Stygian Abyss : this is REALLY disappointing

[popps]

Ulitma Online was created with the freedom to become just about anything you want. Catering too alot of play styles. I don't think I have ever seen anything about catering to pessimistic comments.

So now constructive criticism becomes pessimistic comments ?

I see.......

Well, I can understand that to some, yesmen people are more convenient than voices who chant out of the choir but, as I see it, criticism can help seeing things that were oversawn, it offers a different perspective which may help get something actually bettered.

Since I love the game (I would not be still playing it still when it is in a status where I hate many aspects of it if I didn't...), my posts all tend to find that pattern of changes which can try to deal with what I see as the most crucial aspects of it.

The game needs more brand new players. It has been needing this for a long time but this does not happen.

My take, is that one of the aspects which puts down perspective new players who initially try it out, but then back off seeing the quest as too much up hill climbing and too much time consuming for their time at hand or liking, is the huge GAP between the the "Haves" and the "Haves Not" of the game.

This is why I fight changes which make the "Haves" get to have even more and the "Haves Not" struggle even more to catch up.

It has nothing to do with not having and wanting stuff on a silver platter "per se", it has entirely to deal with the fact that good, challenging PvP needs PLAYERS, and the more the better, all being at the same level of gear, armor, scrolled skills, in order for the game to be truly challenging as PvP goes.

Having a uber suit makes it easy to win a fight versus someone who cannot be a match.

Is that a fun fight ?

I don't think so.

Hence, if people wants to have fun and challenging PvP, I think they MUST ACCEPT the idea that players should catch up with them and cover the GAP in a reasonable time.

I hear talks and claims of people who said it took them years to get to where they are.

Well, the problem is that most likely a good chunk of the new players will just quit the game after they realize how long it takes to cover the gap to be effective in PvP, truly, and migrate to other games where they can be top matches in a lesser time.

And when the game looses subscriptions, we all loose because less revenues means less resources to bring new content to the game.

So, in the end, while I can understand the reluctancy of those at the top wanting to maintain their privileges, from the developers' point of view letting these privileges stay untouched does not seem a very good idea for the best sake of the game.

It is much better if they hurt those privileges a little at a time and help those lower base players to catch up and cover that GAP to ensure a more challenging and fun to play PvP.

That's at least how I see it.

 

[popps]

Popps, if you are going to argue something, make sure your facts are correct (they are definitely NOT). 105's are still only available in Fel. Not say that is good or bad, but it is a fact none the less.

Sorry, I recently returned to the game after a while away and to catch up with all changes it takes time.....

From the UOForums a post of Regine_EAMythic (http://www.uoforums.com/uo-general-discussion/58025-champ-spawn-pub-58-fixes-and-q-and-a.html)

"As the RNG caused the drop rate in Trammel to be extremely low, we no longer perform the 105 roll in that ruleset. So whenever it is determined that a scroll would be given in Trammel, a SoT automatically is. This change has effectively evened out the overall SoT drop on both facets.

"

This was Publish 58 earlier this year.

So, 105s were in Trammel, then they stopped, and the Scroll Binders change needs to bring them back there, this time along with 110s and 115s to make the new addition truly effective. And, I add, also along with +5, +10, +15 and +20 stat scrolls leaving only as exclusive of Felucca the 120s and the +25 stat scrolls.

This way, Scroll Binders will really be a great and working new addition to the game to help cover up that GAP between the "haves" and the "haves not" of the game, at least a bit.

 

[Connor_Graham]

So, 105s were in Trammel, then they stopped,

No, they weren't. The ROLL for a 105 was part of the SoT drop equation, but no 105's actually dropped. As has already been said several times now, get your facts straight before you start arguments based on them. You've had your foot in your mouth so many times in the past 2 days you could use your shoelaces as dental floss.

 

[Connor_Graham]

No, organizing seems NOT possible. If it ever was, it would HAVE happened over the years but it has not.

Really? Then where did the past and current guilds come from? The guild fairy?

I'd still like to see a response to this since ol' pessimist popps refused to respond to it. It's probably too much logic for him to take all at once.

 

[Brak]

Nope, they're not that at all.

They're a way to give lower powerscrolls some kind of value rather than leave them scattered all over the floor at champ spots.

With the recent changes to ghost behaviour at champ spawn locations many shards are now finding it much easier to successfully complete a champ, though they might have to employ tactics like slipping all the scrolls to a stealther who goes out the long way round rather than using the gate to star room.

There's an easier way, just eliminate the 5's, 10's and 15's and make it so only 20's drop

My only concern is that for those that only want 10's or 15's will find it harder to get them for a decent price...

 

[popps]

There's an easier way, just eliminate the 5's, 10's and 15's and make it so only 20's drop

My only concern is that for those that only want 10's or 15's will find it harder to get them for a decent price...

Since newer players tend to hang around Trammel while they train up, it would make sense to me to have 105s, 110s and 115s spawn in Trammel along with 5s, 10s, 15s and 20s and leave for felucca only the 120s and +25s........

So, new players training up will be able to hunt their lower skill and go from there.

 

[Ailish]

You know Popps ... I MIGHT concede to having 105's in Tram (but remember that would reduce by half the SOT drop rate) if this change did not go in, but the others - absolutely not.

 

[Tina Small]

Ailish, for some of us that seem to have "cursed" characters, halving the SoT drop rate whether in Fel or Tram wouldn't make a bit of difference. We'd still get NOTHING.

LOL

 

[Ailish]

HAHA! Tell me about it! I get about one every 5 spawns :<

And if I am *really* lucky, I get 2-3 105's first!!!

 

[calibek]

Oh! I see where there's confusion now.

It actually works *exactly* as you're requesting, already (Sakkarah is one step ahead of you!)

Skill Power Scrolls
105's can be combined to make 110's
110's can be combined to make 115's
115's can be combined to make 120's

Stat Power Scrolls
+5's can be combined to make +10's
+10's can be combined to make +15's
+15's can be combined to make +20's
+20's can be combined to make +25's

Scrolls of Transcedence
Can have scrolls of the same skill combined to a given level

Additionally, individual binders of the same type can be combined. So say you find a scroll binder with (3) 105 Magery on one vendor, and (4) 105 Magery on another - you can combine them into a (7) Magery, and then find some more magery powerscrolls until you create a 110.

I got that part of combining scrolls.

The REAL question though is, are 110s and 115s going to be made spawning in Trammel then ?

To my knowledge, as of now only 105s spawn in Trammel and unless you make at least also 110s and 115s spawn in Trammel the Scroll binders change will not be of much use to the general public since the Felucca spawns will still be off limits for many......

Only if you allow 110s and 115s to spawn in Trammel as well as +5,10,15 and 20 Stat scrolls THEN the Scroll binders will indeed become that great a change they have the potential to be.

Why should they be put in trammel?

They were put in Fel for a reason...risk vs. reward...you want them that bad go to fel and do the spawns

 

[Nystul]

 

[FuzZ]

What are you spending all your time in trammel doing? Why dont you have the gold to buy the 20's?


20's should be expensive, theyre the most widely sought after items in the game. Just because you dont want to go to fel in a pvp game doesnt mean they should be handed to you

 

[thelust6]

Originally Posted by Viper09
And if powerscrolls do get introduced in tram zones, they will have the option to turn their useless powerscrolls into something more useful.

Just what would the unique (hard to obtain) reward for risking completing a champion spawn in Fellucia be if powerscrolls were available in trammel facets? 1/6 skulls for a harrower? HmMz...?
I'm all for scroll binders though! They sound kool x

 

[popps]

Why should they be put in trammel?

They were put in Fel for a reason...risk vs. reward...you want them that bad go to fel and do the spawns

There is no risk or hardly any involved for the Zerg Guilds who monopolize the spawns.

They run Champ spawns at free will and use them as a source of great income to become even more powerfull and harder to ge ousted.

Risk vs. reward ?

Please..................

The risk is only for the outsiders not for those who are there and monopolize the areas.
They face hardly any risk.

OUt of 10 spawns they run they run all 10 at ease and protecting each other get even the extra scrolls for extra income.

And now, thanking to the courtesy of the developers they will ALSO cash in from the minor scrolls which were a total waste before.

So, they will get even richer and will have more wealth to become more powerfull to oust others more easily away from the spawns.

Yeah, right......

 

[popps]

What are you spending all your time in trammel doing? Why dont you have the gold to buy the 20's?


20's should be expensive, theyre the most widely sought after items in the game. Just because you dont want to go to fel in a pvp game doesnt mean they should be handed to you

Powerscrolls are expensive and become a problem for entrying players only because over the years this has been allowed.

Personally, I think this as damn wrong.

Because the players playing in felucca can play in trammel also (and do their PvM at free will) but many of those playing in trammel are cut out from important items in the game.

This is wrong, and, to my opinion, bad design.

PvP should be supported in OTHER ways (and Factions are one of those great ways), certainly cutting out a great chunk of players from items vital to game play like Powerscrolls is NOT a good way to sponsor PvP, IMHO.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Because the players playing in felucca can play in trammel also (and do their PvM at free will) but many of those playing in trammel are cut out from important items in the game.

Not one single person in Tram is cut off from anything in Fel. Not one. Anyone can put a group together and go do a champ spawn. This is the 2nd most ignorant statement I've ever seen here on Stratics. Funny that the 1st was also something said by you.

 

[Ailish]

PvM only requires GM skill.

PvP is more than gate junkies. Just like any war, there needs to be something desirable to fight FOR. Powerscrolls is it. That is not going to change. The Dev's are not going to magically give PvPers some different "desirable" because the same thing would happen - for an item to be desirable enough to fight over, it has to be desirable by EVERYONE and have the ability to give the fighters and income (because fighting is NOT cheap). Equally, they are NOT going to take away the current "desirables".

 

[Connor_Graham]

PvM only requires GM skill.

Heh, not the PvM that I do. GM skill would have you dead.

 

[thelust6]

Oh I understand what you mean popps, adding scrolls to Trammel spawns would provide a quick and easy? fix to the issue but at the same time remove the point of going to Fellucia to complete a spawn, PvP is a lot of fun, I much prefer it to PvM but if I was looking to gather scrolls for my character and I had the choice of taking the easy or the difficult option (Trammel/Fellucia champion spawn) I'd prolly champ in Trammel (I just died a bit inside) and I imagine many other players would reach the same conclusion and do the same, thus removing players from a competetive game dynamic that is tons of fun (and frustration!) So in all keep em in Fellucia! (please) :*) x

 

[thelust6]

Popps another point is that not all shards have Zerg guilds dominating champion spawns, I'd certainly say on Europa (main shard/played on Drachenfels years and years ago) it's got a fairly high population, now when I check round most Champion spawns in Fellucia Dungeons, only Despise and Destard is done on a regular basis, this is where a lot of the competetive PvP action goes on (Despise) for hold over the spawn, whilst smaller groups (mini-zerg hybrid? ) gather and complete them in T2A, so focusing on Europa allowing Trammel facet champion spawns to drop scrolls isn't necessary at all in my opinion because there really is enough availability in Fellucia to do them, I'd definetley say the changes to route out ghost cams had a 100% positive effect towards this, don't really find hordes of reds running into the area as soon as the champs third/fourth tier or popped.

 

[popps]

Not one single person in Tram is cut off from anything in Fel. Not one. Anyone can put a group together and go do a champ spawn. This is the 2nd most ignorant statement I've ever seen here on Stratics. Funny that the 1st was also something said by you.

Let's divide the UO population in 2 sets for the sake of explaining the argument.

The players of Felucca who want to PvP and the players of Trammel who do NOT want to PvP, whatever their reasons may be.

Now, while the players in felucca can effectively play felucca AND Trammel alike, those in Trammel can only play there because, we said that in the premises, they do NOT want to engage in consensual PvP.

Now, Powerscrolls are a vital item to the game. That is a fact.

We so have BY DESIGN CHOICE (and I need to add a poor design choice....) a great chunk of players CUT OUT from items vital to game play.

On the contrary, those playing felucca can play also Trammel without an inch of a problem and do their PvM as they may wish.

I can understand the need to promote PvP in the game but personally, I find that using a vital item to game play such as powerscroll is a very questionable design choice.

Very questionable.

PvP should be promoted in other ways, Factions are a great example of a correct way to do it. Using items vital to game play as powerscrolls are I personally see it as a poor choice and, in bad taste.

It is called after all "consensual" PvP for a reason but when items vital to game play are held hostage the word consensual looses much of its value, doesn't it ?

This is why it is about time that powerscrolls are brought to Trammel and OTHER, better ways are found to promote PvP which do NOT include items vital to gameplay.

That's my opinion.

 

[popps]

Oh I understand what you mean popps, adding scrolls to Trammel spawns would provide a quick and easy? fix to the issue but at the same time remove the point of going to Fellucia to complete a spawn

Not necessarily.

Say that in Trammel are added all minor scrolls with the exception of 120s and +25s which remain in Felucca.

Since trying to make a 120 using Scroll binders will take time as quite a few scrolls are needed, hunting in felucca would still be the fastest way to a 120.

Trammel would be like a quite longer route but those who wish 120 faster will still need to use Felucca.

But at least, items vital to game play would not be held hostage and players cut out from them. It will be more convenient to hunt them in felucca, but at least players will have an alternate option albeit a rather longer way to get to a 120.

I do not see it as fair that PvPers can do their Peerless and in general enjoy the whole content of the game at free will but that non PvPers are instead cut out from items so vital to game playing.

This is not right. Not correct at all, IMHO and overall it does not help the game as it creates upset players over it.

Other ways need be explored to support PvP in Ultima Online and never should be involved items as vital to game playing, IMHO.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Using your logic, the PvP'rs that have no interest in PvM should have all of the artifacts that are only available in the Tram ruleset as PvP rewards so they don't have to PvM, and there are a lot of these players. There are many artifacts that are needed to compete in PvP, and are vital to your success at it.

Not wanting to do something is not the same as being excluded from it. Anyone can go and PvP if they want to, no one is standing at the gate telling them they're not allowed in.

 

[popps]

Using your logic, the PvP'rs that have no interest in PvM should have all of the artifacts that are only available in the Tram ruleset as PvP rewards so they don't have to PvM, and there are a lot of these players. There are many artifacts that are needed to compete in PvP, and are vital to your success at it.

I am afraid there is no artifact in the game that can EVER be as vital to game playing as a Powerscroll.

Especially, that now with imbuing one can put any mod on any item at will.

Sorry, but in the game I cannot think of any item as vital to game playing as powerscrolls are and it is outrageous, as I see it, that players are cut out from them by design choice.

PvP is certainly important, and it is important that it is supported but helding hostage items vital to game play preventing players from getting them through game play is simply not the right way to go.

There should be other ways, more linear and correct like Factions for example, to support "consensual" PvP in this game.

Not wanting to do something is not the same as being excluded from it. Anyone can go and PvP if they want to, no one is standing at the gate telling them they're not allowed in.

I am sorry, but forcing someone to engage into "consensual" PvP because items vital to game play are involved just diminishes the whole meaning of the word "consensual".

It is really in bad taste, IMHO and better ways to support PvP should be used, certainly, none that involves items so vital to game playing.

Today we have a chance with Scroll binders to partially correct this wrong but that necessarily involves adding Powerscroll drops to Trammel. As I said, 120s and +25s can remain exclusive of Felucca but all of the minor ones should definately be added to the spawns in Trammel.

I sincerely hope that the Developers will end this outrage and make items as vital to game play as Powerscrolls are, no longer precluded to a vast majority of players as it has been for too many years now.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Sorry, but in the game I cannot think of any item as vital to game playing as powerscrolls are and it is outrageous, as I see it, that players are cut out from them by design choice.

Nobody is excluded from getting PS's. As I already said, NOT WANTING TO DO SOMETHING IS NOT THE SAME AS BEING EXCLUDED FROM IT. No one is preventing anyone from going and getting their own PS's. Hell, now you can go to Fel and get them without having to PvP, only PvM, since ghost cams are gone. Sure, some times you'll get raided, but some times you won't. The times you do just run away and come back later.

Problem solved.

I am sorry, but forcing someone to engage into "consensual" PvP because items vital to game play are involved just diminishes the whole meaning of the word "consensual".

As for this, you don't have to PvP to get PS's. You can PvM in Doom or Peerless, get artifacts from them, then sell them for gold or trade them for the PS you want. Once again....

Problem solved.

 

[Tina Small]

I sincerely hope that the Developers will end this outrage and make items as vital to game play as Powerscrolls are, no longer precluded to a vast majority of players as it has been for too many years now.

Popps, I have to disagree with this statement. If you do not want to go to Fel to get the power scrolls yourself, you have always had the option to stay in the safety of Trammel and make enough gold to buy the scrolls from those who did go to Fel or from the merchants who bought them from the Fel residents and repriced them to get their own cut of the profits.

Has it ever occurred to you that some of the outrageous prices you may have seen were caused by middlemen trying to get their share of profits---folks who perhaps never set foot in Fel?

 

[popps]

Popps, I have to disagree with this statement. If you do not want to go to Fel to get the power scrolls yourself, you have always had the option to stay in the safety of Trammel and make enough gold to buy the scrolls from those who did go to Fel or from the merchants who bought them from the Fel residents and repriced them to get their own cut of the profits.

Has it ever occurred to you that some of the outrageous prices you may have seen were caused by middlemen trying to get their share of profits---folks who perhaps never set foot in Fel?

Forcing players to engage in activities against their will because items vital to game play are involved is NOT proper.

PvP should be promoted through other, better ways but certainly not involving any item vital to game play as Power scrolls are.

Otherwise, the word "consensual" looses its meaning, entirely.

For too many years this outrage has been allowed to go on, I hope it is time for a change.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Forcing players to engage in activities against their will because items vital to game play are involved is NOT proper.

PvP should be promoted through other, better ways but certainly not involving any item vital to game play as Power scrolls are.

Otherwise, the word "consensual" looses its meaning, entirely.

For too many years this outrage has been allowed to go on, I hope it is time for a change.

Wow. Tell me, is your head thick enough to play pro football without a helmet?

No one is forcing anyone to do anything. PS's can be obtained without having to set foot in Fel, as has been explained by countless people in this thread.

Just to end this little tirade of the muleheaded, the Devs have already clearly stated that PS's WILL NOT be put in Tram. Ever. So go ahead and give up now, because all you're doing is arguing with the wall.

 

[Tina Small]

popps, I'll add my reply to the chorus singing the never-ending refrain: No one is forcing you to go to Fel to PvP to obtain power scrolls.

Saying that is about as ridiculous as saying that you're forced to do peerless if you want to obtain certain regs for crafting.

Or saying that you must mine if you want gems or granite or blackrock.

Or saying that you must make a crafter character if you want to keep your gear in good repair.

Or saying that you must make a fletcher if you want your archer to have ammo to use.

Or saying that you must make a thief if you want to decorate your house with various stealable deco items.

Do you complain about all these other things in the game that you might have no interest in doing but that you are (presumably) glad someone else does so you can purchase the fruits of their labors?

 

[popps]

popps, I'll add my reply to the chorus singing the never-ending refrain: No one is forcing you to go to Fel to PvP to obtain power scrolls.

Saying that is about as ridiculous as saying that you're forced to do peerless if you want to obtain certain regs for crafting.

Or saying that you must mine if you want gems or granite or blackrock.

Or saying that you must make a crafter character if you want to keep your gear in good repair.

Or saying that you must make a fletcher if you want your archer to have ammo to use.

Or saying that you must make a thief if you want to decorate your house with various stealable deco items.

Do you complain about all these other things in the game that you might have no interest in doing but that you are (presumably) glad someone else does so you can purchase the fruits of their labors?

It is not the same as none of those activities require or have a high risk of involving "consensual" PvP.

So, a player may choose or not to get in those activities without having to touch the "consensual" PvP issue.

Powerscrolls instead, are deep at the "consensual" PvP issue.

A player not wanting to give in to "consensual" PvP but wanting to earn one's own scrolls simply cannot.

It is not possible.

Either one has to force oneself against one's own will and go to Felucca or do without powerscrolls or have to pay outrageous amounts because items vital to game play were precluded to players not interested in "consensual" PvP to earn them on their own.

To me, this is not proper.

 

[Connor_Graham]

A player not wanting to give in to "consensual" PvP but wanting to earn one's own scrolls simply cannot.

It is not possible.

This is 1000% incorrect. You now have the opportunity to go to Fel and complete champs without being raided. Ghost cams are gone so the only thing that gave the zerg guilds the opportunity to guard all of the champs is gone. You can now go to Fel and complete a spawn with a good possiblity of not being raided, thus getting your PS's without having to participate in PvP.

It is possible. Maybe not for you, but for the other 99,999 UO players it is. I guess you're just **** out of luck.

 

[Ailish]

I am afraid there is no artifact in the game that can EVER be as vital to game playing as a Powerscroll.

EXCELLENT! I am glad you feel that way! I will trade you all power and stat scrolls for ALL Doom, ML and SA artifacts. From here on out, you get all the scrolls you want, but if you want a Crimmy, a Totem of Void, or an Ornament of the Magician, you will have to go to Fel to get them! I like it!

If factions had *real*, *tangible*, PROFITABLE, rewards, they would be much more populated than they are. As much as I enjoy the Faction system, the fact is, it does not provide an appropriate reward to fight over.

 

[popps]

This is 1000% incorrect. You now have the opportunity to go to Fel and complete champs without being raided. Ghost cams are gone so the only thing that gave the zerg guilds the opportunity to guard all of the champs is gone. You can now go to Fel and complete a spawn with a good possiblity of not being raided, thus getting your PS's without having to participate in PvP.

It is possible. Maybe not for you, but for the other 99,999 UO players it is. I guess you're just **** out of luck.

If that is the case, then what is the point to oppose the spawn of powerscrolls, at least the minor ones below 120 and +25 also to Trammel ?

I mean, if no "consensual" PvP is required or forced upon players to earn those items vital to game play on their own then there should not be any problem with that......

 

[Tina Small]

Hmmm, popps, I'm not big on going to Fel champ spawns. But I have done it. And guess what? Of the times I've gone on several shards, we have been raided ONE time.

ONE TIME.

I'm sure many others have had similar experiences. Play smart, pick remote spawn areas and avoid the evening and weekend peak times for your shard, and you very likely won't have to PvP at all many of the times you go. Or go long enough to get some 105s and leave if it's making you feel uneasy being there.

If I'm counting correctly, I think there are currently 17 champ spawns under the Fel ruleset (more if you play in Siege). Take a look at the bottom portion of the list here and you'll see where they are located and where the access/exit points are:
http://uo.stratics.com/php-bin/show_content.php?content=30489.

There is additional useful info about champ spawns here: http://uo.stratics.com/php-bin/show_content.php?content=30488.

 

[Storm]

just wondering why are not fel and tramel mirror images of each other in other words same spawns same champs same items etc would not this solve this problem then everyone would have what they wanted... the pvpers would have there zone and the trams would have theres ?

The only reason I see to have it the way it is now is to get people from tram to fel and visa versa ! why if these types dont want to play together why make it so its needed?

 

[Connor_Graham]

If that is the case, then what is the point to oppose the spawn of powerscrolls, at least the minor ones below 120 and +25 also to Trammel ?

I mean, if no "consensual" PvP is required or forced upon players to earn those items vital to game play on their own then there should not be any problem with that......

Except for the fact that PS's are the ONLY revenue item in Fel . There is no other reward item available there. According to you, everyone that plays in Fel should have no opportunity to make gold from their preferred playstyle, and before you start, no, insurance gold is not enough to make a UO living from. Additionally, having the chance to not get raided and removing it entirely are not the same thing.

 

[Maplestone]

Except for the fact that PS's are the ONLY revenue item in Fel . There is no other reward item available there.

No runics? No crimsons? That's odd.

*winces, knowing I know better than to get involved in this*

 

[Storm]

ok hmmm I guess the answer to my question is fel would be almost completly dead if you did that ! do you think tramel would die out? I dont ... the only reason not to do it the way i stated is the pvpers would not have anyone to kill besides the small crowds they have now and it gets boring killing the same person over and over .... not trying to take sides but the truth is the truth unless someone can point out a reasonable explanation to me...

 

[Brak]

Funny how a thread about SA gets turned into another fel vs trammel bash...

 

[popps]

If factions had *real*, *tangible*, PROFITABLE, rewards, they would be much more populated than they are. As much as I enjoy the Faction system, the fact is, it does not provide an appropriate reward to fight over.

Shouldn't be PvP about proving oneself against someone else's prowess ?

I mean, the reward is winning the fight, ain't it ?

So what will happen of PvP once all players will have become scrolled up or for the most part?

Basing PvP over items not only I see it as not proper especially when these items are so vital to all players' gameplay, but makes PvP tied to the life of that item.

Eventually powerscrolls will no longer be the hot stuff, and PvP will die out if that was the only reason to PvP.

There should be more proper and better ways to promote PvP in the game without involving items necessary to game play.

That's at least how I see it.

 

[Connor_Graham]

That's at least how I see it.

You need a new prescription for your glasses.

 

[popps]

Except for the fact that PS's are the ONLY revenue item in Fel . There is no other reward item available there. According to you, everyone that plays in Fel should have no opportunity to make gold from their preferred playstyle, and before you start, no, insurance gold is not enough to make a UO living from. Additionally, having the chance to not get raided and removing it entirely are not the same thing.

I have yet to find 1 single PvPer over several years of playing who has not also done Doom, Peerless and PvM rewarding activities.

Bottom line is, that those who play Felucca also play Trammel but the same cannot be said for those not engaging in "consensual" PvP, whatever their reasons.

Besides, I did not say take Powerscrolls out of felucca but merely suggested adding the ones below 120 and +25 to Trammel leaving the best one as exclusive to Felucca (120s and +25s that is...).

A compromise.

 

[Tina Small]

Shouldn't be PvP about proving oneself against someone else's prowess ?

I mean, the reward is winning the fight, ain't it ?

So what will happen of PvP once all players will have become scrolled up or for the most part?

Basing PvP over items not only I see it as not proper especially when these items are so vital to all players' gameplay, but makes PvP tied to the life of that item.

Eventually powerscrolls will no longer be the hot stuff, and PvP will die out if that was the only reason to PvP.

There should be more proper and better ways to promote PvP in the game without involving items necessary to game play.

That's at least how I see it.

Popps, your argument might have some merit if UO had some sort of tracking/reporting system to show the end result of all the PvP competitions a character has been. Alas, no such system exists.

The same goes for PvM. Maybe more people would PvM only for the glory of killing a tough monster if there was some way to tell the whole world about. But alas, no such system exists.

So....what systems do we actually have? We have a factions leaderboard that tracks kill points. But it's borked beyond belief and it's far too easy for the unscrupulous incredibly easy to rack up kill points by killing characters on their own alternate accounts.

We have titles associated with champ spawns. However, they are also not designed to really highlight who is the "best of the best" and they are based on killing monsters, not PvPing.

You also have community collection titles. But all they really prove is who has lots of gold and/or lots of time to collect stuff and donate it.

What does that leave us with? On both the PvP and PvM fronts, you're pretty much left with obtaining items (gold, power scrolls, stat scrolls, replicas, uber loot, etc.) to prove your prowess.

You're pretty much stuck with the fact that this is an item-based game, popps. If that doesn't appeal to you in most of the situations you find yourself in, perhaps it's time to move on to a game that does things differently.

 

[JoO]

120 powerscrolls shouldnt be an issue for a new player. They are for min/maxing. I don't want some kind of powerscroll welfare line for new players. The system is fine binders will make it even easier. SLASH THREAD

 

[Surgeries]

I have yet to find 1 single PvPer over several years of playing who has not also done Doom, Peerless and PvM rewarding activities.

Bottom line is, that those who play Felucca also play Trammel but the same cannot be said for those not engaging in "consensual" PvP, whatever their reasons.

Besides, I did not say take Powerscrolls out of felucca but merely suggested adding the ones below 120 and +25 to Trammel leaving the best one as exclusive to Felucca (120s and +25s that is...).

A compromise.

I have.

I had a couple of well known PvPers hunt with me, in my TS channel, doing Peerless.

They didn't enjoy PvM at all, and hardly ever did it...ever. They just went because we had good luck in having Crimson Cinctures drop for our group for some reason. They weren't very good at it (although I am sure they could do some serious damage in PvP) but one of them did get a Crimson Cincture doing a Lady Mel, in Tram.

Your claims are generally baseless, Popps. You use infinitives as if just that mere act makes everything you say true. Most all of your claims can be, and have been disproved, yet you state them like they are Bible fact.

There is much validity to the old adage "You just need to learn how to play the game"...and in your case, it seems to be particularly true...if you catch my drift...if you get my meaning.

In the end, all Power Scrolls will likely be cheaper, if anything, making it easier, not harder, for you to have that "Vital" item you so desperately need to enjoy UO, without having to subject yourself to Non-Consensual PvP, at all.

There are WAY too many people that have already achieved the lofty goal of scrolling out characters without spending real life money on it, or farming 18 hours a day in a Zerg Guild...or any of that stuff.

You just need to have desire, persistence, and don't give up. If your desire is strong enough, you will find a way.

 

[Ailish]

I have yet to find 1 single PvPer over several years of playing who has not also done Doom, Peerless and PvM rewarding activities.

Bottom line is, that those who play Felucca also play Trammel but the same cannot be said for those not engaging in "consensual" PvP, whatever their reasons.

Feluccan's do things in Tram because they don't have another option. I would happily do Doom in Fel, do Travesty in Fel, etc. I did Magencia in Fel, so did all the other Feluccans I know.

Dont give me you POS line about being forced into a playstyle you don't want, because its been happening to me for years. Get the hell over it.

 

[MalagAste]

I think a bunch of you need to take a chill...

First off I do NOT agree with Popps on having scrolls in Tram.

I'm stating fact in saying that since scrolls are controlled by folk in fel with the addition of the scroll binders I sincerely doubt anyone in Tram will ever get the scrolls to complete a binder with 110's 115's or anything else.....

Why? Because why would the fel zerg guilds bother to bring their scrolls to tram and sell lesser scrolls when they can bind them all up in Fel and only sell 120's in Tram? Thus increasing the # of 120's for sale but I'm pretty certain NOT lowering the cost...

So the "average Joe" isn't going to be binding these scrolls and finally getting that 120 they've always dreamed about...

As for going to Fel and yes we are all aware that anyone CAN... except those using a trial account, the young... and anyone who may not have the best pc or connection.

But lets face it... some of us don't go to fel for other reasons.... it's not that we don't like to PvP... I love PvP... it's just that I REFUSE to use hacks... cheats... or illegal 3rd party programs... and I get sick and tired of watching people run away from me on foot at warp speed after I've dismounted them.... Or have them run right through trees and everything else... Or cast on the run...

I also get pretty tired of 20:2 ganks...

As far as the "luring" folk to Fel and Powerscrolls being the only "draw" that fel has..... well thats a huge lie... People go to fel or live in fel because they WANT to PvP... and they like it... Those who regularly are in fel would be there doing what they do whether PS's were available everywhere or NOT... They would be there whether or not there were SoT's.

So anyway for the casual player going to fel sometimes isn't an option. Sure I could go to fel... and occasionally I do... but I don't do spawns while I'm there. I don't have the connection for that would be suicide so what would be the point? Not going to cheat either.

Maybe if they fixed all the illegal program use and cheating... Fel might be an option for more people... and it might be fun and enjoyable... but no one likes to play with a cheater except maybe other cheaters.

 

[Ailish]

I am sorry for being nasty, but I get so SICK of hearing this:

"I should not have to go to Fel to get my goodies, but YOU should have to go to Tram to get yours!"

It is the epitomy of hypocrisy ... and the bad part is most people don't even see it! They think "well, how could you POSSIBLY not like Tram! No one can bother you there! No one can kill you there!

Except the lurers, the gimme gimme's that will butt right into what I am doing, the rude persons who will CUSS ME OUT for trying to be helpful, the scammers, etc. I don't have to deal with those people in Fel. They bug me, I kill them. If they kill me, well then they have earned what they have taken from me. They WORKED for it.

I am happy to let the people who wish to live their lives out in Tram do that. I just wish they were happy to let me live my life out in Fel and concede that each side needs eachother to some extent.

 

[Trebr Drab]

I am happy to let the people who wish to live their lives out in Tram do that.

No you're not. You want them to have to come to Fel so that you can kill them and take what they worked at for some time to get. Or buy it from you.

Talk about hypocrisy.

 

[Ailish]

No, actually, I prefer to fight with experienced PvPers.

I want them to have to buy their scrolls if they do not wish to obtain them on their own the same way I have to buy a Mark of Travesty or Doom Arties if I do not wish to be subjected to Tram playstyle.

Try again?