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OT: Debates?

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O

Ole Cheapy

Guest
Well let's stop em before they start... here's a list of non black republicans who also endorses Barak Obama. :)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tag/republicans-for-obama
Neat! Look, I can find a list of insignificant Democrats that back McCain. What's next??? :mf_prop:

http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/democrats_endorse_mccain/2008/06/15/104660.html

I think you meant to say you can find a list of prejudice democrats who support Mccain. Any idiot with a IQ of .01 can tell the difference between my point and yours.
 
O

Ole Cheapy

Guest
Wait a minute, Bush has a secretary of state named Condolleza Rice who is black and a female....so rolleyes: but that isn't mentioned about how "Liberal" Bush was does it....*wink*
Actually imo she is the most qualified republicans on the planet to lead our nation. But why do you think she has never ran for president? Correctamundo, buddy!
 

Shh!

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I think you meant to say you can find a list of prejudice democrats who support Mccain. Any idiot with a IQ of .01 can tell the difference between my point and yours.
So when a dem supports a GOP, they're prejudiced and when a GOP supports a dem, they're enlightened? Man, you are even more f'd in the head than you've previously displayed. You're proof for my argument that there should be a civics and IQ test administered to everyone prior to voting...but if they did that, there would be a lot of out of work politicians.
 

Shh!

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Actually imo she is the most qualified republicans on the planet to lead our nation. But why do you think she has never ran for president? Correctamundo, buddy!
Because she's too smart? Because she's resisted every effort by the GOP to thrust her into the spotlight? Because she wants to run the NFL? Because she can't bring herself to run a country in which you live?
 
O

Ole Cheapy

Guest
So when a dem supports a GOP, they're prejudiced and when a GOP supports a dem, they're enlightened? Man, you are even more f'd in the head than you've previously displayed. You're proof for my argument that there should be a civics and IQ test administered to everyone prior to voting...but if they did that, there would be a lot of out of work politicians.

Trying to ignore the FACT that a lot of voters simply WILL NOT vote for Obama for the simple fact of his skin color would lead me to believe someone was "f'd in the head" as you so eloquently put it. Just as some people WILL vote for Obama simply because of the color of his skin, this is a part of life, it is what it is. It's common knowledge for me and the rest of the world. Sorry you didn't get the memo.

Fortunately there is not enough of "those" type people to make a difference, as this election is over. :)
 
O

Ole Cheapy

Guest
Because she's too smart? Because she's resisted every effort by the GOP to thrust her into the spotlight? Because she wants to run the NFL? Because she can't bring herself to run a country in which you live?
Or maybe she doesn't want attempts on her life due to the color of her skin like Obama has had to deal with. Again, sorry you didn't get the memo. :(
 
O

Ole Cheapy

Guest
However, I do find it quite amusing how people who make lkess than 25k each year have the audacity to cry about how they don't want their taxes raised "if" they make over 250k per year. Does that sound like a logical argument for someone who is so adamant about not voting for Obama? *chuckles*
 

Shh!

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Trying to ignore the FACT that a lot of voters simply WILL NOT vote for Obama for the simple fact of his skin color would lead me to believe someone was "f'd in the head" as you so eloquently put it. Just as some people WILL vote for Obama simply because of the color of his skin, this is a part of life, it is what it is. It's common knowledge for me and the rest of the world. Sorry you didn't get the memo.

Fortunately there is not enough of "those" type people to make a difference, as this election is over. :)
Bammy's lead is within the margin of error after last week's nearly double digit lead. However, I tend to agree with you. The 3rd world country-type election practices this time around I think will steal the election for Comrade Obama. C'est la vie. Jimmy Carter led to Ronald Reagan.
 

Shh!

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Or maybe she doesn't want attempts on her life due to the color of her skin like Obama has had to deal with. Again, sorry you didn't get the memo. :(
No, thankfully Miss Rice does not hide behind the excuse of racism. She goes out and takes advantage of all of the opportunities she is afforded from living in this great country. If only more people "of her skin color" would do the same then racism would truly cease to exist.
 

Shh!

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
However, I do find it quite amusing how people who make lkess than 25k each year have the audacity to cry about how they don't want their taxes raised "if" they make over 250k per year. Does that sound like a logical argument for someone who is so adamant about not voting for Obama? *chuckles*

I make more than 25k per year but far, far less than 250k per year. I am a proponent of the national sales tax though. I don't think people should pay based on what they earn. Everyone should contribute, not just the top few percent paying the lion's share of taxes and people who pay no taxes getting tax refunds and government bribes (stimulus checks).
 
O

Ole Cheapy

Guest
Or maybe she doesn't want attempts on her life due to the color of her skin like Obama has had to deal with. Again, sorry you didn't get the memo. :(
No, thankfully Miss Rice does not hide behind the excuse of racism. She goes out and takes advantage of all of the opportunities she is afforded from living in this great country. If only more people "of her skin color" would do the same then racism would truly cease to exist.

That almost made me choke! Racism isn't the effect of people not taking advantage of their opportunities, racism been around since the "americans" stirred their boats in the direction of Africa. *chuckling* WOW, how funny.
 
B

Bennos Morales

Guest
:sleep2:
Or maybe she doesn't want attempts on her life due to the color of her skin like Obama has had to deal with. Again, sorry you didn't get the memo. :(
No, thankfully Miss Rice does not hide behind the excuse of racism. She goes out and takes advantage of all of the opportunities she is afforded from living in this great country. If only more people "of her skin color" would do the same then racism would truly cease to exist.

That almost made me choke! Racism isn't the effect of people not taking advantage of their opportunities, racism been around since the "americans" stirred their boats in the direction of Africa. *chuckling* WOW, how funny.
*scratches head* Afirmative action? Sounds similar to me. *shrugs*
 
S

Sweeney

Guest
I make more than 25k per year but far, far less than 250k per year. I am a proponent of the national sales tax though. I don't think people should pay based on what they earn. Everyone should contribute, not just the top few percent paying the lion's share of taxes and people who pay no taxes getting tax refunds and government bribes (stimulus checks).
A Huckabee Republican (don't quote me on that).. the only position of his that I admired was the national sales tax. I'd prefer Ron Paul over both of the current candidates with a touch of the Huckabee (not the religous slant). Paul is a strict constitutionalist, which I will always support. But seeing as how McCain will draw us into two more wars (Iran and North Korea) with no end in sight (according to his plan) on the current two, I am voting for the first time.
 

Shh!

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
A Huckabee Republican (don't quote me on that).. the only position of his that I admired was the national sales tax. I'd prefer Ron Paul over both of the current candidates with a touch of the Huckabee (not the religous slant). Paul is a strict constitutionalist, which I will always support. But seeing as how McCain will draw us into two more wars (Iran and North Korea) with no end in sight (according to his plan) on the current two, I am voting for the first time.
To be honest, I respect that no matter how much I disagree with it. I am not fond of the war in Iraq even though I believe it was/is necessary. Today's current form of government will never be able to efficiently wage a war. While I believed Iraq was a good thing, it was botched almost from day 1. That being said, I'd rather this country fight in two more wars than head farther down the road of Socialism. It's much more destructive.

P.S. Registered Independent. I hate all politicians at this point. However, I hate Obama more since he's the antithesis of what the founding fathers had in mind for the direction of this country. If Ron Paul was a viable candidate, he'd get my vote even though I like Barr more.
 

Shh!

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
That almost made me choke! Racism isn't the effect of people not taking advantage of their opportunities, racism been around since the "americans" stirred their boats in the direction of Africa. *chuckling* WOW, how funny.
Almost? Darn.

First of all, racism is the effect of many things but that has nothing to do with what I stated. I said some people merely choose not to hide behind excuses. There absolutely is racism in this world, however refusing to try to succeed and better yourself because of that is plain stupid.

Oh, and while some Americans "stirred their boats" towards Africa, please don't imply that it was all big bad whitey that powered the slave trade. Plenty of Africans arrived on American soil as captives of tribal wars. True there was a market here but that's only half of the equation.

It's really amusing to me how angry you are. I thought Republicans were supposed to be the evil, angry, hatemongers? :sad3:
 
S

Sweeney

Guest
Almost? Darn.

First of all, racism is the effect of many things but that has nothing to do with what I stated. I said some people merely choose not to hide behind excuses. There absolutely is racism in this world, however refusing to try to succeed and better yourself because of that is plain stupid.

Oh, and while some Americans "stirred their boats" towards Africa, please don't imply that it was all big bad whitey that powered the slave trade. Plenty of Africans arrived on American soil as captives of tribal wars. True there was a market here but that's only half of the equation.

It's really amusing to me how angry you are. I thought Republicans were supposed to be the evil, angry, hatemongers? :sad3:
History does skew things.. the truth is, a lot of the slaves sent to North America were captured by black opposing-tribesmen. In the end it is all about capitalism.

Thus far I have not injected the future into this thread aside from deriding all current candidates, but I truly fear McCain as president. Luckily my smoking will likely keep me out of any draft. (The military stretched as it is, a draft is inevitable if McCain wants to Bomb Bomb Bomb, Bomb Bomb Iran. Iran actually has a sizeable military force, the first for US engagements in 50 years. Attacking Iran would mean a true war, not a "military incursion" in the current parlance.)

McCain says nothing about American infrastructure aside from Nuclear Power Plants and energy company concerns. Tis true, this country needs to use it's natural resources.. but exploit them, no. What will be left for our great-great-great-grandchildren? There is a strategic element to leaving some(a lot) of our crude resources for a national crisis.. WW3 might leave us needing to use the leased-lands of oil already haved (a word) by the oil companies.

I would much rather go into debt in the struggle to obtain educational excellence, infrastructure perfection, energy independence.. than to fight 2 (possibly 2 more) wars.

Aside to the previous paragragh: Japan already has a high speed rail system that moves at almost 300 mph.. where is our mass transit system? A national mass-transit initiative would dramatically lower petroleum needs while bolstering employment, due to more qualified people living within a living range of their job.

An energy-efficient industrial sector is the way of the 21st century. Everyone knows it. It will take massive investment to bring such a thing into feasability. The true meaning of investment is "future payoff".
 
O

Ole Cheapy

Guest
Almost? Darn.

First of all, racism is the effect of many things but that has nothing to do with what I stated. I said some people merely choose not to hide behind excuses. There absolutely is racism in this world, however refusing to try to succeed and better yourself because of that is plain stupid.

Oh, and while some Americans "stirred their boats" towards Africa, please don't imply that it was all big bad whitey that powered the slave trade. Plenty of Africans arrived on American soil as captives of tribal wars. True there was a market here but that's only half of the equation.

It's really amusing to me how angry you are. I thought Republicans were supposed to be the evil, angry, hatemongers? :sad3:

I have no anger on this topic, I'm just further educated than most. But this thread was not about racism and I would like for us to get back on topic if it's all the same with you.


Mccain has very short arms don't ya think? When he moves his arms he looks like a turtle trying to move around. ;)
 
S

Sweeney

Guest
I have no anger on this topic, I'm just further educated than most. But this thread was not about racism and I would like for us to get back on topic if it's all the same with you.


Mccain has very short arms don't ya think? When he moves his arms he looks like a turtle trying to move around. ;)
You know with 4 days to go you aren't going to change jack s**t's opinion. I may be against McCain but I won't stoop to his crippled arms as a recourse.

As a former general (Whom I don't remember as he was forgotten by the media) said.. being a POW doesn't mean you're the best qualified person to be president.
 
O

Ole Cheapy

Guest
You know with 4 days to go you aren't going to change jack s**t's opinion. I may be against McCain but I won't stoop to his crippled arms as a recourse.

As a former general (Whom I don't remember as he was forgotten by the media) said.. being a POW doesn't mean you're the best qualified person to be president.

I have neither sympathy nor empathy for Mccain's arm issues. He gets no reparations or apologies from me. Do you consider my attitude to be cold and heartless?
 
B

Bennos Morales

Guest
I have neither sympathy nor empathy for Mccain's arm issues. He gets no reparations or apologies from me. Do you consider my attitude to be cold and heartless?
Nope, as do the people associated with the plot to kill Obama. Hollywood steps of congeniality is what they deserve, no more than no more for.
 
S

Sweeney

Guest
I have neither sympathy nor empathy for Mccain's arm issues. He gets no reparations or apologies from me. Do you consider my attitude to be cold and heartless?
I don't consider you anything.. in fact I probably agree with you. But a man takes a low road when he resorts to cheap shots to make a point. You offered nothing to the thread and only weakened any potential evidence you may have.
 

Shh!

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I have no anger on this topic, I'm just further educated than most.
I'd beg to differ. You spout the same old tired rhetoric of the "hate America" crowd that wishes to turn us into another failed socialist country. You offer no intellectual backup for your positions. While I disagree almost 100% with Sweeney, at least he is offering up some reasoning for his points.


But this thread was not about racism and I would like for us to get back on topic if it's all the same with you.
Another typical characteristic of someone who is uneducated about his position. You throw out racism as an excuse (why Miss Rice isn't running for President) then when someone calls you on your ignorance of the topic, you want to change the subject once again.

Mccain has very short arms don't ya think? When he moves his arms he looks like a turtle trying to move around. ;)
Something I actually agree with you on. However, I don't see what relevance it has. I didn't bring up Obama's ears or Ron Paul's face :lol:
 

Shh!

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
History does skew things.. the truth is, a lot of the slaves sent to North America were captured by black opposing-tribesmen. In the end it is all about capitalism.

Thus far I have not injected the future into this thread aside from deriding all current candidates, but I truly fear McCain as president. Luckily my smoking will likely keep me out of any draft. (The military stretched as it is, a draft is inevitable if McCain wants to Bomb Bomb Bomb, Bomb Bomb Iran. Iran actually has a sizeable military force, the first for US engagements in 50 years. Attacking Iran would mean a true war, not a "military incursion" in the current parlance.)

McCain says nothing about American infrastructure aside from Nuclear Power Plants and energy company concerns. Tis true, this country needs to use it's natural resources.. but exploit them, no. What will be left for our great-great-great-grandchildren? There is a strategic element to leaving some(a lot) of our crude resources for a national crisis.. WW3 might leave us needing to use the leased-lands of oil already haved (a word) by the oil companies.

I would much rather go into debt in the struggle to obtain educational excellence, infrastructure perfection, energy independence.. than to fight 2 (possibly 2 more) wars.

Aside to the previous paragragh: Japan already has a high speed rail system that moves at almost 300 mph.. where is our mass transit system? A national mass-transit initiative would dramatically lower petroleum needs while bolstering employment, due to more qualified people living within a living range of their job.

An energy-efficient industrial sector is the way of the 21st century. Everyone knows it. It will take massive investment to bring such a thing into feasability. The true meaning of investment is "future payoff".
The way I look at it, none of that matters a whit to me. It's like worrying about my dinner burning the oven while my house is on fire. Energy, high speed rail, infrastructure, etc means nothing if we are under constant terrorist threats or stray further down the path of socialism. Once I am confident those two things are under control, then I can worry about the less important things.

And the draft is a straw dog. There will NOT be a draft in the US again. It's political suicide, therefore it won't happen. It's nothing more than another scare issue for the dems, much like social security and health care. However, your argument about Iran's army requiring an actual engagement is the same argument that was put forth about Iraq's army after the initial attack. The fact is neither would be an effort to remove. Keep in mind they fought each other to a stalemate for 8 years. The only people talking up Iran are Iran and liberal pundits that hate the military.
 
O

Ole Cheapy

Guest
I'd beg to differ. You spout the same old tired rhetoric of the "hate America" crowd that wishes to turn us into another failed socialist country. You offer no intellectual backup for your positions. While I disagree almost 100% with Sweeney, at least he is offering up some reasoning for his points.




Another typical characteristic of someone who is uneducated about his position. You throw out racism as an excuse (why Miss Rice isn't running for President) then when someone calls you on your ignorance of the topic, you want to change the subject once again.



Something I actually agree with you on. However, I don't see what relevance it has. I didn't bring up Obama's ears or Ron Paul's face :lol:

I normally wouldn't even dignify these ridiculous accusations with a response, but since you are in no danger of ever getting a clue, I'll proceed with the following words.....

Race issue: You pretend that I am some sort of racist or claim that I have made a racist remark about Mrs. Rice, but this is not true, the only thing racist about my comment was your perception of the words that I typed, and that's because you have a one track mind and your level of intelligence doesn't allow you to interpret my words in any other way. Trust me when I tell you that it is with mathematically certainty that I am not prejudice, nor am I a racist.


My insight on the economy: I know the major reasons why our economy is in the shape it's in, and how to prevent it from happening again in the future. I know this because I am in a position to know this. Will anyone of importance listen to me? Probably not. Therefore I'll keep my knowledge of the situation to myself and use it to prevent myself from falling into the recession trap that most are falling into.


Main reason Obama will win this election: This is my favorite and most powerful... There is a HUGE reason why Mccain supporters are gonna lose this election, and the best part about it is they have no clue why (did I mention I love this part?). Mccain and his supporters has handed Obama's campaign the power on a silver platter. *tries not to laugh*.... This may sound crazy but it is very true. I won't say what the power is, but i will say that this power has been around since the beginning of mankind and it is the most powerful force on the planet. On behalf of myself and all the Obama supporters from across the land, we thank you! It is time for change. la
 

Shh!

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Race issue: You pretend that I am some sort of racist or claim that I have made a racist remark about Mrs. Rice,
No, I did not claim you to be a racist. Let me try this again: you insinuated that Condie Rice cannot run for President because the evil white republicans won't let her. I cried BS. You started babbling about whitey taking his boat to Africa to get some slaves. I laid out the truth. You changed the subject. Case closed.

My insight on the economy: I know the major reasons why our economy is in the shape it's in, and how to prevent it from happening again in the future. I know this because I am in a position to know this.
Your "insight", if it's what you posted earlier, is laughable at best. The truth is your party, along with a LOT of GOP appeasers, created this mess. Plain and simple. Bammy won't fix it. McCain won't fix it. No politician will fix it. Why? Because they're all crooked and want power. How can they get power? By destroying things and then claiming they must take them over to "save" them.

Main reason Obama will win this election: This is my favorite and most powerful... There is a HUGE reason why Mccain supporters are gonna lose this election, and the best part about it is they have no clue why (did I mention I love this part?). Mccain and his supporters has handed Obama's campaign the power on a silver platter. *tries not to laugh*.... This may sound crazy but it is very true. I won't say what the power is, but i will say that this power has been around since the beginning of mankind and it is the most powerful force on the planet. On behalf of myself and all the Obama supporters from across the land, we thank you! It is time for change. la
Are you related to Howard Dean? You make about as much sense as he does. And it is time for a change. Unfortunately, we're not talking about the same kind of change. I want the kind of change that will make us great again. You want the kind of change that will lead to the eventual collapse of our nation.
 
O

Ole Cheapy

Guest
Are you related to Howard Dean? You make about as much sense as he does. And it is time for a change. Unfortunately, we're not talking about the same kind of change. I want the kind of change that will make us great again. You want the kind of change that will lead to the eventual collapse of our nation.

So because there is something that you don't understand, that makes me crazy? Perhaps you just don't know and understand everything. You don't understand because since the day you were born your mind has been programed to think only one way. It's not your fault for your lack of knowledge. The world has taught you these bad habbits.

People fear what they don't understand, and they hate what they fear.
 
O

Ole Cheapy

Guest
And for the people who support the war in iraq and say sadam was a bad dictator blah blah blah. Well the irony to this is China has one of the worst dictatorships in the world, but yet they are the ones who gave us the money to fight the war in iraq. You don't see us trying to bully them and tell them how to run their country do you? No, instead we have our hands out begging for more money. *shakes head*
 

Shh!

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
So because there is something that you don't understand, that makes me crazy? Perhaps you just don't know and understand everything. You don't understand because since the day you were born your mind has been programed to think only one way. It's not your fault for your lack of knowledge. The world has taught you these bad habbits.

People fear what they don't understand, and they hate what they fear.
Not even close. The old quote about not arguing with an idiot because they will drag you down and beat you with experience really applies here. This country is doomed.
 

Shh!

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
And for the people who support the war in iraq and say sadam was a bad dictator blah blah blah. Well the irony to this is China has one of the worst dictatorships in the world, but yet they are the ones who gave us the money to fight the war in iraq. You don't see us trying to bully them and tell them how to run their country do you? No, instead we have our hands out begging for more money. *shakes head*
But yet you support a dumbass that wants to go right back to them with his hand out for more money to bribe the idiot masses with. It's amazing, you get so close then...nothing.
 
B

Bennos Morales

Guest
Not even close. The old quote about not arguing with an idiot because they will drag you down and beat you with experience really applies here. This country is doomed.
I will disagree with you as far as the "This country is doomed" comment. Sure we'll go down for awhile, but we will recover. Unless they start feeding christians to the lions again...*shrugs*
 
S

Sweeney

Guest
And for the people who support the war in iraq and say sadam was a bad dictator blah blah blah. Well the irony to this is China has one of the worst dictatorships in the world, but yet they are the ones who gave us the money to fight the war in iraq. You don't see us trying to bully them and tell them how to run their country do you? No, instead we have our hands out begging for more money. *shakes head*
Actually China has a progressive dictatorship.. in the past 10 years they have moved towards capitalism. Everyone cries for democracy yet when Palestine elected Hamas they cried foul. Democracy is not for everyone.. the people need to be ready for such responsibility. One of the US's founding fathers (Damn I wish I remembered who, I loved the letter) said that the US should be a beacon of light, and not force democracy onto anyone; let them see that it is the best.

Bush 41 saw the necessity of "buffer states". Iraq kept Iran in check.. stability in the middle east was assured by the constant threat of war, similar to the cold war reality of stability due to the threat of mutual annhiliation. Saddam was the only middle east leader to allow women full participation in the political and job sector. Despite his iron-fist rule he was fairly progressive, he wanted the best of the best no matter the sex or religion (secularism was enforced).

Forcing anyone to do anything is the worst way to go. Debate and the promise of convincing always win.

The only reason the US hasn't tried forcing China to go democratic is that we saw the failure of that policy in Russia and Vietnam. Nixon saw that befriending a people, no matter their beliefs, and casually letting them see the benefits of democracy, would turn them.

China is an oxymoron waiting to happen.. capitalist yet communist. One side will win.
 
S

Sweeney

Guest
The way I look at it, none of that matters a whit to me. It's like worrying about my dinner burning the oven while my house is on fire. Energy, high speed rail, infrastructure, etc means nothing if we are under constant terrorist threats or stray further down the path of socialism. Once I am confident those two things are under control, then I can worry about the less important things.

And the draft is a straw dog. There will NOT be a draft in the US again. It's political suicide, therefore it won't happen. It's nothing more than another scare issue for the dems, much like social security and health care. However, your argument about Iran's army requiring an actual engagement is the same argument that was put forth about Iraq's army after the initial attack. The fact is neither would be an effort to remove. Keep in mind they fought each other to a stalemate for 8 years. The only people talking up Iran are Iran and liberal pundits that hate the military.
You are resorting to the first line defense of "all socialism is bad". Social security is socialism, so is
Medicare. Unless you are one of the rare few, I doubt you can/want to support your elders financialy until their end. John McCain supports this sort of socilalism.

This country has been under the threat of terrorism since the 1960's (not counting the anarchist attacks during the 1880's-1890's, which could also be considered terrorism) [and also not counting the "terrorist" attacks that were the revolutionary war.. love for country should have also applied to the revolutionaries, by your blind application.. God Save the King].

Living in fear of terrorists is how they win, or so Bush 43 said. You could die in a horrible car accident tomorrow, but you shouldn't fear it. We should be showing the "terrorist" people that we are good and decent.

It is impossible to say, with a straight face, that you wish "death to America" while at the same time welcoming its aid and support. Time is the only solution to this problem, similar to the racism of the ~-1960s fading with generations born after.

If we give aid and comfort to struggling nations, without being so overbearing, we will swing them to the ways of democracy. But it CANNOT be forced.

[edit] I forgot your mention of a draft. It is NOT a straw dog. I am all for a draft if national security calls for it, if this nation needs more fighting people for its wars. Politics do not mean squat when the nations needs call for defense. In times of need a draft is not political, but rational. When such a day arises I will support a draft, but not for wars of choice.

There was a time when our nation did not strike first and ask questions later.. I want to live in such a time again, and my future children.
[/edit]
 
B

Bennos Morales

Guest
Actually China has a progressive dictatorship.. in the past 10 years they have moved towards capitalism. Everyone cries for democracy yet when Palestine elected Hamas they cried foul. Democracy is not for everyone.. the people need to be ready for such responsibility. One of the US's founding fathers (Damn I wish I remembered who, I loved the letter) said that the US should be a beacon of light, and not force democracy onto anyone; let them see that it is the best.

Bush 41 saw the necessity of "buffer states". Iraq kept Iran in check.. stability in the middle east was assured by the constant threat of war, similar to the cold war reality of stability due to the threat of mutual annhiliation. Saddam was the only middle east leader to allow women full participation in the political and job sector. Despite his iron-fist rule he was fairly progressive, he wanted the best of the best no matter the sex or religion (secularism was enforced).

Forcing anyone to do anything is the worst way to go. Debate and the promise of convincing always win.

The only reason the US hasn't tried forcing China to go democratic is that we saw the failure of that policy in Russia and Vietnam. Nixon saw that befriending a people, no matter their beliefs, and casually letting them see the benefits of democracy, would turn them.

China is an oxymoron waiting to happen.. capitalist yet communist. One side will win.

Democracy is for all. Those who say it's not are nder control of someone they are in fear of. China is a great example btw. The children working for the big buisnesses are not part of democracy...they are manipulated in their own environments because of the government wanting their cut. Democracy works!

One war at a time.....
 
O

Ole Cheapy

Guest
Not even close. The old quote about not arguing with an idiot because they will drag you down and beat you with experience really applies here. This country is doomed.
I truly wished that I believed you were set against Obama being president for logical reasons other than skin color, but it makes me sad for the future of our kids that I don't.
 
B

Bennos Morales

Guest
I truly wished that I believed you were set against Obama being president for logical reasons other than skin color, but it makes me sad for the future of our kids that I don't.
Our kids will be fine if they keep everyone and his brother/sister/partner out of their education. If they do that, the future is wide open..if not it is as you say sad and very bleak.
 
S

Sweeney

Guest
Democracy is for all. Those who say it's not are nder control of someone they are in fear of. China is a great example btw. The children working for the big buisnesses are not part of democracy...they are manipulated in their own environments because of the government wanting their cut. Democracy works!

One war at a time.....
Democracy is not for all.. the people must be ready for it. You ignored my Palestine reference, they democratically elected Hamas, a terrorist organization.

You say I am in fear of China? Where is such evidence? I am only in fear of a world where totalitarian fears rule the minorities with an iron fist. You are advocating Democracy at all costs, which fits more with a strike first ask questions later philospophy.
 
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Bennos Morales

Guest
Democracy is for all. Those who say it's not are nder control of someone they are in fear of. China is a great example btw. The children working for the big buisnesses are not part of democracy...they are manipulated in their own environments because of the government wanting their cut. Democracy works!

One war at a time.....
Democracy is not for all.. the people must be ready for it. You ignored my Palestine reference, they democratically elected Hamas, a terrorist organization.

You say I am in fear of China? Where is such evidence? I am only in fear of a world where totalitarian fears rule the minorities with an iron fist. You are advocating Democracy at all costs, which fits more with a strike first ask questions later philospophy.
Palestine, did they ever get a country?

I never said you were in fear of China. I said "under control of someone they are in fear of" unless you are living in China.

and Sweeny, i'm in favor of everyone being treated equal, in the traditional sense.
 

Shh!

Lore Master
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Saddam was the only middle east leader to allow women full participation in the political and job sector. Despite his iron-fist rule he was fairly progressive, he wanted the best of the best no matter the sex or religion (secularism was enforced).
I'm guessing the women in the **** rooms would disagree with your "progressive" statement.

Forcing anyone to do anything is the worst way to go. Debate and the promise of convincing always win.
I'd agree with you for the most part. However, people like Iran's president (no way I try to spell it and I'm too lazy to look it up) cannot be reasoned with. What do you do when you have a leader of a country who is insane? All he wants is the destruction of freedom. As long as we are free, we cannot exist. Screw putting democracy in his country, I want him dead.

China is an oxymoron waiting to happen.. capitalist yet communist. One side will win.
I'll paraphrase a quote from a high-ranking Chinese military official, "The last 100 years of the west's prosperity is a mistake we are about to correct." Some people want to sit down and talk things out with people like him and Mr. President from Iran. I think that's a huge mistake.
 

Shh!

Lore Master
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You are resorting to the first line defense of "all socialism is bad". Social security is socialism, so is
Medicare. Unless you are one of the rare few, I doubt you can/want to support your elders financialy until their end. John McCain supports this sort of socilalism.
99.99999% of socialism IS bad. I do NOT support SS or Medicare or state sponsored hand outs of ANY kind. Anyone can see what the government has done with SS. The debate about its original intent aside, SS is an abject failure. Why? Because the government is in charge of it! Do you honestly think SS will be there when you retire (depending on your age, I guess)? NO!!! It will bankrupt our country because no one can even mention it without the other side trying to scare old people into thinking they'll be eating dog food and living in the streets. The answer is simple: get the government out of the business of running institutions and handling social programs. Instead, have them set up guidelines for the private sector to handle it.

This country has been under the threat of terrorism since the 1960's (not counting the anarchist attacks during the 1880's-1890's, which could also be considered terrorism) [and also not counting the "terrorist" attacks that were the revolutionary war.. love for country should have also applied to the revolutionaries, by your blind application.. God Save the King].
Guerrilla warfare, while not exactly commendable, is hardly terrorism and you know it. Killing combatants during war is not comparable to flying a plane into a building, blowing up innocent children on a bus, or beheading journalists on tv. The threat of terrorism in this country was taken to a whole new level while the idiot pacifists were all trying to talk to the animals who would sacrifice their own children to cause terror. You can't reason with monsters.

Living in fear of terrorists is how they win, or so Bush 43 said. You could die in a horrible car accident tomorrow, but you shouldn't fear it. We should be showing the "terrorist" people that we are good and decent.
No, we shouldn't because that is what brought us to this point. All bets were off after 9/11. The "terrorist" people (as you call them) ripped up their "citizens of the world" cards when they decided they would rather blow people up than talk. Oh, and there's a big difference between living in fear and ignoring the problem. If I know there's a man with a gun trying to get in my house, I don't just sit around and enjoy life til he gets in. I prepare to shoot his ass as soon as he walks in.

It is impossible to say, with a straight face, that you wish "death to America" while at the same time welcoming its aid and support.
Are you kidding? That's EXACTLY what 1/2 the world has been doing for 100 years. As long as we're stupid enough to try to buy them off, they'll take it. Why cut their nose off to spite their face? You want to pay for infrastructure and have money for alternative energies? Stop paying 3rd world thugs to pretend they like us and there's your money.

If we give aid and comfort to struggling nations, without being so overbearing, we will swing them to the ways of democracy. But it CANNOT be forced.
How many years have we been giving money to Saudi Arabia?

[edit] I forgot your mention of a draft. It is NOT a straw dog. I am all for a draft if national security calls for it, if this nation needs more fighting people for its wars. Politics do not mean squat when the nations needs call for defense. In times of need a draft is not political, but rational. When such a day arises I will support a draft, but not for wars of choice.
I agree. My point was there will NOT be a draft if we went to war with Iran. It just won't happen. THAT is a straw dog. It is political suicide and besides that, it's not necessary.

There was a time when our nation did not strike first and ask questions later.. I want to live in such a time again, and my future children.
[/edit]
That time is past, thanks to 9/11. This is a different world. We cannot sit back and let others dictate to us how we are going to live. We cannot sit back and be willing targets for terrorists. We cannot be complacent, naive, nor victims. The time for us to sit around in a big circle and sing kumbayah is over. I am thankful that we have SOME people that understand this and are willing to fight to preserve this country for my children.
 

Shh!

Lore Master
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I truly wished that I believed you were set against Obama being president for logical reasons other than skin color, but it makes me sad for the future of our kids that I don't.
And I truly wish you could give me a single good reason to vote for him other than he is black. Being the first black presidential candidate does not make you qualified, sorry. He's a pile of ****, plain and simple. And what makes me sad is people like you diluting the issues by whipping out the race card and trying to bully people with it. Someday, the PC bull**** that you preach will end up biting you in the ass.
 

Pestilence Hemp

Journeyman
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funny most of you are voting for lesser of evils, and dont even like the guy your backing. Did it ever occur to any of you to vote for a third party? everyone says its a wasted vote, but is it really? i feel the vote for obama or mcCan is a wasted vote.
Neither one of these guys are "good for the job"
we need to go back to forcing someone to be president(someone that is hesitant about taking the position). People that want these positions are never there to help. or if the are, they quickly become corrupted!
 

Pestilence Hemp

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I am thankful that we have SOME people that understand this and are willing to fight to preserve this country for my children.
wow. way to think small.

last time i checked this was a planet, not a continent.

statements like this, show exactly why this world is in a state of peril.

Its also a great example of why know one seems to be taking your opinion seriously.
 
O

Ole Cheapy

Guest
I truly wished that I believed you were set against Obama being president for logical reasons other than skin color, but it makes me sad for the future of our kids that I don't.
And I truly wish you could give me a single good reason to vote for him other than he is black. Being the first black presidential candidate does not make you qualified, sorry. He's a pile of ****, plain and simple. And what makes me sad is people like you diluting the issues by whipping out the race card and trying to bully people with it. Someday, the PC bull**** that you preach will end up biting you in the ass.

Actually I wanted Mrs. Clinton to win this election, and like Hillary, I will continue to support the democratic party. And i think Obama has better knowledge of the problems in this country and is better suited to fix them than Mccain. And besides, no one with a temper like mccain needs to have the power to start a nuclear war. Period. Shall I continue?
 

Shh!

Lore Master
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wow. way to think small.

last time i checked this was a planet, not a continent.

statements like this, show exactly why this world is in a state of peril.

Its also a great example of why know one seems to be taking your opinion seriously.
See my comment about sitting around singing kumbayah. I don't know what color the sky is in your world but there are actually people in this world that hate you because you have the right to say and do what you want. They want you dead just because of that. Thankfully, not everyone is as oblivious as you. The world is in a "state of peril" because too many people like you stuck their collective heads in the sand for too long and allowed insanity to run rampant. Were you even alive during the cold war?
 

Shh!

Lore Master
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funny most of you are voting for lesser of evils, and dont even like the guy your backing. Did it ever occur to any of you to vote for a third party? everyone says its a wasted vote, but is it really? i feel the vote for obama or mcCan is a wasted vote.
Neither one of these guys are "good for the job"
we need to go back to forcing someone to be president(someone that is hesitant about taking the position). People that want these positions are never there to help. or if the are, they quickly become corrupted!
Agree 100%.
 

Shh!

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
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Actually I wanted Mrs. Clinton to win this election, and like Hillary, I will continue to support the democratic party. And i think Obama has better knowledge of the problems in this country and is better suited to fix them than Mccain. And besides, no one with a temper like mccain needs to have the power to start a nuclear war. Period. Shall I continue?
No, you should stop. You've already proven your ignorance on a wide array of topics. Now you are just venturing into ridiculousness like most of your ilk are apt to do.
 

Shh!

Lore Master
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I will disagree with you as far as the "This country is doomed" comment. Sure we'll go down for awhile, but we will recover. Unless they start feeding christians to the lions again...*shrugs*
As long as public schools continue to turn out people like Sweeney (no offense at all, you're a decent guy...just don't know how else to put that) and as long as people like Cheapy continue to try to use fear and political correctness to spread their ignorance, this country is doomed. "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" was uttered by a Democrat. Do you honestly see any Democrats acting this way any longer? Republicans? Anyone? No. Most people are in it for themselves, country be damned.

"Tolerance & apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." -- Aristotle

Folks, we have arrived.
 

Shh!

Lore Master
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It's apparent to me that this thread has become pointless. If we don't agree on the fundamentals (religious basis for our Constitution, American exceptionalism, capitalism, American sovereignty, etc) then arguing about the finer points are a waste of time, no?

If Obama wins, I won't threaten to move out of the country like a lot of libs did when Bush won. If McCain wins, I will throw up a little in my mouth but I will sleep a little easier knowing that the end is approaching less quickly.

To those of you that truly love this country, we have the same goal if not the same approach. To those of you that hate it and want us knocked down a few pegs because we don't "deserve" what we have, watch your back. Remember the pendulum swings back just as hard.
 
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