Update: Crystal Ball of Pet Summoning and PvP

[Gildar]

<blockquote><hr>

Again, maybe it's time for tamers to once again be careful with their pets, kinda like we were before bonding. Don't send them in on suicide runs just because you can yoink them out at will.

[/ QUOTE ]Why should a trip to Despise be a suicide run for a pack of frenzied ostards?
It's an issue with pets running off on their own because some monster who can't see them decides to attack constantly. It becomes nearly impossible to control the pet, especially when you have packs that get attacked by creatures in opposite directions, in situations that would be cakewalks if the pets actually listened to their owners.

I shouldn't need to spend minutes leaving Despise when I'm done hunting just because I have a pack of pets with me.
I shouldn't need to spend minutes getting to a quiet area in Despise when I need to run to the bathroom just because I have a pack of pets with me.
I shouldn't be seeing my pets die because some PvPer knows that they can force my pets to follow them into a trap instead of following me by simply continually attacking them. (I should be seeing my pets die because some PvPer kicked my butt and killed me before killing my pets, or killed my pets while I was there with them.)

It's not about me being able to kill something. It's not about me being able to run away from a fight just so I can heal up and jump back in. It's about me being able to not participate in a fight I don't want to participate in (to some degree), and about me being able to control where my pets go.

I'd much, much rather see the issue of pet control fixed than have the summon timer reduced from 15 seconds... but I know that probably isn't an easy fix.
Yes, reducing the timer from 15 seconds to 5 or so may make this be a less effective fix for the PvP issues. I'm aware of that. But there are issues on the tamer's side that make them ineffective as well that need to be addressed that were being partially mitigated by the pet balls being an instant, frequent use thing.

 

[Duke X. Winter]

I agree 100% with everything you have said thus far, but I wonder if fixing line of sight is the way to go then? It's been an annoying "feature" for PvMers for years. WE can't attack a monster we don't see, but THEY can attack us. It doesn't make sense.

 

[Smokin]

* Pet summoning balls should have a couple second casting animation with the chance to disrupt like other spellcasting.

While I don't really like the disrupt part, unless it does not use a charge. If it does not use a charge I am fine with it. The only other thing maybe they could add words of power of some sort so we can know what it is. The animation could be for a Ethy so I would like to know its not. Hope you know what I mean.

 

[Llewen]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

Again, maybe it's time for tamers to once again be careful with their pets, kinda like we were before bonding. Don't send them in on suicide runs just because you can yoink them out at will.

[/ QUOTE ]Why should a trip to Despise be a suicide run for a pack of frenzied ostards?
It's an issue with pets running off on their own because some monster who can't see them decides to attack constantly. It becomes nearly impossible to control the pet, especially when you have packs that get attacked by creatures in opposite directions, in situations that would be cakewalks if the pets actually listened to their owners.

[/ QUOTE ]
Exactly. These changes were never about balancing pvp on production shards. They are about balancing pvp on Siege, and about making the tamer haters happy. I said before that two things should be fixed/changed with changes like this, but of course they won't be, and now that I think of it, three things should be changed.

1. Skill decay on pet death needs to go. Pet balls helped keep pets alive, if this is no longer going to be possible, the skill decay should go.

2. The chasing a.i. needs to be fixed so that pets don't get hung up so easily on objects and buildings.

3. The auto defend code for pets needs to be changed so that pets will prioritize owner commands ahead of the auto defend. It shouldn't be gotten rid of as has been suggested, or pets on their own will just sit there and allow themselves to be killed, but owner commands need to take priority over the auto defend code.

 

[imported_Ozymandies]

Was just wondering if the 15 sec timer would be on the . . .

. . . petball? use more than one petball.

. . . tamer? cannot summon more than one pet out of trouble.

. . . pet? This seems correct.

Otherwise, I disagree with everything Gildar said about taking a pack of frenzieds around with ease.

OZ

 

[Rykus]

<blockquote><hr>

The problem with that logic Rykus is that on Siege we have been complaining about overpowered pets for years. Only when these dragons were introduced and prodo shard players started to scream did it get looked at.

Hide/Stealth isn't currently a problem on production shards because of passive reveal. It is a problem on Siege. Our chances of getting a fix to something that is a Siege only issue are slim to none.

That is why this petball issue needs to be done correctly and not in a way that makes things worse on Siege.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hear you, and agree to a point. However there is no way that all of the changes that UO, and specifically Siege needs, will happen all at once. Hell, I don't even believe that 90% of the changes that REALLY SHOULD HAPPEN, ever will. I mean EVER. That is my opinion based on watching things here year after year since 1999. With that said, I would rather see a fix that addresses a HUGE issue take place, even if a much less significant issue surfaces as a result.

 

[Guest]

Very cool, thank you!

But i agree 30s delay would be better

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

* Pet summoning balls should have a reuse delay of 15 seconds.

[/ QUOTE ]
This seems excessive

[/ QUOTE ]I agree with Gildar. The rest of the changes have little to no effect on PvM but this change is unfair to those of us who just play tamers and not PvP tamers. Please reduce this time. 15 seconds between pet summons is highly objectionable.

 

[Guest]

All good.
Thx for doing it so fast. I do want us to be able to get the incurens money from the kills our pets do.

 

[Fluffi]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

* Pet summoning balls should have a reuse delay of 15 seconds.


[/ QUOTE ] No - players should have the delay, not the pet balls. Else people will just carry a bunch of them to avoid the timer.

[/ QUOTE ]


Why not make the timer pet-specific, rather than ball or player?


I regularly hunt with a Frenzy pack, and until pet AI is improved to a degree where they actually obey my commands, setting the timer on the tamer is going to result in a lot of dead ossies; in PvM, and certainly in PvP.

I don't look for PvP with the ossie pack, but if I get jumped, I'd like the ability to bring all my guns to bear on the opposition before I have to start waiting-out a timer.


The code already exists for Kits to ignore commands when they are "raging", so why not adapt this to be a petball timer... "Your pet is too busy to come to you now."


Pet-specific timers please.

 

[Fluffi]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

* Pet summoning balls should have a reuse delay of 15 seconds.


[/ QUOTE ] No - players should have the delay, not the pet balls. Else people will just carry a bunch of them to avoid the timer.

[/ QUOTE ]

The delay is on the player, not an individual pet ball. Just wanted to clarify that.

[/ QUOTE ]


If this goes-in unchanged, you have just rendered any form of pack-hunting impossible unless you intend vastly improving pet AI.

 

[Gildar]

<blockquote><hr>

I agree 100% with everything you have said thus far, but I wonder if fixing line of sight is the way to go then? It's been an annoying "feature" for PvMers for years. WE can't attack a monster we don't see, but THEY can attack us. It doesn't make sense.

[/ QUOTE ]It's not the LoS issue that is the problem. The LoS issue just compounds the issue of pets ignoring their owner's commands when they get attacked.

 

[Guest]

This is an over-reaction and far too many fixes. It will balance things way to the opposite pole.

You are right though, this will make pet balls useable for PVM, and less so for PVP. It will make the PVP tamer even more hated because a PVP kill will have to be a pickoff of an injured character or some close quarters ambush and the Tamer will be dead meat if he trys to pursue any fight.

Implementing only two of your four "fixes" would be a much better option.

 

[Gildar]

<blockquote><hr>

The change I proposed was this. Instead of a casting delay, increase the time between the summoning and the point at which a pet can be given a command.

[/ QUOTE ]I personally like the casting delay - there's a casting delay for ethereal mounts, so I don't think your argument flows. If you can't summon the ethereal without being disrupted, you shouldn't be able to summon a non-ethereal (maybe make the timer ever so slightly faster than the ethereal summon timer, since the living horse could be killed).

I think a good "temporary" solution for the 15 second delay between summon problems though would be to change that delay to a "pets cannot attack (through auto-defend, "all kill" and guarding) for 5-20 seconds after being summoned, but will respond to come/follow/guard commands (guard commands will result in a 'your pet appears to be preparing to guard you, but is too disoriented from the summon to react to attacks' - they'll be guarding you, but won't respond until that 5-20 second timer elapses)". That would remove all offensive summon ball concerns, and not overly hinder the tamer's capability to flee with his/her pets when they aren't listening to commands.

 

[imported_Jimmy Pop]

<blockquote><hr>

If this goes-in unchanged, you have just rendered any form of pack-hunting impossible unless you intend vastly improving pet AI.

[/ QUOTE ]Kind of how they rendered my Stealth/Mage obsolete for collecting the Honor stuff (he would EV and hide).

Or how they rendered my Stealth/Miner/Lumberjack obsolete (he would Chop/Mine throughout Fel).

Yeah, I feel your pain. Rather then quit, like most it seems, I adapted. One day though.... one day...

 

[imported_Sarphus]

I think dismount needs to require that the dismounter is visible. That fixes the imbalance moonglowmerchant is talking about.

 

[imported_MoonglowMerchant]

<blockquote><hr>

I personally like the casting delay - there's a casting delay for ethereal mounts, so I don't think your argument flows. If you can't summon the ethereal without being disrupted, you shouldn't be able to summon a non-ethereal (maybe make the timer ever so slightly faster than the ethereal summon timer, since the living horse could be killed).


[/ QUOTE ]

I think that I am coming at this from a PvP perspective whereas your concerns are more PvM...fair?

On Siege, hiding/stealth and dismount are so prevalent. Hiding/Stealth is the new hybrid since the PvP publish eliminated most of the others.

We currently have stealth tamers, stealth archers, stealth dexxers, and thieves in greater numbers than ever before.

Being able to pet ball in a pet is one of the few ways remaining to escape a hidden/stealther/dismounter gank. You certainly can't do it by summoning an ethy. As you pointed out, the casting delay on ethys makes that impossible.

This change as proposed will subsequently make it impossible to summon a ride from the stables to escape.

I do not believe the intent of the changes is to make it harder to stay alive. On the contrary, I believe the intent of the changes is to balance a tactic which is getting too many people killed.

If there is a delay, make the delay similar to holy light where you can see what the player is doing but it doesn't freeze them. Otherwise, from a PvP perspective stealth tamers will be eliminated but stealth archers/stealth ganks will become even more overpowered.

 

[imported_Goron]

<blockquote><hr>


If there is a delay, make the delay similar to holy light where you can see what the player is doing but it doesn't freeze them. Otherwise, from a PvP perspective stealth tamers will be eliminated but stealth archers/stealth ganks will become even more overpowered.

[/ QUOTE ]
You may be on to something with that. Assuming the delay is short enough, if you can move while "casting" the petball that wouldn't cripple it too much.

 

[imported_Sarphus]

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<blockquote><hr>

Again, maybe it's time for tamers to once again be careful with their pets, kinda like we were before bonding. Don't send them in on suicide runs just because you can yoink them out at will.

[/ QUOTE ]Why should a trip to Despise be a suicide run for a pack of frenzied ostards?
It's an issue with pets running off on their own because some monster who can't see them decides to attack constantly. It becomes nearly impossible to control the pet, especially when you have packs that get attacked by creatures in opposite directions, in situations that would be cakewalks if the pets actually listened to their owners.

I shouldn't need to spend minutes leaving Despise when I'm done hunting just because I have a pack of pets with me.
I shouldn't need to spend minutes getting to a quiet area in Despise when I need to run to the bathroom just because I have a pack of pets with me.
I shouldn't be seeing my pets die because some PvPer knows that they can force my pets to follow them into a trap instead of following me by simply continually attacking them. (I should be seeing my pets die because some PvPer kicked my butt and killed me before killing my pets, or killed my pets while I was there with them.)

It's not about me being able to kill something. It's not about me being able to run away from a fight just so I can heal up and jump back in. It's about me being able to not participate in a fight I don't want to participate in (to some degree), and about me being able to control where my pets go.

I'd much, much rather see the issue of pet control fixed than have the summon timer reduced from 15 seconds... but I know that probably isn't an easy fix.
Yes, reducing the timer from 15 seconds to 5 or so may make this be a less effective fix for the PvP issues. I'm aware of that. But there are issues on the tamer's side that make them ineffective as well that need to be addressed that were being partially mitigated by the pet balls being an instant, frequent use thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the fix for this issue is temporarily disable pet auto-defend after a follow command. The symptoms you describe are all symptoms of pet auto-defend being broken. The fix for that is that the follow command disables pet auto-defend for 10 seconds.

 

[imported_Sarphus]

<blockquote><hr>

I agree 100% with everything you have said thus far, but I wonder if fixing line of sight is the way to go then? It's been an annoying "feature" for PvMers for years. WE can't attack a monster we don't see, but THEY can attack us. It doesn't make sense.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree a LoS fix is needed too, but it is probably a more difficult fix than fixing auto-defend and I think auto-defend needs a fix regardless of LoS issues

 

[imported_dukarlo]

Normaly I bash the dev team time and time again but i will give credit where credit is due. If fixes for major issues such as this were adressed in this timely manner alot of the bashing would be reduced greatly. Pet balls were always a cruch for a skilless template. I personaly never minded the fact that tamers had powerful pets. Taming is a hard skill to work. The problem ive had of late with tamers was the whole petball thing. It made no sense that a tamer didnt have to do a single thing other than summoning their pet and then running as far away as possible. Seems to me if a skill with powerful pets is around that character should actually have to do something other than right click to get a kill. I think these fixes go along ways towards fixing tamer lameness,

 

[imported_Sarphus]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

* Pet summoning balls should have a reuse delay of 15 seconds.


[/ QUOTE ] No - players should have the delay, not the pet balls. Else people will just carry a bunch of them to avoid the timer.

[/ QUOTE ]

The delay is on the player, not an individual pet ball. Just wanted to clarify that.

[/ QUOTE ]


If this goes-in unchanged, you have just rendered any form of pack-hunting impossible unless you intend vastly improving pet AI.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hunt very successfully with packs without any pet balls. I disagree...

 

[imported_Sarphus]

I think any movement while summoning pets will be abuseable.

Pet summoning shouldn't be part of offensive combos imo.

 

[imported_MoonglowMerchant]

<blockquote><hr>

I think any movement while summoning pets will be abuseable.

Pet summoning shouldn't be part of offensive combos imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough.

That is why I initially suggested the additional delay to the "all kill" command.

I simply don't want to see petballs eliminated as a defensive tactic. That will prompt a further imbalance in hide/stealth/dismount.

 

[Shelleybean]

<blockquote><hr>

Per pet I can understand, and think is good... I just think 15 seconds is too much until pets start listening to their owners better.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed, but pet AI was brought up before and fell on deaf ears.

 

[Lord ToXeN]

rtlfc

Seems to me everyone that is complaining about the timer has forgotten that you can claim all your pets at once at a stable... why not take them out with you at the start of the hunt, tell them to 'all stay' somewhere safe, then when you need them (invis) log out, then log back in! Oooppss... looks like thats something that needs fixing too!

Oh and don't forget to log out as soon as you die, or your pet gets into trouble.

Auto Stable &gt; Pet Ball.


I like the changes though! Just might wanna look at the above work around

 

[Coranthe]

Leurocian -

Your stated goal is to balance the crystal ball usage in PvP.

With that in mind why aren't these changes being implemented solely as part of the Felucca ruleset? What goal are you shooting for with throwing these rules across the entire game?

 

[Guest]

Not speaking for Leurocian, but in general, consistent code is stable code - setting up special cases is something best avoided unless it's really necessary.

 

[imported_Sarphus]

<blockquote><hr>

Auto Stable &gt; Pet Ball.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I like to dismount people, pop into ninja form and then chase them while repeatedly logging out to put my pets on them...

/sarcasm

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Leurocian -

Your stated goal is to balance the crystal ball usage in PvP.

With that in mind why aren't these changes being implemented solely as part of the Felucca ruleset? What goal are you shooting for with throwing these rules across the entire game?

[/ QUOTE ]

Easier to manage, uniform, code

edit: *oof*...
the white hampster beat me to the punch!

 

[Fluffi]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>



If this goes-in unchanged, you have just rendered any form of pack-hunting impossible unless you intend vastly improving pet AI.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hunt very successfully with packs without any pet balls. I disagree...

[/ QUOTE ]


Without wishing to start a fight and derail this thread, and with the rider that I don't pretend to be Europas' best tamer:

I frequently find that taking 5 lower-end pets into a moderately heavy spawn area results in a couple of the pets wandering-off to do whatever they feel like at the time. Whilst this can be dealt-with most of the time in a solely PvM context, if I am PvPd', I want to be sure that my pets will immediately stop running around and come to me. A single failed command can be enough to tip the balance in favour of my attacker.

I fail to see the problem with individual pet timers, which would allow me to pull the pets away from their combat, and permit me to re-target onto my aggressor.
Once I have pulled the pets to me, I have no problem with waiting-out a timer, but would have serious concerns if the timer applied to the tamer rather than the pet.

 

[Guest]

I think this is just a little excessive.
If you are going to be reveled when you use a pet ball there should not be a delay.
I don't have a problem with a delay per pet.
Or that they can't be used in animal form.
But either reveal the user or delay the summon, but not both.

But this change looks just a bit one sided for pvp and everyone else will need to deal with it.

I don't pvp, but I do have hiding on one of my tamers.
Why should anyone be revealed and delayed because they used a pet ball?
One or the other ,but not both, not everyone is into pvp.

 

[Gildar]

<blockquote><hr>

I think that I am coming at this from a PvP perspective whereas your concerns are more PvM...fair?

[/ QUOTE ]No. I'm coming at this from a mixed PvP and PvM perspective.
You are coming at this from a Siege perspective.
PvP issues on Siege and on production shards are very, very different.


<blockquote><hr>

On Siege, hiding/stealth and dismount are so prevalent. Hiding/Stealth is the new hybrid since the PvP publish eliminated most of the others.

[/ QUOTE ]I understand that, but this is an issue with or without the ability to summon a mount instantly through use of pet balls.
I think this concern should be addressed at least to some degree before removing instant summons from pet balls, but your suggested solution does not sound to me like an appropriate one. Any spell that can be cast on the run is effectively undisruptable, and the disruption is a huge part of what makes this change adequate against the abuse of pet balls in PvP.

 

[Gildar]

<blockquote><hr>

I think the fix for this issue is temporarily disable pet auto-defend after a follow command. The symptoms you describe are all symptoms of pet auto-defend being broken. The fix for that is that the follow command disables pet auto-defend for 10 seconds.

[/ QUOTE ]That sounds like an appropriate fix.

 

[Gildar]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

Per pet I can understand, and think is good... I just think 15 seconds is too much until pets start listening to their owners better.

[/ QUOTE ]Agreed, but pet AI was brought up before and fell on deaf ears.

[/ QUOTE ]That's no reason to not being it up again. It's an issue, and this change compounds that issue by removing the best way to reduce the impact of the issue.

 

[Gildar]

<blockquote><hr>

Seems to me everyone that is complaining about the timer has forgotten that you can claim all your pets at once at a stable... why not take them out with you at the start of the hunt, tell them to 'all stay' somewhere safe, then when you need them (invis) log out, then log back in! Oooppss... looks like thats something that needs fixing too!

Oh and don't forget to log out as soon as you die, or your pet gets into trouble.

[/ QUOTE ]Both abuses of game mechanics that need to be fixed.

 

[Gildar]

<blockquote><hr>

Leurocian -

Your stated goal is to balance the crystal ball usage in PvP.

With that in mind why aren't these changes being implemented solely as part of the Felucca ruleset? What goal are you shooting for with throwing these rules across the entire game?

[/ QUOTE ]PvP happens in Trammel as well.
*points to Guilds*

 

[Shelleybean]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

Per pet I can understand, and think is good... I just think 15 seconds is too much until pets start listening to their owners better.

[/ QUOTE ]Agreed, but pet AI was brought up before and fell on deaf ears.

[/ QUOTE ]That's no reason to not being it up again. It's an issue, and this change compounds that issue by removing the best way to reduce the impact of the issue.

[/ QUOTE ]

i was agreeing with you, but whatever.

 

[Gildar]

<blockquote><hr>

I'm just saying pet balls aren't needed to be competitive on a tamer. They're a convenience.

[/ QUOTE ]I can agree with this, but it's exceedingly annoying when you're in a high-spawn-count area with packs (or PvPing against people that know how abuse pet AI) with a pack. In low-spawn-count areas, it's barely a problem at all.

 

[Llewen]

<blockquote><hr>

Pet balls were always a cruch for a skilless template... I think these fixes go along ways towards fixing tamer lameness

[/ QUOTE ]
And this is exactly what we tamers are up against. All kinds of players that think they are 733t, that have all kinds of opinions about taming, and basically want it removed from the game altogether, that don't have a clue about the template, or what kinds of skills are involved in playing a tamer template well.

<blockquote><hr>

Seems to me everyone that is complaining about the timer has forgotten that you can claim all your pets at once at a stable... why not take them out with you at the start of the hunt, tell them to 'all stay' somewhere safe, then when you need them (invis) log out, then log back in! Oooppss... looks like thats something that needs fixing too!

Oh and don't forget to log out as soon as you die, or your pet gets into trouble.

Auto Stable &gt; Pet Ball.


I like the changes though! Just might wanna look at the above work around

[/ QUOTE ]
There are plenty of situations in which logging out and logging back in is a sure fired way to die. I've done it before, I would generally rather have my character die than have my pets die, but this comment again, shows a great deal of ignorance about tamers and taming in general.

As for having a "look at the above work around

". There are a ton of problems with removing auto stabling, from lost pets, to pets going wild, to dealing with crashes, to skill loss in pets - which is patently unfair. But of course, if you want to remove taming from the game altogether, this would certainly be a good start...

 

[Guest]

One of the potential bonuses that should come out after this fix, is the long needed look at pet AI. I do sympathise with you and Fluffi, I have my pack and I know how annoying the little kits are running off. I tend to hunt in very low spawn areas to minimise distraction, as I don't carry pet balls, but I'd really love it if our packs all responded properly to our commands. It would really add to the pleasure of hunting with them.

At the least you'd expect the pack to try remaining as a pack, rather than running in off in 5 different directions

Wenchy

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Hail and Well Met,

We want to thank everyone for giving us your input on the Crystal Ball of Pet Summoning and its current use in PvP. After assessing your feedback, we have decided that the following adjustments are needed:

* Pet summoning balls should unhide the summoner when attempting to summon her pet.
* Pet summoning balls should have a couple second casting animation with the chance to disrupt like other spellcasting.
* Pet summoning balls should have a reuse delay of 15 seconds.
* Pet summoning balls cannot be used while in animal form.

We feel these changes should balance the Crystal Ball of Pet Summoning in PvP while having minimal impact in PvM. QA is currently reviewing these changes internally. Once the changes pass internal review, they should appear on a public Test Center for an upcoming publish.

Once these changes are on Test Center, please be sure to send us your feedback on these changes.

Good gaming!

[/ QUOTE ]


Awesome job, im so HAPPY and almost off my chair to see such great player introduce ideas be implemented into the game where they really need to be. i mean its stuff like this that can really make a game better

 

[Clx-]

<blockquote><hr>

players should have the delay, not the pet balls. Else people will just carry a bunch of them to avoid the timer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep. And 15 seconds is nowhere near long enough anyway.

Edit: Not to sound like i'm complaining. It's definetely a positive step but at present isn't enough to fix the problem of tamer pvp.

Edit again: You simply cannot add this while neglecting to do something about the ridiculous auto-stable-on-logoff for pets that is constantly abused in PvP.

 

[Guest]

Thanks for listening!

-Skylark

 

[Guest]

Leurocian, I think I love you. Just kidding, but seriously, you're my favorite dev now (tied with Draconi anyway

)

 

[Basara]

Gildar, it's not 75 seconds for a pack of 5.

There's no delay BEFORE you trigger, it's AFTER.

So, it's at most SIXTY seconds (plus ball activation time if its separate from the 15 second timer), and that's if you summon in all the pets, which is only going to happen with non-ridable pets.

For ridables like the frenzied, it's only 45 seconds
- Ride one frenzied in, then you summon #2, wait 15 seconds, summon #3, wait 15 seconds, summon #4, wait 15 seconds, summon #5.

It's a common logical error - after all, there's been plenty of times where things with 5 minute timers between them (escorts, repeated log ins and outs on same account, etc.) are counted here on Stratics as being 5 minutes longer than they should, because the person assumes the first one coming after a timer instead of before, or that the counter after the last has some sort of effect.

E=Event, x-Timer

Assumptions:
xExExExExE or ExExExExEx = 5E+5x

Real events:
ExExExExE(x) = 5E+4x
(last x in prarentheses doesn't matter if one is done with the process)

 

[UncleSham]

thanks for taking the time to deal with this issue . altho i think there are some other issues that should be dealt with first . ie speed hackers , lag generators etc. those affect everyone on all shards.

cant use a petball while in anifimal form ? ok that will help a little .(but not really needed if you put in a reuse delay)

you want to balance the stealth tamers ok . but i think the summon delay and animations are a bit much.

this animated disruptable delay pretymuch destroys the template . the whole point of being stealth is suprise and since you cant stealth a pet you need to call him in quick.
you put a visual delay even for 2 secconds you blow the suprise . people are gonna be a few screens away in 2 secconds (speed hackers will already be in their house sipping tea)

if that pet doesnt get his suprise attack hes pretymuch done . you can easily outrun him . yes it can even be done on foot . the problem we have is someone running allongside spamming petball every seccond.(constantly reissuing the suprise hit.)

if you put in even a 10 seccond reuse delay , they cant do that.

i dont have stealth , but i can ditch a dragon easily in 10 secconds and get away. (unless someone is constantly on my tail with a petball.)

just put in a reuse delay , simple enough .

besides, these other delays ARE going to hurt pvm tamers .(especially packs) animal AI seriously needs to be looked at or at least leave us the ability to call them back when they deside to be stupid.

a summon delay of even a couple secconds will also kill the pvp defensive summon .(if im trying to run away and frozen in place for 2 secconds im toast)

putting in a simple 10 seccond REUSE delay PER PET would stop those abusing the pet ball and still leave them usable in pvm and defense.

let them have their one suprise . (stealth archers, dexers, mages and every other stealth combo get it )

thank you for the effort just dont go overboard like so many times in the past.

not to mention beeing easier to impliment getting us a fix faster.

carefull with that nerf axe eugene

 

[imported_SavageSP]

I definately think Petballs needed to be addressed, but if all 4 of these go in its a bit of an Overkill IMO.


* Pet summoning balls should unhide the summoner when attempting to summon her pet. <font color="blue">-This one is Overkill and combined with disruption below is gonna be Bad for PvMers also </font color=blue>- <font color="green"> This one should be removed </font>

* Pet summoning balls should have a couple second casting animation with the chance to disrupt like other spellcasting. <font color="blue">-I think this one is Overkill also, all its gonna do is make the tamer go off screen to summon so he doesnt get hit or he will just drag em around all the time. Take the disruption part out and it seems a bit more fair. </font color=blue> <font color="green"> Remove the Disrupt part and add an *emote phrase* that can be seen by everyone even if the player is hidden </font>

* Pet summoning balls should have a reuse delay of 15 seconds. <font color="blue">-This was Needed and if you have 5 Ossys like ive seen in other posts, I highly doubt your burning that many charges when you can simply log out a screen or so away to pull all your pets at once </font color=blue>

* Pet summoning balls cannot be used while in animal form. <font color="blue">- This was Needed to deter Running in form chaining the petball, it wont hurt PvM and the lag spike and mana changing forms will make it a tad harder to cycle animal/human back and forth</font color=blue>

 

[Lord_Puffy]

thank you very much, and for the few crying saying we wouldnt be heard...


eat it... siege perilous- real uo

 

[Llewen]

<blockquote><hr>

Gildar, it's not 75 seconds for a pack of 5.

There's no delay BEFORE you trigger, it's AFTER.

So, it's at most SIXTY seconds (plus ball activation time if its separate from the 15 second timer), and that's if you summon in all the pets, which is only going to happen with non-ridable pets.

[/ QUOTE ]
Whether it is 75 seconds, or 60 seconds, is fairly meaningless. This change is going to make playing with more than one pet much more difficult. The timer should be per pet, not per player.