TSO Money Wipe Petition -PLEASE READ!!!

[Guest]

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The developement team has spent months making this merge happen because the community wanted it.

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We did?

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Anytime the discussion came up here on stratics many people were all for it. Majority of the minority that was not all for it weren't for it simply b/c they did not want to leave their beloved cities, or their sentimental lots. EA managed to work it out so that everyone would be able to keep lot properties and such and their map. That majority of the minority then joined the vast majority that was all for the merge.

I've seen this discussion happen at least 3 or 4 times (I'm probably low balling) with many posts contributed. The fact that anyone claims to be surprised makes me giggle.

And if someone didn't get to join in on the several discussions and voice their unpopular opinion at those times, that is not EA's problem.

If you don't get to the polls in time your vote doesn't get counted.
Ya know?

 

[Guest]

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I've seen this discussion happen at least 3 or 4 times (I'm probably low balling) with many posts contributed.

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And that doesn't include the countless other threads that were dragged off-topic to become a discussion about merging.

 

[imported_DutchAmerica]

I agree Jackie.

I was one of the 'against a merge' posters. I was totally against losing my city and was extremely apprehensive about losing my sims. The loss of only my money was the least of all evils to me.

As everyone should remember I was a pretty tough sell and now I'm labelled with the other 'pro-merge, pro-money wipe' folks. lol

I also took a little time this weekend to play the PC version of The Sims and boy was it sweet to ctrl Alt and get a motherlode of simoleans to build whatever I wanted. But to be honest, I was board with it in just a few hours....which is pretty much what has become of TSO. We don't have a 'money cheat' but it doesn't take long for players to get a ton of money, do it all and are board and ready to quit.

But how can we discuss simoleans wiping without attaching the merge to it because it's all part of the merge package.

 

[Roger Wilco]

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If you don't get to the polls in time your vote doesn't get counted.
Ya know?

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Great attitude. No problem, non-voters can always vote with their wallets, which will give you the opportunity to make equally insightful remarks about them as they are leaving.

Current poll results:
Leaving the game....not planning to move to EA Land. 23%

The fact of the matter is every poll ever conducted here up until recently people were voting no merge/no wipe. Additionally, no effort was made to contact the 99% of players who never even read this site for a monumental change to the game. An in game poll should have been conducted.

 

[imported_corpatortis]

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If you don't get to the polls in time your vote doesn't get counted.
Ya know?

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Great attitude. No problem, non-voters can always vote with their wallets, which will give you the opportunity to make equally insightful remarks about them as they are leaving.

Current poll results:
Leaving the game....not planning to move to EA Land. 23%

The fact of the matter is every poll ever conducted here up until recently people were voting no merge/no wipe. Additionally, no effort was made to contact the 99% of players who never even read this site for a monumental change to the game. An in game poll should have been conducted.

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23% of the population voting is not 23% of the total population.

For argument's sake let's say it did mean 23% of total TSO players. As if new players couldn't come in.

Additionally, the game was dying and EA decided to change things instead of let it die. Either way your cities would be gone. The end.

 

[Guest]

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They did not ask our opinions on the merge, and they do not care what our opinions are on it.

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And you wonder why those of us against the wipe are so bitter? HELLO?! This is the problem...they DIDN'T ask our opinions on this and they DON'T care what we think. That's the problem. We weren't consulted on the merge/wipe. Maybe in TC3 (The only city that seems to matter these days), but not everyone has a sim in TC3.

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Actually they did consult us on merging the cities. If you recall, they didn't plan on doing it at all. It wasn't until the idea surfaced and was discussed here that they decided it do it.

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And for the record...I've never been against the merge of cities...It's the wipe I'm against. I am totally for a partial wipe (which I'm sure would solve the "economy" problem.). Heck, I even voted for it in a poll here. But a total wipe? uh uh....no way, no how. I don't care how much they lower prices of items. I don't see any way of this working. Sure it won't matter to the new players, but to those of us playing since beta, it's a HUGE problem. We've worked our butts off and are being punished for it.


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Maybe you should define how you are using "partial wipe" and "total wipe".
To me, a "total wipe" is <u>everything</u>. Simoleans, objects, house and sim. A total wipe was done a few weeks prior to the game being released. That is why many Founder sims had the same create date, they were all created after a total wipe.
A "partial wipe" to me is exactly what we are getting. They are wiping only simoleans, or only part of our sim's existence.

I assume what you mean is that you'd like them to wipe only part of the simoleans. Maybe each sim moving in from the current cities gets to keep a small sum of simoleans. How about 2 or 4 times the normal starting amount in EALand? The EA team would have to figure out what impact adding that amount of simoleans would have on the economy though.
The TC to TC3 merge would be a good time to test it.

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I sit corrected Milton

you are correct, the merge is happening because we as the community asked for it. I should have said that they did not ask our opinions on the wipe, not the merge. The wipe is a consequence of us getting what we asked for on the merge, so I still don't see where anybody has room to complain.

As for the repair costs not correlating with the new prices if you don't buy them at the new prices, there are 2 simple solutions for that. 1) you can call the repairman and he will only charge 50 simoleans a sim hour no matter what the cost for you to repair it would be, or 2) if the break happens during the time the repairman is 'off duty' then just replace the item when it breaks instead of repairing it and then you'll have an item at the new price and repairs from that point forward will be at the right price. Things don't break down that often. If a player is dedicated at making money for a few short days they will not have any problems replacing small items like toilets and showers. The biggest issues I see in replacing stuff will be expensive things, like the mechanical bulls if you have a body skill house, but I don't see anybody having those for quite a while anyway, so at this point that issue is moot.

Once again though, instead of griping and arguing about how unfair things are, use that energy creatively to find solutions on how to fix it. Think of this merge as a time of famine for the game......survival of the fittest. Only the most dedicated, the most creative and the most ingenious will survive. The way I see it this will situation will separate the 'boys from the men' so to speak....it will prove who the hardcore gamers are and who the casual 'gimme something for nothing or very little' gamers are. Instead of thinking of this as a pain in the ass, I'm thinking of it as a challenge....we are fighting for our sim lives. Think of it as Survivor: The Sims Online!

 

[Guest]

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If you don't get to the polls in time your vote doesn't get counted.
Ya know?

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Great attitude. No problem, non-voters can always vote with their wallets, which will give you the opportunity to make equally insightful remarks about them as they are leaving.

Current poll results:
Leaving the game....not planning to move to EA Land. 23%

The fact of the matter is every poll ever conducted here up until recently people were voting no merge/no wipe. Additionally, no effort was made to contact the 99% of players who never even read this site for a monumental change to the game. An in game poll should have been conducted.

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23% of the population voting is not 23% of the total population.

For argument's sake let's say it did mean 23% of total TSO players. As if new players couldn't come in.

Additionally, the game was dying and EA decided to change things instead of let it die. Either way your cities would be gone. The end.

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Exactly.
With things as they stood 5 months ago, there were more people leaving then coming in.
Now there are some coming in/back to see whats what.
When there is an actual new game to play (and try for free but with limited access) there will be more players.

Even if the 23% that is not enough to sway them away. That 23% will not pay the bills.

All the players starting out with no money will also even the playing field for newbies who find it hard to compete with billionaires.

A merged city will help newbies who previously would enter an empty city.
I'm sorry, I just don't see how the pro's do not outweigh the cons here.

 

[imported_DutchAmerica]

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If you don't get to the polls in time your vote doesn't get counted.
Ya know?

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Great attitude. No problem, non-voters can always vote with their wallets, which will give you the opportunity to make equally insightful remarks about them as they are leaving.

Current poll results:
Leaving the game....not planning to move to EA Land. 23%

The fact of the matter is every poll ever conducted here up until recently people were voting no merge/no wipe. Additionally, no effort was made to contact the 99% of players who never even read this site for a monumental change to the game. An in game poll should have been conducted.

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The vast majority of my 'older' friends are pretty much and have been pretty much for a merge that keeps the integrity of their sims and their homes and really don't find losing their simoleans a problem. Heck, a lot of them didn't even know there was a money glitch that's how much they care about simoleans.

And chatting with many players 'ingame', they are mostly all for the changes because the game really needs it! There are a very very few squeaky wheels in game over the 'changes' ahead.

BTW...I'm sorry but I'm tired of you folks waving your wallets in the air. Sorry to say but the old 'wallets' haven't been keeping the game afloat. It's the wallets of the flexible old players and new wallets that the changes that will bring in that will. It's so lame for the 'Wallet Wavers' to try to 'blackmail' us with their wallets.

 

[Guest]

I think it would be a simple enough thing for them to lower repair costs by a percentage like they did our income, like they did price of objects. So if they lowered what we can earn by 90%, then why can't they lower repair costs by 90% to reflect that? If they lowered prices to purchase by 75%, lower repair costs by 75%. If they lowered crafting costs by 50%, lower the repairs for those accordingly, I hope someone is getting the idea. There should be a set price for fixing each certain object, it shouldn't matter if someone paid different prices for it, they should still cost the same to have repaired, and that should be ??% less than it use to be because we start with and earn that much less and because the prices have been lowered in general and the sell back is 0. I'm not sure which would be a number they would agree on, but I still feel something needs to be done to lower the costs to repair.

Gracie, you make it sound like the entire team works on this one issue, and I know you know better. This is an important issue, just because you run a store, therefore can just buy yourself new (at lowest cost) when needed, and you don't own much in crafted objects doesn't mean it won't effect many others.

I have often seen a newbie jump to fix something because they click it and get that option. They love to try it and see what happens. With only $100 they aren't even going to be able to try on most objects.

I have always helped the houses I am at by calling the repairman if it was during his working hours or by fixing things myself if I had a sim with mech. I thought it was being helpful, when suddenly a room would go red and the repairman was hours away. Shame on me for trying to help.

If lowering repair costs would cause too much trouble, then make the repairman available 24 hours a sim day. Simple enough, I would think.

Oh and don't even start with drains... pfftttt nothing left to drain

 

[imported_Gracie Nito]

It's not a matter of just reducing repair costs a certain percentage of what they were.

Our current system of repair costs is determined by the original price paid for that object. Prices have changed almost weekly in TC3 for the last 2 months. Everyone has paid different prices for things and is currently paying different repair costs. Someone that bought a grand piano the first week that TC3 opened is paying considerably more than the repair costs of someone that just purchased the same piano a week ago.


In the future when dynamic pricing begins, prices of objects will fluctuate constantly. If you buy something at a high price, the repairs for those items will be higher. If you buy something at a low price, the repairs for those items will be lower.

There comes a time in everyone's life they must make a choice to keep repairing old expensive objects or replace them.

We have new catalog items coming from the expansion packs. How should repair costs for all the new objects be set? What about custom content? What system do you propose we use for those?

I know the simplest solution is to make all objects unbreakable and do away with repair costs. However, if you take away this drain that is currently feeding a pool of money that we can earn in game, then making simoleans will become even harder. Removing a cost that is feeding the pool of simoleans we can earn in game will just lead to more dependence upon purchasing simoleans with cash from EA.

Every cost you reduce, is reducing the pool of simoleans in game that we can earn just by playing the game.

Everyone needs to think about the ramifications of decisions being made today and how they will affect the future of the game.

 

[imported_Dali Dalinza]

Well, the whole repair thing is STUPID. And I use that term with intention. Why should an expensive piano cost more to repair than a piano purchased after the price was lowered? Especially, as CG has pointed out, our ability to earn has been cut drastically? Imagine in real life if you called the plumber to fix your toilet, and he had to see the price you paid before calculating your bill.

Just stupid. No logic whatsoever.

If wages and prices are being adjusted, then repair costs need to be adjusted -- across the board.

I have to wonder what motivates some of you who seem to have such glee at making the economics of this game Draconian? This is THE SIMS, not Oliver Twist revisited. Making the economy dreary will drive players away -- especially new players. Come on, this is a GAME, supposed to be recreational and fun. Some of you guys make the Puritans look like party animals.

Geesh.

 

[Guest]

I agree it would be bad to take away the need to repair things, I think it adds to the game. Some of us love to fix things and see our magic fingers fly. And it's great fun to see someone fried trying to fix a broken light. But I don't see why a piano, no matter what the price of it was to start with can't be changed to cost the same to repair. As you say, prices have fluctuated and will continue to do so. So make the repair costs consistent instead, a % of an average price, why would that be so difficult?

I don't understand your thoughts on it to be honest. Many of us have crafted objects from friends that have always cost a small fortune to fix. Now, the way you talk we should do away with them and just get new ones at lower costs... I don't want to have to throw away gifts just because they cost too much to keep, do you? Maybe you have no gifts like that, I don't know, but I have many of them and I'm sure lots of others do as well.

If we are given a piddly $500 to share per week/month per account, that won't even fix one piano or one computer... that needs to be changed, whether you agree with it or not.

 

[Guest]

With only $100 they aren't even going to be able to try

The $100 is only the starting funds in TC3 today. My understanding is that paid accounts will receive a higher amount of "starting" funds after the merge. Perhaps equal to the monthly stipend paid accounts will henceforth receive? No one is going to enter EA-Land Simolean-less.

 

[Guest]

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Imagine in real life if you called the plumber to fix your toilet, and he had to see the price you paid before calculating your bill.

Just stupid. No logic whatsoever.

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You think the plumber didn't notice what neighborhood you live in or what is parked in the driveway when he pulls up?

However, I agree that there should be a fixed cost to repair each item regardless of what was paid for the purchase.

 

[imported_Gracie Nito]

I painstakenly went through the process of locating every object in game that provided food and then went about creating a new cost solution to food prices and posted it on the wiki.

If you have ideas of what repairs should cost and would like to recommend a cost of repair for every object currently in game you are more than welcome to do so.

This is obviously something you feel passionate about. Set about putting your ideas on paper so that others can discuss and help you fine tune any flaws in your plans.

I would much rather a player that is familiar with the game and objects take on this project than rely on a developer that is already stretched thin on all the projects they are currently working on.

 

[Guest]

Weren't they lowered by a certain percentage? Therefore it would make sense to me, and seems an easy enough solution to make the cost of repair same for each object, regardless of purchase price, lowered by that same percentage. I do not see why any of us should have to do the work for them, they are the ones making the big bucks, they are the developers, not us. It was them that set up the ridiculous way it works now, so I am pretty sure, one of them could figure out a way to lower them across the boards without the need of a page on the wiki telling them what price to set each thing.

I know you went to a lot of trouble on the food, but it was me that brought up the food costs needing lowered. It was also me that brought up the cost of recharging spotlights needing lowered... but I see it's you who gets all the credit because you put it on the wiki? I was under the impression they read these boards, not just the wiki.

 

[Guest]

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I know you went to a lot of trouble on the food, but it was me that brought up the food costs needing lowered. It was also me that brought up the cost of recharging spotlights needing lowered... but I see it's you who gets all the credit because you put it on the wiki? I was under the impression they read these boards, not just the wiki

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Predictable response, I should have bet somebody that you would pipe up with something like this. You COULD have done what Gracie did since it was your original idea, but yeah it's Gracie that gets the credit because she was not LAZY enough not to put it on the Wiki where it was supposed to go. I don't post on the Wiki either, but I do read it and I don't bellyache when I see that somebody has extrapolated on a point that I brought up, which is what Gracie did. You brought up a simple point, SHE went through the trouble of doing some research and formatting and structuring it so it would be an appropriate entry on the Wiki.....something ANYBODY who is smart enough to post here CAN do. I'm really getting tired of you making choices to do things or not to do things, and then jumping into this victim role like you did what you 'had' to do and had no choice at all in the matter. I call major [censored] on this point. I'm sure Gracie probably wouldn't have a problem putting your name as a contributor to the idea.....that is if you had mentioned it nicely, but if you came at me the way you just attacked her, you wouldn't get a damn thing.

 

[Keep It Real]

I think it would be great if repairs were just done away with. What drain would replace repairs, I dunno, I am not paid to figure out the economy for EA, that's why they get paid the big bucks.



*OT* I think it would be a great idea if only active players with paid subscriptions could post on this forum .

 

[Guest]

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The fact of the matter is every poll ever conducted here up until recently people were voting no merge/no wipe.

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That is not true.

Stratics Front Page Poll archives.
Over 500 people voted in the poll, then it reset because of a glitch. The results were overwhelmingly in favor of a merge.

Final results on 782 votes: 76% favored the idea, 6% were against if completely. 18% didn't know.

The truth is, that National polls representing the entire population of the United States are done on 1 or 2 thousand people, and the collective (before &amp; after reset) vote on the city merge in the Front page poll had over that.

I believe that is more than fairly representitave of the game population of 9k, whether or not they read or post in Stratics.


City Hall follow-up poll.

With 126 voting: 60% voted to bring no money in the merge.....9% favored keeping the money.

The majority has spoken, like it or not, in polls and in countless threads....and the devs have listened.

Instead of starting a new game with a new economic dynamic, and leaving the old one to rot in it's own corruption, which was their first plan, they were persuaded to try to salvage something for the players still around, thru merging.

We are keeping those things that, the majority have said, were most important to them....rares, skill/locks, names, property, friend lists and even city maps. The only thing we are losing is the one thing that is totally toxic to the new game dynamic.....old money.

 

[Guest]

I think it would be a great idea if only active players with paid subscriptions could post on this forum .

Great idea! However, I think you should have at least 3 paid subscriptions to keep the riffraff out.

P.S. My comment is also off-topic.

 

[Guest]

You think the plumber didn't notice what neighborhood you live in or what is parked in the driveway when he pulls up?

That is an insult to any tradesman.

 

[Guest]

Reposting this because I was a bad bad sim *evil laugh*

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I am not taking the time to format something on the wiki these people are getting paid huge salaries to do. I think it's their job, not ours. I think it's bad enough I am paying them to beta test for them and even reporting bugs has become pointless because they don't fix them anyway.

I am sorry, Gracie, I know you do a lot to support even those of us who hate the way things are going, you are a great asset to the community. I felt the need to vent, and now regret it, for if it wasn't for you putting it where they bother to look, I'm sure they'd not have bothered changing anything. But I am just really disappointed in the fact that things apparently need to go on that wiki to start with. I tried to help there before and it wasn't appreciated at all so I don't see a point in bothering anymore.

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[imported_Dali Dalinza]

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Reposting this because I was a bad bad sim *evil laugh*

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I am not taking the time to format something on the wiki these people are getting paid huge salaries to do. I think it's their job, not ours. I think it's bad enough I am paying them to beta test for them and even reporting bugs has become pointless because they don't fix them anyway.

I am sorry, Gracie, I know you do a lot to support even those of us who hate the way things are going, you are a great asset to the community. I felt the need to vent, and now regret it, for if it wasn't for you putting it where they bother to look, I'm sure they'd not have bothered changing anything. But I am just really disappointed in the fact that things apparently need to go on that wiki to start with. I tried to help there before and it wasn't appreciated at all so I don't see a point in bothering anymore.

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CntryGrl -- There is a reason the old saying, "The squeaky wheel gets the grease," is an old saying. I know some people like the one about getting more flies with honey than vinegar, but they must not know about flies that pay more attention to vinegar (many types of flies, actually...). I think everyone's constructive comments are valuable, and especially experienced players like you and Gracie who know of what you speak, so keep on squeakin'...

 

[imported_DutchAmerica]

Squeaky wheels get greased....you get more flies with honey....

I like those sayings and they are very much true.

However, if people are contrary and not using common sense or fair reasoning, they often find themselves blowing into the wind ....or is that peeing into the fan?

After dealing with that 'other' so-called game site, I have gotten a much fuller appreciation for what is happening with our beloved TSO. Our team of devs are doing a fantastic job. In a very short time, our game went from running out of gas to full-warp speed.

Giving up my simoleans is just a little thing in the big plan. I have a feeling there will be much more to TSO then just jamming and skilling and I look forward to it.

 

[imported_Gracie Nito]

There have been many discussions on this forum, on the blog, in live chats, at game-blueprints.com and in the game regarding the economy of this game. Lots of people have contributed ideas and hashed out specifics of what has worked and what hasn't worked over the past five years. The developers did not arbitrarily decide to wipe all the money out. They researched and consulted with many for solutions and came to the conclusion that this was the best viable resolution to beginning a new world.

Yes! I have been here and contributed to the whole process of decisions being made. I have voiced my own concerns as well as concerns of players that don't feel comfortable speaking out in any of these forums. I can't even begin to count the number of players, in game, that have brought ideas and discusion to me while in game rather that post here.

The tso-e.com blog quickly filled with many great ideas from many people. Game-blueprints.com was created to better track and expand on some of the ideas originally put into the blog. For those of us that took the time to learn how to navigate and use the wiki, we set about transferring many great ideas from the blog to the wiki so they wouldn't be lost in a sea of discussions.

If I hear a valid argument or idea that I feel has merit I will continue to campaign and put forth those ideas to the developers on the wiki and in the pub. I am not going to keep track of who said what and when just to give them credit to stroke their ego. I have made it clear to most from the beginning that Ideas and concerns that I express here and anywhere have come from my continued involvement with every player I come in contact with on a daily basis.

I am grateful to be apart of a community that has as much passion about this game as I do. I appreciate everyone that takes the time out of their day to speak up, voice concerns and express new ideas.

You never know where the next great idea will come from in this awesome and creative community. You can bet your sweet bippy, I wil still be here to catch it, when it happens!

 

[Bindy]

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I know you went to a lot of trouble on the food, but it was me that brought up the food costs needing lowered. It was also me that brought up the cost of recharging spotlights needing lowered... but I see it's you who gets all the credit because you put it on the wiki? I was under the impression they read these boards, not just the wiki

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Predictable response, I should have bet somebody that you would pipe up with something like this. You COULD have done what Gracie did since it was your original idea, but yeah it's Gracie that gets the credit because she was not LAZY enough not to put it on the Wiki where it was supposed to go. I don't post on the Wiki either, but I do read it and I don't bellyache when I see that somebody has extrapolated on a point that I brought up, which is what Gracie did. You brought up a simple point, SHE went through the trouble of doing some research and formatting and structuring it so it would be an appropriate entry on the Wiki.....something ANYBODY who is smart enough to post here CAN do. I'm really getting tired of you making choices to do things or not to do things, and then jumping into this victim role like you did what you 'had' to do and had no choice at all in the matter. I call major [censored] on this point. I'm sure Gracie probably wouldn't have a problem putting your name as a contributor to the idea.....that is if you had mentioned it nicely, but if you came at me the way you just attacked her, you wouldn't get a damn thing.

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And a few of us are sick of you butting into things that dont have anything to do with you. Im sure Grace and CG can hash this out without you adding your two cents in and trying to flame the fires.

 

[NightFlyer]

Keep up the good work, Gracie.

We may not agree on everything but I, for one, appreciate your efforts.

 

[Guest]

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I know you went to a lot of trouble on the food, but it was me that brought up the food costs needing lowered. It was also me that brought up the cost of recharging spotlights needing lowered... but I see it's you who gets all the credit because you put it on the wiki? I was under the impression they read these boards, not just the wiki

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Predictable response, I should have bet somebody that you would pipe up with something like this. You COULD have done what Gracie did since it was your original idea, but yeah it's Gracie that gets the credit because she was not LAZY enough not to put it on the Wiki where it was supposed to go. I don't post on the Wiki either, but I do read it and I don't bellyache when I see that somebody has extrapolated on a point that I brought up, which is what Gracie did. You brought up a simple point, SHE went through the trouble of doing some research and formatting and structuring it so it would be an appropriate entry on the Wiki.....something ANYBODY who is smart enough to post here CAN do. I'm really getting tired of you making choices to do things or not to do things, and then jumping into this victim role like you did what you 'had' to do and had no choice at all in the matter. I call major [censored] on this point. I'm sure Gracie probably wouldn't have a problem putting your name as a contributor to the idea.....that is if you had mentioned it nicely, but if you came at me the way you just attacked her, you wouldn't get a damn thing.

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And a few of us are sick of you butting into things that dont have anything to do with you. Im sure Grace and CG can hash this out without you adding your two cents in and trying to flame the fires.

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I can't believe I'm actually going to say this but she can reply to whatever she wants as this is a public forum. IF the discussion is out in the open it does not belong to the two people involved within said discussion, but to the community. The community consists of anyone who is a member of this forum. If Gracie wanted the debate to be private and specific, she would take it to PM.

 

[Guest]

All posting in the Stratics message boards are open to *public* discussion by members and for reading by non-members.

There are no exculsions or expectations of privacy allowed here, and anyone posting a thread must expect any and all comment posted within the <font color="blue">Rules of Conduct</font>.

Private Messages are for discussions you wish to keep between a few or specific people.

This is also a nudge to everyone posting here, to please keep on topic.

Thank you.

 

[Keep It Real]

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Keep up the good work, Gracie.

We may not agree on everything but I, for one, appreciate your efforts.

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Ditto Gracie!

 

[Bindy]

*TTL*

LOL oh my I forgot myself there now didnt I? Of course please Flame and Attack away, what was I thinking?

Heaven help if anyone is truly upset over how things are being handled here and on the wiki without others getting their chance to attack them for saying so. I must have been insane before. How dare I?

And to KEEP this on topic, the money wipe stinks I dont care how many of you want it or are looking forward to it. I think it out and out stinks!

 

[Guest]

Anyone has a right to be opposed to the wipe and express that opposition as many places and times as is appropriate (fits the topic of the thread).

Anyone else, also has the right to be in favor of the wipe and to express those opinions as many times and places, as is appropriate.

The fact that more people post in favor of the wipe than in opposition, does not make it "flaming or attacking" when they post those opinions. No one has grounds, to claim a right to express the minority opinion at every opportunity, while denying the majority the same right to respond with their opinions, just as often.

It sucks to be in the minority on something we feel passionate about....been there, done that .....but that is the nature of being a minority opinion....there will always be more posts by the majority, it's about the numbers and not personal, unless we chose to take it that way.

There is a clear majority in favor of the wipe. The coding and schedule is already set up to wipe simoleons at the merge. The new economy is designed to a more controled money situation and the old money does not work in the new system. There is just no, significant enough, opposition or reason to recode it, at this late date.

And that is my opinion....freely expressed.

 

[imported_Dali Dalinza]

TTL

I disagree that the majority of players are in favor of the wipe. I think the players who are against the wipe don't feel comfortable saying so. Anyone who says they don't like the idea is painted as someone who is trying to trash the devs, stand in the way of the game being "saved" -- or, worse, voting for an end to the game.

We are all passionate about this game or we wouldn't be expending energy debating the points.

There are not many posters here who I have not encountered in game. I can't think of any of you that I haven't enjoyed as a fellow player.

Some players have told me they have been treated badly in game because they posted unpopular views in these forums. I've never had that happen. Back stabbing is the sum of my experience, but I don't care about my little sim's back *shrugs* However, I think what happens here on Stratics should stay here on Stratics.

We cannot settle the issue over whether the money wipe is good or bad, positive or negative. In the long run, only time will tell. I'll respect your right to speak out in favor of it, and extend me the same courtesy, please. I'd suggest we lay bets as to how history will prove us, but that would be gambling...

 

[Guest]

Your agreement is not required, for the truth to remain the truth. But you are free to bury your head in the sand, if it makes you feel better.

Calling posters who do not agree with your point of view; "cheerleader", "mindless drone" (Bindy's siggie) and generally painting them as brainless, ass-kissing sycophants.....is not a course of behavior likely to generate hugs and kisses in return.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Your agreement is not required, for the truth to remain the truth. But you are free to bury your head in the sand, if it makes you feel better.

Calling posters who do not agree with your point of view; "cheerleader", "mindless drone" (Bindy's siggie) and generally painting them as brainless, ass-kissing sycophants.....is not a course of behavior likely to generate hugs and kisses in return.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't want to derail further... but I'm going to just for a moment. I agree with what Gilly said above (shocker maybe)
What I've noticed, and not just recently but all along, is that any time anyone is actually happy with the game, the development of the game the updates and so on, they get painted into this ridiculous apple polishing picture.

Its simply not the case. Negativity breeds (trust me I'm a pro at this) and if someone comes out guns blazing with a snarky holier than thou, smug attitude assuming their position is the correct one and their though process is the enlightened one, then yes they will have flames shot their way, insults and the like.

I will not paint myself to be innocent in this picture, I goad people. I believe I'm always right except for when I'm wrong, and I don't really throw much passion into my posts as much as I just want to amuse myself, and chances are if I'm being nasty or trolling you will know it.

Very rarely will I ever pretend my motives were anything other than being what they are.

A spade is still a spade.

 

[Bindy]

<blockquote><hr>

TTL

I disagree that the majority of players are in favor of the wipe. I think the players who are against the wipe don't feel comfortable saying so. Anyone who says they don't like the idea is painted as someone who is trying to trash the devs, stand in the way of the game being "saved" -- or, worse, voting for an end to the game.

We are all passionate about this game or we wouldn't be expending energy debating the points.

There are not many posters here who I have not encountered in game. I can't think of any of you that I haven't enjoyed as a fellow player.

Some players have told me they have been treated badly in game because they posted unpopular views in these forums. I've never had that happen. Back stabbing is the sum of my experience, but I don't care about my little sim's back *shrugs* However, I think what happens here on Stratics should stay here on Stratics.

We cannot settle the issue over whether the money wipe is good or bad, positive or negative. In the long run, only time will tell. I'll respect your right to speak out in favor of it, and extend me the same courtesy, please. I'd suggest we lay bets as to how history will prove us, but that would be gambling...

[/ QUOTE ]

Dali you said a mouthful of truth.

Oh, I know for a fact there are MANY people against whats happening to the game. Many of them are afraid to voice their thoughts here and a most of them will have nothing to do with stratics or the wiki simply because of the garbage that is dished out if you do say something against the changes. That IMHO is a major shame that there are people that wont speak up in here simply because they feel they will be attacked for their opinions.


I cant say I blame them any, I tend to agree. I wished that wasnt so but so far I havent seen anything to convince me otherwise. With the one and only exception, the sim move out of TC. And IMO that was done solely to shut the few of us up that had been so vocal about it. Even though those of us that begged for that option took a ton of abuse from others about it.

I will state I have absolutely no intentions what so ever of trying to slow or stop the progress of the changes. Nor do I want to see the game end but I have been accused of doing both in here. (I am using the word "accused" lightly too) If that were the case why would I have even bothered to continue playing this game for 5 yrs if the only thing I wanted was the game to end? Far from it.

I for one wished that the darn merges were done with already so we can get on with our sim lives. We dont bother to earn any cash in TC or the production cities because we'd lose it anyway so why bother. You cant buy crap at any stores because they are all withholding their goods for the merge. All thats left to do is skill or twiddle your thumbs if you feel like doing that all day every day while waiting for the merges to happen.

I want new furniture and new jobs etc. like many of you do. One thing I dont want to see is this game become a SL clone, absolutley not, but Im so afraid thats where we are heading. I know there are a few of you that feel the same way I seen more than a few of you say so.

If the fact that Im unhappy about losing my simoleans that (yes Im going to say it, like it or not) I worked my sims so hard for over the last 5 yrs, is something I feel I have a right to be upset about. Those of you that dont care about your sims money well ok I dont understand why, but ok. Just dont belittle those of us that are upset over it. And yeah yeah if I had the dead horse smiley Id add it here myself.

Ok, continue to be ticked off at me or get your giggles from my post...whatever floats your boats.

 

[Bindy]

<blockquote><hr>

Your agreement is not required, for the truth to remain the truth. But you are free to bury your head in the sand, if it makes you feel better.

Calling posters who do not agree with your point of view; "cheerleader", "mindless drone" (Bindy's siggie) and generally painting them as brainless, ass-kissing sycophants.....is not a course of behavior likely to generate hugs and kisses in return.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nor will your constant harassing of those that dont agree with your every word.

My siggie was not written calling others "mindless drones" it simply states "Not a mindless drone" meaning I am not one, I have opinions and I am capable of expressing them. There is a difference, but since you are taking it as such I will remove it. I wouldnt want people to misunderstand my meaning. That happens enough in here as it is.

 

[imported_Gracie Nito]

Keep in mind there are many people that are happy with the game and the direction it is headed that have never posted anywhere

. They read and keep up with everything that is going on and have nothing to add because they are happy with what they read.

 

[Bindy]

<blockquote><hr>

Keep in mind there are many people that are happy with the game and the direction it is headed that have never posted anywhere

. They read and keep up with everything that is going on and have nothing to add because they are happy with what they read.

[/ QUOTE ]

Im sure there are, but honestly I've never had anyone say to me they are happy with the game so they never bother to post anywhere. Ive only ran into the ones that arent happy and wont step foot in here or the wiki.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>


Oh, I know for a fact there are MANY people against whats happening to the game. Many of them are afraid to voice their thoughts here and a most of them will have nothing to do with stratics or the wiki simply because of the garbage that is dished out if you do say something against the changes. T

[/ QUOTE ]

Its not the witness protection program or election day in Iraq, its a gaming forum. Nobody will be shot for having an opinion, at the worst some faceless nameless so and so will say "you're wrong"

if they are too afraid to voice their opinions because they are afraid that others may disagree with it... then that is their own problem, their own fault and their own insecurity.

There are also Polls here that are anonymous. They did not vote their either.

And being afraid to go to the Wiki is just simply silly.

No sorry, that doesn't jibe to me. I don't feel bad for the voiceless masses out there. Nor do I feel that anyone who does post on this board in their name was voted in by them.

 

[Roger Wilco]

"Fear" is the wrong word. I think it's more along the line of being "pointless" to do so. They know that they're just going to get shouted down by fanboi's falling all over themselves to one up each other, so why bother?

If you have a strong stomach you can go to the wiki or the Blog and watch them cheerlead. You kind of get both a queasy feeling at their sickening displays, but also a certain amount of pity for them at the same time. Normal players take a look at the blithering drivel on those sites and walk away. They know their opinion isn't welcome unless it's part of the droning chorus praising anything and everything uttered by one of their god's.

The TSO cheerleader/fanboi's are a big part of the reason why EA made so many silly/unpopular changes to the game for the first two or three years. The dev's and rep's fell into the common habit of mostly listening to the same people who they knew would reinforce their own ideas and beliefs. The old crew learned this the hard way by implementing some incredibly stupid ideas and eventually pretty much went silent. I'm hoping the new crew wises up that they're doing the same thing, but I doubt it.

 

[Bindy]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>


Oh, I know for a fact there are MANY people against whats happening to the game. Many of them are afraid to voice their thoughts here and a most of them will have nothing to do with stratics or the wiki simply because of the garbage that is dished out if you do say something against the changes. T

[/ QUOTE ]

Its not the witness protection program or election day in Iraq, its a gaming forum. Nobody will be shot for having an opinion, at the worst some faceless nameless so and so will say "you're wrong"

if they are too afraid to voice their opinions because they are afraid that others may disagree with it... then that is their own problem, their own fault and their own insecurity.

There are also Polls here that are anonymous. They did not vote their either.

And being afraid to go to the Wiki is just simply silly.

No sorry, that doesn't jibe to me. I don't feel bad for the voiceless masses out there. Nor do I feel that anyone who does post on this board in their name was voted in by them.

[/ QUOTE ]

If it were as simple as someone saying you're wrong then I would agree with you, but its not and you should know that. "Some" People dont want to deal with the foolish arguements and endless ranting that goes on in here or in the wiki. Its just a lot worse here than it is in the wiki is all. Such as when someone says something that someone else doesnt like or doesnt understand. That's why.

It doesnt have to jibe to you as you put it. Their reasons are their own, which I understand. I for one didnt bother chit chatting on here at all until all of the changes started simply because I find a lot of people in here to be nasty and judgemental towards others, Or everything is a big joke. I had no reason to want to subject myself to that sort of situtation and have to deal with exactly what I have been dealing with ever since I first spoke my thoughts about the game.

Actually, I feel those people are a lot smarter than I am at this point. Its not being insecure its being smart and staying away from all of the foolishness in here.

 

[Bindy]

<blockquote><hr>

"Fear" is the wrong word. I think it's more along the line of being "pointless" to do so. They know that they're just going to get shouted down by fanboi's falling all over themselves to one up each other, so why bother?

If you have a strong stomach you can go to the wiki or the Blog and watch them cheerlead. You kind of get both a queasy feeling at their sickening displays, but also a certain amount of pity for them at the same time. Normal players take a look at the blithering drivel on those sites and walk away. They know their opinion isn't welcome unless it's part of the droning chorus praising anything and everything uttered by one of their god's.

The TSO cheerleader/fanboi's are a big part of the reason why EA made so many silly/unpopular changes to the game for the first two or three years. The dev's and rep's fell into the common habit of mostly listening to the same people who they knew would reinforce their own ideas and beliefs. The old crew learned this the hard way by implementing some incredibly stupid ideas and eventually pretty much went silent. I'm hoping the new crew wises up that they're doing the same thing, but I doubt it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you Roger. Your explaination was far more to the point than mine was. I agree.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

"Fear" is the wrong word. I think it's more along the line of being "pointless" to do so. They know that they're just going to get shouted down by fanboi's falling all over themselves to one up each other, so why bother?

If you have a strong stomach you can go to the wiki or the Blog and watch them cheerlead. You kind of get both a queasy feeling at their sickening displays, but also a certain amount of pity for them at the same time. Normal players take a look at the blithering drivel on those sites and walk away. They know their opinion isn't welcome unless it's part of the droning chorus praising anything and everything uttered by one of their god's.

The TSO cheerleader/fanboi's are a big part of the reason why EA made so many silly/unpopular changes to the game for the first two or three years. The dev's and rep's fell into the common habit of mostly listening to the same people who they knew would reinforce their own ideas and beliefs. The old crew learned this the hard way by implementing some incredibly stupid ideas and eventually pretty much went silent. I'm hoping the new crew wises up that they're doing the same thing, but I doubt it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, so you are one of "them"
Then... this discussion is basically pointless.

But I'll just say as I've said probably 1000 other times... I think its silly for those who have such a vast distaste for people who enjoy a game.

The ones who make me giggle though are those who pay for the game and hate it.

Oy

 

[imported_Dali Dalinza]

<blockquote><hr>

...The dev's and rep's fell into the common habit of mostly listening to the same people who they knew would reinforce their own ideas and beliefs...

[/ QUOTE ]

A common mistake, in all walks. Looking in the mirror does not allow you to see the parts of you below your view or behind you. And, your friends are no help -- they are looking in the same mirror. Thus have many walked boldly forward with flies wide open, wet stains on the back of their trousers, and their hair a mess in back.

 

[Keep It Real]

<blockquote><hr>

"Fear" is the wrong word. I think it's more along the line of being "pointless" to do so. They know that they're just going to get shouted down by fanboi's falling all over themselves to one up each other, so why bother?

If you have a strong stomach you can go to the wiki or the Blog and watch them cheerlead. You kind of get both a queasy feeling at their sickening displays, but also a certain amount of pity for them at the same time. Normal players take a look at the blithering drivel on those sites and walk away. They know their opinion isn't welcome unless it's part of the droning chorus praising anything and everything uttered by one of their god's.

The TSO cheerleader/fanboi's are a big part of the reason why EA made so many silly/unpopular changes to the game for the first two or three years. The dev's and rep's fell into the common habit of mostly listening to the same people who they knew would reinforce their own ideas and beliefs. The old crew learned this the hard way by implementing some incredibly stupid ideas and eventually pretty much went silent. I'm hoping the new crew wises up that they're doing the same thing, but I doubt it.

[/ QUOTE ]

BRAVO, well said!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[vapd3317]

<blockquote><hr>

The ones who make me giggle though are those who pay for the game and hate it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well actually,...since I don't play in TC or TC3,...I don't pay for a game I hate. I pay for the old TSO that I enjoyed. Its kind of like being a Vikings fan in Packer territory. Call it "Hometown Loyalty"...or "rebellious".

But I gotta question this:
<blockquote><hr>

Oh, so you are one of "them"
Then... this discussion is basically pointless.

But I'll just say as I've said probably 1000 other times... I think its silly for those who have such a vast distaste for people who enjoy a game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seems like a bit of a "distasteful" comment towards those of us who don't support changing a game we enjoy.

 

[Keep It Real]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

The ones who make me giggle though are those who pay for the game and hate it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well actually,...since I don't play in TC or TC3,...I don't pay for a game I hate. I pay for the old TSO that I enjoyed. Its kind of like being a Vikings fan in Packer territory. Call it "Hometown Loyalty"...or "rebellious".

But I gotta question this:
<blockquote><hr>

Oh, so you are one of "them"
Then... this discussion is basically pointless.

But I'll just say as I've said probably 1000 other times... I think its silly for those who have such a vast distaste for people who enjoy a game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seems like a bit of a "distasteful" comment towards those of us who don't support changing a game we enjoy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I saw that and thought the same thing but this has been said here recently:

"A spade is still a spade".

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

The ones who make me giggle though are those who pay for the game and hate it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well actually,...since I don't play in TC or TC3,...I don't pay for a game I hate. I pay for the old TSO that I enjoyed. Its kind of like being a Vikings fan in Packer territory. Call it "Hometown Loyalty"...or "rebellious".

But I gotta question this:
<blockquote><hr>

Oh, so you are one of "them"
Then... this discussion is basically pointless.

But I'll just say as I've said probably 1000 other times... I think its silly for those who have such a vast distaste for people who enjoy a game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seems like a bit of a "distasteful" comment towards those of us who don't support changing a game we enjoy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't question it...
i said earlier
<blockquote><hr>

I will not paint myself to be innocent in this picture, I goad people. I believe I'm always right except for when I'm wrong, and I don't really throw much passion into my posts as much as I just want to amuse myself, and chances are if I'm being nasty or trolling you will know it.

Very rarely will I ever pretend my motives were anything other than being what they are.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is exactly what it is meant to be.
The difference here is and I'll put this as clearly as I can... this is a game.
It's not a way of life (although many, myself included, believed it to be once) or something that is life changing. Most normal people could stand to use a bit of change here and there. Most normal people do not prefer to play the same game over and over and over and over again. If we did we'd all be playing candyland still.

Vapd, the game you love was going to be closed. It's gone. It's done. No matter what it's over. It's not the "cheerleaders" fault. The cheerleaders didn't like the way the game was, it got lame, it got boring it got....

(On a side note, that smiley is from studly @ dot calm... i know its become very very popular here. )

So really i'd like to know, is you being able to play your game. "You" being the minority more important than someone else being able to play theirs. Is it fair to the majority that the game is lost all together b/c the minority says "no fair I am taking my dollies and going home?"

For over a year I read these forums and watched people all but beg (no actually they begged too) and threaten and scream for new updates. For change. For city merges b/c the cities were dead. Every single thing I have seen implemented or planned to be implemented is the same things I have seen discussed and asked for over and over and over again on these very forums.

Now they are happening. I have seen some people who were completely fed up with EA (excuse me if I throw in your name Dutch America and Carrie as you both come to mind) and made no effort to hide the fact that they were displeased, turn around and actually support the changes. There are many more of course but it's moot.

The bottom line is what EA is changing "we" the collective "we" have asked for. If you were not active during that point, or if you were the minority, that is I suppose unfortunate. But that is the way the world works.

You have two options (well immediate options)
1) you can quit.
2) you can suggest constructively things you would like to be kept.

If those suggestions are within the majority and feasible EA will pass them through. If they are not, they will drop them.

"You" the general you, can intimate all you want that I am a nasty, obnoxious, or downright rude person. Many will agree, even those who call me a friend.

I found that wasting my time being nice (and lord once upon a time on this very forum I was) was exactly that. Wasting time. There is no talking to some people.

I could sugar coat it and say "Well all of you were very dedicated players for the past 5 years and that should be recognized"

But guess what, nobody is going to throw any of us who held our accounts this long a parade.

EA will read the suggestions... pick the ones that are possible and popular and make them happen.

It's not because the suggestions are by the dev ego strokers. It's because the suggestions are made by people who clearly and concisely write up their wiki's for everyone to contribute.

Not to rant like a child who didn't get the dolly they wanted.

To me thats what many of the general "you" look like.

MY opinion shouldn't matter to you. It's just that. Mine. And I'm just a girl on the other side of the monitor bluntly disagreeing with you.

The fact that I'm probably right just makes it sting a little bit more.

 

[imported_corpatortis]

<blockquote><hr>

The fact that I'm probably right just makes it sting a little bit more.

[/ QUOTE ]

I remember when people said they would eat [insert inedible object] if TSO saw updates. I remember when they said they would eat [insert two inedible objects] if the updates were based on the community's wants. I remember when the Wiki and E-Blog were set up SOLELY for EA to see what the players wanted. I remember the first update in over a year (possibly more) that was not only a step to reviving the game, but a step that the majority asked for.

I remember saying that EA was probably not going to do anything about the dying TSO no matter how many "UPDATETHISGAMENOW!!!11!" threads were made.

I was wrong about that.

I also remember a time in school, I don't recall which grade, where I learned that you can not please everybody.. and those not pleased will shout the loudest. Why do they shout even though the choice has been made, I wondered. The answer was and always will be : they have nothing better to do.

I do have sympathy for those who don't want changes. My homes, items and even the cash I fairly earned mean a lot to me. But majority rules.

So now let me say a phrase that we all have heard far too many times. It's relevance towards things in the online world is undying. "Take a screenshot, it'll last longer".