Classic shard.

[Kinks]

I check these forums every few months for the sole purpose of seeing if a classic shard will be implemented. So, reporting in to show my support.

 

[Llamfia]

http://www.petitiononline.com/bbuo/petition.html

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/...offered-preAOS-servers-would-you-go-back.html

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/...1/Honestly-its-time-for-a-classic-server.html


Those are just 3 of many many links.

Notice how many people from Ultima Online played Darkfall, just looking for something that resembled Classic UO, [we] are all going from game to game looking for something close to The Second Age. If this server came up with the right features of the past, nothing special/no one wants anything different than the old ruleset/ then that whole hoard would come in a heartbeat.

I'm not aloud to say anything about this , but what about the tens of thousands of people that play on pirated servers, the thousands that go from game to game looking for a game like uo, then the other thousand that just roam around forums talking about Ultima Online and how good it was, and if a classic server went up, how they would join in a heartbeat.

""heres just a random forum i have been on"" searched Ultima Online and look at all the posters

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=113856751&highlight=ultima+online

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Well...

Looks like someone beat me to it!

Just as well...


I hope the mods and admins here do not delete your post, or remove those links.


I think it is important that people understand how much some of us miss the old game.

 

[Longest Journey]

You understand that T2A did not include Trammel, right?

Thats why I said, the people want T2A, they just want britannia.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Thats why I said, the people want T2A, they just want britannia.

But the T2A lands weren't part of Britannia. Cromwell and his party discovered them later. They are part of Sosaria, but not Britannia.

 

[Longest Journey]

So what you are saying is there should be one playstyle only, and if you don't want to be involved in that playstyle...don't play.

No, what Im saying is, one can PvM to ones hearts content, just be ready to, at some time or another, expect to have to deal with PvP due the fact that the game is PvP. Adapt, learn, survive, not whine, cry, and complain to the devs and GMs.

Path A is the path of a true mature gamer.

Path B is the path of immaturity and childishness. This is the path that ruined UO.

We have that setup now with the Tram/Fel split. The people that want to be involved in PvP stay in Fel...all dozen or so of them. Everyone else is in Tram.

Do you know why there are so few PvPers left in Fel? Have you taken a look at how the game is set up recently? Its all about what artifacts and speed hacks you have. The PvPers of old have long since left because the PvP isnt based on skill or knowing your character and how to properly work the skills.

Today, the PvP is all about farming up uber artis at the peerlesses, downloading the lateste speed hacks, setting the character to auto pilot, and sitting back and do nothing.

Because back in the old days of UO, unlike today, the community was strong enough that many players actually met one another and got to know one another outside the game.

Yeah thats.......thats wonderful....... good for them.......

That only referres to a very minute number of people who actually met other people from UO in person.

And that is your opinion...but not your decision to make.

No, its a fact. Perma-death in an MMO is a horrible idea. Thats why no one, not even Darkfall, which claimed it would be uber hard core, would even consider it for their servers.

And so the thread degrades into name calling...

Hey, Spock was quite possibly the greatest Vulcan of all time. Seriously, who else but Spock could have kept bailing Kirk's fat but outt of the plasma fire for all those years?

Hippie commune? Well, from the sound of things, thats how you were describing your vision for UO. You seem to have this....how can I put it?.......seething hatred for reds and want to completely discourage PKing on the classic server all together. From the way you present your position, you want everyone to get along, no one to fight eachother, no one to be mean to eachother, and for everyone to work together. By definition, that is a commune.

Ive said whiners at least a dozen or so times in this thread, yet NOW you bring it up? Running out of argument, eh? Dont worry about it. You put up a good fight while you could, take pride in that.

The newbie pants, that was in no way derrogatory. We all had newbie pants at one time, and newbie shirts, weapons, and that candle and book they used to start us out with.(Do they still do that?) And we all lost them at one point. I remember when I lost my first pair of newbie pants. It was like an episode of the Noob Comic.

Pantless Newbie Crowd

Pssst, I was the guy selling the rusty axe.....

And, yes, it was very immature of people who knew what they were getting into to complain about getting PK'd. Instead of just learning how to adapt and handle the situation like adults, they did what children lacking emotional maturity does and cries to the nearest authority figure. That is, by definition, immature.

...well, if it doesn't get locked, it might as well be for me. I am not going to trade insults with you...I am done here.

Why is it going to get locked? Compared to the other threads there have been on this topic, this one is a purring kitten.

Looks like a short-sighted "me,me,me!!" red will ruin the thread as they did the game...

...what a shame.

No, what WAS the perfect example of "short-sighted" and "me me me me" was the people who couldnt handle PvP bugging the GMs and devs with constant complaints and phatom tales of getting constantly killed and getting the game completely and utterly changed to suit their specific needs and alienating the rest of the player base. Now there is a perfect example of selfishness.

As for being a red, it happened once, but that was because two guys ran through my mage's fire field, made me grey, and thought they would get an easy kill. I ended up killing both of them and was flagged red for a few days. Now those guys, yeah, they were jerks and gave PvP a bad name. But they learned a valuable lesson: Numbers are nothing against skill.

 

[Longest Journey]

But the T2A lands weren't part of Britannia. Cromwell and his party discovered them later. They are part of Sosaria, but not Britannia.

Britannia is Sosaria. They just called it Britannia after Lord Cantabrigian British, aka Lord British, came to Sosaria from Earth and first defeated Mondain.

So, if its part of Sosaria, its part of Britannia.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

No, what Im saying is, one can PvM to ones hearts content, just be ready to, at some time or another, expect to have to deal with PvP due the fact that the game is PvP. Adapt, learn, survive, not whine, cry, and complain to the devs and GMs.

Again, you miss the point.

Personally, I am totally fine with a free-for-all, no consequence, PvP shard. The problem is, 99% of the UO population isn't. So unless you want to be on a Classic Shard occupied by yourself and about a half dozen of your closest PvP friends, it is in your best interest to understand why they "whined, cried, and complained"...otherwise they won't waste their time joining a Classic Shard. They will stay right where they are, and consider this entire discussion a "waste of resources". Because that is exactly what happened when they got a chance to go to Trammel. Get it?

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Britannia is Sosaria. They just called it Britannia after Lord Cantabrigian British, aka Lord British, came to Sosaria from Earth and first defeated Mondain.

So, if its part of Sosaria, its part of Britannia.

So you would consider Tokuno to be a part of Britannia by that token? And Trammel, and Fel, and Ilshenar, and even Malas?

They all exist in the world of Sosaria...but according to the original map, they were not part of the continent of Britannia...same as the Lost Lands.

 

[Longest Journey]

Again, you miss the point.

Personally, I am totally fine with a free-for-all, no consequence, PvP shard. The problem is, 99% of the UO population isn't. So unless you want to be on a Classic Shard occupied by yourself and about a half dozen of your closest PvP friends, it is in your best interest to understand why they "whined, cried, and complained"...otherwise they won't waste their time joining a Classic Shard. They will stay right where they are, and consider this entire discussion a "waste of resources". Because that is exactly what happened when they got a chance to go to Trammel. Get it?

Well, according to this poll http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=185375 I wouldnt be playing with, as you put it, a half dozen of my closest PvP friends, I would be playing with 108 other players who prefer a pre-trammel, open PvP experience. Now, unless my math is wrong, 108 is significantly more than a half a dozen. And that poll has just started a few days ago. Give it more time, that number will go up.

Second, the current servers are populated with item addled instant gratification mainstreamers and gold farmers. Classic servers would be niche. Of course they wouldnt want to play a classic server. It lacks the item crack the item slaves are addicted to and because of the open PvP, gold farmers would be hunted by everyone and driven from the server. The server would be the better off if the AOS players stayed right where they are.

A classic server would attract old school players.

Thirdly, I understand why they whined, cried, and complained, they couldnt handle the PvP. They didnt want to adapt. They wanted things their way and didnt care about the players who were already enjoying the game or how their actions would affect them.

So, infact, they are behaving just as you claim reds did. No, wait, sorry, they were behaving worse because those who were trying to change the entire game to suit their wants.

 

[Longest Journey]

So you would consider Tokuno to be a part of Britannia by that token? And Trammel, and Fel, and Ilshenar, and even Malas?

They all exist in the world of Sosaria...but according to the original map, they were not part of the continent of Britannia...same as the Lost Lands.

Okay, Ill say this one last time. Players want T2A, the Second Age, and everything that came with it.

 

[Tanivar]

http://www.petitiononline.com/bbuo/petition.html

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/...offered-preAOS-servers-would-you-go-back.html

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/...1/Honestly-its-time-for-a-classic-server.html


http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=113856751&highlight=ultima+online

Yes Devs! Kick back and read these and take notes! Particularly on the 4th link. They pretty much tell why you had to make Tram.

You can set up a Classic Shard for them they will come back to, get bored out of their minds because there is no one but the weaker PKers to do what they say they loved doing to other players, and then go back where they came from because they don't have enough other players to do what they say they loved doing to.

After they have come & gone, throw the tram ruleset on the Classic Shard and make many of the loyal paying customers who hate AOS happy, and many of those who posted at the links above who posted AOS as why they left, happy as well if they return.

I'm to amused by this to be ticked any more. Made for a great start to my day.

 

[Konge]

Path A is the path of a true mature gamer.

Path B is the path of immaturity and childishness. This is the path that ruined UO.

Now, if memory serves, Path A, the, fel only path you seem to think they should have taken would have failed.

The reason why tram was invented was because the "Path A" people weren't mature. Exploits, griefing, abusing the notoraty system. The idea is appealing, yes, but saying that one way is mature or not really isn't true. In fact, you contradict yourself, "the mature gamer adapts" Path A isn't adapting, Path A is no change and leaving people to be mass murdered and essentially griefed without restraint (originally).

Path B was corrections taken (originally) to stop Path A "abusers" which eventually lead to Tram. (too extreme in my opinion) The less risk was then rewarded with changing gameplay, AoS. So if a mature gamer adapts and doesn't complain, you wouldn't be asking for a classic shard or complaining that AoS ruined your beloved UO.

Now I didn't read everything before this, but this stood out to me. If anyone considers this a troll just PM me what you find offensive and I'll edit it out. I don't want to cause this thread to be locked due to someone thinking this is an attack, which this isn't. If I see a flaw in someones point, I'll point it out.

 

[Tanivar]

Now I didn't read everything before this, but this stood out to me. If anyone considers this a troll just PM me what you find offensive and I'll edit it out. I don't want to cause this thread to be locked due to someone thinking this is an attack, which this isn't. If I see a flaw in someones point, I'll point it out.

I think you can argue for or against any aspect of this discussion you want to, as long as you don't start ripping on or insulting the poster of whatever your commenting on.

Shredding an arguement is o.k. as long as you don't shred the poster as well.

Am I right on this Petra?

 

[Petra Fyde]

Yes, you are exactly right

 

[Lord Chaos]

Just as a side question to this discussion...what about the location of this server?

Should it be in the US, in Europe or should there be 2 servers with classic rules, one in both places?

 

[Tanivar]

Just as a side question to this discussion...what about the location of this server?

Should it be in the US, in Europe or should there be 2 servers with classic rules, one in both places?

I just brought up the CC and checked the shard latency list. The European & Asian shards are close to double the latency of the American shards to my location in America. There would have to be at least two to avoid lag problems for some of the players. PvM wouldn't be real bad, but PvP & PK sure would be.

Another point to consider in this discussion.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

The reason why tram was invented was because the "Path A" people weren't mature. Exploits, griefing, abusing the notoraty system. The idea is appealing, yes, but saying that one way is mature or not really isn't true. In fact, you contradict yourself, "the mature gamer adapts" Path A isn't adapting, Path A is no change and leaving people to be mass murdered and essentially griefed without restraint (originally).

I agree with this 100%. It's good to see that someone posting here can think in terms of cause vs. effect. The PKs would not show any restraint, so the devs tried numerous things to curtail their behavior, when those things didn't work, they introduced Trammel. Too soon in my opinion. There were other things they did not try, but had publicly discussed, that would have been worth implementing in my opinion.

Path B was corrections taken (originally) to stop Path A "abusers" which eventually lead to Tram. (too extreme in my opinion) The less risk was then rewarded with changing gameplay, AoS. So if a mature gamer adapts and doesn't complain, you wouldn't be asking for a classic shard or complaining that AoS ruined your beloved UO.

This I don't agree with 100%. AoS really was the result of a EA trying to compete with newer games. They had lost what made UO unique (the open PvP aspect) and had to try to find a way to make UO more like modern MMOs. Personally, I think they failed.

I know a few players from the Classic period (1997-2001)...a couple of them play WoW and are always trying to get me to switch. They tell all about game mechanics, and then when I tell them...well, they added that to UO just after you quit...they are sort of confused because they had no idea that UO had changed that much. And, for that type of player, what I like to call the A+B=C gamer, I am sure that AoS would have been a nice addition.

What do I mean by A+B=C? Well, that type of game play involves starting on a pre-determined path...usually a level based and class based (or something closely resembling class based like we have in UO now) system. You start at point A, and work your way up to point B so that you can acquire C. Then you just repeat that until you have ascended to the top and have the highest level of whatever C is in the game for you. Then you get horribly bored and either start all over with a different character, or you find a new game.

Besides the community and the immersion of Classic UO, it was the true sandbox nature of it that was it's greatest asset. I think any classic player, Tram or Fel not withstanding, can agree on that. It was the lack of the A+B=C structure that made UO such a robust game that never got old.

My main, Morgana LeFay, was created on the 1st day Atlantic was live at about 3:30pm EST. She has never been deleted. But she has been a tamer, a mage, a swordswoman, an archer, a tailor, a cook, and even a fisher briefly.

What other game can claim that? To me, that openness is what made (and to a lesser extent makes) UO the greatest game ever invented.

 

[Llamfia]

Yes Devs! Kick back and read these and take notes! Particularly on the 4th link. They pretty much tell why you had to make Tram.

You can set up a Classic Shard for them they will come back to, get bored out of their minds because there is no one but the weaker PKers to do what they say they loved doing to other players, and then go back where they came from because they don't have enough other players to do what they say they loved doing to.

After they have come & gone, throw the tram ruleset on the Classic Shard and make many of the loyal paying customers who hate AOS happy, and many of those who posted at the links above who posted AOS as why they left, happy as well if they return.

I'm to amused by this to be ticked any more. Made for a great start to my day.

Dude, keep playing on your current shard, no one needs you on any other server, if you get pked , you stay closer to town, you bring buddies, its what made UO so fascinating , you can go out and cut wood, but at the cost of getting PKed, PKing made everyone more aware of there surroundings, you just don't get it do you buddy?

Not everyone went RED, in the Stormreaver Orcs on Atlantic it was forbidden to go red, as was many RP guilds, which made a huge population on most servers. I would say only 7-10% of the population was red back when I played.

 

[canary]

Dude, keep playing on your current shard, no one needs you on any other server, if you get pked , you stay closer to town, you bring buddies, its what made UO so fascinating , you can go out and cut wood, but at the cost of getting PKed, PKing made everyone more aware of there surroundings, you just don't get it do you buddy?

Actually I think it is you who doesn't 'get it'... buddy. rolleyes:

There were SERIOUS changes in the game mechanics DUE to people 'pk'ing' that was a result of many LEAVING the game. BTW, UO had its most subscribers during AoS, a time DURING Trammel.

If you want a Classic Shard, the Dev team is going to have to think long and hard about how to make it work instead of it burning itself out in three months. If they do not realize why we had to make changes in the first place the server is due to fail.

As far as ALL those players who will flock back to UO...? Many/ most play the game for FREE right now, what's going to be incentive to come back (and pay monthly) for this?

 

[Surgeries]

Yes Devs! Kick back and read these and take notes! Particularly on the 4th link. They pretty much tell why you had to make Tram.

You can set up a Classic Shard for them they will come back to, get bored out of their minds because there is no one but the weaker PKers to do what they say they loved doing to other players, and then go back where they came from because they don't have enough other players to do what they say they loved doing to.

After they have come & gone, throw the tram ruleset on the Classic Shard and make many of the loyal paying customers who hate AOS happy, and many of those who posted at the links above who posted AOS as why they left, happy as well if they return.

I'm to amused by this to be ticked any more. Made for a great start to my day.

Dude, keep playing on your current shard, no one needs you on any other server, if you get pked , you stay closer to town, you bring buddies, its what made UO so fascinating , you can go out and cut wood, but at the cost of getting PKed, PKing made everyone more aware of there surroundings, you just don't get it do you buddy?

Not everyone went RED, in the Stormreaver Orcs on Atlantic it was forbidden to go red, as was many RP guilds, which made a huge population on most servers. I would say only 7-10% of the population was red back when I played.

Yup...sounds like fun!! I can see the box now!!

"Come Back & Play "Classic" UO!!

The newer shinier games make you group up to go fight big bad Boss Monsters...Classic UO will have you linking up with buddies so you can chop wood and mine!!

Live the dream!! Get your buddies to play, so you have a fighting chance on your crafter!! What a Great Game!!

If this model was the huge, huge draw that all of the proponents say it is...why in the world has no one really followed suit, and created nothing but unfettered open PvP action like this, with exceptionally few exceptions to note? Can all of the "For Profit" companies have just overlooked this amazingly exciting and compelling concept in MMORPGs after all these years? Really?

Maybe they have. Maybe this IS the Next Big Thing that will have our servers waiting in queues to log in and experience the thrill of it all.

I guess, as has been said before...time will tell.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Dude, keep playing on your current shard, no one needs you on any other server

Comments like this one are indicative of the attitude of red players that caused Tram to be forced upon us.

You need to understand that now that there are alternatives to being victimized, the only people you will have on a Classic Shard that caters to this attitude is a handful of PvPers. Why bother with it? Why don't you just stay on your current shard in Fel??

Oh, I know why...cause its empty.

 

[Llamfia]

Comments like this one are indicative of the attitude of red players that caused Tram to be forced upon us.

You need to understand that now that there are alternatives to being victimized, the only people you will have on a Classic Shard that caters to this attitude is a handful of PvPers. Why bother with it? Why don't you just stay on your current shard in Fel??

Oh, I know why...cause its empty.

I don't understand your postion, you want a classic shard with a trammel? But you have trammel now, so whats the point of opening a server when there is already servers with trammel/fel.


To Surgeries

The game has gone to crap, it all started with the carebears wanting trammel. First you had to have a stone to switch facets, then they changed the Gates which used to be random, which was exciting, then they made the gates where you could select where you wanted to go( took the randomness, scary part out of switching towns) It was a slippery slope, first you get trammel,then you get powerscrolls, then you get runics, then you get different colored horses, differnt colored weapons, reds running through towns, blessing items. You tell me that those items and changes helped UO?

That is not Ultima Online, and was not Richard Garriots goal when he opened the world of UO.

But posts like this would have been locked / banned / deleted over the years for even mentioning anything against EA and what it has done, just let us have our server, you have yours with all those shiney mounts and powerscrolls, blessed items, believe me NO one wants that on this server, trammel included.

Why do you think people really call the classic days of UO, the golden age? You are so delusional man.(no hate)

 

[Surgeries]

I don't understand your postion, you want a classic shard with a trammel? But you have trammel now, so whats the point of opening a server when there is already servers with trammel/fel.


To Surgeries

The game has gone to crap, it all started with the carebears wanting trammel. First you had to have a stone to switch facets, then they changed the Gates which used to be random, which was exciting, then they made the gates where you could select where you wanted to go( took the randomness, scary part out of switching towns) It was a slippery slope, first you get trammel,then you get powerscrolls, then you get runics, then you get different colored horses, differnt colored weapons, reds running through towns, blessing items. You tell me that those items and changes helped UO?

That is not Ultima Online, and was not Richard Garriots goal when he opened the world of UO.

But posts like this would have been locked / banned / deleted over the years for even mentioning anything against EA and what it has done, just let us have our server, you have yours with all those shiney mounts and powerscrolls, blessed items, believe me NO one wants that on this server, trammel included.

Why do you think people really call the classic days of UO, the golden age? You are so delusional man.(no hate)

Right. No hate. Just name calling. No sweat.

So...back to the carefully avoided question, then...

Why isn't there a shining example of this which you state is "Da Shiz-Nit", other than UO a dozen years ago, when it was the only game in town? Why isn't there really any high subscriber count MMORPG, with notably and exceptionally few exceptions, that allows what UO allowed, before the Devs and everyone else figured out that exceptionally few folks will pay to be whacked by other players against their will and without warning...?

Why is that? You would think with a dozen years to perfect the model, that Someone...Anyone...(other than PRS of course, that are Free...no charge...no actual "Customers" or "Shareholders")...that someone would have come to market with this ingenious and amazingly popular concept. Right? I would think so...after all...look how many people come here and proclaim that they and 1,000 poof their friends are waiting, money in hand, to play this particular game, if EA would just make it so...right?

That being said...why is there no lasting, popular example of the Classic UO, in any form that can charge for it...?

Please answer that one, and we will get a long way down the road to "Civil Debate".

 

[Guido_LS]

I don't understand your postion, you want a classic shard with a trammel? But you have trammel now, so whats the point of opening a server when there is already servers with trammel/fel.

Reading comprehension FTW - Morganna, and many others, including myself, have stated we don't want a Trammel facet - we want a pre-AoS facet with serious controls, checks and balances as they concern the PK's.


And calling people carebears and delusional (no hate) will go far in getting those *standing in your way* to even remotely begin to pay attention to your point of view. Want respect, give respect. Discuss what is being proposed, other than your blinders, FFA gankfest that you so desperately seem to want. In case you hadn't noticed, that model, as a PAID FOR commodity, FAILED. I don't care what they do on free servers - they don't pay for it. And I, for one, will neither pay for it now, nor will I pay for the development of such a failed anomaly.

 

[canary]

I don't understand your postion, you want a classic shard with a trammel? But you have trammel now, so whats the point of opening a server when there is already servers with trammel/fel.

OK... since you still don't 'get it'... a classic shard is MUCH more than just a pvp/pk playground.

To look at a counter point to your point: What is the point of a classic server if you have Fel now?

Potentially, a Classic Shard could be about team work, the removal of item based reliance, power scrolls, repair deeds, etc. In other words... A CLASSIC SHARD IS, SHOCKINGLY, NOT JUST ABOUT YOU. There was more to pre pub 16 UO and pre - Tram than JUST fighting. Sheesh.

Others are stating that there were reasons things like Tram were put into place, and where we can go on a classic server to ensure we don't repeat the same mistakes we already have endured. You want to put things into place to ensure the greatest number of people are enjoying an experience and that it is viable. If you really think that a shard full of (what will probably only be) pk'ers will be an experience most will want to participate for any length of time you are, imo, deluded.

 

[Kaleb]

As far as ALL those players who will flock back to UO...? Many/ most play the game for FREE right now, what's going to be incentive to come back (and pay monthly) for this?

Server stability, GM's who are not corrupt the list can go on and on, I pay for 2 accounts, but I still play a free server due to the fact they offer what EA/Mythic cant. The Devs I am sure know about these servers and have logged into them, Ideas have made it into game where they were first on free servers. I am sure they see a demand as stated before about the sheer numbers of people who play that server type(Fel only pre Aos items/combat/skills).

 

[canary]

That is not Ultima Online, and was not Richard Garriots goal when he opened the world of UO.

Neither was rampant thievery and pk'ing. It was just an unintended side effect from there not being a proper system in place to keep such behavior in check. If you think otherwise, you obviously don't know your UO history.

 

[Ozymandies]

I think that the point of a classic shard is to enjoy the old pre-AoS combat system and has little to do with the PvP vs PvM debate. I think the concept of forcing people to play in a ruleset they don't like is long discredited.

My personal preference would be for an even distribution of PvP and PvM facets, whichever facets are used. I would prefer a big shard with all the facets and alot of people rather than more than one shard with only a few facets and the players separated. I am not sure how to gauge the demand, though. A big shard with few players is not good, either.

But for example, PvP could be in Fel, Ilshenar and Tokuno facets, while PvM in Trammel, Malas and most of SA.

Just Trammel/Fel with T2A is too small, imo. Pre-ren Brit/t2a with all PvP would not interest me. However, I think the current prodo setup with only one PvP facet is lame. I would aim for half and half.

The older game had much slower skill gains, too. At one point skills deteriorated if you did not use them. This stopped with Ren, I think. This forced people to macro to be competitive. On current prodo shards, though, it seems too easy. Somewhere in between I would vote for.

I would say no to insurance.

Start with 100gp, mongbats have no loot. Ettins have 25gp.

Some people want the classic mage combat without the necro / SW/ Chiv and other additions. I can see this and would be okay with it. I assume pre-AoS means the old resist spells and AR system. It would be more work to update all the various spell systems to this, anyway.

Things I remember from pub 15:
Compassion quests. These were new for pub15, I think. No one has discussed whether they would prefer the various virtue systems on or off. I could live with them.

Recalling into Fel dungeons and T2A. I think this was turned off with pub16.

Random specials per melee weapon-type. This was LBR-ish.

Good vs Evil system was on Siege (only?). Can't remember, but I know I used it a little. Played on Siege around LBR. Gave up PvP with AoS, couldn't keep up with the item chase.

Moongates based on the phases of the moons. Cool!

Runebooks? Hmmm, no.

These are just my opinions and one vote among many.

Have a nice day!

OZ

 

[Kaleb]

But for example, PvP could be in Fel, Ilshenar and Tokuno facets, while PvM in Trammel, Malas and most of SA.

I could live with that but delete trammel 2 lands with the same dungeons is not a cool idea and never has been, make tok the new trammel.

Just Trammel/Fel with T2A is too small, imo. Pre-ren Brit/t2a with all PvP would not interest me. However, I think the current prodo setup with only one PvP facet is lame. I would aim for half and half.

I agree 100% If a split of the playstyles(NOT PvP vs PVM but Trammie vs Felucian) was not at all possible then a 50/50 split is what should have been done.

I would say no to insurance.

yes

Start with 100gp, mongbats have no loot. Ettins have 25gp.

Yes, but I would say no X-fers except from like shard's, Mongbats should give at least 5gp, ehh I wouldn't mind the UO:R Loot values.

Some people want the classic mage combat without the necro / SW/ Chiv and other additions. I can see this and would be okay with it. I assume pre-AoS means the old resist spells and AR system. It would be more work to update all the various spell systems to this, anyway.

Would be a lot of work, But necro has been on the table since launch-t2a and was something the original devs saw as a viable skill thats where the oldschool necro reg rares for the most part came from.

Things I remember from pub 15:
Compassion quests. These were new for pub15, I think. No one has discussed whether they would prefer the various virtue systems on or off. I could live with them.

Having all the virtues finished and able to do something is always great.!

Recalling into Fel dungeons and T2A. I think this was turned off with pub16.

Would not be needed, being able to recall into t2a was a bug in the first place, recalling into dungeons was turned off for champspawns, Though I would not appose Champspawns remaining in T2A that do not give PS just gold and Loot = to the critter killed or the boss.

Random specials per melee weapon-type. This was LBR-ish.

yes

Good vs Evil system was on Siege (only?). Can't remember, but I know I used it a little. Played on Siege around LBR. Gave up PvP with AoS, couldn't keep up with the item chase.

Naa, Factions, Chaos/Order, RED's vs Blues,Guildwars would be enough

Moongates based on the phases of the moons. Cool!

Although it was a cool system the wait took away from gameplay I dont think it is a needed system.

Runebooks? Hmmm, no.

I would say No to this too, Not allow reds/murderers use of the blessed property of spell rune books(anyother blessed/newbie item for that matter) as a drawback to being a murderer.

Have a nice day!

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

I don't understand your postion, you want a classic shard with a trammel? But you have trammel now, so whats the point of opening a server when there is already servers with trammel/fel.

Did you bother to actually read any of the posts in this thread...

Originally Posted by Morgana LeFay (PoV):
Even though I said I would not participate in this discussion, I feel it necessary to clarify some things I have posted here in this thread because some of the things I have said, and ideas I have presented, are being purposefully misrepresented. I am not offering anything new to do the discussion with these remarks:

1 - I am totally against a Classic Shard that includes Trammel in any form. If there will be a Trammel option, either on a seperate server, or via facets, then it is my opinion that a Classic Shard will fail in the long term because players will become bored.

The game has gone to crap, it all started with the carebears wanting trammel. First you had to have a stone to switch facets, then they changed the Gates which used to be random, which was exciting, then they made the gates where you could select where you wanted to go( took the randomness, scary part out of switching towns) It was a slippery slope, first you get trammel,then you get powerscrolls, then you get runics, then you get different colored horses, differnt colored weapons, reds running through towns, blessing items. You tell me that those items and changes helped UO?

I agree with everything you just said, except that it was "carebears" wanting Trammel that caused it. You are focusing on the result, not the cause. The cause was reds that wouldn't show any self control, which then led to the so-called "carebears" quitting the game en mass.

You are so delusional man.(no hate)

Has anyone else noticed that it is always someone advocating for full-on, no limits, PvP only that results to name calling and flaming.? Yet they call the people that want some limits placed on their behavior "immature"...it says a great deal about what happened in the past, and why it happened.

This thread has truly shown me how wrong I was about the UO community back in the days. I have labored under the delusion that given a second chance that these people would be different, and might have learned something, for years...but it appears I was totally wrong.

 

[Cardell]

But for example, PvP could be in Fel, Ilshenar and Tokuno facets, while PvM in Trammel, Malas and most of SA.

Just Trammel/Fel with T2A is too small, imo. Pre-ren Brit/t2a with all PvP would not interest me. However, I think the current prodo setup with only one PvP facet is lame. I would aim for half and half.

All of the lands together are too big for such a small populations. You seem to be overlooking the fact that every single shard is under populated.. not because the amount of people but because there is way tooo much space...

I know some people like to do there own thing and not be bothered but it should be impossible to NEVER run into someone eventually.... Currently.. you go DAYS with out seeing ppl.. Thats ****ing ridiculous.. It goes against the whole god damn concept of MMO...

There should be no tram/fel... period.. There should be britiannia and thats it.. **** t2a, **** ilsh, **** the other garbage... if ppl want quests and **** the devs should make them in britiannia to make the old lands more juicy... Making new lands only displaces the community... which is COMPLETELY counter productive in every single way of an MMO.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

But for example, PvP could be in Fel, Ilshenar and Tokuno facets, while PvM in Trammel, Malas and most of SA.

Just Trammel/Fel with T2A is too small, imo. Pre-ren Brit/t2a with all PvP would not interest me. However, I think the current prodo setup with only one PvP facet is lame. I would aim for half and half.

What you are describing is something other than a Classic Shard. No offense, and I agree with you on most of what you are saying here, but this type of shard would fall well outside what most people, and I would dare say that includes the devs, would consider to be "Classic".

I do think that the idea of a 50/50 split, if it had been done when Ren launched, would have been more preferable to what we have now...I just think that instead of 20% of the world being dead empty all the time like it is now, 50% would be dead empty all the time.

The truth of the matter is, the majority of current UO players have little interest in PvP for whatever reason. That wasn't always the case, but too much has changed for things to go 50/50 now.

 

[georgemarvin2001]

Let's tell the truth here. From EA's perspective, Trammel didn't ruin the game. The day it was introduced, UO had 185,000 subscribers, according to the EA press release. They had a habit of releasing subscription numbers every few months back then, and 3 months before AoS was released, subscriptions were "over 250,000". That means that UO actually picked up more players after Trammel was introduced. They were still holding steady at 250,000 at the time of the press release 2 weeks after the release of AoS. The next time that the numbers was released was several months later, and subscriptions were down to just 175,000. This was attributed to competition from DaoC and FF. There were several other reasons given as the lead designer left for a junior position in the yet-to-be-released WoW.

However, the fact is that, while competition, not the crappy AOS got the blame for the decline in subscription post-AOS, both DaoC and FF were released years before AoS, and neither had negatively impacted UO's subscription numbers in the months before the release of AoS.

Unfortunately, instead of saying "we screwed up royally. People in all the forums are calling AoS the Age of (censored). It's almost universally hated. Let's revert to the old, successful combat and item formulas" , Stratics banned people from even mentioning a return to the old, successful model. All of the Devs scrambled to cover their *censored* and blame the massive drop in subscriptions on everything but AOS; anybody who had admitted that he screwed up would have been "thrown under the bus".

The fact is that PK'ing did go out of control, but the fact is that it was because all of the penalties for murdering other players were eliminated by that same Dev crew that brought us the crazy item system, wrecked skills, wrecked crafting, etc.; nobody was going to admit that when they removed all of the penalties for PK'ing, it was an open invitation for PK'ers to abuse the rest of the population to the point of frustration, any more than they were willing to admit that the "coincidence" that subscription numbers plummeted by 1/3 immediately after AOS was released might have anything to do with the fact that most of the player base HATED AoS.

You would think that, when EA saw that the AOS Dev crew had managed to lose over 1/3 of their player base after AOS was released, and it was shedding more players every week, it wouldn't have just been the head designer who left. Most companies would have fired everybody down to the janitor and reverted to the old system before it was too late. Instead, EA stuck by AoS until the player base has now shrunk to about 75,000.

The truth is that today, there are still over a half-million people playing UO. It is one of the most popular of all of the online games. They just aren't playing on our official OSI shards. Only a few thousand of them outside our official OSI version of UO are playing on shards with post-AOS rulesets, even though the post-AOS free shards are just as free as the pre-AOS ruleset ones. Among players who can choose between rulesets, pre-AOS shards have many times as many players as post-AOS ruleset ones, even though they can play either ruleset for the same lack of price. It would only take 1% of the people playing on the pre-AOS free shards to return to the official OSI servers for a classic shard to be successful. If they could convince 10% of them to return, it would almost double the 75,000 or so of us who are still playing the official game.

All online games have a few players who are on free shards. WoW has several thousand players on free shards, as opposed to the millions of paid subscribers on the official servers. All of the rest of the online games have small populations who play on free shards, mostly because they can't afford to play on the more reliable production shards, which also have new content, less lag and better servers. In most cases, the number of players on free shards is just a small fraction of the playerbase on the official shards. Only UO has about SEVEN TIMES as many players on free shards as on the official game servers, and those servers have larger player capacity, more new content and events, and less lag and bugs than the ones used by the official game. I was also a little dismayed to find that one of those free servers is advertising for 8 new staff members while EA is downsizing. You would think some executive at EA would figure out why UO is the only game that is thriving, while the official servers that should be making them a profit are practically empty. Unfortunately, that lack of executive supervision over what should be a highly profitable game with a large, extremely loyal player base pretty much illustrates why EA lost over $600 million dollars last year.

If I was in charge of UO, I would first add one T2A shard, one Felucca-only Pub 15/16 shard, pre-power scrolls, with the pre-AoS ruleset, but all of the lands, custom housing, plants, etc. that players like in the current game, and a pub-15/16 era shard with Trammel. I don't think anybody really wants power scrolls in a classic shard. My poll showed that, of all of the people who wanted the pub 15/16 era in one form or another, only 3 of them wanted the power scrolls included. And Petra's poll doesn't break that era down ito separate the several major revisions done by the AOS crew before the actual introduction of AoS.

As part of the deal, I would make it clear that all 3 shards would be considered "test centers" for 3 months. If the population was below a threshold of 5,000 players per shard, substantially more than the average number of players on most production shards, it could be wiped at any time. If the population stayed much higher than production shard levels, it would remain open. If population reached 10,000, which is about 3 times the average population of a production shard, then I would make it permanent and maybe even convert one of the practically empty prodo shards into a classic ruleset. If it was above prodo shard levels, but not a raging success, it would be reviewed again after another 3 months. In the meantime, players could set up houses without them affecting their prodo-shard houses, just like on a regular test shard, with the knowledge that the house, and the whole shard, for that matter, could be deleted at any time if it didn't reach the population goals. If the classic shards survived, those houses would follow the old rules: They would have to be manually refreshed every 3 weeks, or they would go IDOC and collapse.

If I'm right, people would come and check out all three classic shards, but the pub 15/16 era fel-only shard would be where most of them would stay, maybe to the point that players on some of the deserted shards might need to begin preparing for the rule change to classic. The T2A shard would probably have enough players to survive as a single shard. But the pre-AoS with trammel probably wouldn't make it past the first 3-month review.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Bravo!!

I love your idea of having 3 different test shards! It would settle pretty much all debate as to which 'Classic Era' would work the best. If EA/Mythic didn't want to run 3 shards at the same time, then perhaps they would consider 1 at a time, for 3 months each, and taking data from that test. Either way, I believe you have found the right solution to this issue.

Let the people decide this time what they want...instead of just handing us Ren and AoS.

Thank you for posting in this thread. Yours is one of the most well thought out, and lucid posts I have seen on the subject.

 

[Longest Journey]

Now, if memory serves, Path A, the, fel only path you seem to think they should have taken would have failed.

There is no way you can say that because there is no proof to back it up. The developers didnt even take the time to try and make it work. All they did was hurry up and make trammel to silence the whiners who didnt like PvP, instead of trying to actually balance things. No, they did what parents do when two of their kids are fighting because one broke the others crayons, shoved them in different rooms and seperated them.

The reason why tram was invented was because the "Path A" people weren't mature. Exploits, griefing, abusing the notoraty system.

Oh, right, the path A people werent mature. Sure they werent. Thats why the path A people learned to deal with the PvP and actually played the game while the path B people incessantly cried to the devs and GMs.

The idea is appealing, yes, but saying that one way is mature or not really isn't true. In fact, you contradict yourself, "the mature gamer adapts" Path A isn't adapting, Path A is no change and leaving people to be mass murdered and essentially griefed without restraint (originally).

Mass murdered my arse! Jeeze, you make it sound like the servers were overrun with PKs and no one could do anything but die. Tone down the exaggerating mellow dramatics and I might take you seriously.

Actually, path A did adapt. And no, Path A wasnt all reds and PKs like you are insinuating, nice try though. There were MANY more blues than there were reds who adapted and kept playing. How did they adapt? They kept up with their PvM playing, but realized that, at some point or another, they would have to deal with a PvPers. They didnt complain, they learned how to fight back and survive.

As for being griefed, that was mostly in the heads of players who couldnt handle the game. News flash people, just because someone killed you, they werent trying to grief you, they were playing the way the game allowed, which was to play as a killer.

The fact that people got all upset over getting killed was them griefing themselves. Its like those lunatics you get in a Halo match who start getting all pissed off when the their team is losing, and start yelling and cursing into their headset. Thats how the people who opposed PvP back then acted, completely immature.

Path B was corrections taken (originally) to stop Path A "abusers" which eventually lead to Tram. (too extreme in my opinion) The less risk was then rewarded with changing gameplay, AoS. So if a mature gamer adapts and doesn't complain, you wouldn't be asking for a classic shard or complaining that AoS ruined your beloved UO.

But unlike those from the past, those of us who want a classic server arent asking for something that is going to completely change the game for everyone. We arent saying "Change all of the AOS servers to suit our tastes". We're saying, "give us a couple of servers set in pre reniassance."

What the anti PvP crowd did 10 years ago was immature because it completely changed things to suit them. It affected everyone. Seperate classic servers, which have been requested for over a decade, affects only those who ask for it.

We did adapt. We adapted for over 10 years and accomodated the non-PvP crowd, and look at what it did to the game. Its in shambles.

Another point, its not just about the PvP why we want a classic server. We cannot tolerate the new systems and item dependency, all of which have made the game practically unplayable, unless youre a ninja/necro/samurai or one of those other abominations which dominate everything. The majority of the skills are gimped, crafting (which was a major draw) is completely useless thanks to artifacts, you need to be 120 in your skills just to be able to kill a goat, and the community has all but disappeared.

Classic server supporters want more than just the PvP. We want our fishermen, blacksmiths, tailors, tresure hunters and tinkerers to mean something again. We want to build warrior characters who dont need to have focus or else their stamina drops like a stone. We want the freedom to be able to build characters with diverse skills without them ending up gimped.

So dont go trying to say those who want a classic server are being immature. All we want is a functional game again, not some overly nerfed hodgepodge mainstream clone.

 

[Llamfia]

Did you bother to actually read any of the posts in this thread...






I agree with everything you just said, except that it was "carebears" wanting Trammel that caused it. You are focusing on the result, not the cause. The cause was reds that wouldn't show any self control, which then led to the so-called "carebears" quitting the game en mass.

Ok but thats why I asked a question, theres so many posts in here and didn't know where you stood.

I think people are over exagerating how bad reds were, i played back when I was around 9 years old, the only time I died was when I was gated to Bucs Den, hoping to find and kill some reds, turned out I got ganked by the people I got gated in by. If you are actually smart, and aware of your surrroundings, theres no reason you should ever get pked, unless you bother not to run or hide.

 

[Longest Journey]

Let's tell the truth here. From EA's perspective, Trammel didn't ruin the game. The day it was introduced, UO had 185,000 subscribers, according to the EA press release. They had a habit of releasing subscription numbers every few months back then, and 3 months before AoS was released, subscriptions were "over 250,000". That means that UO actually picked up more players after Trammel was introduced. They were still holding steady at 250,000 at the time of the press release 2 weeks after the release of AoS. The next time that the numbers was released was several months later, and subscriptions were down to just 175,000. This was attributed to competition from DaoC and FF. There were several other reasons given as the lead designer left for a junior position in the yet-to-be-released WoW.

However, the fact is that, while competition, not the crappy AOS got the blame for the decline in subscription post-AOS, both DaoC and FF were released years before AoS, and neither had negatively impacted UO's subscription numbers in the months before the release of AoS.

Unfortunately, instead of saying "we screwed up royally. People in all the forums are calling AoS the Age of (censored). It's almost universally hated. Let's revert to the old, successful combat and item formulas" , Stratics banned people from even mentioning a return to the old, successful model. All of the Devs scrambled to cover their *censored* and blame the massive drop in subscriptions on everything but AOS; anybody who had admitted that he screwed up would have been "thrown under the bus".

The fact is that PK'ing did go out of control, but the fact is that it was because all of the penalties for murdering other players were eliminated by that same Dev crew that brought us the crazy item system, wrecked skills, wrecked crafting, etc.; nobody was going to admit that when they removed all of the penalties for PK'ing, it was an open invitation for PK'ers to abuse the rest of the population to the point of frustration, any more than they were willing to admit that the "coincidence" that subscription numbers plummeted by 1/3 immediately after AOS was released might have anything to do with the fact that most of the player base HATED AoS.

You would think that, when EA saw that the AOS Dev crew had managed to lose over 1/3 of their player base after AOS was released, and it was shedding more players every week, it wouldn't have just been the head designer who left. Most companies would have fired everybody down to the janitor and reverted to the old system before it was too late. Instead, EA stuck by AoS until the player base has now shrunk to about 75,000.

The truth is that today, there are still over a half-million people playing UO. It is one of the most popular of all of the online games. They just aren't playing on our official OSI shards. Only a few thousand of them outside our official OSI version of UO are playing on shards with post-AOS rulesets, even though the post-AOS free shards are just as free as the pre-AOS ruleset ones. Among players who can choose between rulesets, pre-AOS shards have many times as many players as post-AOS ruleset ones, even though they can play either ruleset for the same lack of price. It would only take 1% of the people playing on the pre-AOS free shards to return to the official OSI servers for a classic shard to be successful. If they could convince 10% of them to return, it would almost double the 75,000 or so of us who are still playing the official game.

All online games have a few players who are on free shards. WoW has several thousand players on free shards, as opposed to the millions of paid subscribers on the official servers. All of the rest of the online games have small populations who play on free shards, mostly because they can't afford to play on the more reliable production shards, which also have new content, less lag and better servers. In most cases, the number of players on free shards is just a small fraction of the playerbase on the official shards. Only UO has about SEVEN TIMES as many players on free shards as on the official game servers, and those servers have larger player capacity, more new content and events, and less lag and bugs than the ones used by the official game. I was also a little dismayed to find that one of those free servers is advertising for 8 new staff members while EA is downsizing. You would think some executive at EA would figure out why UO is the only game that is thriving, while the official servers that should be making them a profit are practically empty. Unfortunately, that lack of executive supervision over what should be a highly profitable game with a large, extremely loyal player base pretty much illustrates why EA lost over $600 million dollars last year.

If I was in charge of UO, I would first add one T2A shard, one Felucca-only Pub 15/16 shard, pre-power scrolls, with the pre-AoS ruleset, but all of the lands, custom housing, plants, etc. that players like in the current game, and a pub-15/16 era shard with Trammel. I don't think anybody really wants power scrolls in a classic shard. My poll showed that, of all of the people who wanted the pub 15/16 era in one form or another, only 3 of them wanted the power scrolls included. And Petra's poll doesn't break that era down ito separate the several major revisions done by the AOS crew before the actual introduction of AoS.

And right there is another major reason why pub 16 shouldnt even be considered, it was worked on by the same people who brought up AOS. No AOS, nothing even remotely close to it should be in a classic server.

Petra's poll is as good as its going to get. It breaks the game down, mostly, to major parts of Classic UO. It mentiones pub 16, and guess what, its only got 27 votes to it, while T2A has a dominating 71.

As part of the deal, I would make it clear that all 3 shards would be considered "test centers" for 3 months. If the population was below a threshold of 5,000 players per shard, substantially more than the average number of players on most production shards, it could be wiped at any time. If the population stayed much higher than production shard levels, it would remain open. If population reached 10,000, which is about 3 times the average population of a production shard, then I would make it permanent and maybe even convert one of the practically empty prodo shards into a classic ruleset. If it was above prodo shard levels, but not a raging success, it would be reviewed again after another 3 months. In the meantime, players could set up houses without them affecting their prodo-shard houses, just like on a regular test shard, with the knowledge that the house, and the whole shard, for that matter, could be deleted at any time if it didn't reach the population goals. If the classic shards survived, those houses would follow the old rules: They would have to be manually refreshed every 3 weeks, or they would go IDOC and collapse.

Wouldnt work.

For one, all those who oppose classic servers would log on all of their alt accounts to that server and complain they didnt like it.

Two, the test servers wouldnt be accurate because of the fact they let players set their skills to GM in a matter of seconds.

Three, a full fledged server would inspire more confidence as it would be a sign of solid commitment by the devs, not some 3 month guessing game as to where their thoughs are. People wouldnt come back just to test and see. People know what they want, they've been saying it for years.

If I'm right, people would come and check out all three classic shards, but the pub 15/16 era fel-only shard would be where most of them would stay, maybe to the point that players on some of the deserted shards might need to begin preparing for the rule change to classic. The T2A shard would probably have enough players to survive as a single shard. But the pre-AoS with trammel probably wouldn't make it past the first 3-month review.

No publish 16. Publish 16 introduced runic crafting tools. With those tools, blacksmithes could make vanq runic weapons and invul armor. It put fishermen and treasure hunters out of business. Not to mention to gave a monopoly on the runic tools to all of those who could bot script the BODs all day. It was unfair and hurt the crafters and tradesmen.

Seriously, you think people will want pub 16 over T2A? Take a look at the poll sometime. Its an eye opener.

http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=185375

 

[canary]

I think people are over exagerating how bad reds were

The only red thing you currently are seeing is via your rose colored glasses, imo.

Yes, imo the red problem was bad. You might 'think' people are over exaggerating, but you'd be wrong. It was a very glaring problem within the game. If it wasn't, Trammel would never have had a reason to exist.

 

[Longest Journey]

Ok but thats why I asked a question, theres so many posts in here and didn't know where you stood.

I think people are over exagerating how bad reds were, i played back when I was around 9 years old, the only time I died was when I was gated to Bucs Den, hoping to find and kill some reds, turned out I got ganked by the people I got gated in by. If you are actually smart, and aware of your surrroundings, theres no reason you should ever get pked, unless you bother not to run or hide.

Wow, really? 9? Youre kidding... you gotta be kidding.

 

[Longest Journey]

The only red thing you currently are seeing is via your rose colored glasses, imo.

Oh boy, here we go again. More of the rose colored glasses nonsense. Anytime anyone speaks positively about the open PvP days, here in flies the Canary with the rose colored glasses tired response.

Seriously, where is a cat when you need one?

No, its more like Llamafia is just speaking from experience. And unless they are crying tales of utter red dominance and, as one person so over dramatically put it, "mass murder", you accuse them of looking at things from some rosey posey point of view.

Yes, imo the red problem was bad. You might 'think' people are over exaggerating, but you'd be wrong. It was a very glaring problem within the game. If it wasn't, Trammel would never have had a reason to exist.

No, the red problem wasnt bad. Trammel exisited for the following 2 reasons:

#1.) People complained, incessantly, to the devs and GMs. Instead of doing something constructive to balance things out, they just slapped trammel together to shut them up.

#2.) EA/OSI wanted to try and cash in on the new "kid friendly no PvP" mainstream hype raised by EQ.

And that, people, is the truth as to why trammel existed. Whiners, weak developers who caved, and the EQ hype.

 

[Tanivar]

I don't understand your postion, you want a classic shard with a trammel? But you have trammel now, so whats the point of opening a server when there is already servers with trammel/fel.

Pay attention.

The Tram/Fel servers are tainted with AOS.

UO Players want a Classic Shard without AOS.

 

[Llamfia]

Wow, really? 9? Youre kidding... you gotta be kidding.

18 now, I played on my brothers account before school, I remember getting PK'ed with shadow armor on and crying my eyes out, getting jumped by orcs in yew, UO is the only game where I actually have vivid memories from, kinda gives you impression that it was a special game.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

If you are actually smart, and aware of your surrroundings, theres no reason you should ever get pked, unless you bother not to run or hide.

Wow. You really didn't play much in the old days, did you?

Here are some memories I will share with you:

- PKs used to gank anyone that crossed the bridge between Trinsic and Britain to the point that no one even used the bridge. At one point, a GM was stationed there all the time to make sure that PKs were not griefing anyone with trash talk. I personally watched at least 10 people get taken to jail by GMs for offensive language involving ****, racism, and sexism...just at that one spot, in one day.

- A group called the Trinsic Borrowers which at the time consisted of Lice, Scar, and some other players who's names don't come to me at the moment used to steal from pretty much anyone on the ground at Trinsic bank one at a time, and then gank the person that followed them out of the front gates of the city with odds more like 5 to 1. I personally killed them on several occassions, and died to them as well.

- Covetous Crew (a PK guild named after a dungeon) would pretty much kill anyone in the rocky maze that led into that dungeon...and a favorite tactic, before it was rightly nerfed, was to wait for a screen full of people to show up, and have a hidden mage cast earthquake, which at the time was instant to death to EVERYONE on the screen except the caster.

- AoD (Army of Darkness) would routinely seal off the orc fort near Cover with a minimum of 20 reds, killing anyone and everyone that was not an AoD member that was inside or approached the orc fort. PoV fought them there many, many times.

- PKs would hide in the water elemental room in Covetous, and wait until players there would reach almost half HP, then attack that player 3-1. That is, unless CC found them first.

- The moongate around the back entrance to Trinsic was more or less unusable if you had less than 10 people with you due to Vader's and Dr. Deth's gank squads.

- The crossroads were pretty unusable by anyone...ever.

- Wrong was a PK haven, often, PK thieves would steal the reagents out of a person's pack and then attack them. This was a favorite tactic by some PK groups that frequented there.

- The woods near Yew were pretty much unusable to anyone due to Zodiac and his gank squad.

- PKs in Deceit used a great tactic of energy fielding players in with the Poison Ele there.

Just because YOU didn't experience it, didn't mean it didn't happen.

My guild specialized in finding, killing, and looting PKs. I can tell you, it was a full time job. There were more PKs than most people are willing to admit, at least on Atlantic.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Wouldnt work.

For one, all those who oppose classic servers would log on all of their alt accounts to that server and complain they didnt like it.

Two, the test servers wouldnt be accurate because of the fact they let players set their skills to GM in a matter of seconds.

Three, a full fledged server would inspire more confidence as it would be a sign of solid commitment by the devs, not some 3 month guessing game as to where their thoughs are. People wouldnt come back just to test and see. People know what they want, they've been saying it for years.

First, I don't think I saw him suggest that these test shards should behave the exact same as test center.

Secondly, if you are so confident that open, no holds barred, no limits PvP would be so popular, why the aversion to putting it to the test?

Oh, wait, I know...cause that tried that already and we got Trammel as the result.

But you and I agree...nothing from Pub 16 should be included in a Classic Shard, that is for damned sure.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

#1.) People complained, incessantly, to the devs and GMs. Instead of doing something constructive to balance things out, they just slapped trammel together to shut them up.

#2.) EA/OSI wanted to try and cash in on the new "kid friendly no PvP" mainstream hype raised by EQ.

And that, people, is the truth as to why trammel existed. Whiners, weak developers who caved, and the EQ hype.

Actually, you are half right here. The devs made a mistake with Trammel, but it wasn't people whining that made them do it...

...It was people quitting because reds refused to acknowledge that other people didn't want to participate in PvP.

 

[Tanivar]

If I'm right, people would come and check out all three classic shards, but the pub 15/16 era fel-only shard would be where most of them would stay, maybe to the point that players on some of the deserted shards might need to begin preparing for the rule change to classic. The T2A shard would probably have enough players to survive as a single shard. But the pre-AoS with trammel probably wouldn't make it past the first 3-month review.

I was thinking good thoughts about your post right up to this last paragraph.

Are you pulling our legs? rolleyes:

A pub 15/16 Fel shard would die quickly. Read the entire thread here and the posts in the four threads linked to in post #202. It would be a PKfest with the weakest players leaving because being PKed endlessly gets old. There would be a steady decline in players.

Same with the T2A shard. It would be dieing faster than the pre-Ren UO was dieing due to the same cause. A terminal PKer infestation.

The pre-AOS Trammel would probably do better than any other shard. It would be drawing players who don't like the AOS taint from all the other shards. The Tram facets on the other shards would only keep the item fans.

 

[Llamfia]

Wow. You really didn't play much in the old days, did you?

Here are some memories I will share with you:

- PKs used to gank anyone that crossed the bridge between Trinsic and Britain to the point that no one even used the bridge. At one point, a GM was stationed there all the time to make sure that PKs were not griefing anyone with trash talk. I personally watched at least 10 people get taken to jail by GMs for offensive language involving ****, racism, and sexism...just at that one spot, in one day.

- A group called the Trinsic Borrowers which at the time consisted of Lice, Scar, and some other players who's names don't come to me at the moment used to steal from pretty much anyone on the ground at Trinsic bank one at a time, and then gank the person that followed them out of the front gates of the city with odds more like 5 to 1. I personally killed them on several occassions, and died to them as well.

- Covetous Crew (a PK guild named after a dungeon) would pretty much kill anyone in the rocky maze that led into that dungeon...and a favorite tactic, before it was rightly nerfed, was to wait for a screen full of people to show up, and have a hidden mage cast earthquake, which at the time was instant to death to EVERYONE on the screen except the caster.

- AoD (Army of Darkness) would routinely seal off the orc fort near Cover with a minimum of 20 reds, killing anyone and everyone that was not an AoD member that was inside or approached the orc fort. PoV fought them there many, many times.

- PKs would hide in the water elemental room in Covetous, and wait until players there would reach almost half HP, then attack that player 3-1. That is, unless CC found them first.

- The moongate around the back entrance to Trinsic was more or less unusable if you had less than 10 people with you due to Vader's and Dr. Deth's gank squads.

- The crossroads were pretty unusable by anyone...ever.

- Wrong was a PK haven, often, PK thieves would steal the reagents out of a person's pack and then attack them. This was a favorite tactic by some PK groups that frequented there.

- The woods near Yew were pretty much unusable to anyone due to Zodiac and his gank squad.

- PKs in Deceit used a great tactic of energy fielding players in with the Poison Ele there.

Just because YOU didn't experience it, didn't mean it didn't happen.

My guild specialized in finding, killing, and looting PKs. I can tell you, it was a full time job. There were more PKs than most people are willing to admit, at least on Atlantic.

Well with anything involved such as going to a dugeon for reward there should also be a risk, I remember hunting Stone Golems or whatever near the Orc fort without any problem because there were so many Blues, that any Red would get destroyed if they even stepped into the dugeon, if you have numbers it would be fine, if you talk to anyone that used to play UO, they would talk about how fun the game was and how exhilarting it was, not how unfair it was because the Pkers would always kill them. The people that complained about Pkers are the ones still playing UO, or the joke of UO that exhists. And it is a complete joke

 

[canary]

18 now, I played on my brothers account before school, I remember getting PK'ed with shadow armor on and crying my eyes out, getting jumped by orcs in yew, UO is the only game where I actually have vivid memories from, kinda gives you impression that it was a special game.

Interesting, seeing as 9 years ago there WAS a Tram.

UO:R came out in 2000. Which means your post about knowing what it was like 'back in the day' is moot. Nice try.

 

[canary]

...It was people quitting because reds refused to acknowledge that other people didn't want to participate in PvP.

Amazing! Because, as we can plainly see on this very thread, it is still going on.