OT: Debates?

[T'Challa]

Police officers kill. They are not charged with "murder".

People kill in self defense. They are not charged with "murder".

Websters:

Kill: 1 a: to deprive of life : cause the death of b

Murder: 1: the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought

Killing is an act. Murder is a crime. If there is no crime, it is not murder.

Big difference.

I guess the final definition depends on who you ask, truly...since the definition of a "crime" differs widely from country to country...If one considers our current presence in Iraq "criminal," then the soldiers "killing" the people over there are actually "murderers"

It is in the eye of the beholder as to whether or not a "killing" was committed during the act of a "crime" hence making the killer a "murderer"

That still doesn't make much sense even after trying to say it several different ways, lol. I think most people here are intelligent enough to catch my drift though...

 

[Vortex]

Conversely, if it's not a crime, it could never be murder. Who's laws are we using to judge this minor detail? In the US it would be US laws.. in iraq it would be...

Actually, even in Iraq the difference between murder and justified killings are defined. They may view different things as justified killings, but it still comes dow to the difference between a crime and a non-crime.

 

[T'Challa]

By the way, I consider our presence in Iraq criminal, however, I know the drill and know that our armed forces are only following their commander-in-chief, as they have sworn to do. You want to find the real criminals? Look to him and his VP...

 

[Mechanic]

Careful, your partisanship is showing. From a small town mayor, to a governor, to a VP candidate. Yeah, she's pretty vacant.




Two thirds of the world are tired, worn out regimes that lie to their people about how evil we are because we have "stuff" and they don't. Guess what? I don't give a **** about them nor what they think. If I were in charge, I'd take my ball and go home. I put all of our foreign aide money back into this country and let the world twist in the wind.

they got you hook line and sinker don't they?

 

[Vortex]

I guess the final definition depends on who you ask, truly...since the definition of a "crime" differs widely from country to country...If one considers our current presence in Iraq "criminal," then the soldiers "killing" the people over there are actually "murderers"

It is in the eye of the beholder as to whether or not a "killing" was committed during the act of a "crime" hence making the killer a "murderer"

That still doesn't make much sense even after trying to say it several different ways, lol. I think most people here are intelligent enough to catch my drift though...

You have a valid point there. However, the point of my post is that you cannot say that you support the troops and call them murderers in the same sentence. Unless of course you are implying that crime is okay...

 

[T'Challa]

You have a valid point there. However, the point of my post is that you cannot say that you support the troops and call them murderers in the same sentence. Unless of course you are implying that crime is okay...

I just about did that in my following post....read on

By the way, I consider our presence in Iraq criminal, however, I know the drill and know that our armed forces are only following their commander-in-chief, as they have sworn to do. You want to find the real criminals? Look to him and his VP...

And you know, I'm going to edit that...hang on

 

[Vortex]

By the way, I consider our presence in Iraq criminal, however, I know the drill and know that our armed forces are only following their commander-in-chief. You want to find the real criminals? Look to him and his VP...

Ah! Now thats a different story...

I was referring to the soldiers being called murderers.

 

[Sweeney]

By the way, I consider our presence in Iraq criminal, however, I know the drill and know that our armed forces are only following their commander-in-chief. You want to find the real criminals? Look to him and his VP...

Ah! Now thats a different story...

I was referring to the soldiers being called murderers.

I believe it was the Nuremburg trials that established a point of international law that simply "following orders" from a criminal makes you a criminal as well. So T'Challa's point is quite valid, and Vortex just approved?

 

[Pestilence Hemp]

Actually, its a bit more than a point of view. When you call soldiers murderers, you are implying a crime. Surely you see why people would call that disrespectful?

Well they did break the highest of all laws, the law of man.

from the point of view of the people that were killed or there families, soldiers are murderers.

I dont get offended when people say painters are drunks and drug addicts. it comes with the territory. (yes some painters are drunks and drug addicts but that can be said about any profession)

 

[Vortex]

I believe it was the Nuremburg trials that established a point of international law that simply "following orders" from a criminal makes you a criminal as well. So T'Challa's point is quite valid, and Vortex just approved?

Not by a long shot..

First of all, for Nuremburg to apply there has to be a "clear breach of international law". That does not exist in a declaration of war.

Secondly, T'challa's point was that it can be viewed as murder from a certain standpoint. He extended that to say that his view was that the Iraq War is a criminal action (his personal view as there was no violation of international law) and that he considers the commander-in-chief and the VP to be murderers. While I don't agree with that, I will concede that it is valid to have that point of view.

However, he also said that he does not blame the soldiers, they are doing what they are sworn to do. I took that to mean that he is not calling the soldiers murderers, he is saying they follow orders.

 

[Vortex]

Well they did break the highest of all laws, the law of man.

from the point of view of the people that were killed or there families, soldiers are murderers.

I dont get offended when people say painters are drunks and drug addicts. it comes with the territory. (yes some painters are drunks and drug addicts but that can be said about any profession)

Well, we have a huge difference of opinion on what are the highest laws, but lets not get into religion...

There is a difference in that and accusing someone of a crime. Calling a soldier (or anyone else) a murderer is an accusation of a crime.

If you want to call them murderers, fine. But don't tell me you support them with one lip and call them murderers with the other. Pick a side of the fence.

 

[KungFuGripJeremiah]

I believe it was the Nuremburg trials that established a point of international law that simply "following orders" from a criminal makes you a criminal as well. So T'Challa's point is quite valid, and Vortex just approved?

actually there were quite a few tried at nuremburg that were let go because they had commited no crime. The ones that were not let go were the ones that were overseeing the genocide of an entire race or had a hand in it. I have absolutely no doubt that if american soldiers were told to put every single Afgan or Iraqi man woman and child into an oven there would be mass rebellion from our military who would not follow such an order.

Nuremberg Military Tribunals:

In total, 142 of the 185 defendants were found guilty of at least one of the charges. 24 persons received death sentences, of which 11 were subsequently converted into lifetime imprisonments; 20 were sentenced to lifetime imprisonment, 98 were handed down prison sentences of varying lengths, and 35 were acquitted. Four defendants had to be removed from trials due to illness, and four more committed suicide during the trials.

Many of the longer prison sentences were reduced substantially by decree of high commissioner John J. McCloy in 1951, and 10 outstanding death sentences from the Einsatzgruppen Trial were converted to prison terms. The same year, an amnesty released many of those who had received prison sentences.

 

[Sweeney]

Not by a long shot..

First of all, for Nuremburg to apply there has to be a "clear breach of international law". That does not exist in a declaration of war.

Secondly, T'challa's point was that it can be viewed as murder from a certain standpoint. He extended that to say that his view was that the Iraq War is a criminal action (his personal view as there was no violation of international law) and that he considers the commander-in-chief and the VP to be murderers. While I don't agree with that, I will concede that it is valid to have that point of view.

However, he also said that he does not blame the soldiers, they are doing what they are sworn to do. I took that to mean that he is not calling the soldiers murderers, he is saying they follow orders.

As has been rehashed over the years by the media, this nation has not issued a declaration of war since WWII. Only congress can do this.

The torture of prisoners in Guantanamo was a clear breach of international law.
I'll post some links if I find them.. 10 minutes of sifting doesn't turn much up for 3-5 year old news.

 

[Pestilence Hemp]

Well, we have a huge difference of opinion on what are the highest laws, but lets not get into religion...

There is a difference in that and accusing someone of a crime. Calling a soldier (or anyone else) a murderer is an accusation of a crime.

If you want to call them murderers, fine. But don't tell me you support them with one lip and call them murderers with the other. Pick a side of the fence.

Actually i never said i support them. (had to go back and look, this theard is getting way to long)

fighting and killing is not the answer. they chose that course of action. I support that fact they chose to do something to better there lives. not the fact that they do it by fighting.

 

[Shh!]

I have yet to hear a reasonable explanation from any of you why you think Barak Obama would be a bad selection for our president. Please explain in detail. *waits*

I'm replying before I've read any further, keep that in mind.

1) He's a liberal, plain and simple. That alone is enough to take him out of consideration for me. I believe in personal responsibility, capitalism, smaller government, and a strong military. All of those things are the antithesis of what any liberal believes in.

2) He's running for the office of the most powerful man in the world and he's got 2 years US senate experience and community organizer on his resume. Sorry, not enough for me.

3) Jeremiah Wright and William Ayers. Both of them hate this country, one even going so far as terrorist acts against it. Obama has spent a LOT of time with these two. No way he doesn't at least share some of their same views on this country. Do I think he'll blow up the country or anything that extreme? Uh, no. However, his association and lack of genuine condemnation for these two slimeballs worries me.

I know I've said it before but I'll say it again. I am no fan of Juan McCain. In fact, I can't stand the guy. I DO like Sarah Palin. However, I am not voting for a VP, I am voting for a President first and a VP as an afterthought. I was DEFINITELY voting for Bob Barr but now that I've seen some of the idiots associated with Obama (in no way do I mean this towards you, just the people I see around my work and home), I have to cancel one of their votes by voting for McCain...but judging from all of the voter fraud and Ohio's brilliant register now/vote now early voting, I need to register a few thousand more times to make a difference.

 

[Shh!]

There has never been a more inexperience president than Baby Bush, yet you guys voted him in office not once, but twice! And now the US suffers the worst economy drop in the history of our country. But maybe no one notice his inexperience for personal reasons? In fact I wouldn't be at all surprised if ole Baby Bush was in special ed.

Actually, W. was the governor of Texas for 4 years. That double's Bammy's 2 years senate experience and it's more relevant. I'd much rather have a governor as President than a senator.

As for the economy, that can be laid squarely at the feet of Clinton and the Congress. They started the ball rolling, W. just wasn't smart enough to stop it.

 

[KungFuGripJeremiah]

I am no fan of Juan McCain.

you are now officially my favorite person in uo.

 

[Shh!]

Bush cut taxes, which if Obama is elected will go away and be replaced with raised taxes for anyone making over 250k a year. 250k is not a tax on the rich, its a tax on working class america and more pointedly small business.

well im not rich or middle class. im poor. so i doesnt affect me. why do all these people only care about rich and middle class? let me guess poor people will get trickle down?

BECAUSE WE'RE THE ONLY ONES PAYING FREAKING TAXES!!!

And yes, without the rich and, to a lesser extent the middle class, there would be even MORE poor people. The government isn't the only employer in the US!!!

 

[Shh!]

1. I like to think of them as people tired of crap. tomato, tomatoe

5. i dont disrespect soldiers, but they are murderers. they kill people its there job.

These two points alone show your ignorance (literal definition...damn word play ). You obviously need to look up the words "innocent", "murder", and "terrorism" in the dictionary.

1. William Ayers is a terrorist. Martin Luther King was "tired of crap" but he didn't resort to terrorism or conspire to murder anyone.

2. Murder is a legal term and connotes the wrongful death of an individual. Using that term in relation to our soldiers is of monumental disrespect to them.

so as you can see from any ones point of view anything is justifiable.

Hardly so.

 

[Shh!]

whoa
whoa
whoa...

Define that "profound" difference please...

If you kill someone, it is murder. It does not matter for which cause you did it for.

Absolutely, 100% incorrect. Murder is defined by law, therefore by definition when soldiers kill other combatants, it is most certainly NOT murder. Military hater-types throw around the word murder, even casually, because of it's nearly subconscious negative connotation.

 

[Shh!]

they got you hook line and sinker don't they?

If by "they" you mean rational thought and logic, yes, "they" got me.

 

[Shh!]

By the way, I consider our presence in Iraq criminal, however, I know the drill and know that our armed forces are only following their commander-in-chief, as they have sworn to do. You want to find the real criminals? Look to him and his VP...

And the UN and the entire civilized world...that's just not as convenient to bashing the US though, huh?

 

[Shh!]

fighting and killing is not the answer.

Sadly, sometimes it is. Sorry, when people want to kill us just because we're free and don't live by Sharia law, I am glad there are still some that won't sit back and allow that to happen. :bowdown:

There are two reasons as a conservative/semi-libertarian I am thankful for W.: supreme court judges and his courage (a lot here would say his stupidity ) to fight the war in the Middle East. :gun:

 

[T'Challa]

Absolutely, 100% incorrect. Murder is defined by law, therefore by definition when soldiers kill other combatants, it is most certainly NOT murder. Military hater-types throw around the word murder, even casually, because of it's nearly subconscious negative connotation.

Bolding by me...

Not everyone on this planet lives by your "law" remember...

 

[Shh!]

you are now officially my favorite person in uo.

Golly, I hardly know you!

 

[Shh!]

Bolding by me...

Not everyone on this planet lives by your "law" remember...

If some guy living in a cave in Iraq calls US soldiers "murderers" I have no trouble sleeping at night. Besides, international law does not define what our soldiers are doing as "murder" so that should be good enough for even an apologist, no?

 

[Shh!]

This has been a great thread so far with a lot of different views out there. I'm AMAZED that this hasn't degenerated into a big mess of name calling and cursing ...and I'm just talking about me! Even with all of the "quirky" personalities, I love this shard!

 

[Bennos Morales]

I have yet to hear a reasonable explanation from any of you why you think Barak Obama would be a bad selection for our president. Please explain in detail. *waits*

I would agree with Shh, as in his socialist slant. I don't believe in universal health care, it hasn't worked for other countries and it sure wouldn't work for us. I don't think taxing the people who achieve goals in our county more than the majority of americans who are just plain lazy (I being one of them) is a viable solution. I don't like his background, his nazi pastor, his communist wife and his partner in crime Bill Ayers. Obama has a sketchy past and just for that alone I would not vote for him.

McCain has been in office for many years, of course he is older than dirt, but thats beside the fact that he's worked with both parties on issues. He doesn't have a real sketchy background and I believe him to have the ability to stand against both freaking parties Reps, and Dems to better our situations. I may be a little ignorant at times but I can only go by my gut feeling.


Oh and btw, wasn't it Clinton that pushed through that bill that gave lenders less strict guidlines for loaning money to minorities, and people that didn't have the means to fullfill their contracts...I believe it was Clinton, not Bush....goes to find the answer....

 

[Pestilence Hemp]

These two points alone show your ignorance (literal definition...damn word play ). You obviously need to look up the words "innocent", "murder", and "terrorism" in the dictionary.

1. William Ayers is a terrorist. Martin Luther King was "tired of crap" but he didn't resort to terrorism or conspire to murder anyone.

2. Murder is a legal term and connotes the wrongful death of an individual. Using that term in relation to our soldiers is of monumental disrespect to them.




Hardly so.

Look these words up? why all these definitions, were made up by somebody i disagree with. matter of fact everything in this world, is made up by somebody i disagree with. If people can make these things up why cant I?
So kill\murder to me is essentually the same thing. The end result being someone dead and someone dealing it. just becuase people want to justify there actions, by using terms like, patriotic, self defense, and protection, and my favorite becuase of god.

disrespectful....well maybe, if they take it that way. thats there\your option.

 

[Shh!]

Look these words up? why all these definitions, were made up by somebody i disagree with. matter of fact everything in this world, is made up by somebody i disagree with. If people can make these things up why cant I?
So kill\murder to me is essentually the same thing. The end result being someone dead and someone dealing it. just becuase people want to justify there actions, by using terms like, patriotic, self defense, and protection, and my favorite becuase of god.

disrespectful....well maybe, if they take it that way. thats there\your option.

Words HAVE to have meaning. Saying they don't is like arguing over the definition of the word "is."

And I guess you COULD make up your own words but then people would laugh at you like they do people who speak "Klingon."

 

[KungFuGripJeremiah]

Oh and btw, wasn't it Clinton that pushed through that bill that gave lenders less strict guidlines for loaning money to minorities, and people that didn't have the means to fullfill their contracts...I believe it was Clinton, not Bush....goes to find the answer....

it was indeed slick willie that started us down the road, but we need to get on track and stop spending money we dont have or we will end up like the ussr someday.what we need is a balanced budget, we need to cut out some of the fat of the nation. I would start with all the departments, education/homeland security/interior/etc. and trim them down if not totally eliminate them. ...welfare....gone....get a job, no free rides at all with a few limited exceptions. If we cut out some of the enormous bueracracies and scaled back our spending to year 2000 budget levels we could eliminate the income tax entirely without replacing it with anything. talk about a stimulus package everyone would make 30-50% more overnight. We should definately not be the policemen of the world, but we do need to finish what weve started.

Look these words up? why all these definitions, were made up by somebody i disagree with. matter of fact everything in this world, is made up by somebody i disagree with. If people can make these things up why cant I?
So kill\murder to me is essentually the same thing. The end result being someone dead and someone dealing it. just becuase people want to justify there actions, by using terms like, patriotic, self defense, and protection, and my favorite becuase of god.

disrespectful....well maybe, if they take it that way. thats there\your option.

so let me get this straight, you wouldnt kill for your country/ to defend yourself/ or to protect what is yours. the people our soldiers are fighting over there would kill you without a second thought. while i do believe we will indeed have to adress the blowback issue at some point were we not to be fighting them over there we would have to fight them here in some fashion or another. you seem to disagree with all the rules of society and would like that maybe we just threw out the constitution and just asked you how we should run things. there are alot of things about our foriegn policy i do not agree with, but in the end i am an american and i would fight/die and yes kill for the ground beneath my feet.

 

[Sweeney]

Any realistic policy needs to include paying off the debt to foreign nations. In 2007, $237 billion was spent solely on interest payments, which was 9% of the entire budget.
I've only heard the candidates (and even the president) talk about balancing the budget. We don't need to balance it, we need the gov't to get some positive cashflow to pay off this debt.

 

[Bennos Morales]

Oh and btw, wasn't it Clinton that pushed through that bill that gave lenders less strict guidlines for loaning money to minorities, and people that didn't have the means to fullfill their contracts...I believe it was Clinton, not Bush....goes to find the answer....

it was indeed slick willie that started us down the road, but we need to get on track and stop spending money we dont have or we will end up like the ussr someday.what we need is a balanced budget, we need to cut out some of the fat of the nation. I would start with all the departments, education/homeland security/interior/etc. and trim them down if not totally eliminate them. ...welfare....gone....get a job, no free rides at all with a few limited exceptions. If we cut out some of the enormous bueracracies and scaled back our spending to year 2000 budget levels we could eliminate the income tax entirely without replacing it with anything. talk about a stimulus package everyone would make 30-50% more overnight. We should definately not be the policemen of the world, but we do need to finish what weve started.

Look these words up? why all these definitions, were made up by somebody i disagree with. matter of fact everything in this world, is made up by somebody i disagree with. If people can make these things up why cant I?
So kill\murder to me is essentually the same thing. The end result being someone dead and someone dealing it. just becuase people want to justify there actions, by using terms like, patriotic, self defense, and protection, and my favorite becuase of god.

disrespectful....well maybe, if they take it that way. thats there\your option.

so let me get this straight, you wouldnt kill for your country/ to defend yourself/ or to protect what is yours. the people our soldiers are fighting over there would kill you without a second thought. while i do believe we will indeed have to adress the blowback issue at some point were we not to be fighting them over there we would have to fight them here in some fashion or another. you seem to disagree with all the rules of society and would like that maybe we just threw out the constitution and just asked you how we should run things. there are alot of things about our foriegn policy i do not agree with, but in the end i am an american and i would fight/die and yes kill for the ground beneath my feet.

lol thats just funny, here is something else funny....http://alfin2100.blogspot.com/2008/09/jimmy-carter-bill-clinton-share-blame.html

Btw, of course it assisted Willie out, democrats screw things up and takes a decade for the republicans to fix before the next wave crashes down. Jeesh..anywho.


erm..um..:/....If you set out on a quest as an American soldier to kill people than you are one sick individual and need to be incarcerated. Unfortunatly it happens, people shoot at you, you will do so in retalliation not in an abject mindset to kill. I would defend till the death, not kill in agravation. Same goes for the protection of my house, wife and children dog and my beer. You even bring up the constitution...*places hands over face*

 

[Pestilence Hemp]

Words HAVE to have meaning. Saying they don't is like arguing over the definition of the word "is."

And I guess you COULD make up your own words but then people would laugh at you like they do people who speak "Klingon."

HAHA nicely put!

Really that is most of my point in the debates thread, and really the religious thread. Peoples points of view are different.
you say defending, i say murder. you say yes, i say no.
Im just trying to make sure every point of view is represented.
To me there is no right or wrong, its every individuals point of view.

People talk alot about "being on the fence." I see nothing wrong with that. that tells me your at least thinking of the other side and whats going on.

This life is a balance, so having a little bit of everything is ok by me!

 

[Shh!]

Any realistic policy needs to include paying off the debt to foreign nations. In 2007, $237 billion was spent solely on interest payments, which was 9% of the entire budget.
I've only heard the candidates (and even the president) talk about balancing the budget. We don't need to balance it, we need the gov't to get some positive cashflow to pay off this debt.

QFMFT!!

 

[Shh!]

To me there is no right or wrong, its every individuals point of view.

And see that's where we disagree. I believe in a black and white world with very few shades of gray. 2 + 2 ALWAYS equals 4 in my world, no matter what public school teachers say! That doesn't mean I can't see someone else's side of the story, it just means I don't have to agree with it.

And even though I disagree with most of what you say, you're still alright by me

 

[Pestilence Hemp]

so let me get this straight, you wouldnt kill for your country/ to defend yourself/ or to protect what is yours. the people our soldiers are fighting over there would kill you without a second thought. while i do believe we will indeed have to adress the blowback issue at some point were we not to be fighting them over there we would have to fight them here in some fashion or another. you seem to disagree with all the rules of society and would like that maybe we just threw out the constitution and just asked you how we should run things. there are alot of things about our foriegn policy i do not agree with, but in the end i am an american and i would fight/die and yes kill for the ground beneath my feet.

If i was being attacked your damn right i would defend myself. after i was done defending would i go around and keep attacking, NO!

Not everyone "over there" would kill you without a second thought.

Why do we have to fight them? because there attacking us? Why are they attacking us? Because were over there? Why are we over there? To stop the terrorist from attacking us? why are they attacking us? Because were over there?

Now with these few simple questions, do you begin to see the never ending cycle?

Your damn right i disagree with rules of society.
Why?
because most of these standards and rules were set by people that DO NOT have my best interest at heart.

If I\anyone didnt disagree this world would be far to boring.

An American willing to kill\die for your country?
your a Damn human being. quit separating yourselves!

 

[Pestilence Hemp]

And even though I disagree with most of what you say, you're still alright by me

Right back at ya!

Im just trying offer an alternative point of view.

Obama is right about something we need change. unfortunately for him that change we need involves the entire government to move on from this
dinosaur\archaic way of thinking. which none of them can do!

 

[Bennos Morales]

btw Shh....have you forgotten Uber, l33t, haxxor, pwned many words are misspelled/used its in our culture now. So for this you shall be branded :loser:

 

[Shh!]

Why do we have to fight them? because there attacking us? Why are they attacking us? Because were over there? Why are we over there? To stop the terrorist from attacking us? why are they attacking us? Because were over there?

Let me pose a hypothetical to you:

Say you lived in a nice, quiet neighborhood. Everyone on your street was decent and you got along with them except the one guy and his kids across the street. Let's say, one night, his kids break into your house and break all of your beloved widgets (whatever you value, who knows what). You replace all your widgets and go over to their house and ask them nicely to not do that again. The next night, the kids come over again and break all your widgets. Every night the same thing happens. This goes on for a week. Then a month. Then a year. At what (if any) point do you go over and kick the Dad's ass? (No, you can't move or call the cops!)

An American willing to kill\die for your country?
your a Damn human being. quit separating yourselves!

I am part of the human race, however I am also an American. As such I believe in freedom, capitalism, and opportunity. I also believe this country and our system is currently better than anything else out there right now. I think that those people who DON'T think that should explore what other countries have to offer and see if they don't miss what they had here. See, I want my kids to live in a special place, not just any place.

 

[Shh!]

btw Shh....have you forgotten Uber, l33t, haxxor, pwned many words are misspelled/used its in our culture now. So for this you shall be branded :loser:

Ahh, but much like those who speak "Klingon", I laugh at people that use "leet speak."

 

[Bennos Morales]

Ahh, but much like those who speak "Klingon", I laugh at people that use "leet speak."

ok, back to UO

 

[Pestilence Hemp]

Let me pose a hypothetical to you:

Say you lived in a nice, quiet neighborhood. Everyone on your street was decent and you got along with them except the one guy and his kids across the street. Let's say, one night, his kids break into your house and break all of your beloved widgets (whatever you value, who knows what). You replace all your widgets and go over to their house and ask them nicely to not do that again. The next night, the kids come over again and break all your widgets. Every night the same thing happens. This goes on for a week. Then a month. Then a year. At what (if any) point do you go over and kick the Dad's ass? (No, you can't move or call the cops!)

I would have set there house on fire the first night. it wouldnt have happened again......:gun:

I am part of the human race, however I am also an American. As such I believe in freedom, capitalism, and opportunity. I also believe this country and our system is currently better than anything else out there right now. I think that those people who DON'T think that should explore what other countries have to offer and see if they don't miss what they had here. See, I want my kids to live in a special place, not just any place.

...and you have every right to do what you want, so does everyone else.

 

[Shh!]

Obama is right about something we need change. unfortunately for him that change we need involves the entire government to move on from this
dinosaur\archaic way of thinking. which none of them can do!

Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. And that's where we're headed.

Thanks for the entertainment man. I needed something to do tonight!

 

[Shh!]

I would have set there house on fire the first night. it wouldnt have happened again......:gun:

hahahaha :bowdown:

...and you have every right to do what you want, so does everyone else.

I hear ya...but as Americans we are supposed to be the "melting pot." That infers that we melt together as one and all head the same direction. The direction that our Constitution points out. That's how we got to be the envy of the world in less than 200 years. No one else can claim they did so well, so fast!!

 

[Pestilence Hemp]

Nice debates all. went better then the real debate went.

Again I cant believe this thread went as long as it did without being locked.
two vol ital subjects conquered on stratics.

 

[Shh!]

Nice debates all. went better then the real debate went.

Again I cant believe this thread went as long as it did without being locked.
two vol ital subjects conquered on stratics.

I wonder what would have happened had this thread been in U.Hell?

 

[Pestilence Hemp]

I wonder what would have happened had this thread been in U.Hell?

I would have ended it, before it began.

I would have started it way different. somthing like my guy is better. your guy eats babies. something like that.

 

[Vortex]

I would have ended it, before it began.

I would have started it way different. somthing like my guy is better. your guy eats babies. something like that.

ROFL

 

[Sweeney]

Or maybe something like:
Palin wants to outlaw abortion, yet says she is proud of her daughter deciding to keep her baby. I know Palin had no say in the matter of course[/sarcasm], so isn't that false pride? One of the Seven Deadly Sins?

Eh thought I'd bring this full circle back to the VP debate where it started, and maybe incite a few people in the process.