M
MandiK
Guest
It all sounds super cool to me, lol.
Im excited about seeing it all happen!
Im excited about seeing it all happen!
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Discussion about new ideas for economy
- Thread starter Luc
- Start date
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- Status
S
Sean Kendrick
Guest
This has me VERY excited. I'm thinking about coming back when the new city comes up.
K
krazykara
Guest
The idea of taking out the catalog I think will be a bad idea.
Stores are not always open for one. I don't know about you but I really don't care to wait for one to open so I can furnish my home the way I want. Also, have to think not all new characters will have the money to pay for some of the higher priced items. I keep seeing the trend we are having now in majority of the cities, rares, high priced crafted items and clothes. Very few stores actually carry items to furnish homes. I see that and think the same kind of thing will happen if the catalog is taken out. Some store owners will take advantage of that and not care that not all characters have a lot of money to spend. If any thing keep the catalog for the lower priced, or starter, items for new characters who are building a home and don't have the money to buy the higher priced items.
Stores are not always open for one. I don't know about you but I really don't care to wait for one to open so I can furnish my home the way I want. Also, have to think not all new characters will have the money to pay for some of the higher priced items. I keep seeing the trend we are having now in majority of the cities, rares, high priced crafted items and clothes. Very few stores actually carry items to furnish homes. I see that and think the same kind of thing will happen if the catalog is taken out. Some store owners will take advantage of that and not care that not all characters have a lot of money to spend. If any thing keep the catalog for the lower priced, or starter, items for new characters who are building a home and don't have the money to buy the higher priced items.
N
NightFlyer
Guest
What she said... and add...
Or the more unusual, rarely seen items.
If you can find household things you only find the same old stuff in every store. I can never find the odd things I like as it is now.
Imagine if you have to depend on a store stocking these?
No thank you.
Or the more unusual, rarely seen items.
If you can find household things you only find the same old stuff in every store. I can never find the odd things I like as it is now.
Imagine if you have to depend on a store stocking these?
No thank you.
I
imported_Gracie Nito
Guest
I don't play in other cities but I have run a store since the beginning of time. My store, with the help of roomies, has always stocked every kitchen appliance as well as 3 kinds of toilets and showers. We have been able to stock enough things in just about every category that even if it is not on the floor we can offer some kind of discount on other items. The only thing you will not get a discount on in my store is decor items and pets. There are other stores in town that do offer these items.
Are you saying I"m the only store owner in the whole game that actually cares about servicing the community and helping others find what they need at a low cost? I find this hard to believe.
Stores have only become obsolete in the last year or two because fewer people use stores. When they move to a city they take all of their belongins with them. Many people have so much money they don't bother to shop and just pay full retail for anything they need using the catalog. Stores are currently hardly worth working for because it takes so long to sell basic items.
When the catalog is gone, there will be more demand for more stores and more people will find it worthwhile to own,operate, or work for a store. If dynamic pricing and upgradeable objects become a part of the new world then stores will be even busier and fun.
In fact, with the deletion of the catalog even the newbie players that buy things from catalog before they even know about stores will be the new customers of stores and stores will need to cater to their needs.
Are you saying I"m the only store owner in the whole game that actually cares about servicing the community and helping others find what they need at a low cost? I find this hard to believe.
Stores have only become obsolete in the last year or two because fewer people use stores. When they move to a city they take all of their belongins with them. Many people have so much money they don't bother to shop and just pay full retail for anything they need using the catalog. Stores are currently hardly worth working for because it takes so long to sell basic items.
When the catalog is gone, there will be more demand for more stores and more people will find it worthwhile to own,operate, or work for a store. If dynamic pricing and upgradeable objects become a part of the new world then stores will be even busier and fun.
In fact, with the deletion of the catalog even the newbie players that buy things from catalog before they even know about stores will be the new customers of stores and stores will need to cater to their needs.
K
krazykara
Guest
I don't get where you get this statement, "Are you saying I"m the only store owner in the whole game that actually cares about servicing the community and helping others find what they need at a low cost?"I was generalizing.
I have run stores and they have been in the top 10. I mostly sell catalog items. Believe it or not there is still a demand for this type of store. Not every one has a lot of money to burn and I do still see some new characters in the game.
One of the problems I see with taking out the catalog and relying on the stores will most likely be down the road once sims are established in the new city. They will have higher priced items. New sims will come along who can't afford them and want them. So, what do you think they will do? Support another problem, bots. The sad thing is some of the newer players rely on this because they want things now and not really want to work for it.
I have run stores and they have been in the top 10. I mostly sell catalog items. Believe it or not there is still a demand for this type of store. Not every one has a lot of money to burn and I do still see some new characters in the game.
One of the problems I see with taking out the catalog and relying on the stores will most likely be down the road once sims are established in the new city. They will have higher priced items. New sims will come along who can't afford them and want them. So, what do you think they will do? Support another problem, bots. The sad thing is some of the newer players rely on this because they want things now and not really want to work for it.
I
imported_Gracie Nito
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
Support another problem, bots<blockquote><hr>
Ok. I'll wholeheartedly agree with you on this one. Unless new features are introduced to drain the economy of simoleans caused by botters or stricter ways of getting rid of these are put into place then we can talk about any feature of game and it will be useless because the economy will eventually lead us back to where we are today.
Support another problem, bots<blockquote><hr>
Ok. I'll wholeheartedly agree with you on this one. Unless new features are introduced to drain the economy of simoleans caused by botters or stricter ways of getting rid of these are put into place then we can talk about any feature of game and it will be useless because the economy will eventually lead us back to where we are today.
G
Guest
Guest
The problem is not whether there will be good storekeepers like you and your roomies, Gracie, but whether there will be any stores good or bad available when we need them.
Just as a test, I went in and did a quick head count in AV,
BF and TC
AV....out of a possible 100 listed stores, 12% were open, 88% were closed.
BF....out of a possible 100 listed stores, 23% were open, 77% were closed.
TC....out of a possible 100 listed stores, 0 were open, 100% were closed.
This is in the middle of the day in the western part of the country. It is even worse during my regular playing times.....the middle of the night.
It is simply impossible, to make available a full range of product, 24/7.....even by the most dedicated shops.
If not the catalog, then an NPC run warehouse or catalog outlet....just something for people to fall back on, when stores are not available or have inadequate merchandise (pet pulls when you need lights, etc.).
Just as a test, I went in and did a quick head count in AV,
BF and TC
AV....out of a possible 100 listed stores, 12% were open, 88% were closed.
BF....out of a possible 100 listed stores, 23% were open, 77% were closed.
TC....out of a possible 100 listed stores, 0 were open, 100% were closed.
This is in the middle of the day in the western part of the country. It is even worse during my regular playing times.....the middle of the night.
It is simply impossible, to make available a full range of product, 24/7.....even by the most dedicated shops.
If not the catalog, then an NPC run warehouse or catalog outlet....just something for people to fall back on, when stores are not available or have inadequate merchandise (pet pulls when you need lights, etc.).
G
Guest
Guest
We have to take into account the fact that with the loss of the catalog we gain custom content. Stores should be open alot more if there are always new and interesting things to sell. Or we could conceiveably make our own items for use until stores are open. The cattelog and stores isnt really working as it stands right now. There isnt anything in the store we cant get in the cattelog except rares, crafted items and clothes, consequently most stores seem to specialize in the rare/craft trade. It's often difficult to find even the most basic items in stores. I think that custom content will change the whole face of TSO most particularly stores.
G
Guest
Guest
Currently, the catalog fills a market (meets a demand). I believe if the catalog were removed today, someone would realize there was a need to fill and open a store.
It will be very much like the early days of Dragon's Cove when people lined up in stores waiting their turn for service. Even people who play at odd hours will be more likely to get into the store business if every other sim online with them is dependent upon a store.
It will be very much like the early days of Dragon's Cove when people lined up in stores waiting their turn for service. Even people who play at odd hours will be more likely to get into the store business if every other sim online with them is dependent upon a store.
I
imported_Gracie Nito
Guest
I've seen the life of the story category from the first day it was available until today. Stores were a viable category for others to be interested in participating in the beginning because we actually had customers. And you could find many stores online. Taking an account of what stores we have today is not an accurate picture of what you will find in the new city.
The first decline in store sales came with the introduction of the NPC repairman. Home owners no longer bought new items to replace broken items because it became cheaper just to repair them over and over again. However, there was always an influx of new sims to the city that needed to set up their new houses. Once the sim move feature was introduced, players no longer had to create new sims in cities or begin again. They just took all of their old belongings with them and continued to have them repaired. As the decline of customer demand lowered, so did the interest of those wanting to run a store.
Even before the exploit there were more stores online that specialized in crafted or rare items. These stores are few and far between now because no one wants to sell anything for the devalued simolean.
I also believe that with dynamic pricing, custom content, and possible upgradeable objects, the stimulation of being a store keeper will be rivived and you might be surprised how many you find open at any given time of day.
The first decline in store sales came with the introduction of the NPC repairman. Home owners no longer bought new items to replace broken items because it became cheaper just to repair them over and over again. However, there was always an influx of new sims to the city that needed to set up their new houses. Once the sim move feature was introduced, players no longer had to create new sims in cities or begin again. They just took all of their old belongings with them and continued to have them repaired. As the decline of customer demand lowered, so did the interest of those wanting to run a store.
Even before the exploit there were more stores online that specialized in crafted or rare items. These stores are few and far between now because no one wants to sell anything for the devalued simolean.
I also believe that with dynamic pricing, custom content, and possible upgradeable objects, the stimulation of being a store keeper will be rivived and you might be surprised how many you find open at any given time of day.
G
Guest
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
Even people who play at odd hours will be more likely to get into the store business if every other sim online with them is dependent upon a store.
[/ QUOTE ]
Two things bother me about this.....price gouging and the AFK store owner epidemic. The last time I tried to use a store I had to go to 10 different stores to find what I wanted and literally ended up reporting 7 out of the 10 owners/roommates online at the time keeping the store open because it was blatantly obvious they were overriding the timeout feature to keep their store open under the guise of 'providing a service' to those sims who played at the odd hours of the night. I worry that taking away a sim's right to not frequent those places and use the catalog will just encourage those AFKers to be more plentiful, not less.
As for price gouging, it is my fear that if there is no catalog to 'govern the cap' on prices that we'll see prices go up up up like they are for rares because of supply and demand, particularly since they KNOW the money is there for people to pay thanks for the exploit, thus encouraging those who did not use the exploit to have to get their hands on massive amounts of cash by another illicit means, namely botting or partaking of the botters spoils.
Even people who play at odd hours will be more likely to get into the store business if every other sim online with them is dependent upon a store.
[/ QUOTE ]
Two things bother me about this.....price gouging and the AFK store owner epidemic. The last time I tried to use a store I had to go to 10 different stores to find what I wanted and literally ended up reporting 7 out of the 10 owners/roommates online at the time keeping the store open because it was blatantly obvious they were overriding the timeout feature to keep their store open under the guise of 'providing a service' to those sims who played at the odd hours of the night. I worry that taking away a sim's right to not frequent those places and use the catalog will just encourage those AFKers to be more plentiful, not less.
As for price gouging, it is my fear that if there is no catalog to 'govern the cap' on prices that we'll see prices go up up up like they are for rares because of supply and demand, particularly since they KNOW the money is there for people to pay thanks for the exploit, thus encouraging those who did not use the exploit to have to get their hands on massive amounts of cash by another illicit means, namely botting or partaking of the botters spoils.
G
Guest
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
particularly since they KNOW the money is there for people to pay thanks for the exploit, thus encouraging those who did not use the exploit to have to get their hands on massive amounts of cash by another illicit means, namely botting or partaking of the botters spoils.
[/ QUOTE ]
There was no exploit in a city that hasn't been developed yet.
particularly since they KNOW the money is there for people to pay thanks for the exploit, thus encouraging those who did not use the exploit to have to get their hands on massive amounts of cash by another illicit means, namely botting or partaking of the botters spoils.
[/ QUOTE ]
There was no exploit in a city that hasn't been developed yet.
G
Guest
Guest
If the removal of the catalog is limited to this 'new city' then yes you're correct *smacks forehead*
. Even without exploit money though I worry about prices spinning out of control without some kind of cap being set. As it is now the catalog serves as that cap for everything but rare items, because a sim figures why should they have to pay something that is marked up 1000% when they could at worst case scenario go to the catalog and buy it at no discount of retail.
G
Guest
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
I worry that taking away a sim's right to not frequent those places and use the catalog will just encourage those AFKers to be more plentiful, not less
[/ QUOTE ]
Luc has talked in his blog about making stores different in a brave new world .... can't remember all that was said now, but I think it was along the lines of them being much more interactive, thereby giving an incentive for store owners to not go afk.
I know its hard but I think its important to try and forget about how we currently play when talking about a new city as if the things being discussed do take place, then it would seem we'll be talking about a different style of gameplay to what we have now.
Polly
I worry that taking away a sim's right to not frequent those places and use the catalog will just encourage those AFKers to be more plentiful, not less
[/ QUOTE ]
Luc has talked in his blog about making stores different in a brave new world .... can't remember all that was said now, but I think it was along the lines of them being much more interactive, thereby giving an incentive for store owners to not go afk.
I know its hard but I think its important to try and forget about how we currently play when talking about a new city as if the things being discussed do take place, then it would seem we'll be talking about a different style of gameplay to what we have now.
Polly
G
Guest
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
I also believe that with dynamic pricing, custom content, and possible upgradeable objects, the stimulation of being a store keeper will be rivived and you might be surprised how many you find open at any given time of day.
[/ QUOTE ]
I completely agree, I would definitely be considering running a store if all those things were to be implemented, unless of course there is more specialisation within categories and if you upgrade or design objects you can't do so on a store lot, then I'd probably want to be a designer and collaborate with a store owner.
Polly
I also believe that with dynamic pricing, custom content, and possible upgradeable objects, the stimulation of being a store keeper will be rivived and you might be surprised how many you find open at any given time of day.
[/ QUOTE ]
I completely agree, I would definitely be considering running a store if all those things were to be implemented, unless of course there is more specialisation within categories and if you upgrade or design objects you can't do so on a store lot, then I'd probably want to be a designer and collaborate with a store owner.
Polly
G
Guest
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
Even without exploit money though I worry about prices spinning out of control without some kind of cap being set. As it is now the catalog serves as that cap for everything but rare items, because a sim figures why should they have to pay something that is marked up 1000% when they could at worst case scenario go to the catalog and buy it at no discount of retail.
[/ QUOTE ]
Instead, most sims figure they should get it for 50% of the catalog price <u>or less!!</u>
I realize it has probably been a long while since you played, but for every sim that thinks they can make 5 simoleans off an object, there is another one who thinks they can make a living off a 4 simolean markup. Take clothing as an example. Clothing is not available in the catalog, only from stores. Yet without that "cap" prices never spun out of control. The most I've seen the original clothing racks marked up was 1,000 simoleans. That's 1,000 on a 6,000 or 7,000 item. That is about 16%, no where near your doomsday 1,000%. Nowadays it would be hard to find a 500 simolean markup. Even in the crafted create-a-sim racks, I've never seen more than a 50% markup. Some even sell for cost.
I do not think the catalog will holding prices down in Luc's new city - basic laws of economics will.
Even without exploit money though I worry about prices spinning out of control without some kind of cap being set. As it is now the catalog serves as that cap for everything but rare items, because a sim figures why should they have to pay something that is marked up 1000% when they could at worst case scenario go to the catalog and buy it at no discount of retail.
[/ QUOTE ]
Instead, most sims figure they should get it for 50% of the catalog price <u>or less!!</u>
I realize it has probably been a long while since you played, but for every sim that thinks they can make 5 simoleans off an object, there is another one who thinks they can make a living off a 4 simolean markup. Take clothing as an example. Clothing is not available in the catalog, only from stores. Yet without that "cap" prices never spun out of control. The most I've seen the original clothing racks marked up was 1,000 simoleans. That's 1,000 on a 6,000 or 7,000 item. That is about 16%, no where near your doomsday 1,000%. Nowadays it would be hard to find a 500 simolean markup. Even in the crafted create-a-sim racks, I've never seen more than a 50% markup. Some even sell for cost.
I do not think the catalog will holding prices down in Luc's new city - basic laws of economics will.
I
imported_Hile
Guest
They should just allow store operators to keep their stores open in AFK status. In other games, like EQ, you can just place your character in the bazaar and go into vendor mode and walk away from the PC. This way you don't run into the problem of finding no stores open and store owners can find a life away from the PC.
Anyway this is something for ONE city. We'll just have to see how it goes.
I'm more intrigued by what Luc is doing. If this new city comes I just might be opening a new account again.
Anyway this is something for ONE city. We'll just have to see how it goes.
I'm more intrigued by what Luc is doing. If this new city comes I just might be opening a new account again.
G
Guest
Guest
Todays topic...portals...fascinating!
M
MandiK
Guest
VERY fascinating. I'm completely intrigued by all this. I cannot wait to explore this new city
I
imported_DutchAmerica
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
They should just allow store operators to keep their stores open in AFK status. In other games, like EQ, you can just place your character in the bazaar and go into vendor mode and walk away from the PC. This way you don't run into the problem of finding no stores open and store owners can find a life away from the PC.
Anyway this is something for ONE city. We'll just have to see how it goes.
I'm more intrigued by what Luc is doing. If this new city comes I just might be opening a new account again.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think stores should definitely be an exception to the rule for afking. There can be nothing more boring than running a store with such little profit.
They should just allow store operators to keep their stores open in AFK status. In other games, like EQ, you can just place your character in the bazaar and go into vendor mode and walk away from the PC. This way you don't run into the problem of finding no stores open and store owners can find a life away from the PC.
Anyway this is something for ONE city. We'll just have to see how it goes.
I'm more intrigued by what Luc is doing. If this new city comes I just might be opening a new account again.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think stores should definitely be an exception to the rule for afking. There can be nothing more boring than running a store with such little profit.
G
Guest
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
They should just allow store operators to keep their stores open in AFK status. In other games, like EQ, you can just place your character in the bazaar and go into vendor mode and walk away from the PC. This way you don't run into the problem of finding no stores open and store owners can find a life away from the PC.
Anyway this is something for ONE city. We'll just have to see how it goes.
I'm more intrigued by what Luc is doing. If this new city comes I just might be opening a new account again.
[/ QUOTE ]
The only way I can see this happening is if they disable the time-out feature in the new city the way they have in BV. I don't think this would be a very good idea though since the objective is to get stores to be MORE interactive, not less...at least that was the impression I got from reading the blog.
They should just allow store operators to keep their stores open in AFK status. In other games, like EQ, you can just place your character in the bazaar and go into vendor mode and walk away from the PC. This way you don't run into the problem of finding no stores open and store owners can find a life away from the PC.
Anyway this is something for ONE city. We'll just have to see how it goes.
I'm more intrigued by what Luc is doing. If this new city comes I just might be opening a new account again.
[/ QUOTE ]
The only way I can see this happening is if they disable the time-out feature in the new city the way they have in BV. I don't think this would be a very good idea though since the objective is to get stores to be MORE interactive, not less...at least that was the impression I got from reading the blog.
I
imported_DutchAmerica
Guest
Hmm maybe there will be enough places open day/night that we won't have to keep our places open all the time?
Here's the question. For all the planning and creating of the new city?
What are the 'marketing' plans? How is EA going to market this and draw new people into the game?
You could have the best game ever created but if you marketing team sucks...you still lose.
Here's the question. For all the planning and creating of the new city?
What are the 'marketing' plans? How is EA going to market this and draw new people into the game?
You could have the best game ever created but if you marketing team sucks...you still lose.
G
Guest
Guest
A few questions..
- Is it for sure (100%) that we are to be having the CC and the buy catalog is to be removed?
- Is the new city to be totally different than the current ones? (like the permissions, features, limits...)
- Is it to have a new layout?
- Is to be like the normal city view or like SL ?
- Any screenshots soon?
... and please have a good advertising campaign and put it back on the shelfs as to put TSO back on the map.
Cant wait!!
Thnx.
Majdi
- Is it for sure (100%) that we are to be having the CC and the buy catalog is to be removed?
- Is the new city to be totally different than the current ones? (like the permissions, features, limits...)
- Is it to have a new layout?
- Is to be like the normal city view or like SL ?
- Any screenshots soon?
... and please have a good advertising campaign and put it back on the shelfs as to put TSO back on the map.
Cant wait!!
Thnx.
Majdi
I
imported_Gracie Nito
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
Hmm maybe there will be enough places open day/night that we won't have to keep our places open all the time?
Here's the question. For all the planning and creating of the new city?
What are the 'marketing' plans? How is EA going to market this and draw new people into the game?
You could have the best game ever created but if you marketing team sucks...you still lose.
[/ QUOTE ]
I would imagine marketing strategies are far down the line. This is going to be like a new beta test. If they can't sell the new format to this community what is the point of marketing to others?
I hope more people will participate in the testing phase of this new approach to TSO than those that tried betaville for one day and then left the city to come here and gripe and moan. This new city is going to have bugs and alot of fine tuning to be done.
I'm afraid too many people are set in their ways and they really don't want a new TSO. Nor do they want to put forth the effort to create a new world.
However, if this new experiment succeeds then I can see a reason for EA to package and market the new game.
Hmm maybe there will be enough places open day/night that we won't have to keep our places open all the time?
Here's the question. For all the planning and creating of the new city?
What are the 'marketing' plans? How is EA going to market this and draw new people into the game?
You could have the best game ever created but if you marketing team sucks...you still lose.
[/ QUOTE ]
I would imagine marketing strategies are far down the line. This is going to be like a new beta test. If they can't sell the new format to this community what is the point of marketing to others?
I hope more people will participate in the testing phase of this new approach to TSO than those that tried betaville for one day and then left the city to come here and gripe and moan. This new city is going to have bugs and alot of fine tuning to be done.
I'm afraid too many people are set in their ways and they really don't want a new TSO. Nor do they want to put forth the effort to create a new world.
However, if this new experiment succeeds then I can see a reason for EA to package and market the new game.
G
Guest
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
A few questions..
- Is it for sure (100%) that we are to be having the CC and the buy catalog is to be removed?
- Is the new city to be totally different than the current ones? (like the permissions, features, limits...)
- Is it to have a new layout?
- Is to be like the normal city view or like SL ?
- Any screenshots soon?
... and please have a good advertising campaign and put it back on the shelfs as to put TSO back on the map.
Cant wait!!
Thnx.
Majdi
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm afraid that you guys are getting way ahead of the developement curve, with these questions.
At the moment this is all very much in flux. Luc and his small team are still experimenting with new tools and total rebuilds of the basic programing. Even he can not predict when we will see an alpha version of the new city, let alone a beta one.
The original developement for TSO took several years, before it became a beta version, and then even longer before it was released. Everyone at the time and later said that they had "rushed" it and that was why there were problems. Luc seems to be determined to do it right this time, and with the basic game done, it should go faster this time around.
The possiblilities are all tremendously exciting, but that is all they are, at the moment...possibilities.
The team is going to have to workout the process, do the programming, fix the problems as they find them, and there will no doubt, be set backs and changes, along the way. It all takes time, and they are a small team. Getting impatient this early, will only lead to disappointment and bitterness.
The time to talk 'screenshots' and about promoting the *new* version of TSO is after we see if it can be done.
A few questions..
- Is it for sure (100%) that we are to be having the CC and the buy catalog is to be removed?
- Is the new city to be totally different than the current ones? (like the permissions, features, limits...)
- Is it to have a new layout?
- Is to be like the normal city view or like SL ?
- Any screenshots soon?
... and please have a good advertising campaign and put it back on the shelfs as to put TSO back on the map.
Cant wait!!
Thnx.
Majdi
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm afraid that you guys are getting way ahead of the developement curve, with these questions.
At the moment this is all very much in flux. Luc and his small team are still experimenting with new tools and total rebuilds of the basic programing. Even he can not predict when we will see an alpha version of the new city, let alone a beta one.
The original developement for TSO took several years, before it became a beta version, and then even longer before it was released. Everyone at the time and later said that they had "rushed" it and that was why there were problems. Luc seems to be determined to do it right this time, and with the basic game done, it should go faster this time around.
The possiblilities are all tremendously exciting, but that is all they are, at the moment...possibilities.
The team is going to have to workout the process, do the programming, fix the problems as they find them, and there will no doubt, be set backs and changes, along the way. It all takes time, and they are a small team. Getting impatient this early, will only lead to disappointment and bitterness.
The time to talk 'screenshots' and about promoting the *new* version of TSO is after we see if it can be done.
G
Guest
Guest
Yes ofcourse, i do know that it wont be done overnight or in a couple of weeks. However, i think that the major changes are to be done first, get the game tested and then start adding all those new small bits and pieces (new features) as a weekly/couple of weeks update. We will have time to check the current changes, know how to use them, test them ourselves, report any bugs until the next update. (but whatever the team wants
)
As for the screenshots, many games have published its screenshots long before its released. As for TSO, i really dont care about seeing any screenies atm, however, i am hoping to look at any development made
.. but, i can wait lol.
As for the screenshots, many games have published its screenshots long before its released. As for TSO, i really dont care about seeing any screenies atm, however, i am hoping to look at any development made
G
Guest
Guest
Let's say they got the new city done, will it be a upgrade (letting us know there is a upgrade when you log into the game?).
How will we know about the new city, we wouldn't have to buy a new TSO game? If they do that, they best lower the fracken price lol AND let us have unlimited property space (MORE ROOME FOR STUFF) AND have unlimited roomate spots. Instead of 7 (includes the owner) make it oh I don't know 10(again includes the owner) so really its 9 roomies plus you(owner) equals 10.
I'll just wait till they can actually produce the city. Yes other games have given screanies before the game actually came out but I'll just wait like the poster above me said. Wait till the game (city comes out).
I hope its a upgrade(update) when you log into the game and it says click ok to upgrade. With this one, they should implament 4 spots.
See how we have 3 spots, implament another spot so we have 4 sims the first one would be for the testing of the new city (when it comes out)
just hitting reply on it tho
How will we know about the new city, we wouldn't have to buy a new TSO game? If they do that, they best lower the fracken price lol AND let us have unlimited property space (MORE ROOME FOR STUFF) AND have unlimited roomate spots. Instead of 7 (includes the owner) make it oh I don't know 10(again includes the owner) so really its 9 roomies plus you(owner) equals 10.
I'll just wait till they can actually produce the city. Yes other games have given screanies before the game actually came out but I'll just wait like the poster above me said. Wait till the game (city comes out).
I hope its a upgrade(update) when you log into the game and it says click ok to upgrade. With this one, they should implament 4 spots.
See how we have 3 spots, implament another spot so we have 4 sims the first one would be for the testing of the new city (when it comes out)
just hitting reply on it tho
G
Guest
Guest
I do believe as Luc said that they are to ask us to download a new TSO, and this might be the new online sims game posted here earlier
G
Guest
Guest
It may be easier to think of TSO-E as a totally separate game. You'll most likely download it from a site Luc creates (maybe the wiki site he's referred to in previous blog entries). You'll probably sign in with a different username and password than you use for TSO. None of your current sims will be available. None of the current cities will be available. Nothing about your current TSO game will be available when you log in to TSO-E. If you want to play your current sims, you will have to log out and shut down TSO-E, then run TSO and log in there.
The best way to keep informed about this new city (TSO-E) is to keep reading Luc's blog site.
The best way to keep informed about this new city (TSO-E) is to keep reading Luc's blog site.
G
Guest
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
It may be easier to think of TSO-E as a totally separate game. You'll most likely download it from a site Luc creates (maybe the wiki site he's referred to in previous blog entries). You'll probably sign in with a different username and password than you use for TSO. None of your current sims will be available. None of the current cities will be available. Nothing about your current TSO game will be available when you log in to TSO-E. If you want to play your current sims, you will have to log out and shut down TSO-E, then run TSO and log in there.
The best way to keep informed about this new city (TSO-E) is to keep reading Luc's blog site.
[/ QUOTE ]
We be having to pay for this would we?. Thats what I am worring about, if he makes it free then heck yeah,I'll play the new city but if he is gonna charge us then thanks but no thanks!
If we have to pay to play that game then sorry I won't test that city out, unless its free like Second Life WITH NO TIME LIMITATIONS.
Sorry but its great what he is gonna try to do BUT if he is gonna make us all pay to play the new city then I'll stick to TSO and keep my subscription of 10.00.
Sorry yes I am going to go there but it sounds good to be true, he should just talk to the people of Maxis/Mythic and cut a deal. Let him implament the new city into the game, or is the game too jacked up to do it. To risky, I don't think it is, IMO.
Just hitting reply.
It may be easier to think of TSO-E as a totally separate game. You'll most likely download it from a site Luc creates (maybe the wiki site he's referred to in previous blog entries). You'll probably sign in with a different username and password than you use for TSO. None of your current sims will be available. None of the current cities will be available. Nothing about your current TSO game will be available when you log in to TSO-E. If you want to play your current sims, you will have to log out and shut down TSO-E, then run TSO and log in there.
The best way to keep informed about this new city (TSO-E) is to keep reading Luc's blog site.
[/ QUOTE ]
We be having to pay for this would we?. Thats what I am worring about, if he makes it free then heck yeah,I'll play the new city but if he is gonna charge us then thanks but no thanks!
If we have to pay to play that game then sorry I won't test that city out, unless its free like Second Life WITH NO TIME LIMITATIONS.
Sorry but its great what he is gonna try to do BUT if he is gonna make us all pay to play the new city then I'll stick to TSO and keep my subscription of 10.00.
Sorry yes I am going to go there but it sounds good to be true, he should just talk to the people of Maxis/Mythic and cut a deal. Let him implament the new city into the game, or is the game too jacked up to do it. To risky, I don't think it is, IMO.
Just hitting reply.
I
imported_DutchAmerica
Guest
I wonder what will happen with the old cities?
And to those of us who have dedicated a long period of time to the game and have really old sims. Admittedly, we don't really need the trees and the campfires and such.
But age and skill locks are only gotten with time. If I'd have to have to start from absolutely nothing again.
Trusting EA to keep the new city going and keeping it updated? How long will this 'new' city be up and running before EA gets tired of it? If it doesn't work the way they plan, will they just abandon that too? And where does that leave the rest of us? Ea can't even publish 1 simple object to the game that already exists.
Had I known years ago that EA would just abandon us after we have dedicated so much time and effort into TSO, I would never have started the game.
(Bug reports? Fine tuning? Haven't we all been begging EA to address these similar issues? Has EA? Nope. So now all efforts are being put into this new city and just blow off the rest of the people playing the game?)
And to those of us who have dedicated a long period of time to the game and have really old sims. Admittedly, we don't really need the trees and the campfires and such.
But age and skill locks are only gotten with time. If I'd have to have to start from absolutely nothing again.
Trusting EA to keep the new city going and keeping it updated? How long will this 'new' city be up and running before EA gets tired of it? If it doesn't work the way they plan, will they just abandon that too? And where does that leave the rest of us? Ea can't even publish 1 simple object to the game that already exists.
Had I known years ago that EA would just abandon us after we have dedicated so much time and effort into TSO, I would never have started the game.
(Bug reports? Fine tuning? Haven't we all been begging EA to address these similar issues? Has EA? Nope. So now all efforts are being put into this new city and just blow off the rest of the people playing the game?)
G
Guest
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
(Bug reports? Fine tuning? Haven't we all been begging EA to address these similar issues? Has EA? Nope. So now all efforts are being put into this new city and just blow off the rest of the people playing the game?)
[/ QUOTE ]
TSO and TSO-E are 2 separate things. If you want to know where you stand with bug reports, fine tuning, new objects or anything else having to do with TSO, ask EA/Mythic.
<blockquote><hr>
Trusting EA to keep the new city going and keeping it updated? How long will this 'new' city be up and running before EA gets tired of it? If it doesn't work the way they plan, will they just abandon that too? And where does that leave the rest of us?
[/ QUOTE ]
It leaves us exactly where we were when TSO was in the planning stages. I can almost guarantee you that in 2001 and early 2002, no one was worried about TSO ending because it hadn't even begun yet.
If you are so worried about where you will be left if EA gets tired of TSO-E, ask yourself this: where are you now? Will getting a chance to be in on the early stages of development of a new version, experimental version of TSO - one in which you may be able to try out some of the things players have been requesting since TSO was still in Beta (namely, some form of custom content) - will you be any worse off for having that opportunity?
As long as Luc is around (remember who he is and what role he has played in the Sims franchise), TSO is still alive. If he hadn't arrived on the scene almost 2 months ago, no telling where any of us would be today.
And to answer and earlier question, I believe that as with any other game, Alpha and Beta testing of TSO-E will be free.
(Bug reports? Fine tuning? Haven't we all been begging EA to address these similar issues? Has EA? Nope. So now all efforts are being put into this new city and just blow off the rest of the people playing the game?)
[/ QUOTE ]
TSO and TSO-E are 2 separate things. If you want to know where you stand with bug reports, fine tuning, new objects or anything else having to do with TSO, ask EA/Mythic.
<blockquote><hr>
Trusting EA to keep the new city going and keeping it updated? How long will this 'new' city be up and running before EA gets tired of it? If it doesn't work the way they plan, will they just abandon that too? And where does that leave the rest of us?
[/ QUOTE ]
It leaves us exactly where we were when TSO was in the planning stages. I can almost guarantee you that in 2001 and early 2002, no one was worried about TSO ending because it hadn't even begun yet.
If you are so worried about where you will be left if EA gets tired of TSO-E, ask yourself this: where are you now? Will getting a chance to be in on the early stages of development of a new version, experimental version of TSO - one in which you may be able to try out some of the things players have been requesting since TSO was still in Beta (namely, some form of custom content) - will you be any worse off for having that opportunity?
As long as Luc is around (remember who he is and what role he has played in the Sims franchise), TSO is still alive. If he hadn't arrived on the scene almost 2 months ago, no telling where any of us would be today.
And to answer and earlier question, I believe that as with any other game, Alpha and Beta testing of TSO-E will be free.
I
imported_Gracie Nito
Guest
I asked myself these same questions when Luc first showed up. However, I differ on one aspect. When I started beta testing this game in 2002, I never expected it to last this long. When I chose to dedicate myself to my sim and her life, I did so knowing that it was a virtual life that may come to an end someday.
Even with the neglect of the past year and half, I believe this game to be a very fun game to play. I also have faith that there are people at EA that do care about what happens to us. Only recently did we learn that the operations of the game was transferred to EA/Mythic. Why weren't we just shut down then? Because someone cared enough to find a place for us and someone to keep us up and running! I would like to personally thank our 1/2 a developer for his dedication to keep the game running even though there has been little time for new development.
Luc, himself has already stated that the changes to code being made may make it impossible to upgrade existing cities with this version. Now he says "may" because they haven't even produced the new environment yet. Some where down the line, they may still be able to save our cities. Tools and technology has evolved over the past 4 years and TSO is due for an overhaul. When technology in the film industry changed, George Lucas did not go back to the original Star Wars and try to update it with the new existing technology. He used it to continue the saga in a better format.
I was there when Dragon's Cove was introduced and gave it all my effort to succeed. I was there when Betaville was opened and gave it all my effort to succeed. I expect I'll jump head first into TSO-E and give it all my effort to succeed. I have no regrets. From beta test to present, the journey TSO has given me has been well worth it.
I believe in Luc because I discovered the man devoted 2 years of his life re-engineering the offline version of the sims to create TSO before it ever even reached the beta test phase. TSO is a part of this man, just as it is for every player that has dedicated themselves to this game for years. I trust his desire to see it continue and will give him my full support even if it means starting all over.
Even with the neglect of the past year and half, I believe this game to be a very fun game to play. I also have faith that there are people at EA that do care about what happens to us. Only recently did we learn that the operations of the game was transferred to EA/Mythic. Why weren't we just shut down then? Because someone cared enough to find a place for us and someone to keep us up and running! I would like to personally thank our 1/2 a developer for his dedication to keep the game running even though there has been little time for new development.
Luc, himself has already stated that the changes to code being made may make it impossible to upgrade existing cities with this version. Now he says "may" because they haven't even produced the new environment yet. Some where down the line, they may still be able to save our cities. Tools and technology has evolved over the past 4 years and TSO is due for an overhaul. When technology in the film industry changed, George Lucas did not go back to the original Star Wars and try to update it with the new existing technology. He used it to continue the saga in a better format.
I was there when Dragon's Cove was introduced and gave it all my effort to succeed. I was there when Betaville was opened and gave it all my effort to succeed. I expect I'll jump head first into TSO-E and give it all my effort to succeed. I have no regrets. From beta test to present, the journey TSO has given me has been well worth it.
I believe in Luc because I discovered the man devoted 2 years of his life re-engineering the offline version of the sims to create TSO before it ever even reached the beta test phase. TSO is a part of this man, just as it is for every player that has dedicated themselves to this game for years. I trust his desire to see it continue and will give him my full support even if it means starting all over.
I
imported_DutchAmerica
Guest
Friends have kept me hanging on with TSO.
Had it not been for them...I would have been gone a long time ago.
Most of those have long since left but I'm still here. And every day I log into TSO is just another day full of bugs, errors and drama.
Then I come here and all this talk of 'new and improved' and I just can't help but wonder if it's all just smoke and mirrors meant to keep us hanging on for a bit more....
Had it not been for them...I would have been gone a long time ago.
Most of those have long since left but I'm still here. And every day I log into TSO is just another day full of bugs, errors and drama.
Then I come here and all this talk of 'new and improved' and I just can't help but wonder if it's all just smoke and mirrors meant to keep us hanging on for a bit more....
I
imported_Gracie Nito
Guest
To me the future of TSO does not rely on retaining old players but attracting new ones. I've made alot of great friends along the way but I've always been aware that people will move on to something else. The people have been the reason for me to stay this long. Old and new. I still get a kick out of meeting new players every day.
G
Guest
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
Then I come here and all this talk of 'new and improved' and I just can't help but wonder if it's all just smoke and mirrors meant to keep us hanging on for a bit more....
[/ QUOTE ]
Except its not EA/Mythic giving smoke and mirrors - in fact if you go back to one of Sanya's posts, she warned us in no uncertain terms that what Luc is doing is not part of their current plans and may not happen. No smoke and mirrors there - just complete honesty.
It would seem that this is something that Luc and his team are working on quite seperately to EA/Mythic at the moment.
Gracie said this .......
<blockquote><hr>
I believe in Luc because I discovered the man devoted 2 years of his life re-engineering the offline version of the sims to create TSO before it ever even reached the beta test phase. TSO is a part of this man, just as it is for every player that has dedicated themselves to this game for years. I trust his desire to see it continue and will give him my full support even if it means starting all over.
[/ QUOTE ]
.... and I completely agree with her.
He seems to be talking about a new and improved version of TSO (TSO-E) and it sure sounds good to me.
Polly
Then I come here and all this talk of 'new and improved' and I just can't help but wonder if it's all just smoke and mirrors meant to keep us hanging on for a bit more....
[/ QUOTE ]
Except its not EA/Mythic giving smoke and mirrors - in fact if you go back to one of Sanya's posts, she warned us in no uncertain terms that what Luc is doing is not part of their current plans and may not happen. No smoke and mirrors there - just complete honesty.
It would seem that this is something that Luc and his team are working on quite seperately to EA/Mythic at the moment.
Gracie said this .......
<blockquote><hr>
I believe in Luc because I discovered the man devoted 2 years of his life re-engineering the offline version of the sims to create TSO before it ever even reached the beta test phase. TSO is a part of this man, just as it is for every player that has dedicated themselves to this game for years. I trust his desire to see it continue and will give him my full support even if it means starting all over.
[/ QUOTE ]
.... and I completely agree with her.
He seems to be talking about a new and improved version of TSO (TSO-E) and it sure sounds good to me.
Polly
M
MandiK
Guest
It sounds great to me as well. I love TSO and would love to be any part if trying out a whole different 'TSO-E'. I'm always eager to see what is going to happen next!
I
imported_DutchAmerica
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
It sounds great to me as well. I love TSO and would love to be any part if trying out a whole different 'TSO-E'. I'm always eager to see what is going to happen next!
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind being part of it too.
I'm just being a little conservative with excitment with the new city for the time being.
I'm thinking of the little pixelated people that have been such a part of my life for so long. I spent a lot of time and effort and to be honest....I thought that the Sims had so much material in the computer based game that there would probably be enough items and updates to keep the game going for a long time. I won't be dumb enough to 'assume' anything with TSO again.
There are other online games that have lasted just as long as TSO and have merited major game updates twice a year. They've planned out things they are going to add and added them. They've taken suggestions from players...and added them.
I would hate to see all this 'speculation' about a new city divert everyone's attention from the fact that EA has been pretty much a deadbeat with TSO and that unless EA/Mythic or whoever is willing to make a true commitment, then we'll just be right back here in a year or two once more wondering about the fate of our beloved game.
If we are going to committ more of our time and money, then EA/Mythic needs to state their intentions and also tell us what exactly their future plans for TSO is so that we may all decide if we want to stay along for the ride or not.
It sounds great to me as well. I love TSO and would love to be any part if trying out a whole different 'TSO-E'. I'm always eager to see what is going to happen next!
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind being part of it too.
I'm just being a little conservative with excitment with the new city for the time being.
I'm thinking of the little pixelated people that have been such a part of my life for so long. I spent a lot of time and effort and to be honest....I thought that the Sims had so much material in the computer based game that there would probably be enough items and updates to keep the game going for a long time. I won't be dumb enough to 'assume' anything with TSO again.
There are other online games that have lasted just as long as TSO and have merited major game updates twice a year. They've planned out things they are going to add and added them. They've taken suggestions from players...and added them.
I would hate to see all this 'speculation' about a new city divert everyone's attention from the fact that EA has been pretty much a deadbeat with TSO and that unless EA/Mythic or whoever is willing to make a true commitment, then we'll just be right back here in a year or two once more wondering about the fate of our beloved game.
If we are going to committ more of our time and money, then EA/Mythic needs to state their intentions and also tell us what exactly their future plans for TSO is so that we may all decide if we want to stay along for the ride or not.
I
imported_Gracie Nito
Guest
I completely understand where you are coming from Dutch. We don't know what the catalyst was that drove them to stop development and updates. It is all speculation as to why we have been left on our own for so long. Having been here the whole time, I've seen many things tried and failed. Many things talked about but never implemented. I choose to believe that the current format or code of TSO was very limited in what they wanted to accomplish and we were put on the back burner until time and money could be spent repairing that which has been lacking all along. This is a crossroads and a path must be chosen. To live with the limits the code offers today or to re-create a better world.
Some of the online games of the past have just continued to work within the confines of their old code and updated. And yes, it could probably be done with TSO too. But don't we want more?
Some of the online games of the past have just continued to work within the confines of their old code and updated. And yes, it could probably be done with TSO too. But don't we want more?
G
Guest
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
I would hate to see all this 'speculation' about a new city divert everyone's attention from the fact that EA has been pretty much a deadbeat with TSO and that unless EA/Mythic or whoever is willing to make a true commitment, then we'll just be right back here in a year or two once more wondering about the fate of our beloved game.
[/ QUOTE ] We are reminded of that every time we log in. Or decide not to.
<blockquote><hr>
If we are going to committ more of our time and money, then EA/Mythic needs to state their intentions and also tell us what exactly their future plans for TSO is so that we may all decide if we want to stay along for the ride or not.
[/ QUOTE ]I believe Sanya has already stated EA/Mythic's position quite frankly. Quite.
I would hate to see all this 'speculation' about a new city divert everyone's attention from the fact that EA has been pretty much a deadbeat with TSO and that unless EA/Mythic or whoever is willing to make a true commitment, then we'll just be right back here in a year or two once more wondering about the fate of our beloved game.
[/ QUOTE ] We are reminded of that every time we log in. Or decide not to.
<blockquote><hr>
If we are going to committ more of our time and money, then EA/Mythic needs to state their intentions and also tell us what exactly their future plans for TSO is so that we may all decide if we want to stay along for the ride or not.
[/ QUOTE ]I believe Sanya has already stated EA/Mythic's position quite frankly. Quite.
G
Guest
Guest
Hope springs eternal or so they say. I prefer to hope the Luc has a brand new shiny future in the form of TSO-E in store for us.
I've been here since 2002 I also played the offline Sims and Sim City prior to TSO. I havent played the offline games since I started TSO it no longer interests me. Some people stopped playing TSO when TS2 came out. I never played TS2 and have no desire to, for me its all about the people I play with online. I can imagine that my 4 year old sims will take a backseat to the all new version TSO-E. Things have to evolve or they get stagnant.
I believe that Luc has a special place in his heart for TSO. I believe he will take us in an all new direction to places we only dreamed about in our little virtual world. I believe this for the same reasons Gracie stated above. I may be hoping all this for nothing, but its a risk my heart is willing to take, because I love TSO and the experiences and friends it brought me have been invaluable.
I doubt we will have to pay to beta test. I've not heard of any game that did charge for beta testing. I do expect to have to pay for the live game.
I seriously doubt that its possible to bring all these new things to the current TSO. They are rewriting all the code using new technology. Will the current game close in favor of the new? Maybe, but if so its just the evolution of our current world into a brave new one. Sure that means starting my sims over, but I'm willing to deal with that if it brings back the excitement we all felt when our world was new.
I'm just so thrilled to have Luc working on this project. We couldnt have asked for better even if it was Will Wright himself. We have an unparalleled opportunity to be a part of the evolution of our game. At the very least I wouldnt want to ignore him and find out later that I could have made it better just by voicing my opinion. It cant hurt to talk about it right? And hey if it doesnt work out, at least we TRIED!!
I've been here since 2002 I also played the offline Sims and Sim City prior to TSO. I havent played the offline games since I started TSO it no longer interests me. Some people stopped playing TSO when TS2 came out. I never played TS2 and have no desire to, for me its all about the people I play with online. I can imagine that my 4 year old sims will take a backseat to the all new version TSO-E. Things have to evolve or they get stagnant.
I believe that Luc has a special place in his heart for TSO. I believe he will take us in an all new direction to places we only dreamed about in our little virtual world. I believe this for the same reasons Gracie stated above. I may be hoping all this for nothing, but its a risk my heart is willing to take, because I love TSO and the experiences and friends it brought me have been invaluable.
I doubt we will have to pay to beta test. I've not heard of any game that did charge for beta testing. I do expect to have to pay for the live game.
I seriously doubt that its possible to bring all these new things to the current TSO. They are rewriting all the code using new technology. Will the current game close in favor of the new? Maybe, but if so its just the evolution of our current world into a brave new one. Sure that means starting my sims over, but I'm willing to deal with that if it brings back the excitement we all felt when our world was new.
I'm just so thrilled to have Luc working on this project. We couldnt have asked for better even if it was Will Wright himself. We have an unparalleled opportunity to be a part of the evolution of our game. At the very least I wouldnt want to ignore him and find out later that I could have made it better just by voicing my opinion. It cant hurt to talk about it right? And hey if it doesnt work out, at least we TRIED!!
G
Guest
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
Sure that means starting my sims over, but I'm willing to deal with that if it brings back the excitement we all felt when our world was new.
[/ QUOTE ]
Exactly. If anyone is worried about their sim, then just think of it as you have just joined a whole new other game, and obviously, you will need to start from scratch.
Sure that means starting my sims over, but I'm willing to deal with that if it brings back the excitement we all felt when our world was new.
[/ QUOTE ]
Exactly. If anyone is worried about their sim, then just think of it as you have just joined a whole new other game, and obviously, you will need to start from scratch.
D
DjMacDaddy01201
Guest
I won't start over if they close the 1st tso for the new one ill quit for ever i didn't bust my butt for 4 years to start over so bring our sims to the new city or just leave our sims alone make new sims for the new city
M
MandiK
Guest
Didnt I read in Luc's blog that we would have to download a whole different thing to our desktop? Meaning not having anything to do with our existing sims? Why are people still talking like they have to 'start over' or delete something? Im confused =/
G
Guest
Guest
Because they won't be able to take their sims, skill locks, simoleans, and stuff with them. They'll have to create a whole new sim on TSO-E.
G
Guest
Guest
Well, I don't need no more applications, games on my computer. Yes I know beta will be FREE
TO TEST !.........
BUT!
after beta, it will be subscription (maybe don't quote me), you would have to pay money JUST like TSO AFTER BETA!...
If he keeps it free AFTER BETA, then fine I'll try it BUT after beta and he charges the same $$ as TSO then sorry but I'll stick with TSO my original game of choice!.
I'll wait n see and if my predictions are right, sorry but no thanks and good luck to Luc
IMO & hitting reply
TO TEST !.........
BUT!
after beta, it will be subscription (maybe don't quote me), you would have to pay money JUST like TSO AFTER BETA!...
If he keeps it free AFTER BETA, then fine I'll try it BUT after beta and he charges the same $$ as TSO then sorry but I'll stick with TSO my original game of choice!.
I'll wait n see and if my predictions are right, sorry but no thanks and good luck to Luc
IMO & hitting reply
G
Guest
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
<blockquote><hr>
web page
Luc's working on a saturday.
[/ QUOTE ]
... except this isn't his job... it's not really work. he's volunteering his time to show some interest in TSO.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's not really volunteering either, it's more of an investment. If this works out as planned, it can make him a well endowed man; if it fails, well, he's out a lot of time and energy.
<blockquote><hr>
web page
Luc's working on a saturday.
[/ QUOTE ]
... except this isn't his job... it's not really work. he's volunteering his time to show some interest in TSO.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's not really volunteering either, it's more of an investment. If this works out as planned, it can make him a well endowed man; if it fails, well, he's out a lot of time and energy.
- Status