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now let us solve inflation

gwen

Slightly Crazed
yes I agree it would be bad for the game
it was mostly just an example of one way how you can creat a max price for what an item can sell for
What is the purpose of max price? Let's discuss it with example:
VvV Mace and Shield . Antique. cost guild creation fee. You get 4 for that price (500 silver per)
Normal Mace and Shield cost doing quest and 12M per . Available for everyone. If you will get it and put on vendor in Atl for 15M it will be sold within few days.
Better version :Blackthorn helmet can be farmed in dungeon still. More people you gather -faster you will get it. Usually takes 30-45 minutes to get 50 drops. Don't need expensive end-game gear to play there. Price is 20+/-mil usually.

Drops rate is reliable, stable, you can plan your income and future purchases.
 

Herman

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
The top price is irrelevant. The market price is what matters. If the fixed price was higher than than the market price, you'd still have players selling it for less and ignoring the NPC players. If the fixed price was too low, everyone would buy from NPC, and nobody would farm the item. All these interactions are subject to economy rules and are a game mechanic.
No it is a definition problem

It is the ultimate form of Monopoly (depending how far you take it)
where 1 entity controll every detail of the market need nothing anyone else have but still decide how to allocate goods

And I'm not sure how I would define it that is why i put the ( ?) there

Deleting gold at a % is no matter how you put it still the most democratic way of doing it but judging by all the threads before this one you are not alone to hate that idea
 

Herman

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
What is the purpose of max price? Let's discuss it with example:
VvV Mace and Shield . Antique. cost guild creation fee. You get 4 for that price (500 silver per)
Normal Mace and Shield cost doing quest and 12M per . Available for everyone. If you will get it and put on vendor in Atl for 15M it will be sold within few days.
Better version :Blackthorn helmet can be farmed in dungeon still. More people you gather -faster you will get it. Usually takes 30-45 minutes to get 50 drops. Don't need expensive end-game gear to play there. Price is 20+/-mil usually.

Drops rate is reliable, stable, you can plan your income and future purchases.
Thx for reminding me that that already exist in game i forgot about that (clean up,library,and zoo rewards)
You be the judge yourself how placing the best items in game on those 3 places would change the economy

If it is good or bad for the game i think we both agree it would be bad
 

Anon McDougle

Grand Inquisitor
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
The top price is irrelevant. The market price is what matters. If the fixed price was higher than than the market price, you'd still have players selling it for less and ignoring the NPC players. If the fixed price was too low, everyone would buy from NPC, and nobody would farm the item. All these interactions are subject to economy rules and are a game mechanic.

I assume you don't really mean divide all the money in game by a 100 as that would include the loot drops, etc. You mean - just take most of the gold away from players who have it. I am not sure how you can think that being democratic or least destructive. It will disproportionately punish the most active player for no benefit to the game (remember the duping bit?). What's more, regardless of what you call this, it's flat-out theft. And it would probably result in a bigger player exodus than cancelling one of the game clients.
Just out of curiosity how much gold would someone have to make a day playing from first day to have even one plat?
 

Anon McDougle

Grand Inquisitor
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
Now the dupes are the problem because joe plataire might have earned his gold the honest way while goldie mcduper didn't the bottom line is the gap between the top gold holders and the bottom much less any "new" players is too huge
 

railshot

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Just out of curiosity how much gold would someone have to make a day playing from first day to have even one plat?
I'd be a wrong person to ask because I never had a plat. But I doubt the majority just earn their way into "plattionnaires" by daily collection of gold from corpses. EM drops often sell for hundreds of millions. So do roof and Doom drops. Bane dragons sell for over a plat, etc. For non semi professional IDOC scripters and the like, I'd guess selling drops is the way to go. And I imagine, even a casual player can get there in a year or so if they keep saving it.
 

Anon McDougle

Grand Inquisitor
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
I'd be a wrong person to ask because I never had a plat. But I doubt the majority just earn their way into "plattionnaires" by daily collection of gold from corpses. EM drops often sell for hundreds of millions. So do roof and Doom drops. Bane dragons sell for over a plat, etc. For non semi professional IDOC scripters and the like, I'd guess selling drops is the way to go. And I imagine, even a casual player can get there in a year or so if they keep saving it.
Yes one of our guild members just made their first plat selling stuff on Atlantic the refinements sell for a lot etc
 

Herman

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Umm, I'm not sure what you mean by "economic principles" here....Let me try this a different way:
Because UO's economy is a game mechanic, not an economy, attempting to judge or alter it as though it were an economy is a bad idea. Rather we should try to judge or alter this game mechanic as though it were a game mechanic.

And I'm very confused as to why this is so controversial a point.

.
You are 100% right
I think this is a case where me and others could not see what was right before our eyes
In a game where laws of physics do not apply why would we have to confine ourself to someting as mundane as economic principles
one can go completly crazy with the ideas anything and everything is possible
 

The Zog historian

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
If you start charging upkeep for housing we already pay for our account Monthly... There is NO way I'd pay again for my house... that's insane... but if they want to do something like that... allow us to "buy/rent" a basement with the lockdowns of a Castle/Keep for X gold a month and make a server of black space and put 32x32 bases on it people can custom maybe 2 stories... of "basement" they buy/rent a teleporter to lock down at their house and use... and that goes to their "basement" failure to pay after 3 months results in all that crap in their going to an auction... where it's auctioned off to the highest bidder and you rid the shards of even more money as you know people would spend money on that.

But NO my subscription allows me a house... If I had to pay a monthly fee of gold for that now after 24 years of it being part of your paid subscription that's a hard NO... I'd be done. I don't need a gold sink... I don't have multiplats... unlike loads of people that's not my thing.
Once upon a time, when the Great Housing Patch of 1999 was announced and being fleshed out, the Devs floated an idea of requiring regular "maintenance" on a house requiring logs/board and ingots. It was bad enough, in the time before skill locks, constantly having to touch up skills back to GM.

The immediate player response was overwhelmingly against such a bird-brained idea.
 

The Zog historian

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
In fact 99% of new players will see it on the wall and not realize it's rarity, or care, but to me it's priceless. A memory from a time long gone. So is that hay btw, it only spawned in that direction once per shard and not many are left, but it's not shardbound either and it's value is also not appreciated. Because the hay facing the other direction does not SAY shard-bound the fact you can't get hay in this direction(to my knowledge) doesn't change its perceived value. Priceless to me, worthless to others, even if it can be gotten again some day.
I've never noticed corroded manacles anywhere else. The pair I have, and my Acolyte of Relvinian, were a gift from one of the best game friends I ever had. I know for certain he got them from the events because, other than his honesty and trustworthiness, he proudly showed them to me afterward.

I know the manacles have been duped to hell and back, and probably the robe too, but their value to me is beyond anything anyone in the game could pay. Are they "just pixels," or are they in fact a reminder of friendship since over 20 years ago? It's like a small rock a widow or widower keeps and treasures more than diamonds, because it was taken from the couple's favorite spot.

So would shard-bounding everything fix the economy, or break it? My gut says the later, I like that these items exist.
Small shards depend a great deal on some of us going to other shards to buy things and bring them back, whether for ourselves, to give to friends, or to sell for profit. Think about it this way: if San Franciscans could buy and sell only in their city, would they grow wealthier, or grow poorer? The laws of economics — the laws that govern people producing for themselves and trading with each other — are no different in UO than the real world.
 

John Knighthawke

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
Eliminate all monetary loot from the game. No gold on any monster, no gold drop from champ spawns or other bosses. Delete all remaining cheques. Stop all selling to NPCS. Inflation will eventually come down because the only cash left in the game will be that which we already have, and we'll have only that with which to trade to each other. Due to the occasional need to buy from an NPC for one thing or another, the amount of gold in the game overall will diminish slowly.

This measure would, eventually, probably stop or greatly slow inflation, though of course it would be a bad idea for many other reasons.
 

HRH Liz

Lore Master
UNLEASHED
Eliminate all monetary loot from the game. No gold on any monster, no gold drop from champ spawns or other bosses. Delete all remaining cheques. Stop all selling to NPCS. Inflation will eventually come down because the only cash left in the game will be that which we already have, and we'll have only that with which to trade to each other. Due to the occasional need to buy from an NPC for one thing or another, the amount of gold in the game overall will diminish slowly.

This measure would, eventually, probably stop or greatly slow inflation, though of course it would be a bad idea for many other reasons.
You are 100% correct that this will stop inflation as so many players will cancel their accounts EA will have no choice as to close UO for good, hard to have inflation in a game that no longer exists.
 

John Knighthawke

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
You are 100% correct that this will stop inflation as so many players will cancel their accounts EA will have no choice as to close UO for good, hard to have inflation in a game that no longer exists.
But of course. Hence the final part of my post: "though of course it would be a bad idea for many other reasons."
 

gwen

Slightly Crazed
Eliminate all monetary loot from the game. No gold on any monster, no gold drop from champ spawns or other bosses. Delete all remaining cheques. Stop all selling to NPCS. Inflation will eventually come down because the only cash left in the game will be that which we already have, and we'll have only that with which to trade to each other. Due to the occasional need to buy from an NPC for one thing or another, the amount of gold in the game overall will diminish slowly.

This measure would, eventually, probably stop or greatly slow inflation, though of course it would be a bad idea for many other reasons.
Ok, so we will end up using items as a currency. 38M arrows for a Cameo, 3 Cameo for rare EMevent drop. 1Slither+ 20*100% elemental double axes for a trained pet.
I don't want this.
Devs got us good gear, so killing mobs is easy, warning gold is easy, gold value fall down.

And et the end stuff you only can buy from NPC will cost a lot cuz nobody has gold to buy refinement material from vendor. And vendor does not accept arrows or other stuff you have.
 

John Knighthawke

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
Ok, so we will end up using items as a currency. 38M arrows for a Cameo, 3 Cameo for rare EMevent drop. 1Slither+ 20*100% elemental double axes for a trained pet.
I don't want this.
Devs got us good gear, so killing mobs is easy, warning gold is easy, gold value fall down.

And et the end stuff you only can buy from NPC will cost a lot cuz nobody has gold to buy refinement material from vendor. And vendor does not accept arrows or other stuff you have.
No one should want to see the ideas in my post implemented. I sure don't. Hopefully that was clear. Thank you for following through on the logic, I thought that too, that eventually everything would come down to barter which would be flawed given the needs of actually playing the game.
 

petemage

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
38M arrows for a Cameo, 3 Cameo for rare EMevent drop. 1Slither+ 20*100% elemental double axes for a trained pet.
That's not really how it plays out in games without an official currency. Instead there's always some ressource used as de-facto currency. It's more like "1m ingots for that, 5m ingots for this" and everybody has a bank full of ingot deeds. I've never seen an economy emerge where people actually trade like quoted above. Too much of a pain when there are easier workarounds.
 

Pawain

I Hate Skilling
Governor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
That's not really how it plays out in games without an official currency. Instead there's always some ressource used as de-facto currency. It's more like "1m ingots for that, 5m ingots for this" and everybody has a bank full of ingot deeds. I've never seen an economy emerge where people actually trade like quoted above. Too much of a pain when there are easier workarounds.
Blame Diablo. Stone of Jordans became the currency. The rest did the same.
 

petemage

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Blame Diablo. Stone of Jordans became the currency. The rest did the same.
I never played Diablo. I read that this is a ring that only drops for level 60+ characters. Hard to imagine everything in Diablo is priced in multiples of that ring.

I further read Diablo has gold as a currency. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but It rather feels like this elite ring bartering is some endgame powerplayer thing.

And then even if we did the thought-experiment that diablo had no gold, you certainly proved my point. People don't trade random items for other random items. They would use those rings as a de-facto currency and trade items for currency (i.e. rings).
 
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Draza

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
If i remember, the stones of jordan were keys to a secret boss, 100 to summon him or some sort.
 

Pawain

I Hate Skilling
Governor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
And then even if we did the thought-experiment that diablo had no gold, you certainly proved my point. People don't trade random items for other random items. They would use those rings as a de-facto currency and trade items for currency (i.e. rings).
Yes. Gold was not useful in that version of Diablo so the ring became the trading currency. In Diablo 3 you can not trade anything. You can only drop things on the ground and another player that participated in that session can pick it up.

They went from trading to a real money auction house, then to very little trading. They had a max of $200 or so in the real money auction house.

In D3 gold is useful in attempting to upgrade an item. With no trade Windows for anything.

UO has deco. Diablo does not.
 

Pawain

I Hate Skilling
Governor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
If i remember, the stones of jordan were keys to a secret boss, 100 to summon him or some sort.
That rumor made them create a cow level and then the overly colorful candyland level as a joke.
 

Draza

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
That rumor made them create a cow level and then the overly colorful candyland level as a joke.
Ok, then i am thinking diablo 2.

 

Ghost of Gramps

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
i have found the solution to my constant sorrow. i thought that my drinking days were over because i no longer have a digestive system. but all this time, all that i had to do was fill up a barrel with vodka and sit in it until the alcohol soaked into my bones.

and now for the next problem. there is too much gold in the realm! we are plagued by gold. how do we get rid of it? do you have any good ideas? i don't, but i have some bad ones.

1) let players purchase permanent gilded statues of their characters in a central part of town for one hundred million gold pieces. does this mean the more populated shards will end up with towns completely full of gilded player statues? yes, and it will be hilarious

2) some kind of draconic supervillain that can only be appeased by being fed massive amounts of gold. there is a 0.05% chance of them dropping an amazing new rare: a blaze-hued solid gold turd. so the average player has to feed millions into the monster in order to get a turd

3) give all the gold to me

4) introduce solid gold walls and flooring to player housing that cost one million gold pieces per tile. if they have a glitter animation, rich people will build their whole houses out of them. i promise they will do it. they're absolute madmen

5) hell if i know

although this thread is for suggestions on how to use up our realm's monstrous excess of gold, i am also willing to entertain any ultra-rich sugar daddies looking for a nice long-term highly educated undead partner who can use up their monstrous excess of gold in a creative and socially responsible way.
You might just be onto something there. Statues in parks. Yeah, that would be a hoot. Gold walls. Absolutely. Especially when you see all of the ridiculous bling now.
 

The Zog historian

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Eliminate all monetary loot from the game. No gold on any monster, no gold drop from champ spawns or other bosses. Delete all remaining cheques. Stop all selling to NPCS. Inflation will eventually come down because the only cash left in the game will be that which we already have, and we'll have only that with which to trade to each other. Due to the occasional need to buy from an NPC for one thing or another, the amount of gold in the game overall will diminish slowly.

This measure would, eventually, probably stop or greatly slow inflation, though of course it would be a bad idea for many other reasons.
Yours is a nice idea, but as players switched to commodities as a medium of exchange, players would start making lots of arrows, doing lots of script-mining, etc., to get lots of the new currency. At least with Bitcoin mining, there will ultimately be a fixed amount, so there isn't inflation per se from all the people making rows of mining rigs.

Milton Friedman wanted a money supply that was tied to population growth (I'm talking real life, of course). That still wasn't the best solution, but real life and UO show the perils of a money supply increasing beyond normal consumer demand to use it.
 

John Knighthawke

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
Yours is a nice idea, but as players switched to commodities as a medium of exchange, players would start making lots of arrows, doing lots of script-mining, etc., to get lots of the new currency. At least with Bitcoin mining, there will ultimately be a fixed amount, so there isn't inflation per se from all the people making rows of mining rigs.

Milton Friedman wanted a money supply that was tied to population growth (I'm talking real life, of course). That still wasn't the best solution, but real life and UO show the perils of a money supply increasing beyond normal consumer demand to use it.
As noted in my original post, I consider my 'idea' was a bad one, in my own estimation, because it would be bad game mechanics.

As to Bitcoin and ole' Milton, I suspect addressing RL politics would get me banned.
 

Spartan

Certifiable
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
As noted in my original post, I consider my 'idea' was a bad one, in my own estimation, because it would be bad game mechanics.

As to Bitcoin and ole' Milton, I suspect addressing RL politics would get me banned.
One word for ya: unleashed. check it out.
 

Maith Ceol

Journeyman
Governor
Stratics Veteran
I had someone just tell me they wanted 900m for an 18x18 on Atl and I was like no thanks lol.
I don't understand why people feel like the 18x18 is the be all end all. I placed a house with the same amount of storage as an 18x18 on Atlantic not that long ago. It's on the water, it's quiet and it's, for me, a great location. It is in Fel, and on Atlantic that is actually something to consider but like I said, its quiet so I don't worry much. And, the smaller footprint cost me less to customize. I haven't been on Atlantic for a month or so but last time I was, there were still spots for full storage houses ... just not 18x18s.
 

Cork

Sage
Professional
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UNLEASHED
I don't understand why people feel like the 18x18 is the be all end all. I placed a house with the same amount of storage as an 18x18 on Atlantic not that long ago. It's on the water, it's quiet and it's, for me, a great location. It is in Fel, and on Atlantic that is actually something to consider but like I said, its quiet so I don't worry much. And, the smaller footprint cost me less to customize. I haven't been on Atlantic for a month or so but last time I was, there were still spots for full storage houses ... just not 18x18s.
I had someone just give me the 18x18 I have now. Someone placed a 7x8 next to it then they tried selling it to me for 900m also and I was like you are high lol.
 

Pawain

I Hate Skilling
Governor
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I had someone just give me the 18x18 I have now. Someone placed a 7x8 next to it then they tried selling it to me for 900m also and I was like you are high lol.
A Castle sold recently for 30 Plat on Atl.
 

Lord Arm

Certifiable
Governor
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
no idea on what to do but theres a guy who is up to over 750 plat now mostly from scripting. there probably people with more. i keep saying duping and scripting are the main problem. it really is amazing how much someone can make scripting with many multi accounts. its all auto. the devs do not look like they should. they just wait for page, oh nothing to see here lol. nothing will help that i know of. the endless cheating accounts did not help. the 14 day trail accounts helped stop alot of the cheating with scripting because they had to make new accounts every 14 days, now its endless cheating. hense the name. i did not know what can help anymore. i dont even want to go into shadow guard and how people for years were able to get 4 plus chances at drop per char with the exploit the devs didnt know about for years. if it can be exploited, it will be. i want the devs to work on improving the game, fixed bugs, not work on a new shard. just my opinions
 

The Zog historian

Babbling Loonie
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As to Bitcoin and ole' Milton, I suspect addressing RL politics would get me banned.
I would think if something isn't too controversial and is approached objectively, there wouldn't be a problem. There are laws of economics that cannot be avoided in real life, and also in UO. Just like in real life these laws can't be nullified by legislation, they can't be nullified in UO by changes in game mechanics. For example, when someone suggested we chop zeroes off the end of gold quantities, well, Zimbabwe already tried that.

"Too much money chasing too few goods." And I'm not even a Keynesian by any stretch.
 

John Knighthawke

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
I would think if something isn't too controversial and is approached objectively, there wouldn't be a problem. There are laws of economics that cannot be avoided in real life, and also in UO. Just like in real life these laws can't be nullified by legislation, they can't be nullified in UO by changes in game mechanics. For example, when someone suggested we chop zeroes off the end of gold quantities, well, Zimbabwe already tried that.

"Too much money chasing too few goods." And I'm not even a Keynesian by any stretch.
It's really unhealthy for my career as a Stratics poster to address this stuff at all, so after this post I'm very likely to just lay off the topic, and very likely this thread, entirely. Readers of the future please don't take this as agreement with whatever comes after, merely as recognition of where I am.

Regarding these discussions generally, the last time I looked any discussion of RL politics is off limits, and that's probably the right rule to have, but what I meant was that the rule never has seemed to me to be applied evenly. And it's best if I left it there.

Regarding Economics, it is, by definition, is a social or behavioral science, not a hard science, because it is studying human behavior. Economists like to think otherwise but the logic should be easy to see -- it's studying stuff that people do in a system with other people. This means, again by definition, that there aren't hard and fast rules like there are (sorta....) in the hard sciences. Rather there are a set of predictive probabilities based on what's happened before and based on the logic that actors in the system usually apply in similar situations. Some of these predictive statements have held up pretty well over the years (like, at a high level of abstraction, how supply and demand interact) and some have not (see the "Phillips Curve" controversies) and some can never be tested because the things required to test them will never happen.

I also need to point out that, again by definition, economic activity, far from not being nullified by legislation, would not exist without it. Modern capitalism exists in a world created by legislation. We have roads, schools, courts, law enforcement, etc, all of which modern Capitalism assumes, and depends upon the existence of. The anarchic, Capitalistic-driven fantasy of Robert Nozick simply does not, and likely cannot, exist. As I recall from the secondary literature, Smith seemed to understand this more than do his successors or disciples. I suspect this isn't precisely the kind of thing you meant, but either way, it's an implication.

Take it or leave it....The degree to which I care is kinda limited relative to other factors.
 

The Zog historian

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Regarding Economics, it is, by definition, is a social or behavioral science, not a hard science, because it is studying human behavior. Economists like to think otherwise but the logic should be easy to see -- it's studying stuff that people do in a system with other people. This means, again by definition, that there aren't hard and fast rules like there are (sorta....) in the hard sciences. Rather there are a set of predictive probabilities based on what's happened before and based on the logic that actors in the system usually apply in similar situations. Some of these predictive statements have held up pretty well over the years (like, at a high level of abstraction, how supply and demand interact) and some have not (see the "Phillips Curve" controversies) and some can never be tested because the things required to test them will never happen.

I also need to point out that, again by definition, economic activity, far from not being nullified by legislation, would not exist without it. Modern capitalism exists in a world created by legislation. We have roads, schools, courts, law enforcement, etc, all of which modern Capitalism assumes, and depends upon the existence of. The anarchic, Capitalistic-driven fantasy of Robert Nozick simply does not, and likely cannot, exist. As I recall from the secondary literature, Smith seemed to understand this more than do his successors or disciples. I suspect this isn't precisely the kind of thing you meant, but either way, it's an implication.
Topic for a different forum. :) But if you want to have an idea of where I come from, here's a quote:

"The quantitative treatment of economic problems must not be confused with the quantitative methods applied in dealing with the problems of the external universe of physical and chemical events. The distinctive mark of economic calculation is that it is neither based upon nor related to anything which could be characterized as measurement." – Ludwig von Mises, Human Action, chapter 11, part 4
 

drcossack

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I don't know anything that drops that much gold that wouldn't tear you to pieces in short order.
All you need is a 5 slot Chiv/AI pet. No scrolls needed. They will rip through things well enough on their own, although certain things will require healing. Fel Destard Level 2 (with Shadow Wyrms) is my go-to spot for Fame farming/Sacrifice gaining - I have multiple pets that can kill them in under 30 seconds, or I can just cast directly on them for the same effect (29% SDI Dragon Slayer spellbook from one of the town invasions.) After about 10 minutes I have a full stack of roughly 60k gold and I use a Bag of Sending charge.
 

MalagAste

Belaern d'Zhaunil
Alumni
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Stratics Legend
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Campaign Supporter
All you need is a 5 slot Chiv/AI pet. No scrolls needed. They will rip through things well enough on their own, although certain things will require healing. Fel Destard Level 2 (with Shadow Wyrms) is my go-to spot for Fame farming/Sacrifice gaining - I have multiple pets that can kill them in under 30 seconds, or I can just cast directly on them for the same effect (29% SDI Dragon Slayer spellbook from one of the town invasions.) After about 10 minutes I have a full stack of roughly 60k gold and I use a Bag of Sending charge.
Most newer younger characters or returning characters are NOT going to have a 5 slot Chiv/AI Cu...
 

gwen

Slightly Crazed
All you need is a 5 slot Chiv/AI pet. No scrolls needed. They will rip through things well enough on their own, although certain things will require healing. Fel Destard Level 2 (with Shadow Wyrms) is my go-to spot for Fame farming/Sacrifice gaining - I have multiple pets that can kill them in under 30 seconds, or I can just cast directly on them for the same effect (29% SDI Dragon Slayer spellbook from one of the town invasions.) After about 10 minutes I have a full stack of roughly 60k gold and I use a Bag of Sending charge.
That is really long way to train your taming, then tame pet. Wait 1 week to bond , train it. All this to earn gold ? Why bother ?
1lizard man in Despise gives you 26 spined leather. Can be killed with almost every toon. Including your crafter with lowland/ruddy Boura (0 taming required)
 

drcossack

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Most newer younger characters or returning characters are NOT going to have a 5 slot Chiv/AI Cu...
They may, however, have prepatch White Wyrms and Nightmares. Training them to 5 slot doesn't take more than a couple hours - there are plenty of relatively low risk places to do that. Honestly, if people can't farm things in this game in 2022, it's on them. Find a group by asking in gen chat if you need to.
 

MalagAste

Belaern d'Zhaunil
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Campaign Supporter
That is really long way to train your taming, then tame pet. Wait 1 week to bond , train it. All this to earn gold ? Why bother ?
1lizard man in Despise gives you 26 spined leather. Can be killed with almost every toon. Including your crafter with lowland/ruddy Boura (0 taming required)
Only there are no lizardmen in Despise anymore... except in Fel maybe... though you can find them in Ilshenar... if you know where to look...
 

drcossack

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I used to hunt the Oni... It can be mean ... but has loads of gold. But I don't expect most to be able to hunt it...
Used to hunt it as well - currently takes me less than 10 seconds to kill one. WW/Mare combo did well enough before I got my Greater Dragon. Even in Shadowguard I was able to bring a White Wyrm/Mare prior to the pet revamp, although they couldn't tank anything.
 

Anon McDougle

Grand Inquisitor
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
Used to hunt it as well - currently takes me less than 10 seconds to kill one. WW/Mare combo did well enough before I got my Greater Dragon. Even in Shadowguard I was able to bring a White Wyrm/Mare prior to the pet revamp, although they couldn't tank anything.
Oni easy money for built ready character but hyirus don't cast and as long as you stay away 0 danger perfect for low level
 

gwen

Slightly Crazed
Only there are no lizardmen in Despise anymore... except in Fel maybe... though you can find them in Ilshenar... if you know where to look...
Of course in Fel. You have double resource bonus there. Double amount of leather.
There is a place where 2 will spawn very fast after kill. Just need Butcher war cleaver to skin them. Or skinning knife in hand. Or huntmaster reward knife (more leather but need to throw meat from backpack)
 

MalagAste

Belaern d'Zhaunil
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Campaign Supporter
Of course in Fel. You have double resource bonus there. Double amount of leather.
There is a place where 2 will spawn very fast after kill. Just need Butcher war cleaver to skin them. Or skinning knife in hand. Or huntmaster reward knife (more leather but need to throw meat from backpack)
Or take a beetle with you and keep it well fed.
 
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