If there is ANYTHING in PvP that needs an immediate fix

[Sir Morder]

This is completely false. I have been hit plenty of times by a flamestrike when the greater dragon or mare was not even on screen, or line of sight (other side of a building, for example) it is not a firebreath isolated problem.

Not sure what happened to my previous post but you are completely wrong. I play a tamer from time to time and I know for a fact (as anyother tamer would agree) that it's IMPOSSIBLE to have a pet target anything thats not in it's line of sight. If it's targeted you then you were in its line of sight and the tamer targeted you, plain and simple. Obviously your just another tamer basher cry baby.

 

[Larry]

Another quick fix: Make stealthers killable.

Smoke bombs make them invincible. The top faction point holders are all rez kill archers. They pop out for killshots and vanish. They never die because there's no way to catch/kill them.

Fix? Make smokebombs not work if you are flagged. That way it remains defensive like it should.

 

[EDA_GL]

http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?p=958032#post958032

I was the first to announce the idea of having animal form take a control slot.
That simple change would be awesome! Bring back the beetles!:loser:


"O NOS! Do you have any idea how many PvM tamers run ninja as an assisting aid!? That will ruin my entire faming experience!"

 

[Sir Morder]

Making a post about ruining a PvMr's farming experience is not what this is about. Why would anyone want to ruin a farmers time. This is about fixing pvp.

 

[EDA_GL]

It was an attempt, failed attempt based on your response, to mock the trammies that will complain if they make animal form require a slot.
To touch on many a topics mentioned in this thread, from a Devs POV:
Well try to get something in the next patch for that....
Interesting idea, well look into that.....
I never looked at it like that before....
Make a note of that idea, looks promising....


All the while they are making these notes on their toilet paper. You can figure out where they take our input, and what they do with it!

Tamers pets should get knocked down to "regular pet" skills/stats when entering any location in fel. The beefy guys, greater drags and dread mares, should only get a bonus in tram rule sets.

 

[Kellgory]

One of the quickest fixes would be to limit the amount of damage a pet could inflict on another person. They could have it tied to the amount of pet slots the pet takes up so that a 2 slot pet and a 3 slot pet combined damage output would be capped at the same rate as a 5 slot pet. This would have no effect for PVM. I knew that at one of last years town hall meetings they mentioned that they were looking into the damage from GD's, but that was about the last I heard of them doing anything about it.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

But the animal form problem is simply one piece of the puzzle. It ist one particular thing that needs addressed here.

...

Animal Form is not a problem, running away never killed anyone. How can running away be OP?

It IS one thing and that thing is the same thing its always been and the same thing that never gets changed because people fail to realise that it lies 100% soley with Tamers and their OP pets.

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

Smoke bombs make them invincible.

No they don't.

The top faction point holders are all rez kill archers. They pop out for killshots and vanish. They never die because there's no way to catch/kill them.

You don't need smoke bombs for that.

Fix? Make smokebombs not work if you are flagged. That way it remains defensive like it should.

That is the entire purpose of smoke bombs.

 

[Sir Morder]

...

Animal Form is not a problem, running away never killed anyone. How can running away be OP?

It IS one thing and that thing is the same thing its always been and the same thing that never gets changed because people fail to realise that it lies 100% soley with Tamers and their OP pets.

So you don't see a problem with a mage being able to hold explosion, and when a targer comes on screen, the mage hits his target then follows up with a flame strike and hits his target for 60-70 damage at 70 fire resist? No one is able to see that a mage is holding explosion so its like a free 25-30 pts damage before the fight has even started. This isn't overpowered to you?

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

So you don't see a problem with a mage being able to hold explosion, and when a targer comes on screen, the mage hits his target then follows up with a flame strike and hits his target for 60-70 damage at 70 fire resist? No one is able to see that a mage is holding explosion so its like a free 25-30 pts damage before the fight has even started. This isn't overpowered to you?

Gerbils.

*My response has as much to do with what I quoted as your post did to mine*

 

[Bama]

Bushido, macer, parry, tactics healing anat, chivalry
Dragon slayer mace 20ssi, 40di, 28 lightning
EOO, CWep, few apples , cures and heal pots and bandies
hit tamer it runs off , toe to toe and drop the dragon. its nott hat hard
the tamer has no mount run dragon off and go kill him
if ur himan drop a attunement and gift of renu
if tamer archer disarm him then proceed if hes a mage bleed him and proceede
unless ur getting ganked you should be fine
and those 60 fireballs are rare

now try klilling a necro mage that spams heal and blood oaths you with a final spike. oh and then there are the running full speed flame strikes up your pipe

Now try a 4/6 chiv dexer with bushido and parry

ok try a parry mage with no tactics required to do disarm


Alll templates have their heavey areas not just tamers

tamers with supers are alot easier to kill than tamers/bush swords with cu's and Dread mares

 

[Sir Morder]

This is one of the funniest posts i've seen in awhile. Can i ask when the last time you played?

 

[Speaking the Truth]

This is completely false. I have been hit plenty of times by a flamestrike when the greater dragon or mare was not even on screen, or line of sight (other side of a building, for example) it is not a firebreath isolated problem.

He's right, I've been hit while running down the bottom bridge which has no LOS the pet is on the island and I'm down the bridge. Things like lightning which have no delay. I've had it happen plenty of times being off screen and definatly not in line of sight.

My guess anyone defending that pets aren't over powered is afraid they will lose their pvp "skill" when the balance comes in on them.

 

[Flutter]

This is completely false. I have been hit plenty of times by a flamestrike when the greater dragon or mare was not even on screen, or line of sight (other side of a building, for example) it is not a firebreath isolated problem.

He's right, I've been hit while running down the bottom bridge which has no LOS the pet is on the island and I'm down the bridge. Things like lightning which have no delay. I've had it happen plenty of times being off screen and definatly not in line of sight.

My guess anyone defending that pets aren't over powered is afraid they will lose their pvp "skill" when the balance comes in on them.

Yeah there's some kind of bug with the code that once the target is found by the pet a set group of skills/firebreath/whatever is going to go off on that target no matter where that target is. Visable/Hidden/Three screens away/Around a corner/In a house no matter.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

This is completely false. I have been hit plenty of times by a flamestrike when the greater dragon or mare was not even on screen, or line of sight (other side of a building, for example) it is not a firebreath isolated problem.

You may have seen the animation and taken the damage once you have ran off screen, but you were targeted while on screen and the pet had LOS...period.



...........................................


Also, to all those whining so much about GDs...come to Atlantic, I will have 2 of my guildmates show you that they can stand toe to toe with my most powerful Greater Dragon, Tiamat. She is one of the toughest I have come across, but I have two guildies that she has much trouble killing. Why?

Because they know how to play against monsters, and by extension, tamers. If I were to try to kill either one of them using a pet, they would hand me my ass on a plate.


I quote Flutter here from another thread:

"
Just learn. Stop trying to nerf someone else due to your lack of ability."

 

[Lord GOD(GOD)]

This is one of the funniest posts i've seen in awhile. Can i ask when the last time you played?

Sure if you rephrase it so it actually makes sense & if I can ask what the **** Mages pre casting Explosion has to do with a discussion about Animal Form & Tamers.

 

[WarUltima]

Also, to all those whining so much about GDs...come to Atlantic, I will have 2 of my guildmates show you that they can stand toe to toe with my most powerful Greater Dragon, Tiamat. She is one of the toughest I have come across, but I have two guildies that she has much trouble killing. Why?

Because they know how to play against monsters, and by extension, tamers. If I were to try to kill either one of them using a pet, they would hand me my ass on a plate.


I quote Flutter here from another thread:

"
Just learn. Stop trying to nerf someone else due to your lack of ability."

It's not hard to try to toe to toe with a GD using evasion template if the tamer is very bad. I am not trying to diss you, you are either a very bad tamer that dont do anything to help your pet or you are playing a pure pvm template in PvP.

You really want to see what is balanced then try a good old mage try to take on a "good" tamer and a GD on a 18x18 plot with zero offscreen allowed. This is the easiest way to try out the power between two templates. I dont mind you get your kick ass bushido dexer friends to TC, I will use a GD with wresl mage tamer no offscreen fight on a little house plot. Both side on foot like a real duel. See how they fare against a GD and a tamer who actually know wtf they are doing. The second their weapon falls into their backpack they will die instantly.

Secondly, why do I need evasion parry and run like a little girl just to be able to compete against a tamer, I am running for my life 80% of the time to wait for a good RNG roll where I can hit the tamer 4 times in a row, tamer isnt good enough to heal, and the GD chaining only Weaken Feeblemind and whiff on me 3 times in a row and didnt choose to fire breathe?

By your logic everything in game is great, and tamer do NOT have anymore power than other templates. Now when WoD instant kill archers were around and was being changed were you one of those guys saying "instant kill is OK, fair and square, stop nerfing my instant kill power and learn to play"?

With your logic why were 4/6 mages changed? sdi capped? 4/6 chiv mage removed? WoD AI instant kill removed? Unbreakable Nerve strike nerfed? Dismount attack on hiryu nerfed? Using lance to dismount anyone on mount removed? No cooldown evasion nerfed? Machine Gun archer nerfed? Moving Shot AI removed? AI damage capped? Perfection no longer works on players? Chained special move mana cost doubled? Please explain there are so many changes to weaken certain templates when according to you the game is ALWAYS BALANCED with ZERO FLAW. When I was killed in 1 shot from 10 tiles away when I had all 70s with 125hp by a WoD AI, I lost because my lack of player skill?

If you want to talk about player skill, tamer really dont require too much of it. It's not hard to be a good tamer, and it's not hard to turn a tamer + GD into an one man army, as long as YOU know how to play YOUR tamer right. Currently there's no template in game thats capable of dishing out 125+ damage nearly instantly (like a WoD archer) from 3 screens away with the exception of tamers.

Just because there are certain players better than you that you cant just "all kill" and win UO doesnt mean that you are not overpowered. It shouldnt require Evasion/Parry/Music/Disco/Peace to kill a tamer... and these skills are simply used to SURVIVE from the pets along.

Again, there are good tamers and bad ones. The facts that there are bad tamers out there who cant kill anything even if they are given the best weapon in game doesnt justify that "the game is fine, lern2play".

 

[WarUltima]

@ Morgana

You dont have to read my article. Your logic revolves around everything in game in any given point of time is fine. Then please explain...

Why were 4/6 mages changed? sdi capped? 4/6 chiv mage removed? WoD AI instant kill removed? Unbreakable Nerve strike nerfed? Dismount attack on hiryu nerfed? Using lance to dismount anyone on mount removed? No cooldown evasion nerfed? Machine Gun archer nerfed? Moving Shot AI removed? AI damage capped? Perfection no longer works on players? Chained special move mana cost doubled? Please explain there are so many changes to weaken certain templates when according to you the game is ALWAYS BALANCED with ZERO FLAW. When I was killed in 1 shot from 10 tiles away when I had all 70s with 125hp by a WoD AI, I lost because my lack of player skill?

This makes it easier. I explained ALL my arguments against tamers and live examples. Please explain the above questions to actually fortify your arguments... I am tired of your "TAMERS GDs AND DREADS ARE OK BECAUSE I SAID SO AND I SOMETIMES CANT KILL PEOPLE!"

 

[ColterDC]

Is it really any wonder why Tamer and/or Stealth threads always turn into giant flame fests.

Considering 75%+ of the remaining UO population are nothing but giant ******* who either run around invisible and/or with their giant overpowered tank (Greater Dragons)

Of course they're going defend their no skill templates to the death. I mean god forbid any of these clowns had to play a pure mage as their main.

If you have Stealth and/or Taming on your PvP char, then you are a *****

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

@ Morgana

Your logic revolves around everything in game in any given point of time is fine.

No, my logic revolves around me not having to be able to kill every other template in the game without being willing to change anything I do or use.

My logic also revolves around ... well, logic!


Here is the logical position:

'My current template, and real world skills, do not work as well against a specific template as I would like...I should make some changes and learn how to fight that template.'


Here is the illogical position:

'My current template, and real world skills, do not work as well against a specific template as I would like...so I will not change a g@ddamn thing and I will whine like a 3 year that dropped her ice cream in a pile of dogsh!t 24/7 until I convince the devs to break the game and eliminate the template I suck against from being even remotely viable in PvP.'

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

If you have Stealth and/or Taming on your PvP char, then you are a *****

It's this mentality that creates an atmosphere in which these kinds of threads are dismissed as senseless whining.


Thank your proving my point.

 

[Exgirlfriend]

id have to say...

1) spamming of special moves
2) EP
3) pets, or so i hear lol
4) being hit for multi DOT spells
5) massive amounts of val hammer made weapons.



ok, i admit i play a nox/mage for the challange LOL

 

[WarUltima]

No, my logic revolves around me not having to be able to kill every other template in the game without being willing to change anything I do or use.

My logic also revolves around ... well, logic!


Here is the logical position:

'My current template, and real world skills, do not work as well against a specific template as I would like...I should make some changes and learn how to fight that template.'


Here is the illogical position:

'My current template, and real world skills, do not work as well against a specific template as I would like...so I will not change a g@ddamn thing and I will whine like a 3 year that dropped her ice cream in a pile of dogsh!t 24/7 until I convince the devs to break the game and eliminate the template I suck against from being even remotely viable in PvP.'

You still failed to explain why pets with the ability to instant killing another player from 3 screens away if RNG goes right, this is same as WoD Archer if RNG allows them to hit they win, and same as unbreakable nerve strike if RNG allow them and their pet to hit their target consectively they can instant kill their target.

Your inability to play a tamer template really cant justify other good tamers (like myself) arent overpowered.

Please stop your pointless biased tamer views, I have more tamers than you do, and if you dont believe me, you are welcome to check me out.

Oh yea because I am one of the baddest tamer out there your illogical standpoint dont even apply to me. @ you... Stop whining that people are trying to nerf you and make things balanced for the world. @myself, please nerf my template if I am overpowered, I prefer skill over overpowered pets. And if you do nerf me I will change my template just like that.

Again...

You still failed to explain why pets with the ability to instant killing another player from 3 screens away if RNG goes right, this is same as WoD Archer if RNG allows them to hit they win, and same as unbreakable nerve strike if RNG allow them and their pet to hit their target consectively they can instant kill their target.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

You still failed to explain why pets with the ability to instant killing another player from 3 screens away if RNG goes right, this is same as WoD Archer if RNG allows them to hit they win, and same as unbreakable nerve strike if RNG allow them and their pet to hit their target consectively they can instant kill their target.

And you failed to understand that no pet has the ability to target any player from three screens away.

It is not my fault if you do not understand the way the game works.

I have tried explaining this to you before, but it is like explaining Physics to monkey apparently.

I have seen players "insta" killed by many things, and its not just pets.

Quit whining and go learn how to play the game. You apparently need someone to explain the mechanics behind it first...maybe then you might stand a chance.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

my take on things....

if you HEAR a GD or dreadmare roar, be prepared to get a warm backside sooner than later.

advice?

play a mage...you can actually paralyze pets (GD not so much if trained...but that is what a deamon is for) get up a greater heal as soon as you hear the pet roar...

if you play an archer vs. this temp...dont complain...your temp is gimp too! (and many of you play dismount dreadmare archers...goofy gimp limp shrimps IMO)

 

[ColterDC]

I have seen players "insta" killed by many things, and its not just pets.

And any of those other "things" has been removed. (AI,WoD,Perfection)

Can you please provide 1 example of another template that can take their opponent from full health to dead in 1 second?

The only template currently capable of such a feat is a tamer w/GD.

 

[Restroom Cowboy]

And any of those other "things" has been removed. (AI,WoD,Perfection)

Can you please provide 1 example of another template that can take their opponent from full health to dead in 1 second?

The only template currently capable of such a feat is a tamer w/GD.

Given the right circumstances...and good RNG rolls, there are a few templates (with the right gear) that can finish a char in the same time it takes this temp.
like:
bush doggie dexxer
necro dexxer
archer tamer
mages too!

GD templates are IMO one of the weaker temps out there...

 

[ColterDC]

Let's ignore the fact that 2 of the templates you mentioned are tamers (I should have been more specific and said "Show me a Non-Tamer template)

necro dexxer:
The fastest weapon swing is 1.25. No way any dexxer is killing anyone in less than 1 second, even if they are casting some necro spells at the same time.

mages:
Are you serious, how the hell is any mage going to take someone from full health to dead in 1 second?

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

And any of those other "things" has been removed. (AI,WoD,Perfection)

Can you please provide 1 example of another template that can take their opponent from full health to dead in 1 second?

The only template currently capable of such a feat is a tamer w/GD.

Depends entirely on the opponent.


Also, like I said, I have seen many people stand up to my Greater Dragon. They know how to play vs. Greater Dragons.

Why is it that any template any given PvPer doesn't play = gimp?


This whole thread is one great big whine-fest...

...so I am out of it.

 

[ColterDC]

like I said, I have seen many people stand up to my Greater Dragon. They know how to play vs. Greater Dragons.

Let me just take a wild guess about your claim.

You stood there doing nothing while some buddy of yours stood toe to toe with your GD right?

So if it was an actual fight, and the tamer wasn't just standing there doing nothing, but instead was dropping spells, hitting with a weapon, whatever that would vastly change the outcome of your supposed experiences of some buddy of yours standing there beating on your GD while you were just a casual observer.

 

[Green Meanie]

for morganas benifet it should also be stated there is a HUGE diffrance between a good pvp dragon and a good pvm dragon. In pvm all that realy matters is the dragons resists. Id like to see that person stand there toe to toe against the dragon ive seen on LS that has 1016 hps 134 wrestling 125 resist 120 tatics. Esp with said person spaming darts and disarms on there opponents

 

[Skwiz]

Depends entirely on the opponent.


Also, like I said, I have seen many people stand up to my Greater Dragon. They know how to play vs. Greater Dragons.

Why is it that any template any given PvPer doesn't play = gimp?


This whole thread is one great big whine-fest...

...so I am out of it.

You have no idea what balanace in pvp is do you.. All templates that have the killing power of the GD Dragon (in the past) Have all been completely nerfed or changed because they are "Overpowered"

Yes some templates (Some lol) can stand up to a dragon.. but lets use this as a example..

Ninja Stealth Tamer is effective aginst all but what.. Three Skills? Peace Disco Chiv?

So.. you are saying that we all need to adapt correct? So lets break this down.. We all Gimp ourselves to fight tamers (Meaning we pick up Music Peace/ Music Disco/ Chiv) On all of our pvp templates.. inorder to fight ONE template.. strange.. Where as.. a Animal lore/Animal Taming is effective aginst All but 3 Skills in this game.. Thats a very strange "Balance"

Next.. Yes a Mage can do massive damage at once.. Even more so, A Necro Mage.. but lets Consider this..

Explosion (Interruptable)
Flamestrike (INterruptable)
Evil Omen (Interruptable)
Pain Spike (Interruptable and damage varries on a Skill, Magic Resist)

Now.. the kicker.. In order for this combo to be lethal, they have to be Corpseskin/Cursed.. which is 2 more spells which are ... interruptable, and can be removed each 15 Seconds by an item which requires 0 Mana/Health/Skill. or Chiv.

NOW!! the best part... Mages also stop to cast (Hard to believe i know) So at any point in that combo.. the person who is getting attacked can just.. move off screen. Use a Heal and Bam.. Combo ruined.. effectiveness destroyed.

Tamers though..

Bite (Non interruptable, though is affected by DCI/Parry, BUT dragons can get above 120 Wrestling.. 35-55 Damage)

Bleed (Which will be followed by the bite.. sometimes even if the bite doesnt land, Non interrutable, Can mess up All forms of healing, Confidence, mage heals, bandaids, chiv, spiritspeak, Except for potions. and will do At least 22 Damage unless removed)

Fireball (Non interruptable, can be used while someone is on screen, can be fired when someone is off screen, will do instane ammounts of damage for a Single Ability, Is based off of your suits resist, though being completely undebuffed will still do 60+ Damage)


As well as various other spells which are also.. Non interruptable, You cannot prepare for because the dragon doesnt use Power Words for Casting.. You cannot judge how many or how quickly the dragon will cast because it doesnt have 2/5 2/6 4/6 Casting like player casting skills require.

While On top of.. a 900+ Health Pool.. which is what.. 8x the ammount of a pvper with a *Sick* HP Inc suit on?

Now lets make it even more intersting.. lets say the Tamer is a

Archer / Ninja *For form only* / Healing tamer..

Able to use Ninja Form to Get away from anything, can use bandaids on the run While in animal form as well as potions.

Can use a Dismounting bow which will do very nice damage due to having Tactics/Anatomy.

And has a 900+ HP meat shield to keep himself alive.

Lets look at some numbers..

Dismount (Spell Proc / Anatomy / Tactics bonus / DI ) Around.. 35-50?

Bite (Due to dragons jumping on target when commanded to kill) 35-55? With Bleed? + 22 = *AT MINIMUM* 57 (With bleed interrupts)

Fireball *At Minimum* 55

And Spells.. but lets say it only does an 11 Damage lightning.. So whats that.

At minimum 158 Damage.. Which can *NOT be interrupted aside from bleed* Can *NOT* Be prepared for except Fireball (If you are lucky and catch the annimation)

All the while.. the tamer can ALSO moving shot you and the dragon can obviously cast more than 1 lightning.

No other template has this kind of killing power, No other template Has this kind of Defensive Power, No other template requires people to Run Certain Non pvp skills (Such As Music / Dicso / Peace) to fight.

All it comes down to is the people (Like Morgan) Who are enjoying this complete overpoweredness are oblivious to the fact that these dragons Alone are overpowered.. and when in conjunction with Any other Offensive/Defensive skills makes the GD tamer the most powerful template on UO Currently.

Yes mages/dexxers/necros ect ect all have Very nice Combos and specials which allow them to do sick damage, but ALL of these are affected in some way by A Damage Cap, Spell Interruption, Range Check, and can be stopped in some way by Items/Skills which are *Meant* For Pvp.. Unlike having to take up 1 to 4 Non Pvp Skills (Chiv/Music/Peace/Disco) in order to combat ONE Creature, The Greater Dragon.

Open your eyes..

 

[Speaking the Truth]

She was good at having no valid points and just insisting everyone was whining. So obvoiusly everyone is a bad pvper and dragons ARENT over powered, she said so.

And I'm being sarcastic I don't want you to quote me and act like I think you have a good point

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Let me just take a wild guess about your claim.

You stood there doing nothing while some buddy of yours stood toe to toe with your GD right?

So if it was an actual fight, and the tamer wasn't just standing there doing nothing, but instead was dropping spells, hitting with a weapon, whatever that would vastly change the outcome of your supposed experiences of some buddy of yours standing there beating on your GD while you were just a casual observer.

The last thing I am going to waste my time in this whine-fest of a thread with:

If it were an actual fight, he would run off, make my dragon follow him, then double back and kick my ass because I have 350 pts tied up in taming skills and cannot hope to beat a good necro/dexxer with my magery alone.

 

[slayer888]

Well, i seen some enemies dragon could firebreath me immediately as soon as I got dismounted.

It just shoots a 60 hp damage fireball on me immediately.

Normally, super dragon firebreath takes about 3 to 5 seconds to charge up.

But recently, it seems the enemies dragon just firebreath right away.

Is there a trick to it?

 

[WarUltima]

The last thing I am going to waste my time in this whine-fest of a thread with:

If it were an actual fight, he would run off, make my dragon follow him, then double back and kick my ass because I have 350 pts tied up in taming skills and cannot hope to beat a good necro/dexxer with my magery alone.

Real "PvP" tamer will not spend more than 220 points in taming and lore and the majority spent less points than 220. Out of the 3 PvP tamers I have only one runs vet which is at 50 (w/ taming and lore totalling 250) the other two do not have vet at all. The one with vet is my legendary mage tamer riding dread+bake/mare using +30 vet set to rez my pets. Precast exp curse dismount all kill fs or paralyze kills most people fast too, and if its a bard discording my pet (i will STILL sick my dread on him because discord dont weaken my 45dmg fire breathe at all), I will mage own him myself. I dont let my pet do all the work and I am a decent mage(120 eval/resist) even without my pets. (I will ride the mare and mage the bard down with my dread on hit casting and FBing)

My second tamer is the fishy gimpy shrimpy 4/6 chiv EP bushido evasion nerve striking tamer riding dread + nightmare (disarm, nerve, all kill nearly instantly kill any dexer instantly), I do not have vet and my pet have never died in PvP thanks to log in and out trick, and if my pets do die, my pvm tamer/tamer mage can rez them. This guy NEVER dies and does well 1v3 to 5. Again I help my pets by using disarm or nerve strike, sometimes double riding swipe all kill just to add oil to the fire.

My 3rd tamer is the infamous EP 4/6 chiv archer tamer with anat and healing using dread + bake for field fight and GD for choke point fights. 1v1 I can drop anyone fast with a drive by dismount all kill moving shot spam with my hit spell 40ssi balanced heavy, the only thing that can survive is probably evasion gimps. Again I dont just all kill and stand still, I actually DISMOUNT then all kill THEN CHAIN THE **** OUT OF MOVING SHOT. I have tactics and anat my moving shot HURTS, I wont even mention the two magic casting pets nuking the poor dismounted opponent.

4th tamer is PvM legendary disco tamer with 120 real taming lore and vet. THIS is the template you are trying to use against other full out PvP template players.

As you see I do not use GD as regular main pet because if anything goes wrong I can mount my dread or mare and dip the **** out.

The first mistake you have already made is to waste points in vet on a PVP tamer. You are basically trying to use a half asses pvp half assed pvm tamer template against other pure PvP template and possibly "better" players. You saying tamer isnt overpowered in PvP isnt valid because you dont even play a real PvP tamer template, its like me crying my bard tamer got owned by a necromage/archer because I dont even have resist/defensive skills...

YOU kept on crying about adapt and adjust template, yet you FAILED to develope a PvP tamer correctly and refuse to adapt to real PvP tamer template.

I fully understand how pet casting works better than most and especially you. You can see many of my post explaining pet mechnisms and the casting methods pets use, you read them before but you ran out of stuff to say I guess. But knowing the fact that pet initiated the casting while people on screen doesnt change the fact the players ARE IN FACT getting killed 3 screens away.

If you need more advises on how the game works and how to build a solid PvP tamer please PM me, I dont want you feel underpowered as a tamer, because thats the last thing you should expect when you have a dread or a GD standing next to you.

 

[Skwiz]

The last thing I am going to waste my time in this whine-fest of a thread with:

If it were an actual fight, he would run off, make my dragon follow him, then double back and kick my ass because I have 350 pts tied up in taming skills and cannot hope to beat a good necro/dexxer with my magery alone.

Thanks for ignoring my whole post btw..

Also.. you must be completely terrible (I do not play a tamer and it seems i know more about it than you do)

With the recent pet command revamp, a Pet that is told to Follow, will follow even if someone Flags it.. Casts on it.. Hits it.. or does any other negative affect to the pet.. The New commands make them completely ignore outside affects when commanded to do something.

Therefore.. even if someone strangles a dragon.. simply by saying all follow me a few times.. the dragon will never go away from a tamer.


Clueless

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Also.. you must be completely terrible

Yep...and have been for 11+ years.

 

[Skwiz]

Yep...and have been for 11+ years.

I've been playing UO for Pure PVP for 3 Years now ( I dont PvM or quest or any of that **** ) Within this time it *Seems* that i have a larger knowledge of the game than you do.

Imo.. The only reason you are defending tamers is (Exactly like all tamer defenders) It is a template which is vastly overpowered and requires almost no skill. Therefore someone, like yourself, whos pvp "Prowless" is that of a "Newbie" is still able to dominate the more skillful players without having the required "Skill" Of the other templates.

 

[WarUltima]

Well, i seen some enemies dragon could firebreath me immediately as soon as I got dismounted.

It just shoots a 60 hp damage fireball on me immediately.

Normally, super dragon firebreath takes about 3 to 5 seconds to charge up.

But recently, it seems the enemies dragon just firebreath right away.

Is there a trick to it?

There's a trick to make dread warhorse to breathe fire immidiately after issuing all kill command this will result in instant fire breathe + double cast of 2 spells seemlessly and if you are within 4 to 5 tiles from the enemy pets tend to "jump" right next to your opponent and attempt a melee hit, if you know how to do it it makes dread horse combo extremely deadly. (instant Hit + FB + 2 spells).

I do not know how to do it on GD but I will test a little see if I can figure it out.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

I've been playing UO for Pure PVP for 3 Years now ( I dont PvM or quest or any of that **** ) Within this time it *Seems* that i have a larger knowledge of the game than you do.

Sweetie, I have forgotten more about UO PvP than you will ever know.

That's why I just really, really, couldn't care less about you, your opinions, or the whining in this thread.


Face it. Things change. Always have, always will

Right now, you are getting your jock-strap all bound up over tamers...5 years from now, if you are still around, it'll be something else. And those of us that have been around since day 1 will just adapt, shut up, and move on.

 

[Harlequin]

Actually, what the OP described affects PvMers too.

Regarding having a good connection speed and being able to outrun the fireball animation, I do that quite often for fun. Why do I say for fun? Because in this case, it's just the graphics engine playing catchup, if you actually look at your HP, you will see that the damage has already been done.

Now, having experienced the above, I am pretty sure that what the OP means isn't just the graphics, because I have experienced the same thing in PvM.

My main is a stealth mage, many times have I smokebombed and been able to stealth several paces before a flamestrike hits. Explosions I can understand, since there's a delayed effect, but non-delay spells like flamestrikes should not stick once I am hidden.

Though I've not seen the same from dragon breath since I avoid pitting my mage against dragons...

 

[Mistura]

There is definitely an issue with delayed offscreen casting from monsters.

For example, when running through the portal to the despise champ from fire, where you have the two red mages, I freequently get frozen with paralize when i'm several steps into the despise champ!

This happens alot and with something like paralise it should never be the case as its supposed to go off instantly.

 

[Harlequin]

Ahh yes, happens with paralyze too!

 

[WarUltima]

Ahh yes, happens with paralyze too!

Also happens with weaken/poison/lighting and ALL supposedly instant spells.

Monsters(and pets) definetely has double casting ability. And after they've aquired a target within reasonable range (I am assuming same as magery spells range) and "instantly" queued 2 random spells + FB (if capable) even if the player only remained in range for as short as a "tick" (0.25 second) and 0.25 sec later the player has gone out of screen(s) and even if the player has already broke line of sight or even when into a private "double walled" house both of the spells will STILL hit after it finishes casting. The time it takes for a spell to finish casting is yet to be clearified but in this case it doesnt really matter...

We all KNOW for a fact pets casting is as fishy as crap. Pets has the ability to cast like every mage player's dream with many many "bonus" attached to them, like instant 2 spell casts, casting on the run, protection with no drawback. Yet there are still many ignorant players out there trying to convince the world "naaa you guys are just imagining things" even if they are fully aware of the issues.

 

[archite666]

Actually, what the OP described affects PvMers too.

Regarding having a good connection speed and being able to outrun the fireball animation, I do that quite often for fun. Why do I say for fun? Because in this case, it's just the graphics engine playing catchup, if you actually look at your HP, you will see that the damage has already been done.

Now, having experienced the above, I am pretty sure that what the OP means isn't just the graphics, because I have experienced the same thing in PvM.

My main is a stealth mage, many times have I smokebombed and been able to stealth several paces before a flamestrike hits. Explosions I can understand, since there's a delayed effect, but non-delay spells like flamestrikes should not stick once I am hidden.

Though I've not seen the same from dragon breath since I avoid pitting my mage against dragons...

Hm not sure I understand this statement.

The fireball can and will hit you from an EXTREMLY far distance. Mind you even if we agreed it was only 1 screen. For those of you that don't play mages, their casting range is alot less than 1 screen. So for something to hit you off screen is just unbelievable.

I can't count the times, iv circles around tamers trying to kill them, while getting wracked by the dragon, only to run away with plenty of hp, go to cast a G heal and be hit by the damn fireball.

For those newbie tamers that don't think there is anyway to synergise a greater dragons ability, try necromancy.

There is a certain tamer that will corpse skin/evil omen/all kill you all day. You know why? You know what kind of damage the firebreath alone does to you that that stuff on you? I was evil omened firebreathed the other day and I believe it did 85 with 70 fire. That is crazy. I have never been hit by the firebreath fire corpse skinned but I can only imagen the devastation.

 

[archite666]

I've been playing UO for Pure PVP for 3 Years now ( I dont PvM or quest or any of that **** ) Within this time it *Seems* that i have a larger knowledge of the game than you do.

Imo.. The only reason you are defending tamers is (Exactly like all tamer defenders) It is a template which is vastly overpowered and requires almost no skill. Therefore someone, like yourself, whos pvp "Prowless" is that of a "Newbie" is still able to dominate the more skillful players without having the required "Skill" Of the other templates.

ALL HAIL SKWIZ!!!

Thank you sir for hitting the nail right on the head.

This is the entire backdrop to our current problem.

A shrine is being built in your honor as we speak. Seriously I couldn't have said it better.

 

[Skwiz]

Sweetie, I have forgotten more about UO PvP than you will ever know.

That's why I just really, really, couldn't care less about you, your opinions, or the whining in this thread.


Face it. Things change. Always have, always will

Right now, you are getting your jock-strap all bound up over tamers...5 years from now, if you are still around, it'll be something else. And those of us that have been around since day 1 will just adapt, shut up, and move on.

Basically your responce boils down to this "I have no supporting arguement other than my narrow thinking mindset, So i will just repeat myself until i convince you that obviously i am correct"

Please give me an example of Any other template that requires you to pick up Non Pvp Skills to fight.

Give me an example of a template with 2 Skills (like Tame Lore) that has the same defensive and offensive power of a dragon.

Yes you can pick up Music Peace Disco on your template.. But only a mage can fit these in without severely gimping his template in pvp.. And Even if it is a Mage / Bard.. He is using 3 Skills to Counter 1 Pet.. Or.. 3 Skills to Counter Tame/Lore.

Music/Dicso/Peace Mage is effective aginst 1 template.
Tame/Lore is effective aginst all templates.

I fail to see the balance.

 

[archite666]

Basically your responce boils down to this "I have no supporting arguement other than my narrow thinking mindset, So i will just repeat myself until i convince you that obviously i am correct"

Please give me an example of Any other template that requires you to pick up Non Pvp Skills to fight.

Give me an example of a template with 2 Skills (like Tame Lore) that has the same defensive and offensive power of a dragon.

Yes you can pick up Music Peace Disco on your template.. But only a mage can fit these in without severely gimping his template in pvp.. And Even if it is a Mage / Bard.. He is using 3 Skills to Counter 1 Pet.. Or.. 3 Skills to Counter Tame/Lore.

Music/Dicso/Peace Mage is effective aginst 1 template.
Tame/Lore is effective aginst all templates.

I fail to see the balance.

Yes exactly, the system of "balance" on pvp has generally been adding one skill on your template to give you an advantage against a more precise template. That is the ideal balance system. EXAMPLES:

Parry to counter dexxers
Chivarly to counter Necros
Resisting spells to counter mages or necros
Reveal to counter hiding
Tracking to counter stealth
Poisoning to counter healing

Even if these arn't perfect examples you still get the idea. Having to slap on multiple skills to counter ONE SPECIFIC template is rediculous, that is't balance or adapting.

Adapting would be changing the way you fight slightly and maybe adding a skill to help.

Having to log onto a whole different character when one partacular template that every runs, well that is redicuous and proof enough that something needs to change.

Heaven forbid they are a stealth tamer, like most of them are.
Then you need music, peace/disco to not die. Then you need tracking and reveal to get a shot at the tamer. Then I guess your gonna have like fencing and tactics to kill them with. That is the definition of gimped.

 

[ATLPvPer]

You may have seen the animation and taken the damage once you have ran off screen, but you were targeted while on screen and the pet had LOS...period.



...........................................


Also, to all those whining so much about GDs...come to Atlantic, I will have 2 of my guildmates show you that they can stand toe to toe with my most powerful Greater Dragon, Tiamat. She is one of the toughest I have come across, but I have two guildies that she has much trouble killing. Why?

Because they know how to play against monsters, and by extension, tamers. If I were to try to kill either one of them using a pet, they would hand me my ass on a plate.


I quote Flutter here from another thread:

"
Just learn. Stop trying to nerf someone else due to your lack of ability."

I guarantee you that a pet can cast a flamestrike on me off-screen. I may have been in the line of site, say 5 seconds ago, but that is a moot point. It has been verefied by others, it definitely happens with ALL spells, including instant-hit lightnings. This is NOT balanced. A mage cannot cast a flamestrike on you just because you *were* on his screen at one time. Not to mention they have to stop to cast. Again, you are making invalid points without doing the necessary research, just to protect your favorite template through extreme bias.

As for your 'example' basically you are saying you have someone sit there and fight your greater dragon, while you merely spectate? A tamer needs 240 points, AT MOST, to use a greater dragon in PvP. Most do NOT have vet, which is a big problem for balance. That leave 480 points for other skills. I guarantee you NO template can stand toe to toe with a greater dragon and his archer master with tactics/dismount, nor can ANY template stand toe to toe with a greater dragon and the mage w/ eval casting explo/fs or on a dreadmare hoping off explo/fs/ getting the dreadmare to use its firebreath.

I agree that you are either playing your template very badly, not seeing the effects of a well-played tamer, or you are just spewing your bias in an attempt to retain your favorite overpowered template, unchanged. We've seen this before with AI/WoD archers claiming people could fight them with disarm.