Possible solution to Greater Dragons in PvP

[CroakerTnT]

I'm not too concerned about the greater dragons in PvP for the most part. They are too slow to really be much of a danger with their melee attacks and/or their spells.

However, their fire breath cannot be avoided and usually results in instant death. It's as bad as the old sammurai one-hit kills. I took 156 points of damage on a mage (with ~50 fire resist suit) from a fireball one day. (yes, I can beef up the fire resist, but even with 70 resist, that'd be a one hit kill)

So, the first step should be to eliminate the fire breath damage in PvP.

Their spells aren't as big a problem, but I am annoyed at how they can chain spells at you much faster than a player and seem to be able to cast from off-screen. Limiting their FC/FCR and range to the same as players would solve this.

Ok, let the flames begin!

 

[Omnicron]

i agree...with everything you said really.

 

[Ender]

/agree with all

 

[Viper09]

I'm not too concerned about the greater dragons in PvP for the most part. They are too slow to really be much of a danger with their melee attacks and/or their spells.

However, their fire breath cannot be avoided and usually results in instant death. It's as bad as the old sammurai one-hit kills. I took 156 points of damage on a mage (with ~50 fire resist suit) from a fireball one day. (yes, I can beef up the fire resist, but even with 70 resist, that'd be a one hit kill)

So, the first step should be to eliminate the fire breath damage in PvP.

Their spells aren't as big a problem, but I am annoyed at how they can chain spells at you much faster than a player and seem to be able to cast from off-screen. Limiting their FC/FCR and range to the same as players would solve this.

Ok, let the flames begin!

Not a bad idea. However nearly all spell casting pets do that chain spell casting.
The question would be, how would you be able to eliminate fire breath in PvP only?

I would suggest just capping the fire breath. I notice that when battling dragons, the lower their health is as the fight goes on, the less damage their fire breath is. So if the dragon is at half hp, their fire damage is lowered by aprox 50%. Hence the reason the greater dragon causes that much damage with fire breath is because their HP is so high? Therefore a simple solution would just to be CAP the damage that can be caused with their fire breath. It would possibly easier than trying to remove it from PvP.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

The best solution to Greater Dragons in PvP ...

Ignore all the whiny little cry babies (especially the Sp spoiled incompetent babies, that are crapping their diapers being to afraid to risk losing anything) that are 100% clueless how to PvP for real vs a Scripted (as in you cant do this this this or this and you cant use this or this or this).

Just ignore them and their endless whining/crying to have some one give them GOD MODE.

All this whining by the totally clueless/incompetent cry baby PvP wanna be's is making the case of just simply shutting down PvP in UO. Shutting down Sp is included in that discussion.

While I had been opposed, I know am convinced my UO tax (subscription) are being 100% wasted on trying to facilitate the whiny, incompetent, cry babies. Let em just be Bank Sitters trash talking about how superior they are to every one else.

Give them their own bank with NPC that act like PC's (a chance to develop new AI) so they can get their fix of being an online .... what ever they think they are.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Ignore all the whiny little cry babies (especially the Sp spoiled incompetent babies, that are crapping their diapers being to afraid to risk losing anything) that are 100% clueless how to PvP for real vs a Scripted (as in you cant do this this this or this and you cant use this or this or this).

I prefer to ignore anyone that calls another player a cry baby because they don't agree with their opinion. Especially one that is biased. :loser:

 

[Ender]

I prefer to ignore anyone that calls another player a cry baby because they don't agree with their opinion. Especially one that is biased. :loser:

Yeah, your opinion is pretty much invalid when you have to resort to name-calling. :/

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

Yeah, your opinion is pretty much invalid when you have to resort to name-calling. :/

Oh, you mean all your post, well 99% of them are invalid for the name calling as Trammie, Lamer Tamer etc you do?

That is just priceless.

Oh and it isn't like this is a post that has any other merit that to accomplish this

Ok, let the flames begin!

 

[Viper09]

*Trolling in progress*

 

[Shanna]

Yeah, your opinion is pretty much invalid when you have to resort to name-calling. :/

Is it invalid because the poster name called or because the poster had a point?

 

[Draxous]

Yeah, your opinion is pretty much invalid when you have to resort to name-calling. :/

Is it invalid because the poster name called or because the poster had no point?

fixt

and it's both.

 

[Zoran]

First of all- Enigma YOU ARE SO RIGHT!!! It's about time someone said it! After the first three dozen times of not calling people cry-babies for whining about 'The Greater Dragon Menace', it just gets too old. This cry-fest has came up again, and again, and- well you get the picture.

The fact of the matter is, most NON-CHEATING/NON-SCRIPTING players are ALOT less concerned about greater dragons than 'speed-hacking/pot-program-healing cheaters'. Those of us not running cheats don't have a problem running off and making another attack at the tamer a minute later. Its those who feel they are "Too good to run" because their programs are "Leet" who cry about it.

I don't use my tamer because it is a slow and dangerous way to get your kill on. Plus as a tamer you do not even get insurance payoffs from your kills. But it is nice to know that there is an alternative to dealing with the scriptors, other than "If you can't beat them, join them".

I have been killed by greater drags before. When it happened I knew it was only because I erred in my tactics. But when I watch a member from another guild chase me while casting heals upon himself, catch me, paralyze me (though I have a 120 resist) and then have time to cast two energy fields FROM DIFFERNT ANGLES ON ME before my resist kicks in? Thats just sad. Thats what needs to be removed from PvP. Speedhackers and Scriptrunners.

As for Siege periless? They should have a totally different board ( oh wait! they do!!! lol). Its a different game with different rules basically. I cannot speak for them- but as for the other shards? Adapt to the Greater Dragons as we have adapted to your hacks... Peace.
~Zoran

 

[Ender]

Is it invalid because the poster name called or because the poster had a point?

Invalid because they name called AND they had no point. At least none that I could see. I admit I didn't read the post in great detail, but from what I got out of it, I can tell they're calling everybody that admits that greater dragons are slightly overpowered is a crybaby and wants to play UO with god mode enabled. And they also said that everybody that says anything about tamers being overpowered on Siege is just whining. It's a legitimate complaint. You see, on Siege, there's no insurance. You can bless one item. That's it. Unless you're a tamer. You can bless your pets AND one item. There's one balance issue right there. Second, because of issue #1, Siege players have much less resist, and not near as many properties on their suits because of no insurance. Now, I'm not sure if you've tried fighting a greater dragon before, you possibly have, but with GM made armor it's pretty damn hard. I'm gonna end my explanation of why pets/greater dragons are overpowered on Siege right there.

Now, on real shards, just like the TC said, their breath attack does far too much damage, and they can cast much faster than players, and without having to physically see the player... This = unbalanced.

 

[Viper09]

The thread has actually given an effort to try and find a productive way to find a solution to some peoples problems instead of ranting and raving like most have done and like mr Enigma has graciously decided to start here.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

Yeah, your opinion is pretty much invalid when you have to resort to name-calling. :/

Is it invalid because the poster name called or because the poster had no point?

fixt

and it's both.

First off it would be Fixed not some perversion you dreamed up, lied about as that is your basic posting technique.

The Truth rather than the Lie Black Rain tells

Yeah, your opinion is pretty much invalid when you have to resort to name-calling. :/

Is it invalid because the poster name called or because the poster had a point?

 

[Ender]

I have been killed by greater drags before. When it happened I knew it was only because I erred in my tactics. But when I watch a member from another guild chase me while casting heals upon himself, catch me, paralyze me (though I have a 120 resist) and then have time to cast two energy fields FROM DIFFERNT ANGLES ON ME before my resist kicks in? Thats just sad. Thats what needs to be removed from PvP. Speedhackers and Scriptrunners.

As for Siege periless? They should have a totally different board ( oh wait! they do!!! lol). Its a different game with different rules basically. I cannot speak for them- but as for the other shards? Adapt to the Greater Dragons as we have adapted to your hacks... Peace.
~Zoran

Response to first paragraph: Well, mini heal casts pretty fast, I can see somebody running and casting an occasional mini heal pretty easily. And getting paralyzed with 120 resist? That's evil omen, which is unbalanced, but that's a completely different issue. And two energy fields from different angles? Cast one, target paralyzed player, cast another, run to south side from east side or whatever, target paralyzed player... It's pretty easy, and hacks have nothing to do with that. Scripts don't either. Do you PvP?

And Siege Perilous DOES have a different board, and what's wrong with it is that they get every change we get... That causes huge problems sometimes (greater dragons for example...) They don't have insurance, they have lower resists, etc.

And adapted to hacks? Not that many people hack... Fact.

 

[Nexus]

The easiest solution isn't to try altering and not by removing things, it's simple to cap damage based on if the Target of actions is a NPC vs a PC. It's already been done before, and by doing so it would remove a lot of the risk of them winding up botching the job and introducing a new PvM Nerf on accident.

 

[Aroma]

My two cents.
The greater dragons are an atempt to make the tamer a pvp viable player. Now it seems that all the pvp people are crying it's too much. So with that said next will see the tamer reduced back to the trammie meat shield he was. Or the ridance of all pvp, possible but wont happen. So everyone that has a tamer be ready to lose your ability at pvp. Oh you better sell that dragon while you can get a good price for it.




ps anyone wanna buy a high hp slightly used 5 slot dragon??

 

[Ender]

The easiest solution isn't to try altering and not by removing things, it's simple to cap damage based on if the Target of actions is a NPC vs a PC. It's already been done before, and by doing so it would remove a lot of the risk of them winding up botching the job and introducing a new PvM Nerf on accident.

Exactly, cap the breath damage at 35 just like all other damage, slow down the casting speed and recovery when attacking a player character... Leave it the same when against monsters. The casting speed/recovery reduction may be a little harder, but at least the breath balance should happen.

 

[Shanna]

And adapted to hacks? Not that many people hack... Fact.

That's cute. Do a google search on 'UO scripts' then tell us about how not many people hack/script.

 

[It Lives]

Greater

 

[Ender]

As you have previously made 100% clear, yours is the only perception that is ever valid. Heck, you have made it 100% clear you are all there is in the world. NO ONE ELSE EXISTS.

You make up (as in lie) a bunch crap about the poor whiny, cry baby SP PvPr's. Read their bitchy whiny posts that YOU VALIDATE.

Insurance doesn't exist on SP SO I AM GOING TO CRAP MY DIAPERS AND NOT EVER USE ANYTHING THAT IS GOOD SO I CAN NOT EVER LOSE IT. You admit it, they admit it, THEY ARE TO DARN AFRAID THEY WILL LOSE SOMETHING to be REAL PvPR'S.

I never said that my view is the only valid view... I don't lie about the facts on Siege. And to me personally, again, not sure about others, but Siege is supposed to be at least close to old UO. Which means NOT using a bunch of gimped out arties. And it's not even the fact that they're afraid to lose the stuff, not for all of them anyway, its the fact that not everybody has all the good stuff like on normal shards maybe? And again, in my view at least, real PvPer = PvPing without gimped out items. :/

 

[Draxous]

Yeah, your opinion is pretty much invalid when you have to resort to name-calling. :/

Is it invalid because the poster name called or because the poster had no point?

fixt

and it's both.

First off it would be Fixed not some perversion you dreamed up, lied about as that is your basic posting technique.

The Truth rather than the Lie Black Rain tells

First off, it would be whatever-the-****-I-want-it-to-be.

Second, on your stupid little tirade about Siege Players, stop being a cry baby and you wouldn't sound so stupid.

Third, of all the perversions in this thread, you thinking you're the thought police is the funniest thing ever!

Fourth and finally, go ahead cry some more about it because I look forward to seeing the message at the bottom my screen that reads:

*You create a newbie of exceptional sadness*

 

[Connor_Graham]

ps anyone wanna buy a high hp slightly used 5 slot dragon??

If it's on Pac, PM me the stats and the asking price.

 

[Ender]

That's cute. Do a google search on 'UO scripts' then tell us about how not many people hack/script.

Um. Ok...? And just because these sites are up and people are subscribed to them means that everybody hacks... I think you're the one that needs to learn to adapt. You can't win and you blame it on hacks possibly. That's what I see a lot of the time. Hacks are NOT everywhere. Not denying that there ARE hacks, people that use them, etc. But at least on Great Lakes, the people that DON'T use any illegal programs are the majority.

 

[Draxous]

The easiest solution isn't to try altering and not by removing things, it's simple to cap damage based on if the Target of actions is a NPC vs a PC. It's already been done before, and by doing so it would remove a lot of the risk of them winding up botching the job and introducing a new PvM Nerf on accident.

This is true.

I've also suggested FOR SIEGE:

Remove pet bonding from the shard completely.

Make any creature tamed, fully trained.

Problem solved.

 

[Zoran]

Hackers add ALOT more imbalance than Greater Dragons, which can be outran and out-manuevered. Seige periless SHOULD have different rules- that much is probibly true as their rules are already different in many other regards. If you don't like Seige that much though- heres a tip, you can also play on other shards. No joke.

As to Ender's comment about PvP- Are you freaking kidding me? If you had ever played UO would understand that casting a lesser heal makes the caster momentarily pause. Its very brief- but it happens. Two players- neither with ANY lag run at the same speed- suprised? Ok, so if one is casting several mini-heals, guess what? He doesnt CATCH UP TO SOMEONE OFF HIS SCREEN! duh!

The character chassing me was a tamer-mage, no necro. No evil Omen on my char.(since I have enchanted apples I carry for that-it wouldnt have mattered if he had been a necro anyways). Ive spoken to people in these other guilds and when chatting most ADMIT they use speed programs and such. If you really believe that on most shards the amount of PvP Greater Dragons outnumber the amount of Speed-Hackers and Script-runners, your living in more of a world of make believe than UO is itself....
~Zoran

 

[Ender]

Ok, I guess I can imagine hacks to cast while running, although I haven't really seen any ingame, but there are hacks to magically ignore resisting spells...?

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

... Silly Day Care Psycho Babble ....

Fourth and finally, go ahead cry some more about it because I look forward to seeing the message at the bottom my screen that reads:

*You create a newbie of exceptional sadness*

You apparently love yourself Glad to see you admit it. And I should be concerned over you being a newbie of exceptional sadness why?

Your previous posts define you clearly as being here for one thing and one thing only, the here being online any were, your just an addict to online violence. I mean it isn't like your even remotely subtle.

So keep on pumping out the Day Care Psycho Babble that probably stopped working on your peers a while back, get a clue it isn't going to do a thing for you here.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

.,, personal opinion ...
the fact that they're afraid to lose the stuff, not for all of them anyway
...

Bull Crap, that is what is stated in every single one of these bitchy little whiny Oh Nerf ..........

"There is NO Insurance on the UBER/SUPERIOR/ADVANCED sp".

IF there is NO UBER ITEMS TO LOSE OR they are NOT AFRAID, then why the "There is NO INSURANCE" whine? No, it is there to state explicitly how SUPERIOR they believe themselves to be AND IMPLICITLY states HOW TERRIFIED THEY ARE, THAT THEY WILL LOSE THE UBER STUFF.

THEY ARE TO DARN AFRAID OF LOSING...... AND they obviously think the Greater Dragon is GONNA EAT MY UBER STUFF AND I WILL NEVER GET IT BACK.

Talk about the Pan Ultimate Bank Sitting Prima Donna's.

 

[Draxous]

... Silly Day Care Psycho Babble ....

Fourth and finally, go ahead cry some more about it because I look forward to seeing the message at the bottom my screen that reads:

*You create a newbie of exceptional sadness*

You apparently love yourself Glad to see you admit it. And I should be concerned over you being a newbie of exceptional sadness why?

Your previous posts define you clearly as being here for one thing and one thing only, the here being online any were, your just a addict to online violence. I mean it isnt like your even remotely subtle.

So keep on pumping out the Day Care Psycho Babble that probably stopped working on your peers a while back, get a clue it isn't going to do a thing for you here.

lol!!!

Seek help.

 

[Ender]

Oi!

You people make me laugh with glee, you say siege perilous doest have REAL pvpers? and yet you hide behind all your arties and then you say WERE the ones afraid to loose anything?

Your the one with insurence you drater gnikcuf!

You say were crying? read your own post lol. So sad.

I know, that's the point I was trying to get through his/her thick skull... Guess it's not working.

 

[Zoran]

Actually no, it wasnt the resisting he ignored- usually with high enough magery one can paralyze me but only for a moment. I watched as he cast the paralyze at a run, and then cast TWO ENERGY FIELDS with the speed one can normally cast a fireball..

That kind of thing is demoralizing. When a few days later I saw the same person get bola'd off their mount- and then have a greater sicked upon them, its kinda hard not to see it as "leveling the playing field".

Pleanty of times I have outran GD's, but there is no game-legal way to out run speed-hacks and faster casting hacks.

~Zoran

 

[Ender]

Bull Crap, that is what is stated in every single one of these bitchy little whiny Oh Nerf ..........

"There is NO Insurance on the UBER/SUPERIOR/ADVANCED sp".

IF there is NO UBER ITEMS TO LOSE OR they are NOT AFRAID, then why the "There is NO INSURANCE" whine?

THEY ARE TO DARN AFRAID OF LOSING...... AND they obviously think the Greater Dragon is GONNA EAT MY UBER STUFF AND I WILL NEVER GET IT BACK.

Talk about the Pan Ultimate Bank Sitting Prima Donna's.

I don't remember a single post where a Siege player said they were afraid of losing their stuff. And at the same time mentioned greater dragons being overpowered. Greater dragons have nothing to do with them losing their stuff... They can be killed and looted by any player that manages to kill them, so theory = invalidated?

 

[JC the Builder]

I took 156 points of damage on a mage (with ~50 fire resist suit) from a fireball one day.

Fire breath damage is capped at 70, or it is supposed to be. That is impossible even if it isn't capped at 70. You should be taking around 80 damage with 50 fire resistance.

 

[Ender]

Oh, and to reply back to an old post about googling UO scripts... Those aren't the types of scripts that UHallers love to complain about. Mostly at least. Good try though.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

Fire breath damage is capped at 70, or it is supposed to be. That is impossible even if it isn't capped at 70. You should be taking around 80 damage with 50 fire resistance.

No, it has been demonstrated that one of the whiners making a "Greater Dragons are GOD" post was using a weapon with the OPPOSING slayer attribute and that does what to damage?

These guys run around with weapons/items that double the damage done to them and then say NERF THE GREATER DRAGONS.

 

[Zoran]

So with all that is said in regards to the topic-

Should seige have a different set of rules completely,
OR
Do you think that all the other shards should change due to the siege-minority outcry?

If you don't like seige periless, petition for a change there, or hey, JUST STOP PLAYING SIEGE!!! Theres an Idea!!

Until they come up with a way to kill EasyUO and simular programs- NO ONE will ever know who is actually good at PvP, and GD's should be a much lesser concern.
~Zoran

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

I don't remember a single post where a Siege player said they were afraid of losing their stuff.

No that IS THE POINT, they will NEVER ADMIT to being TO DARN AFRAID OF LOSING THE UBER STUFF.

BUT it isn't like they are subtle about it, they point a Mega Watt Spotlight on the "I AM TO AFRAID OF LOSING THE UBER STUFF" they tattooed on their foreheads, making it perfectly clear they WILL NEVER REALLY RISK ANYTHING OF VALUE.

The Trammel people DO. (HINT: Think Looting Mobs that GO POOF). The INFERIOR Trammel players will RISK EVERYTHING and the ELITE/SUPERIOR PvP/SP people will RISK NOTHING.

 

[Draxous]

Actually no, it wasnt the resisting he ignored- usually with high enough magery one can paralyze me but only for a moment. I watched as he cast the paralyze at a run, and then cast TWO ENERGY FIELDS with the speed one can normally cast a fireball..

~Zoran

You "saw" that?

lol!!!!

I call bull****. Put the pipe down or stop making up bs.

 

[Draxous]

Bull Crap, that is what is stated in every single one of these bitchy little whiny Oh Nerf ..........

"There is NO Insurance on the UBER/SUPERIOR/ADVANCED sp".

IF there is NO UBER ITEMS TO LOSE OR they are NOT AFRAID, then why the "There is NO INSURANCE" whine?

THEY ARE TO DARN AFRAID OF LOSING...... AND they obviously think the Greater Dragon is GONNA EAT MY UBER STUFF AND I WILL NEVER GET IT BACK.

Talk about the Pan Ultimate Bank Sitting Prima Donna's.

I don't remember a single post where a Siege player said they were afraid of losing their stuff. And at the same time mentioned greater dragons being overpowered. Greater dragons have nothing to do with them losing their stuff... They can be killed and looted by any player that manages to kill them, so theory = invalidated?

Dude... it's obvious he's more than a few cans short of a 6-pack... and up until now, I thought it was just "a few."

 

[Sheridan]

Take the back and forth bickering to PMs... this isn't the place for it. Keep it civil.

 

[Ender]

No that IS THE POINT, they will NEVER ADMIT to being TO DARN AFRAID OF LOSING THE UBER STUFF.

BUT it isn't like they are subtle about it, they point a Mega Watt Spotlight on the "I AM TO AFRAID OF LOSING THE UBER STUFF" they tattooed on their foreheads, making it perfectly clear they WILL NEVER REALLY RISK ANYTHING OF VALUE.

The Trammel people DO. (HINT: Think Looting Mobs that GO POOF). The INFERIOR Trammel players will RISK EVERYTHING and the ELITE/SUPERIOR PvP/SP people will RISK NOTHING.

Umm... What? They're not admitting to being afraid of losing stuff, but at the same time they're saying that they're afraid of losing stuff? Am I understanding this incorrectly...?

And also, if you're implying that the Siege players are THINKING that they don't want to lose their stuff... You know what they're thinking how...?

 

[Zoran]

True story... It happened twice the same day... Bola'd and chased down. Second time though was a lure and his guildmates killed the tamer- but thats how it goes in Fel. Word.
~Zoran

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

Take the back and forth bickering to PMs... this isn't the place for it. Keep it civil.

But wouldn't Civility be .... Not having the Hourly Rant about how .... something ..... is to .... something.

Saying exactly the same thing over and over and over and over and bumping and bumping and bumping?

I mean you as a moderator no disrespect nor am I commenting on the moderation of the board.

I am pointing out a few have engaged in a continuous, non stop trolling of the board that, in my opinion, is boarding on the verge of harassing the board citizens.

 

[Zoran]

I am pointing out a few have engaged in a continuous, non stop trolling of the board that, in my opinion, is boarding on the verge of harassing the board citizens.

I second that! YES!! Word B.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

Umm... What? They're not admitting to being afraid of losing stuff, but at the same time they're saying that they're afraid of losing stuff? Am I understanding this incorrectly...?
...

Yes obviously you misunderstood it, it isn't a great revelation is it?

They/You bring up the "There is NO insurance on SP" whine.

It is always explicitly to demonstrate how vastly superior they are to every one else.

The problem is, if one actually LISTENS, they are also implying, rather loudly, they are TO AFRAID THEY WILL LOSE EVERYTHING, when they also say "I must fight a Greater Dragon Head on in nothing but Cloth (an exageration) Armor and a Training Weapon". Very Loudly they are saying because there "IS NO INSURANCE ON SP", is why they WONT USE THE GOOD STUFF.

 

[Viper09]

But wouldn't Civility be .... Not having the Hourly Rant about how .... something ..... is to .... something.

Saying exactly the same thing over and over and over and over and bumping and bumping and bumping?

I mean you as a moderator no disrespect nor am I commenting on the moderation of the board.

I am pointing out a few have engaged in a continuous, non stop trolling of the board that, in my opinion, is boarding on the verge of harassing the board citizens.

Oh yeah, sure, and your making it worse and simply becoming the problem as well.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Not having the Hourly Rant

Ranting about the ranting doesn't exacerbate what you see as a problem how exactly?

 

[JC the Builder]

I just tested it and it appears that tamed Greater Dragons can go over the 70 fire breath damage cap. Or they removed the cap entirely and I missed the notice.

At 0 fire resistance a fire breath did 182 damage
At 35 fire resistance it did 122 damage
At 50 fire resistance it did 94 damage
At 60 fire resistance it did 75 damage
At 70 fire resistance it did 56 damage

Clearly fire breath damage needs to be capped. Otherwise Greater Dragons are pretty fine compared to everything else. Still no where near the amount of damage claimed by the original poster,