Thieving in Trammel.

[canary]

I suspect Cal wishes he'd said no as soon as he was prodded about "classic". I would much rather someone say "No, we're running the show and we'll do things how we are doing them", than "if" or "maybe". So long as there's a carrot dangling, people will try to grab it. Providing no definitive resolution to the question, only annoys both sides.

True, and I agree.

I think the lack of any ongoing content or even simple acknowledgment on the 13th anniversary of this game shows that, indeed, resources for actual commitment to classic shard needs isn't going to happen. The men upstairs want stuff done as cheap and fast with as minimal people on it as possible.

 

[copycon]

If "hot air" is what it takes to show that there is still a huge following for it, so be it, and if they want to ignore it, that is on them.

I do know that lipstick and mascara can only make a turd look appealing for so long, and I think anyone that doesn't realize that is going to be surprised.

 

[Evlar]

If "hot air" is what it takes to show that there is still a huge following for it, so be it, and if they want to ignore it, that is on them.

I do know that lipstick and mascara can only make a turd look appealing for so long, and I think anyone that doesn't realize that is going to be surprised.

Although I agree with the sentiment, even throwing more "hot air" at them isn't going to make a jot of difference. This debate and show of support for something "classic", has been rumbling on for years.

Nobody can show exact figures detailing why people have stopped playing Ultima Online. Nobody can produce numbers that can prove that a "classic" option would have a huge following, much as I'm in favour of the concept. Any numbers that anyone cares to come up with, are just more "hot air".

What it does boil down to, is if the number crunchers and bean counters, believe there's enough potential, to providing the additional funding & staff it would require to launch any "classic" option. I think Cal has already made that clear in response to the continued prodding, with mention of a "focus group". He also mentioned, although not using these words, but no amount of "for" or "against" banter, here or on any other game forums would influence any decision or proposals they might make to EA.

Therefore, whatever you or I say "for", or anyone here says "against", won't make the slightest bit of difference, to Cal, or the bean-counters. Believe me, I've been involved in exactly the same debates with other members of these forums, you're having now.

I'm waiting for closure "by the end of the year", just like anyone else that's interested in an official "classic" option, or even those so vehemently against the idea. In the meantime, if I want a fix of UO, then I visit pre-AoS free servers. Otherwise, at the moment, I'm playing a couple of online strategy based MMO's.

I've loved playing UO over the years and kept playing for long enough, post-Ren/post-AoS - even though I wasn't happy with the changes particularly. It was only housing and other players that kept me interested.

In it's current format, I won't be back. Continued shoddy and unfinished releases, poor to inept customer service, monotonous gameplay*, was the straw that broke this camel's back. Only the option of something pre-AoS orientated, would bring me back, even putting up with the scant regard that EA Games generally and continually shows its paying customers.

*By "monotonous gameplay", what I'm referring to is my belief that whereas in the earlier years, the players shaped the game and the gameplay, I feel more that now, the game itself has shaped the gameplay and the way players play the game. Yes, there's still a lot to do and see, but it all seems to revolve around the importance placed on obtaining items.

There's many here who will disagree with that sentiment of course, but different strokes for different folks... Whatever floats your boat.

 

[Evlar]

...as for "thieving in Trammel", the response you'll get here, is a bit like the response a Republican speaker would get at a Democrats conference (0r vice-versa), over in the States.

Prepare for the heckling!

 

[copycon]

You are repeating the exact point that I've been trying to make all along. Thank you.

My goal is not to convince EA. I think that job has already been done for me, or lack thereof. My goal is to convince others who have an idea about UO that it was always the way it is today and should continue to be, hence the argument.

 

[copycon]

...as for "thieving in Trammel", the response you'll get here, is a bit like the response a Republican speaker would get at a Democrats conference (0r vice-versa), over in the States.

Prepare for the heckling!

Agreed. Heckle away.

 

[Evlar]

You are repeating the exact point that I've been trying to make all along. Thank you.

My goal is not to convince EA. I think that job has already been done for me, or lack thereof. My goal is to convince others who have an idea about UO that it was always the way it is today and should continue to be, hence the argument.

I and many others have tried doing it until we're blue in the face though.

Shouting at deaf people (IE- those "happy" with how things are now), doesn't make much difference.

What I always do find amusing, is that when anyone shows a modicum of support for the way things were, or a classic shard, they're usually pointed at as being one of those "griefer" types, who only had fun at the expense of others. Granted, that did go on, but it's funny being tarred with the griefing brush, when arguably I've seen more griefing, cheating, scripting, etc... than ever went on "before".

Interestingly, I would imagine that on any "classic" shard, there would doubtless be the same kids (and older people who should know better...) who are happy to use the latest "hip" expletives, but for anything else that plagues the game, in a truly open sandbox, the players can actually do something to solve problems themselves.

Therefore I think there would be much less griefing, scripting and cheating, on any "classic" shard.

Simply put, neither side really understands what the other enjoys when it comes to genuine gameplay elements. Both are happy to apply labels to the other's preference, but both are normally way off the mark.

Anyway, enough from me. I've got an alliance raid on Ogame to organise

 

[copycon]

I can't help but think that some naysayers have manipulated facts of the way UO was into disaster and have literally scared others into thinking that UO was a nightmare of a game to play back then.

I was not a PK, or a thief, or any of those "notorious griefer" people who are so feared today for their play style back then. I experienced it all, and loved it, and when it was taken away it destroyed the whole reason I played UO to begin with.

There is a reason why we want it back... and I want to do my best to try and make people understand that reason. Even if they are deaf...

 

[Kiminality]

I experienced it all, and loved it, and when it was taken away it destroyed the whole reason I played UO to begin with.

That's exactly the point (bold for emphasis).
For the people that enjoyed that style of gameplay, it was good, or even awesome.
For those that didn't, it wasn't.

Therefore, the stories of it being the best of times and the worst of times are all true, because it's something subjective to the player.
Just as someone could come in today, hear the stories and jump on the "It's terrible" train, someone could come in and hear things that are relevant to their interests and go the other way.

 

[Aboo]

I know Chad.

What he did proves nothing, I was doing the same for two years.

Tram sucks and needs a drastic change.Trammies will get used to being stolen from in Tram, they won`t leave because of their houses full of neon robes.

You are soooo incredibly wrong! Trammel players will NOT get used to being stolen from in Trammel. They will leave. It's been pointed out MANY times previously but you seem keen on ignoring the truth, but Trammel was created for a reason and there is definitely a need for it. If you take back what was given to the players (i.e. Trammel) and try to make it into something they were trying to get away from (i.e. Felucca) you are going to have people leaving. That is just a fact.

I have played from the first day UO opened it's doors/shards. I can tell you that had they not developed Trammel, I would not have been here for 13 years. When I feel the need to play "like in the old days", I go to Siege. The people who play there, for the most part, are awesome. There is a community spirit that you can't find anywhere else.

When I want to just enjoy the slower more relaxed side to UO, I go back to LS/Trammel side.

You CANNOT force your playstyle on others just because you want it. As Kelmo has pointed out NUMEROUS times, you have options. You just choose to ignore the options because you appear to be the kind of person who wants everyone to do it your way or not at all. That won't work in UO. The great thing about UO is the diversity! You can choose how you want to play and NOT have another's playstyle forced upon you. Since you don't seem to be able to accept that, maybe you should find another game?

 

[copycon]

That's exactly the point (bold for emphasis).
For the people that enjoyed that style of gameplay, it was good, or even awesome.
For those that didn't, it wasn't.

That is why I'm still trying to figure out why EA felt it necessary to butcher UO to appeal to these people while there were so many other games that provide the exact same experience.

Therefore, the stories of it being the best of times and the worst of times are all true, because it's something subjective to the player.
Just as someone could come in today, hear the stories and jump on the "It's terrible" train, someone could come in and hear things that are relevant to their interests and go the other way.

Agreed, but people don't have something to compare their experience to now, do they? That's why I'm here.

 

[Sevin0oo0]

If they'll give you the time of day, ask one of these people about stats, Im sure they'd have accurate #'s
Peter Ausnit, Vice President, Investor Relations 650-628-7327 pausnitATea.com
Tricia Gugler, Director, Investor Relations 650-628-7327 tguglerATea.com
Jeff Brown, Vice President, Corporate Communications, 650-628-7922 jbrownATea.com

 

[Kiminality]

That is why I'm still trying to figure out why EA felt it necessary to butcher UO to appeal to these people while there were so many other games that provide the exact same experience.

I guess it was and/or of
1.) The people who didn't enjoy it outnumbered those that did.
2.) Those in charge at the time weren't too fond of it.

Agreed, but people don't have something to compare their experience to now, do they? That's why I'm here.

I have no idea whether you want thieving in Trammel or not...
I think allowing thieving in Trammel would be a monumentally bad idea.
I think allowing thieving in Felucca would be awesome (not just bandages and power scrolls).

 

[copycon]

<Sarcasm> Oh, don't you know that thieves can steal anything from other thieves or guild mates? </Sarcasm>

Why steal if you can only steal from your brother?

Personally I don't care whether or not thieving is allowed in Trammel. I think it is common sense to know that is a bad idea. What I do care about is that type of rule being implemented elsewhere.

 

[Babble]

Don't forget that at the time they introduced Trammel they had hardly any knowledge.
There was EQ, Ac, maybe a handful of other games trying to make money.

EQ was quickly gaining subscriptions and I guess one of the uo bosses asked why UO did not gain as fast? Then we got the super suggestion as all internet connections sucked that they would not make a new map .. no they would make a copy (cheap bastards).
And I remember that a pvp switch was not what they wanted and they fully expected at least 50% of the playerbase to stay in Felucca.

And Trammel came not because of thieving... Uo had gained subscriptions and with it came complaints about pking, luring, blocking (is why Trammel has no pushthrough), tinker traps (was/is bannable in Trammel still) and any other form of 'griefing'.

Could they have handled it better? Yes, with a bit of planning, surely
Did they have any real idea what they were doing. No

 

[copycon]

I don't think pleading ignorance is valid when it's been happening for over a decade.

 

[Babble]

But you calso cannot unroll systems. Once Trammel was there it cannot be undone without pissing off the majority of the playerbase.
They opened up Felucca for full pvp anyway, that they are incompetent to add meaningful pvp systems though does not help to get more people to Felucca.

Thieving is a '*******' in mmos anyway as it is neither pve nor pvp, so no wonder they nerfed it.

 

[copycon]

Didn't they unroll systems to create Trammel in the first place?

Trammel should have been "nerfed" so people were forced to go to Felucca to do things like hunt, farm or make profit (NPC and player vendors). Sure, "bank sit" and have your house and belongings in Trammel. If you want to hunt, you have to risk loss.

That is an example of a simple solution for a problem that was/is not very complicated.

 

[Babble]

No, because that is/was not their definition of Trammel

Trammel is a pve facet where griefing is absolute forbidden
Felucca is a pve facet with enhanced options for pvp

Those definitions are old, I guess Felucca's one changed with AOS, but those definitions are the last I read.

The developers thought that those who wanted some risk (estimated 50%) would stay in Felucca and the rest would go to their pink Trammel land.
Not understanding though that most people preferred to enjoy their playstyle in Trammel and Felucca was more like something endured than enjoyed.

Still they went overboard with Trammel and the poor thieves
Thieves should at least have been able to steal gold in Trammel! (you can get about 300 gold max a try I think)

 

[Evlar]

Personally, I've always wondered, with many aspects of UO (not just thieves), if they're going to spend the time nerfing something into obscurity, why not just take it out completely. Instead, something relatively useless is left there to fester.


After all, if you're gonna have a dump, flush the toilet afterwards, right?

 

[copycon]

No, because that is/was not their definition of Trammel

Trammel is a pve facet where griefing is absolute forbidden
Felucca is a pve facet with enhanced options for pvp

Those definitions are old, I guess Felucca's one changed with AOS, but those definitions are the last I read.

The developers thought that those who wanted some risk (estimated 50%) would stay in Felucca and the rest would go to their pink Trammel land.
Not understanding though that most people preferred to enjoy their playstyle in Trammel and Felucca was more like something endured than enjoyed.

Still they went overboard with Trammel and the poor thieves
Thieves should at least have been able to steal gold in Trammel! (you can get about 300 gold max a try I think)

Clearly it's in their hands to change the definition as they see fit, isn't it?

I think it is important to realize when you have made a mistake and to rectify that as opposed to letting it inflate until the experience in-game reaches the point of monotony. It seems to me that there is very little dynamic today and it is almost entirely based on rinse and repeat.

I believe that people that play UO today are misled and are quickly losing focus of what UO is. Just look at the posts on here for example. People's biggest concerns seem to be getting more "garbage" added to the game that I presume will draw their attention for a few days at most, and quickly become irrelevant. I think you know which threads I'm referring to...

 

[Babble]

Personally, I've always wondered, with many aspects of UO (not just thieves), if they're going to spend the time nerfing something into obscurity, why not just take it out completely. Instead, something relatively useless is left there to fester.


After all, if you're gonna have a dump, flush the toilet afterwards, right?

Nerfing things is bad enough. Taking them out is something most games try to avoid.
Only know of swg which removed whole classes and that did not go over well.

 

[Babble]

But why would they change it.
It is working and with a few developers you can keep it going?

UO has not been inovative for a decade now and sits back copying things.
And UO is the better sims Online for sure

 

[Nexus]

Couple of ideas on this....

This one is about forcing a style of play upon others that do not wish it.

That already has been attempted, and is being attempted. It's called Champ spawns. Saying that you can't force or attempt to force a play style on others isn't true. EA already does it.

Now I love playing a Thief, it probably is the most inclined to RP of any playstyle in UO. I use the numerous sites both past and present dedicated to the UO PvP Thief as evidence. Even those that PvPed for loot back in the day were at their core thieves, just the same as if you murdered someone for their wallet, yes you'd be a killer, but you'd also be a thief.

I asked this question in the "ask the devs" forum, and now I`m asking you.

What I want is stealing allowed on all Tram-ruleset facets.
Perhaps, even looting players` corpses once they turn into bones, as it once was.

I guess there are more "feluccan" activities (excluding killing) that you would like to see avialable in Trammel.

I think that alot of trammel players would actually enjoy the new possibility of stealing ANYWHERE.That would actually make thieves feel like real thieves again.

I care the most about the opinion of real Thieves, who have been playing this type of character for years, but I know that what the majority of players think and want is most important.

Well, I noticed that most of my threads get locked, so I`m asking that guy who flames my threads to stop doing it for a while.I mean, come on, I want to see some nice discussion here.

I do play a thief and I don't think this is a great idea, nor a practical one. People don't just run insurance in Felucca, they also love it in Trammel so it's a matter of waiting on a good steal with 10x more ground to cover searching for it.

And I also don't see a Classic Server in the future, so that's not an option. They can consider it all they want but if they are not going to waste the resources on it unless they think it will be a success. And there in lies the problem, there is no firm consensus on what makes a "Classic" server. It could be anything pre-Last Publish and still fall under the definition. Pre-UO:AoS and Pre-UO:R are the two front runners in the debate, and even as a thief I'd a UO:R era server over any earlier. Trust me if they took it back to early UO:R rules I could make more Gold than Pre-UO:R and that's a fact, I made a fortune then stealing, I could do it now. Additionally UO:R era was the last time EA wasn't attempting to lure players into a play style they didn't want, sometime between Publish 5 (April 27, 2000) and Publish 6 (August 1, 2000) would do me just fine.

 

[WhityJinn]

The developers thought that those who wanted some risk (estimated 50%) would stay in Felucca and the rest would go to their pink Trammel land.
Not understanding though that most people preferred to enjoy their playstyle in Trammel and Felucca was more like something endured than enjoyed.

Then why ALL!!! the other facets are tram ruleset?Chinatown, Illshenar, Luna ban...errr, I mean Malas?Wtf?

I believe that people that play UO today are misled and are quickly losing focus of what UO is. Just look at the posts on here for example. People's biggest concerns seem to be getting more "garbage" added to the game that I presume will draw their attention for a few days at most, and quickly become irrelevant. I think you know which threads I'm referring to...

Well said..

I`m repeating my question, why those random guys (I think this fits more than "Devs") made all the new facets with tram ruleset?

I can think of SO MANY ways to enhance gameplay EVEN without removing trammel...like allowing insurance to be made ONLY at banks, or perhaps making insured items stealable, all facets except Trammel to be Fel ruleset etc..

I guess the only reason is that they don`t really care.They don`t even know, WHY should they care about such things.
Maybe they are good people and good developers (doubt that, with that mindset of theirs) but they don`t belong in UO...they should go make some colourful game with elves and humans who band together to fight Evil, with cute anime faces and...WAIT..OH CRAP! -- http://www.g4g.it/download/comment.php?dlid=2709&ENGINEsessID=f93f3cff6b3ef6201f8e65b26a8f2621

 

[Lord Frodo]

I can think of SO MANY ways to enhance gameplay EVEN without removing trammel...like allowing insurance to be made ONLY at banks, or perhaps making insured items stealable, all facets except Trammel to be Fel ruleset etc..

I like this idea. It will drive almost all the players back to Tram and WBB will once again be crowded.

Please answer this question.

"If Fel is so great and everbody wants this rueset so bad then why is Fel so dead?"

 

[WhityJinn]

"If Fel is so great and everbody wants this rueset so bad then why is Fel so dead?"

It`s not just the ruleset of a particular facet.

People actually want the Old UO - its spirit.

Not the kind of game you have now, that revolves around pixelcrack, no true fun or danger, only repetitive actions day after day.

And even if all of them now go to Fel, it will not be the same.Stuff will be insured, and to get a decent suit they`ll have to go farm fat monster bosses in Trammel..

All the fun is gone, not only the full-loot/pvp-everywhere.Many things were taken out of the game, and I don`t understand why.

Hmm..I don`t know other reasons why those hardcore people don`t go te Felucca.

I play in Felucca only, and have only one character.It`s hard, and I have to run for a few minutes to the nearest shrine quite often, but that`s how I like it.

I don`t understand too, why all the roleplayers here play on trammy facets.

Since WHEN Roleplay is about acting, like actors on stage in a very bad play?

To me and to my rp-mates roleplay was always something inside the game, not a completely different game on a secluded facet, so no one can kill or grief them.

We roleplayed in Felucca, so we learned how to fight griefers and l337 pvpz0rs who just came to lol at us and kill us.And hell, we spank them hard.

Nowadays I see a bunch of strange dudes who run around Trammel talking in broken shakespearean old english.They don`t have any real challenge or anything like that, I really can`t figure out what are they doing.

All those RP guys could go to Fel.Make their Towns there.Roll there, drink in Tavers there.And perhaps, more people would come.
But, that`s not something they will or want to do.Being a RPer doesnt mean you are NOT a carebear, ye know...

__
Being a RPer in my opinion is not only about running around half-naked with a fishing rod and 33.5 swordsmanship and 46.7 Cooking.

It`s a proud title...so, if there is some guild, liek, The Light`s Bane, and they RP, and they wear shadow iron Chaos Shields and summon The Great Nether Dragon every sunday on the chaos shrine...
...ok guys..come out in Fel.Show me that you are REALLY warriors, that you can not only kick other rpers ass, but can also smack the crap out of those l337 dewdz in Fel who run around Yew gate and talk in "lol`s and rofl'`s".

If you cant and dont do that, then you are just hot air clad in shadow plate armour with a cool guild name, nothing more.

Rp nowadays is cut from the rest of the game.Nowadays RPers think that rp is like playing on stage.

It`s a shame, I wouldnt feel so ashamed even if I got ra**ed by monkeys.

If they can`t see that, then I feel disgust and feel sorry for them.
And that`s why I don`t rp with those guys in their shelterd from all danger trammy areas.

All of the above answers your question, Lord Frodo, and shows my feelings toward those trammy guys who call themselves RPers.

 

[UOKaiser]

"If Fel is so great and everbody wants this rueset so bad then why is Fel so dead?"

It`s not just the ruleset of a particular facet.

People actually want the Old UO - its spirit.

Not the kind of game you have now, that revolves around pixelcrack, no true fun or danger, only repetitive actions day after day.

And even if all of them now go to Fel, it will not be the same.Stuff will be insured, and to get a decent suit they`ll have to go farm fat monster bosses in Trammel..

All the fun is gone, not only the full-loot/pvp-everywhere.Many things were taken out of the game, and I don`t understand why.

Hmm..I don`t know other reasons why those hardcore people don`t go te Felucca.

I play in Felucca only, and have only one character.It`s hard, and I have to run for a few minutes to the nearest shrine quite often, but that`s how I like it.

I don`t understand too, why all the roleplayers here play on trammy facets.

Since WHEN Roleplay is about acting, like actors on stage in a very bad play?

To me and to my rp-mates roleplay was always something inside the game, not a completely different game on a secluded facet, so no one can kill or grief them.

We roleplayed in Felucca, so we learned how to fight griefers and l337 pvpz0rs who just came to lol at us and kill us.And hell, we spank them hard.

Nowadays I see a bunch of strange dudes who run around Trammel talking in broken shakespearean old english.They don`t have any real challenge or anything like that, I really can`t figure out what are they doing.

All those RP guys could go to Fel.Make their Towns there.Roll there, drink in Tavers there.And perhaps, more people would come.
But, that`s not something they will or want to do.Being a RPer doesnt mean you are NOT a carebear, ye know...

__
Being a RPer in my opinion is not only about running around half-naked with a fishing rod and 33.5 swordsmanship and 46.7 Cooking.

It`s a proud title...so, if there is some guild, liek, The Light`s Bane, and they RP, and they wear shadow iron Chaos Shields and summon The Great Nether Dragon every sunday on the chaos shrine...
...ok guys..come out in Fel.Show me that you are REALLY warriors, that you can not only kick other rpers ass, but can also smack the crap out of those l337 dewdz in Fel who run around Yew gate and talk in "lol`s and rofl'`s".

If you cant and dont do that, then you are just hot air clad in shadow plate armour with a cool guild name, nothing more.

Rp nowadays is cut from the rest of the game.Nowadays RPers think that rp is like playing on stage.

It`s a shame, I wouldnt feel so ashamed even if I got ra**ed by monkeys.

If they can`t see that, then I feel disgust and feel sorry for them.
And that`s why I don`t rp with those guys in their shelterd from all danger trammy areas.

All of the above answers your question, Lord Frodo, and shows my feelings toward those trammy guys who call themselves RPers.

Do you understand what you want? It's like me sayin I want siege to be trammel ruleset only. I want to allow no Player killing in FEL and i want to make sure everyone plays my way. This is trying to force your opinions on the way the game should be played on everyone else.

We were there when there was no trammel and when there was only silver vanqushing weapons that nobody used cause they afraid to lose them. It wasn't so hot. It was annoying. Though everyone is entitled to there opinion and there playstyle who am I to say to someone you can't play this way cause I don't find it enjoyable or in real life don't play football because I don't like it.

You should be happy with siege or fel. But you realise most players don't play there because thats not there prefered playstyle so you want to force them into it. It's not going to happen or else you lose all trammel players and you will ahve to go to freeshards to get your playstyle as UO servers have shut down.

On that note Dev are messing trammel up as well by introducing FEl ideas into it.

 

[WhityJinn]

We were there when there was no trammel and when there was only silver vanqushing weapons that nobody used cause they afraid to lose them. It wasn't so hot. It was annoying.

Exactly, because of the Trammish attitute.I was never afraid to lose pixels, and played to my heart`s delight and carried my vanq and silver weapons.

So...it was not annoying to me, and it was fun.

Don`t know what felt those guys who hoarded stuff even back then and were afraid to death of losing their precious silver katanas.
I simply wasn`t one of them.

And yeah..laughed at your post.
"we were so afraid of losing our silver pitchforks so we were very glad when they introduced insurance, and now we are happy because we don`t lose anything".

Anyone for Comments and Rating this game, dudes?

p.s

You should be happy with siege or fel.

and yea..do you feel privileged somehow somehow to tell me what should I be happy with?I kinda have a head and brain of my own, so I can decide myself.
Thanks for trying to tell me what I should be happy with.

 

[Coppelia]

UO has a lame PvP/PK system. Stop selling the "old days" like it was somehow balanced, fair, risk vs reward or whatever joke we're used to hear here. It was working so well that 2 years later, there had to be a separation.
It's been 10 years of Trammel safety and players enjoy it. Deal with it.

But yeah, you should all go even wilder with wall of texts. It's going to change something someday.

 

[Dryzzid of Atlantic]

I remember pre-AoS UO.

There wasn't anything to do.

It was awesome.

That was sarcasm.

 

[copycon]

UO has a lame PvP/PK system. Stop selling the "old days" like it was somehow balanced, fair, risk vs reward or whatever joke we're used to hear here. It was working so well that 2 years later, there had to be a separation.
It's been 10 years of Trammel safety and players enjoy it. Deal with it.

Yep, they enjoy it so much that they are complaining left and right and are leaving for greener pastures in droves. Who are you kidding?

I think the proof is in the pudding. "Old" players liked UO and still would if it were still the same experience. New players like it for a certain period of time and leave when they realize that other games give them what they want better than UO while we "old" players are still here clamoring.

How many swords can you collect before you become bored with monotony?

 

[Petra Fyde]

I think this has gone on long enough