Vas Rel Sanct - Church in UO

[GreyPawn]

I have seen it all now.

It was about a week or two ago when I was trudging along on Atlantic, taking the moongate to Luna to check the latest on dyes for a new robe I had acquired when I stumbled upon a rune. Not an unusual thing, typically large vendors will use this method to advertise, merchants trying to market for off-Luna wares at discount prices. But this rune said something that caught my eye.

“Sunday Church Service - 7:00 p.m. EST, come one, come all!”

No way. Being a curious type, I hit the rune. It was coincidentally about 2 minutes after 7. I encountered two structures built like churches, one was filled to the brim with players. I dismounted my ethereal horse and walked in, finding just one empty bench left in the building. At the front was a woman dressed in white and red, giving a sermon. A Christian sermon. The topic was forgiveness and patience. An ankh punctuated the altar, comprised of white marble with a Fountain of Life (I assume for blessings and holy water). A cross formed of goza mats was emblazoned on the floor of the building, and I realized that the stone on the front of the structure also was in the form of a giant stained glass cross.

I couldn’t help but sit through the sermon. I kept looking at the congregation. Kellen, Grandmaster Mage. CREE DAL, Foe of the Abyss. Shawn, Legendary Tamer with the giant half-dog/half-dragon creature parked outside. The contrast seemed dizzying. Here there was a female pastor espousing the virtues of non-denominational Christian faith in, of all places, Sosaria. West of Trinsic near the Bog of Desolation to be precise.

I felt awkward to be wearing a wizard hat. My spellbook has a gigantic pentagram right on the front. I had just re-trained Necromancy, and I think my title was showing up as “The Ignoble GreyPawn, Elder Necromancer”. I did however thank my lucky stars that I had recently purchased scrolls and had an odd 4,000 or so in loose gold in my pack - tithes should the social pressure mount and the need arise.

Eventually the sermon ended and I left, beating a hasty retreat to my guild’s headquarters. Since that time, I expected to see no more of them, a fluke, fly-by-night and hardly permanent. Instead they have expanded and now conduct midnight sermons on Saturday, as well as a normal service on Sunday.

What does this mean? Ultimately, it means that emergent behavior is not limited to direct expressions of in-game ingeniousness. It means that human experience is pervasive. It means that in the wildest of all imaginations, we are likely going to be witness to what happens when one of the largest world religions finds itself in a fictional universe that has its own set of religions and morality. Can Christianity resolve Virtues and Principles with Beatitudes and Fruits of the Spirit? Is the Avatar going to end up a symbol for Christ, or vice-versa?

As it stands, the Church of UO is a thing, functional, extant and as far as I can tell not going to go away anytime soon. It is wholly maintained within the game, offering services to users who would otherwise not even consider attending church locally. That it exists, and how it got there does make me think of community in new ways, and certainly demonstrates a new paradigm.

I caught up with the pastor and interviewed her a bit, just to pick her brain on what the deal was. What made you decide to start a church in UO? “God led me to it.” What tenets do you follow? “Non-denominational. Come as you are, be as you are. No judgment, just the word of God.” As it turns out, her son has played UO for almost 12 years, and she is an active member of the music ministry in “real life”. I couldn’t help stiffle a laugh later, taking a tour through the church, noticing in the private quarters an arcane circle in bright blue plastered upon the floor. Appropriate decor is probably difficult to come by for the (unofficial) Sosarian non-denominational offshoot of the Assemblies of God. I neglected to ask whether banksitting would be considered a sin, and whether or not there is an active outreach program to minister to the reds of Felucca.

Praise the lord and pass the reagents?

 

[Maplestone]

Where does this "God" you speak of spawn? What loot does it drop? Just the usual bread, blood and 20 gold?

 

[Viquire]

Where does this "God" you speak of spawn? What loot does it drop? Just the usual bread, blood and 20 gold?

If you kill it, 30 silver. The bread and wine are free to all who choose to partake.

 

[Maplestone]

Silver not gold? Oh, so it's a factions thing? I don't get involved in that sort of stuff. Ah well, there'd probably be some karma burn too.

(I jest, and I hope I don't jest too far, but the triumvirate of religion, politics and sex seem like extremely dangerous things to bring into an MMO)

 

[Astrel]

No doubt this will become a touchy subject for the developers to comment upon, as while they encourage roleplaying I am not sure that this is the kind of roleplaying that they would expect. As for the people who are engaged in this endeavor, I can only regard it as fanaticism, as UO is after all a game where people are not particularly interested in the doings of ordinary RL society.

Seeing that there are many opportunities in RL to follow such pursuits, I can see it as only being detrimental to UO, in that it may well encourage religious factionalism, and in future the possibility of real world political campaigning being introduced into the game.

While the TOS agreement points out that we the players may not engage in offensive behaviour, this in itself may be regarded as offensive behaviour by some. One would hope that the people involved will wake up to the fact that UO is after all only a game and that there are much more suitable venues for expressing their beliefs.

 

[Jermosh]

There have been all kinds of Churches in UO. This is one of the reasons why I love UO, you can pretty much do what you want in a RPG fantasy setting.
Also the pentagram is not really an anti-christian symbol, just like an upside cross is not as well.

 

[Lil' Lucien]

Amen to that!.... er...... *jumps in a lake*

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

As long as they are not actively bothering you to attend while you're out playing, they aren;t bothering anything or anyone. The runes are no different than the ones to various vendor houses (trust me, there is one being spam dropped all over Ter Mur and every moongate on LS constantly right now).

Don't want to be involved then don't go. If yo DO go, then respect their event and if they find you outside the event to advertise their faith, THEN you can bring it to the attention of the GMs.

Respect is a two way street, As long as they aren't disrespecting your choice to go or not, then respect their choice to have the event(s) in their own virtual house.

 

[sablestorm]

No doubt this will become a touchy subject for the developers to comment upon, as while they encourage roleplaying I am not sure that this is the kind of roleplaying that they would expect. As for the people who are engaged in this endeavor, I can only regard it as fanaticism, as UO is after all a game where people are not particularly interested in the doings of ordinary RL society.

Seeing that there are many opportunities in RL to follow such pursuits, I can see it as only being detrimental to UO, in that it may well encourage religious factionalism, and in future the possibility of real world political campaigning being introduced into the game.

While the TOS agreement points out that we the players may not engage in offensive behaviour, this in itself may be regarded as offensive behaviour by some. One would hope that the people involved will wake up to the fact that UO is after all only a game and that there are much more suitable venues for expressing their beliefs.

Fanaticism? That is hilarious to me.

I myself was sort of brought up catholic. My father had even considered becoming a catholic priest in his youth and he is well versed in the Bible. For myself, however, my spirituality is very private and I must give a shout out to Ultima for helping to shape it. Here I was a kid contemplating the virtues of Ultima 4 and that contemplation is basically what led me to consider my own spirituality and form my own code of ethics which I follow. I am not Christian, Muslim, nor Jewish, but I respect each religion for I have very good friends who follow each. What I am, however, is someone who is very secure in myself.

It cracks me up when I hear people say religion has no place in UO? Oh really? So you condone murder and theft in UO but religion, oh my goodness, how terrible! I have always found those who condemn religious services in UO to basically be voicing their own insecurities. The mere mention of religion makes them already feel judged, despite the fact these services might not be judgemental at all.

People are always expressing their opinions in game. You need only to read through the threads here at Stratics to see the heated debates about different play styles. People get offended over this too. So what are we to do about this "offensive" behavior? People get offended over being pkilled, despite the fact they chose to go into Felucca. So if you decide to attend one of these religious gatherings and get offended, that's on you.

Me personally, I see no issue with these religious gatherings in UO unless they start harassing others.

 

[Astrel]

This religious endeavor is actually breaking the rules of conduct:

5) You may not market, promote or advertise anything, or make any other form of solicitation (including pyramid schemes and chain letters) on the Ultima Online Service or through the Ultima Online Web Site.

And it may violate the following rule:

6) You may not violate any local, state, national or international law or regulation.

In addition, it may also violate the following:

9) You may not organize any guilds or groups that are based on, or espouse, any racist, sexist, anti-religious, anti-ethnic, anti-gay, or other hate-mongering philosophy.

Note that due to the history of Christianity and those who suffered intolerably under its power, e.g. American Indians and Australian Aborigines, just to mention a couple of its victims during the last century due to the fact that it would take me a couple of years to actually list every recorded transgression, then it may well be regarded as a hate mongering philosophy by some.

Then, the following rule:

10) You may not use the Ultima Online Service or the Ultima Online Web Site for any activities other than activities that are permitted within the game world.

Finally, the following rule:

1) You may not harass, threaten, embarrass or cause distress, unwanted attention or discomfort to another player.

as I personally would consider such activities within UO as a real embarrassment.

That is five broken rules. The people concerned should ask themselves whether they wish to participate in UO as rulebreakers/exploiters or develop some basic morality and follow the game rules like most of us do.

 

[JPDefault]

I find it disturbing, but not surprising nor worrying.
I say, respect them as long as they see that as part of a game and don't start to take it more seriously.

 

[Jhym]

The problem I have with such things:

People play games, including on-line games, to escape their lives. Those lives may be great lives, or they may be wrapped in racism or failure or even despondency at the things people will do to each other.

Do those people want to be reminded at how bad people can be to each other? Do they want to BE bad, since they can't do so in real life? Do they want to BE good, since they can't show that part of themselves in real life?

That is all possible. Groups of people can join together to defend Britannia or defeat it.

However, anytime you bring "real life" into the game, I start having issues with it. If you bring racism into the game that reflects your opinion of the PERSON, you are punished -- with good reason. However, I feel racism within the game parameters is a human reaction and valid: Elves may not like humans, and both may dislike Gargoyles.

Racism in those cases I think are a valid reaction in role-playing and worth exploring. I think it is something the developers and storytellers have ignored for most of the game, leaving out something that is both meaningful BUT can be CONSTRAINED to the game. If my character calls a gargoyle a "rockbat" as a derogatory term, because she hates how they look and act, I see that as a valid reflection of personality in the character.

If she used a "real life" term, however, there is no distinction between fantasy and reality, and thus she shouldn't be able to.


I feel the same about political affiliation and religion.

IF these people were speaking of generic virtue within UO and being good to one another, WITHOUT A SPECIFIC REAL WORLD RELIGION INVOLVED AT ALL, then I would be fine with it. Speaking of the virtues and principles makes perfect sense from the UO perspective. They even could speak of British as a representation of a prophet if they so desired, and I'd be fine with that.

As soon as they bring anything external into the game world, however, I have a huge issue with it, as I feel the "real world" has no place here.

Since they are in their own private areas and not insisting people "join" them, I have no further actionable opinion on the matter. However, if I come across people "preaching" their religion in public areas (and that it's obvious which real religion they are preaching) then I will be glad to page on them.

They also need to be aware that like other highly charged opinion matter, EA has no interest in mediating differences of opinion, race, religion nor politics. Everyone, religious or non, must be welcome and accepted in the game they are playing.

At this point in the game, I truly think it is incredibly stupid to inject real world religion or politics into UO. You pretty much ask people to either agree or disagree with you and be happy or angry with you. And if the history of this game is any indication, adding real-world grudges and opinions into the mix only causes heartache, fear... and exasperation for those of us that just want to enjoy our gaming.

 

[WarderDragon]

If they aren't hurting anyone, let them be.

Game World's like Ultima Online encourage people from all walks of life to come together. We talk about politics, sports, and other real-world issues all the time. If they're coming together based on their religious beliefs, more power to them.

No doubt this will become a touchy subject for the developers to comment upon, as while they encourage roleplaying I am not sure that this is the kind of roleplaying that they would expect. As for the people who are engaged in this endeavor, I can only regard it as fanaticism, as UO is after all a game where people are not particularly interested in the doings of ordinary RL society.

Careful not to lump the practice of someones real-world religion with roleplaying. They are two completely different things.

 

[Sabbath]

An interesting issue and a well written post, GreyPawn...thanks for sharing

 

[Astrel]

One other interesting comment on this comes from a Chinese friend who works at the local embassy. He said that in China if any game was found to be promoting a religion, or even allowing the promotion of such, the authorities would pull the plug before you could say Ultima Online.

Anyway, whatever one's personal opinions are, we do have rules of conduct, which are far more definitive than whether or not such people are doing harm, thus we should stick to our own 'bible' (the rules of conduct) and follow those.

 

[Jermosh]

Looks like another good thread gone bad.

 

[PASmountaindew]

be very carefull and don't drink the cool-aid.

 

[Eyes of Origin]

I've seen numerous churches in UO, mainly on one shard and all in Luna.

I feel that if they are not bothering anyone, preaching to them in Luna or anywhere else but in their churches, then they should be left alone.

 

[Lady Michelle]

This religious endeavor is actually breaking the rules of conduct:

5) You may not market, promote or advertise anything, or make any other form of solicitation (including pyramid schemes and chain letters) on the Ultima Online Service or through the Ultima Online Web Site.

And it may violate the following rule:

6) You may not violate any local, state, national or international law or regulation.

In addition, it may also violate the following:

9) You may not organize any guilds or groups that are based on, or espouse, any racist, sexist, anti-religious, anti-ethnic, anti-gay, or other hate-mongering philosophy.

Note that due to the history of Christianity and those who suffered intolerably under its power, e.g. American Indians and Australian Aborigines, just to mention a couple of its victims during the last century due to the fact that it would take me a couple of years to actually list every recorded transgression, then it may well be regarded as a hate mongering philosophy by some.

Then, the following rule:

10) You may not use the Ultima Online Service or the Ultima Online Web Site for any activities other than activities that are permitted within the game world.

Finally, the following rule:

1) You may not harass, threaten, embarrass or cause distress, unwanted attention or discomfort to another player.

as I personally would consider such activities within UO as a real embarrassment.

That is five broken rules. The people concerned should ask themselves whether they wish to participate in UO as rulebreakers/exploiters or develop some basic morality and follow the game rules like most of us do.

this is where you or a group of players cannot get together form a guild and harass, threaten, embarrass or cause distress, unwanted attention or discomfort to another player. meaning you or others cannot spread hate by organizing any guilds or groups that are based on, or espouse, any racist, sexist, anti-religious, anti-ethnic, anti-gay, or other hate-mongering philosophy.

 

[Miriandel]

Very good read Greypawn, thank you, and some interesting replies too.
This is really what makes UO, IMHO.

And... to Astrel... go take your chill pill man. Seriously, whatever I read you write, it's only drivel, don't you have anything positive to say?
Where's the 'ignore poster' on these boards?

 

[Astrel]

As Jhym said:

"I feel the same about political affiliation and religion.

IF these people were speaking of generic virtue within UO and being good to one another, WITHOUT A SPECIFIC REAL WORLD RELIGION INVOLVED AT ALL, then I would be fine with it. Speaking of the virtues and principles makes perfect sense from the UO perspective. They even could speak of British as a representation of a prophet if they so desired, and I'd be fine with that.

As soon as they bring anything external into the game world, however, I have a huge issue with it, as I feel the "real world" has no place here."

If the lady was a little smart then she would preach the virtues without any need for mentioning a religious affiliation or even calling her place a church, and while probably most would agree that on the surface such activities are not harmful they do open the door for other activities.

There are many types of religious groups in the real world, and without mentioning names some of them could well be considered fanatical and slightly whacky, or even have hidden agendas that most of us would not welcome in UO. Plus, there are many other types of real life activities or philosophies and lifestyles that could make an impact on the minds of younger players in UO, not forgetting politics, and saying that as long as they stay on their own plot of land then they do no harm is pretty shortsighted.

Accepting one apparently respectable real life activity into the game of UO means that we must accept all, and in doing so you can kiss the game goodbye, because then it becomes a platform for what people believe in rather than just a game that people play.

Stick with the rules of conduct.

 

[Serafi]

Interesting read, and well written Greypawn. I have seen churches in UO before, and it doesn`t surprise me one bit - nor does it offend me. UO is not only a game per se, it is also a social construct, a world inhabited by people. To me there is no difference between the Race that some players organized this weekend on Europa, and the Sunday Church service you describe. Both are community events organized by players for players. No one is forcing you to attend either.

 

[pacific lily]

It sounded nifty till I got to this part...

I caught up with the pastor and interviewed her a bit, just to pick her brain on what the deal was. What made you decide to start a church in UO? “God led me to it.” What tenets do you follow? “Non-denominational. Come as you are, be as you are. No judgment, just the word of God.” As it turns out, her son has played UO for almost 12 years, and she is an active member of the music ministry in “real life”. I couldn’t help stiffle a laugh later, taking a tour through the church, noticing in the private quarters an arcane circle in bright blue plastered upon the floor. Appropriate decor is probably difficult to come by for the (unofficial) Sosarian non-denominational offshoot of the Assemblies of God. I neglected to ask whether banksitting would be considered a sin, and whether or not there is an active outreach program to minister to the reds of Felucca.

Praise the lord and pass the reagents?

It sounds like she wasn't playing, she just decided to make a character to come into the game and promote christianity through that character. I don't have a problem with it in general, but I think I'd feel more warm and fuzzy about it if it was just a group of players that sort of accidentally found out that they had the same beliefs and organized a church around that.


lily

 

[Mairut]

As Jhym said:

"I feel the same about political affiliation and religion.

IF these people were speaking of generic virtue within UO and being good to one another, WITHOUT A SPECIFIC REAL WORLD RELIGION INVOLVED AT ALL, then I would be fine with it. Speaking of the virtues and principles makes perfect sense from the UO perspective. They even could speak of British as a representation of a prophet if they so desired, and I'd be fine with that.

As soon as they bring anything external into the game world, however, I have a huge issue with it, as I feel the "real world" has no place here."

If the lady was a little smart then she would preach the virtues without any need for mentioning a religious affiliation or even calling her place a church, and while probably most would agree that on the surface such activities are not harmful they do open the door for other activities.

There are many types of religious groups in the real world, and without mentioning names some of them could well be considered fanatical and slightly whacky, or even have hidden agendas that most of us would not welcome in UO. Plus, there are many other types of real life activities or philosophies and lifestyles that could make an impact on the minds of younger players in UO, not forgetting politics, and saying that as long as they stay on their own plot of land then they do no harm is pretty shortsighted.

Accepting one apparently respectable real life activity into the game of UO means that we must accept all, and in doing so you can kiss the game goodbye, because then it becomes a platform for what people believe in rather than just a game that people play.

Stick with the rules of conduct.

To add to that if I may...AND Since nobody else besides Astral and Jhym really seems to have come out and said it...

I wonder what would happen if someone else decided to come into the game to preach their religion...muslim, jewish, buddhist, pagan, etc....?

When that happens then there may be a problem.
Until we reach that point- and we will reach a point, because if one religion is aloud in the game, why not all others?- then we will have to see how it goes. I could be wrong about their being a problem, and everyone gets along and lives happily ever after.

If you look at history though, there has always consistently been a problem between people of religion (or those who don't have a religion, whatever the case may be) and people who are involved in politics.

I really, really, really, really don't want my reply to sound like "if one person has it, then everyone else has to" or "if one group can't have it then nobody else can" as far as religion goes...and then you get parents who are a bit touchy about what their kids hear and read.

I think it would be best just to keep religion and politics of this ilk out of the game, and avoid that (above paragraph) potential mess...yes, you read that correctly.. potential mess entirely.

If anyone can think of or has heard of scenarios where something like this turned out for the better, I would love to hear about it.

For the record, I don't personally have a problem with people coming into UO and talking/preaching about whatever they want, for the moment. I just don't want this to turn into a giant mess. The same thing has happened in people's places of work, gyms, schools, and with seemingly the same results everytime. I just hope all the nastiness can be avoided in UO.

 

[Viper09]

...

As long as they are not actively bothering you to attend while you're out playing, they aren;t bothering anything or anyone. The runes are no different than the ones to various vendor houses (trust me, there is one being spam dropped all over Ter Mur and every moongate on LS constantly right now).

Don't want to be involved then don't go. If yo DO go, then respect their event and if they find you outside the event to advertise their faith, THEN you can bring it to the attention of the GMs.

Respect is a two way street, As long as they aren't disrespecting your choice to go or not, then respect their choice to have the event(s) in their own virtual house.

Perfectly stated. Don't like it, don't go. They aren't bothering anyone to attend their services.

 

[WarderDragon]

I wonder what would happen if someone else decided to come into the game to preach their religion...muslim, jewish, buddhist, pagan, etc....?

There was actually a Wiccan group a couple years back.

So long as these players are respectful of one another, and aren't causing problems or harassing anyone, let them come together based on their religious or spiritual beliefs. It hasn't hurt anyone.

The only people who seem to have a problem are the same ones comparing religious groups to racist groups. As an observer, that tells me alot.

 

[Mairut]

There was actually a Wiccan group a couple years back.

So long as these players are respectful of one another, and aren't causing problems or harassing anyone, let them come together based on their religious or spiritual beliefs. It hasn't hurt anyone.

The only people who seem to have a problem are the same ones comparing religious groups to racist groups. As an observer, that tells me alot.

Well, now, I wasn't aware of that. Thanks for the info

I'm not sure if the last thing was directed at me or to the thread in general, but just in case anyone else brings it up and it is directed at me
I grew up in a very religious community and with different beliefs than everyone else there, so my experiences with this type of thing and how they turn out may be a little rudimentary. That, and based on things I've heard of happening elsewhere. Suffice it to say, some people in the community I grew up in can get very nasty about what they think you should believe

 

[Semirhaage]

I find it hard to believe that anyone can react strongly to a small church in UO. When I first started playing, one of the things that really appealed to me was that you can do almost EVERYTHING in game. Role playing? Just give a shout at Brit Bank. Need cash? Grab a shovel! Want to lose some sleep? Do your mining in Fellucca! And so on... Everywere I went I met friendly people, and, of course, the odd rotten egg. But the great variety of people and options in UO have kept me coming back to play for years, with the occasional break.

And due to the religion issues; if players are not allowed to conduct sermon in UO, then why should Christmas presents and Easter Happenings be allowed to continue? (And yes, I am aware they are NOW called "a Holiday gift") --> you say potato, I say potatoe.

By the way... Not part of any religion myself, but have deep respect for other peoples opinions, believes and values. As long as they respect me too.

Leave them alone, how could this possibly harm anyone?

 

[Divster]

This religious endeavor is actually breaking the rules of conduct:

5) You may not market, promote or advertise anything, or make any other form of solicitation (including pyramid schemes and chain letters) on the Ultima Online Service or through the Ultima Online Web Site.

And it may violate the following rule:

6) You may not violate any local, state, national or international law or regulation.

In addition, it may also violate the following:

9) You may not organize any guilds or groups that are based on, or espouse, any racist, sexist, anti-religious, anti-ethnic, anti-gay, or other hate-mongering philosophy.

Note that due to the history of Christianity and those who suffered intolerably under its power, e.g. American Indians and Australian Aborigines, just to mention a couple of its victims during the last century due to the fact that it would take me a couple of years to actually list every recorded transgression, then it may well be regarded as a hate mongering philosophy by some.

Then, the following rule:

10) You may not use the Ultima Online Service or the Ultima Online Web Site for any activities other than activities that are permitted within the game world.

Finally, the following rule:

1) You may not harass, threaten, embarrass or cause distress, unwanted attention or discomfort to another player.

as I personally would consider such activities within UO as a real embarrassment.

That is five broken rules. The people concerned should ask themselves whether they wish to participate in UO as rulebreakers/exploiters or develop some basic morality and follow the game rules like most of us do.

Wow just wow, most of the rules you have listed here are in no way breached by the issue involved, your attempt to use rule 9 is probably the most notable as you take corruptions of a religious doctrine to support your argument. Maybe you should find out exactly what it is they promote before aligning them with terrible events.

This group is in no way preaching hate mongering of any kind nor is it forcing people to follow its aims so just how would it cause discomfort any more than the free actions of all too many players unless you go looking for it? Why not demand no pvp guild can exist as pvp causes discomfort to many people to eh?

The only one of your points that could be associated would be number 5 but then most players in the game that ever used advertising on runes would be subject to this as well

As you seem so concerned about the morality of those involved may you should take a look at yourself before throwing such accusations at people based possibly more on your own viewpoint and resentment than by any actuall in game incident.

As has been said they are doing nothing to force you to pay attention to them so just ignore the runes (which have nothing remotely offensive about them) and avoid attending thier services.

 

[Viper09]

If you really want to get technical, runes/books/etc showing times and places for events by all players are advertising as well
After all, by an extent, these runes showing the times of their services are also "events" by a guild or a person.

So I guess that kind of ruins the whole "rule number 5" aye? Otherwise we will have to start cracking down on advertising for events by players.

 

[Der Rock]

As Jhym said:

"I feel the same about political affiliation and religion.

IF these people were speaking of generic virtue within UO and being good to one another, WITHOUT A SPECIFIC REAL WORLD RELIGION INVOLVED AT ALL, then I would be fine with it. Speaking of the virtues and principles makes perfect sense from the UO perspective. They even could speak of British as a representation of a prophet if they so desired, and I'd be fine with that.
As soon as they bring anything external into the game world, however, I have a huge issue with it, as I feel the "real world" has no place here."

Stick with the rules of conduct.

correct,
what will be next? A Scientology Temple?, a Jehovah´s Witness House ? MuslimBrother,
AryanBrotherhood ?

NO and NO such REALITY is and should not be in UO !

UO is still a GAME to spend the leisure time, if some player think they have to pray to what ever fetish they like, i dont care what you do in your own private home,but NOT in game !

(remember,many kids play the game,so those things must be stopped at the beginning,
EA/MYTHIC follow the Rules )

 

[Stupid Miner]

That, and based on things I've heard of happening elsewhere. Suffice it to say, some people in the community I grew up in can get very nasty about what they think you should believe

Eh, just ignore them, there are jerks in every religion (including non-religion) typically has less to do with their religion than their own personality flaws.

 

[WarderDragon]

I'm not sure if the last thing was directed at me or to the thread in general, but just in case anyone else brings it up and it is directed at me
I grew up in a very religious community and with different beliefs than everyone else there, so my experiences with this type of thing and how they turn out may be a little rudimentary. That, and based on things I've heard of happening elsewhere. Suffice it to say, some people in the community I grew up in can get very nasty about what they think you should believe

It was directed at others. Sorry about that.

 

[Mairut]

Eh, just ignore them, there are jerks in every religion (including non-religion) typically has less to do with their religion than their own personality flaws.

Aye, it does say a lot about the person who's nasty. Says a lot more about about the person who is able to ignore it.

It was directed at others. Sorry about that.

I wasn't sure... I said that afraid someone might jump on a perceived bandwagon.

No worries... apology accepted; already forgotten

 

[Astrel]

It appears that some people are indeed short sighted, the issue is not really about religion but in promoting real life beliefs and lifestyles, etc. in game. If if is tolerated what is to prevent some people who prey on young people or have political or business agendas from starting an association with a harmless sounding name, or even calling themselves a religious group for that matter, from infecting the game with dangerous and tiresome elements? While some may say that such groups would eventually be revealed and banned, how many parents among you would like to risk your son or daughter coming into contact with such spurious elements in an online computer game?

 

[wee papa smurf]

correct,
what will be next? A Scientology Temple?, a Jehovah´s Witness House ? MuslimBrother,
AryanBrotherhood ?

NO and NO such REALITY is and should not be in UO !

UO is still a GAME to spend the leisure time, if some player think they have to pray to what ever fetish they like, i dont care what you do in your own private home,but NOT in game !

(remember,many kids play the game,so those things must be stopped at the beginning,
EA/MYTHIC follow the Rules )

Agreed, but with players all over the world its inevitable that religion and other such stuff will hit the streets of UO. Theres never going to be a happy medium when it comes to all that stuff because theres so many different opinions out there. And its maybe a topic for the OT No Hold Barred

 

[Viper09]

It appears that some people are indeed short sighted, the issue is not really about religion but in promoting real life beliefs and lifestyles, etc. in game. If if is tolerated what is to prevent some people who prey on young people or have political or business agendas from starting an association with a harmless sounding name, or even calling themselves a religious group for that matter, from infecting the game with dangerous and tiresome elements? While some may say that such groups would eventually be revealed and banned, how many parents among you would like to risk your son or daughter coming into contact with such spurious elements in an online computer game?

Sure there will be a line drawn at a point. But is it at this point right now? I don't think so.

Are they imposing any beliefs or ideals on unwilling participants? No.

Now if they were going around talking to people persuading them to go to the service, or just spamming around their service everywhere they went, then there would be a problem here. But they are not.

 

[slavoie]

I'm willing to bet that if this orginazation was Muslim, or Buddahs, or anything other then Christian, there would be alot less fuss about it.

 

[Experimental]

As long as they don't bother the non-christians, I don't think they're hurting anyone or anything.
Leave them alone, let them play as they wish.

 

[Cear Dallben Dragon]

my guild worships wisps, and preaches the mass genocide of all people in sosaria as the greater good.

 

[StaticOnAtlantic]

ALL WORSHIP THE KOOL-AID!!!!!





Thats just funny I dont care who you are, Name the man above for 1million!


​

​

 

[wee papa smurf]

ALL WORSHIP THE KOOL-AID!!!!!





Thats just funny I dont care who you are, Name the man above for 1million!


​

​

Jim Jones

 

[Uriah Heep]

LOL
Ya know, I was sitting here trying to figure a tactful way to say something about this, and then realized (again) I'm not a tactful person...

So I will just say, Leave Em Alone!!

Geez Louise, Some peeps can find something to pancake about anywhere at anytime!
Whats it matter if they are having a church service somewhere in the lands??? How does that affect your mining, hunting, spawning, pking???

*shakes head*

 

[shanshu]

Right, because we all know Christians are known the world over for not bothering others.

Religion, of any kind, should not be in an online game.

That being said, this is nothing new. There have been churches in UO for the 10 years that I've played, and I'm sure they were there before that.

 

[Lady Michelle]

correct,
what will be next? A Scientology Temple?, a Jehovah´s Witness House ? MuslimBrother,
AryanBrotherhood ?

NO and NO such REALITY is and should not be in UO !

UO is still a GAME to spend the leisure time, if some player think they have to pray to what ever fetish they like, i dont care what you do in your own private home,but NOT in game !

(remember,many kids play the game,so those things must be stopped at the beginning,
EA/MYTHIC follow the Rules )

You know for sure these other religions are not practiced in UO?
Reality shouldn't be in UO? It is already in UO its called murder,and stealing. It happens in real life as it also happens in UO. How does anyone know how this kinda game playing for kids might end up making them kill someone or steal something in real life? Should those 2 things be pulled out of UO because they reflect reality?

 

[Flora Green]

There have been church services for years in UO. This isn't new at all except to those of you who have never seen the runes or books dropped about it. While I've never attended one myself, I fail to see the problem if they are keeping to themselves and limiting the "preaching" to the time and place designated. If people CHOOSE to attend, shouldn't be an issue. Just as once CHOOSES to attend a religious service in real life.


*I didn't read all of the posts, just putting my two cents in*

ETA: I, and a few others, witnessed one of Origin's "beloved" ranting and raving like a lunatic at Luna bank a few months ago about "god" (their lowercase spelling, not mine), sin, His teachings, etc. The entire time she was invoking "god's" teachings, she was badmouthing other players (this person notoriously harasses people who "threaten" her shop's business), going so far as to call one of them a pedophile (with no proof, of course). The reason I mention this is not only was nothing done by GM's about her religious diatribe, more importantly nothing was done about her overall actions. Nothing is EVER done about it. I find calling one a child molester (just one of the nasty things she's done) far more offensive than someone else setting up a little church service one has the option to attend in a private setting.

 

[hen]

There are some religions whose adherents need to get rl 'loyalty points' by preaching to others. This means they get to place a house in their 'heaven' facet.
This is why they come round your door and drop runes in games. They are kinda camping you but they are easy to ignore in-game or chase away from the door.

 

[DevilsOwn]

There have been church services for years in UO. This isn't new at all except to those of you who have never seen the runes or books dropped about it. While I've never attended one myself, I fail to see the problem if they are keeping to themselves and limiting the "preaching" to the time and place designated. If people CHOOSE to attend, shouldn't be an issue. Just as once CHOOSES to attend a religious service in real life.


*I didn't read all of the posts, just putting my two cents in*

*nods in agreement with Flora*


Flora, many are not worth the bother of reading....

 

[Kafka72]

REPENT SINNERS!!... for the End of Sosarian Days is near!!!

Seriously though, I'm a non-denominational Christian. Probably more so a Christian Anarchist. Christian Anarchy's basic tenet is "justified by faith alone" and is mostly based on some of Leo Tolstoy's writings, namely his book "The Kingdom of God is Within You".

Jesus Christ is Lord!!

 

[Assia Penryn]

Church services have been around for years.

It doesn't hurt anyone, so who cares. *shrugs* If you don't like it, don't go. I'm not Christian myself and I'm not the least bit offended by it.