What I posted made every bit of sense...

[Roland']

1. You cannot transfer points if in the negative. If the thief is killed even once, the sigil captured only erases the death toll.

2. Transfering points to a mule has a certain amount of point loss built in.

3. Transfering the points from the mule to another player to spend will incur more point loss on transfer.

Do you really think it is worth it to transfer twice, causing 10 points to be devalued to 4? Wouldn't it make more sense for the thief to hand off the sigil to the player who needs the points so they can return it?

Seems to me you just fear being shut out of faction gear... can't do without?

Anyone with half a brain would train stealing on there mule to avoiding losing points twice. with items you need very little stealing to get a sigil. theres always a work around. they have a broke system as is. the new system (if it will be different) will be exploited as well. for now just lower the silver cost.

if one person runs faction gear everyone will run it. so no, anyone who activly pvps cannot/will not do without and still be viable.

 

[Kat]

IMO, reducing the silver cost for faction items is a good temporary fix until the faction overhaul comes into play, if it ever does, but that only addresses half the issue. That change needs to be implemented with additional increased artie drops for non-faction players. Whether those players PvP or not, it is way too costly for them to equip as well. Either way, with better, reasonably priced or reasonably obtained equipment, those players might be more inclined to take the field.

No hate here, but that is why I felt Kages PM to Cal was rather selfish. His request only included part of the equation and it was the part that benefits him and his guild.

In any case, its pointless to keep arguing about this. Arguing gets nothing accomplished. Sure, it may be easier for the devs to implement only half of whats necessary, but we need to come together for whats best for all and stay on Cal's ass to get it done. As long as we're holed up in this forum arguing with each other, he doesn't have to do a damn thing for us.


Kage, Asty, Forsaken... If you rode Cal's ass has hard as you've argued with members of this community in each and every one of these threads, maybe he'd get off his butt and do something. You are targeting your anger at the wrong people. Lets come together on whats best for everyone. Can we do that?

 

[HaHa]

IMO, reducing the silver cost for faction items is a good temporary fix until the faction overhaul comes into play, if it ever does, but that only addresses half the issue. That change needs to be implemented with additional increased artie drops for non-faction players. Whether those players PvP or not, it is way too costly for them to equip as well. Either way, with better, reasonably priced or reasonably obtained equipment, those players might be more inclined to take the field.

No hate here, but that is why I felt Kages PM to Cal was rather selfish. His request only included part of the equation and it was the part that benefits him and his guild.

In any case, its pointless to keep arguing about this. Arguing gets nothing accomplished. Sure, it may be easier for the devs to implement only half of whats necessary, but we need to come together for whats best for all and stay on Cal's ass to get it done. As long as we're holed up in this forum arguing with each other, he doesn't have to do a damn thing for us.


Kage, Asty, Forsaken... If you rode Cal's ass has hard as you've argued with members of this community in each and every one of these threads, maybe he'd get off his butt and do something. You are targeting your anger at the wrong people. Lets come together on whats best for everyone. Can we do that?

I remember riding Binky's ass back in the day. Wilki's too. Even Jeremy's.... Look at where we have gotten... oh yea, dont look. Damn I want so bad to come back. Damn I miss the people and the memories in this game. DAMN!, I cant believe how long we have been ignored. Just two months ago Kat and Bruin were at the lead with so many changes to Siege. Most I liked, some I didnt. But then, they were being listened too. For the most part, since I have experienced it in the past, I was skeptical anything would change. Now I know, nothing has changed. So much effort Kat put into changes in this shard, now look. Because of this and their positive outlook, I was getting ready to jump back in. Now I feel like she, and the rest of us, have been slapped in the face. What has changed? What will change? Hell I guess just as much that has changed over the last few years... oh wait.... bad example.

If a change is going to be made, it needs to be one that will keep the current low population, and bring back a large former population. This will make Siege great again!

Seige not only needs to change for the current players, it has to change for former players. I was in WoW vent tonight with former REV players who said they were currently playing UO on a different type of playing field and there were tons of players! Makes me wanna sail to an island.

Damn, I miss you guys and miss pissing my pathetic enemies off to the point of mental breakdown...

..yea, you guys know who you are lol.

 

[Kat]

I have lost quite a bit of hope as well. I really thought Cal would follow through and now we get this "wait and see" bit, which pretty much disgusts me.

On the other hand, we are our own worst enemies. [Including me!] Here we sit arguing with each other over what we, as individual groups, want. All I'm saying is that we need to come together and push for the changes we need as a whole and not back down from that. If we are united, we stand a better chance of getting something done.

Freja and crew: Its time to move into 2010 and accept that the game has changed too much to keep looking back. Look for ways to improve things in TODAY's game

BFF and crew: Its time to accept that you aren't the only players who matter. This shard is in trouble across the board and there isn't a once size fits all/low hanging fruit solution.

Its time to stop fighting against each other and spinning our wheels in the mud. Lets get back on track, find the solutions that we need as a WHOLE and ride Cal's ass about it until he... As we say in Texas... "****s or gets off the pot".

Cheerleader Kat is back!

 

[N49ATV]

Kat has a point. If any dev comes in here and reads these topics, they are going to do nothing. Because all they see is ideas that will **** off half the shard, and make half the shard happy. Till we can come to a compromise, and they can see a united front, they are gonna sit back, and give atlantic more love and attention

 

[Draxous]

I have lost quite a bit of hope as well. I really thought Cal would follow through and now we get this "wait and see" bit, which pretty much disgusts me.

On the other hand, we are our own worst enemies. [Including me!] Here we sit arguing with each other over what we, as individual groups, want. All I'm saying is that we need to come together and push for the changes we need as a whole and not back down from that. If we are united, we stand a better chance of getting something done.

Freja and crew: Its time to move into 2010 and accept that the game has changed too much to keep looking back. Look for ways to improve things in TODAY's game

BFF and crew: Its time to accept that you aren't the only players who matter. This shard is in trouble across the board and there isn't a once size fits all/low hanging fruit solution.

Its time to stop fighting against each other and spinning our wheels in the mud. Lets get back on track, find the solutions that we need as a WHOLE and ride Cal's ass about it until he... As we say in Texas... "****s or gets off the pot".

Cheerleader Kat is back!

Good post and I think it's time for you to step down and take up a role similar to mine. It is obvious your resentment towards members clouds your judgement and hinders progress. I hinder progress for different reasons, but we both hinder progress with our behavior. I suggest picking someone who you can work with, who has an impartial point of view towards the people working on this.

For the record, BFF and crew have not stoned walled any of the ideas this community has agreed upon. They fully support bumping monster loot. They fully support all of the things the community have agreed need be fixed. They don't enter threads on that subject and say "No." They don't go into those threads and say "No, fix faction silver first." They simply ask for the changes we all want... Whether they ask for the changes individually or as a package deal, it is only in the minds of those who dislike them that see what their doing as selfish. Their camp has been pushing for a boost to monster loot for years before you ever took up the cause. I know, because I am the one who started that crusade years ago. When ML came out, ml-arty drop rates were high until they nerfed them into the ground. Who remembers farming swoops? Miasmas? I started asking for those drop rates to be returned and all others boosted. During those days you would say, no.. boosting monster loot would make the items too easy to get and it would be just like having insurance. When you helped lead the coalition to stone wall that request too. Because in those days, you wanted everyone to run around in GM armor, just like you've wanted no one to run around in faction armor today, here and now.


You preach to each side what you think they should accept and do to help the cause.

Well I challenge you to do the same, but with yourself and step down. Take up a role similar to mine and pass the stick to someone who won't hold us back... because you have been holding us back time and time again.


Thanks.

 

[Roland']

YouTube - AL Pacino's Any Given Sunday Speech

I didnt know you were in movies BR.

 

[Draxous]

YouTube - AL Pacino's Any Given Sunday Speech

I didnt know you were in movies BR.

haha.

 

[Critical Gaming]

I say no when it's a ******** idea. Like 30 second invulnerable recalls and completely public, enterable-by-anyone, housing (defeats the point having having a house)

Aside from that, any educated, well-though-out, logical idea is fine with me. I'm just bothered when people who don't have a clue about 2010 UO drill their opinions relentlessly like they have something to prove. Totally defeats the purpose of the thread in the first place. Do some research or at least play the game before relentlessly spamming an idea if you don't know what you're talking about, else it ends up as a huge flame thread. Swallow your pride. You may have known what UO was about in 1999, but the fact is, you don't know jack about it today.

Alright, done with that.
_________________________________________________________________

Anyways,

Simply lowering the faction artifact prices would be a "quick-fix," as there is a lot that needs to be done in order for a non-insurance shard to work properly in this day and age. Unfortunately, this seems to be the only thing EA may be capable of doing, which is why a lot of us are pushing for it go to through.

The rest of this post is roughly what needs to be done in order for a non-insurance shard to flourish in UO2010. YOU CANNOT COMPETE IN GM ARMOR IN 2010 UO!!!!! Unfortunately, this is wasted time because there isn't a chance in hell it would ever happen, but sometimes it's fun to dream...

Let me know what you think!

I definitely feel like cursed arties should drop somehow.. perhaps make them drop off gauntlet monsters, but with increased rates? They are doom artifacts after all...

increased loot intensity and less loot items should have been on EVERY SHARD since the day EA took over. Loot has always been a joke.

Faction artifact prices should be dropped, and/or the name should be removed.

Rank should scale based on active faction players. Currently the 2,000+ inactive accounts at 0 punkte due to point decay cause everyone at 1 punkte or more to be rank 10 on siege.

Also, you should not lose punkte for killing your own faction mates. That's ********. It's not on prodo, it shouldn't be here... Especially if the ranking system is changed to scale off active players rather than including inactives.

I like faction items being purchased with silver, because there is PvP at silver hotspots. I get raided sometimes when farming blighted. Plus people can take over a faction and change the tithing rate to disable silver farming, which can encourage same-faction fights. No one organization realistically has a perfect relationship with itself, no? (This relates to the "not losing punkte for killing your own faction" idea) It all ties into the never-ending faction struggle.

particular imbuing ingredients shouldn't be next-to-impossible to obtain.

treasures of tokuno should continuously drop on siege (we can't xfer to or from, so why the hell not?)


summary:

Non-faction players:
-Have the ability to farm up good suits, comparable to faction suits, without wasting ridiculous amounts of time
-Will not be at a complete gear-disadvantage when fighting a rank 10 factioneer.

faction players:
-Have a gear advantage on non-factioners, but MUST obtain rank, aka, MUST play factions in order to maintain those suits, in-turn sparking up tons of faction PvP for those who wish to play with the gear advantage, which IMO was the original intent of implementing the gear

benefits to the shard
-Killing farmers at gauntlet, tokuno, SA dungeon, Ilshenar(paragons), ML dungeons(ML arties) - That covers EVERY EXPANSION, and there will be a reason to farm all of these places to create suits.
-faction PvP will need to take place in order to keep rank up to maintain a desired gear advantage, as well as the desired life of constant PvP
-factions can also have power struggles and same-faction fights just like any real organization has
-silver pvp hotspots

BTW, if certain parts of this were to be implemented (like fixing the rank system to work off ACTIVE accounts), cursed arties and tokuno arties would need to drop again, and particular imbuing ingreds need to drop more too, or all PvP on siege would immediately die.

 

[Critical Gaming]

Oh yeah, and we need passive detect too.

 

[Roland']

Good post Critical Gaming.

 

[Draxous]

I say no when it's a ******** idea. Like 30 second invulnerable recalls and completely public, enterable-by-anyone, housing (defeats the point having having a house)

No one ever suggested adding completely public, enterable-by-anyone, housing.

Sitting in and fighting from the porch of a house is an abuse of the housing system. It's worse than people hugging guardzones.

I'm sorry you started playing UO after they changed it, but you just don't understand whats being asked for so you think it's ********.

Look at my tower. It's public and you can only enter it if I have the access level of the front doors set appropriately. Same thing as what's been suggested. People will have to design their houses more intelligently. You can't have it opened up everywhere if you want to be safe. If you want to be safe you'll need 4 walls and a door.

I use the detect hidden skill and "I ban thee/Remove thyself" commands to police my home.

If you have a customizable house, put up 4 walls and doors if you don't want people getting in.

This is the way it's supposed to be here. It has nothing to do with UO 2010. It has to do with player justice, ending the overly abused house fighting and getting rid of the ultimate 100% safe zone ever made.

----------------------------------------------------------

EDIT: Just so this doesn't get anyones panties in a bunch - this isn't a big ticket issue. I don't see it happening and I'd be surprised if the community here pushed for something like this. Every PvPer here knows how private housing is abused. If you were here when Siege came out, you'd relate more to what I'm talking about.

 

[Rumpelstiltskin]

do you know how easy it is to make a dexxer suit,

I could make a char in non factions a dexxer and pretty much kill any faction pvper, with a cheap suit..

13 hci 13 dci 20 ep on jewls
rune beetle, 1 mr on sleeves neck gloves,
fey leggings

siege blessed spirit of the totem,

20 ss hit lower d 40 hit spell 40 di katana

i just made a 40 hci 45 dci, 7 mr 40 lmc 40 ep suit with spare room.. using no faction arties...

 

[T'Challa]

Sure it's easy, but they still won't risk it to a gank. Too expensive.

 

[Freelsy]

Sure it's easy, but they still won't risk it to a gank. Too expensive.

Non faction that suit would probably cost around 700k. Rune Beetle, fey leggings and Spirit being about 85% of the cost.

Faction, that suit would cost about 350k total.

 

[John Connelly]

Now that we have a thread which is reasonably civilized, can someone who is articulate and can post without resorting to petty insults and expletives please answer the following questions. I know we have been through this before but I have been unable to filter out the valid arguments from the debris.

1. Why should the price of faction artis be lowered?
2. Is it not in the spirit of Siege that “if you can’t afford to lose it, you shouldn’t wear it”?
3. If faction artis did not exist would everyone not have equal access to imbued articles or regular artis which would level the field of play?
4. Is it not the same to say that “passive detect works on prodo shards so should be introduced to Siege” as arguing that “insurance works on prodo shards therefore should be on Siege”?
5. If stealth is considered overpowered, is it not more reasonable to increase the skill that detects hidden players (increase range, sensitivity, lower timer) rather than passive detect which requires no sacrifice of skill points?
6. Is this all just a waste of time because nothing will be done anyway and I should just go back to treasure hunting?

 

[Freelsy]

Now that we have a thread which is reasonably civilized, can someone who is articulate and can post without resorting to petty insults and expletives please answer the following questions. I know we have been through this before but I have been unable to filter out the valid arguments from the debris.

1. Why should the price of faction artis be lowered?
2. Is it not in the spirit of Siege that “if you can’t afford to lose it, you shouldn’t wear it”?
3. If faction artis did not exist would everyone not have equal access to imbued articles or regular artis which would level the field of play?
4. Is it not the same to say that “passive detect works on prodo shards so should be introduced to Siege” as arguing that “insurance works on prodo shards therefore should be on Siege”?
5. If stealth is considered overpowered, is it not more reasonable to increase the skill that detects hidden players (increase range, sensitivity, lower timer) rather than passive detect which requires no sacrifice of skill points?
6. Is this all just a waste of time because nothing will be done anyway and I should just go back to treasure hunting?

1. It should be lowered because of the rate at which silver spawns. There are too few spots, with silver spawning in ver small amounts. Its takes TOO MUCH time. Nine hours for one suit is just ridiculous and discourages any kind of participation. Now if they wanted to up the amount of silver that spawn.. that would be fine too. Something to ease the pain of farming for a set of items that can be lost in an instant.

2. Can you please reference me an article describing the spirit of Siege? That is something that you guys reference as being fact. The only fact I know of about Siege is its harder to gain skill (not really now), reds are allowed everywhere and you can fight everywhere. I wasn't aware of the "spirit of siege" law. Also, going by that statement. We should limit ourselves to 50% of the game because there is a possibility of losing gear. That's dumb.

3. Not at all. Faction artifacts not only gave everyone access to Orny's, Crystaline rings but they opened up templates that were only available on prodo because of the rarity of items here on Siege. Cursed artifacts are very scarce now and the good ones that are out there would be bought up by myself and others. Have you ever seen Nyms house? Easily has thousands and thousands of cursed artifacts just sitting on his roof. Also, with imbuing, a lot of people unraveled the lesser arties. In a nutshell, faction artifacts gives those that were not here for the cursed arty drop events a chance at having good items via silver.

4&5. On of the main arguments on this shard is that Stealth is so overpowered. For the ease of development, which I have no idea about, I would say its easier to implement a system that is already in effect and works than rework a skill from the ground up. If the developers are hard pressed as they say they are, we're not going to get specific changes for this shard alone. Besides, passive detect isn't as horrible as you guys think it is. I run the same template on Atlantic as I do here and I'm rarely detected.

6. None of this is a waist of time. Cal_Mythic is watching, lurking in the dark. They're aware of our ideas, its just comes down to, what can they do to accomodate us without breaking their backs.

 

[Draxous]

1. Why should the price of faction artis be lowered?
2. Is it not in the spirit of Siege that “if you can’t afford to lose it, you shouldn’t wear it”?
3. If faction artis did not exist would everyone not have equal access to imbued articles or regular artis which would level the field of play?
4. Is it not the same to say that “passive detect works on prodo shards so should be introduced to Siege” as arguing that “insurance works on prodo shards therefore should be on Siege”?
5. If stealth is considered overpowered, is it not more reasonable to increase the skill that detects hidden players (increase range, sensitivity, lower timer) rather than passive detect which requires no sacrifice of skill points?
6. Is this all just a waste of time because nothing will be done anyway and I should just go back to treasure hunting?

1. Because they are too expensive.

2. Yes, but when did "items must be (super) expensive" become a part of that philosophy?

3. No. Everyone has the option to join factions.

4. No because Insurance does not work on prodo shards. Faction items and imbued items wouldn't have been introduced with a special type of item decay if it did. Thieves wouldn't be viewed and played as they are if it did. Passive detect does not discourage players from using or having stealth. It discourages players from abusing it.

5. Define reasonable? If it is more reasonable for the developers to implement passive detect than to rework the detect skill... then no it is not more reasonable. They both produce the same results.

6. Is posting on this forum in general largely a waste of time? Yes, treasure hunt away.

 

[John Connelly]

Thanks Freelsy and Draxous for your responses.

 

[nightstalker22]

1. Why should the price of faction artis be lowered?
2. Is it not in the spirit of Siege that “if you can’t afford to lose it, you shouldn’t wear it”?
3. If faction artis did not exist would everyone not have equal access to imbued articles or regular artis which would level the field of play?
4. Is it not the same to say that “passive detect works on prodo shards so should be introduced to Siege” as arguing that “insurance works on prodo shards therefore should be on Siege”?
5. If stealth is considered overpowered, is it not more reasonable to increase the skill that detects hidden players (increase range, sensitivity, lower timer) rather than passive detect which requires no sacrifice of skill points?
6. Is this all just a waste of time because nothing will be done anyway and I should just go back to treasure hunting?

1. Faction artifact prices need not be lowered, they need to be overhauled, completely. Take silver out of the equation. Silver should only be used to buy regeants and faction horses from faction vendors and to craft faction traps.

2. It is indeed the spirit of Siege. Risk around every corner ( reds allowed to go anywhere ), and Peril should you not guard thyself or thine posessions ( No insurance brings murderers and thieves to Siege ). I go one step further and make my houses public, whether I have vendors on them or not.

3. No. Not everyone has equal access to artifacts. Faction members can gain high level gear by killing lowly wisps, daemons, silver serpents, or Ogre Lords, while non faction players have to battle impalers and Dark Fathers, Travesty and the like. The answer is NOT "then just join factions and stop #$%$'ing".

4. The day they implement Passive detect or insurance on Siege is the day I shut down my accounts.

5. Stealth is not overpowered, and nothing needs be done to "fix" it. It isn't broken. As I've stated many times before, there are many many many ways to get someone out of stealth, and Detect Hidden isn't needed. Earthquakes, poison fields, wild fires, conflag pots, and explosion pots... to name a few. Implementing passive detect gives 100 free points to a template AND as it is passive, requires no effort whatsoever to use it.
Those who do run GM Detect Hidden complain that the timer to retry is the same as the timer to hide, thereby allowing the hider to hide continuously as they are revealed. Anyone who knows about setting up a macro knows you can set it to attack nearest mobile, causing you to flag on the hider and disallowing them to re-enter hidden state without first breakign line of sight. Further, Those who run GM Detect also benefit from increased potentcy of the Reveal Spell, which there is no timer for. If you have fast cast / fast recovery, you can cast 4 or 5 times between detect Skill checks. Passive detect needs to remain in Trammel.

6. Who knows? I'll buy your forged pardons for 20k per!

 

[Mr.StinkyPants]

shut ur faces already and log in

 

[Hugibear]

Nightstalker every way you posted to reveal a stealther would only work if the stealth character is new to that template. Anyone who has played the temp in pvp should say it is OP. Here is why: Earthquakes if you are in stealth and see another character casting eq simply just move in the other direction. You will be outta range before the quake goes off. Poison fields simply eat an orange petal, you wont be revealed unless you are dumb enough to stand there for a minute. Wildfire only affective if you have high spellweaving, and again slow casting time. I see someone casting it i just stealth away. Conflags mildly affective, the reason being it doesnt reveal you all the time. Once thrown you can use another for like 20 seconds. Explosion pots unless you have great timing this is hard to do and again it doesnt reveal you all the time. Another problem with all the previous is you need to know where the stealther is to target the area. GM detect easily avoided, run a shadow strike weapon, now you can hide, smoke, or shadowstrike. It is easiest to shadowstrike your own mirror image, you cant miss.

Passive reveal is needed asap. The skills and how they work are based around passive detect. It wouldnt be an extra 100 points, it would just make where you cant play in easy mode anymore. You play a stealther, I play all temps and I am telling you stealth is very overpowered. Anytime you wish to put your methods to a test, you and 1 other can try to kill me. If you can I will pay you a million goldies. When I win I will just loot your corpses.

 

[nightstalker22]

You play a stealther, I play all temps and I am telling you stealth is very overpowered. Anytime you wish to put your methods to a test, you and 1 other can try to kill me. If you can I will pay you a million goldies. When I win I will just loot your corpses.

I have 28 soulstones. I don't always play a stealther, and I know how to reveal them. Revealing you and killing you are two different things. I run GM armour without UOA, you run faction gear and who knows how many 3rd party programs. Your challenge is pointless. I'd only need reveal you to prove the point.

Keep crying for a nerf to alleviate your ineptitude. Just know that if you get it, the population will suffer, and you'll have less and less people to passively reveal... you might even complain it isn't working, but in reality, there is nobody left on Siege.

 

[Freelsy]

I have 28 soulstones. I don't always play a stealther, and I know how to reveal them. Revealing you and killing you are two different things. I run GM armour without UOA, you run faction gear and who knows how many 3rd party programs. Your challenge is pointless. I'd only need reveal you to prove the point.

Keep crying for a nerf to alleviate your ineptitude. Just know that if you get it, the population will suffer, and you'll have less and less people to passively reveal... you might even complain it isn't working, but in reality, there is nobody left on Siege.

LOL. Spoken like a trammie. You have to reveal someone long enough to kill them... Thus stealth is overpowered. Hell all i play is dexxer temps, 80% of which have stealth. its way overpowered. But I would like to see you reveal him in battle...because we're not talking about revealing a thief wondering around town. We're talking about revealing and killing someone who understands the mechanics of it. Its hard, nearly impossible 1v1

 

[Kat]

I have 28 soulstones. I don't always play a stealther, and I know how to reveal them. Revealing you and killing you are two different things. I run GM armour without UOA, you run faction gear and who knows how many 3rd party programs. Your challenge is pointless. I'd only need reveal you to prove the point.

Keep crying for a nerf to alleviate your ineptitude. Just know that if you get it, the population will suffer, and you'll have less and less people to passively reveal... you might even complain it isn't working, but in reality, there is nobody left on Siege.

LOL. Spoken like a trammie. You have to reveal someone long enough to kill them... Thus stealth is overpowered. Hell all i play is dexxer temps, 80% of which have stealth. its way overpowered. But I would like to see you reveal him in battle...because we're not talking about revealing a thief wondering around town. We're talking about revealing and killing someone who understands the mechanics of it. Its hard, nearly impossible 1v1

And now you have spoken like someone who wants something for nothing. Detect hidden is the counter to stealth. A stealther has to use a minimum of 170 skill points to actually stealth and it only requires 100 points to counter them. Its not that stealth is over powered, the problem is that your guild refuses to take on a skill to counter them which, in turn, reduces your damage output.

 

[Roland']

And now you have spoken like someone who wants something for nothing. Detect hidden is the counter to stealth. A stealther has to use a minimum of 170 skill points to actually stealth and it only requires 100 points to counter them. Its not that stealth is over powered, the problem is that your guild refuses to take on a skill to counter them which, in turn, reduces your damage output.

Doesnt death strike require stealth and hiding to do damage? so if stealth hide is serving 2 purposes, 170 / 2 = 85.

 

[Kat]

And now you have spoken like someone who wants something for nothing. Detect hidden is the counter to stealth. A stealther has to use a minimum of 170 skill points to actually stealth and it only requires 100 points to counter them. Its not that stealth is over powered, the problem is that your guild refuses to take on a skill to counter them which, in turn, reduces your damage output.

Doesnt death strike require stealth and hiding to do damage? so if stealth hide is serving 2 purposes, 170 / 2 = 85.

1. Not every stealther has ninjitsu
2. I don't hear them complaining about death strike
3. So what if those skills serve two purposes? Its still a minimum of 170 points vs. 100.

Bottom line is stealth is a non-issue.

 

[Hugibear]

Have any of you against passive reveal played a server where it is active? If so have you played a stealther? I highly doubt it. If either of you had you wouldnt be crying for it not to be put on this server.
Telling people I am using any other program besides anything that is approved is a joke, and a very far stretch. That is just an excuse as to why you cant reveal me. What is the point of revealing someone if you cant kill them?

You and Kat would be lost if you didnt have your easy buttons (smokebombs) to play this game and that is why you two are arguing so much for it not to be put onto siege.

Why dont you two get together and take me up on my million goldie challenge? Because you both know that in the right hands hide stealth and ninja is unstoppable. And that is the problem in the right hands without passive reveal you cant stop a decent player.

 

[Hugibear]

Another thing, Nightstalker everything you said I rebutted with logic and the truth. What did you come back with insults and accusations. If I know I was going to argue with Drax I wouldnt have even bothered.

As for Kat, how come 300 points (not even) makes it where you cant be killed? You dont think that is overpowered? Because when I run it I dont die, and get a ton of kills. Just ask your guildies last couple times they were on. I showed up with hide stealth killed about 3 of them and than watched them cry in chat about me having stealth. aahahahah

 

[John Connelly]

Have any of you against passive reveal played a server where it is active? If so have you played a stealther?

A fair compromise could be that a player with 100 Detect Hidden has a good chance to passive reveal a stealth hider. However I do not think that privilege should go to someone who has not got the skill.

 

[Kat]

Another thing, Nightstalker everything you said I rebutted with logic and the truth. What did you come back with insults and accusations. If I know I was going to argue with Drax I wouldnt have even bothered.

As for Kat, how come 300 points (not even) makes it where you cant be killed? You dont think that is overpowered? Because when I run it I dont die, and get a ton of kills. Just ask your guildies last couple times they were on. I showed up with hide stealth killed about 3 of them and than watched them cry in chat about me having stealth. aahahahah

Well, you and your guild like to claim all of TnT are stealthers, as you all have mentioned on this very forum numerous times, yet you just professed to killing 3 of them and making them cry. So which is it? Are they easy kills or overpowered stealthers who cannot be killed?


As for the easy button... I suppose you're the expert on that, what with your constant use of the faction rune to teleport away from anyone who does the slightest damage to you.

Those runes most certainly belong on the list of changes.

 

[Draxous]

And now you have spoken like someone who wants something for nothing. Detect hidden is the counter to stealth. A stealther has to use a minimum of 170 skill points to actually stealth and it only requires 100 points to counter them. Its not that stealth is over powered, the problem is that your guild refuses to take on a skill to counter them which, in turn, reduces your damage output.

No. Detect hidden is not the counter to stealth. Players instantly re-hide AND stealth away after being revealed.

Bottom line: stealth is an issue and more than 80% of the siege population abuses it.

 

[Elmer Fudd]

And now you have spoken like someone who wants something for nothing. Detect hidden is the counter to stealth. A stealther has to use a minimum of 170 skill points to actually stealth and it only requires 100 points to counter them. Its not that stealth is over powered, the problem is that your guild refuses to take on a skill to counter them which, in turn, reduces your damage output.

Spoken like a true no skill Stealther who never PvP's and has no clue how to pvp, but loves the skill because its the only skill she has some chance of wandering outside her house with, with no risk...we have established your input on this matter has zero credablility...you always have known nothing about pvp and still do, as shown by yer post above...Sheyli was only one who ran a template to counter a stealther and he even needed to second person to be affective like a moving shot archer, and then he was only affective 50% percent of the time, so add that up...1440 skill points to try and take out a stelather.....wow....and then u might not be able to do it still....

 

[Elmer Fudd]

Why dont you two get together and take me up on my million goldie challenge? Because you both know that in the right hands hide stealth and ninja is unstoppable. And that is the problem in the right hands without passive reveal you cant stop a decent player.

Hell, ill get into this....knightstalker and Kat....Ill give you five mill gold to split between both of you guys, and tell you where im at and hell, ill even show for enough time for you two god like pvpers to get me on fricking tracking and if you can kill me in a certain time frame that we will all agree on....you got five mill gold for you to split....im with hugi....lets see it....tell me when and where and ill go put stealth and hide back on

 

[nightstalker22]

A fair compromise could be that a player with 100 Detect Hidden has a good chance to passive reveal a stealth hider. However I do not think that privilege should go to someone who has not got the skill.

This could be a possibility, but I would say no to revealing, just detecting... more like how it passively detects traps on the ground when you walk near them with the skill, instead of traps, it alerts you to players presence in the area ( not pin pointing their location like tracking does, as that is another skill ), but not thier name or color ( Red, Blue, Orange, Grey ).

Power scroll the skill to 120 and allow the color to be known at 110 skill and name at 120 skill, all the while increasing chance for passive detect past GM, but NEVER reveal them without actual use of the skill.

This change would force stealthers to go 120 Stealth to counter the passive detect ( not reveal ).

 

[nightstalker22]

Another thing, Nightstalker everything you said I rebutted with logic and the truth. What did you come back with insults and accusations. If I know I was going to argue with Drax I wouldnt have even bothered.

A two for one special today on insults?

I've said all I am going to say on the issue, so I will allow you the final word.

It would be pretty petty to gain real life enemies over the content of a video game.

The floor is yours.

 

[Hugibear]

Kat never said all tnt were stealthers, just 80% aka most. Like I said in my post anyone good that knows what they are doing it is difficult to reveal and kill them. Your guild isnt that good. You are just changin the subject because you know what I said makes sense and you realize there is nothing you can say to rebut it. I also never said the runes belong on siege, but they are here just like your hide stealth so I will use them just like you and your guild uses houses. The runes only work if you arent flagged, so they stop you from getting ganked again just like your smokebombs.

Nightstalker do you really think the devs are going to put time in to change the way a certain skill works just on siege. You are out of your mind for even suggesting it. The devs arent going to put the time in for siege, they have already said this. This is why we are pushing for passive reveal, it is already on prodo shards and it works as intended.

Both of you are must not want this shard to move forward. Why cant y'all understand without change this shard is going to be completely dead. Ask the farmers if they think it is fair I can stealth right up ontop of them waiting till they are busy doing something and than pop out and cheap shot them to death in under 3 seconds. It sucks and it makes people quit.

 

[Monolith]

I remember riding Binky's ass back in the day. Wilki's too. Even Jeremy's.... Look at where we have gotten... oh yea, dont look. Damn I want so bad to come back. Damn I miss the people and the memories in this game. DAMN!, I cant believe how long we have been ignored. Just two months ago Kat and Bruin were at the lead with so many changes to Siege. Most I liked, some I didnt. But then, they were being listened too. For the most part, since I have experienced it in the past, I was skeptical anything would change. Now I know, nothing has changed. So much effort Kat put into changes in this shard, now look. Because of this and their positive outlook, I was getting ready to jump back in. Now I feel like she, and the rest of us, have been slapped in the face. What has changed? What will change? Hell I guess just as much that has changed over the last few years... oh wait.... bad example.

If a change is going to be made, it needs to be one that will keep the current low population, and bring back a large former population. This will make Siege great again!

Seige not only needs to change for the current players, it has to change for former players. I was in WoW vent tonight with former REV players who said they were currently playing UO on a different type of playing field and there were tons of players! Makes me wanna sail to an island.

Damn, I miss you guys and miss pissing my pathetic enemies off to the point of mental breakdown...

..yea, you guys know who you are lol.

I agree with ya HaHa, Yeap.....play UO as it is or just quit. Everyone can't have the game their way; which by human nature, everyone will just complain about skills/templates that doesn't compliment their play style. I'll guarantee Mages will always defend skills/templates that revolves around their play style, and same goes for dexxers and any other temps. Looks to me that noone will be fully satisfied with this game. There has always been players complaining about skills/temps since this game came out and I don't see it stopping. So the endstate is.....either enjoy the game as is or just freakin quit until a new change come out that brings you back to the game. All this crying and arguing doesn't help anything!!!!!!

 

[Draxous]

A fair compromise could be that a player with 100 Detect Hidden has a good chance to passive reveal a stealth hider. However I do not think that privilege should go to someone who has not got the skill.

This could be a possibility, but I would say no to revealing, just detecting... more like how it passively detects traps on the ground when you walk near them with the skill, instead of traps, it alerts you to players presence in the area ( not pin pointing their location like tracking does, as that is another skill ), but not thier name or color ( Red, Blue, Orange, Grey ).

Awesome. So nothing changes because when a player reveals the stealther, the stealther instantly hides again and stealths away.

Problems should be fixed by not fixing the problem. Awesome.

rolleyes:

 

[kelmo]

*chuckles* The Devs are not the idiots some make them out to be. They see agendas. Siege will never be a PvP shard only. If that is your line of thinking you are wrong.

We role players, casual players, folks who do not care for the math... yet like the thought of this shard have a place here.

We play and we are out there. We are taking care of ourselves the best we can.

Some of these steathers are the best folks on our shard. Always willing to give. Some are not. I know. I understand the min/max thing.

Getting to the point... We play our game. kill each other adnaseum.

 

[N49ATV]

Removing faction arties is not the answer, well not unless they increase the rate of real arties 15 fold or better.

I know everyone non faction wants them gone, cause it gives and advantage. But explain to me the advantage you would have without them, and the rich people buying all the arties up, and thus they still hold all the cards, and you are farther behind. Imbuing cant replace arties. So when the rich have all the good items (cause they have ganked or killed you and looted them), your left in a barbed suit, with some imbued properties, with an overall suit 60% of thier arty suit.

 

[N49ATV]

Would you settle for a more fogiving detect hidden skill (easier to detect), and if detected with the skill, the stealther is unable to hide and stealth for a timer equal to that of the detect timer? And a message pops up when you try gives a different error message. Or have a timer between hide and stealth? Counting steps is dump IMO, but should still have to wait a timer out between skills, even if its a reduced one, this would give people less of a chance to get away when being chased, or detected.

 

[Kael]

I agree with ya HaHa, Yeap.....play UO as it is or just quit. Everyone can't have the game their way; which by human nature, everyone will just complain about skills/templates that doesn't compliment their play style. I'll guarantee Mages will always defend skills/templates that revolves around their play style, and same goes for dexxers and any other temps. Looks to me that noone will be fully satisfied with this game. There has always been players complaining about skills/temps since this game came out and I don't see it stopping. So the endstate is.....either enjoy the game as is or just freakin quit until a new change come out that brings you back to the game. All this crying and arguing doesn't help anything!!!!!!

I like the honesty of this post...everyone always defends what is important to them and their templates.

 

[Draxous]

*chuckles* The Devs are not the idiots some make them out to be. They see agendas. Siege will never be a PvP shard only. If that is your line of thinking you are wrong.

We role players, casual players, folks who do not care for the math... yet like the thought of this shard have a place here.

We play and we are out there. We are taking care of ourselves the best we can.

Some of these steathers are the best folks on our shard. Always willing to give. Some are not. I know. I understand the min/max thing.

Getting to the point... We play our game. kill each other adnaseum.

Say what?

The discussion on stealth is not about making Siege a PvP shard or about it being one.

Passive detect is only being pushed because it's so easy to implement.

Most everyone here agrees something needs to be done about stealth. Push for an alternative or support passive detect, we don't care. But this "stealth is not an issue" talk is nothing but nonsense and everyone knows it.

 

[Elmer Fudd]

I agree with ya HaHa, Yeap.....play UO as it is or just quit. Everyone can't have the game their way; which by human nature, everyone will just complain about skills/templates that doesn't compliment their play style. I'll guarantee Mages will always defend skills/templates that revolves around their play style, and same goes for dexxers and any other temps. Looks to me that noone will be fully satisfied with this game. There has always been players complaining about skills/temps since this game came out and I don't see it stopping. So the endstate is.....either enjoy the game as is or just freakin quit until a new change come out that brings you back to the game. All this crying and arguing doesn't help anything!!!!!!

I had to run a stealther dismounter for well over a year or so because of a move into a bad area with poor internet...so im torn between your view and taking up the cause for how OP stealth actually is also....cause it was my template for a while...

 

[John Connelly]

I had to run a stealther dismounter for well over a year or so because of a move into a bad area with poor internet

That's a good argument for leaving stealth as it is. Players choose Trammy shards where they have the best ping. Siege is where it is and there is no option to move to a version of Siege where the connection is better.

Your temporary problem with poor internet where you admit you "had to run a stealther", is for many people a permanent situation. For example, my ping recently dropped to about 250 and while I feel like I am speed hacking many would find this unplayable. Without stealth, Siege would not be an option for many players.

 

[Draxous]

I had to run a stealther dismounter for well over a year or so because of a move into a bad area with poor internet

That's a good argument for leaving stealth as it is. Players choose Trammy shards where they have the best ping. Siege is where it is and there is no option to move to a version of Siege where the connection is better.

Your temporary problem with poor internet where you admit you "had to run a stealther", is for many people a permanent situation. For example, my ping recently dropped to about 250 and while I feel like I am speed hacking many would find this unplayable. Without stealth, Siege would not be an option for many players.

No one's asking to remove the skill from the game... I don't understand why guys like you and kat exaggerate the gravity of the situation so much.

With this change, you will still find stealthers happily stealthing away on Siege. You simply won't find players abusing it.

 

[Kat]

No one's asking to remove the skill from the game... I don't understand why guys like you and kat exaggerate the gravity of the situation so much.

With this change, you will still find stealthers happily stealthing away on Siege. You simply won't find players abusing it.

Thats the thing, we aren't the ones exaggerating. You have a counter to stealth, you simply refuse to add it to your template because you'd rather have more damage output. Its all about choices.

 

[Hugibear]

have any of the three arguing even tried to see what passive reveal is about? Do you know you can still stealth around? The only time passive reveal is going to affect anyone is when you are trying to stealth thru a bunch of people. Do you understand that. So for all the pvms, and those that want to stealth around, you just need to be more careful. Why dont you people try to understand a system before shooting it down?
And it isnt a 100% reveal when you walk by someone. Its like 50/50 if you are one tile away. It goes up if you they are elf. Whats the big problem here?

 

[Freelsy]

have any of the three arguing even tried to see what passive reveal is about? Do you know you can still stealth around? The only time passive reveal is going to affect anyone is when you are trying to stealth thru a bunch of people. Do you understand that. So for all the pvms, and those that want to stealth around, you just need to be more careful. Why dont you people try to understand a system before shooting it down?
And it isnt a 100% reveal when you walk by someone. Its like 50/50 if you are one tile away. It goes up if you they are elf. Whats the big problem here?

I can answer that one for you Hugi. Its a type of insurance, or its trammy, or its not in the spirit of siege.... or some other lame ass excuse.

They don't want what they don't understand. Mindless rabble...