Prediction: Kiss UO Goodbye unless SA is embraced

[Flutter]

I do believe it's completely disgusting that they are thinking about not putting UO expansions on the store shelves anymore. The whole reason I play this game is because I saw it on the shelf at walmart and it looked interesting. How many more people are like me and just impulse buy games they see on shelves.
How much of a death sentence is lack of PR and shelf presence?
Disgusting they aren't willing to invest the money for "packaging"....
Don't get me started.... I am going to bed!

 

[Babble]

Bye EA UO


How will UO get new customers when other 'sandbox' games will release in the next 1-2 years
All with new graphics and new systems and new bugs instead of UO's old ones.

Darkfall a fantasy MMORPG inspired by UO (though I think it will not live up to the hype)
http://www.darkfallonline.com/

Mortal Online fantasy MMORPG inspired by UO (unreal 2 engine and looks good though a summer 2009 release planned)
http://www.mortalonline.com/

Earthrise a SF MMORPG inspired by UO and EVE if I remember right
http://www.play-earthrise.com/

Fallen Earth another SF MMORPG inspired by UO
http://www.fallenearth.com/


And there are some other sandbox games in development in the spirit of UO, so how will UO manage to get new players convinced to play UO instead of those new games?

With a new expansion like SA some new overpowered/unbalanced skills, broken content and a graphical update to 2002 instead 2008?

Good luck EA and as to Marc - he is the Boss of the online division.
An online devision of Pogo, DAoC, UO and WHO
One is no MMO and the two others failing and WHO still needs to show it is not just an overhyped EA product. So Marc better fights for any MMO his company has, or he is soon king of nothing.

 

[Hoffs]

There are certainly those who will not be willing to look at the new client under any circumstances, however I do believe that the game really needs a single, slightly updated client in order to effectively utilize its limited resources and help attract new players.

However, I was excited about KR when it came out, but with all the bugs and problems with it, some of the awful bits of artwork and the fact that there was not a lot of legacy functionality meant I really didn't bother.

So yes, it is important that the new client is embraced, but is is equally important that the developers make a better job this time and do not rush out a beta product. Also, they should ensure that there are as many legacy operations available as possible to ease the transition for the old timers (being able to press alt-p to bring up the paperdoll, etc).

However much I love UO and have no desire to play any other MMORPG, using a client that one dislikes is no solution. I would never touch games like WoW, not necessarily because of the gameplay but because I really hate the modern 3d graphics in these games.

 

[T_Amon_from_work]

I don't disagree, nor do I disagree with those who feel that making SA 2D compaatible will help. However ... survival of UO is really threefold.

Improving the client and graphics
Altho it has good points, KR is essentially a bust because of how it was released ... no argument from me. So if SA truly corrects the current KR defects and improves it as a 3D client it could be a good thing. Maintaining the older 2D client is a backward-compatibility bridge to lower-end machines or folks who cannot handle the 3D or whatever. Potential for a wider player-base.


Drawing in new players
Warhammer and DAoC at least are in the EA/Mythic stables. There have been some posts about (perhaps) subscription bundles. So, let's say this for example: sub bundles of any 2 of War, UO, DAoC gets a 25% discount off the sub rates; 3 gets a 35% discounted rate.

Would that draw players/revenues? I think it could. Myself I would be more than happy to pick up a DAoC sub again if it's bundled with a game I like. I like UO ... however budget allows one pay-to-play at full rate. <shrug> Discounted rate I could certainly work with.


Marketing
This is the killer. Without marketing, even in the above item, nothing will help. UO needs shelf presence, TV/radio presence ... something - even if it's a passenger on War or DAoC. It'll get out there in the eyes of a public that may have never seen it before or are just now coming to realize that these games can be fun!

What EA Marketing needs to remember is this: UO is the first, oldest and most immersive MMORPG on the market. Everything since late 1997 has been a lesser version in one or more aspects. Everything.

 

[Harlequin]

I don't understand why the graphics in KR is that bad. Everything is so dark, blending between roadways and surrounding terrain is overdone until it's barely distinguishable, character looks blocky/edgy.

The face selection in the paperdolls are ok, but if you put on a robe, it looks look like you used too much starch while ironing.

If you ride a llama/beetle/swampy, it's really ugly. Your feet touches the ground and the mount looks like it's stuck halfway through your body.

Whatever solid graphics your have done to the buildings/monsters etc, I only see them some of the times if at all. While I will see my character every single second that I play. Tell me which makes a deeper impact?

Some people have posted really good graphics that they have done. And looking at games like Titan's Quest, Sacred etc, I wonder why can't it be done that way? I'm happy with that. Very good isometric display that's 3D.

The company that made TQ went bust early this year, perhaps they can poach some of the graphics team? And please, ban whoever that changed the mighty daemon into a "mini daemon on high heels" from the UO graphics team.

 

[hawkeye_pike]

Although KR has many graphical flaws, I still like it very much better than the old Legacy Client. However, I don't play KR because you have some disadvantages, from house decoration to pvp. Remove these disadvantages and improve graphics a bit, and KR would be my client of choice.

I trust that SA will fix these issues.

Still, we need more players in UO. Player activity is decreasing, and we lack of new players. Without new players, UO will die. Slowly, but it will die. That's why I always say: EA should focus on a nifty client and on improving the game for new and medium players. And if it is done exceptionally well, a new era of Ultima Online could start with Stygian Abyss.

 

[laurlo]

I hope to like SA, but I still play 2d and do not see me switching to the KR client anytime soon.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

As ridiculous as this argument is (given that SA is being released with 2d support), after Jacobs's comment proved me so wrong on what I've been saying for years, I'm ready to believe anything.

-Galen's player

 

[Aran]

If the 2D client goes, I go. SA can take a hike.

 

[Flora Green]

"I just don't buy the whole Chicken Little thing." (pure denial)

Not denial. Simply not panicked.

 

[Balian of Asgard]

I love 2D and I am so glad that SA will be available for 2D. I will certainly be there to buy my expansions.

i'll still be playing this game as well

 

[Lynk]

Apparently over 1/2 of the Stratics population is a business wizz.

These posts make me el oh el.

 

[It Lives]

What UO needs is

STOP KISSING VETERAN ARSES and

Sorry, I got to be stubborn here but high end content to keep vets Playing/paying is beyond doubt, needed. Just look at all the request for new content you put out Hawkeye.

Rewarding long time Customers is a must in any venture.

 

[It Lives]

100,000 x $12.99 x 12 = $15,588,000 that UO might gross is less than .09% of the market

As long as Uo is a piece of the pie no matter how small and returning some profit it will be around. I am in no way worried.

I guess I have been in denial since 1998.....

 

[Belmarduk]

Ok why did KR fail ? From my point of view it had 3 major reasons:

It was rushed out with way to many bugs and the graphics were not pleasing to the majority ---------> Which resulted in too few players using/trying KR ---------> Which resulted in dev-hours to KR being cut -------> the move where KR was totally put on hold was the final nail in the coffin.

If this fiasco, which was the fault of:
1. The devs/Ea
2. Players who didnt give KR a fair chance from the beginning even though the start was bumpy.
,
happens again I think Uo will truly be cancelled - I am 100% sure of this !!!

SA will only suceed if both factors sum up !

 

[MoonglowMerchant]

What UO needs is

STOP KISSING VETERAN ARSES and
START WORKING ON IMPROVEMENTS FOR NEW PLAYERS.

We don't need not new landmass.
We don't need new uber artifacts.
We don't need any new dungeon.
We don't need new skills.
We don't need another yellow-pink dotted rare ten-leafed plant seed.
We don't need another 5-wheeled violet chariot as veteran rewards.

We need IMPROVED CONTENT for new and medium players.
We need MASSIVE IMPROVEMENTS to the existing world.
We need intelligent and random quests.
We need quests introducing new players into the complex world step by step.
We need more to do in Britannia than just hacking and slaying.
We need riddles, adventures, events.
We need better monster AI, dynamic spawns.
We need improved and more interesting dungeons.

SEIZE THE OPPORTUNITY OF STYGIAN ABYSS and improve UO at the same time, so new players will come AND STAY with this wonderful game.

There won't be any new players. The game is only going to be available by download.

 

[Beefybone]

"I'll play the SA client if it's better than 2D. If it's not, then I won't."

Yes. I will use the superior product. If they are incapable of producing a superior product when they need to, then they can go right out of business and deservedly so.

 

[Harb]

I guess I'm sitting between the two ends on this one. I agree that EA is revenue focused, and believe that's the proper place for them to be. So in the symbiotic relationship between dev/ Mythic and we as players/ subscribers, we have to "feed" EA in one manner or another. I don't agree that a choice of client is pertinent to that issue. It's a little difficult to assess actually, SA as a "box" may have been a metric for continued support, but sans a box which does seem a pre-production decision, whatever metric is being used remains rather elusive. I do think the issue of sustain or move on is far more simple than the various "tiers" have made it. Should EA and Mythic communicate their requirements specifically, we can choose to either meet said requirements or let it go. In such a scenario, I don't suspect there would really be much "danger" of shutting down at all.

 

[ColterDC]

If this fiasco, which was the fault of:
1. The devs/Ea
2. Players who didnt give KR a fair chance from the beginning even though the start was bumpy.

Don't even try to blame KR's failure on the players.

It was 100% EA's fault. They released a **** poor product.

Hell to top it off there were several people who wanted to try KR but couldn't even download the piece of crap. Which wouldn't have been a problem if EA would spend 1% of their Madden budget to put a some UO boxes on the store shelves.

Someone should write an article about EA and UO entitled "How NOT to run an online gaming company"

 

[Lord Drakelord]

I been playing since 1999, started with one account and today we have five, but if there is any forcing as they did when UO 3D came out, [where we were forced to play in 3d to travel to Ilsh] then we are not upgrading a dang thing, much less our PCs. We happen to like the old 2d and WILL remain in 2d till they turn off the lights, when that happens we just walk away as there are no other games out there that we will play in this house.

 

[Diomedes Artega]

I liken UO to the running store that I used to work at. So think of SA as the running store. It was new and few people knew about it. The initial people came...family, friends and so on.

Hence our game.

Family and friends will give it a try.

So then a great location we had. People drove by, people saw it. People stopped by. This is a mistake not to have the game where people can see it...in stores?! The game has to be seen to be known about...for, lest we forget, most people don't know about the game.

So after all those people who initially come out of curiousity and friends and family, then what? Then what?

I think given the poor job Electronic Arts has done...I would not hold my breath until the point where they do an effective advertising and marketing campaign.

You know something, I knew little about World of Warcraft when it came out until I saw a commercial on youtube or something original like that...I don't recall where. But, that would be an idea. The graphics, fixing the cheating, and ALL that stuff we don't like...will need to be remedied in order to help market the product though.

Can't market a pair of 1980's Larry Bird looking Converse shoes when you are living in 2008. Even Crocs are so yesterday. But, to put the game out with so little changes...IF that were to happen well...whatever would happen...would indeed happen.

So, come on Electronic Arts, Mythic...whoever and at least improve the graphics and make all the BASIC changes that are needed to help our game. I have faith but...I already said that...the graphics and everything are so...90's!

 

[LadyNico]

Like Flutter said, Leurocian is on it.

Although there are other potentially interesting rumblings from deep within the belly of the beast, the simple knowlege that Leuro is on it really is sufficient to give me renewed hope.

You know, there may yet be a way fans of both clients may be satisfied.

*watches and waits*

 

[Locker]

A bunch of invented premises followed by questionable conclusions does not a prediction make.

 

[Lord Gareth]

I have played since 1997. I have been to all the main forums such as UHALL in the past but got stuck on here cuz its the most active heh...anyways


Id say around late 1999 these topics poped up.

"The End Of UO Days"

The year is now *looks* 2008. 9years later and the game is still around.

Over the past ive heard this.

T2A OMG! Is something wrong?

Trammel....Oh thats it UO is done. Its going to shut down. No one is going to go to fel and they will only play in "CARE BEAR" land....hehe carebear hehe sorry the memories....

Ultima Online 3D... Uo is going under if this client doesnt work you can bet UO will be gone forever.....

*Looks for the UO3D client*

Ultima 2 is going to destroy Ultima Online. Its going to take the player base.
*Ultima 2 has been closed*


Samari Empire... EA doesnt care about our USA servers anymore. They are going to shut down USA servers and make us play Japan ones....

(Im sure im still loging into Chesapeake)

UOKR!!!! This is it guys... the population is down and this client sucks and omg UO is done!!!

*Looks around* Oh Look EA is STILL spending MONEY on UO TOWNHALLS! Shesh UO must be broke to be sending them around the country!!!!

OMG they are moving to the east coast. Some of the Devs arnt coming people that have been with UO forever! The game is over they arnt coming and UO will die.

*Logs into Ultima Online*

SA.....Oh no if they dont like this client UO wont be around next year. Oh no its like UO3D ALL OVER AGAIN!!!


The fact is for years and years ive gotten icqs, emails, ingame and forum messages about how UO is going to die and how its going under and THIS IS ITS LAST YEAR. What I would look for if UO was to shut down is this...

*Closing of smaller shards.

*Town halls no longer exsist.

*No Five on Fridays (unless Jeremy leaves that wont matter)

*No Live Events.

*I rarely see anyone loged on.

* Jeremy Quits and goes to another game!!!!

As long as Jeremy is around I feel safe. Yes she is cute but thats not the point . She seems to have a love for the game and I don't think she would let us down. No if she quits or goes to another game Im hitin up anywhere I can sell my accounts and gold.

**********************************************************

I have come to notice a massive return of players in the PaxLair Statehood on Chesapeake. I have noticed its going with new people. I have also seen this in other communties such as Guardians Gate on Chesapeake. Yes I know some Fel PvPer got tired and came to RP for a bit but allot of these people reactivated accounts and or are new.

I think UO will be around for awhile. It seems more populated to me now then it did seem last year at this time.

 

[Clog|Mordain]

Gareth is right. The amount of times I've heard that UO is done for since i joined in 2000, but guess what? Its still around.

 

[Loquacious Wrath]

Gareth is right. The amount of times I've heard that UO is done for since i joined in 2000, but guess what? Its still around.

Yes but consider the source this time. I didn't hear this from a friend or some poster. I read with my own eyes, from the head manager himself, that EA wanted to shut down UO recently and he talked them out of it. If you think this is the same as all those "other times" you and Gareth are referring to, I think you are mistaken.

But afterall, I could be the one mistaken. However logic seems to point towards the current playerbase embracing SA so EA can justify investing further money into UO for purpose of expansion.

 

[Galad]

With sub numbers continually going down and probably at an all-time low, EA will get it's way sooner of later. Probably sooner.

 

[a slave girl]

Its comments and attitudes like those below that help prevent UO from obtaining growth vital to its survival in the MMORPG market:


"I just don't buy the whole Chicken Little thing." (pure denial)

"If you don't like UO, go find I game you do like." (This is currently happening now)

"Who is Mr. Jacobs and what exactly did he say? Can you give me a link?" (here is your link http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=107633)

"UO is horrible and it will die soon." (non-constructive negativity)

"i dont play the KR client nor do i plan to play the SA client, as long as they keep 2D in the game i'm good to go" (blind attitude that will never allow UO to grow)

"so thats never going to happen" (more denial, 100k subscriptions is not enough to employ UO staff indefinitely)

"due to people like me" (people like this stifle UO's potential in today’s MMORPG market)

"I'll play the SA client if it's better than 2D. If it's not, then I won't." (a common 2der's attitude that is influencing EA to ditch UO)

"I am not bashing KR but my experience with that left me bitter" (people are still bitter from AOS too and can't let go. Perhaps a RL personal issue...)

"give me UO like I pay for and bought in the first place" (Game experience may change during play and for business growth, the client must change too)

"what would be the point in accepting yet another bad product (if indeed it is bad) just so it can propigate itself?" (The answer is to make money so programmers/artists can be hired so eventually everyone can be happy. Without money, no UO.)

"I refuse to play UO:Ugly (KR). " (12+ million MMORPGers refuse to play 2d UO because it is ugly)

"Surely if that was the case there would be a formal ultimatum?" (Not likely. Did EA inform Sims Online users before they were erased into obilvion? No.)



Please understand that I wish UO to improve and remain an MMORPG. I am a realist and a RL entrepreneur. I could site many examples of how I could be wrong on this, but I could site many more example of how I could be correct. The probability of UO remaining this time next year will be greatly influenced by two factors. They are the amount of cash available to EA at fiscal year’s end, and the reasonable forecast for next year’s revenues. If the UO community is full of threats of “quitting subscribers”, there will not be enough justification for further money or time spent on UO. Conversely, if the UO community is receptive and positive to the final SA client, EA may listen.

UO has endured up to this point, but you cannot deny UO’s current staff is lacking in manpower. Money is required to hire warm bodies. EA must see growth, not flat or declining revenues. Maximum downsizing has already occurred. Most importantly, EA executive “doom saying” has already been made known to the EAMythic. Denial at this point is foolish.

Do the simple math on these round assumptions:

12,000,000 x $12.99 x 12 = $1,870,560,000 of potential MMORPG dollars to be had

100,000 x $12.99 x 12 = $15,588,000 that UO might gross is less than .09% of the market

Once you subtract inflationary overhead (servers, upkeep, bandwidth, salaries, etc.) from these figures you would see that UO is probably not profitable enough, even after the recent downsizing, for EA to justify investing further capital. Mark Jacobs has put his neck out on the chopping block and received very little gratitude from us for being able to even log in to 2d or KR today. The man receives threats from the sniveling worms of the MMORPG world all the time, but clearly is working to the best of his ability within the narrow guidelines set forth by EA.

There is only one path in which we, the UO community, can help Jacobs help us. We must continue spending money on UO when SA is released and embrace it with open arms because once EA decides to pull the plug on UO, I predict the illegal (free) servers will be shut down by EA through litigation. By using contingency lawyers, illegal UO Providers will be the last revenue streams EA will exploit before closing the door on UO forever.

The collective opinion of 100k UO subscribers must convey to EA that they believe in UO:SA so that EA will at least consider reinvesting one more time. The EAMythic staff has already done all they can do to convey this to EA. Please let UO live on by changing your attitudes and giving UO:SA the hope it requires. Give the new client praise, even if it means indulging in sacrifice, humility and compassion. If you cannot do this, UO will die. Please embrace the new client when it arrives and hope for the best.


(…and to Pojman5, stop posting in this thread if you wish to be off topic)

(If we had more attitudes like Dermott of LS, UO would be better off)

"I refuse to play UO:Ugly (KR). " (12+ million MMORPGers refuse to play 2d UO because it is ugly)"


This is not what I am hearing from players in WoW and Warhammer that I mention UO to.

Most of them have not judged UO 2D to be ugly because they've never HEARD OF UO.

 

[Nexus]

once EA decides to pull the plug on UO, I predict the illegal (free) servers will be shut down by EA through litigation. By using contingency lawyers, illegal UO Providers will be the last revenue streams EA will exploit before closing the door on UO forever.

That is seriously doubtful, 10+ years it's been going on, that implies consent, add that to the fact that the emulation servers don't use any of EA's code, they simply interface with the client they aren't breaking copyright laws. You can right a program that interfaces with another without it being illegal, that's why it's RoC and ToC violation not a criminal offense. Emulators themselves don't alter or modify the client. Simply put they are in a grey area and the implied consent from EA's inaction against them the past decade would probably lean the judgment in the EMU's favor.

 

[Dermott of LS]

...

I believe probably the only thing that will make Mythic/EA/UO take action AGAINST emulated servers is if the person/people that run a given server start trying to charge for it. In that case it becomes a copyright infringement issue.

Beyond that, it's probably not worth the time and money to try and stop every one that pops up and doubtful to bring people to the official version of the game if you're out there shutting every shard that opens down.

Like RMT transactions, there is a limit to how hard you can try and police such an issue... it might seem nice to spam a server with each time you ban a gold seller/spammer, but if you're doing as much spamming as the spammers, you're just as bad as they are regardless of what you are spamming.

Jacob's zealotry against RMT really turns me off from a game like WAR while the "hands-off" approach IMO makes me feel more welcome as a free market person (no, again I do not sell things for real cash as the income per hour would make minimum wage seem like high-roller money in comparison, but I do and always will support LEGITIMATELY obtained goods being sold however the owner of said item wishes to do so).

Same holds true for emulated shards... if they went full bore zeal in trying to shut them down, they'll do nothing more than end up with a TON of bad press from people who still enjoy UO, just not the way UO has been directed since a given point in time... and as the original topic of the thread implies... more bad press = less players, less players = less revenue, less revenue = no more UO.

 

[a slave girl]

"Like RMT transactions, there is a limit to how hard you can try and police such an issue... it might seem nice to spam a server with each time you ban a gold seller/spammer, but if you're doing as much spamming as the spammers, you're just as bad as they are regardless of what you are spamming.

Jacob's zealotry against RMT really turns me off from a game like WAR while the "hands-off" approach IMO makes me feel more welcome as a free market person (no, again I do not sell things for real cash as the income per hour would make minimum wage seem like high-roller money in comparison, but I do and always will support LEGITIMATELY obtained goods being sold however the owner of said item wishes to do so)."




The only "limits" are how much time and money and imagination you wish to put into policing something; example being WoW suing a WoW bot/script creator and winning a 6 million dollar judgement against him.

Of course that cost Blizzard time and money. That is why we all know that EA won't be shutting down or policing free shards. They just won't turn loose of the money it would take to do so.

As far as Mark Jacobs or anyone in charge of Warhammer truly caring about RMT I have to laugh.

If they cared they would have put in measures to combat it BEFORE WAR was released.

As it was, we couldn't even put the constant flow of annoying as hell gold spammers in WAR on Ignore because Ignore DIDN'T WORK.

I honestly have to believe that they had preplanned on giving the gold sellers free reign in Warhammer and thusly disabled the ignore feature given the way that EA MYthic thinks gold sellers bring something necessary to UO.

I don't know maybe they see it as free advertising? EA Mythic must have thought the same thing about Warhammer but WAR players proved to them otherwise.

The WAR TEAM only started to crack down on gold sellers once they saw that the playerbase was having to spend more time paging on gold sellers for harrassment than playing the game.


"...it might seem nice to spam a server with each time you ban a gold seller/spammer, but if you're doing as much spamming as the spammers, you're just as bad as they are regardless of what you are spamming."


Spam from someone I do not know and never asked to know and never wish to know:

OBNOXIOUS GOLD SELLERS NUMBERS ONE THROUGH ONE MILLION AND ONE!

VS:

THE GODS OF WARHAMMER!

informing me of an vital improvement to my universe?



Surely you jest?



And Lolz at that "LEGITIMATELY obtained goods" bit.