Would You Still Play UO if it were All Fel Rules?

[Draxous]

UO is many things, to many people. Some of the posters here have a distinct lack of understanding of some of the others.

Part of this I think, is a gender thing. BlackRain, you are wrong in assuming everyone wants to win. For example: I have a shop on Siege, do I have it to make lots of gold? No, I could make more gold if I trained a pvm character. I have the shop because I like to make things, and because I like to help people. I provide the necessities of UO life, not the luxuries.
I don't like to pvp, one I don't have the aggressive instinct or reaction speed, and two I can't bring myself to deliberately cause another player distress. I'm a helper, a nurturer, not a fighter. Allow for different personalities in your analysis. EA does.

I play Siege, I sometimes die. Do I fight when I'm attacked? No I either run away or just stand and wait for the inevitable.

Petra, hun... you fall into exactly what I'm saying.

The only difference is the way an individual chooses to view it.

Who wrote that line? It is the essence of my argument.

You play on Siege where there is no trammel. You get pk'd. So what's the difference between you and someone who plays trammel with a loathing for Felucca?

Obviously, it's the way you view PvP...

(And btw: you're playing UO on "Hard" mode not "Easy." Cheers for being a hardcore-granny-gamer.)

 

[Storm]

I think that there are some of us, like myself, that would play it regardless of which ruleset there was...because we are addicts.

I have played from nearly the beginning way before trammel and would probably continue to play if all fel as I am established and would not have to start new and could hold my own the thing I remember most from then was the getting pked all the time and making it very difficult to progress and the pkers were mostly established characters with top gear killing me just to do it there was no skill in it there was no real profit in it! and it got old fast and I was about to hang it up when they announced trammel and if it was not for that I would not be here today!

 

[Draxous]

What it boils down to for all sides is tolerance.
Tolerate others playstyles and likes and dislikes and knowing its ok not to win UO

THE QUEEN HATH SPOKEN!

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

That was the whole point (and thus the "tongue" smilie at the end) of the post.... just to show how dumb that statement really is. I know you didn;t make it, and that you also disagree with the person who did, I was just making light of the statement itself.

It just makes me wonder because aside from a few outliers that I also disagree with, I have RARELY seen non-PvP players be completely "anti-PvP". Generally, they have no problem with PvP by itself, they just do not wish to be involved in it for one reason or another.

By contrast, I have seen a much greater dislike of non-PvP from PvP posters.

It's just an interesting dichotomy of mindsets I've observed.

I think there is room for both, and I'd like to see PvP systems improved in such a way that they are more rewarding and more active with bringing people into them (aside from dangling "carrots" to non-PvP players as a lure).

 

[D'Amavir]

I am seeming more and more to be the type of poster who just likes to argue for the sake of argument.

Yes, you are.

I'm not making the case that this is a pvp only game. What I was describing was that you (as a player) are in competition with those who also play this game with you... in many different ways (aspects.) But the aspect which we are talking about in this thread is Trammel and Felucca.

Competition is one thing. Unbalanced pseudo competition, like you enjoy, is not.

1. You enjoy playing Ultima Online at a lower level of difficulty.

2. You cannot accept or come to terms with where you rank amongst the other players on your shard in PvP.

You lack options.

Players like Avenhar, clearly accept that they do not rank high enough on the spectrum to enjoy the activity so they prefer to abstain from it. Players like D'Amavir cannot accept that they do not rank high enough on the spectrum so they make excuses or try to form ad hominem arguments to justify their poor sportsmanship.

Players like you can't stand being in a fair fight so you get the best gear you gain and hope to run into someone with lesser gear so you don't loser. Hey, that's a valid playstyle. I don't fault you for it. At least you can admit that is what you are.

That is it.

If by that is it is that that is all your mind can come up with as reasons people don't like current UO pvp, then yes. That is it indeed. For those of us able to see more than you, then that is also it.

The vast majority of us have come to terms with the fact that we will never own a house right outside of the gate in East Luna. We have come to terms with the fact that we will never earn a billion gold coins. We have come to terms with the fact that there will be people who have and can do things that we simply cannot...

I have come to terms with the fact that I am not the best pvp'er in game. And, you know what, it doesn't bother me like it seems to bother you that you aren't. I choose, that's choose, to play the game in a way that doesn't put me into as much contact with people like you that spend as much gold/money as they can so that they can have the best overpowered gear in the game so that they can 'pwn' anyone in lesser gear. Again, you have your choice in how you want to play (easy mode with high end overpowered gear) and I have my choice in how I want to play. Sounds fair to me.

But PvP? Which is just another aspect of the same game... is some how different?

The difference, as you can't seem to comprehend, is in the balance of it. When someone uses a third party tool to place a house in Luna and cut out other house placers that don't use those tools, then those other placers aren't real happy about it. If someone uses a script to farm a specific creature 23/7 and keeps others from being able to access it, then those other players aren't real happy about it. PVP, and again this is the part you don't get, is the same way. When faced with pvp where it is skill vs skill, many people have fun. Win or lose, its fun. When faced with pvp against opponents that outgear you, out speedhack you or out script you, not so fun. Win or lose, not so fun. To you, its all about 'winning'. If you can one shot every other person in the game, you are happy because your mind just sees 'win win win'. Whereas other people see the game more in terms of fun. Fun fun fun. Which is fine.

You have a mind that needs to feel better about itself by going around in a game and 'winning' against people that, if all things were equal, you wouldn't win against. Cool, more power to you. You have pretty much admitted that you choose easy mode for your pvp. And that's fine. Its your right to choose the easiest path you can so that you can feel better about yourself. Bravo.

No no no... it is the same. The only difference is the way an individual chooses to view it.

As long as the individual views it just like you, you mean. PVP is ONE aspect of the game. If someone enjoys it and chooses to do it in easy mode like you do, they can. If someone doesn't enjoy it and chooses not to take part, they can. I don't like mashed potatoes. Does that mean I fear mashed potatoes? Or that I am a poor sport because the mashed potatoes can beat me? No. I just don't enjoy them. But you go ahead and pwn those mashed potatoes with your Val Runic Fork while you wear your Barbed Runic bid. Like I said, more power to ya.

Which is exactly... what I'm saying. [/QUOTE]

 

[D'Amavir]

Now the only question left is... have you come to terms with "your place" in PvP as you have with everything else I described?

You're A-O-K with not being the richest, the best dressed, or the one with the best house... but are you A-O-K with not being the best PvPer or *gasp* being a punching bag to the vast majority of PvPers?

Avenhar has... have you?

Can't speak for anyone else, but I can. I have come to terms with not being the best pvp'er in this item based as opposed to skill based online game. You got me. How can I ever live with myself as long as I can't pwn all those GM gear wearing noobs in my high end gear playing pvp on easy mode like you? Woe is me.

 

[D'Amavir]

Part of this I think, is a gender thing.

HEY NOW!!! I am a guy and I think BR is being a moiyron about this. I am not the 'lay out epeens to see whose is bigger' type. Much like my thoughts on pvp, I am a skill over tool guy all the way. heh

 

[Draxous]

It just makes me wonder because aside from a few outliers that I also disagree with, I have RARELY seen non-PvP players be completely "anti-PvP".

By contrast, I have seen a much greater dislike of non-PvP from PvP posters.

It's just an interesting dichotomy of mindsets I've observed.

For the sake of discussion... this 'observation' that you've made is not something new. It's prevalence surfaced in 2003... when Age of Shadows came out and I'll tell you why.

You can PvM, craft, hang out, do whatever you want without ever having to PvP.

You have to do non-PvP type stuff in order to PvP. Such as PvM or crafting.

Before AoS, one could PvP, loot their kills and be self-sustaining through PvP. I for example, did not hunt a single monster from 00 to 03, unless I wanted to (and I don't remember actually doing it.)

After AoS? Players HAD to do doom in order to get the artifacts they needed to stay competitive. Players HAD to do BoDs in order to get the runics they needed to stay competitive. Every minute spent doing something they did not want to do... just to enhance something that they did want to do. I moved to Siege full time when AoS hit Atlantic... where I found a semblance in what I had fallen in love with over 10 years ago.

Also,

Not to mention expansion after expansion tailored to everyone but the PvPer.

Not to mention publish after publish that altered, screwed with or alienated the PvPer.

After 8+ years of having to adapt and deal with crap dished to PvPers really begins to fester after a while.

So, I have no idea why you've had any reason to "wonder" about the dichotomy of mindsets you've observed... it's plain as day to see why we have them.

Thank EA.

And thank god we now have Mythic who have been doing publishes like the faction one we just got with crimson dragons where the bread is passed all the way around the table... not just stopping at the trammies plate.

 

[shanshu]

I would not play, no. I have to agree with Connor Graham and Tina Small here.

I don't PvP because it isn't fun for me. There is no "rush". Usually, when I log into game, I am here to take my mind off of other things. Sometimes I like to craft and sometimes I like to run peerless. This is fun for me.

Black Rain is casting a wide net.

They like to PvP, cool. More power to ya. Whatever makes this game enjoyable for you. I don't begrudge you that. I also don't see you as playing the game on a harder or more rewarding level than me or anyone else.

Some people like to watch sports, some people only like watch some sports. Some people like to play sports. Others don't like to play or watch. No one is wrong. No one way is better than the other. Those who do not like to play or watch or watch ALL sports are not missing something. They are getting exactly what they want and need from their experiences.

Black Rain, I can appreciate your passion for PvP, but you really need to stop psycho analyzing everyone who doesn't see things from your point of view. Not everyone is so competitive. I do not compete with my wife for who is the better spouse or parent, nor do I compete with my children for who gets more attention. In my professional role, I support a team of 10. I am not in competition with anyone else. I feel success and accomplished when I measure my role against my own expectations and no one else's.

 

[D'Amavir]

Not to mention expansion after expansion tailored to everyone but the PvPer.

Not to mention publish after publish that altered, screwed with or alienated the PvPer.

I agree with you there. EA/Every UO Dev team in the last decade has ruined pvp for people like me. I used to be all into pvp. I wasn't the best, I wasn't the worst. I won. I lost. But, above all, I had fun doing it. Then it started to become more item based and I started having less fun with it. I still won and I still lost. But the fun factor started going away. Then it started to become even more item based. The fun level lowered to the point where I didn't even bother with it. At all. Not because I was losing. Not because I was afraid. And not because I thought all pvp'ers were 12 year old punks. But simply because it wasn't fun for me.

Today, I freely admit that I couldn't pvp my way out of a paper sack. I am out of practice, I haven't tested out a lot of the new pvp based templates in action and I don't have the bad arse gear. But I am ok with that. It doesn't lessen my feelings of self worth at all. Do I wish pvp was more skill based and less item based? You betcha. Would I take part in it much more if that was the case? You betcha.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

...
I have RARELY seen non-PvP players be completely "anti-PvP". Generally, they have no problem with PvP by itself, they just do not wish to be involved in it for one reason or another.

By contrast, I have seen a much greater dislike of non-PvP from PvP posters.

Oh, there are haters on both sides of the argument. Here on Stratics, its a vocal few on both sides. Some think I am on one side of the argument, when really I am not.

But there are some posters that are so violently anti-PvP that they don't even want to hear what anyone on the other side of the argument has to say.

There is no monopoly on immaturity in UO, that's for sure.

 

[Draxous]

I would not play, no. I have to agree with Connor Graham and Tina Small here.

I don't PvP because it isn't fun for me. There is no "rush". Usually, when I log into game, I am here to take my mind off of other things. Sometimes I like to craft and sometimes I like to run peerless. This is fun for me.

Black Rain is casting a wide net.

They like to PvP, cool. More power to ya. Whatever makes this game enjoyable for you. I don't begrudge you that. I also don't see you as playing the game on a harder or more rewarding level than me or anyone else.

Some people like to watch sports, some people only like watch some sports. Some people like to play sports. Others don't like to play or watch. No one is wrong. No one way is better than the other. Those who do not like to play or watch or watch ALL sports are not missing something. They are getting exactly what they want and need from their experiences.

Black Rain, I can appreciate your passion for PvP, but you really need to stop psycho analyzing everyone who doesn't see things from your point of view. Not everyone is so competitive. I do not compete with my wife for who is the better spouse or parent, nor do I compete with my children for who gets more attention. In my professional role, I support a team of 10. I am not in competition with anyone else. I feel success and accomplished when I measure my role against my own expectations and no one else's.

Ughm... you sure do seem to see it from my point of view?

Usually, when I log into game, I am here to take my mind off of other things.

Sounds like you like it easier... er... more relaxing? If it was at a higher level of difficulty, it sounds as though it would be more stressful for you.

Is that a bad thing? Absolutely not.

I apologize for my original post which may have been a bit abrasive as I'm seeing the defensiveness you and others have projected towards the simple truth behind my words. There is nothing wrong with you preferring to play a videogame at a lower level of difficulty. That is your prerogative and you should not feel anything negative towards that choice.

So I sincerely apologize if I gave that impression. I am human... after all.

 

[QueenZen]

I would continue to play if UO was an all fel ruleset, it is how I began UO in the first place back to right before the lost lands were created 98 or so, when there was no trammel, but then I play Siege too since 2004, as a pile of defenseless crafters templates.

IF they made UO an ALL PVP ONLY game THEN I would leave. I did pvp did factions, enjoyed being a warrior pvper *back in the day*. For myself the *itemised game* changed much of that for me ie AOS. I do not like doing MATH to go out there and fight. . %%%%% of this piece of that armor that wep add it up is it enough ............

first time I got pkd and lost something of value it was simply a VALORITE archer suit. I got pkd outside of Delucia on Chesapeake...took me 6 long months of training up a new chr. to surprise the guy, with a cute red headed mage he was sweet on, he that got my valorite and I exterminated him on a cute lil...foxy looking *stranger* and took all his darn armor loots and then some then killed him again in his sleep *disconnect*. Then I told him whom I was an alt of the QZ he killed...and he just grinned and said *damn remind me not to **** you off in game* LOL I liked pvping THEN. I doubt I would care about it NOW since AOS and being a creature of habit...AOS and me parted ways. I went for *old style* of uo style...I dont care what is IN in armor...even tire of players whinning they lost their suit of mega millions and %%%%. IF ever UO would revert back to skills over items I might pvp again...or NOT.

For myself I never made any crafters in the all feluccan ruleset never had the guts to play *defenseless crafters* back in the day all my chrs. were WARRIORS or WARRIOR MAGE types. But...one day I decided to MAKE crafters on Siege...got exterminated by a vampire and felt like I was *home* again somewhere in UO. Does not even bug me 99.999999% of the time to get pkd I just wave and say hi. It is what I grew up with in UO a fel ruleset so..........even now if I am on Chesapeake I am *uninsured* wearing old school stuffs.....they kill me they kill me...guess I am an old school hermit play style...don't care bout their arties marties and fahties...or that they killed me ...............I do what I WANT TO DO in UO how I want to do it for my chrs. We only get *owned* if we let our mind reactions feel we got *owned*...different strokes for different folks in this game world..not everyone is wanting to pvp. For myself playing almost as long as uo is old, pvp to me is also been there done it, pvp had reds had blues had pks had factions chrs. all on Chesapeake ...never ever had the guts to make pure crafters in the fel only ruleset always had chrs created and primed to FIGHT.......till 2004 and I made them all on Siege pure crafters and I enjoyed playing THEM...in that all fel ruleset of Siege.

But if they ONLY permitted PVP in UO I would be GONE. I am more *creative*now than pvp orientated like I was in old UO.

As for trammel, there folks that want and need that calm place...somewhere to play however they want to pay to play too, for my own self the way they created trammel destroyed guilds and entire communities and player run towns on Chesapeake back then...I still wish they would have invented or created it much differently than tearing communities to shreds like it had happened. Nothing we can do about it ..........after all these years.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...Oh, there are haters on both sides of the argument. Here on Stratics, its a vocal few on both sides. Some think I am on one side of the argument, when really I am not.

But there are some posters that are so violently anti-PvP that they don't even want to hear what anyone on the other side of the argument has to say.

There is no monopoly on immaturity in UO, that's for sure.

No argument there and I'm just as against the anti-PvP crowd as I am the pro-everything must be non-con PvP crowd.

 

[D'Amavir]

For myself the *itemised game* changed much of that for me ie AOS. I do not like doing MATH to go out there and fight. . %%%%% of this piece of that armor that wep add it up is it enough ............

Don't tell my girlfriend or my boyfriend, but I think I have a net crush!

 

[D'Amavir]

...Oh, there are haters on both sides of the argument. Here on Stratics, its a vocal few on both sides. Some think I am on one side of the argument, when really I am not.

But there are some posters that are so violently anti-PvP that they don't even want to hear what anyone on the other side of the argument has to say.

There is no monopoly on immaturity in UO, that's for sure.

No argument there and I'm just as against the anti-PvP crowd as I am the pro-everything must be non-con PvP crowd.

Same here. I just can't stand the whole generalizing thing that both sides fall into anytime a 'discussion' like this starts. The 'all pvp'ers are punks' and the 'all non pvp'ers just want it easy' mentality is like watching Rain Man, if Rain Man was as stupid as Tom Cruise at least.

 

[GreywolfUK]

Since the Age of Shadows, I rarely play in fel, if it was pre AoS then maybe I would remain, but I doubt that would happen, so my vote is no, I would probably close my remaining accounts for good.

I guess I have lived in Tram too long now to revert back to all fel rules.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

For the sake of discussion... this 'observation' that you've made is not something new. It's prevalence surfaced in 2003... when Age of Shadows came out and I'll tell you why.

You can PvM, craft, hang out, do whatever you want without ever having to PvP.

You have to do non-PvP type stuff in order to PvP. Such as PvM or crafting.

Before AoS, one could PvP, loot their kills and be self-sustaining through PvP. I for example, did not hunt a single monster from 00 to 03, unless I wanted to (and I don't remember actually doing it.)

After AoS? Players HAD to do doom in order to get the artifacts they needed to stay competitive. Players HAD to do BoDs in order to get the runics they needed to stay competitive. Every minute spent doing something they did not want to do... just to enhance something that they did want to do. I moved to Siege full time when AoS hit Atlantic... where I found a semblance in what I had fallen in love with over 10 years ago.

Also,

Not to mention expansion after expansion tailored to everyone but the PvPer.

Not to mention publish after publish that altered, screwed with or alienated the PvPer.

After 8+ years of having to adapt and deal with crap dished to PvPers really begins to fester after a while.

So, I have no idea why you've had any reason to "wonder" about the dichotomy of mindsets you've observed... it's plain as day to see why we have them.

Thank EA.

And thank god we now have Mythic who have been doing publishes like the faction one we just got with crimson dragons where the bread is passed all the way around the table... not just stopping at the trammies plate.

Got to throw my opinion in on this one too Black Rain...


I was around when before Trammel, and yes, a PvPer could be self sustaining back in those days.

But how??

By preying upon people that did not have a choice in the matter. Do you think that a group of 3 fighter characters that were just minding their own business killing harpies really had a choice when Covetous Crew showed up with 6 reds and 4 blues, all with the best available gear, and maxed out skills, and PK'ed them and looted everything they worked for that evening??

Do you think that a tamer, such as myself, who was in the middle of trying to tame a dragon...and getting eaten in the process...had any choice when 2 blues para fielded her so the dragon could kill her, then they looted her stuff?

Don't put the blame on the so-called "Trammies" and EA. If it had not been for the obnoxious and wanton disregard for the game experience of other players by PvPers, we would have never gotten Trammel in the first place.

I am always quick to champion the cause of PvP, and to ask for Fel only options, and Fel development...but the truth of the matter is, if you really pin me down on the issue...it still makes me very angry that immature little **** ant PKs ****ed up this game because they would not stop for one ******* second to think that there were other people playing this game, and that eventually, OSI was going to put an end to their ****.

My guild was an Anti-PK guild because we were fighting to protect the people that didn't want to have to fight the people that wanted to prey on them. If there had been more guilds like mine, perhaps we could have policed the shards ourselves instead of OSI splitting the world...but it makes me just as angry because it seems to me that the only thing that was offered in the face of the abusive, destructive, behavior of PKs back then was pure ****ing apathy. No one would accept responsibility for the community, so we lost it.

But if you are going to start pointing the 'its your fault we have so much Tram content' finger, you better have a mirror handy.

 

[QueenZen]

Don't tell my girlfriend or my boyfriend, but I think I have a net crush!

haha MATH AND ABBREV. I dislike both. haha

*lemme see* SDI this MANAREG that lower REG that, %%%%% do the math do the ABBREVS. by that time.......I coulda went out and killed someone with an OLD school halley gm smithed armor, and knocked the daylights outta them....ok gimme another hour to translate the ABBREVS on the pieces of whatsits and armor and weps....make sure I got the %%%%%%%% numbers and abbrevs just right then the *connection speed too* and hell let someone younger do all that BS................. IMA TOO OLD SCHOOL UO for that post aos bs. . been that way ever since the age of sTuFf$ then they all whine when they loose their suits and takes em time or lotsa gp to get it in duplicates triplicates so when they loose it they got another to don on to go kill someone...........MEH ! pfffffffffffffffffffft sissies haha let em play without it like me then see who got GUTS or ya know ..to play UO still. . in our fel ruleset...bet some of em would QUIT if they lost their precious ornies marties fahties and whosits and whatsits ....lucky they got math and abbrev skills or they would maybe SUXXORS at ...........pvp like it used to be when *I* pvp'd back in the day. haha *runs and hides from uber leet itempvpers* haha

 

[shanshu]

Ughm... you sure do seem to see it from my point of view?



Sounds like you like it easier... er... more relaxing? If it was at a higher level of difficulty, it sounds as though it would be more stressful for you.

Is that a bad thing? Absolutely not.

I apologize for my original post which may have been a bit abrasive as I'm seeing the defensiveness you and others have projected towards the simple truth behind my words. There is nothing wrong with you preferring to play a videogame at a lower level of difficulty. That is your prerogative and you should not feel anything negative towards that choice.

So I sincerely apologize if I gave that impression. I am human... after all.

Let me ask you, easier, compared to what?

 

[Maplestone]

I am just simply curious.

Please forgive the distrust I had. There are simply so many ways a thread like this can turn ugly. It's like wild animals tied up in a sack.

 

[Surgeries]

I would not play, no. I have to agree with Connor Graham and Tina Small here.

I don't PvP because it isn't fun for me. There is no "rush". Usually, when I log into game, I am here to take my mind off of other things. Sometimes I like to craft and sometimes I like to run peerless. This is fun for me.

Black Rain is casting a wide net.

They like to PvP, cool. More power to ya. Whatever makes this game enjoyable for you. I don't begrudge you that. I also don't see you as playing the game on a harder or more rewarding level than me or anyone else.

Some people like to watch sports, some people only like watch some sports. Some people like to play sports. Others don't like to play or watch. No one is wrong. No one way is better than the other. Those who do not like to play or watch or watch ALL sports are not missing something. They are getting exactly what they want and need from their experiences.

Black Rain, I can appreciate your passion for PvP, but you really need to stop psycho analyzing everyone who doesn't see things from your point of view. Not everyone is so competitive. I do not compete with my wife for who is the better spouse or parent, nor do I compete with my children for who gets more attention. In my professional role, I support a team of 10. I am not in competition with anyone else. I feel success and accomplished when I measure my role against my own expectations and no one else's.

That. **^^^^^**

Right there.

Nail...Meet Thy Hammer.

Well Said.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Please forgive the distrust I had. There are simply so many ways a thread like this can turn ugly. It's like wild animals tied up in a sack.

I think ugly is a very subjective term. I don't see open communication and free speech as "ugly". But then again, I hate censorship...so I am a bad person to ask.

 

[Nonel]

Who has to PvP?

My smith never leaves Fel. He has no fighting skills.

My thief prospers in Fel, without the need to kill.

Call me crazy, but challenge is fun.

Edit: Every one of my characters, from tinker and smith to thief and mage are in factions, and live soley in Fel.. Only 2 of them are based on PvP.

Fel doesn't always equate to having to fight. Before Tram, we worked around the PKs. It was rarely hard to foil their attempts.

 

[D'Amavir]

That. **^^^^^**

Right there.

Nail...Meet Thy Hammer.

Well Said.

And these are not the hammer. The hammer is............

 

[kelmo]

Let me think on it a bit...

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Let me think on it a bit...

I love Kelmo to bits. Who else actually posts "Let me think on it a bit" instead of just doing it and then posting later??


Too cool.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

I would still play.

Though I don't see how that can relate to:
"I am asking because I am curious how the introduction of Trammel affected the evolution of UO. "
that... as I started after Tram (Jan 2001).

The reason I would still play is just that I learnt how to PvP & how Fel works and if you're at least aware of it you can still easily PvM, craft or anything else.

 

[Magdalene]

Of course. Dying and stuff is no issue. It becomes an issue when one has to hunt for hours a day every day to keep up with gear and insurance money and spend other hours calculating resistances and mods...
So, I'd rather play old school all together. Emergency bag of regs in the bank box and you're ready to go...

 

[D'Amavir]

Of course. Dying and stuff is no issue. It becomes an issue when one has to hunt for hours a day every day to keep up with gear and insurance money and spend other hours calculating resistances and mods...
So, I'd rather play old school all together. Emergency bag of regs in the bank box and you're ready to go...

Jeez. I hate agreeing with Admins and Mods and the like. Why can't you all be like some of the others and just say silly stuff that makes it easier to disagree with you? Help a bruddah out how bout it?

 

[Magdalene]

 

[kelmo]

I love Kelmo to bits. Who else actually posts "Let me think on it a bit" instead of just doing it and then posting later??


Too cool.

*blushes*

 

[kelmo]

Jeez. I hate agreeing with Admins and Mods and the like. Why can't you all be like some of the others and just say silly stuff that makes it easier to disagree with you? Help a bruddah out how bout it?

*narrows eyes*

 

[Draxous]

For the sake of discussion... this 'observation' that you've made is not something new. It's prevalence surfaced in 2003... when Age of Shadows came out and I'll tell you why.

You can PvM, craft, hang out, do whatever you want without ever having to PvP.

You have to do non-PvP type stuff in order to PvP. Such as PvM or crafting.

Before AoS, one could PvP, loot their kills and be self-sustaining through PvP. I for example, did not hunt a single monster from 00 to 03, unless I wanted to (and I don't remember actually doing it.)

After AoS? Players HAD to do doom in order to get the artifacts they needed to stay competitive. Players HAD to do BoDs in order to get the runics they needed to stay competitive. Every minute spent doing something they did not want to do... just to enhance something that they did want to do. I moved to Siege full time when AoS hit Atlantic... where I found a semblance in what I had fallen in love with over 10 years ago.

Also,

Not to mention expansion after expansion tailored to everyone but the PvPer.

Not to mention publish after publish that altered, screwed with or alienated the PvPer.

After 8+ years of having to adapt and deal with crap dished to PvPers really begins to fester after a while.

So, I have no idea why you've had any reason to "wonder" about the dichotomy of mindsets you've observed... it's plain as day to see why we have them.

Thank EA.

And thank god we now have Mythic who have been doing publishes like the faction one we just got with crimson dragons where the bread is passed all the way around the table... not just stopping at the trammies plate.

Got to throw my opinion in on this one too Black Rain...


I was around when before Trammel, and yes, a PvPer could be self sustaining back in those days.

But how??

By preying upon people that did not have a choice in the matter.

blah blah blah

Look at the time frame in which I wrote what I wrote. It was from 2000 to 2003... which is when Trammel was very much a part of UO. Whoever I fought and killed HAD a choice in the matter.

You aren't reading the posts and this is proof you are just here to find an argument to argue with.

You have tons of opinions, but I no longer care what your opinion is as you don't read what you respond to and much like in the other thread are just sitting at your computer screen itching to respond with a "well I disagree and this is my opinion."

Have a nice day.

 

[D'Amavir]

*narrows eyes*

Now that's more like it. I hate narrowed eyes! They should be banned from existence!

On a more serious note, what's up with those narrowed eyes? I heard they were killing puppies and robbing homeless shelters. Society needs to be free of their kind.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Though I don't see how that can relate to:
"I am asking because I am curious how the introduction of Trammel affected the evolution of UO. "
that... as I started after Tram (Jan 2001).

The reason I ask in relation to the evolution of UO (pretty much all Trammel based expansions since the split) is because I was/am trying to get a sense of why people stay away from Fel.

So far, I have seen some very compelling arguments on the NO vote side.

It would seem, from the answers that we have gotten so far that people don't PvP/go to Fel often because:

- They don't want to cause other players grief or harm
- They have no interest in fighting other players, or in some cases fighting at all
- There are too many cheaters
- The AoS system made it so there was too much math and abbrevs to keep up with
- They are not good at PvP and admit that
- They do it some, but prefer the more "relaxed" environment of Trammel

All of these are all valid reasons in my opinion. I agree with most of them in fact. I think there are too many cheaters, I think the AoS system did make it so that you had to have a firm understanding of the item properties to be competitive...as well as access to the ultra high-end items, I remember playing in the old days and having to travel in a large group to do anything...and when you weren't you had to constantly be on the look out for gank squads (hence why playing in Tram is less stressful). So I can honestly see where some people are coming from.

I guess I wanted to gain some insight into it. I still don't understand the "I am against all things developed for Fel" mentality...but that is a subject for another thread perhaps.

 

[Maplestone]

*finds it interesting that yet again a U.Hall poll has gravitated to a 50-50 split*

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Look at the time frame in which I wrote what I wrote. It was from 2000 to 2003... which is when Trammel was very much a part of UO. Whoever I fought and killed HAD a choice in the matter.

You aren't reading the posts and this is proof you are just here to find an argument to argue with.

You have tons of opinions, but I no longer care what your opinion is as you don't read what you respond to and much like in the other thread are just sitting at your computer screen itching to respond with a "well I disagree and this is my opinion."

Have a nice day.

He got me...

I did miss the time frame in his post. I guess I know my "place" now...

Whatevs.

 

[Yalp]

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't Siege an "All Fel Rules"?

Your question exists in it's entirety right now. I don't know the subscription numbers, or how they breakdown per shard.. but I'd guess that the majority of players play on NON-ALL Fel Rules Shard. (ie.. all shards except Siege).

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't Siege an "All Fel Rules"?

Your question exists in it's entirety right now. I don't know the subscription numbers, or how they breakdown per shard.. but I'd guess that the majority of players play on NON-ALL Fel Rules Shard. (ie.. all shards except Siege).

Yeah, ditz here forgot to mention "Not Siege" in the original question, but realized she should have said something after it was up.

But I think Siege is different enough to not necessarily use it as an indicator.

 

[D'Amavir]

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't Siege an "All Fel Rules"?

Your question exists in it's entirety right now. I don't know the subscription numbers, or how they breakdown per shard.. but I'd guess that the majority of players play on NON-ALL Fel Rules Shard. (ie.. all shards except Siege).

Siege is also the one character per account shard. And the 'gaining skills is much different' shard. And the 'home of Rico' shard. So using the numbers there to answer where most people would rather play is a flawed assessment, in my opinion.

p.s., That last description of Siege was said humorously so no bannings please. Unless, of course, you ban those narrowed eyes!

 

[Draxous]

Look at the time frame in which I wrote what I wrote. It was from 2000 to 2003... which is when Trammel was very much a part of UO. Whoever I fought and killed HAD a choice in the matter.

You aren't reading the posts and this is proof you are just here to find an argument to argue with.

You have tons of opinions, but I no longer care what your opinion is as you don't read what you respond to and much like in the other thread are just sitting at your computer screen itching to respond with a "well I disagree and this is my opinion."

Have a nice day.

He got me...

I did miss the time frame in his post. I guess I know my "place" now...

Whatevs.

Its not a big deal but I'm not going to argue with you just to argue. If you want to discuss this, then start a new thread rather than derail your own thread... I think the discussion of this topic has gone well enough that I need not add to the derailment of it any further than I already have and am (with this post.)

Have a nice day!

PS. It is gorgeous outside!!! (At least it is here in Virginia!) So I'm off to enjoy it!

 

[shanshu]

*Still waiting for a response from Black Rain.*

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Its not a big deal but I'm not going to argue with you just to argue. If you want to discuss this, then start a new thread rather than derail your own thread... I think the discussion of this topic has gone well enough that I need not add to the derailment of it any further than I already have and am (with this post.)

Have a nice day!

PS. It is gorgeous outside!!! (At least it is here in Virginia!) So I'm off to enjoy it!

It's my thread and I will derail it if I want to!!

Lucky you, it is gloomy and nasty here in NC.

Come on, don't give up on the discussion cause I disagreed with you! If either of us had done that, where would the Classic Shard thread be??

You have a thicker skin than that, don't let me down here...

 

[MalagAste]

How to explain this right is going to be difficult.....

First off... I didn't begin playing until AFTER trammel... so I have no fond memories of the days of old....

I picked up UO because it looked like fun.... I could have a home... tame beasts..... dragons and all..... and most of all..... I could RP.... was all I ever wanted.......

Now.... that's not to say I don't go to fel... I do on occasion when the mood strikes me....

But let me tell you something about the vast majority of folk and their impressions of Fel.. most of them are from a gray screen curtesy of some swift talking scam artist who used some exploit or other trick to get this person to fel and then he and his 4 or 5 friends ganked the poor twit ......

Or they go to fel and repeatedly run across cheaters and hackers who cheat and scam and hack their way around and the person ends up losing insured/blessed and otherwise "safe" items.....

After about 3 or 4 such encounters most folk avoid fel like the plague... the few who actually do go there like myself do so knowing full well what they risk by entering any red gate.....

My answer is no and it will remain NO until something is done about the cheating... and the exploiting..... and scammers. Which as we all know isn't bloody well likely to ever happen.

 

[Uvtha]

Throw it back to the old rules now and every "blue" player not only would be risking their life every time they left a guard zone, but rather they would be committing suicide within moments. There would be death squads everywhere. The joy of doing the things they love would be replaced with having to PvP for everything.

I think thats a BIT of an exageration.

 

[Viper09]

All arguments aside. Yes, I would still play.

However it would draw more people away than bring people back.

 

[Uriah Heep]

I voted yes, I would play if it were all open PvP as in the old days.

BUT, I will qualify that vote by saying:
It has to be like the old days...Gm armor is tops, or else you gotta let the arties and runics drop from low level monsters like flies. Otherwise, you are gonna lose all the casual players for good.
No way you could have open pvp, and have half the shard playing with ornis and crimmys and be fully artied up, and the rest of the shard be casual players running around in lower level crafted armor and weapons.
That's a lot of the problem today, that people don't remember and don't want to talk about. In the old days, everyone was equal, and had the chance to be equal, even as a once or twice a week gamer. Gm armor, weps, were all anyone had. Some would hit the jackpot occasionally and get a magic weapon (power, force, might, vanq) but even the pks seldom carried em, because they might lose em.

And the pks that did carry their prized weaps and armor, groups would hunt em, and when they were found, those prizes would belong to someone else.
Kill insurance, so we can loot the pks, make everything ingame available to the casual player so we can compete with the powergamer, (without having to buy gold to pay 50 mil for some outrageously overpriced artie or armor piece), and the playing field will be fairly level.

If you want this, it has to be like it used to be. Everything is available to everyone easily, the only difference between the hardcore pvper and the have-to self defense pvper, should be mindset only. That is how it used to be.

*edit* One more note...Remember, everyone was on one facet at that time also. So if you had 250 online on your shard tonight, only a few of them would be playin on their reds. Because the vast majority of players would be glad to go help hunt them if you yelled for help, causing them to lose their goods if they got ganked. That sword cuts both ways, remember. The reason Fel has the rep it has now is because whereas the population (when we all were there before trammel) used to be low in pks/hardcore pvpers, that percentage NOW is way higher, because that group is the only one left in Fel. (yeah I know a few of ya stayed and play there that don't pvp, but you are the minority )
Of course when you let the good guys abandon a facet, the only ones left are the bad guys, don't take a genius to figure that out. /rant

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

That's a lot of the problem today, that people don't remember and don't want to talk about.

Some of us do. Visit the Classic Shard thread.

 

[Lore Master]

Recently a debate has been going about a Classic Shard. Let's leave that out of the equation for the moment though. I am just curious to see how many players that post on Stratics would leave UO if there was suddenly no non-PvP areas, besides towns...the way UO started.


I am asking because I am curious how the introduction of Trammel affected the evolution of UO.

Keep in mind, this is not a request for there to be no Trammel, not a request for anything really. I am just curious as to how many, and possibly who, will vote which way.


Thanks.

The day UO went back to all PVP areas except town guard zones would be the day i quit UO for good thank God that will never happen though. To me there is nothing fun about pvp killing monsters is fun but not pvp but thats just me.