They're gonna do what to cheaters?

[Old Man of UO]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/spelt
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/spelt
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/spelt

Ahh... okay, you're correct on that. My dictionaries didn't include that, and I was familiar with the plant usage.

And I see that you (or another Moderator) deleted the offensive post. Thank you.

 

[G.v.P]

Some things Cal and team can do to cheaters I didn't see yet:

-Add a [Cheater] tag to all vendors owned by that account, or all vendors placed at a cheater-owned house
-Remove ability for account to get BOD deeds with response, "I do not deal with cheaters!"
-Like someone else said, remove ability to ride any mount in the game

And on second offense, a 30-day ban, and third, perma ban

 

[DENNAR]

I find it funny how people come on here and BASH scripting because people use it for skills and supplies, But they are damned happy to be paying 10gp per iron ingots, instead of 50.


Or how about those vendor search websites we all have become so fond of? Get rid of them? Yeah right, Lets get real people. How about A vendor search option instead of boosting the ridiculous idea of factions and battle arenas, how stupid of an idea, They will be Bare in one month.

Is scripting Hurting the game? No, the first issue is that it never should of got like this, Most of these programs and process were allowed to walk with an unseen eye, they became an "excepted" part of UO, now there is going to be a warning, which will set things right for a bit, but I would venture to say that 90% of all UO players use a script or a "loop type program".

Did scripting make players go away? Maybe I mean there is so many variables in a players life that, to press the button "as that one single event" I dont know.

Uo and scripting is like Peanut butter and chocolate , they are always good together and have no plans of separating.

Yes scripting is hurting the game--the 10 gold ingot your talking about actually translates out to a hundred million scripter bank account and then some. That scripter then bids at auctions or to players they will buy a nice item at 100 times what the HONEST player can afford to pay. So while you mention the 10 gold ingot you fail to mention the 100 million gold Artifact. So if your going to use your logic make sure to go to both ends of the scale on what effect scripting has on the game.

 

[DENNAR]

You know folks, there is one viewpoint EA may have on most of the cheating done in game. How many non-cheating players does it directly affect?

My Crafter/Foragers are affected by the search program in that having vendors whose wares are not listed on it means that your vendors will rarely sell anything, making them nothing more than a gold sink through vendor fees.

Script mining means I can't sell the ingots I gather by playing for an amount to make the time of doing the mining worth it. I mine now & then to keep my Crafter's material stocks up, and thats about it. Same for the other resources. The Library Talisman thing gave a use for the piles I had.

Speedhacking has no direct effect on my play. I don't PvP and rarely go to Fel because my PK experiences back in the UO:Ren, UO:AoS days soured me on Fel.

Duping? The duping of Rares doesn't directly affect me since I don't collect them.

Duping? of uber-weapons and armor before Imbuing came along, did affect my play. EA had to make new monsters superpowered to give the crying uber-gear children something they couldn't kill by not much more than riding up to it. Made my normal gear play a lot rougher.

Duping? of gold has driven prices theough the roof. I imagine new players must love getting 130 gold pieces off their kills, knowing the item on that vendor they think would be neat to have costs 164,999,417 gold pieces.

EA, face facts, the game is bleeding players due to cheating. Bite the Bullet and castrate the cheating problem and let the cheaters go, or just stop making promises to deal with cheating, stfu, and let the players sick of cheating keep leaving. Hopefully for your jobs, the fear-mongers are right and there will actually be enough cheaters left to keep the game profitable.

Very well said. Cheating hurts so many different things. It made me leave UO and close 10 accounts.

 

[Yalp]

Like everyone else, I'm still waiting for actual action on illegal 3rd party detection/anti-cheating instead of the talking.. talking.. talking.. talking some more about it from EA/Mythic. I don't believe for a second anything will actually be done... other than the talking talking more talking. But I hope to be proven wrong.

I am also very interested to know how they will re-level the playing field.. since cheaters have been benefiting from their cheating actions for so long. It's like telling people like Bernie Maddoff that they know he's cheating, but letting him keep his ill-gotten gains at the same time.

 

[Lady Storm]

Some of you get it some of you dont....

Cal is right, just wait and see. JUST...

Ok you seen he does have a list of offenders, and by the wording its not a small list, so....
as he said the first wave will be warnings. This in itself is a telling effect that "the Gods have seen you doing a no no"

As he said the second wave will entail "fun" . Might I remind you of "Fun Dev Style?"
I am sure this will entail something so you will see the party who has been caught "red" handed.

In the past partys who were caught had accounts shut off perma, but as we all know WE DONT HAVE THE POPULATION if said bannings went on. PERIOD.

It would cost us the game if everyone you find who has used a 3rd party program in the last 6 months got perma baned.
Its not a small list out there any more. Remember this will include small 3rd partys down to the super slick ones. Personaly some are not threats.
We dont have a list of 3rds that are a no no. We do have ideas what could be.... so with that here goes.

Now to discribe "FUN" dev style......

Imagine the word in big red letters over the players head anouncing his or her cheating, who will play with said player??? I can tell you in the past the big letter A on a womans forehead did brand her in eyes of all others a cheater.. why not in a game. Thats an idea...

Third could be loss of all in game property, ie: house, arties, everything but the char's physical form, strait death robe dressed. (this would after the first account be added to linked accounts if continued)

Forth could be a gradual loss of stats and skill points for every remaining offence. IE:
Example:warrior 120 in most skills is reduced to gm and all scrolls read no longer apply to that char. Meaning the warrion would need to reread all skill scrolls to get back to 120 and do the work.
If they continue to flaunt the system the next tier could be a extra 25% drop in skills and again the scrolls would need to be again redone. Setting them to 80 skill points in each skill.

Next would be same as the rest but with a perma loss of use of any scroll, 50% drop in skills.
(Side note here: I doubt any player would get this far before they toss up their hands and create a new char or account. These people are cheaters not idiots. No one in their right mind would continue past the first reduction in skills. Much less the loss of all their property they faught so hard to get in the first place.)

Mind you this is all hypothetical... based on past Dev events that have set houses a blaze distroying contents... effagees of the player on a stake in the middle of the blaze.

You all Demand Justice. Think of what you are asking for. Alot of the players you felt used these cheats are gone, whats left are the fools who dont think the dev got teeth to do anything. Well as Cal so rightfully said.... Let the FUN begin. I never said I didnt see the bright side of things.

 

[canary]

Lady Storm, not only do you wear INSANELY bright rose colored glasses, you mentioned 3rd part apps BY NAME which is a big stratics no no. You may want to edit your post, dear.

 

[hen]

Cheats should of course have their accounts permanently banned.

However this should be handled in a manner fitting to the Ultima world that we inhabit.

1. The characters of each account of the evil cheaters shall be beheaded at Nujelm and the baying mob shall each receive a sash that says "I attended the Nujelm public executions".

2. The proceeds of these evil-doers shall be used to build a hospital for the nice animals in Skara Brae.

3. The heads of these pathetic lowlife miscreants shall be put on stakes and they shalll line the road between Britain and Trinsic as a permanent reminder to the populace that if you cheat you will have your comeuppance.

 

[Taylor]

I'd totally attend a public execution.

 

[Lady Storm]

It was a idea of the soft side of UO justice. I expect people to be roasted and flailed on stakes outside luna the way most here are posting. The way you all put it. You want blood unless its your blood. I know alot of the original cheaters I have seen over the years no longer play UO.

 

[Taylor]

It was a idea of the soft side of UO justice. I expect people to be roasted and flailed on stakes outside luna the way most here are posting. The way you all put it. You want blood unless its your blood. I know alot of the original cheaters I have seen over the years no longer play UO.

So, would you mind stating your proposed solution in a sentence or two?

 

[Evlar]

A three strike system would seem best to me.

1 - Official warning.

2 - Character deletion. (Including whatever items happen to be on the character, or in their bank.)

3 - Permanent ban of account.

 

[StaticOnAtlantic]

Yes scripting is hurting the game--the 10 gold ingot your talking about actually translates out to a hundred million scripter bank account and then some. That scripter then bids at auctions or to players they will buy a nice item at 100 times what the HONEST player can afford to pay. So while you mention the 10 gold ingot you fail to mention the 100 million gold Artifact. So if your going to use your logic make sure to go to both ends of the scale on what effect scripting has on the game.

Scripters are making money but if you add time/money actually spent on accounts its not worth it. You figure a script miner can Mine on one account per week about 300-500k of iron, and the rest obvious lower, then about 100 of each gem. Thats really nothing per week. Atlantic Iron is at lowest 9gp-9.5 @ 60k of iron thats 900-950k, So just under a mill, Now you multiply accounts, and there you go.

ITS no where near what you think scripters actually make for the prices they charge, Of course Understanding logic, consume and demand, the market is flooded with supplies.

Scripting adds supplies into the market, which in turn at times can lower prices, But in others It can be inflated. But to say SCRIPTING is the 100% reason for high arti prices, is F'ing crazy. You mix player base (Population per shard) and Demand/supply thats what determines prices.

 

[Lady Storm]

So, would you mind stating your proposed solution in a sentence or two?

Simply.

1.) humiliation to be seen in public
2.) removal of property-all of it
3.) removal of stats & skills *including power scrolls and skill scrolls
4.) reduction of skills to beginner lvls
clear enough?

 

[StaticOnAtlantic]

Simply.

1.) humiliation to be seen in public
Why, who cares that "XXXX" players is a scripter? We buy from them daily. Its a NAME and can be changed or altered, The only people who will be Effected are the "Demi gods in each of our shards which is a handful of people", no one cares.
2.) removal of property-all of it
So does that include the Money, that you used to Buy that bulk commodity?, or the trade of items?
3.) removal of stats & skills *including power scrolls and skill scrolls
simple enough.
4.) reduction of skills to beginner lvls
again simple enough.
clear enough?
maybe.

 

[Lady Storm]

Simply.

1.) humiliation to be seen in public
Why, who cares that "XXXX" players is a scripter? We buy from them daily. Its a NAME and can be changed or altered, The only people who will be Effected are the "Demi gods in each of our shards which is a handful of people", no one cares.
2.) removal of property-all of it
So does that include the Money, that you used to Buy that bulk commodity?, or the trade of items?
3.) removal of stats & skills *including power scrolls and skill scrolls
simple enough.
4.) reduction of skills to beginner lvls
again simple enough.
clear enough?
maybe.

Well #1. On many shards the cheaters are not known.. as they are not just in pvp..
and I am stating this to be on all chars on that account not just the one.
#2 Yes EVERYTHING gold, bank boxes, houses the whole lot

 

[Taylor]

So, would you mind stating your proposed solution in a sentence or two?

Simply.

1.) humiliation to be seen in public
2.) removal of property-all of it
3.) removal of stats & skills *including power scrolls and skill scrolls
4.) reduction of skills to beginner lvls
clear enough?

1. Couldn't this include public execution - e.g., burning/flailing outside of Luna?
2. Hmm, I'd rather "ill-begotten property", as opposed to all of it.
3. - 4. Ok, I could get behind that.

 

[Beer_Cayse]

agreed. a slap on the wrist will do NOTHING ... take about 100 or so of the blatant ones out of commission "hard, fast and ugly". advertise with Draconi-style fires and explosions of housing, removal of possessions and total erasure (yes, erasure not closure) of accounts. then I bet the remainder wake up fast.

 

[Lady Storm]

So, would you mind stating your proposed solution in a sentence or two?

Simply.

1.) humiliation to be seen in public
2.) removal of property-all of it
3.) removal of stats & skills *including power scrolls and skill scrolls
4.) reduction of skills to beginner lvls
clear enough?

1. Couldn't this include public execution - e.g., burning/flailing outside of Luna?
2. Hmm, I'd rather "ill-begotten property", as opposed to all of it.
3. - 4. Ok, I could get behind that.

Well............. you could do that on #1 and do expect something close.
#2 no has to be stern property can be gotten again... drop their stuff in bank box on ground when they access account at random bank, drop their house instant -no waiting 3 months or more, all items worn drop to ground when entery to a bank.. they cant pick back up. hehe

 

[StaticOnAtlantic]

Well #1. On many shards the cheaters are not known.. as they are not just in pvp..

Well we all know that they span in every profession. But who cares about the "cheat" tag, I mean honestly no one does, Its not going to stop people buying from them. just because they have a possible (cheat) tag. I mean its simple economics, If An item on a (cheat) vendor is 60k compared to a non (cheat) vendor and the item is 120k its simple to see whos going to get the $$$.


And your argument fails to target the REAL issue. Heres the Issue that is at the heart of this and this is why its so hard to "Effectively" target this issue.

A scripter lets say has 5 accounts, 1 main 4 atls. 4 Accounts script mine, Those alt accounts mean nothing. Main account moves all goods from other 4 to main 1 to sell.

SO 4 alt accounts have (cheat) tag the real issue account looks golden.

 

[Macrophage]

I m reading this interesting thread and some people seem to completely miss a truth about this game. We are all complices to ressource scripters. Either we use scripts to get ressources ourselves, or buy scripted ressources.
Who spends 40 hours clicking to get the 10 rare gems of the same type he needs to craft ONE item. If you dont feel cheating because you bought those gems, then I m sure that in 99% of the cases the people who sold them to you scripted them.
Now about skill buildings. We old timers have spent 12 years + raising our skills. While it s being fun and very rewarding the first times, it s almost unbearable to do the same thing over and over again for hours or days long. For many, it s either stop playing or use scripts to build skills. When I say many, it s absolutely all people I know tbh.

When you dig it a bit, scripting doesnt really give you an unfair advantage amongst others, besides allowing you to play 24/24, since scripting doesnt allow you to do impossible things.

I am a bit advocate of scripting, it s the only thing that saved this game for so long.

Now don t get me wrong, I am a bit advocate of scripting, but I m not confused between scripting and cheating. Scripting is just an automation of allowed sequences. Cheating is doing things that you couldn t do normally: casting at fc 10 speed, casting while moving, running faster on feet than anyone on horse, running through solid items, and, to some extend, scripting when pvping or even pvming (provided the scripts faster than what your brain would be). For those cheaters, I really think a public execution in nujel m would suit them well.

 

[popps]

Forget this entire argument altogether you are talking about a game thats graphics are based off of a game that was created in 1992 for those who don't know (Ultima 7 The Black Gate) Even using the Enhanced Client the game is not GREAT / AWESOME Eye Candy. If you aren't going to revamp the way in which players advance the characters then don't get mad because people don't wanna spend 12 a month for a game that is more work then the 8 hours they spend paying for it at REAL LIFE JOB!!!

Likewise, I am 38 - work full time and have 2 children, 3rd is on it's way.

However, this is no way is a justification for me to cheat. If your lifestyle has changed then you need to change how you play and determine what is important to you.

All games have a somewhat time-consuming resource gathering time-sink. Based on your comment I would take for granted that you cheat in those as well since you think it's your right to do so.

Cheating is what has largely destroyed this game, it is why I no longer play - it is why many people gave up. The soul of this game has been corrupted and it cannot be healed.

If you do not have the time, patience or will to train up a difficult skill - well here is a novel concept for you - don't do it. No one says you have to and it doesn't give you an open door to cheat because you have "less time" than someone with less commitments.

Cheaters need to be dealt with swiftly and severely. Only under those circumstances will you ever see a tangible increase in players returning to the game. Only under those circumstances will you see long term success.


Over time many have developed a severe case of OCD, where they think they have to have 1 of everything, be able to kill everyone and be able to single handedly take on any challenge in the game. Sadly, cheating has allowed them to accomplish most of this much to the detriment of the game.

Read. Absorb. Re-evaluate.

My personal opinion, is that perhaps if players thought it not necessary to be 100% self sufficient in their game play (i.e. gather all of the resources they need, craft all the wares they need and so forth), then perhaps the need to script would be felt less.

Do not have the time or the will to gather resources ? Buy them.

Cannot find the time to train up all crafters needed in the game ? Buy the wares from those who choose to play crafters.

The issue is NOT that of not having enough time to do all in the game.

The issue is accepting that the game is too vast and that it is acceptable not to do everything and that whatever might be needed but one cannot self-supply, can be bought from other players.......

At that point, one can enjoy playing UO the way one prefers regardless of the little time one may have to play it.

Anti-cheat and anti-script code is VERY important because it makes the game more enjoyable for those who actually want to gather resources, build crafts and so forth actually playing the game, not scripting the actions.

 

[popps]

Or how about those vendor search websites we all have become so fond of? Get rid of them?

The vendor search sites kill the business or reduce it a whole lot for anyone who does not have vendors within the script area covered.

That is, it hurts other players' playing because potential buyers are much less likely to visit their vendors.

Is scripting Hurting the game? No, the first issue is that it never should of got like this,

I disagree. I think that yes, it has hurt the game and a whole lot.

For example, the resource gathering via scripting has made it so that it effectively devalued the time spent by those other players who gathered resources without scripts.
Or did Bulk Order Deeds, or Library collectibles and so forth.

If a scripter can get resources, BODs, Library items 24/7 they can of course under sell any player who, instead, has been using their playing time to gather them without scripting.

Basically, scripting puts other players who do not script out of business.
They cannot play the game doing what they like in the game because scripters do not use their playing time for those actions, they have scripts doing it for them.

Oh yes, scripting does hurt the game, IMHO.

Did scripting make players go away? Maybe I mean there is so many variables in a players life that, to press the button "as that one single event" I dont know.

Well, over the time I played the game I have had friends I played with who told me they had enough and that they were leaving the game because of the rampant cheating.

I myself, have been very close to close my account because of cheating and I did take time off (though leaving my account as active) because I could no longer play a game where other players where using various forms of cheating to advance in it.

Uo and scripting is like Peanut butter and chocolate , they are always good together and have no plans of separating.

I do not see no good from cheating. None.

 

[popps]

Some things Cal and team can do to cheaters I didn't see yet:

-Add a [Cheater] tag to all vendors owned by that account, or all vendors placed at a cheater-owned house
-Remove ability for account to get BOD deeds with response, "I do not deal with cheaters!"
-Like someone else said, remove ability to ride any mount in the game

And on second offense, a 30-day ban, and third, perma ban

I actually like these ideas, particularly the vendors' Tag and the BODs refused to cheaters.

Though, there is something else which was overlooked, I think.

Remember FROSTWOOD ??

Who had the largest caches of Frostwood when the Library Collectibles were introduced into the game ?

Scripters.

Therefore, having TONS of frostwood they were able to get most of the new library collectibles, glasses, talismans and so forth, very easily and sell them for tens of millions.

They made huge fortunes.

Now, when scripting will be stopped nowdays (as I hope it will be...), the prices for resources, BODs and else gathered through scripting will go up since from now on players will have to actually invest their valuable playing time to gather them.

The problem I have is, that all the resources, BODs and so forth gathered by scripters will now become more valuable because prices will go up.

Meaning, that scripters will benefit largely, at least initially, from the end of scripting UNLESS something is done to the large caches of resources, BODs and so forth gotten through scripting.

So, stopping scripting is good, but in order to avoid scripters to benefit from scripting being stopped something ALSO must be done to the large stocks of whatever has already been gotten through scripting.

Perhaps, and this is what I hope, this is why the Developers have been monitoring now for quite some time cheating activity, so that they can then act most effectively towards those accounts that have been found cheating.

Or, at least, so I hope.........

 

[Lady Storm]

popps you say buy it... how does one buy if the price is so high you need 6 hours of game hunting/gold gathering to buy a few ingots,wood,gems? etc..

Times have changed from the opening of the first days of UO. 10k gold was a fortune. Now? I saw a single leggings sell for 55mill.... there is no stopping it. Prices will continue to go up as long as the items are "rare" and cheating will too in that respect. I'm with one forum member, scripting is not a bad thing, we all use it in some form. Most times it the legal kind in game. Its what scripts that is used that is the trouble.

Cheating - its the big deal.

Most players nowadays are working and time is tight when you got a wife/hubby to spend quality time with along with the kids. House chores to do, friends to keep in touch with. Thats Real Life and it comes first. UO dead last.

This is a game and you all are treating it as if its Real Life and you are the revolutioners who will dole out the justice. Hang Em! Chop off a head! Ban them!!

Do you hang your friends or family if they cheat at monopoly??
no
Do you kill your neighbor for scripting a short cut for use at work?
no
Real life you can deal with it but in a game ..... you all loose it. I have seen more anger over this pixel crack then I have over a real life political scandal of cheating!

Yes the Dev will deal with the 3rd party users. Thats good.
Do you have a say? No. Why get angry over this. Just let it come and be happy they did something to stop it.

 

[popps]

I am also very interested to know how they will re-level the playing field.. since cheaters have been benefiting from their cheating actions for so long.

I am also interested in knowing what the Developers want to do about this.

Definately, letting the scripters keep the large fortunes be them resources, BODs, gold or whatever gotten through scripting is not much of a way to punish cheating.

Cheating must be stopped, this is the first step and a very important one.

But there is also a second step which involves what to do about what the scripters got through scripting......

 

[popps]

popps you say buy it... how does one buy if the price is so high you need 6 hours of game hunting/gold gathering to buy a few ingots,wood,gems? etc..

Times have changed from the opening of the first days of UO. 10k gold was a fortune. Now? I saw a single leggings sell for 55mill.... there is no stopping it. Prices will continue to go up as long as the items are "rare" and cheating will too in that respect. I'm with one forum member, scripting is not a bad thing, we all use it in some form. Most times it the legal kind in game. Its what scripts that is used that is the trouble.

Well, I have seen Event items sold for many millions and usually, it ain't that difficult to participate to most Events. Most players can do it.

Now we have Treasure Chests giving tens of thousands of gps aside from the other items.

There are ways to make gold to buy needed things, it is not necessary that a player should feel free to script to be 100% self sufficient.

This is a multi-player game meaning, that we should not be able to do everything on our own but have to rely on others and their game play wherever possible.

That's at least how I see it.

 

[LordDrago]

Do you hang your friends or family if they cheat at monopoly??
no

Hang them? No. We confiscated all their properties, money, and game piece, and banned them from the game. Of course, we let them come back in to play later on, but we scrutinized all of their playing to ensure they did not cheat again (they didn't, to the best of my knowledge)

Do you kill your neighbor for scripting a short cut for use at work?
no

Kill them? Again no. But, I did fire 2 agents and a dispatcher who were using "bots" to clock out of work at the end of the day (long story, but essentially, 2 would leave work up to an hour early each day, and the third would clock the other two out at their correct clock out times). Essentially, they received lifetime bans (although one ban was lifted after about two weeks after the offender admitted in a hearing what they had done....the other two refused to admit it and remained perma-banned). Ahhhh the fond memories

 

[Luke Carjacker]

I have an issue with the people who are saying that without scripters, we'd be left with no mining gems, or no frostwood boards, or something along those lines. The simple fact is that the drop rates on these types of gathered resources are necessarily low BECAUSE of scripters. If scripters were effectively eliminated from the game, they could increase the drop rates on these desirable items so that regular players could experience the benefits of mining, lumberjacking, etc. As it stands (and as others have pointed out), it makes no sense for non-scripters to partake in these resource gathering activities because their time is completely marginalized by scripters.

And the discussion seems to get getting confused between the resource gathering cheaters and the PvP cheaters. Humiliating resource gathering cheaters does nothing; these people are out in the middle of nowhere 24-7 anyways. Humiliating PvP cheaters does have some effect as a first step. At the very least it will shut them up over general chat about how they're just great PvPers.

But eventually, on both counts, punishment with some measurable consequences is really a must.

For resource gatherers, I think there are 2 important components. Target their ill-gotten property, and make it a pain for them to continue their activities. I support the deletion of property - but that can be tough to trace. They could just dump their resources, proceeds and valuables into an account that does no cheating, so that could be a challenge. In terms of making it more difficult for them to continue cheating, loss of skill or some sort of monster or plague that afflicts them while using a script sounds pretty good. Eventually, cheaters that refuse to quit need to be dealt with harshly, either banned or hit with punishments that force them to stop/quit.

For PvP, I honestly don't think most people would quit if playing were if cheating were punished or eliminated - I think a lot of people cheat because they know they can get away with it. In truth, a lot of cheaters would still be excellent PvPers if prevented from cheating, they cheat because they can. My take is that apparently, they are able to detect 3rd part programs, but have seem to have no way of banning them real-time; seems like they can only deal with them after the fact. So, if there's no way to prevent speedhacks & scripts as they happen, then punishment should target their ability to PvP. Loss of equipment can be a real pain; even in the age of imbuing, PvPers don't want to spend countless hours and resources gathering new gear all the time. Loss of skill would also be effective. If after a night of speed-hacking a cheater wakes up to find a 20% loss of skills, they'll think twice about going that route again. And finally, a permanent cap on stats or skills would force them to quit (or start a new account).

Just some ideas about what they can do. I really hope they're serious this time.

 

[Lady Storm]

I agree popps, Events and all are easy and to get someting worth having. But I like to do my own thing. Its nice to group up with friends and run a dungeon or 2. All my friends dont play uo now. They left years ago. Make new one? Have but not to the tune of the old ways they like to talk or trade but they have their own clicks and I am not in the mood to jump through hoops to get in that stuff any more. I am not alone. Many play solo. They dont want to GROUP up. Many have told of their soloing a boss. Its not uncommon for people to want to do it their way. Alone. I'd like to see where if you go in a dungeon alone the boss would ajust its power/hps to deal with 1 player.

but back to the topic... 14 years is enough cheating and stealing from others it needs to end.

 

[Picus of Napa]

I've scripted in the past and enjoyed it when needed. This all said the game could go both ways. Would I fancy training up a new mage or smith or imbuer? Heck no. During the big SA release I made a imbuer by hand and truthfully my wrist has never felt right since.

The biggest issue that I have with the current systems as it releates to the CC(this is the only client I play) is the lack of macros. Scripting takes care of this without my having to shell out a extra $15 bucks to some shmuck who wrote a program 10+ years back and has collected hundreds of thousands of dollars from UO players(lets just think he's sold 50K UOA at $15 = $750,000.00 and I'm sure it's more than that).

The dev team has, over the years, relied upon UOA to fill the void that a lack of an effective macro system left us players with. You can't even drink a heal pot with out it in the CC and this is after 11 years of release(only 11 because I believe you can do this in the EC). The release of the scripting program highlighted the grind of skill/item building and the lack of anything done about it over the same length of time only made it legal by default.

This is not a comment about the current dev team, I think they are doing a great job but lets just kill the whole scripting issue once and for all. 8+ years it's been widely used and I believe longer in a much smaller circle. Twice various teams have tried to kill it with a new client and twice that route failed. Give us content and make us buy more expansions as the latest one was by far the best this game has had since I bought a box with a cloth map and pewter pin inside.

The current player base just wants the issue closed, one way or the other but it seems to me that, by default, scripting is here to stay.

 

[Picus of Napa]

Now don t get me wrong, I am a bit advocate of scripting, but I m not confused between scripting and cheating. Scripting is just an automation of allowed sequences. Cheating is doing things that you couldn t do normally: casting at fc 10 speed, casting while moving, running faster on feet than anyone on horse, running through solid items, and, to some extend, scripting when pvping or even pvming (provided the scripts faster than what your brain would be). For those cheaters, I really think a public execution in nujel m would suit them well.

Just wanted to highlight this because after much reading, some research and watching gate based PVP I wanted to point out that you can indeed do a simple and legal change to each chars CFG file which allows one to run though some but not all of the fel based gravestones.

The desolation of fel looks much prettier when all the trees are back to pre-tram days.

 

[Llewen]

The current player base just wants the issue closed, one way or the other but it seems to me that, by default, scripting is here to stay.

Fine, if they want to do that they have to state explicitly that scripting is legal so that the honest players, and everyone else, are playing the same game. Right now the two groups are playing two different games and the honest players are being penalized for their honesty.

 

[popps]

The current player base just wants the issue closed, one way or the other but it seems to me that, by default, scripting is here to stay.

I sure hope otherwise, and that scripting is no longer going to be viable nor tolerated in Ultima Online.

I look forward to finally play, after so many years, an Ultima Online free of cheating, scripting included.

Now, the macroes allowed by the clients or the legal UOAssist are a total different thing.
They have nothing in common with scripting.

Macroes ease up game play, and rightfully so, but scripting allows to have the computer play the game on its own and this, I think, is not good for the game.

 

[shadowgate]

I personally think there needs to be a rollout where players are banned. Very publicly and in no uncertain terms give the message "if you cheat you'll get banned". Not on the first time offenders, but on the individuals each shard has who have made a career of cheating. Where EA looks at accounts where players have been reported numerous times in the past and with their new detection they know for sure they're cheating. Those players need to be hung out to dry and made an example of.


Wenchy

You simply do not get it! If you ban those players there WILL NOT BE ENOUGH people left with accounts that are paid for to keep the game going. The people who are still playing this game have been playing since it came out. Out of all the people I talk to on Great Lakes only I can't think of one person who hasn't used a "Illegal Third Party Program." So you go right ahead and think this way and I just pray they don't listen to people like you ,because if they do BYE BYE TO UO.

 

[shadowgate]

If you do not have the time, patience or will to train up a difficult skill - well here is a novel concept for you - don't do it. No one says you have to and it doesn't give you an open door to cheat because you have "less time" than someone with less commitments.

Cheaters need to be dealt with swiftly and severely. Only under those circumstances will you ever see a tangible increase in players returning to the game. Only under those circumstances will you see long term success.




Read. Absorb. Re-evaluate.

Again the player base of this game will without question if you ban the cheaters effectively put the game in the grave. I know the programs. I do not PVP! I don't need to use the programs. If you had read the entire thread. You would see I am making the argument that I am glad I do not have to raise my skills as my toons are at the 720 skill cap.

 

[R Traveler]

Read this

The first step is a warning, the next I think we will have a little fun with.

 

[Lord Chaos]

Fine, if they want to do that they have to state explicitly that scripting is legal so that the honest players, and everyone else, are playing the same game. Right now the two groups are playing two different games and the honest players are being penalized for their honesty.

How are we being penalized? We enjoy the game as it is, if we were penalized and we'd rather cheat, why don't you cheat? Or are you admitting to doing it?

Its a copout to say that you have it sooooo hard playing the game you say you love.

Or are you going to bring up that impossible super scripter that just came out of nowhere. rolleyesrolleyesrolleyes

 

[Fayled Dhreams]

Which "this argument" are you addressing?

You are not exactly being clear ....

There is NO NEED for a gentle "warning"

everyone got their warning when they clicked through the EULA "contract"

Thats the way the "game" is designed and played
and everyone AGREED to play to those conditions.

You realize of course ...
The game is played through massive amounts of clicking ...
yes?
And once you max the skills ... the clicking isn't done ... now is it?
You'll be a clicking your macro's and texting your dialogue
clicking your backpack open
and clicking an item
dragging and dropping it to some place else
be it a trade window, trashcan or decaying corpse ...

Just saying ...
IF you've no time left to be clicking through the game ...
You have Not the Time to be PLAYING the game ...

UO >is not< a "serious game" ... dude ...
at it's core ...

it is a time waster
that someone some where some when >made a living off of it<
'tis incidental ... tertiary and of mere tangental consequence

it is a time waster
all in all

elaborate doodling ... as it is

Speaking of mountains and mole-hills
post 14 dance's all around it

If I had to start over then I would no way play UO

why "no way"?
don't like the way the clickies are laid out?

Ultima does not have a TOS which provides them for the ability to do anything serious to players.

I disagree ... banning IS "pretty serious"
and clearly >provided for<

(c) Former Members. Members whose Accounts have been terminated by Electronic Arts may not access the Service in any manner or for any reason without the express written permission of Electronic Arts. Active Members may not knowingly allow former Members whose Accounts have been terminated to use the active Members' Accounts or User IDs.

Problem is ... cheaters never "quit" ... not really ... grow up ... maybe ... more often (when "gone" forever)
they just found a "better" more interesting


time waster

Ya see ...

they are playing a different game(see: Red Queen Hypothesis)
NOT the one "the good players" agreed to
They want to doit "their way"
Even the "creator" saw that conundrum
learn the parable of "RG and the Thief"

Heh!

Would you like to play a game?
if so

you lose ...

 

[G.v.P]

Remember FROSTWOOD ?? [...] having TONS of frostwood they (scripters) were able to get most of the new library collectibles, glasses, talismans and so forth, very easily and sell them for tens of millions

I bet you no one in this game has purchased barbed kits or powder of fort in the past without buying from at least one person who either bought ingots from someone who scripted or got the BODs from someone who scripted, and so on and so on. At one point, the odds of an ornament of the magician being duped were so high that if you saw one on a vendor you could likely assume it wasn't obtained from the Gauntlet. However, those days are long gone.

If you plug time into the Gauntlet, you are now guaranteed an arty. And with imbuing, the need for scripters falls off. Even the inquis is devalued now. Runics are still important for weapons, but really, the best gear in the game is Faction gear, and next to that, Navrey drops, artifacts, and then imbuing to fill in the rest. Without scripters we'd lose nothing now because the new stash of arties, Faction arties, and imbuing get you to your end game faster and with more precision than the RNG of a barbed kit and everything it takes to get one. Even a brand new 50.1 imbuer can imbue a 100% LRC suit to NPC stock leather armor. The grind is over.

 

[Tanivar]

Wonder if Cal is monitoring these topics to see who is pro-cheating and adding them to his Bad Little Boy List. Several have basically admitted to scripting. <chuckle> I wonder if scanning through old posts by those people might supply enough info to I.D. them in game.

Drop the Anti-cheating axe on the game Cal. Let heads roll if need be. Nail the 25 worst offenders on each shard and email the rest with a formal notice of their being on your Bad Little Boy List and may be in the next batch to go.

Public hangings & beheadings tended to get the point across to the population. Crime had a price you will pay if caught.

 

[the 4th man]

I'm not surprised......why not give them amnesty, like Obama.

 

[Wenchkin]

You simply do not get it! If you ban those players there WILL NOT BE ENOUGH people left with accounts that are paid for to keep the game going. The people who are still playing this game have been playing since it came out. Out of all the people I talk to on Great Lakes only I can't think of one person who hasn't used a "Illegal Third Party Program." So you go right ahead and think this way and I just pray they don't listen to people like you ,because if they do BYE BYE TO UO.

No, it's you who doesn't get it

If this is turned into yet another wishy washy wrist slapping exercise, players like myself will give up on EA and UO. The same players who've been walking out for a long time now, believing that EA don't care about managing their game properly. You might not care, but the day you login to find yourself surrounded by AFK bots, perhaps you'll wonder about the game you could be enjoying. And funny thing is, that situation will kill UO too. And what a shameful way for a game to die. Death by lazy players and crooks. You really think that's better? Wanna pay for a game where you can't even find a real player?

The alternative is that cheats are punished for once. By all means ban just a handful to make it clear what's coming. Give cheats time to fall in line then advance the bans to the next lot of persistent offenders, then the next lot. Some new accounts will come in, older players will return when cheating comes under control. Some cheats might figure out how to play the game properly, by themselves. But if that's still not enough? Well fine. UO goes out fighting. That's better than death by bot.

I mean honestly, we've all be paying these guys to spend time developing this detection code. We wait patiently believing all the promises that action will be coming "soon" and then this. No wonder the game is overrun with cheats, there's nothing to fear!

Wenchy

 

[Dakkon Blackblade]

They won't do mass bannings because they cannot afford to lose the subs

 

[Luvmylace]

Stick them in the sand of Magencia up to their necks and leave em for a day and let people come and make fun of them ?

 

[shadowgate]

.

You realize of course ...
The game is played through massive amounts of clicking ...
yes?





Speaking of mountains and mole-hills
post 14 dance's all around it
why "no way"?
don't like the way the clickies are laid out?

I disagree ... banning IS "pretty serious"
and clearly >provided for<

(c) Former Members. Members whose Accounts have been terminated by Electronic Arts may not access the Service in any manner or for any reason without the express written permission of Electronic Arts. Active Members may not knowingly allow former Members whose Accounts have been terminated to use the active Members' Accounts or User IDs.

Problem is ... cheaters never "quit" ... not really ... grow up ... maybe ... more often (when "gone" forever)
they just found a "better" more interesting


time waster

Ya see ...

they are playing a different game(see: Red Queen Hypothesis)
NOT the one "the good players" agreed to
They want to doit "their way"
Even the "creator" saw that conundrum
learn the parable of "RG and the Thief"

Heh!

Would you like to play a game?
if so

you lose ...

First yes I realize.
Second The Terms Of Service Ultima Online has doesn't state or provide them authorization to send game patches which will include ------ for lack of a better word SPYWARE being installed.(Its not a living TOS like WOW where each patch requires you to read and agree) Without that provision there is ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY NO WAY they can determine if a player is using an Illegal Third Party Application WITH ONE EXCEPTION. That exception being a GM witnesses a player who appears to be using a 3RD party App. Even then the GM has to ask the player to verify he / she is there and present. If the player is there then the GM is essentially done and left with no other recourse of action except to report his findings.
Earlier I told Petra Feyd to back up / prove the statements. I stated after that it wasn't possible ,because those were opinions. In this instance I assure you this is a fact. Blizzard certainly doesn't waste there time with we are turning over our LIST OF CHEATERS to Customer Service or We are going to have some fun with them. NOPE THEY DON'T and Y DO YOU SUPPOSE THAT IS????
Very simple ,because when you actively ACCEPT there TOS you agree everytime for them to install and search your pc / laptop for any 3RD party software they haven't approved. Then that software sends a report and most likely there is no human involvement the account is simply banned BYE BYE SEE YA. You are done no more game.
One final thought! Perhaps CAL is keeping a CLOSE EYE HERE!(I highly doubt as he is a PRODUCER who has way better things to do then bore himself what us idiots think may or may not happen) As stated prior GUILTY BY ASSOCIATION as in posting hear or even admitting you used a script doesn't provide them grounds to BAN the account. The TOS don't even list specific applications that aren't allowed. We do have a list that is approved. We do not have a list that says IF YOU ARE USING THIS APPLICATION your account might or will be banned.

ENOUGH SAID

 

[a slave girl]

I haven't posted on the boards in years. However I can say this post got my attention. I have been playing this game off and on and paid for well over 10 years of my account. When I first started playing Ultima I was a miner and I absolutely loved and enjoyed clicking my mouse and raising the skill .1 at a time. However now at age 36 with a 4 year old son and a wife. I do not have the time I had 12 years ago.
I love Ultima Online. I love all of the newest changes. This argument is as old as the game itself. Perhaps 12 years ago we had the time available to indulge in Ultima skill gaining. Today there is World of Warcraft, Conan, Star Trek, Etc and all of the different Facebook apps aka Farmville.
Today when I login to Ultima. If I have to start a skill for example imbuing. In order to get that skill to 120 doing the skill NONE STOP is 20 straight hours. I do not have that kind of time and thank god my characters are at the skill cap. If I had to do LOCKPICKING over or Animal Taming I can guarantee I would just cancel my account and walk away.
You whine and cry as a player who does mining. If the player is not at the computer or off at work I get that. However if a player is sitting at the pc and wants to play Ultima ,but doesn't wanna sit there and click over and over and they have been doing this for 12 years. GIVE IT A REST!
Its ok for a player to spend 6 buck and get an advanced character token. Yet if a player is intelligent enough to write a script that allows them to have the character perform the 20+ hours to gain in a skill he / she is cheating.
Forget this entire argument altogether you are talking about a game thats graphics are based off of a game that was created in 1992 for those who don't know (Ultima 7 The Black Gate) Even using the Enhanced Client the game is not GREAT / AWESOME Eye Candy. If you aren't going to revamp the way in which players advance the characters then don't get mad because people don't wanna spend 12 a month for a game that is more work then the 8 hours they spend paying for it at REAL LIFE JOB!!!

If you don't have the time to play a video game because:


You have:

kids

a job

a girlfriend or a boyfriend

a husband or a wife

an ailing family member

an ailing pet

tv shows you'd rather be watching

weeds to pull in the garden

dinner to cook

dishes to wash

floors to mop

arthritis

blindness

no hands

a ventilator

a (fill in the blank).

Then why are you playing?

I mean, why are you 'cheating' at a video game because if you don't have time to play and you are using a script to play for you then you really aren't playing.

You are just cheating.

That makes you nothing more than a cheater.

And that makes me sad for your kids.

 

[shadowgate]

If you don't have the time to play a video game because:


You have:

kids

a job

a girlfriend or a boyfriend

a husband or a wife

an ailing family member

an ailing pet

tv shows you'd rather be watching

weeds to pull in the garden

dinner to cook

dishes to wash

floors to mop

arthritis

blindness

no hands

a ventilator

a (fill in the blank).

Then why are playing?

I mean, why are you 'cheating' at a video game because if you don't have time to play and you are using a script to play for you then you really aren't playing.

You are just cheating.

That makes you nothing more than a cheater.

And that makes me sad for your kids.

When I first responded it was serious. Now for the most part I have been doing this ,because its Saturday and I am bored. I have a kid not kids. I guess in this instance I am a troll? I am not sure ,but hey you gave me some entertainment! You also took away from my boredom.

You are without question a TRAMMY!!! I am by no means a PVPER ,but I understand the concept and more so than CHEATING OR SCRIPTING the heart and sould purpose of Ultima Online is to find someone you can get there goat and get them upset. If we were in game you would be the ghost and I would be the Red Pk seeing if I could rezz you again just to kuill ya. LOL

THANKS LOL

 

[a slave girl]

When I first responded it was serious. Now for the most part I have been doing this ,because its Saturday and I am bored. I have a kid not kids. I guess in this instance I am a troll? I am not sure ,but hey you gave me some entertainment! You also took away from my boredom.

You are without question a TRAMMY!!! I am by no means a PVPER ,but I understand the concept and more so than CHEATING OR SCRIPTING the heart and sould purpose of Ultima Online is to find someone you can get there goat and get them upset. If we were in game you would be the ghost and I would be the Red Pk seeing if I could rezz you again just to kuill ya. LOL

THANKS LOL

You are not a troll you are a self confessed cheater.

And I am too smart to get rezzed by the person who just killed me?

I always wondered why people did that.

I don't care what your excuse is for cheating to be honest.

 

[shadowgate]

You are not a troll you are a self confessed cheater.

And I am too smart to get rezzed by the person who just killed me?

I always wondered why people did that.

I don't care what your excuse is for cheating to be honest.

As are you and everyone else on the board. Unless they have never bought something off a player run vendor. Here is the stupidest idea yet ban all the accounts of players who have bought something off a player vendor. The reason being the rules are the rules. If you bought something from a player vendor then you are a cheater as someone stated earlier so you are a self confessed cheater as well