PvP Tamers are Overpowered

[Yalp]

To whoever it was up above that compared maintaining tamer pets to maintaining weapons.....

My weapon doesn't have hundreds of hit points, and my guild can't crowd around and hide behind it in hard PvM areas we probably otherwise couldn't handle...

I'm not even TOUCHING pvp against a tamer with a greater dragon. The combo is not even really balanced compared with other classes in PvM. Let alone PvP, where taking fire from more than one vector is always a disadvantage from the word go.

Yet your weapon can't be killed and doesn't loose skill points when it is. It won't go wild on you, can't be disco'd or provoked onto something other than what you target.

And no.. the tamer +greater ISN"T balanced against another solo player.. but it IS balanced against 2 or 3 other pvp'rs. Nor should it be.

 

[WarUltima]

To whoever it was up above that compared maintaining tamer pets to maintaining weapons.....

My weapon doesn't have hundreds of hit points, and my guild can't crowd around and hide behind it in hard PvM areas we probably otherwise couldn't handle...

I'm not even TOUCHING pvp against a tamer with a greater dragon. The combo is not even really balanced compared with other classes in PvM. Let alone PvP, where taking fire from more than one vector is always a disadvantage from the word go.

My weapons also dont fire breathe someone from 3 screens away for 60+, my weapon doesnt float around chaining spells and instant killing people.

Yes at least, we have come to an agreement Tamer and Pet even tho there's just 1 player playing, is as good as a gank squad. By saying "because 3 to 5 people all attack me at the sametime and I will probably die also I might kill some of them before I die" already makes the point where "tamers and/or pets are unbalanced in PvP" valid.

 

[Duskofdead]

Yet your weapon can't be killed and doesn't loose skill points when it is. It won't go wild on you, can't be disco'd or provoked onto something other than what you target.

And no.. the tamer +greater ISN"T balanced against another solo player.. but it IS balanced against 2 or 3 other pvp'rs. Nor should it be.

So I return to my originally posed question, if there is no clear and obvious advantage (I would maintain it's everywhere, not just PvP) to tamer + GD, why did you bother going through what I hear is a god-awful skilling up process for taming when weapon skills are much easier?

 

[walter_mitty]

if they nerf the dragons another template will take its place,
i dont really see a problem with them. just disco them

 

[Duskofdead]

if they nerf the dragons another template will take its place,
i dont really see a problem with them. just disco them

So you need to have a character on hand that, at least from what I hear over and over from bards, is nigh-useless for almost everything else right now, just to deal with tamers? *scratches head*

And "something will always be overpowered so let MY build stay overpowered" is very hypocritical and self-serving...

 

[Yalp]

My weapons also dont fire breathe someone from 3 screens away for 60+, my weapon doesnt float around chaining spells and instant killing people.

Yes at least, we have come to an agreement Tamer and Pet even tho there's just 1 player playing, is as good as a gank squad. By saying "because 3 to 5 people all attack me at the sametime and I will probably die also I might kill some of them before I die" already makes the point where "tamers and/or pets are unbalanced in PvP" valid.

I believe tamer and pet SHOULD be considered as a multiple player team. I think you believe tamer and pet should be considered solo player and weapon.. so it makes sense you think the tamers weapon is far superior to the dexers weapon or the archers weapon. We have a valid point of divergence between philosophies.

If the games producers feel the greater is but a weapon in the tamers hands.. then they need to adjust the power of that weapon, while also adjusting the negatives of that weapon.... (there are many, we can easily start a new thread about it)... but they need to make it comparable to the other weapons out there. Will it be slow.. then it needs to be powerful.. will it be fast.. then it needs to be less powerful... will it have special moves? How will it compensate for the ability of other templates to switch between weapons with various special moves? Etc. etc. Will there be restrictions on other templates in regards to carrying just ONE weapon? Does this apply to just greaters? Or all pets in the tamers stable?

If the games producers feel the greater is another member of a pvp group... then they need to adjust that as well... compensating for the inabilities of the greater to act more like a team member and less like a Cuisenart... better AI, abilities to move around objects and not be blocked by terrain changes, etc.

The indiscriminate shouting to nerf dragons neither helps the development team make informed decisions about the role of pets, nor to identify a philosophy with which they want to govern their future actions.

My voice is a counter point, offered to these threads for the developers consideration. I recognize most of those peeps in the nerf camp are hardwired and will not be swayed by my offerings.

 

[Yalp]

So I return to my originally posed question, if there is no clear and obvious advantage (I would maintain it's everywhere, not just PvP) to tamer + GD, why did you bother going through what I hear is a god-awful skilling up process for taming when weapon skills are much easier?

It is my experience.. in some situations tamers do have beneficial uses.. but that has not been pvp. I have stopped taking my tamer to fel long ago and use a dexer when I suspect I might run into a pvp situation.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

So you need to have a character on hand that, at least from what I hear over and over from bards, is nigh-useless for almost everything else right now, just to deal with tamers? *scratches head*

And yet there are no bards here whining incessently that warriors, mages, archers, and tamers are all "overpowered". *scratches head*

 

[Duskofdead]

And yet there are no bards here whining incessently that warriors, mages, archers, and tamers are all "overpowered". *scratches head*

If as many people all rolled the exact same... I dunno let me make something up, chivalry-archery build, as there are tamers at the moment... yes this thread would be about chivalry-archery.

And there's a reason for it. Players en masse don't all roll the same sucky build. They roll whatever their brothers, guildmates, guides and l33t friends at Fel Yew say is most awesome at the moment.

Run around champ spawns... see who's alive and who's dead. See who kills stuff the quickest and survives longest. There is no question of a clear advantage in really, most any area of combat, to the tamer at the moment. As I said, virtually everyone has one, or is working on one right now.

I don't really see that situation for I dunno, macers....... necros...... disco bards.... and there's a reason for that too.

I don't have an issue with you liking your class, or not wanting a hamfisted, careless nerf. I DO have issue with you trying to write off what is obvious to an overwhelming majority of the players, that tamers are overpowered at the moment. Even if they deny it verbally, actions speak louder than words. Everybody has one. Digging your heels in and saying it's just "whining" when someone calls out the obvious doesn't do your argument any credit. In fact, it makes you look backed into a corner and conceding the point.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

So I return to my originally posed question, if there is no clear and obvious advantage (I would maintain it's everywhere, not just PvP) to tamer + GD, why did you bother going through what I hear is a god-awful skilling up process for taming when weapon skills are much easier?

Of course there is an advantage. Every template (except pure bards) have some advantage in PvP. Necro Mages right now have some really, really, effective tactics at their disposal right now...Evil Omen/Para for example.

ABC Archers have the ability to hit players with all 70 resists for 60+ damage every 2.25 seconds.

The players that know how to use what they have available to them the best are the ones that are the most effective...and that includes tamers.

Personally, my Rune/Bake combo has killed more reds than my GD ever will...because my GD is slow and rather stupid (he might need replacing). The Rune/Bake combo cast faster, and the Rune poisons like crazy...plus, there are two of them...so discoing one is not stopping the other, or me. So it all comes down to how you play and the tactics you use.

Want a tip on killing a tamer? Para the tamer, run off screen, hide, run back...kill the tamer while the pets meandor around cluelessly. Especially if you are in a group of 2 or 3 vs. a single tamer. Works pretty well.

Of course, a good PvP tamer will not always commit both pets to one target...depends on the situation.

Despite what some think, tamers have more than 1 or 2 macros set up.

PvP tamers are just like any other PvP template...they are only as good as the person playing them.

 

[Duskofdead]

We can go back and forth, like I said earlier, my horse isn't even really in the PvP thing.

In any MMO, you see 50, 60, 70% of people mainly playing, levelling, or working on one particular class/build.... that's a pretty good sign it's out of balance.

Even if we want to just say it's a "matter of perspective" if tamers are balanced on this, or balanced on that, I think the evidence is somewhat indisputable when you look at how many people are levelling taming, and how much taming related power scrolls cost. For a skill that is "awful" to raise, plenty o'people seem to find it plenny worthwhile.

 

[LIL DON]

Every Template in almost any given MMORPG has a counter skill that can defeat it. When GD/DMs are tamed their barding difficulty goes down as well. A semi skilled peacer can completly eliminate any given pet from a fight and with a little skill in the other 480 skill points usage can either EV the pet to death or kill the tamer who will then log out to save his pet. I do however agree if a tamer can not rez their own pet it should take a heftier skill penelty. Maybe the dev team could change the way pet slots work to make it like stable slots. Meaning the more taming type skill points the larger pets you can control and include Vet in the mix.

 

[RichDC]

So far it seems that were all in favour of capping the firebreath and giving pets the same casting rules of player chars...

I have a suggestion, now we have a start why not lets petition to have this implemented and see how it goes, if more is still needed to balance the equation then we can have another discussion to come up with more balances.

as the post two above says this can go back and forward forever but we seem to have a solid base to start from.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

In any MMO, you see 50, 60, 70% of people mainly playing, levelling, or working on one particular class/build.... that's a pretty good sign it's out of balance.

I will agree on that point.

Taming has been, since the very first day of UO, the most powerful skill in the game. And until they ruined the game with all the AoS item-based garbage and Advanced Character Tokens, it was the most respected skill as well...because it took forever to ever "level" it up to GM.

If there is anyone to blame for any over abundance of tamers, it is EA for introducing skill+ items to the game.

As for the Greater Dragon...

...of course it will be nerfed. I am just glad I made a few million selling them before they became the equivalent of big red Mongbats.

Anyone that has been playing this game for any long period of time can remember a time when their "class" was nerfed. Ask an old school bard about Pub 16 sometime.

 

[Yalp]

If as many people all rolled the exact same... I dunno let me make something up, chivalry-archery build, as there are tamers at the moment... yes this thread would be about chivalry-archery.

And there's a reason for it. Players en masse don't all roll the same sucky build. They roll whatever their brothers, guildmates, guides and l33t friends at Fel Yew say is most awesome at the moment.

Run around champ spawns... see who's alive and who's dead. See who kills stuff the quickest and survives longest. There is no question of a clear advantage in really, most any area of combat, to the tamer at the moment. As I said, virtually everyone has one, or is working on one right now.

I don't really see that situation for I dunno, macers....... necros...... disco bards.... and there's a reason for that too.

I don't have an issue with you liking your class, or not wanting a hamfisted, careless nerf. I DO have issue with you trying to write off what is obvious to an overwhelming majority of the players, that tamers are overpowered at the moment. Even if they deny it verbally, actions speak louder than words. Everybody has one. Digging your heels in and saying it's just "whining" when someone calls out the obvious doesn't do your argument any credit. In fact, it makes you look backed into a corner and conceding the point.

In my experience, I do not see everyone running out to make tamers, nor do I see tamer exclusive or tamer majority in PVP especially in PVP, or in pvm. I do see tamers side by side with dexers archers and bards. So I would have to say your observations do not hold true on my shard.

 

[Yalp]

In any MMO, you see 50, 60, 70% of people mainly playing, levelling, or working on one particular class/build.... that's a pretty good sign it's out of balance.

In october I saw peeps working begging like there was no tomorrow.. does that count?

 

[Uvtha]

that was why it would take a month,2,3 to gm (hell ive had mine a year still isnt!)

They don't. You can do it in a week.

 

[Duskofdead]

I will agree on that point.

Taming has been, since the very first day of UO, the most powerful skill in the game. And until they ruined the game with all the AoS item-based garbage and Advanced Character Tokens, it was the most respected skill as well...because it took forever to ever "level" it up to GM.

If there is anyone to blame for any over abundance of tamers, it is EA for introducing skill+ items to the game.

As for the Greater Dragon...

...of course it will be nerfed. I am just glad I made a few million selling them before they became the equivalent of big red Mongbats.

Anyone that has been playing this game for any long period of time can remember a time when their "class" was nerfed. Ask an old school bard about Pub 16 sometime.

Agreed, I am with you 100% about the itemization garbage. If I wanted to play Diablo 2, it's free. If I wanted to farm gear, there's World of Warcraft. That's not what I wanted out of my UO expereince, especially coming back nostalgically after so many years away. That particular change was a big disappointment.

 

[Duskofdead]

In my experience, I do not see everyone running out to make tamers, nor do I see tamer exclusive or tamer majority in PVP especially in PVP, or in pvm. I do see tamers side by side with dexers archers and bards. So I would have to say your observations do not hold true on my shard.

If you had just returned to the game after having been gone since before GD's were tameable, you'd notice a stark difference.

Look at the really active guilds that do a lot of champ spawns and dungeon crawls. Look at what they got, what they actually log in as and bring to the fights, and what the recommend to new joiners. It ain't dexer or archer builds or bards (lol).

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

I also recall seeing a huge number of Sampires not too long back.

 

[Duskofdead]

What's hot and what's not changes over time. No one would really dispute that. Heck people hardcore addicted to WOW have re rolled their main sometimes 3....5...7 times based on what was "best" at any given time--- despite, IMHO, being much harder and taking much longer to max a cahracter there than in UO. Yet plenty of people once had a rogue main, then a hunter main, then a paladin main, then a shaman main, then a warrior main, back to hunter main.... etc. Based on whatever was overpowered since the latest patch or expansion or gear release.

I would not put forward "THE GAME USED TO BE BALANCED AND NOW TAMERS ARE DESTROYING THE VERY FABRIC OF THE GAME CODE AND THE SKY IS FALLING." I'm just a little amazed that people get their backs so up at merely admitting that tamers are, at least in most situations, the most powerful build at the moment. I have never purchased anything online in terms of game gear/gold. However just out of curiosity I checked out a site just to compare demand levels. Most power scrolls? 3, 4 dollar range. 120 taming? 44 bucks. Yeah.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

I'm just a little amazed that people get their backs so up at merely admitting that tamers are, at least in most situations, the most powerful build at the moment.

I question whether or not tamers actually are the most powerful template at the moment...but that aside...


My primary concern in all this is that there are people involved in this discussion (not necessarily aimed at anyone in particular, least of all you) that would much prefer to whine and cry until tamers are nerfed into uselessness because they are upset that they were killed by a tamer...and they have no regard whatsoever to true balance. They seek revenge for being bested in PvP through drawing the attention of the devs to nerf tamers.

If the devs can come up with a way to actually balance PvP, I will be not only glad to go along with it ... but I will also be outright ***king amazed, because they never, not in 11 years, have in the past.

PvP is something that every person that actively engages in it seeks an advantage in. Combos of specific spells, specific weapons, tactics, etc. It is not limited to tamers.

Ask someone that has been EO'ed and Para ganked what they think about Necro Mages right now. Ask someone that plays a warrior that was shot to death by an archer using a speed hack without even being able to even SEE WHO IT WAS THAT SHOT THEM.

Seems to me that PvP has other problems that are throwing off any real balance that should be dealt with before the devs worry about nerfing a specific template off the field of battle.

 

[Duskofdead]

I question whether or not tamers actually are the most powerful template at the moment...but that aside...


My primary concern in all this is that there are people involved in this discussion (not necessarily aimed at anyone in particular, least of all you) that would much prefer to whine and cry until tamers are nerfed into uselessness because they are upset that they were killed by a tamer...and they have no regard whatsoever to true balance. They seek revenge for being bested in PvP through drawing the attention of the devs to nerf tamers.

If the devs can come up with a way to actually balance PvP, I will be not only glad to go along with it ... but I will also be outright ***king amazed, because they never, not in 11 years, have in the past.

PvP is something that every person that actively engages in it seeks an advantage in. Combos of specific spells, specific weapons, tactics, etc. It is not limited to tamers.

Ask someone that has been EO'ed and Para ganked what they think about Necro Mages right now. Ask someone that plays a warrior that was shot to death by an archer using a speed hack without even being able to even SEE WHO IT WAS THAT SHOT THEM.

Seems to me that PvP has other problems that are throwing off any real balance that should be dealt with before the devs worry about nerfing a specific template off the field of battle.

Likewise, Morgana, I would not put you in the category (which I believe exists--heck I think it's present even in my own guild!) who would say "noOooOoOo do NOT nerf tamers, I didn't even really want one, I remade my nec/mage/whatever as a tamer cause it's uber now and I want to solo farm arties."

I'm all for, find a fix that doesn't simply punitively slap tamers of every playstyle because of what the 7 people per shard who play at Fel Yew everyday have to say about it. I hate hamfisted nerfs. I was the victim of many of them during my stint in UO. ("Wait does macing suck today? What? It's overpowered today? Okay. Ugh, tomorrow it's going to get nerfed? Wait, now they added concussion status ailment to maces? I'm so confused. Does my weapon suck or is it overpowered?") However I think that perhaps attention does deserve to be levelled at how much... mmm... FURTHER, a tamer with GD pet can go in the game, than someone who is almost any other build. And the fact that champ spawns and such so heavily reward someone able to stay up so long without dying and do so much more damage so consistently , no mana downtime, no equipment needs for pet per se or consumables besides bandages and food, as I see GD tamers routinely doing.

I get near death solo'ing my little 1 on 1 fight in Ilsh... I see meanwhile GD tamer has run around and killed 8 of the same mob in the same amount of time. That kinda blows tbh.

 

[Budweiser]

dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares dreadmares 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Greater Dragons are nothing.......you people are ********...dreads are the issue...pvp vrs a mage tamer with a dread is insane... pull your heads out of your assss and realize this..you spend more time picking each others posts apart with quotes, how do you even have time to play the game????

 

[Duskofdead]

*Pat*

Back to the auto shop, now. Calm. Calm.

 

[WarUltima]

I question whether or not tamers actually are the most powerful template at the moment...but that aside...

Assuming the tamer has the skill equal to other decent PvPer. Tamer is the only single player that almost require multiple player (or a gank) to kill.

Currently UO pvp state is as the following: (I will type em again)
The most powerful archer is an archer tamer with dreads (optional 2nd pet)
The most powerful mage is a mage tamer with dreads (optional 2nd pet)
The most powerful dexer is a nerve bush 4/6 tamer w/dreads or GD
The most powerful stealther is a stealth tamer w/ GD
The most powerful ninja is an animal form 4/6 casting tamer w/ GD
The most powerful bard is a barding tamer w/ GD or Dread
The most powerful tamer is a tamer w/o vet but with other offensive skills
All thses are made worse with the log in and out free out of jail card.

You see the trend?

Any template if you can fit in just enough taming/lore to have a GD or a dreadmare instantly becomes the best in its category. And instantly turn into a mini gank squad and if played right, you are unbeatable 1v1 unless your opponent is also a [insert a class here] tamer himself.

Are you playing on a PvP popular shard?
Have you seen 5 tamers with 5 GDs(and some other people protecting the tamers total 10 players) push thru a faction/harrower defense line formed by 15 to 20 skilled players like they are all young players?

Can you imaging all 10 players showed up with 10 fully trained GD and pushing your base? You will not be able to stop them, unless of course you have your own tamers/GDs on your side.

Tamers at current stat is as bad as 5/6 casting mages, WoD AI instant kill Archer, Machine gun archers, wand cycling mages, unbreakable 4 second nerve strike death strike all kill sammy.

Anything that can instant killing another player is deemed to be overpowered and nerfed/changed. And GDs and Dreads are doing just that.

Do you see the point now?

 

[UOKaiser]

Alright then lets say a nerf goes for gd ok now thats done so who shall we all focus on next ah yes necro mage lets nerf them after thats done lets band toghether and get the archers into the nerf as well. Now after them 3 are nerfed the dexters will be more powerful than them all so lets hit them up next nerf them. Then after that is done we see that that the tamers are strong again so lets nerf them again after thats done necro are way stronger than the tamers so less nerf them again after thats done archers are still on top now so lets nerf them again wait we all most forgot about the dexters they are now more powerful than everyone else lets go nerf again.... Ah tamers back on top lets nerf them again...etc It will never end unfortunetly after every nerf a group of player leaves and very few come back thats the only thing that changes.
You want to make things better increse every skill abilities. Make certain skills counteracted by another skill. Well bards destroy tamers thats balance unfortunetly bards cant effect mage and dexters so that is why they are not use so lets increase bard power to be able to effect those grey to them. Able to discord players peace them and even provoke players unto there own friends and pets wouldnt that be nice. And of course we need something to counteract bard power. Mages or chiv can undo the harm or a balm with a timer. Balance up..

 

[Duskofdead]

Alright then lets say a nerf goes for gd ok now thats done so who shall we all focus on next ah yes necro mage lets nerf them after thats done lets band toghether and get the archers into the nerf as well. Now after them 3 are nerfed the dexters will be more powerful than them all so lets hit them up next nerf them. Then after that is done we see that that the tamers are strong again so lets nerf them again after thats done necro are way stronger than the tamers so less nerf them again after thats done archers are still on top now so lets nerf them again wait we all most forgot about the dexters they are now more powerful than everyone else lets go nerf again.... Ah tamers back on top lets nerf them again...etc It will never end unfortunetly after every nerf a group of player leaves and very few come back thats the only thing that changes.
You want to make things better increse every skill abilities. Make certain skills counteracted by another skill. Well bards destroy tamers thats balance unfortunetly bards cant effect mage and dexters so that is why they are not use so lets increase bard power to be able to effect those grey to them. Able to discord players peace them and even provoke players unto there own friends and pets wouldnt that be nice. And of course we need something to counteract bard power. Mages or chiv can undo the harm or a balm with a timer. Balance up..

If 1-3 things are all you see in PvP, or PvM for that matter, it's a balance problem.

Making comments like "oh well what's next let's nerf everything" is just being flippant about a valid issue.

 

[WarUltima]

How do you balance everyone UP so they can instant killing a player in straight 70s from three screens away? And if they really did that, this game will be even more ********.

 

[Duskofdead]

How do you balance everyone UP so they can instant killing a player in straight 70s from three screens away? And if they really did that, this game will be even more ********.

This issue could use fixing PERIOD.

It's no fun, even in PvM, to be flamestriked by something that's 2 1/2 screens away, when you have to be able to pick a monster's nose to be able to cast back at it.

 

[Yalp]

Look at the really active guilds that do a lot of champ spawns and dungeon crawls. Look at what they got, what they actually log in as and bring to the fights, and what the recommend to new joiners. It ain't dexer or archer builds or bards (lol).

Sorry to say, on my shard, that is just not the case.. Tamers in pvp are just not a force to be reckoned with. Siege of course, is a different animal.
Now when it comes to pvm... yes.. Tamers with the greater are in higher numbers.

This thread however, and the dozens like it, are about tamers with greater's in pvp. Right now the call is to nerf them out of pvp altogether.. but if you look closely you will already see the new drumbeat to nerf Dread Mares too. Is it any wonder that tamers are up in arms about being nerfed out of the game?

 

[Duskofdead]

Yes but, so? If tamers had a special ability called "Power Word Death" and could just click on targets and insta-kill, you'd have lots of tamers defending it from a nerf. That's the way overpowered classes are, a lot of people halfheartedly put a lot of time and money and effort into making one just because they want the uneven advantages, and will suddenly feel cheated if the utility is ... "balanced out."

 

[silent]

Tamers are overpowered Period.

 

[Viper09]

Tamers are overpowered Period.

Correction, greater dragons and dread mares are overpowered in PvP.
Trust me, tamers are not overpowered in PvM.

 

[UOKaiser]

If 1-3 things are all you see in PvP, or PvM for that matter, it's a balance problem.

Making comments like "oh well what's next let's nerf everything" is just being flippant about a valid issue.

I'ts true theres nothing not true about it. When this is done there will be another major call for a nerf on something else. I will put up 500mil gold on that want to go against it? Lets see what was before the sampire though I understand there was a valid point in there most people wanted the nerf not because of that it was because of competition. I think most people that wanted the nerf probably was tamers.After the bug was fixed the sampires focused exclusively on the tamers now. Being like that for 11 years.
One question am not sure about what shard do you do most youre pvp on? Where is the gd causing you so much trouble on? As I said before they ONLY need fixing in siege. Production FEL these guys drop like flies. I see one in fel I switch to my dexter or mage or my trsure hunter whith discord and rip them to shreads whith any one of those templates. My tamer I usualy keep in trammel hes pvm only.
So the important question is are you speaking for siege if you are I will agree with you but I will disagree on production shards.

Also the way the skills where made being pushed with all these nerfs for pvm or pvp there really is only dexter,archer,necro-mage,tamer,(bard only for pvm) to choose from so people will migrate to the best. archers are the best for general pvm then comes sampires for solo pvm then tamers. Bards are in between all these depending what being faught. Mages are last. PVP necro mage the most popular then archers then a mix between dexters and tamers. Not many to choose from. I would like a detective,alchemist,cook to be viable but they all got nerf over the years. In the end there will only be 2 templates for both pvm and pvp that will work while the rest are nerfed to unusuabilitiy. It will be stick figure 1 and stick figure 2.

 

[UOKaiser]

Tamers are overpowered Period.

Tamers are far from being over powered in pvm. I get targeted instead of my pet and I am dead no if whats about it. Thats why I prefer to play sampire I am the meat shield so i get targeted it's too bad for them. My archer and bard are nice to play with also. My spellweaver mage I use for doom like events to do as much damage possible whithout getting hit while others act as meatshields.

 

[Duskofdead]

I'ts true theres nothing not true about it. When this is done there will be another major call for a nerf on something else. I will put up 500mil gold on that want to go against it? Lets see what was before the sampire though I understand there was a valid point in there most people wanted the nerf not because of that it was because of competition. I think most people that wanted the nerf probably *snip*

What is your point? Imbalance is okay because someone will always complain about something?

If I said "carpenter-tinkers are overpowered, a trap on a wooden chest killed me, nerf them", I'd be laughed off the forum.

Someone saying tamers with GD & DM are overpowered is not quite so easily laughed off as ridiculous or just anecdotal whining or sour grapes when you look around and see half your shard is on a tamer or working on one.

But, by all means, if you like zero diversity and everyone having to play the same class, then fight off the nerf stick at all costs.

 

[UOKaiser]

What is your point? Imbalance is okay because someone will always complain about something?

If I said "carpenter-tinkers are overpowered, a trap on a wooden chest killed me, nerf them", I'd be laughed off the forum.

Someone saying tamers with GD & DM are overpowered is not quite so easily laughed off as ridiculous or just anecdotal whining or sour grapes when you look around and see half your shard is on a tamer or working on one.

But, by all means, if you like zero diversity and everyone having to play the same class, then fight off the nerf stick at all costs.

Half the shards have always being on a tamer or working one since there were tamers. There is no change in that. And it will be that way till the game ends because having a pet is fun. It's just recently that people being able to pvp with tamers well thats the only difference. Back in the days tamers where the only thing to use in pvm and as soon as any other class get as strong as the tamer class the tamers screem nerf the other classes. There always being somesort of class vengenece between each other and there always will be untill players decide to play with more than one template in there 7 slots. It's simple GD"S, dreadhorns "limited rare creatue", tamers in general do not need a nerf in production shards thats all there is to it. They only need a nerf in siege thats it. If youre speaking only for siege then make sure you put that in youre post. Other than that you are in a class war with tamers.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Are you playing on a PvP popular shard?
Have you seen 5 tamers with 5 GDs(and some other people protecting the tamers total 10 players) push thru a faction/harrower defense line formed by 15 to 20 skilled players like they are all young players?

I PvP on Atlantic. I don't play any other shard any more, so I have no idea how it rates, but from everything I can tell, Atlantic is still the busiest shard...and has been since day 1.

I have seen many things, including 2 mages ganking me just yesterday, killing me, my mare, and my rune beetle using speed hacks.

Don't lecture me about what is going on in UO, I see it everyday.

Can you imaging all 10 players showed up with 10 fully trained GD and pushing your base? You will not be able to stop them, unless of course you have your own tamers/GDs on your side.

What base?

Best advice to anyone taking a group of 10 players to a champ spawn...

...bring some bards with you.

You make the point that tamers are the most popular template, yet out of 10 players this hypothetical group cannot manage to bring even 2 bards that can area peace? Can they at least manage to bring arrows and regs and such?? It sounds like they are ill prepared for whatever they may encounter, and paid for it.

Tamers at current stat is as bad as 5/6 casting mages, WoD AI instant kill Archer, Machine gun archers, wand cycling mages, unbreakable 4 second nerve strike death strike all kill sammy.

Anything that can instant killing another player is deemed to be overpowered and nerfed/changed. And GDs and Dreads are doing just that.

Do you see the point now?

There have been things that insta-killed players since day 1. Right now, there is a small chance that a GD might do it, but there is an even better chance that a necro mage can pull it off, considering a necro mage has direct control over what spells they cast.

I am not arguing that GDs are not too powerful, just that there are plenty of other tactics in PvP right now that are equally effective...and some of them are a violation of the ToS...and that those need to be dealt with first.

 

[Arrgh]

Quick, someone call the waaaambulance for the big bad arse pks!!



















I'm just teasing...NOT! We can't help it if you can't figure out how to make a tamer or learn how to gank one. I mean I'm totally impressed by how well organized you can gank a lone miner or lumberjack...use those same l33t skillz to gank a tamer. Yeah, yeah I know, I know...have I tried taking on a tamer and a g dragon? Have I done it on the Fel ruleset shard? I could careless about the Fel ruleset shard but yes I sure as crap have fought a tamer with g dragon and you know what? I got ate twice but after paralyzing on the drag many times and some well timed heals from mates the tamer ate dirt. Kill the tamer then lead the dragon off.

Good Lord you'd think EA and OSI have to cater exclusively to you people the way you "demand" crap left and right and then you're never grateful. Maybe that's one of the reasons we get treated like step-kids compared to the Japanese players. I don't know if any of you ever pvped alongside the Japanese but you rarely ever hear them whine plus they're grateful people. Hmmmm, wonder who I would favor if I were a developer. Grateful or ungrateful people? You're supposed to be the baddest of the bad but yet all I see/hear is constant complaining? I could say so much more but I'd be wasting my time I feel.

 

[WarUltima]

So you had a guildmate cross healing you after many many paralyze and many many retrys you managed to kill the lone tamer. You just proved that 1 tamers is better than any other none taming PvP template. I am assuming you are saying you are good, and yet need to have someone assist you (takes playerS) with many tries to take down one(1) player?

Btw, the tamer you met has a really ****ty GD. GD can have as much as 126 resist. This means a puny little paralyze spell from a puny little legendary mage will do nothing at all. That is not even paralyzing it for 0.000005 second, it will be immune to paralysis spell. Unless you have someone omen para it while the tamer is too stupid to do anything to free up his pet. Playing on a busy shard dont make you a good PvPer, and at least on my shard, I see plenty tamers ma/weaken/feeble mind the GD when an eo para is being executed, and good tamer (or any good pvper) will always have a tbox on them. If you are still getting omen para ganked, you made a mistake, because I would rather have two(2) mages trying to omen para me all day then having one(1) GD or Dread have a chance (with zero player skill but RNG rolls) to instant kill me when RNG goes wrong...

Again, is it OK for a player to be able to instant killing another player in straight 70s from 3 screens away? If it's not ok then pets are overpowered and is in need of a fix. If you answered it's fine, you are as bad as those old WoD AI instant kill archers saying they are balanced because they need to find other players to create a focus to be able to instant kill you.

Edit: I guess what I am trying to say is, the problem isnt with the stupid tamers (even tho their pets still do have a chance to instant kill you), problem comes with tamers knowing wtf they are doing.

 

[Arrgh]

Nope no cross healing, just a few heals after getting hit for like...nearly dead by some wicked cbow in 2 shots almost a whole screen away. So you're wrong it wasn't the pet that was the problem it was the cbow the tamer was packing. If I weren't a stealthy/mage casting on the drag to keep it still most of the time it would have been a problem without a doubt and maybe Legendary Scholar with dragon slayer book helped some or maybe it actually was a sickly dragon. *shrug* I still believe the bow was way too powerful.

 

[DuttyD]

just agree pvp isn't balanced?

If you don't like how it is now, then quit. EAMythic doesn't care about its players.

 

[Arch Magus]

The most powerful mage is a mage tamer with dreads (optional 2nd pet)
The most powerful dexer is a nerve bush 4/6 tamer w/dreads or GD
The most powerful stealther is a stealth tamer w/ GD
The most powerful ninja is an animal form 4/6 casting tamer w/ GD
The most powerful bard is a barding tamer w/ GD or Dread
The most powerful tamer is a tamer w/o vet but with other offensive skills
All thses are made worse with the log in and out free out of jail card.

You see the trend?

Do you see the point now?

I highlighted the tamer templates that I enjoy taking to the cleaners on my Necro mage on a regular basis. fun fun fun

p.s. I've never used evil omen>para except on runners.

 

[Viper09]

just agree pvp isn't balanced?

If you don't like how it is now, then quit. EAMythic doesn't care about its players.

You're right. They sure don't care about their source of income. Guess that's why they keep patching the game every so often, working on another client hoping the players will like it, keeping the servers up to the best of their ability, trying to fix bugs...wait a min. Sounds like they do care about the players. Guess that's why this game is still around!

But hey, if you are so convinced that they don't care, why don't you go ahead and quit if you already haven't

 

[LadyKeroOfAtl]

I understand that these 'pvp' guild recruiting tamers is annoying..
But it was annoying with other templates before. they nerf tamers, you'll just be complaining about another 'unfair' template later.

Taming is one of the hardest skills to work - and theres no gain from actual hunting.
Those people earned their greater dragon.

If you want to say maybe a Greater Dragon or other pet shouldnt listen if the person has on jewels say.. more then 10 skill points. Sure.

Just make a tamer, you know its one of the few things that wont be nerfed =P

 

[thechoppa]

Two big guilds, fighting for control of an harrower. Observe and enjoy. Images should be stronger than words.

http://www.veoh.com/videos/v16558263C9KcyfST

 

[RichDC]

Is there as different link to this, im at work and dont have the lastest flash theyve all been blocked for downloads too

 

[PlayerSkillFTW]

Also, I think as time passes pets should eventually become weak and die. Maybe after 1 RL week the pet starts to go.

Ridiculous. I have a 7xGM WW that i tamed within the first three days of UO: Second Age being out. I also have a Pure Long Maned Nightmare that is nearly as old as my WW. Both are 10+ years old, very likely longer than you've been playing UO. So no.

You're right. They sure don't care about their source of income. Guess that's why they keep patching the game every so often, working on another client hoping the players will like it, keeping the servers up to the best of their ability, trying to fix bugs...wait a min. Sounds like they do care about the players. Guess that's why this game is still around!

But hey, if you are so convinced that they don't care, why don't you go ahead and quit if you already haven't

EA keeps UO around because they still make a good profit off of it even when only putting the minimal amount of maintenance/investment into it. WAR is their new cash cow.

 

[thechoppa]

there is an other link but you need latest flash as well:-(