-say. If there is one thing felucca of today is good for is proof of how custom houses will be exploited by house PKs. House PKs have it on easy street there by hiding in their turret houses and picking people off. If that is allowed in a T2A classic server, it will be a disaster.

Then lets move onto the size of the custom plots. They are larger than the majority of the classic houses offered in T2A. They are cheaper, yet eat up way more space than the classic houses. Back in the day, a lot of people had houses. Most, if not all, if them were the small hut houses like the small fieldstone or small plaster houses. The houses of the old days were reasonably sized to accomodate the ingame world's size.

So, bottom line, the only people I see benefiting from custom houses in a T2A setting are A.) house PKS and B.) people who run scams like UOHousing does.

In the beginning of this thread we wanted to attract all playstyles not just a percentage. when you weed out some of the things of modern uo that are not unbalancing to combat, you exclude other playstyles, other playstyles that are vital to the shard to prosper.

Well then you have no idea how people react to open PvP settings then. The best hope this game has is to attract its old veterans who played back before Renaissance. Youre not going to get "all playstyles", youre going to get a percentage, and nothing more. Because, frankly, the majority of players out there are creations of the EQ/WoW clone craze addicted to their item pixle crack craving that next patch that adds in the next series of over powered items for them to continue suckling like the sheep they are at the teat of item slavery, yearning for that next corrupting drop of hollow gameplay.

That wasnt what UO was about. The game had substance. There was something to the game play that made even messing around for 5 hours worth the money paid every month to play.

Also, I dont think that even half of the people who want a classic server will shed even a single tear over there being no custom houses. Why? Because they are eyesores and exploits waiting to happen.

So let me tell you something here and now. UO has but one hope, and that is to attract all of its old NICHE players from before. This game was never meant to be mainstream, it was always off beat, it was always niche, it targeted and apealed to a certain percentage of specific types of players who enjoyed a living, breathing, world full of danger and unpredictability that kept them on their toes. And in this world, people chose different paths for themselves. Some chose crafting, others combat, some magic, or a mix of them all because they could.

And there is only ONE way to get those players to come back or even take this classic server business seriously, and that way is to make a classic server completely PURGED of all AOS content and all of the exploits, glitches and game breaking boondogles that were added with it.

 

[Tanivar]

I would argue that nobody has thus far stated that the pre-AOS era was perfect.

Getting rid of AOS was the first thing we settled in this thread.

Beyond that, just kick it back far enough that the changes that made Tram nessesary, and made Post-UO:Ren's Fel the ghosttown it remains to this day, are undone.

If non-PvP blue characters can't survive long enough for their players to enjoy the hoped for Classic Shard, it won't keep enough players to make it worthwhile setting up.

 

[Longest Journey]

Getting rid of AOS was the first thing we settled in this thread.

Beyond that, just kick it back far enough that the changes that made Tram nessesary, and made Post-UO:Ren's Fel the ghosttown it remains to this day, are undone.

Fel wasnt a ghost town after Reniassance. People stayed behind. There were more people in felucca back then than there are now.

The reason its such a ghost town today is because all of UO is a ghost town.

Also, trammel was never necessary. It was simply EA/OSI trying to get in on the no-pvp hype generated by EQ and its kiddie friendly gameplay.

If non-PvP blue characters can't survive long enough for their players to enjoy the hoped for Classic Shard, it won't keep enough players to make it worthwhile setting up.

Non-PvP blue characters survived far longer than you know back in T2A. Thats why the majority of every server was blue and even more were GM in at least 3-4 skills. Now how could they achieve GM'ing any skill if they couldnt stay alive to work the skills up? The answer is simple, things werent as bad as you claim. The phantom tales of red dominance, seiging towns, and insta killing anyone caught outside of town are just that, phantoms. They have no basis. Just spin and rehtoric spread by people who couldnt handle PvP and broke down every time they got PK'd.

Now, its been agreed that statloss should come back as a way to knock reds out of the killing business for a few days at a time while they wait off their counts and work their characters back up. Seems like a pretty good counter measure to me and to a lot of other people.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

Originally Posted by Guido_LS View Post
ctrl-shift works quite well in UO, and has for a while.

...

If it has, then it must have been put in after AOS

Ctrl-Shift tags were originally added in with the 3d client and later on ported to the 2d client several years after being in the 3d client.

I guess while you're at it, you'll have to revert ALL of the 2d enhancements that came from the 3d client (i.e. paperdoll slots for small jewelry items, shift-double click to buy out an NPCs stack, etc).

 

[Llewen]

Beyond that, just kick it back far enough that the changes that made Tram nessesary, and made Post-UO:Ren's Fel the ghosttown it remains to this day, are undone.

There were no changes that "made Trammel necessary". It was a response to a declining player population which was due in part to rampant player killing and griefing, but even more than that, the release of Everquest. The creation of Trammel was a development choice that was made. It wasn't necessary, but in the short term it did accomplish it's objective. UO experienced it's highest population levels in it's history in the year or so that followed the introduction of Trammel.

 

[Tanivar]

Beyond that, just kick it back far enough that the changes that made Tram nessesary, and made Post-UO:Ren's Fel the ghosttown it remains to this day, are undone.

There were no changes that "made Trammel necessary".

There were posts above from people who played back then that said EA removed penalties for PKing in the months before Ren was released. I'm going by those posts. I came to UO fall of 2000.

Fel, during the months following my joining the game was a quick way to play in black & white.

 

[tenduil]

Also, youre on a custom free server. They can say they have classic rules, but when it comes down to it, it isnt a truly classic server. Its merely the interpretation of what the person who made the server believes a classic server should have been, not what it actually was. So you're "proof" is speculation and hear-say. If there is one thing felucca of today is good for is proof of how custom houses will be exploited by house PKs. House PKs have it on easy street there by hiding in their turret houses and picking people off. If that is allowed in a T2A classic server, it will be a disaster.

The T2A server I play on is NOT somebody's interpretation of the game but rather exactly as it was based on actual uo patches, updates,and publishes. Basically it's The Second Age!

The only houses are the classic houses - ie: no 3 story small tower.

EA should basically copy the free shard I play on...

 

[tenduil]

The only reason this thread has been allowed to exist this long is -

a) It has been, for the most part, civil, and either self-policed, or the mods paring out the inappropriate parts

and

b) it was let out by the lead Dev that they *MIGHT* be thinking about *POSSIBLY* opening up a classic server, something anyone official from EA has poo'd on for, well, forever.

So, in all honesty, it's in our best interest to hash out what is wanted, come to them with a concensus, and see if they decide to follow through on the double maybe. Pushing our luck beyond that is exactly that - pushing our luck.

edit - add

And so far, at least part of the general concensus has been that no era has been perfect, and that some very basic changes need to be made regardless of which era it was.

I'd rather have DEV feedback now so we know this entire talk/debate is actually worthwhile. Even a simple: yes we might be interested in that what can the community recommend/suggest/ anything.

There will never be a concensus. The majority of ppl want a Second Age server. There is a perfect example of one as a free server with all the data on UO/EA publishes to show what was correct/broken/etc to put together a Second Age server with little to no hassle.

Until a DEV become part of the talks this is all just hot air.

 

[Derium of ls]

The T2A server I play on is NOT somebody's interpretation of the game but rather exactly as it was based on actual uo patches, updates,and publishes. Basically it's The Second Age!

The only houses are the classic houses - ie: no 3 story small tower.

EA should basically copy the free shard I play on...

The free server I'm on is pre-UO:R, but has custom homes (amazing that you can't find a house spot on a free server!) and some other interesting perks like Texas Hold'em. It's not meant to be an exact clone of UO from 98-00ish, but it has the perks most of us want, it's not a wow clone like todays UO

 

[Derium of ls]

also, to be honest I think the wrong thing is for us to post on the fourms waiting for a Dev to respond. players have been complaining for YEARS about no classic server. we should be calling EA and demanding the product that we as customers want. It's the whole "squeaky wheel" thing.

 

[Evlar]

Well, at least the devs could tell us who their particular EA manager/representitive is, so we could camp outside their house with banners and stuff.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

but I don't want to see a third rules set being supported that pulls development bandwidth away from the core game as it exists now.

This is exactly what I said before every expansion since T2A.

This is exactly what I said before they released not 2, but 3 "enhanced" clients that no one uses.

This is exactly what I said when they put in Trammel.

This is exactly what I said when they put in AoS.


You, and people like yourself, have 26...TWENTY SIX...different shards that are up and running that cater specifically to your playstyle and desires.

All we want is one. Just one shard.

Why is it so hard for current players that like the current game to understand that there are many of us that don't like what they did to our game? We pay our money just like you do...but yet we are supposed to just "adapt" to the playstyle that you like?

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

This is exactly what I said before they released not 2, but 3 "enhanced" clients that no one uses.

YAY I'm a NOBODY

 

[Kaleb]

The free server I'm on is pre-UO:R, but has custom homes (amazing that you can't find a house spot on a free server!) and some other interesting perks like Texas Hold'em. It's not meant to be an exact clone of UO from 98-00ish, but it has the perks most of us want, it's not a wow clone like todays UO

I think its better than second age, but keeps within the spirit of 2nd age.

 

[Reximus]

I don't know if any of the half million plus people on the free shards will come back

Half a million? hahahahahaha, more like half a thousand.

 

[tenduil]

Half a million? hahahahahaha, more like half a thousand.

There's 500+ unique ip's on just the t2a server I play on...

 

[Reximus]

There's 500+ unique ip's on just the t2a server I play on...

Far cry from half a million.

 

[tenduil]

Far cry from half a million.

True but again thats just one server. I don't expect 1/2 a million but I do wonder what the min # would be for EA to fiscally be able to do it...

 

[Unsatisfied]

True but again thats just one server. I don't expect 1/2 a million but I do wonder what the min # would be for EA to fiscally be able to do it...

3516

 

[Rancid Wolf]

One smart thing EA could do would be to talk to the guy who runs the T2A freeshard and talk to the guy who ran the successful one that brought 2k players to the game in 2004. These guys have a decent following and could probably help their cause a lot since they both are in love with classic UO and been trying to get a classic server open for years.