Classic shard.

[Longest Journey]

The pro fel crowd isnt going to budge,

The pro tram side isnt going to budge,

The polls atm are showing about 70% fel 30% tram

Make two shards, you'll find out which is more successful and hopefully when the tram crowd realizes how boring the tram only ruleset gets on their shard they will come and help populate the fel shard for a bit of a challenge, rather than just quitting the classic shard idea and going back to prodo shards. The fel shard will still get populated regardless cos most of the people who have been showing interest coming back to the game if the classic shard is made seem to want fel only.

They dont need to make a trammel only shard to see the results. You want to see the success of trammel? Look at all of the other servers. Theres your evidence right there.

Also, considering that the poll is showing 70% in favor of a T2A only style setting, then the majority consensus has spoken. The classic server supporters want T2A. They want it to be just Britannia.

 

[Longest Journey]

Not at all. Quite the opposite in fact. I just thought that there should have been less incentive to PK, and more incentive actually get involved in the community rather than engaging in anti-social behavior aimed at ruining someone else's game experience.

How was being a PK anit-social? What, because they didnt want to sit around, sip tea and chat? They had their people they hung with and they socialized with people who shared their play style. Just because they werent playing the way everyone else thought they should have been playing doesnt mean they were anti-social.

As for less incentive to not kill other people, the only way for that to happen is for everyone to never carry anything of any remote value on them what so ever.

I never said all. And it would shock you to know the actual ages of a lot of the players that were playing at that time. There was a much broader mix than there is now I would bet.

How do you know the exact ages of people who played back then? This is the internet. Learning a person's age is impossible.

Exactly. If that includes punishment for committing too many crimes...then so be it.

Perma-death is not an option..... at least not a good one. Its as bad as trammel.

Second, it would be unfair to the player who took the time to work up all of the skills on that character only to have it permanently killed off.

I disagree. Every single red knew that the bulk of the players in the game were not happy with what they were doing, and they did it anyway.

Yeah, and every single miner knew that the bulk of the rest of the miners didnt like it when one of them would come along and start mining the same spot they were. What were people supposed to do? Say "Oh my, I am terribly sorry, you were mining here aready. Ill just leave"?

Hell no. 9 times out of 10, the two miners would end up attacking eachother and the winner would kill the loser, loot his ore and finish mining the spot. It wasnt always reds attacking blues. More often than not, blues would turn on eachother and kill eachother over things like resources, monster spawns, or if someone was just being a foul mouthed douch.

I see what youre going at here. You want everyone to be mindful of the needs of everyone else. Sorry, Miss. Spock, but no one is going to put the needs of the many before the needs of themselves.

UO was a competitive game, not a hippie commune. It was a game of survival and challenge, not lets all hold hands and be polite. It was smash mouth, dog eat dog, winner takes all, battle to scratch out a place in a world that rewarded the strong and punished the weak and foolish. People with similar goals would form guilds and work together for survival or to carry out their similar goals.

It's like smoking in public places. Eventually, if enough people decide they are sick of something, they complain. The easy answer to the problem would be compulsory limits on where people can smoke. But too many people abuse that, so mandatory limits have to be placed.

Yeah, but no one is suggesting killing the smokers for smoking too much.

The devs in UO made their position known on rampant PKing, but the red population didn't stop. They just kept killing anyone they saw, talking trash, looting, and rez killing. They should have known what was coming, I did.

Did the devs actually see rampant PKing? Or did they just listen to the whiners who kept spamming the forums and the GMs with complains about being killed? Odds are, its the latter than the former.

The only grudge I carry against reds is how they allowed their insistence on forcing their playstyle on everyone around them to the point of causing the devs to have to ruin the game with Trammel. Yes, I still hold a grudge over that, because it was their selfishness that ruined the game I loved.

Like I said before, it was an open PvP game. People who didnt like it shouldnt have played. Or, if they wanted to keep playing, accepted the right those PKS had to kill them and realized, its part of the game and that is the role they have chosen to play, instead of complaining about it incessantly every time they got killed and lost their newbie pants.

How were ther reds being selfish? They were simply playing the role the game allowed them to play. If anyone was being selfish, it was the non-PvPers insisting they get preferential treatment and be protected from PvP in an OPEN PVP game, whining, crying, and pestering the Devs and GM's with their immature complaints. Also, if there was any forcing of game plays, it was the non-PvPers. I mean, come on, they went and got the ENTIRE GAME CHANGED TO SUIT THEIR WANTS.

So, who was being selfish?

Have you ever heard of the term 'escalation of force'?

What? More people start making reds to try and overwhelm the blues? Doubtful. For one, it would be a meat grinder. Make new red characters to keep throwing at blues, only to have them keep getting arrested? Seems kinda pointless. Plus, the only way to wear down the prison sentence, they have to log the character on and sit there in the cell and wait....and wait....and wait....and wait.....

I agree, imprisonment should be the idea tried first. But what happens if it actually doesn't work? Do we go back to Tram/Fel? Or should other methods be explored.

How wouldnt the imprisonment idea work?

Take a look at my additions to your idea:

Interesting idea. It could be the result of getting nailed by the guards.

Or, the result of getting captured by blue players.

Example: Instead of being killed when their health hits 0, the red is incapacitated and cannot move, fight, or use anything in the backpack, but still fully lootable. This way, the player who kills them still gets to loot all of their stuff and they wont have anything to escape with from jail. While incapacitated, blue players could use craftable shackles (made by blacksmiths, go player crafted items!) and apprehend the red player. the red players character would then become like a follower and follow the blue player to the nearest dugeon for arrest. Once there, the blue player talks to a jailor NPC and the red player is then teleported to a vacant cell to serve out a certain amount of time dependent on how many murder they have commited.

However, to balance things out, the red could be sprung by someone if the blue transporting them gets killed before they can get them to the jail.

They are forced to log the character in in prison cell and wait out their sentence, plus get fined gold. Also, something I thought of later, for each 1g of the fine they dont have, an extra hour is tacked on. So, if they are fined 1000 gold and they dont have it in their bank account, thats 1000 extra hours tacked onto their sentence.

Trust me, I don't want to see anyone lose a character that they have spent a great deal of time building up. That's not a good thing...but at the same time, if they understand that they are approaching a limit, and they cross that threshold, who is to blame?

And if they cant get rid of their red status, then what? The character is as good as dead because they cant lose the red staus, but they also cant kill anyone with it if someone attacks them. Catch 22.

Imprisonment will have an impact. Plus, it gives non PK players more power to control the ingame PvP situation by being able to capture reds and lock them up. It keeps the reds out of commission for extended periods of time.

I don't mean this to be an insult, but I think you have a misplaced victim's complex. You claim that the true victims, the unwilling people PKed by reds, should have known better. Yet they were engaging in no behavior that would cause them to face any negative consequence beyond having the audacity to pay their monthly fees and trying to play the same game as the reds. Meanwhile, you cry foul at a red being held accountable for his or her own actions...which victimize someone that did nothing wrong.

Never cried foul at the red being punished, I just dont believe that perma death is a viable solution. Dont put words in my mouth.

As for the audacity to pay their monthly fee, there was nothing audacious about what they were doing. They played the game full knowing about the open PvP. What was audacious was their gaul to complain on the forums and to the devs when they got PK'd. They knew this was going to happen, they knew they were going to get killed, yet they she-dogged about it anyway.

Its the hypocracy and childishness that sickens me the most. Those people signed on to a game they knew was full of risk, and they had the balls to complain when it happened. The people who cried when they died are just as bad people who step in front of moving cars on purpose just so they can sue the driver when they get hit.

 

[Unsatisfied]

OK, this thread has gotten quite rediculous in my opinion.

People are calling their arguements as being in favor of a "Classic Shard", and then want the things that make it very much unclassic.

In a Classic Shard these are the properties that go into it:
-It is what we know now as "Felucca Ruleset".
-However, there were true consequences for going "red" and for going "grey", for that matter.
-There is NO customizable houses. You have your two dozen or so to pick from. That's it.
-Combat specials are randomized based on the fighting skill and/or weapon.

If you are piecemealing and picking and choosing from features that have come with or since UO:R, all you are doing is attempting to create a customizable shard and NOT a Classic Shard. The argument of a Trammel Only Classic Shard is a true oxymoron, and no longer warrants any due consideration whatsoever.

Also, I would like to point out that people are presenting suppositions as facts. Just because you think a Classic Shard will make people come back or significantly increase subscriptions for EA, that DOES NOT MAKE IT TRUE. Also, I doubt very seriously that anyone has actually conducted some serious polling throughout the worldwide UO players/former UO players to actually have the empirical evidence to back up any of these claims.

Personally, I am intrigued with the concept of a Classic Shard. However, due to the fact that there is so much separation in opinions as to what should and shouldn't go into it, and an increase in EA time and resources to establish and manage that it is not likely to happen.

Congrats to the OP, this may be the only one left unlocked, but in the end, there was no new discussion fostered that hasn't been discussed over the last couple years.

Honestly I'm more in favor of this over any other idea, I want it to be t2a era as it was, with stat loss for reds, bounty system period. I dont want it to be a custom shard or anything like that. Unfortunately not too many people are just okaying a single era so I'm just giving my opinion on things that I wouldnt absolutely hate in the game, in case it doesnt go down "classic" as I want it.

They dont need to make a trammel only shard to see the results. You want to see the success of trammel? Look at all of the other servers. Theres your evidence right there.

Also, considering that the poll is showing 70% in favor of a T2A only style setting, then the majority consensus has spoken. The classic server supporters want T2A. They want it to be just Britannia.

I'm not 100% sure if you understood what I was getting at, I would rather there be one shard. a Britannia (Felucca ruleset) but what I was getting at is unfortunately its just going to keep the complaints of 30% of the people rolling in. If we were to give them their tram shard as a 2nd shard they would get bored and probably come over to the fel shard pretty quickly anyway, and at least that would stop the complaints.

I know the MAJORITY have spoken saying they want fel, but its the minority that will still complain and probably end up bringing tram into the fel shard if they dont have their own shard to go to and find out that its boring after a while.


but again trust me, Britannia is all I want. Player justice for all.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

They dont need to make a trammel only shard to see the results. You want to see the success of trammel? Look at all of the other servers. Theres your evidence right there.

Also, considering that the poll is showing 70% in favor of a T2A only style setting, then the majority consensus has spoken. The classic server supporters want T2A. They want it to be just Britannia.

You understand that T2A did not include Trammel, right?

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

As for less incentive to not kill other people, the only way for that to happen is for everyone to never carry anything of any remote value on them what so ever.

So what you are saying is there should be one playstyle only, and if you don't want to be involved in that playstyle...don't play.

We have that setup now with the Tram/Fel split. The people that want to be involved in PvP stay in Fel...all dozen or so of them. Everyone else is in Tram.

How do you know the exact ages of people who played back then? This is the internet. Learning a person's age is impossible.

Because back in the old days of UO, unlike today, the community was strong enough that many players actually met one another and got to know one another outside the game.

Perma-death is not an option..... at least not a good one. Its as bad as trammel.

Second, it would be unfair to the player who took the time to work up all of the skills on that character only to have it permanently killed off.

And that is your opinion...but not your decision to make.

I see what youre going at here. You want everyone to be mindful of the needs of everyone else. Sorry, Miss. Spock, but no one is going to put the needs of the many before the needs of themselves.

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UO was a competitive game, not a hippie commune.

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Or did they just listen to the whiners who kept spamming the forums and the GMs with complains about being killed?

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instead of complaining about it incessantly every time they got killed and lost their newbie pants.

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whining, crying, and pestering the Devs and GM's with their immature complaints.

------------------------------------------------------------

And so the thread degrades into name calling...


...well, if it doesn't get locked, it might as well be for me. I am not going to trade insults with you...I am done here.


Looks like a short-sighted "me,me,me!!" red will ruin the thread as they did the game...

...what a shame.

 

[Cetric]

Looks like a short-sighted "me,me,me!!" red will ruin the thread as they did the game...

...what a shame.

Come on now, me me me red? i can name hundreds of reasons why most pvpers are not all about themselves vs. a pvm blue who lives for trammel. You want proof? check out the threads about wanting 120 power scrolls in tram. That is the me me me attitude =//

you even spoke yoruself of how trammel ruined the game...wouldnt that be the me me me person who didn't want to pvp? a non red? a red my have made them feel this way.. but really..come on now. is this just your frustration with this giant argument showing through?

 

[dum3886]

If they have a classic shard they should make like 3 servers... one for US/EU and one for Asia(including australia)... so if possible put it in a country like Singapore where its not tooooo far... and hopefully wun lag for me haha .. (i'm in Australia)

...

Sorry if someone has already mentioned this but i don't believe a classic shard will take the population away from the current mainstream ones. They will be working parallel so people can play UO Classic... and 1 minute later switch to a different non-classic UO server.

Everyone is happy ... u get old timers playing(revenue raising)... and i am pretty sure they will at least try the new uo as well. So uo classic = populated... normal server = MORE populated. [ I for one played uo between 1999 and mm... 2003?] and again in [2007-2009]... I prefer pre-AOS uo but that won't stop me from playing a bit of the new uo..as it'll be a change... It's almost like im buying two games at once!

Also for EA, less business risk... more diversification(Pre-AOS/Current is VERY diff trust me), you'll be less vulnerable to the new shifts in consumer taste

Nushpapa!

Edit: just as a bit of extra: Play the odds people, choose a time period where the most people will be happy. I am not saying i don't want a shard with only fel, but its all about numbers. Remember EA is a profit organisation, the more people who are willing to join the more likely a classic shard will be formed. Also maybe we can also learn from the new uo, i.e: consider changing the idoc timer a little bit. In this day and age and with the demographic of the UO population(relatively old?).. a lot of us work, have families etc...

Numbers numbers numbers... we need to attract the maximum number of people while maintaining the spirit/culture of the old UO.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Come on now, me me me red? i can name hundreds of reasons why most pvpers are not all about themselves vs. a pvm blue who lives for trammel. You want proof? check out the threads about wanting 120 power scrolls in tram. That is the me me me attitude =//

you even spoke yoruself of how trammel ruined the game...wouldnt that be the me me me person who didn't want to pvp? a non red? a red my have made them feel this way.. but really..come on now. is this just your frustration with this giant argument showing through?

No...it wouldn't be the non-pvp'ers that caused Trammel...which DID ruin the game.

It was the reds that wouldn't stop victimizing people that wanted no part of PvP.

The argument 'oh, if they hadn't wanted to be PKed, they shouldn't have been in the game' is about as lame as 'if she didn't want to get ****d, she wouldn't have worn that dress!'

If the reds had stopped for even one moment to consider what the other players, the majority of the players, wanted...and had shown even a little restraint and respect for those around them, then Trammel would never have been necessary.

But some people cannot understand that if you have a pond, and you fish, and fish, and fish, that eventually, if you fish faster than the fish procreate, there will be no more fish.

This 'it's got to be 100% all out, gankfest, PvP, kill'em all, if you don't like it don't play' attitude is what caused the devs to have to implement the horrible "solution" they did.

You know, up until the last few days, I actually believed that if given another chance, that PKs in UO would see the error of their ways, and that they would do something differently this time to avoid what happened last time...


...but it is painfully obvious that I was wrong. No matter what the devs would have tried, it would appear that a PvP switch/world split/Trammel was the only answer.

And with that, I give up on my quest for a Classic Shard, because I understand now that it would be no different than the last time, and it would end up the exact same way.

 

[Dwarven Smith]

LOL

Ok, last post I swear...I have deleted everything else pertaning to UO except this link...Man it's all been on my computer for over 11 years...I was really hoping something might change, but form these posts it is very obvious it will never change...

Hey here's an idea,(stolen from this games biggest competitor, who by the way is still going very very stong), why not add an option to simply opt out of PvP... Except in certain areas or if you perform an action that is PvP oriented, such as attacking, loot stealing, maybe even a grief activation of this PvP mode...

Here's another idea use this toggle as a way to maintain some semblance of order...Say you got a red who has 20 counts in a week...Keep in mind you can only PK people who actually venture into PvP areas or auto toggle'd to PvP mode or actually want the PvP content and run with it toggled on always...So 20 would be a pretty relaxed number and fairly hard to hit...People who want to PvP and turn it on, can hardly report you for PK'n them ...So after you hit a certain number of PK/Reported kills in a certain time frame be it hours, days , week, month whatever...Then utt ohh you can no longer toggle or turn on include me in PvP for a certain amount of time...Also make it to where people who report actually had a reason, say rez kills repeated over and over...Or just plain malicious behavior by a Red that is no fun for anyone but themselves...It would kinda make the people who want PvP content thier own police...They would be ones doing the reporting for simple fact they are ones who would be running in PvP mode all the time...

Yes, I know this sytem could be easily abused, but hey PK'rs are a very honarable group, at least the ones I ran with and fought against...So if we couldn't polive ourselves who could...It's the Wanna Be's and Johny Short-Cuts that would ruin it...Just as it did in the past...

This is only an idea, that I hope may spur some better more thought outm and actually enforcable PvP-PvE joint communitie rule set that both would be happy with...So all could enjoy the play style they like best...Even with PvP off you could still engage these non PvP fans of UO...Simply throw something they want into one of the unsafe zones...That would cause them to auto flag for PvP...

Anyway I wish you all the best and hope it works out...

Who knows I may check back in again in a year or so and gladly join you all on a Shard with a rules set that makes everyone happy without splitting the communitie into Seperate Groups...

Thx Zedd

 

[Unsatisfied]

If they have a classic shard they should make like 3 servers... one for US/EU and one for Asia(including australia)... so if possible put it in a country like Singapore where its not tooooo far... and hopefully wun lag for me haha .. (i'm in Australia)

I'm Australian too and I cant understand why U.S EA servers give me sucn horrid lag in this day and age. The two free shards I play I have an almost identical ping to 90% of the americans on their servers, and this is amature ran custom servers by some people in their mothers basements. So why cant a multi million dollar company offer me the same GOOD ping on servers at the same distance?

 

[Heartseeker]

Come on now, me me me red? i can name hundreds of reasons why most pvpers are not all about themselves vs. a pvm blue who lives for trammel. You want proof? check out the threads about wanting 120 power scrolls in tram. That is the me me me attitude =//

you even spoke yoruself of how trammel ruined the game...wouldnt that be the me me me person who didn't want to pvp? a non red? a red my have made them feel this way.. but really..come on now. is this just your frustration with this giant argument showing through?

No...it wouldn't be the non-pvp'ers that caused Trammel...which DID ruin the game.

It was the reds that wouldn't stop victimizing people that wanted no part of PvP.

The argument 'oh, if they hadn't wanted to be PKed, they shouldn't have been in the game' is about as lame as 'if she didn't want to get ****d, she wouldn't have worn that dress!'

If the reds had stopped for even one moment to consider what the other players, the majority of the players, wanted...and had shown even a little restraint and respect for those around them, then Trammel would never have been necessary.

But some people cannot understand that if you have a pond, and you fish, and fish, and fish, that eventually, if you fish faster than the fish procreate, there will be no more fish.

This 'it's got to be 100% all out, gankfest, PvP, kill'em all, if you don't like it don't play' attitude is what caused the devs to have to implement the horrible "solution" they did.

You know, up until the last few days, I actually believed that if given another chance, that PKs in UO would see the error of their ways, and that they would do something differently this time to avoid what happened last time...


...but it is painfully obvious that I was wrong. No matter what the devs would have tried, it would appear that a PvP switch/world split/Trammel was the only answer.

And with that, I give up on my quest for a Classic Shard, because I understand now that it would be no different than the last time, and it would end up the exact same way.

Maybe you shouldn't post on this topic anymore.

You're getting to emotional about the past here.

You're not 13 anymore and surely you realize this is a game.

You speak of conduct and being civil; good luck with that.

It is an adventure game, not eHarmony.

This discussion is about a Classic Shard, not about what once was bad/good.

There are many Trammel facets now, and plenty of shards for anyone to adventure.

We would like to have a different one; a server like the original one with little boundaries and rules.

There is no reason to bring up any different rules of conduct and civility, just the game that was in T2A.

You can still play Atlantic and be as safe as you want to be; but on this new shard there are no guarantees.

 

[Tanivar]

You know, up until the last few days, I actually believed that if given another chance, that PKs in UO would see the error of their ways, and that they would do something differently this time to avoid what happened last time...


...but it is painfully obvious that I was wrong. No matter what the devs would have tried, it would appear that a PvP switch/world split/Trammel was the only answer.

And with that, I give up on my quest for a Classic Shard, because I understand now that it would be no different than the last time, and it would end up the exact same way.

Don't give up on it Morgana, the hope for a Classic Shard isn't gone until the Devs announce publically that it is.

I had hoped that the PK fans would come up with ideas that would prevent a repeat of the situation that caused players to demand a change so they could play as more than PK targets, but apparently no go.

It's now up to the Devs. They can go through the threads about a Classic Shard, consider what has been writen, and perhaps come up with a way to limit the effects of PKing.

The Devs now have the time to work out ways, other than a Trammel facet or shard, to prevent non-con PvP players who want to escape AOS, from being driven out of a Classic Shard. Hopefully they still consider the idea worth the effort.

It's not over yet.

Any of the Devs care to comment?

 

[Unsatisfied]

Don't give up on it Morgana, the hope for a Classic Shard isn't gone until the Devs announce publically that it is.

I had hoped that the PK fans would come up with ideas that would prevent a repeat of the situation that caused players to demand a change so they could play as more than PK targets, but apparently no go.

It's now up to the Devs. They can go through the threads about a Classic Shard, consider what has been writen, and perhaps come up with a way to limit the effects of PKing.

The Devs now have the time to work out ways, other than a Trammel facet or shard, to prevent non-con PvP players who want to escape AOS, from being driven out of a Classic Shard. Hopefully they still consider the idea worth the effort.

It's not over yet.

Any of the Devs care to comment?

Theres been suggestions, real jail time, bounding pks and taking them back to jail was a fine option that seems to have been completely ignored for more irrational ideas like perma death, I'm pretty sure the pks were happy with the idea of taking reds back to jail and having to defend them to the jail or they can get broken out.

Honestly I think its off the trail of classic and the shard should at least start classic because it is after all a classic shard, if things like this need to be implemented lets talk about it then. But yeah like I said at least people are trying to come up with ideas, but in no way are pks going to agree to something as extreme as perma death.

 

[Kaleb]

Theres been suggestions, real jail time, bounding pks and taking them back to jail was a fine option that seems to have been completely ignored for more irrational ideas like perma death, I'm pretty sure the pks were happy with the idea of taking reds back to jail and having to defend them to the jail or they can get broken out.

Honestly I think its off the trail of classic and the shard should at least start classic because it is after all a classic shard, if things like this need to be implemented lets talk about it then. But yeah like I said at least people are trying to come up with ideas, but in no way are pks going to agree to something as extreme as perma death.

Stat and skill loss of old is the best option, Only the best PK's would roam while this was in effect, There are currently players who are red not because they are murderers but simply by helping their group, guild, faction. Many times in group battle even if your blue you will have to attack and kill other blues or they will get you so permadeath, and jail is not an option. Statloss, Reds not being able to enter citys, and no use of the virtues is punishment enough.

 

[Kaleb]

Don't give up on it Morgana, the hope for a Classic Shard isn't gone until the Devs announce publically that it is.

I had hoped that the PK fans would come up with ideas that would prevent a repeat of the situation that caused players to demand a change so they could play as more than PK targets, but apparently no go.

It's now up to the Devs. They can go through the threads about a Classic Shard, consider what has been writen, and perhaps come up with a way to limit the effects of PKing.

The Devs now have the time to work out ways, other than a Trammel facet or shard, to prevent non-con PvP players who want to escape AOS, from being driven out of a Classic Shard. Hopefully they still consider the idea worth the effort.

It's not over yet.

Any of the Devs care to comment?

Sorry to break this to ya but there are thousands of players on a "classic" PRS i play that has no tram, reds have no statloss and can enter citys. PVM is flourishing, PvMers out number PK's at least 5/1. The risk of being PK'ed is there but doesn't stop them/us from critter bashing. 90% of my time on that server is spent PvM, IF all these People did not like the ruleset then they are free to play a trammie version but they choose not to. Why is that I wonder?

 

[Unsatisfied]

Stat and skill loss of old is the best option, Only the best PK's would roam while this was in effect, There are currently players who are red not because they are murderers but simply by helping their group, guild, faction. Many times in group battle even if your blue you will have to attack and kill other blues or they will get you so permadeath, and jail is not an option. Statloss, Reds not being able to enter citys, and no use of the virtues is punishment enough.

Stat loss is all I want, I was simply stating that people had come up with options and saying which ones i perfered over stupid ideas like perma death. And as far as the actual jail time idea that someone brought up was concerned im sure that would be just like stat loss and depend on your short term murders, so technically you could still be red and not get jail time as long as you stayed under a certain ammount of short counts. And the idea wasnt bad if you read it. The idea of taking imprissoned pks that have too many short term counts on a walk to the jail, and having other reds come and try and kill the blues that capped them to free the other red sounds like an alright idea.

But again I'd rather it just be stat loss, bounty system if you read everything thats been said I've said this multiple times.

 

[Unsatisfied]

Sorry to break this to ya but there are thousands of players on a "classic" PRS i play that has no tram, reds have no statloss and can enter citys. PVM is flourishing, PvMers out number PK's at least 5/1. The risk of being PK'ed is there but doesn't stop them/us from critter bashing. 90% of my time on that server is spent PvM, IF all these People did not like the ruleset then they are free to play a trammie version but they choose not to. Why is that I wonder?

I'm behind you 100% here im on the same thing, but its become abundantly clear that the people against a fel ruleset dont want to hear about the success of fel only PRS that were on. To them its all hearsay or even if its legit they dont believe people will leave them to pay for a similar shard. So before you get into this argument with them just a warning, you've said it once but now that its been said, save your breath lol.

 

[Kaleb]

And with that, I give up on my quest for a Classic Shard, because I understand now that it would be no different than the last time, and it would end up the exact same way.

That is why a lot of us Pro fel players feel a tram version is needed also, its all about personal choice. We all know based off the last 10 years the 2 rulesets cannot and will not be able to coexist on a level where changes cannot become a major unbalance or nerf to one playstyle or the other, Many feel that a tram server was needed back in 2k but the way OSI added it to the game was lazy and 1/2 arsed, there would be no reason todays devs can't make a tram version of a classic shard along side a fel, to truly see how things would have worked out if they would have done the split at launch of UO:R.

On another note these servers will have to be among the best like the ones who run the Classic PRS I play, everyone for the most part runs the same speed regardless of location/ping, or they would have to make 1 for each timezone, hence why a lot dont play siege being that its a eastcoast server and west coasters are at a disadvantage.

Classic Shard: IMHO

Keeping with in the original concept and spirit that made the game loved by many people around the world, No AOS but not limited to, newer features additions like lands, dungeons, bosses, that are not unbalancing to gameplay that does not deviate from the old combat/Armor system, (a InV. Samurai suit, or vanq bukuto would be sweet), Custom housing but going back to where you had to lock doors no private houses Texas Law if you not a friend your grey and attackable, Revert of the resisting spells skill, Order/Chaos (both tram and fel versions), No powerscrolls, BOD's but with new rewards no runics (though runics do work well on the PRS i play it gives crafters a great way for income and is not overly unbalancing compared to the highest end loot item in game no Itembless deeds are a key if OSI didnot release IBD's runics would have not been a problem), no neon, Stat/skill loss for reds, Cannot use cities save for only a couple (fel based only), no item bless deeds cloth OK, no insurance, No Power stat scrolls, though I would accept PS for smith and tailors (works well on the PRS i play), No charged items, no repair deeds, Silver steeds.

I would be content with Todays UO, If it were still under the PRE AOS Item/Combat/Skill system, One ruleset (mostly for PvP,PVM balance issues though a pre AOS system is pretty balanced no matter the playstyle), A revert of key features IE: stat/skill loss for reds, Order/Chaos,Try to think of what UO would be like today if under the original spirit of the game be it a tram shard or a fel shard, I picture the perfect game to be honest.

 

[Kaleb]

Stat loss is all I want, I was simply stating that people had come up with options and saying which ones i perfered over stupid ideas like perma death. And as far as the actual jail time idea that someone brought up was concerned im sure that would be just like stat loss and depend on your short term murders, so technically you could still be red and not get jail time as long as you stayed under a certain ammount of short counts. And the idea wasnt bad if you read it. The idea of taking imprissoned pks that have too many short term counts on a walk to the jail, and having other reds come and try and kill the blues that capped them to free the other red sounds like an alright idea.

But again I'd rather it just be stat loss, bounty system if you read everything thats been said I've said this multiple times.

Problem is we dont want to add, We want to make it as easy as possible, The code for Stat/skill loss is already there, as with Reds not entering guard zones, reds's not being able to use virtues, even the code where Reds could not use bless/newbie items at all is still in there somewhere. The bounty system while it was fun for the Honest players, was abused and Exploited by the dishonest.

 

[Unsatisfied]

That is why a lot of us Pro fel players feel a tram version is needed also, its all about personal choice. We all know based off the last 10 years the 2 rulesets cannot and will not be able to coexist on a level where changes cannot become a major unbalance or nerf to one playstyle or the other, Many feel that a tram server was needed back in 2k but the way OSI added it to the game was lazy and 1/2 arsed, there would be no reason todays devs can't make a tram version of a classic shard along side a fel, to truly see how things would have worked out if they would have done the split at launch of UO:R.

On another note these servers will have to be among the best like the ones who run the Classic PRS I play, everyone for the most part runs the same speed regardless of location/ping, or they would have to make 1 for each timezone, hence why a lot dont play siege being that its a eastcoast server and west coasters are at a disadvantage.

Classic Shard: IMHO

Keeping with in the original concept and spirit that made the game loved by many people around the world, No AOS but not limited to, newer features additions like lands, dungeons, bosses, that are not unbalancing to gameplay that does not deviate from the old combat/Armor system, (a InV. Samurai suit, or vanq bukuto would be sweet), Custom housing but going back to where you had to lock doors no private houses Texas Law if you not a friend your grey and attackable, Revert of the resisting spells skill, Order/Chaos (both tram and fel versions), No powerscrolls, BOD's but with new rewards no runics (though runics do work well on the PRS i play it gives crafters a great way for income and is not overly unbalancing compared to the highest end loot item in game no Itembless deeds are a key if OSI didnot release IBD's runics would have not been a problem), no neon, Stat/skill loss for reds, Cannot use cities save for only a couple (fel based only), no item bless deeds cloth OK, no insurance, No Power stat scrolls, though I would accept PS for smith and tailors (works well on the PRS i play), No charged items, no repair deeds, Silver steeds.

I would be content with Todays UO, If it were still under the PRE AOS Item/Combat/Skill system, One ruleset (mostly for PvP,PVM balance issues though a pre AOS system is pretty balanced no matter the playstyle), A revert of key features IE: stat/skill loss for reds, Order/Chaos,Try to think of what UO would be like today if under the original spirit of the game be it a tram shard or a fel shard, I picture the perfect game to be honest.

The more its talked about the less I'm liking the idea of bringing all the modern things onto the classic shard, at least to begin with. It should be era specific only with bug fixes. Then once its been running if its clear that something should be tweaked by adding something like factions, or custom housing or harsher peanalties for reds (no not the addition of tramel OR perma death) whatever make it after the shard has been running and sees a strong need for such things. If theres no need for it. Leave it how it is. Simply opening some crazy hybrid straight up I believe isnt staying true to making a classic shard.

 

[canary]

Stat loss is all I want, I was simply stating that people had come up with options and saying which ones i perfered over stupid ideas like perma death.

What did they do to murderers back in medieval times? Oh, that's right... they'd execute them.

As stated by many, even in the past by Designer Dragon, there need to be severe penalties for engaging in this kind (pk'ing, thievery) playstyle. It isn't that you SHOULDN'T be allowed to do it, but if you willingly do you should (imo) be aware that there may be a great risk on your end, as well.

And isn't that what I keep reading from many die hard 'reds' around here? You want risk? Well, you'd get your wish.

 

[Unsatisfied]

Problem is we dont want to add, We want to make it as easy as possible, The code for Stat/skill loss is already there, as with Reds not entering guard zones, reds's not being able to use virtues, even the code where Reds could not use bless/newbie items at all is still in there somewhere. The bounty system while it was fun for the Honest players, was abused and Exploited by the dishonest.

Do I really need to say it again dude?

I dont really want those additions all I want is stat loss/bounty system.

And I'm sure theres an easy solution to the bounty system abuse 10 years on, but if not scrap that its not the biggest loss on earth.

I want it to be as era specific as it can drop us in t2a or something similar, with no additions other than bug fixes and I'm happy, if were talking about "we want to make things simple" then stop bringing up all the hybrid things you want from this day and age in it

 

[canary]

Do I really need to say it again dude?

I dont really want those additions all I want is stat loss/bounty system.

No, what you want is the easy way out because it favors/ caters to your particular playstyle.

 

[canary]

then stop bringing up all the hybrid things you want from this day and age in it

Fact of the matter is that they would not drop a classic shard down and then never tweak it or update it.

People need different and ongoing content. Discussing these changes, ESPECIALLY to the way justice works, is totally OK, imo.

 

[Unsatisfied]

What did they do to murderers back in medieval times? Oh, that's right... they'd execute them.

As stated by many, even in the past by Designer Dragon, there need to be severe penalties for engaging in this kind (pk'ing, thievery) playstyle. It isn't that you SHOULDN'T be allowed to do it, but if you willingly do you should (imo) be aware that there may be a great risk on your end, as well.

And isn't that what I keep reading from many die hard 'reds' around here? You want risk? Well, you'd get your wish.

Your trying to compare real life a little too closely to a game.

I think theres a difference between reds wanting risk, and reds wanting weeks or months of hard work being taken away because they slipped up once and died, or worse their computer crashed or they hit a rediculous lag spike.

Or scrap I decide to get a group of 5, 10, hell 15 griefers together when i see you killing things with fire field to all rush the fire field, kill each other, die, count you once each then kill you. GG perma death, its amazing the lengths people will go to when something as extreme as that exists.

 

[Unsatisfied]

Fact of the matter is that they would not drop a classic shard down and then never tweak it or update it.

People need different and ongoing content. Discussing these changes, ESPECIALLY to the way justice works, is totally OK, imo.

The more its talked about the less I'm liking the idea of bringing all the modern things onto the classic shard, at least to begin with. It should be era specific only with bug fixes. Then once its been running if its clear that something should be tweaked by adding something like factions, or custom housing or harsher peanalties for reds (no not the addition of tramel OR perma death) whatever make it after the shard has been running and sees a strong need for such things. If theres no need for it. Leave it how it is. Simply opening some crazy hybrid straight up I believe isnt staying true to making a classic shard.

Please read my posts, especially when they are only about 2 posts above this one.

No, what you want is the easy way out because it favors/ caters to your particular playstyle.

mate what are you going on about? that post was directed to one person specifically who was telling me that all that should be there is stat loss, and I was just agreeing with him and saying that it was getting old agreeing with him only for him to misunderstand me :/

If that sounds rude or whatever maybe its cos its after like 2am and im tired as all hell but your reply just seemed like you were tryin to rip into me over something that I was directing to one person in particular.

 

[canary]

Your trying to compare real life a little too closely to a game.

I think theres a difference between reds wanting risk, and reds wanting weeks or months of hard work being taken away because they slipped up once and died, or worse their computer crashed or they hit a rediculous lag spike.

Or scrap I decide to get a group of 5, 10, hell 15 griefers together when i see you killing things with fire field to all rush the fire field, kill each other, die, count you once each then kill you. GG perma death, its amazing the lengths people will go to when something as extreme as that exists.

Again, you are CHOOSING to risk your character when you engage in this behavior.

Should PK's have ruined hard months work of players who saved for a house by killing them and taking their keys?

Should PK's ruined the work of looting a Vanq Katana that someone worked months up of fighting for?

Everything by that measure is an investment. Your point, therefore, is moot.

It's risk. You want risk, it is all yours. LOL... Look as it as there 'rush of excitement' to keep your character alive and get away with such anti social behavior. I keep hearing that so many want challenge. Think of it as the GREATEST challenge.

 

[Unsatisfied]

Again, you are CHOOSING to risk your character when you engage in this behavior.

Should PK's have ruined hard months work of players who saved for a house by killing them and taking their keys?

Should PK's ruined the work of looting a Vanq Katana that someone worked months up of fighting for?

Everything by that measure is an investment. Your point, therefore, is moot.

It's risk. You want risk, it is all yours. LOL... Look as it as there 'rush of excitement' to keep your character alive and get away with such anti social behavior. I keep hearing that so many want challenge. Think of it as the GREATEST challenge.

How is it a challenge when you could so easily just have your computer crash and then bam, everything you worked for is over? not because you were careless or anything, simply because computers can be unreliable?

When a player was pked with a key on them and they lost their house it could have been avoided by being cautious, putting the key on a vendor outside the house, simple things like that... A lag spike or a computer crash can not be helped and then you lose anything...

Or even scrap that wheres your answer for my other point about griefers charging into your blues fire fields? are you saying you should never use fire field or similar spells out of fear that however unlikely, people could come in and turn you red, then kill you (PERMANENTLY) because you were using fire field?

 

[canary]

How is it a challenge when you could so easily just have your computer crash and then bam, everything you worked for is over?

The same holds true for the person whose computer crashed who owned the house or the vanq katana in my above mentioned statement.

So again... your logic fails.

 

[Unsatisfied]

1) the key never had to leave their vendor in this hypothetical simple precaution even a crash couldnt foil.

2) Saying that someone who took someones vanq katana diserves to lose their character permanently is quite frankly one of the worst comparisons ive heard in a long time. I know how you like to compare the game to real life judging by your "murderers back in the day were exicuted" analogy so heres one. If someone punched me I'd be hurt, hell id be pissed off and Id wanna hit them back. I wouldnt want them dead.

Anyway I've had enough about arguing with you about this one topic. Its going nowhere its clear what my stance is, and besides this is a discussion on the classic shard not the pros and cons of perma death. Final words on this. I'm not a pker but im gonna stand up for them right here. You wanna talk about the easy way out? well Perma death is the easy way out, the simple fix for blues. I'm going to bed.

 

[canary]

1) the key never had to leave their vendor in this hypothetical simple precaution even a crash couldnt foil.

2) Saying that someone who took someones vanq katana diserves to lose their character permanently is quite frankly one of the worst comparisons ive heard in a long time. I know how you like to compare the game to real life judging by your "murderers back in the day were exicuted" analogy so heres one. If someone punched me I'd be hurt, hell id be pissed off and Id wanna hit them back. I wouldnt want them dead.

Anyway I've had enough about arguing with you about this one topic. Its going nowhere its clear what my stance is, and besides this is a discussion on the classic shard not the pros and cons of perma death. Final words on this. I'm not a pker but im gonna stand up for them right here. You wanna talk about the easy way out? well Perma death is the easy way out, the simple fix for blues. I'm going to bed.

Your spelling is atrocious, and you cannot argue with me because you are, simply, wrong.

Both analogies I offered simply state what you tried to argue: investment of time and loss of something. You die as a red? Roll a new character and go back to square one. You got your challenge. It is no more different than time invested in any in game pursuit, be it gaining a UO home or attempting to get the 'best' weapon available.

 

[Tanivar]

Keep in mind there is a Mod watching this discussion. Don't get this thread locked by flaming each other.

We need to be able to keep going with this until we can come up with a method of controlling the PK playstyle that will keep it from motivating other players to leave. EA isn't likely to put expensive man/hours of work into setting up what would become another ghost town due to a lot of it's players getting tired of being PKed.

Please, stay mellow. I want to see you get your shard because the shard I want would be a mere ruleset change away from it.

 

[Llamfia]

I gurantee this this server will be the most populated server the second it goes live.
IMO this server is aimed at the people that played from 1997-2001, if the new school players dont want to play on a server aimed at the oldschool gameplay , then why bother even posting, just continuing playing on your current server. this is our time, dont dont involved, look what your getting involved has done to the UO we all used to love.

 

[Guido_LS]

I gurantee this this server will be the most populated server the second it goes live.
IMO this server is aimed at the people that played from 1997-2001, if the new school players dont want to play on a server aimed at the oldschool gameplay , then why bother even posting, just continuing playing on your current server. this is our time, dont dont involved, look what your getting involved has done to the UO we all used to love.

Reality check time.

There are far too many of you 'old school' players that quit, but are circling like vultures, hoping they bring it back. Newsflash - coding a new server, installing the server hardware, upkeep/extra bandwidth, etc - they all cost money. Money you aren't now, nor haven't for, in your case, over 9 years, put into the system.

Why should the current base of players have any say? (I won't disrespect them by calling them new-school - most have been playing since day 1, unlike the whining quitters) Simple. We are footing the bill. If you are so frightened of what our opinion (lol) will do in swaying the devs, then put your money where your mouth is, and pay for it. Because if you think that opinion matters even remotely in the equation when it comes to EA, dollars, and development time, then you will find that you are sadly mistaken, and, a year down the road, and 2, and 3, you will still be wanting that *classic* server hosted by EA.

Personally, I feel that Cal did the userbase a severe disservice even mentioning this. It's done nothing but cause more divisiveness amongst the community, and at this point is nothing more than a giant **** tease.

 

[Llamfia]

Reality check time.

There are far too many of you 'old school' players that quit, but are circling like vultures, hoping they bring it back. Newsflash - coding a new server, installing the server hardware, upkeep/extra bandwidth, etc - they all cost money. Money you aren't now, nor haven't for, in your case, over 9 years, put into the system.

Why should the current base of players have any say? (I won't disrespect them by calling them new-school - most have been playing since day 1, unlike the whining quitters) Simple. We are footing the bill. If you are so frightened of what our opinion (lol) will do in swaying the devs, then put your money where your mouth is, and pay for it. Because if you think that opinion matters even remotely in the equation when it comes to EA, dollars, and development time, then you will find that you are sadly mistaken, and, a year down the road, and 2, and 3, you will still be wanting that *classic* server hosted by EA.

Personally, I feel that Cal did the userbase a severe disservice even mentioning this. It's done nothing but cause more divisiveness amongst the community, and at this point is nothing more than a giant **** tease.

It's just a game buddy, stop acting like its life or death if a classic server comes up, we've been waiting for a classic server for years, thousands of us.

Also, do you know how many private servers are running on the old ruleset, servers that host thousands of players, if they can do it, a giant company like EA can do it.


WHINING QUITERS- The only whiners were the ones that complained about getting UO changed into a more Blue Friendly game.

 

[Kaleb]

We need to be able to keep going with this until we can come up with a method of controlling the PK playstyle that will keep it from motivating other players to leave. EA isn't likely to put expensive man/hours of work into setting up what would become another ghost town due to a lot of it's players getting tired of being PKed.

I have come up with the sure fire method, You cannot combine the 2 playstyles thus 2 separate types of shards are needed.

Tram free shards will fill up no doubt about it, controlling the PK's does not even have to be done, WHY? I have seen it on Player ran Shards and these shards are even more full than say Pacific or Atlantic. but yet people of all playstyles play them(fel only) when in fact they have a real choice on what ruleset they want to play.

Perma death is the wrong direction and really not a bright idea. No way can someone compare acquiring items to time spent building a character, besides this is a game not reallife.

So we Keep noncon PvP, but murderers(reds) would face Skill and stat loss for x- amount of time every death, Loose all blessed, noobie items each death including not limited to spellbooks, runebooks, clothing exc.exc.(everything drops on corpse), Loose the ability to enter towns besides Bucs, and maby 1-2 other towns. Just that would put PKing into check, and only the best players would be PK's for the most part.

 

[Tanivar]

I gurantee this this server will be the most populated server the second it goes live.
IMO this server is aimed at the people that played from 1997-2001, .

Most of whom apparently didn't like the endless constant PKing, got a way away from that PKing called Trammel, and took it. Look at the populations of Tram & Fel across the Shards run by EA. The Tram facets are populated far heavier than the Fel facets. EA isn't going to invest the time & money into what will probably be another underpopulated PK frenzy.

if the new school players dont want to play on a server aimed at the oldschool gameplay , then why bother even posting, just continuing playing on your current server. this is our time, dont dont involved,.

We are involved because we want a Classic Shard free of AOS. We want the skill-based game back, but without the constant fun wrecking PKing.

look what your getting involved has done to the UO we all used to love.

That UO you used to love died from excessive PKing. EA had to do something to stop the flow of players leaving the game due to being sick of being PKed over, and over, and over, and they did, a quick fix called Trammel.

If the PKers hadn't driven out so many players that EA had to create Tram, they'd still have a Tram free game. Tram would never have been created!

I'm taking a couple day break from this discussion. I'm way to close to losing it completely. It's definitely time this Camper took a time out.

Sheesh.... <g>

 

[dum3886]

I think some people are getting the wrong idea. We don't just want a classic shard for fel only.. or to pk the hell outta each other. we want the old game play back. We had Order and Chaos, fractions were around, GUILD WARS... barely see that stuff anymore. Crafters actually had something to do. The new imbuing thingo seems to have been another blow to crafters just as they started to get back into action (ok admittedly, due to the mass duping of hammers). The game became a knock off from diablo 2 with "whirlwind", double strike attacks etc.... what was wrong with the old system where a long spear could para u, or that big hammer thing gave u a concussion etc....? Idocs actually occured at different times of the day.. i swear on ocieana(2007-2009ish) it seemed to only occer at like 2am-5am (AUSTRALIAN TIME) wtf is with that.... the list goes on

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Even though I said I would not participate in this discussion, I feel it necessary to clarify some things I have posted here in this thread because some of the things I have said, and ideas I have presented, are being purposefully misrepresented. I am not offering anything new to do the discussion with these remarks:

1 - I am totally against a Classic Shard that includes Trammel in any form. If there will be a Trammel option, either on a seperate server, or via facets, then it is my opinion that a Classic Shard will fail in the long term because players will become bored.

2 - Perma-death. This was thrown out as a last resort option. Many posting here have tried to make it sound like I was suggesting that the moment you turn red and are killed, that your character is gone. That's never what I said, never what I implied, and never what I intended. Those believe that I was implying that are mistaken.

3 - It is my firm belief that, based on the past, a single facet Classic Shard that has nothing in place to curtail rampant PKing beyond the methods that were already employed by the devs in the past will become as empty as Fel is on any existing shard in a very short period of time.

4 - I have advocated for both reds and blues on this thread, and others, because above all, I believe the mistake made with Trammel was that it separated the population...which in the end, greatly lessened the immersion and community of the game.

5 - It is my preference that a Classic Shard should start from day 1, with all necessary bug fixes in place. In addition to bug fixes, certain features that were added to the game before Pub 16 should be evaluated and potentially added to the game. Those included but are not limited to: House security including lock downs and friends/owners lists, control slots for pets to prevent tamers from using 5 or more dragons at the same time, the T2A lands and content, and modern pet stabling and banking. Banks at one time held only gold for those that can remember that far back.

6 - I have not now, nor ever, suggested that this shard should or would remain static forever. Just like any other shard, this shard should evolve over time, but it should do so more slowly, and never involve any of the content that was introduced with, or as a part of AoS...especially item properties, artifacts, Malas, insurance, and peerless bosses. Nor should it include any of the subsequent expansions such as Sam. Empire, Mondain's Legacy or SA.

7 - It is my firm belief that if the devs were to launch a Classic Shard, under the right conditions, that it could be successful if the community were to understand the mistakes that we, as players and citizens of Sosaria, made the first time...and worked to not repeat those same mistakes. At the same time, the devs would have to do the same, and resist the urge to take quick fixes, or to 'moderize' the shard with cookie cutter content the way they did with Siege.


I am glad to see that some people in this thread have strong opinions on what they think UO was, is, and could be. I am no exception to that. If I offended anyone in this thread, I apologize. I think that we all have our ideas of what we would want out of a Classic Shard, but I think that we can all agree that even if we didn't get everything we wanted...for example, if the Classic Shard was a Post UO:R but Pre-AoS shard...that it would still be preferable to the current shards...at least in the short term.

I will check in on this thread as long as it is active and open, but I think I have said all I can really say here without just repeating the same points over and over and over (I know, too late for that rolleyes...but I am sincerely interested in the direction that this topic will take, and what the devs will do with the wealth of information and opinions that have been posted here...if anything.

 

[dum3886]

Maybe ....
even create time periods
i.e: every 2 hrs it switches to free for all... or maybe even 1.5 hr tram/1 hr fel etc.... will keep people on edge ... so night time can now be fel and day time can be tram... so when it becomes night.. all hell breaks loose oOoOOoO

 

[Evlar]

So we Keep noncon PvP, but murderers(reds) would face Skill and stat loss for x- amount of time every death, Loose all blessed, noobie items each death including not limited to spellbooks, runebooks, clothing exc.exc.(everything drops on corpse), Loose the ability to enter towns besides Bucs, and maby 1-2 other towns. Just that would put PKing into check, and only the best players would be PK's for the most part.

The "best" PK's (and thieves) as I remember them, were actually quality players, who showed great skill in their gameplay. They only bothered to attack someone who would give them a good challenge. Some of my most memorable moments in UO were against such players. Either beating one, or losing to one. There was nothing personal, we were playing a game and enjoying the challenge. Simply put, such players were good sports. There was no grief, no name calling (unless it was in a role-playing, non-offensive manner). More often than not, it wasn't about "to the victor goes the spoils" (looting), it was about the pride in the victory, acceptance of defeat.

The problem was (and actually still is) in the "gank squads" and the "I'm tough, I can kill every newbie, crafter, miner, lumberjack I see" types. I could never understand the "thrill" anyone could get from one or two hit killing a miner.

The former were never a problem. The latter most certainly were. The biggest challenge, is realistically coming up with a solution to curtail the activity of the latter. Get that right and you've got the balance of the game right.

To me, the solution to the latter comes from the community itself. Vigilance of the players (and hopefully, GM's) to make the message clear, that griefers, those who's sole intent is to spoil the enjoyment of others, will not be tolerated.

I can't think of the best solutions that would work on EA/Mythic servers unfortunately. However, there are lessons to be learned by how griefers are policed on some of the player run servers.

I wouldn't mind a more strictly enforced system, a bit like the moderation on a game forum where I moderate. People report posts that step over the line. We respond to them. First with a warning. Secondly with temporary bans. If they still persist in ruining everyone else's enjoyment, we perma-ban/IP ban them.

We also get serial-reporters, those in UO who are often referred to as "whiners", those who (for lack of a better phrase) cry wolf. They in turn can be warned, temporarily banned, then eventially perma-banned/IP banned, for frivolous reporting, because they are no better than the "griefers".

Ultimately though, it depends on the quality and consistency of the moderators, or in UO's case, the GM's.

Sadly, I have little faith in EA/Mythic's ability to curtail griefing and cheating, simply because (as we often see good examples in these very forums), they have rules, in writing, yet there's rampant cheating in every corner of the current game. Yes they have much publicised "purges" from time to time, but things always slacken. You have to start as you mean to go on. When you start to get lax, you make a rod for your own back.

I liked the idea of seers or councillors, who were there to help players. Unfortunately the system was abused. There's no reason why the "concept" and purpose couldn't return though.

The role of seer or councillor, could be one that's rewarded to experienced players, nominated by the community. The "incentive" would be that those players who were also seers/councillors, got to play the game for free. They get no special "buttons", they get no special "powers". They have a designated area (or building, like the councillor halls still knocking around) where they can go within the game world (i.e. - where they can't be killed), where players can meet them and ask questions. They can be there for players who have issues in the game, who don't understand game mechanics, who have a potential problem with another player, or simply to help answer questions about the game in general.

 

[Evlar]

We are involved because we want a Classic Shard free of AOS. We want the skill-based game back, but without the constant fun wrecking PKing.

For the reasons I've mentioned in my above post.

 

[Evlar]

Even though I said I would not participate in this discussion, I feel it necessary to clarify some things I have posted here in this thread because some of the things I have said, and ideas I have presented, are being purposefully misrepresented. I am not offering anything new to do the discussion with these remarks:

1 - I am totally against a Classic Shard that includes Trammel in any form. If there will be a Trammel option, either on a seperate server, or via facets, then it is my opinion that a Classic Shard will fail in the long term because players will become bored.

2 - Perma-death. This was thrown out as a last resort option. Many posting here have tried to make it sound like I was suggesting that the moment you turn red and are killed, that your character is gone. That's never what I said, never what I implied, and never what I intended. Those believe that I was implying that are mistaken.

3 - It is my firm belief that, based on the past, a single facet Classic Shard that has nothing in place to curtail rampant PKing beyond the methods that were already employed by the devs in the past will become as empty as Fel is on any existing shard in a very short period of time.

4 - I have advocated for both reds and blues on this thread, and others, because above all, I believe the mistake made with Trammel was that it separated the population...which in the end, greatly lessened the immersion and community of the game.

5 - It is my preference that a Classic Shard should start from day 1, with all necessary bug fixes in place. In addition to bug fixes, certain features that were added to the game before Pub 16 should be evaluated and potentially added to the game. Those included but are not limited to: House security including lock downs and friends/owners lists, control slots for pets to prevent tamers from using 5 or more dragons at the same time, the T2A lands and content, and modern pet stabling and banking. Banks at one time held only gold for those that can remember that far back.

6 - I have not now, nor ever, suggested that this shard should or would remain static forever. Just like any other shard, this shard should evolve over time, but it should do so more slowly, and never involve any of the content that was introduced with, or as a part of AoS...especially item properties, artifacts, Malas, insurance, and peerless bosses. Nor should it include any of the subsequent expansions such as Sam. Empire, Mondain's Legacy or SA.

7 - It is my firm belief that if the devs were to launch a Classic Shard, under the right conditions, that it could be successful if the community were to understand the mistakes that we, as players and citizens of Sosaria, made the first time...and worked to not repeat those same mistakes. At the same time, the devs would have to do the same, and resist the urge to take quick fixes, or to 'moderize' the shard with cookie cutter content the way they did with Siege.


I am glad to see that some people in this thread have strong opinions on what they think UO was, is, and could be. I am no exception to that. If I offended anyone in this thread, I apologize. I think that we all have our ideas of what we would want out of a Classic Shard, but I think that we can all agree that even if we didn't get everything we wanted...for example, if the Classic Shard was a Post UO:R but Pre-AoS shard...that it would still be preferable to the current shards...at least in the short term.

I will check in on this thread as long as it is active and open, but I think I have said all I can really say here without just repeating the same points over and over and over (I know, too late for that rolleyes...but I am sincerely interested in the direction that this topic will take, and what the devs will do with the wealth of information and opinions that have been posted here...if anything.

I share your interest, your frustration and your hopes.

A carrot has been dangled. Many have jumped to grab it from many angles and points of view.

If we can debate the possibility sensibly, agree to disagree on points/opinions we don't necessarily share, whilst also offering compromise, then the more chance a "classic" shard has of becoming reality.

If we pull holes in each others opinion, start bickering and name calling, what else is this thread than an out of place "UO Spiels N Rants" thread?

We're all here because we love (or perhaps more correctly loved?) the game. We all have that in common. Does anyone honestly believe that the Devs will take any serious notice of a fractured, splintered "debate"?

Anyway, a few thoughts there. I shall quietly withdraw once more

 

[Guido_LS]

It's just a game buddy, stop acting like its life or death if a classic server comes up, we've been waiting for a classic server for years, thousands of us.

P K B... and with a post count of 2, it's hard to take seriously anything you post, since you don't seem to be a member of either the UO community nor the Stratics community.

Also, do you know how many private servers are running on the old ruleset, servers that host thousands of players, if they can do it, a giant company like EA can do it.

Nope, nor do I care. There was a time here on Stratics that it was against the rules to even mention them in any context other than as deco tool, and even that was iffy. That EA doesn't enforce their ToS and go after the private servers is their issue. But surely you can't believe that throwing what are, for all intents and purposes, illegal servers, in the face of the Devs is going to buy you any credibility. My response would be, and is, if they are so great, well, the door swings both ways.

WHINING QUITERS- The only whiners were the ones that complained about getting UO changed into a more Blue Friendly game.

And you're the one that wants something for nothing now. You voted your conscience, and quit. You let your dollar speak. If you want it to speak again, put up, like those of us that haven't quit have.

 

[Unsatisfied]

P K B... and with a post count of 2, it's hard to take seriously anything you post, since you don't seem to be a member of either the UO community nor the Stratics community.

Two posts means he's a member of the stratics community now. So sorry mate but he gets a say, and should be taken seriously. Same as everyone else on here.

 

[Santa Claus]

We take anyone seriously?

I still would give reds with over 100 kills permadeath as penalty, though would also give them a special title and put them in some memorable book of notorious criminals.

 

[Guido_LS]

Two posts means he's a member of the stratics community now. So sorry mate but he gets a say, and should be taken seriously. Same as everyone else on here.

He posted that 1000's of people would come back - there are currently 167 votes that have been cast on the classic server poll. You'll forgive me if I don't take his numbers, and therefor, the root of his post, seriously.

Show me 1000 votes (which, by current estimates, still wouldn't equal 1% of the subscriber base) and I might think differently. Until that point, it's hot air.

And it still doesn't deflect the fact that this is still just a giant **** tease. But let's divide the community a bit more, shall we?

 

[Cardell]

He posted that 1000's of people would come back - there are currently 167 votes that have been cast on the classic server poll. You'll forgive me if I don't take his numbers, and therefor, the root of his post, seriously.

Show me 1000 votes (which, by current estimates, still wouldn't equal 1% of the subscriber base) and I might think differently. Until that point, it's hot air.

And it still doesn't deflect the fact that this is still just a giant **** tease. But let's divide the community a bit more, shall we?

I think you should also take into consideration that most people don't waste their time bickering on forums like we do. And also that most of the people who most certainly would play are not part of the community. They are folks who played in the past and have moved on for what ever reason.

 

[Unsatisfied]

He posted that 1000's of people would come back - there are currently 167 votes that have been cast on the classic server poll. You'll forgive me if I don't take his numbers, and therefor, the root of his post, seriously.

Like Cardell said only a very small portion of players even post on forums, and on top of that even if they did most the free shard players wont know about this yet, like the uostratics boards you cant advertise other games/servers on these shards. If they do know about it, much like you a lot of them believe its a giant tease and wont waste their time because they dont believe it will happen. So no your not going to see 1000 votes.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

A question for the mods/admins here:

If I were to create a URL that contained an online petition and hosted a PHP message board that focused around a Classic Shard and discussion of that topic, would links to said URL be removed from posts here?

I would not want to take away traffic from Stratics, but I feel that this topic, and this debate, deserves more attention than it gets here and elsewhere.

I also would not want to violate any rules here by linking to or mentioning what could be taken as a competing site.