I just think that everyone should be able to create whatever char they want, and as things are, there is no horrible balance issue. This is UO, not WoW with set classes ya know? I personally don't use any character like the ones that would be effected, the +15 cap would be more than enough for my new char, as I only need +10 to anatomy and +15 to swords, no big whoop but I still think people should be able to just go "You know want... I want a tamer bard with magery and spellweave" and they can do that if they wanna spend the time and money on the items.
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REAL skill should offer a much better bonus than "beefed up" skill level.....
Being able to add a 7th maxed out skill, for example Spellweaving with a 6th Circle, can really boost and a whole lot from one who is limited to 6 skills, 120 but all real....
But we all know that training past 90-100 is the real pain.
There may be a mere 15-20 points difference but THOSE are the hardest to gain in several skills.......
Not any longer when in Stygian Abyss one will be able to custom make pretty much most things..........(a HUGE motivation, IMHO, why REAL skill points should be made more worthy of significative bonuses....).
And so what ?
In the end, what matters is what delivers.
Meaning, that when players take up that 7th or 8th skill over HCI, DCI, DI, LMC, MR etc. it shows to me that indeed, the 7th and 8th skill gives more boost, that added gear over else.......
But the point ain't even this one at all !!
I never said take those skill points items away.
I merely said, add sound, significative and meaningfull bonuses at 100, 105, 110, 115 and 120 REAL level skill so that players would think "heck, I'd rather have REAL skill over beefed up skill points using items...".
Then, if players still prefer to stick with their 7th, 8th, 9th or 10th skill when infact 6 real 102s work better or at least the same, fine with me..........
The logic here should be that REAL skill points IS worthy over beefed up ones using items short-cuts............
I do not see any point in the Developers say that the skill CAP is set to 720 but hey, players can break it at free will using items........
Sorry, but if the skill CAP has been set to 720 then breaking it with work arounds (skill items) should NOT be rewarding.
Those who stick within the set CAP with a 6 x 120 should be prized, not those who break the set limit.
To my opinion, skill items should only work within the 720 CAP, NEVER beyond that and I think it a mistake that they were allowed to work even past the set limit of 720 skill points CAP.
At least, that's how I see it.
Seems and smells like a work-around? If it wasn't intended to 'enhance' your template, don't you think that by now -years later- the Devs would have at least said so?
They haven't, and you're speaking about people who manage to work with skill suits as if they're lazy scripters. To be honest, people who have 800+ skills probably have spent more time evaluating their template and suit than you have simply working up to the base skill that the game allows.
Your original post sounded very respectful, and slowly but surely the posts are becoming more insulting towards anyone who uses skill mods.
We're doing nothing wrong. It's not a hack, cheat, exploit or bug as your tone is beginning to suggest. Some people with viable skill mod suits have worked longer and harder to make their character work than someone who just worked up to 720 and decided that was the end of their template. Skill suits take imagination, planning, piece-swapping and can be an overall pain in the behind. Learning to use a character with one can be more difficult because most of the time you lose other great mods.
I understand, you don't like skill jewelry. You think its unfair people can use jewelry to get the benefits of skills that you decided to work up, despite the fact that you now have jewelry, tali and helm slots that can go towards anything else you want while we are married to what we have.
You want a bonus for being naturally 120. Okay, I hear you, that'd be nice. I'm all for some neutral, neat perk that won't unbalance what is currently balanced.
But don't backhandedly insult the people that use skill mods. Uncool.
so pops cant you play game as made does others game style irk you? those that hunt, spend time, gold, to ubber there toons, with items.
the hunt for very good items is part of game and normal to those that play alot, you play little whine alot!!! balance it yourself !!! dont abuse those then who work there suits toons over a adverage player that doesnt!!
the hunt for very good items is part of game and normal to those that play alot, you play little whine alot!!! balance it yourself !!! dont abuse those then who work there suits toons over a adverage player that doesnt!!
Well, I have a differnt comcept of a CAP.
To me a CAP is a hard limit. Something that is there NOT to be surpassed.
Because of skill items the CAP looks to me, instead, as a joke...........
The way skill items should work is always and no matter what WITHIN the skill CAP, not beyond it......
popps... here's the hard facts about it, in order to get an 8th skill, you have to train it up, there currently is no reall way to get +100 to a skill, the max i think you can get is +85 to necromancy, which you loose almost all your suits mods if you keep it. The thing is, the +skill isn't more powerful than HCI/DCI, ect. if you have those, you can compete with almost all templates out there. and about spell weaving, there are no + bonuses to spell weaving, you still have to train it. Other skills you need atleast 70 to make a "10 skill" template, plus you need items that you sac nearly everything for just to get them all to 100! And you mentioned SA, you do realize those items are temporary? You need to train the skill up first, you need to get the items in order to make it, both items to unravel and the reosurce items to be able to imbule in the first place. Then it's not a 100% chance either from what was explained about it, the more mods, the lower the chance. So, by using SA, you not only trade mods to be able to use another skill, which as someone else has said, lowers your effectiveness as you don't have the NEEDED mods (Yes, they are needed for most templates, there's no arguement around it, atleast 2 of the many mods are needed by one template, weither that be DI, HCI, DCI, SDI, LMC, LRC, MR, Hpr, SR, ect a template will amost always, need atleast two of those mods to be effective, or you're taking a decent hit and handicap.) And if it WAS a work around, why would they let the skill jewels boost you past the skill cap in the FIRST place? It obviously wasn't over looked since they've been used, how long? My new char will have 8 skills, he looses parry, has a very low chiv, 60 pts if i remember, all other skills around 100 except healint and anatomy, which will be 90 healing, 80 anatomy. So I'll need only 2 jewels to make it effective +10 anatomy, +15 swords. Whoopie, that means my class is going to be much stronger than yours isn't it? Truth is, it's not. There's nothing wrong with how things are. You just want bonuses for having the real skill, that's fine, but as i've said before, it can't be anything too powerful, or you'll just cause balance issues that weren't even there to begin with. I think you just want to make it so that everyone runs around 6x120 with these perks that make it so they can destroy anyone with more than 7 skills.
No player should be able to pass the max CAP possible with items currently in the game.
Skill items should ONLY work within the limits of the 720 skill CAP, never beyond.
At that point players could choose whether they want to use real skill or items but all and always not being able to surpass the 720 skill CAP.
That, if a CAP is meant to be a CAP..........
T
TheGrayGhost
Guest
I am semi for this idea. I think all skills should get some perks for having high real skill in it. Some are bashing Taming saying and Adv char token + Skill jewlry = insta 120. The trade off is you miss out on all those extra stable slots. So Taming already has this system in place.
High skill with jewlry = Being a tamer in every way just with less pets.
The rest of the skills need something like this.
Magery = Natural 100 magery gives you 5% LRC, 110 10%, 120 20% lrc.
Necromancy = 100 Necro = 5% LMC, 110 7%, 120 10%.
SW = Just make it so at 120 natural skill you get +1 to your focus while doing an Arcane focus. In the Brit bank pentagram that would be +2 oO.
Those using the jewlry shouldn't be punished for building templates around it by having those templates becoming completely worthless. What should happen is a reward to those that took the time and made the effort to take those skills up. Taming has the Extra table slot rewards, as does Vet and Animal Lore. Adding something like this to the other skills at 100, 110 and 120 wouldn't be an overly hard thing to do. And I think it would be kind of fun.
High skill with jewlry = Being a tamer in every way just with less pets.
The rest of the skills need something like this.
Magery = Natural 100 magery gives you 5% LRC, 110 10%, 120 20% lrc.
Necromancy = 100 Necro = 5% LMC, 110 7%, 120 10%.
SW = Just make it so at 120 natural skill you get +1 to your focus while doing an Arcane focus. In the Brit bank pentagram that would be +2 oO.
Those using the jewlry shouldn't be punished for building templates around it by having those templates becoming completely worthless. What should happen is a reward to those that took the time and made the effort to take those skills up. Taming has the Extra table slot rewards, as does Vet and Animal Lore. Adding something like this to the other skills at 100, 110 and 120 wouldn't be an overly hard thing to do. And I think it would be kind of fun.
Well, the 720 skill points to my knowledge has been indicated as a skill CAP.
To me it means LIMIT, WALL, END OF THE RUN.
Instead, I then see skill items which take beyond this "CAP" and make it more rewarding to bump up skill points putting on items rather than training them when it most hurts, past the 90-100 level.......
I am sorry, but I really cannot see it as right........
Well it's not a hard cap, you can't get real skill above it, but modified skill gets above it, whoopie do, there's a trade off. It's not like it's without limits. Why does it bother you so much? If someone wants too lose bonuses to get bonuses to their skills to make their person playable. Whoopie do dah! this is a sandbox. People play how they want to play. Why do you care so much? Did some 850 skill point tamer kill your parents and leave you for dead in the wilderness and you were raised by wolves with 6x120 skills skill sets and sent back to civilization with the mission to get revenge over those married to their items for some bonus abilities which in no way over power the game?
lol
so everyone for a few years doing this is bad, and you worrying about now not!! only fix on this has been necro/needing points to hold still on suit /or real !! for vamp
skill items changed game,you should have hollered about when happened now cat and bag has dust on it!! live with it
if wasnt playing then well have no reason to complain, play game enjoy!!
so everyone for a few years doing this is bad, and you worrying about now not!! only fix on this has been necro/needing points to hold still on suit /or real !! for vamp
skill items changed game,you should have hollered about when happened now cat and bag has dust on it!! live with it
if wasnt playing then well have no reason to complain, play game enjoy!!
C
Connor_Graham
Guest
And here we have the root of the entire thing. Yet another "I want but don't want to work for it, so just give it to me or take it away from everyone else" thread.
Why am I not surprised?
It doesn't cost a dime to do the Minotaur quest in Heartwood. Anyone can do it, and can do it very easily. Try putting some effort in and you might be surprised that you don't actually need to have everything in the game handed to you on a silver platter.
Sorry, but pumping up taming skills with items DOES give extra stable slots.
Infact, one can pump up points with items, stable pets and then take off items and still keep pets in the stables........
Thanks but no. I htink that having put effort and time into training up skills when it most hurts, past the 90-100 level and up to 120 should give sound and significative bonuses not merely eye candy.......
I am not saying they should be made worthless, but neither better as they are now (more succesfull, powerfull, victorious) than those 6 x 120 REAL skill which should instead be those prized......
F
Fink
Guest
I think Konge pretty much nailed it.
Every choice comes with its own trade-off, and using +skill items robs you of flexibility and other mods that would be more useful. It's an item-based game and these are the checks and balances.
"Real" skill can be trained up in a matter of days, if not hours in most cases. There's little work or dedication required to turn out some of the most effective templates. Finding the right items, however can take months and millions. Yes, with Imbuing it will be easier to get the particular item you want, it'll just be incredibly expensive and it will wear out. Again, checks and balances.
The over-arching balance factor is that these items or skills are available to everyone as they choose. Personally I value the breadth of choice within this game. It's part of the appeal of UO for me, has been since the very beginning.
Every choice comes with its own trade-off, and using +skill items robs you of flexibility and other mods that would be more useful. It's an item-based game and these are the checks and balances.
"Real" skill can be trained up in a matter of days, if not hours in most cases. There's little work or dedication required to turn out some of the most effective templates. Finding the right items, however can take months and millions. Yes, with Imbuing it will be easier to get the particular item you want, it'll just be incredibly expensive and it will wear out. Again, checks and balances.
The over-arching balance factor is that these items or skills are available to everyone as they choose. Personally I value the breadth of choice within this game. It's part of the appeal of UO for me, has been since the very beginning.
Problem is, that so far the combination was up to the RNG putting mods together.
With Stygian Abyss, now, players will be able to put together more focused mods with vastly meaningfull effects.......
I am sorry, but the consequences can be quite heavy the way I see it.
Well, some skills do are a pain to train up, especially past the GM level......
Some take months to make it 120 tamer real.......
Checks and balances ?
A power gamer's paradise, IMHO !! Not checks and balances........
Only those who spend tons of time and have tons of millions can get the most effective templates ?
And this should be seen as ok ?
Sorry, but I cannot possibly agree with it.
I am sorry, but to say that "in theory" items are available to all players when in fact they can only be obtained by those who have most time and most wealth in the game is not, at least to my opinion, a synonimous of balance......
I'd rather much prefer REAL SKILL be more meaningfull and to leave to items a MUCH more marginal role.
Popps... again, you say they're the most effective. How? What class completely destroyed your class? 6x120 classes are powerful themselves. You keep implying that +skills over the cap is breaking the game. HOW?! you loose SOO much in order to get the level you're talking about and it's not even as overpowered as you make it sound. And how is spending more money to keep creating these amazingly powerful items you think are going to ruin the game I guess make things less balanced? I really don't see your problem with this. How does this affect you at all? Did you just get your cloak stolen by some 850 point tamer because they did more damage to a shadow lord than you did and now you want to ruin peoples way of play? It's a game. A sandbox game by that. people play how people want to play. It doesn't hurt you in the slighest that their are + skill items and some people use them to make chars that they want to play and are effective to them, despire the huge disadvantages through mods they get. Theres like Fink said, checks and balances by this. Or you might just want some excuse to make your 6x120 char more powerful than it needs to be.
K
Kiminality
Guest
Y'know, if you want to be picky about things, humans already bypass the skill cap, with JoaT.
20 in each skill might not be much, but it gives +3MR on a non med/focus character, and contributes to the -10 mana cost of weapon specials.
I've never agreed with the real skill vs modified skill debates.
On the one side, if I take the time to train a skill to 120, I've earned that skill, while someone who dropped on a +skill item hasn't.
On the other side, if I take 90 taming, and drop on a +15 ring/brace, then I still have 120. I've still bought the power scroll, and the +30 taming isn't absolute.
I think the first step was taken by the pro-real people, who feel slighted by +skill jewellery. When two pieces of fairly common jewellery can equate to the year of work they put in to train taming, that's going to generate some resentment (even if the "work" was collecting GGS gains).
Naturally, those that use +skill items are going to feel threatened by the pro-real resentment. Pretty much because the pro-real line of reasoning tends towards the removal of +skill items.
So, the endlessly bickering is born, like with so many other subjects.
Both sides have merit, to be honest.
I have characters that are pure skill, and characters that rely on +skill items.
Without considering balance, because this subject isn't worth dedicated a lot of thought to, the easiest way around this would be to have +skill to be able to exceed caps.
That way, there is a benefit to real skill AND +skill.
But, it would come with hefty imbalances, by itself.
20 in each skill might not be much, but it gives +3MR on a non med/focus character, and contributes to the -10 mana cost of weapon specials.
I've never agreed with the real skill vs modified skill debates.
On the one side, if I take the time to train a skill to 120, I've earned that skill, while someone who dropped on a +skill item hasn't.
On the other side, if I take 90 taming, and drop on a +15 ring/brace, then I still have 120. I've still bought the power scroll, and the +30 taming isn't absolute.
I think the first step was taken by the pro-real people, who feel slighted by +skill jewellery. When two pieces of fairly common jewellery can equate to the year of work they put in to train taming, that's going to generate some resentment (even if the "work" was collecting GGS gains).
Naturally, those that use +skill items are going to feel threatened by the pro-real resentment. Pretty much because the pro-real line of reasoning tends towards the removal of +skill items.
So, the endlessly bickering is born, like with so many other subjects.
Both sides have merit, to be honest.
I have characters that are pure skill, and characters that rely on +skill items.
Without considering balance, because this subject isn't worth dedicated a lot of thought to, the easiest way around this would be to have +skill to be able to exceed caps.
That way, there is a benefit to real skill AND +skill.
But, it would come with hefty imbalances, by itself.
This is one senseless discussion.
There is no unfair imbalance, because everyone can get skill jewels or items.
THere is no skill that goes beyond 120, real or with skill jewels.
if you get skill points on your jewels you don't get the other cool mods, like HCI, DCI that are very powerful also.
I have characters that are using real skill only, and characters that use extra skill items, neither is more powerful than the other. Just different.
I can't escape the feeling that one particular posters in this thread is just whining like I have not seen anyone else do on these boards.... I read back through some more post of this individual, and he is just one unhappy complainer. He keeps making these holier than thou arguments in all his posts that basically suggest that everyone should be as poor as he is, run around naked without extraneous mods, using templates that he approves so that he feels like he can compete. Well, if he wants that he can pick up a nice game of Tetris and try to get a high score, or Pong. This is a much more complex game and the social and economic fabric, although far from ideal and certainly not perfect, make this the unbelievable game it is.
The funny thing is that I am not a very skilled PvP'er, and that I have been beaten senseless many times on my uber characters that were build to perfection. It mattered none that I used a character that had all 120 real skill or one that used crazy jewels, I just suck. You can compete in so many different ways in this game, you just need to pick one aspect that you like and go with it. Strangely, I keep coming back for more...
Oh and last but not least: This new SA client ROCKS! Don't let the dominant 20.000 posts-posters that have never anything positive to say here make anyone believe otherwise. Yay to the future of UO!
There is no unfair imbalance, because everyone can get skill jewels or items.
THere is no skill that goes beyond 120, real or with skill jewels.
if you get skill points on your jewels you don't get the other cool mods, like HCI, DCI that are very powerful also.
I have characters that are using real skill only, and characters that use extra skill items, neither is more powerful than the other. Just different.
I can't escape the feeling that one particular posters in this thread is just whining like I have not seen anyone else do on these boards.... I read back through some more post of this individual, and he is just one unhappy complainer. He keeps making these holier than thou arguments in all his posts that basically suggest that everyone should be as poor as he is, run around naked without extraneous mods, using templates that he approves so that he feels like he can compete. Well, if he wants that he can pick up a nice game of Tetris and try to get a high score, or Pong. This is a much more complex game and the social and economic fabric, although far from ideal and certainly not perfect, make this the unbelievable game it is.
The funny thing is that I am not a very skilled PvP'er, and that I have been beaten senseless many times on my uber characters that were build to perfection. It mattered none that I used a character that had all 120 real skill or one that used crazy jewels, I just suck. You can compete in so many different ways in this game, you just need to pick one aspect that you like and go with it. Strangely, I keep coming back for more...
Oh and last but not least: This new SA client ROCKS! Don't let the dominant 20.000 posts-posters that have never anything positive to say here make anyone believe otherwise. Yay to the future of UO!
But if they did this, Popps would start a new thread about how skill jewels shouldn't go past the skill cap only in this thread, I'd agree with him. I use a tamer with + skill because, why? Because I don't feel like training taming. Because it's horribly boring. I play this game to have fun, not tame 1,000's of creatures i'm just going to release or donate to the zoo. I try to remember to get My GGS though. But other than using + to temporarily make my tamer usable, I don't really use them. I have real skill on all my other chars, I want to make a char that gets 25-55 more skill points just to see how it works, but I have no resentment for anyone who wants to have 90 skill with 120 modified. Go for it. This is a game, play it how you want to play it as long as you don't grief me, we're golden. You playing with 32 maxed our skills has no effect on my play style and you loose a bunch of stuff. You wanna play that way, go for it. Not my place to go around saying it shouldn't be possible, and it imbalances the game because frankly, as I've said many times, it really doesn't. At worst, it gives them the ability to do one or two things you can't do, the loose of a stat that you have that makes you generally more powerful than them in all around combat and you can use a wide variety of equipment while they're limited.
I like this idea. No one looses anything but the if you have to max real skill you do gain something. Maybe even extra power to the skill like more damage or you heal more hit points.
S
Saris
Guest
well the problem with ppl talking real skill and items being an advantage against ppl who play less or are a noob, how the cheese does a noob or somebody that dont play thier char 20 hours a day get 120 taming, my Sampire uses the necro bracers, thats it. but my mage is about 830 skill points, i use him for fun, imo you cant get over 800 and have anythign good for resist btw.
i realy dont care one way or the other but if you want skill items removed from the game, then lets remove all the items.
What is hard to get, a crystaline ring? faction atris make the fact i had to kill shimmer for 3 mothns to get it pointless.\ Doom artis? please.
it takes SKILL sometime to aquire a hard to get items or $, well them things get you advantages in real life too, so be it.
i realy dont care one way or the other but if you want skill items removed from the game, then lets remove all the items.
What is hard to get, a crystaline ring? faction atris make the fact i had to kill shimmer for 3 mothns to get it pointless.\ Doom artis? please.
it takes SKILL sometime to aquire a hard to get items or $, well them things get you advantages in real life too, so be it.
I am sure that the 120 real skill tamers use a ring with mods to improve their character as well... God forbid they use a +15 magery +15 eval ring with LRC or MR...
Why is it that it only is brought up in conjunction with taming... well...?
The whining is just about making me sick here. You got 120 taming the real way... wow, that makes you a saint. Now, if you have done that on one, or two, characters, would you be somewhat less of a saint if on your third character you use skill jewelry to make a "different" template work.
It is a non-argument. It keeps coming back unfortunately. By the same people too...
To the OP, come up with something positive for a change...
Why is it that it only is brought up in conjunction with taming... well...?
The whining is just about making me sick here. You got 120 taming the real way... wow, that makes you a saint. Now, if you have done that on one, or two, characters, would you be somewhat less of a saint if on your third character you use skill jewelry to make a "different" template work.
It is a non-argument. It keeps coming back unfortunately. By the same people too...
To the OP, come up with something positive for a change...
Well here we have yet another .... *Rolls Eyes* post by yet another person that either can not or chooses not to, play like the majority of players. Thinly veiled "I hate tamers so lets nerf them into non existance" and "Oh, I hate Greater Dragons and cant deal with them so lest REMOVE THEM"
So yeah I can not compete with them so lets cripple everyone else that has made the effort, taken the time to play within the definitions of UO so I am superior to them. Much easier to take from people than to make an effort to get on the same plane with them.
Just what is your perceived GREAT HARM to UO?
What is the REAL driving force behind this .... *Sigh* request?
Did you advocate a totally similar request to DESTROY the Tank Mage that gave 100% balance to PvP? Perhaps you .... had issues with being competitive?
Just totally pointless, the game is already geared to people having High levels of Skill Totals, and are being given an opportunity make those totals even higher.
Does it just escape your perception that NEW encounters / rebalanced encounters MUST take the enhanced Skill Totals into account?
So yeah I can not compete with them so lets cripple everyone else that has made the effort, taken the time to play within the definitions of UO so I am superior to them. Much easier to take from people than to make an effort to get on the same plane with them.
Just what is your perceived GREAT HARM to UO?
What is the REAL driving force behind this .... *Sigh* request?
Did you advocate a totally similar request to DESTROY the Tank Mage that gave 100% balance to PvP? Perhaps you .... had issues with being competitive?
Just totally pointless, the game is already geared to people having High levels of Skill Totals, and are being given an opportunity make those totals even higher.
Does it just escape your perception that NEW encounters / rebalanced encounters MUST take the enhanced Skill Totals into account?
I think... i think I'm in love with you. But seriously, QFT.
C
Connor_Graham
Guest
C
Connor_Graham
Guest
Which reminds me, I've got a +40 skills Swords/Mage brace that "used" to be a kick ass brace, but now is just one of those items you point at and go oooh and aaah, then realize that it's nothing more than deco.
S
Saris
Guest
Well the OP's point of allowing a buff, spell, or special skill for having a natural 120, I dont think is a blatant stab at tamers 
but alas , my tamer wheres a plus 15 ring and the birds of brit totem, cuase if he did not, you think I would play an under devloped char, nope, im past that, so I would not play him at all,
Its not always a crutch, I tend on GGSing him to 120 but by skilling up with a ring, it makes him fun to play so i get my gains a more natural way. So far its working I unretired my tamer and got him to GM yay! and he sits at 120/110 for now with items, I get to train him in the field while using him.
I think at most you should get like some extra stable slots if your real skill is 120/120 you should also get certificate for being nuttier than planters if you did this on 4 chars.
but alas , my tamer wheres a plus 15 ring and the birds of brit totem, cuase if he did not, you think I would play an under devloped char, nope, im past that, so I would not play him at all,
Its not always a crutch, I tend on GGSing him to 120 but by skilling up with a ring, it makes him fun to play so i get my gains a more natural way. So far its working I unretired my tamer and got him to GM yay! and he sits at 120/110 for now with items, I get to train him in the field while using him.
I think at most you should get like some extra stable slots if your real skill is 120/120 you should also get certificate for being nuttier than planters if you did this on 4 chars.
A small bonus like that for geting 120 in any skill wouldn't be bad, but I think the OP would prefer something more potent so that more people would play his style... His way or the highway I guess. Thank god he's not a dev... Imagine if he lost pvp to a mage.Well the OP's point of allowing a buff, spell, or special skill for having a natural 120, I dont think is a blatant stab at tamers
but alas , my tamer wheres a plus 15 ring and the birds of brit totem, cuase if he did not, you think I would play an under devloped char, nope, im past that, so I would not play him at all,
Its not always a crutch, I tend on GGSing him to 120 but by skilling up with a ring, it makes him fun to play so i get my gains a more natural way. So far its working I unretired my tamer and got him to GM yay! and he sits at 120/110 for now with items, I get to train him in the field while using him.
I think at most you should get like some extra stable slots if your real skill is 120/120 you should also get certificate for being nuttier than planters if you did this on 4 chars.
M
Magneto2272
Guest
this thread is the most constructive and thought out thread i have read here on stratics on many months and possibly years.
that being said, this idea of 120 real skill having a small but useful perk over those who attain 120 skill with items is truly one of the best ideas i have read to help improve gameplay of all-time.
i'd like to add my own little idea to the pile: 6x120 real skill templates should have one unique ability/capacity only available through having maximum real skill. what could it be? well, i was thinking for non-archer melee templates, the ability to swing a 2-handed weapon at a 2-tile radius would make things extremely interesting... as it is, i have been primarily playing a melee character that does not use any +skill items. i can hold my own every now and then, but at the end of the day it truly is underpowered compared to today's most powerful templates, which are often either an archer or necro mage/tamer hybrid.
we non-archer melee players have been left out. i feel this would rebalance us.
in the end however, as much as we can petition and iluminate these great ideas and more, it is up to the developers to make this happen. i dont see any posting here anymore, which leads me to believe that their work with the next expansion has consumed their full attention. meanwhile the few fixes/alterations that do come our way are often only minor.
what i wouldnt give for them to take the bull by the horns and begin to give an alternative to so much item dependency.
this is unquestionably the way to do it.
one can only hope someone smart enough with some pull on the powers that be reads this and does something about it.
until then.....
ITEMS AHOY.
that being said, this idea of 120 real skill having a small but useful perk over those who attain 120 skill with items is truly one of the best ideas i have read to help improve gameplay of all-time.
i'd like to add my own little idea to the pile: 6x120 real skill templates should have one unique ability/capacity only available through having maximum real skill. what could it be? well, i was thinking for non-archer melee templates, the ability to swing a 2-handed weapon at a 2-tile radius would make things extremely interesting... as it is, i have been primarily playing a melee character that does not use any +skill items. i can hold my own every now and then, but at the end of the day it truly is underpowered compared to today's most powerful templates, which are often either an archer or necro mage/tamer hybrid.
we non-archer melee players have been left out. i feel this would rebalance us.
in the end however, as much as we can petition and iluminate these great ideas and more, it is up to the developers to make this happen. i dont see any posting here anymore, which leads me to believe that their work with the next expansion has consumed their full attention. meanwhile the few fixes/alterations that do come our way are often only minor.
what i wouldnt give for them to take the bull by the horns and begin to give an alternative to so much item dependency.
this is unquestionably the way to do it.
one can only hope someone smart enough with some pull on the powers that be reads this and does something about it.
until then.....
ITEMS AHOY.
G
guum
Guest
Seriously?
Really? Ok, let see now, I run my Taming and Lore up to 120 CRAP CAN THE Bird Reward for work done as it is NOW A CURSE.
So I vector my +75 Skill points into some other SKILL(S).
I NOW GET THE BONUS FOR THE 120 AND I GET THE ADDITIONAL 75 POINT SKILL(S).
So I get to BE EVEN BETTER.
*Rolls Eyes* The best idea ever? Really? Because from were I sit, Itemization didn't change at all, nada, not one iota. Nothing changes except people get STRONGER. But we sure did PUNISH THE EVIL TAMERS, we sure did rock the boat for NOTHING.
It's not our fault taming is a horribly long and tedious skill to raise. This isn't a post on "let's make taming easier." It's about the worth of +skill items. And there's no reason to nerf them, but giving real 120's a little bonus I'm all up for.
I think I'll go with WOW.
I've got some nice armor, and I've got a couple chars with a lot of extra skill points, but I think you just won this.
Sure, we're all definitely cheating. They didn't have any idea someone would be standing there with 823 skill points. I think the most I have 803-810. But, you know thats a long long way from the 700 we started with.
Skill jewelry changed the game for the average player. People that have been here 11 years, and have actually played a lot are always going to be better than people that have been here a couple of years. It doesn't matter how much money you spend on things, nothing will beat experience.
I always think of myself as a uo purist. I've never used even uoa. I actually played and acquired all the things we have. Now, since everyone in my family plays I guess we've bought maybe a billion in gold or so over the years. You can really enhance your uo experience when you carefully put a few billion into your characters and your armor.
WE always know we might log on one morning, and either ALL of this be gone, or changed to where nothing we have will work any more the way it used to. UO is like that.
Honestly though that tamer isn't all that good without all that stuff. You're going to have to understand that one morning it just might be worthless...
The first time I got to 120 taming I was stuck at 117.6 for 3-4 months. I was one of the first 5 actual legend tamers on Atl. No one really knew who the first one was for sure. I'd like to say I don't think you should be able to get there that way, but that is what skill jewelry is for. More power to your wife. It's very good to see people that love each other playing uo together.
E
Eman Resu
Guest
Is there anyone out there besides tamers that even uses skill jewelry to any serious extent? Are there melee characters out there giving up all their HCI/DCI so they can put an extra 30 points in anatomy or something?
The OP makes absolutely no sense and talks in circles.
He/she concluded that players are reaping benefits and getting to 7x120 with skill jewels?
As opposed to the 6x120 he/she reached without jewels.
How do the people using jewels to go ABOVE 6x120 get to the 6x120 in the first place? By expending the SAME EXACT time and effort as the OP!! Whats the problem?
If you have an overall issue with jewels adding skill thats fine but please spare me the "time, dedication and effort" whine because it is utterly ridiculous.
IMO the only thing sillier then the OP's time and dedication rant is his assertion that people are running around with sets of usable 90-150 skill jewels to "give a upper hand". Are you freaking kidding me lol?
That was my problem and why some of my replies had a frustrated tone to them... I tried to talk reason... *sigh*
Eman yes there are, my new template i want to make when SA comes out will, though it's not to anatomy. The problem is adding an 8th skill to a dexor template, such as healing to a sampire. Mine is adding healing to a necro sammy... That's a hard job. There's also a template in the warrior forums that has 789 skill points. If you look around, I'm sure you'll find more.
Coming Stygian Abyss and imbuing, those who can (i.e. power gamers with ton of time and gold to spend...) will be able to get their 7th skill AND those cool mods AS WELL !
Each piece of jewellery can house FIVE mods.
Let's assume that 3 per piece are used for skill, that's 90 points for a 7th skill there AND the ability to still have 4 other extra mods available !
Not to mention that there are piece wearables out there besides jewellery adding more points towards a 7th skill.......
But as I said, this is not even the point.
My point is that the CAP should be a CAP. A WALL, a HARD LIMIT past which it should not be possible to go.
Skill items' points should only work WITHIN this CAP, not bring one beyond it because otherwise, WHAT CAP IS IT AT ALL ???
That I know of, the skill CAP is currently set at 720 points............
And we go around in a circle again... *sighs* I'm honestly tired of saying the same things over again, I've already addressed this so my response is... Review other posts. It's going to get to a point where I'm just going to say "Google it"
Then please answer to me, WHY the total of skill points WAS INDEED set with a CAP of 720 total points ?
And, if I may ask you again, WHAT is a CAP supposed to mean if not a WALL, a LIMIT that should NOT be passed ?
Now, if I can ask again, what happens when one uses +skill items ?
Perhaps what was supposed to be a CAP, a LIMIT gets punched through and what was a 720 limit no longer is such ??
While some skills may not be as usefull, some are. Personally, I see, for example, a 7th skill like Spellweaving. perhaps at 6th Circle, with all of its spells, summons and so forth quite much better than whatever HCI, DCI or else one may want........
And that is merely an example....
I need to dissent, a 7th or even an 8th skill can be quite better than alternate mods, depends on the skill of course....
Not sure who you may be referring to. Personally, I care for THE GAME and think that putting too much of a barrier in between newcomers/returning players and existing, established players, HURTS THE GAME.
When a game needs too much catching up from new players or returning players this can work against increasing the number of subscriptions.
It is not about having anyone as poor as anyone else, it is about not making that gap too hard to cover and too widening that players who do not have the time at hand or the resources to bridge it may think "why bother" ?
So, protecting those who have more time at hand or more wealth, means to me increasing that GAP so that it might work as a deterrant towards newcomers or returning players who, after trying to catch up, may give up seeing the task as too far to be seen as reachable.
Their giving up, means loss of subscriptions to the game.........
That's quite the point, IMHO.
We have a SET skill CAP of 720 points and yet, this CAP is a joke because it is broken through by skill items ?
Mind you, not merely of a few points, we are talking here of a skill CAP SET at 720 points which can be broken (at least in theory) by 10 x 15 = 150 points not to mention all those extra points that can come from artifacts, talismans or pieces of wearables !!
Let's say 200 points ?
So we have a skill CAP of 720 points that CAN be punched through for some 28% ???????
And this is not absurd ?
That's simply BRILLIANT.
And it should be something potent enough to make players actually WANT to invest in real skill points rather than beefed up ones with items........
Well, ideas could be made and I am sure some cool bonus eventually would surface but the issue is that it should not be eye candy, but something that really would make a player want to prefer all 6 x 120 real skill over beefed up ones......
Agreed. And that is why I was asking if anyone had a link to a post, even an old one, expressing what the Developers' idea on this issue might be.
I understand that now they are all busy with the release of Stygian Abyss, and rightfully so since this expansion done right is important for the future of Ultima Online, still, it would not harm if any of them from time to time could start posting again on these Forums, at least in those threads containing relevant issues for the game......
And this, I think, does is quite a relevant and divisive issue for UO.......
Let me explain what the problem is from my perception of it........
It is not like a player trains a 6 x 120 template and THEN finds jewellery/items for another 120/200 points for a 7th and possibly 8th skill to add up.......
Nope, it does not work this way.
Since skills come "mixed up" and on jewellery they can be max 15 points and on some wearables max 20 points, it is not that a template first trains 6 skills for 120 points and after this collects all items for a 7th or 8th skill even.
Nope, the way it works is that such a template will have, in the best case scenario, all 7 or 8 skills worked up to about 90 points, perhaps 100 and then "pump them up", all of them, with the mixed jewellery/items, well assorted, so as to master 120 max skill in all of them 7 or for most of them 8.
Coming Stygian Abyss and imbuing, this will even be more feasible for those who can spend time and lots of gold till they get what they want/need........
What does this mean ?
That a player sporting a template with 7 skills all maxed out or even 8 skills mostly maxed out but all (or most) at around 90-100 REAL skill, will have effectively SKIPPED the hardest part of training which is the one that starts at about 90-100 and goes all the way, with increasingly painfullness, to 120.
I hope the issue is clearer now......
M
Magneto2272
Guest
hrmm you should really try to actually read my post before you flame. i said 6x120 natural skill should get a perk. and fyi, if you have ever played or played against one of these bokuto- necro dread/cu -tamer mage hybrids all +item'd out you will discover just how over the top they really are. they can insta kill if the rng lines up.
C
Connor_Graham
Guest
If the devs didn't want us to have +Skill items, they wouldn't keep adding more with every expansion. Everyone has access to every item in the game, so there is no imbalance, whether you want to admit to it or not.Get over yourself popps. Really. It's time to admit you have an addiction to whining. I'd hate to see what all you complained about when you went to play WoW. Maybe it's time to go to WA (Whiners Anonymous).
*waits for popps to repeat himself in this thread with the same tired excuses for the 6854765168465465th time*
*waits for popps to repeat himself in this thread with the same tired excuses for the 6854765168465465th time*
B
Beer_Cayse
Guest
agreed.World of Warcraft ? I am sorry, but I never played it.
Whether anyone can do something, to my opinion it is irrelevant when the issue is not whether one can or not do whatever, but when the issue is WHEN that someone can "eventually" get that something done.........
If that "eventually" comes too far away (or is perceived by the player as too far away reachable), my concern is that this may cost subscriptions to the game.
So, who cares whether or not anyone can, I care about WHEN that can realistically happen because I fear that if the gap to be covered by newcomers/returning players is too wide, then the perceived sensation on some players may make them think "why bother" and cost subscriptions to the game.
This said, I am NOT saying new/returning players should have everything the day after they activate their account, I am only saying that the difference between them and old, existing players should be under check and the GAP to cross not too wde so that in a few months it CAN be realistically covered without having to play the game 24/7..........
This means 120 powerscrolls/stat scrolls, high end gear, weapons, housing and blah blah blah.
A game should not require years for new comers to have to catch up with existing ones, IMHO.
C
Connor_Graham
Guest
Care to tell another lie?
Ok, so a new player should have the 1.5+ billion worth of stuff that it's taken me nearly 5 years to obtain within a few months? Bull****.
As for the rest, all I got was "blah, blah, blah", and some noises that sounded like the adults talking in a Charlie Brown cartoon.
I have always been against Skill jewelry/items but I feel its too late to do anything now, Maybe what they should do is make skill items not take you past your natural 700-720 skill cap it would allow newer players to use it while more developed characters it becomes pointless.
