Vas Rel Sanct - Church in UO

[Mairut]

THE KID IS THIRTEEN. ULTIMA ONLINE IS RATED T FOR TEEN. HE CAN LEGALLY BUY IT WITHOUT HIS PARENTS PERMISSION. END OF STORY. IF THE PARENTS AREN'T INVOLVED IN HIS ACTIVITIES AND INTERESTS THAT IS THEIR PROBLEM NOT EA'S.

And since we are both entitled to our own opinions, I'll take that as a legitimate response.

LIKE ALSO NOTED. ULTIMA ONLINE IS ALREADY INFLUENCED BY MANY DIFFERENT RELIGIOUS THINGS. YOU ARE CREATING A PROBLEM FROM NOTHING.

I'm not the only one who shared this opinion, maybe you would like to shout at those people too?

UO is influenced by them, but the Devs have made Chivalry, Necromancy, etc. a part of the storyline.

Having a real-world religious group in this game is not part of the storyline...because its from RL....and because of that, there may be unintended consequences.

I know you were also talking about kids being in the game with different religious elements to it...but (again) they are only influences. Having a real-world religious group in the game takes away from the feel of the game, and may have unintended consequences, including dip-sh*t parents suing the company because they don't know what their kids were doing, and later find out about it.

Now, instead of repeating what other people keep saying, maybe you'd like to actually add your own opinion to this conversation?

 

[Altpersona]

Don't encourage it...

 

[The Fallout]

Having a real-world religious group in this game is not part of the storyline...because its from RL....and because of that, there may be unintended consequences.

New rule in the TOS. You HAVE to talk in character at ALL TIMES. If you ever talk out of character in-game, you will be banned.

Now, instead of repeating what other people keep saying, maybe you'd like to actually add your own opinion to this conversation?

Now no one can agree? My are we picky.

 

[Viper09]

Having a real-world religious group in this game is not part of the storyline...because its from RL....and because of that, there may be unintended consequences.

Ugh, what? Are you suggesting that one of the rules of UO is that you HAVE to play by the story-line? All guilds in this game have to relate to UO? All names must be made to relate to UO? And thus everything that has relation to RL is against the rules?

 

[Pacem]

In reply to the origional poster of this thread, she has visited our church on Lake Austin on occasion and we took a tour with her to see her church on Atlantic. It is quite awesome.

I hope and pray more people are moved by Him to reach out to others like this woman has. Our services are on Lake Austin 9:30pm EST in Luna in what we call the NW corner "The Christian Corner" with all the crosses. All are welcome.

 

[The Fallout]

In reply to the origional poster of this thread, she has visited our church on Lake Austin on occasion and we took a tour with her to see her church on Atlantic. It is quite awesome.

I hope and pray more people are moved by Him to reach out to others like this woman has. Our services are on Lake Austin 9:30pm EST in Luna in what we call the NW corner "The Christian Corner" with all the crosses. All are welcome.

I hope you put your flame shield up.... lol

 

[Pacem]

I hear ya lol

 

[RollinTheTweed]

First of all - The Caps Lock button is located on your left.

Second of all - religion has no place in Ultima Online. Because there is many different religions playing this game, it may bother some people.

I personally do not believe in any of it, I don't thump bibles, I don't pay to see people Role playing the Pope. It has no place, we play to excape real life, not to see the reactment of the "The Crusades."

 

[The Fallout]

First of all - The Caps Lock button is located on your left.

Second of all - religion has no place in Ultima Online. Because there is many different religions playing this game, it may bother some people.

I personally do not believe in any of it, I don't thump bibles, I don't pay to see people Role playing the Pope. It has no place, we play to excape real life, not to see the reactment of the "The Crusades."

Again, the actual game of Ultima Online takes parts from MANY different religions. So quite frankly, you're wrong. As for caps lock. I like yelling.

 

[Pacem]

First of all - The Caps Lock button is located on your left.

Second of all - religion has no place in Ultima Online. Because there is many different religions playing this game, it may bother some people.

I personally do not believe in any of it, I don't thump bibles, I don't pay to see people Role playing the Pope. It has no place, we play to excape real life, not to see the reactment of the "The Crusades."

The solution is quite simple: If you don't like it, don't come! If you don't want to see it, don't watch it. If you pay to play and escape, play and escape! Ultima Online is a HUGE place with many things to see and do. Do them.

 

[Taylor]

. . . I don't pay to see people Role playing the Pope. It has no place, we play to excape real life, not to see the reactment of the "The Crusades."

*sigh* Once again...

The Slippery Slope is a fallacy in which a person asserts that some event must inevitably follow from another without any argument for the inevitability of the event in question. In most cases, there are a series of steps or gradations between one event and the one in question and no reason is given as to why the intervening steps or gradations will simply be bypassed. This "argument" has the following form:

Event X has occurred (or will or might occur).
Therefore event Y will inevitably happen.

This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because there is no reason to believe that one event must inevitably follow from another without an argument for such a claim. This is especially clear in cases in which there is a significant number of steps or gradations between one event and another.

The Crusades happened. They were terrible. This has no bearing on the present situation. I would venture to guess that no UO-based church incites future violent Crusades, to mirror those that took place in the 11th to 13th centuries.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

How nice for your encounters, but that was not my personal experience with them, as I noted... you're welcome to visit their locations in Luna and TM, or their sermons which appear to still occur every weekend.
...

And we may see the reason our encounters were not only different but perceived differently.

Why would I care to seek them out, just to rant about them? I mean, should that be the reason for my existence?

I encounter them, I talk to them, I go on about my business.

What, you encounter them, you argue with them about how they should not be able to do what they do?

If I encounter someone that I believe is acting in a way that is contrary to the ToS, I explain ONCE, that in my opinion they are acting badly and that if they persist in involving me in their actions that I will report it. If they do, then I do in fact report it.

The point of the above is it does NOT occur to me that I am the Law, the Cop, The Judge, The Jury and Executioner for UO players. That is the role of EA/Mythic employee's.

If I were to do that then the best I could label myself would be a Vigilante that has chosen to inject the Real World (i.e. MY CHOICE to punish the person for what I PERCEIVE is a violation of the ToS) into a fantasy environment that we all pay to play in.

What stops me is a WORD CALLED ... ANARCHY. If I do it, then who am I to whine about it, when others do it?

 

[Nestorius]

If they conduct 'church' in a RP fashion, if they evangelize not to YOU, but to your Avatar, then it enriches the game. If you don't like it, stand up for orthodoxy, stand up for the virtures, the shards, and proper Britanian traditional morality. If its not RP, just ignore it unless you are the tattling type who reports people to GMs when they say things you don't want to hear.

 

[Salya Sin]

I read through about half of this thread and realized it was going to take awhile to get through it all...

My two cents, not sure if any other Napa players posted this...

There is a Church of Napa located within the Luna walls... I thought it a bit odd but was otherwise ok with it. What players choose to do with their UO time is not my business so long as it is in no way being forced on the other players who would not otherwise wish to be involved. No different then Fel or Spawns. If you do not wish to PvP or fight a more difficult opponent... you stay out of those areas... yes?

That said.. here is where my problem lies... all over Luna, this player leaves books preaching about God... and I don't mean 10... I mean 50-100 books laying all over the bank and the vending walkway... (once, another player went through and deleted the text of all of them and wrote in a nice "Please stop" letter), Runes to the service outside all moongates AND all over some of the towns. This I could ignore.. though it is mildly annoying to have the floors covered in it... though I guess any event would lay runes of this nature.. so I can see the reasoning behind it.. if not all the books, which to me is just tacky.

Now... to the real offense (to me)... the packhorses. As if Luna is not laggy enough... every sermon given... is broadcast using communication crystals on packhorses set in Luna... two of them. One by the stables and one by the moongate. So I am not being given the choice to "go or not go"... If I go to Luna during the sermons... I get to see every word of that sermon being conducted in their church. Yes I could click ignore and target the packy ( they use new ones each time so I have to retarget)... but that is not the point... Christianity is offensive to me in that I can not condone what has been done in the name of religion. I feel this way about most religions... an excuse to purge all who do not follow the masses or agree with me... I had no problem with them holding church, as I said it is THEIR game time and they pay for it just as I do... BUT I am not given the choice of exclusion when they bring it into the regular gaming areas... I choose not to go into that house... BUT I am being forced to attend by their broadcasted sermon regardless and that is wrong.

I mean no offense to those who believe... truly... I am a strict believer in each to his own in most cases. So please... no "OH OH.. you don't believe as I do and I must therefore attack and annhilate you for the anti-religion scum that you are!" I just don't want it forced on me during my play time.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

...
Now... to the real offense (to me)... the packhorses. As if Luna is not laggy enough... every sermon given... is broadcast using communication crystals on packhorses set in Luna... two of them. One by the stables and one by the moongate....

But as has been pointed out no one is forcing you use the Luna Bank but yourself.

No one is forcing you to use a specific Moongate (and loiter/stay) but yourself.

If you are encountering unplayable Lag because of the in game artifacts being used, then again, bugging this and / or reporting this is well within your rights. If the bug were to say, "I am being subjected to this Religious nonsense and it is causing me lag", well then good luck with that approach as your probably going to achieve nothing but insult the GM's / Readers intelligence.

On the other hand, if you say, "The use of artifact x is causing lag" then this, all things being equal, can be verified to be correct or wrong or situational to you. This can be dealt with by action or a conscious choice of inaction.

The test will (at least should) be, can I cause you to not Cast Gates, Recall or any spell with this claim, "I do not think magic should be in the game, this person cast a lot of spells that I do not think they should be able to cast, and Oh Yea, it is causing me lag".

 

[The Fallout]

I read through about half of this thread and realized it was going to take awhile to get through it all...

My two cents, not sure if any other Napa players posted this...

There is a Church of Napa located within the Luna walls... I thought it a bit odd but was otherwise ok with it. What players choose to do with their UO time is not my business so long as it is in no way being forced on the other players who would not otherwise wish to be involved. No different then Fel or Spawns. If you do not wish to PvP or fight a more difficult opponent... you stay out of those areas... yes?

That said.. here is where my problem lies... all over Luna, this player leaves books preaching about God... and I don't mean 10... I mean 50-100 books laying all over the bank and the vending walkway... (once, another player went through and deleted the text of all of them and wrote in a nice "Please stop" letter), Runes to the service outside all moongates AND all over some of the towns. This I could ignore.. though it is mildly annoying to have the floors covered in it... though I guess any event would lay runes of this nature.. so I can see the reasoning behind it.. if not all the books, which to me is just tacky.

Now... to the real offense (to me)... the packhorses. As if Luna is not laggy enough... every sermon given... is broadcast using communication crystals on packhorses set in Luna... two of them. One by the stables and one by the moongate. So I am not being given the choice to "go or not go"... If I go to Luna during the sermons... I get to see every word of that sermon being conducted in their church. Yes I could click ignore and target the packy ( they use new ones each time so I have to retarget)... but that is not the point... Christianity is offensive to me in that I can not condone what has been done in the name of religion. I feel this way about most religions... an excuse to purge all who do not follow the masses or agree with me... I had no problem with them holding church, as I said it is THEIR game time and they pay for it just as I do... BUT I am not given the choice of exclusion when they bring it into the regular gaming areas... I choose not to go into that house... BUT I am being forced to attend by their broadcasted sermon regardless and that is wrong.

I mean no offense to those who believe... truly... I am a strict believer in each to his own in most cases. So please... no "OH OH.. you don't believe as I do and I must therefore attack and annhilate you for the anti-religion scum that you are!" I just don't want it forced on me during my play time.

Actually I think the broadcasting thing could be considered.... harassment? I don't know though, nor would I care because if they were broadcasting in Luna I'd put down my own pack llamas next to theirs and have a sermon about the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

 

[Pacem]

The solution is quite simple: If you don't like it, don't come! If you don't want to see it, don't watch it. If you pay to play and escape, play and escape! Ultima Online is a HUGE place with many things to see and do. Do them.

You don't HAVE to stick around where the packies are.

And besides, they can be put on ignore like players can, and since they are bonded you will never hear them again.
You say you shouldn't have to put them on ignore? Fine. Like the quote says, do something else besides hang around the packies! It's only once a week for 2 hours tops anyway, the rest of the week is yours.

 

[Pacem]

And, if you say that you shouldn't have to go somewhere else, and then don't.... fine knock yourself out. Don't come crying to me about your self-inflicted "torture" listening to them when you have the entire game to play in.

Appologies in advance for that sounding harsh, but... refusing to leave and as a result staying and listening, refusing to ignore them.... you put that on yourself.

 

[maroite]

And it seems to me that when someone preaches to someone else's children about something that THAT CHILDS PARENTS MAY NOT agree with...then that does, indeed, have the potential to create a problem.

I personally believe it would only be a problem for the kid, as he would lose his ability to play UO because of overly protective and biased parents. I believe Children should be able to make their own decisions, and around 13 was when I started to learn right from wrong.

Granted I had some guidance from my parents, but at this point they were not hovering. They gave me the choice, as I believe every child should have.

Also, trouble only comes when people don't have the common sense to leave things alone. Prodding and picking away at something like this is what causes problems, where if no one had made this post to begin with, this religious group would probably have stayed a small secret on their shard.

And, if you say that you shouldn't have to go somewhere else, and then don't.... fine knock yourself out. Don't come crying to me about your self-inflicted "torture" listening to them when you have the entire game to play in.

Appologies in advance for that sounding harsh, but... refusing to leave and as a result staying and listening, refusing to ignore them.... you put that on yourself.

I agree.

Although I guess for some, its just too easy to do.

 

[The Fallout]

I personally believe it would only be a problem for the kid, as he would lose his ability to play UO because of overly protective and biased parents. I believe Children should be able to make their own decisions, and around 13 was when I started to learn right from wrong.

Granted I had some guidance from my parents, but at this point they were not hovering. They gave me the choice, as I believe every child should have.

Also, trouble only comes when people don't have the common sense to leave things alone. Prodding and picking away at something like this is what causes problems, where if no one had made this post to begin with, this religious group would probably have stayed a small secret on their shard.



I agree.

Although I guess for some, its just too easy to do.

No one should be forced to leave because someone is using communication crystals to spam a religious sermon in UO. Just saying.

 

[Pacem]

Then I say again:

...refusing to leave and as a result staying and listening, refusing to ignore them.... you put that on yourself.

And again:

they can be put on ignore like players can, and since they are bonded you will never hear them again.

 

[Pacem]

When a sermon is broadcast on TV, are you forced to watch and listen to it?
No. You go elsewhere.

"Go and do ye likewise" in UO.

 

[The Fallout]

When a sermon is broadcast on TV, are you forced to watch and listen to it?
No. You go elsewhere.

"Go and do ye likewise" in UO.

I don't like that comparison. The christian channel isn't a channel that is very popular and a place where people congregate and trade/sell items. Then again they can put your llamas on ignore. Yet, I wouldn't care if a gm got rid of them either.