The field spells seem to have a longer range than other spells. I was able to cast walls and para fields near the edges of the new larger game windows, while other spells such as fireball seem to have the old shorter range
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BrianFreud
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That's kind of stretching the point. These are supposed to be upgrades to existing Doom items; they should be powerful. There's over 300 possible properties at this point. There's so many possible properties where you could pick any 2 and a given slot and make the same argument, and on just that basis claim "Overpowered!".
Cut for pointlessness. Numbered because frankly you need the help.
1) At no point have I said there's no intensity.
2) Measuring the intensity was not related to whether it is or isn't overpowered, measuring the intensity (and the fact they can only be guessed), was related to your 'exercise' in which you wanted to compare them to other items. Another item was mentioned, which you then went 'x doesn't count, and y doesn't count, so the Halo clearly has more. In other words you brought it up and then mysteriously dropped it without doing any actual comparison 'best guess' or otherwise.
3) For all you wrote, you still avoided answering the question, but yeah why bother with actually posting something factual when you can act like knowing some vague term of insult makes you all superior.
Ohhh! So it's like when my 14 year old niece comes home from school and tells me some trendy new word kids are using to call each other ****s, and I'm like why don't you just call em a ****, at least then they'd know wtf you were talking about. And she rolls her eyes and we lol about it.
BrianFreud
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More like your 79 year old grandmother; it's not exactly a new term.
In the past hour they changed the dark father. He now pulls you in and there is no limit on how far you are away.
The only way now to take the dark father is with a group of necro fighter cross healing. Unless there is a bug I'm unaware of.
We tried the old gate trick but that didn't help since he pulls you in.
He is very similar to the lich on the roof but with a lot of hit points.
The only way now to take the dark father is with a group of necro fighter cross healing. Unless there is a bug I'm unaware of.
We tried the old gate trick but that didn't help since he pulls you in.
He is very similar to the lich on the roof but with a lot of hit points.
GOOD! Suck all those lousy multi-boxers in!
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Why? You get sucked in, you run away quickly. It's not instant kill.
BrianFreud
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And in the process, you get disrupted while you're trying to get back out of direct damage range, then healing to recover. Personally, I think any mob that uses a pull-you-in ability, it should be treated as a spell with a recovery time, not something they can use, then instantly deal direct damage or cast an area effect spell to harm you.
Wrong. Intensities were given as a way to measure if it the overpowered by adding to the total number of intensity a suit can have with the all the mods, especially on a head piece.
The comparison, was just another way at demonstrating the difference...and you failed to come up with one that's even close.
That's why we moved on, because YOU stopped trying to argue the Hephaestus in comparison....
If you want to keep making that argument by all means. Most of mods on the shield can be found on all other items. And even then the mods that are in both items like lmc is 8 on the shield and 15 on the halo. I pointed this out before and you cued in on only the self repair and reflect physical damage being trash mods, remember? You called it cherry picking, and I refuted since I compared all the mods. I mean if you want me to go back and cut and paste for you, I'll be happy too. You had no argument for it then either.
But since you're clearly a pictures type of guy, tonight I will go through and show you, for your benefit.
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No, because we are not only discussing those two properties but all the extra ones included with it, and the extra intensities.
Upgrades can be done without increasing the meta. Since fc1
Is rare in main armor slots, it would have been fine with just a couple of those mods. I mean you could then turn around and cite the helm of swiftness but again not even comparable due to the amount of intensity of other mods.
Really I could have made my point just to compare head pieces, but the fact you could not cite items near the intensity of this piece speaks for itself.
You best argument was slims veil which has a cap of 500 intensity. Just due to the amount of imbuing/reforging I do, I know that fc1 generally already takes up around 100 intensity. Even if you could imbue sdi on it, I believe the cap is 12%. Pretty sure the lmc cap is what, 8?
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I don't have a 79 year old grandmother. It is to me, though admittedly I'm neither 14 or 79, and probably don't live in the same country as you, but have managed to get to this age without ever having heard it be used.
I don't know what you were trying to say there, perhaps have another go?
You didn't demonstrate any difference because you haven't compared what you believe their intensities to be.
Uhh, nope.
All of the mods on both items can be found on other items.
Can't understand your wording, so, no?
You didn't (and still haven't) compared anything. Maybe your understanding of the word compare is different to mine. The answer I'm looking for out of you, to support the argument that you brought up, that it is 'overpowered' (as per your definition; far over the intensity reached by other artifacts, aka 'meta disrupting levels) is for you to total up the intensities on both items for ALL of their properties. That is a comparison. Saying RPD/SR don't count, just because you don't use them, and saying DCI doesn't count because it's available elsewhere, is the very definition of cherry picking.
PS. I already know the difference isn't very much because I already worked it out at the start of your 'exercise', but as you clearly didn't bother to... ah, ya know what, f it, I'll just wait for you to catch up.
This has been evident through the entire course of our conversation.
That's because I asked you to compare the items...remember? That's where you came up with the examples and called it an 8 year old exercise...again, you failed and went on to discuss the Hephaestus.
Swing and a miss. Fc1 and 20 sdi are not common on ALL other items.
Sure you could argue 10 parry isn't either, Id give you that.
No I have not directly compared the intensities directly to one another, I was betting on you understanding the difference of 8 lmc vs 15 lmc. Clearly that was my mistake.
I'll get the pictures out later.
I'd believe that. You remember what was on the piece?
This of course will be misconstrued as evidence to the contrary.
How wouldn't this affect the meta?
I don't remember off hand the piece that was ~1.4k item weight, but I'm 100% positive it was a Brittle item.
This is probably the most useful "clean" item I have to compare with the Scholar's Halo. I didn't want to compare it to an item that isn't "clean" because it wouldn't be fair
Which has 1170 item weight not enhanced, It would be 1276 if enhanced with barbed leather.
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but you have the new mage hat, which opens up jewel slot for an additional 60 to 100 skill points rather easily. especially with some of the other new artifacts weve gotten, like the new bracers or kotls ring. for a couple hundred mil, you could fit in upt to about 120 skill points.
add in some of the other defensive systems, like 70 dci suits (also content we should be expected to need) and the chances of being killed by a pull in are extremely low.
the fact that you can add defensive skills and stats much more easily to a mage now, using the new artifacts provided warrants the higher difficulty.
when making new content, an 800 skill template should be expected as the norm now when choosing difficulty. Doom is supposed to be some of the most difficult content in the game.
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@Lord GOD(GOD)
Your comparison of the Heph intensity: 758 + Self repair 5 (sorry didnt do the pictures on this one. You can probably do that if you disbelieve these numbers)
110 intensity 15 dci
100 intensity sc
140 intensity fc 1
100 intensity 15 rpd
100 intensity phys resist
93 intensity parry
110 intensity lmc 8
5 intensity fire resist
+self repair 5
Your comparison of the Heph intensity: 758 + Self repair 5 (sorry didnt do the pictures on this one. You can probably do that if you disbelieve these numbers)
110 intensity 15 dci
100 intensity sc
140 intensity fc 1
100 intensity 15 rpd
100 intensity phys resist
93 intensity parry
110 intensity lmc 8
5 intensity fire resist
+self repair 5
Yeah, I don't understand phrases like "if it the overpowered" & "you cued in".
You missed out that SC comes with -1 FC, so for it to have 1 FC and SC it must logically have 2 FC. Which brings that up to 898 + 5 self repair, which I would guess is 100%, making 998. (Edit: you could really take the 5 for fire resist off as it is a base property on heater shields.)
You've also added in the resists on the Bandana and not factored in that it has 40 base resists out of that 75 which means it only equates to 233%. So 1257 is more like 1144. Difference of 146% intensity... and this is comparing an item with resists to one that is mostly without, and their only average resists at that.
This difference qualifies as 'meta breaking' to you?
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I agree that dying is pretty unlikely just not with the points you made.
You don't really have the hat until you get the drop. So it's a chicken/egg argument.
You can only armour refine on non-med suits which means it's pretty much out for Mages. People wouldn't really bother with 70 DCI anyway as higher resists are more beneficial overall.
Not every setup uses a ton of skill increase items for various reasons so I wouldn't say that's the norm, it depends on the template as a whole. Doom is still absurdly easy compared to a lot of other fights on any hunting template. However some of the restrictions they've put in are really stupid, no Armour Ignore? No Provoke? No Peace? No rhyme or reason for any of these to be in place. The Armour Ignore one pretty much specifically nerfs it for Throwers as their strongest weapon option is AI, at least Archers can Yumi it up with Double Shot still. I think they should have copied some AI's from Blackthorn Captains, Abysmal Horrors should have been at least as strong with their casting as the Mages, the Undead ones should have had the skill loss that Juo'Nar etc have, I'd have liked to have seen them have Mysticism for Purge at least too, and some occasional form of anti-Life Leech it makes too much stuff a walk in the park.
Mainly I'm interested to know if they've fixed the Warriors Gift bug yet. Until they do I've taken it off of every character before it hits my shards.
The shield did not start at -1 since its not imbued, so you do not add 140 intensity. So still 758. (let alone not all shields have -1 on them, entirely different argument, especially if you're still including self repair 5)
I'll give you the 40 points of base resist, thats actually correct. You can keep the 5 on fire.
However, self repair doesn't appear to have a measurable intensity that I can find. It removes upon imbuing, so you could argue it's MAYBE 50 intensity tops or no intensity at all. It's amusing you'd choose to pick 20 intensity per, (extremely unlikely). So I'll even give 50 to you, 10 intensity per at 1 weight. 808 intensity.
So even if you took off say 200 intensity for 40 resists (this is a variable since some of these intensities are around a 4, but hey I'll give that to you too), I'd still say 1057 is a significant difference from 808.
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lol, are you for real. You've just based your entire argument for their intensities on screenshots of the Imbuing menu. Though I notice you left this one off...
Not every shield has -1?... Uh yeah, ones without SC, because SC comes with -1 FC.
If you're going to use the argument their not Imbued so their intensity's don't count then both items are at 0.
If you go and reforge something that gives 100% or higher intensity 5 SR is one of the resulting mods. Happens fairly commonly when trying to make 100% elemental weapons.
Yes because that shows you the intensities you dope.
Neither item we are discussing are imbued, we are merely calculating the intensities...
Besides not all items you imbue need to have spell channeling imbued on them...
Edited: just read the last part, reforging is not imbuing. And if you imbue it, they disappear. Regardless we can assume they have some value, 20 intensity per? Not likely.
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This has been resolved.
No it shows you're still cherry picking your arguments. SC -1 is A property.
That is a fact. Just not one relating to anything being discussed.
No, reforging is not Imbuing, well done for stating another unrelated fact.
Yes, if you Imbue a reforged item SR does indeed disappear, well done for stating another unrelated fact.
Meanwhile back to the related topic, reforging for 100% intensity when trying to make elemental weapons, sometimes rolls SR 5, this is what's called a fact. So regardless of whether an item is Imbued, Reforged or magically pulled out of a dragons ass by a dev you can logically deduce that 5 SR is 100%. I genuinely don't know how you're not getting this yet.
Regardless, I'm done, post whatever remaining speculation and nonsense you like. You're too stupid to bother with.
Lol, you can't call everything "cherry picking" just because it doesn't support your argument.
Only imbued items count the -fc, when you add 1 fc to zero it out, towards the intensity. You can't imbue 2 fc.
The difference of reforging is you cannot support -1fc from spell channeling and still claim the item is imbued since it clearly has self repair on it...
So make up your mind.
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@Lord GOD(GOD) just look at the intensity of this shield from a monster. It does not include the 140 from the "-1 fc" since it isn't imbued. Instead, it removes the self repair and adds the 140 intensity.
the FC1 is counted in that it has 5/5 properties, However, since Self repair is removed after imbued, it counts as 0 Property count & 0 intensity But if you try to add say RPD, the item weight should be 401+ whatever the % rpd you're attempting to add to it.
The only items that have Spell channeling with +1 FC have +2 FC or some of them were pre-patched, and the +1 FC didn't count as a property (this is how some reforged weapons are SC +1 FC mage-weapons some shields exist as well.
I think you misunderstood.
I know it added the 140 hence the 401 intensity. (It was faster casting by the way)
He's saying it should have 280 intensity for faster casting since it has spell channeling and a positive fc1. It doesn't or the intensity would be 541 (551 was a typo)
He was grasping at straws to add total intensity to the Hephaestus as a way to discredit my argument.
Only, his argument fell flat on its face.
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If you could imbue FC +1 on it to make it SC, +1 FC, 11 hit, 9 dci it would be 541 item weight. (FC is only +140)
The shield already has FC1 though which makes its current item weight 401 before you imbue it, it doesn't change because you can't make it +2 FC, and it already has FC to counter the -1 applied with spell channeling.
SC = 100 (also -1 FC)
FC1 =140 - if you imbued it with FC1 again, the only thing it would be is remove Self Repair and add an "Imbued" tag to it as the item weight would remain as 401 though, because FC1 is already there.
11 HCI = 95
9 DCI = 66
= 401 item weight.
Items with spell channeling and no -1 or even SC with +FC do have 140, 280, even 420 item weight counts from +FC because it has FC2 (1 for the -1 from SC and 1-2 to make it positive FC).
Example.
Staff of the Magi has FC 2 240 weight.
Upgraded Staff of the Magi "Kotl Black Rod" (whatever it's called) = FC3 420 weight.
Nah, I hit imbue fc1 which shows it would go up to 401 intensity.
You can't imbue fc 1 more than once.
So if it ever had fc -1 the best you could do is break even. Edit ( you can see this hasnt happened since the item isn't imbued tagged at the top)
When test center comes back up for transfer I'll show you. I don't want to
Imbue it live to make a point.
The shield = 401 item weight right now.
you don't need to xfer it to test, just pull up the imbuing menu with +1% RPD as your option as opposed to FC (the shield only has 4 "real" properties) because Self Repair has no weight or property count to it. It should show as 5/5 property count & 407/400 weight if you pull the menu up with +1% RPD.
The shields weight if you make the shield as follows:
SC
FC1 (imbued to add FC) it would still display exactly the same as it already does)
11 HCI
8 DCI (Imbued to lower by 1% so you could fit the +FC)
would make the shield 393/400 item weight.
Yeah this is close but isn't entirely accurate.
The difference is you can imbue the fc 1 on the first shield, you cannot on the imbued one.
This is the imbued one I just did, you can add in the 95 intensity for HCI 11
Hehe, FC is already on the imbued shield And on the first shield you posted though.
If you could imbue FC1 say, 3 times and have them stack, don't you think some of the 4/6 chiv users would just run with 3 FC shield + 1 town bonus?
The only differences with the imbued shield you posted in this quote, is that it is Excepetional & is missing +11 HCI on it (because you can't get it above 5% on shields anymore).
FC1 is on both shields already. (becasue if it didn't have FC1 it would be SC with a -1 FC and would also have 140 item weight less than it has.)
.
Really the only thing I'm arguing is the 140 weight difference.
The imbued shield adds 140 to break faster casting even with 3 mods. Which is currently at 306 + 95 hci = 401. So itd be 4 mods @ 401. To add fc1 again to make it would be 541 intensity.
The first shield to add positive fc1 only brings the shield to 401 and removes the self repair.
Yea, that's correct except the last part.
the first shield already has FC1 to "break even". adding it again would just keep the item weight the same as it is prior to imbued, since it can't stack.
This is why I suggested to check the Imbuing menu with +1 RPD as the selected mod to imbue (it could be any property, you could imbue on a shield that the shield doesn't already have) and it'll show 401 item weight + whatever the property you choose to imbue on to it would add. Which would display in the imbuing gump 5/5 property count with 407/400 item weight.
the reason is because the first shield you posted says it's 4/5 properties. Self Repair doesn't show up on that at all, Which means the shield already has FC1.
Yep, ****, as painful as this is, I was wrong.
It did not add the extra fc to casting when I tried it.
Thanks for correcting me.
BrianFreud
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It's totally OT, but do any of you have a link to anywhere that breaks out how to calculate weights for each mod, if I were to write some sort of calculator for Stratics? Knuckleheads' is good, but I don't see a way to use it to figure out weights for stuff already on an item.
Nah man, sorry I just use in game imbuing system.
Gives you the weight and intensity of each item.
you can use it to find the weight of items with 5 or less properties, although I think it's still limited to imbue-able properties only. if you want to find the intensity of items with more than 5 properties, you would just have to add them all together sometimes with different item types to account for properties that can't be imbued on certain things i.e % SDI on armor.
I assume you mean to find the weights of non-imbue-able properties, like Casting focus (any of the SA properties) and the new ones coming with this publish?
You'd have to go by the imbuing gump in-game and subtract the weights from whatever other properties might exist on the item(s) in question... I don't know if you can even "imbue" the new artifacts, to get an accurate item weight for things like "Hit Sparks" etc. but as far as I know those properties aren't going to spawn on "loot", at least not as of yet.
Though Things like Reactive Paralyze, Blood Drinker etc. those shouldn't be too hard to get the weights for, just a little time investment with reforging items with those properties and less than 5 other mods so you could see how much weight those properties take.
It's the properties that spawn in increments that could be difficult, like Hit Fatigue, Hit Mana Drain, Splintering Weapon, Casting focus, Soul Charge, & Eater types...
It could be an interesting project though. =D
BrianFreud
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Yes, that's what I meant. My plate's pretty full, but if folks wanted to start collecting those numbers - say at BrianFreud/Imbuing Weights - Stratics Community Wiki | Stratics Community Forums - I can put together a calculator.
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Hrmm, I wonder, what exactly was the reasoning behind the splintering weapon change "Splintering Weapon will no longer proc while using disarm"?
I mean, was it really a problem because of it being overpowered, or was it because of how it works when combined with Archery? (I know it's because of Archery.... no one plays Melee only (lol?).
Just another blanket fix that will need reverted later...
Edit: they could have just as easily set splintering proc chance to 0% if the users ranged weapon skill = X amount or higher. It's always been fixes like this that always end up causing "Mages" to be better than dexers.
I mean, was it really a problem because of it being overpowered, or was it because of how it works when combined with Archery? (I know it's because of Archery.... no one plays Melee only (lol?).
Just another blanket fix that will need reverted later...
Edit: they could have just as easily set splintering proc chance to 0% if the users ranged weapon skill = X amount or higher. It's always been fixes like this that always end up causing "Mages" to be better than dexers.
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splinter is in essence bleed and slow walk without the mana cost, use of a special OR skill requirement (mage weapon procs just as often as 120 swords). It needed this nerf.