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Sergul'zan_SP
Guest
This sounds like a rather complicated procedure to be intended. You essentially destroy a high end item and it gives you a relic fragment??? On what planet does that make sense?
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Nobody noticed the SNEAKY Nerf??
- Thread starter Toptwo
- Start date
- Watchers 3
Actually it isn't. We needed to make use of multiple professions, which is what the Devs are always pushing us to do.
Um....destroying a high end item IS how we get relic fragments. Destroying junk arties, high end looted magic items, high end barbed kit rejects is pretty much the soul way to get relic fragments. Destroying an imbued object seemed to follow suit.
I had a Katana with the following mods:
HCI 15
DCI 13
DI 47
Cold 11
Durability 66
I brought up Cold to 13 and added 90 luck. I enhanced with agapite. My numbers looked like this after the imbue and enhance:
A = 456
B = 60 (agapite)
C = 20
D = 30
So A+B+C+D = 566
I took this and multiplied it by .8 (due to it being imbued) and got 452.8.
452.8 > 451.
It unraveled to a Relic Fragment.
Turns out I might have been too fast on the trigger this time. There is still hope for a door slightly ajar. When the nerf hit I was certain this meant that no imbued items will now give relics, seems I was wrong - although I haven`t had time to test it. If that is the case the dev team was wiser than what I initially thought. I`ll try to wait a few more days before I cry wolf next time 
Sarsmi, the mining nerf example is really a good one as it illustrates my point. Was it really intended for casual players? I highly doubt that.
Let`s say the devs does a tally on how many white pearls there are in the world, find out there are too many and decides to do something about it.
So they nerf the drop rate on white pearls.
However, the amount in the world are made up of what bots get, what powergamers get and the few a casual player get.
Lets say that causal player gets 5 pr month, the powergamer gets 100 and the script gets 1000. (just making these numbers up, except for the casual one..) Where do they place the bar?
See where the problem lies? By nerfing from the top, the casual player gets shafted pretty quickly. With some heavy handed implementation they can pretty much succeed in nerfing it beyond reach for a casual gamer. Now granted, the mining nerf did not move aqquiring valorite beyond reach for a casual player. But where it hurt the most was in that group.
Not allowing for imbued items to be unravelled into relics would have been an even more heavy handed nerf.
There should be multiple ways to aqquire ingredients for imbuing. Currently there is for mostly all resources in varying degree. Some you still need to hunt to farm or buy, others you can either craft, hunt for or buy. Their aqquiring is varied and I really enjoy that.
Note that I don`t want things easy, but I do want them within reach. In this thread I have seen multiple socalled "easy" ways to get relics, including taking your tamer to do a level 6 t-map. For some that is deemed "easy". I guess we all judge by our own playstyle and our character`s possibilities
If I understand the current findings correct, we still have the option to imbue then enhance monster-loot, which makes it at least possible.
Sarsmi wrote:
There are multiple ways to play this game. The supposed nerf hit me harder than anything else have ever done playstyle-wise. For me it`s comparable to the recent bug that hit you hard, the multiple deeded items. That was a bug, this one turned out to be not so bad as initially thought. I need to test it out to be sure. Otherwise, I`ll be back, crying wolf...
Sarsmi, the mining nerf example is really a good one as it illustrates my point. Was it really intended for casual players? I highly doubt that.
Let`s say the devs does a tally on how many white pearls there are in the world, find out there are too many and decides to do something about it.
So they nerf the drop rate on white pearls.
However, the amount in the world are made up of what bots get, what powergamers get and the few a casual player get.
Lets say that causal player gets 5 pr month, the powergamer gets 100 and the script gets 1000. (just making these numbers up, except for the casual one..) Where do they place the bar?
See where the problem lies? By nerfing from the top, the casual player gets shafted pretty quickly. With some heavy handed implementation they can pretty much succeed in nerfing it beyond reach for a casual gamer. Now granted, the mining nerf did not move aqquiring valorite beyond reach for a casual player. But where it hurt the most was in that group.
Not allowing for imbued items to be unravelled into relics would have been an even more heavy handed nerf.
There should be multiple ways to aqquire ingredients for imbuing. Currently there is for mostly all resources in varying degree. Some you still need to hunt to farm or buy, others you can either craft, hunt for or buy. Their aqquiring is varied and I really enjoy that.
Note that I don`t want things easy, but I do want them within reach. In this thread I have seen multiple socalled "easy" ways to get relics, including taking your tamer to do a level 6 t-map. For some that is deemed "easy". I guess we all judge by our own playstyle and our character`s possibilities
If I understand the current findings correct, we still have the option to imbue then enhance monster-loot, which makes it at least possible.
Sarsmi wrote:
Depending on their want, all or none. I am a casual powergamer - spent most of my playing time since the first word of imbuing came and started to farm items and gold to buy gems. When SA hit I had 2 houses full of items to unravel. The training itself took 2 weeks, the total amount of time used to legendary is.. I dunno, 8 months? When did they mention the words: loot, unravel and gems in the same sentence?
The list is much longer than that, but - I think the above answers your question really. I have a mage and as such need 4 of those mods. And that is even without thinking of maxing them using special ingredients.
Casual does not necessarily mean newbie, although I don`t mind being called that. In many ways I still am. I am not even done with the ML expansion yet.
There are multiple ways to play this game. The supposed nerf hit me harder than anything else have ever done playstyle-wise. For me it`s comparable to the recent bug that hit you hard, the multiple deeded items. That was a bug, this one turned out to be not so bad as initially thought. I need to test it out to be sure. Otherwise, I`ll be back, crying wolf...
Well, to be honest, this change, in my opinion, is for the better. I think it was just a little too easy to get relic frags. There are still ways for crafters to get them, it just isn't as easy. I think I have my own source, but I won't know for sure until I've trained up my imbuing some more.
S
Smokin
Guest
A does not equal 456, at least from my numbers. 15 hit and 13 dci what did you value them at.
Casual players/newbies will always be hit the hardest no matter what. It's still relatively easy to get valorite with a couple hours of steady work. Do you really think that casual players should be on par with hardcore players? Absolutely not. Time is the greatest of resources, and those who spend it should reap the rewards for doing so.Turns out I might have been too fast on the trigger this time. There is still hope for a door slightly ajar. When the nerf hit I was certain this meant that no imbued items will now give relics, seems I was wrong - although I haven`t had time to test it. If that is the case the dev team was wiser than what I initially thought. I`ll try to wait a few more days before I cry wolf next time
Sarsmi, the mining nerf example is really a good one as it illustrates my point. Was it really intended for casual players? I highly doubt that.
Let`s say the devs does a tally on how many white pearls there are in the world, find out there are too many and decides to do something about it.
So they nerf the drop rate on white pearls.
However, the amount in the world are made up of what bots get, what powergamers get and the few a casual player get.
Lets say that causal player gets 5 pr month, the powergamer gets 100 and the script gets 1000. (just making these numbers up, except for the casual one..) Where do they place the bar?
See where the problem lies? By nerfing from the top, the casual player gets shafted pretty quickly. With some heavy handed implementation they can pretty much succeed in nerfing it beyond reach for a casual gamer. Now granted, the mining nerf did not move aqquiring valorite beyond reach for a casual player. But where it hurt the most was in that group.
Not allowing for imbued items to be unravelled into relics would have been an even more heavy handed nerf.
There should be multiple ways to aqquire ingredients for imbuing. Currently there is for mostly all resources in varying degree. Some you still need to hunt to farm or buy, others you can either craft, hunt for or buy. Their aqquiring is varied and I really enjoy that.
Note that I don`t want things easy, but I do want them within reach. In this thread I have seen multiple socalled "easy" ways to get relics, including taking your tamer to do a level 6 t-map. For some that is deemed "easy". I guess we all judge by our own playstyle and our character`s possibilities
If I understand the current findings correct, we still have the option to imbue then enhance monster-loot, which makes it at least possible.
Sarsmi wrote:
Depending on their want, all or none. I am a casual powergamer - spent most of my playing time since the first word of imbuing came and started to farm items and gold to buy gems. When SA hit I had 2 houses full of items to unravel. The training itself took 2 weeks, the total amount of time used to legendary is.. I dunno, 8 months? When did they mention the words: loot, unravel and gems in the same sentence?
The list is much longer than that, but - I think the above answers your question really. I have a mage and as such need 4 of those mods. And that is even without thinking of maxing them using special ingredients.
Casual does not necessarily mean newbie, although I don`t mind being called that. In many ways I still am. I am not even done with the ML expansion yet.
There are multiple ways to play this game. The supposed nerf hit me harder than anything else have ever done playstyle-wise. For me it`s comparable to the recent bug that hit you hard, the multiple deeded items. That was a bug, this one turned out to be not so bad as initially thought. I need to test it out to be sure. Otherwise, I`ll be back, crying wolf...
You think that the easy way of getting relics was good for casual players? Only for a subset of the casual players who reached legendary imbuing. Which is a far smaller subset of casual players than those who dig level 6 t maps, hunt in ilshenar for minor arties, kill swoop or miasma, etc. Easy relics from crafting mean declining prices for minor arties, which are now a viable source of income for pvmer's again.
It's apparent that there are far more casual pvmers than legendary imbuers, so this change benefits the larger group.
BTW except for weapon mods which I didn't include, I went by the stratics list for what items require relics, and if that list is correct then my list is complete. I included every mod that said it needed a relic.
So here it is again:
A list of what properties relics are needed for:
Armor properties:
LMC
Jewelry Properties:
DCI
HCI
FC
FCR
LMC
As I said this doesn't include weapon mods, or the two shield mods (DCI, FC) that needs a relic to imbue. This is the whole list baby! Pretty short, but then again spellcasting skills are very versatile and powerful. Being able to make items that were previously unmatchable even by artifacts should not be something everyone right off the bat.
If this list is wrong you might want to PM petra and get it fixed.
Imbuing Ingredients Table Here.
Thank you chrome, that is very informative!
That 0.8 multiplier does seem to make it impossible to get relics by imbuing alone. You need to throw in enhancing/race/soulforge bonuses into the mix.
If the calculations are correct, that's very clever of the devs to chose 80% actually. A tad too much imho but a very clever choice of percentage.
Maybe they can consider 90% intead.
You mentioned 5 mods and grouped them together, the complete list is longer.
Armor
LMC
Weapon
DCI
HCI
SSI
FC
Balanced
Velocity
Hit lightning
Hit magic arrow
Slayers: Arachnid, Demon, Elemental, Repond, Reptile, Undead, Dragon
Jewelry
DCI
HCI
FC
FCR
Shields
FC
DCI
I wouldn`t call that short by a long shot
I still think the list speaks for itself and answers your question regarding why one would need relics in the first place. If you do any sort of pvm you will also notice that these mods are very much needed mods for any template - if you include that imbuing is placed somewhere between GM armour and runic-made. The goal here is to close the gap, to level the playing field. Not to add another skill to accounts who already have multiple bod-runners who can do the bod game and churn out barbed kits and gold runics. They don`t really "need" the skill, as they can get what they need elsewhere. Of course, they might still add it - but where the skill shines is for those in between. Those who want to upgrade their mix and match of a suit and armoury for something better.Why would one want then to make a shield with no DCI or FC to offset the SC penatly for example? Then the old GM armour made or looted one is still as good. Or not add SSI on a weapon? Or run around with an archer with no HCI and no SSI on their bow? How is that an upgrade?
And a mage upgrade with no FC/FCR and LMC? Hmm?
No, I don`t think so as I have stated previously in my replies. But I am concerned where one places the bar. Something that would be challenging for you - might become impossible for a causal player. A drop rate that would be reasonable for you, might be too rare to even be worthwhile for a causal player. And thus making a skill as imbuing for example completly worthless - in that gap where it was supposed to be placed.
Disclaimer:I still don`t know if that is what has happened with the skill, and they are probably still monitoring it`s use and might tweak it further. Which is why I am so eager to get my point across.
Actually it does:
15 HCI = 100
13 DCI = 86
47 DI = 94
13 Cold = 86
90 Luck = 90
100+86+94+86+90 = 456
Math seems to work to me, I always check my numbers multiple times before making a post. My assumption is you misread where I said I brought cold up to 13 and added 90 luck. Also mind this is percentage of maximum, not property weight. So 15 HCI is 100% of the maximum which is 15. Not that its "weighted" imbued intensity of 130%.
300 is good!
I actually posted the 13-13-13-18-77 method when I figured it out and only used it to create about 50 fragments most of which I have already used!
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Eyes of Origin
Guest
I made 5 or 6 while testing the method out and I was thinking about it and to be honest.. I think the normal/average player probably would've only made them as they needed them. Keeping 40-50 in stock maybe a little more. The only people who would've (and probably did abuse it) abused it are those who are greedy and looking to profit from them or scripters, who will definately profit from them.
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UOKaiser
Guest
Shouldn't have posted it. If people have any brain in there head they would of figure it out hell if they werent so lazy they would of just tried it. If people needed more help than that thats what guilds and ingame players are for. Only reason to post something is to get it nerfed if it's good or ignored if it's bad. In the proccess of posting it you got the method nerf and increased alot of players who took advantage of it gold including me so I thank you but like I said am sorry fo the casual player you messed them up. A moment of silence for ingame poor. Felt so bad just gave 100 relic fragments to someone that was asking for help earlier.
This point is well taken, I have definitely seen the issue with sharing. I always thought that sharing info would make things better, I have definitely been proven wrong. I have no regrets for the players who got to get some frags with it but it is annoying that scripters were able to take advantage of it and ruin it for everyone.
I have a new method to make relic fragments that only requires residue and easy to get, readily available resources. I'll be keeping this method to myself and my friends unfortunately.
S
Spector_Napa
Guest
Ok first off this is a really bad "fix".
Secondly as for Xalan Dementia's comment, Not everyone has 24626426 billion minutes to play a lets be honest outdated and agressively anoying game every day. compound the fact that we have to pay for this outdated and poorly run game monthly. The fact that some people have payed for this game for close to 13-14 years now i think deserves the ability to not have to spend countless hours gathering countless resources just for a mediocre imbued weapon/armor piece. Personally ive played and payed for my account/'s for 12 years now. average out the monthly payments from when the game first started so we shall say 12.50 a month for 12 years ='s 150 bucks. Not mentioning all the "Expansions" and account upgrade codes and transfers. so we'll say ive probally dropped close to 500 bucks and a billion headaches on this game in 12 years. Im less then happy to find out i have to farm crappy little npc monsters for hours upon hours to get what i need, either that or pay the skyrocketing prices in luna.
If anyone ever wants 2 take lessions and learn how to bury a video game into a grave just get a job at EA/Mythic.
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Eyes of Origin
Guest
12.99 x 12 x 12 = 1870.56 which for 12 years isnt all that bad, tbh. and thats if you are just running one account. You can probably add your other $500 in there towards expansions, codes, xfers, etc. So if you are just running one account for the last 12 yrs you've paid maybe $2400, double that if you have 2 accounts.. still not bad for 12 yrs worth of so called crappy game play.
Serafi I said twice that my list did not include weapon mods.You mentioned 5 mods and grouped them together, the complete list is longer.
Armor
LMC
Weapon
DCI
HCI
SSI
FC
Balanced
Velocity
Hit lightning
Hit magic arrow
Slayers: Arachnid, Demon, Elemental, Repond, Reptile, Undead, Dragon
Jewelry
DCI
HCI
FC
FCR
Shields
FC
DCI
I wouldn`t call that short by a long shot
Why would one want then to make a shield with no DCI or FC to offset the SC penatly for example? Then the old GM armour made or looted one is still as good. Or not add SSI on a weapon? Or run around with an archer with no HCI and no SSI on their bow? How is that an upgrade?
And a mage upgrade with no FC/FCR and LMC? Hmm?
No, I don`t think so as I have stated previously in my replies. But I am concerned where one places the bar. Something that would be challenging for you - might become impossible for a causal player. A drop rate that would be reasonable for you, might be too rare to even be worthwhile for a causal player. And thus making a skill as imbuing for example completly worthless - in that gap where it was supposed to be placed.
Disclaimer:I still don`t know if that is what has happened with the skill, and they are probably still monitoring it`s use and might tweak it further. Which is why I am so eager to get my point across.
We were discussing suits which do not include weapons. So yes, the list for imbued items required for making suits with relic pieces is very short.
And yes, people want desirable mods. I do not think everyone should have every desirable mod so easily. Getting a few relic fragments is not hard with some work. Getting 50 of them to make a super ring or bracelet that has every desirable mod on it SHOULD be difficult. Being able to make your own relics means that you can get relic fragments more easily than you can essences, and that to me is unbalanced for the purpose that relics serve. As it is now, people will have to work to get great suits, they will have to work harder to get awesome suits (mix of imbued and runic made items) and they will have to pvm here and there or save up in order to replace their imbued bits.
This sucks, I wish they had made it so you cannot get relics from unraveling imbued items, period.
To add to this, what makes this worse is that a small segment of people will be able to do this, thus expanding the number of relics in the hands of the few and widening the disparity. Which devalues the items that relics are generally supposed to come from (very nice pvm items, minor arties, runic cast offs). Since it's obvious they really don't want this to be a way for people to churn out relics like little automatons this method (and others) will eventually get shut down.
Meh the damage is probably already done, since scripters and others had a few weeks to build up a massive supply. It will be a while before the gap can be closed between those who stockpiled relics and those who didn't.
Actually I think it would be difficult to script my new method because you have to do work to get the base. It is just relatively easy to do that initial work to get the base. I am always amazed at what can be scripted though so I could be wrong.
Everything can be scripted, unfortunately. If you can do it then there is a script out there for it.
BTW I'm not slamming you for coming up with a way to get relics. I think it's ingenious what some people think of and do in this game. I don't blame people who take advantage of (legal) methods of doing something to get ahead.
I totally understand where you are coming from and reading the various points made has opened my eyes to different points of view on the subject.Everything can be scripted, unfortunately. If you can do it then there is a script out there for it.
BTW I'm not slamming you for coming up with a way to get relics. I think it's ingenious what some people think of and do in this game. I don't blame people who take advantage of (legal) methods of doing something to get ahead.
I have always been inherently cheap and have tried to find the cheapest (legal) way to do something. I really should have made a bunch to sell but that isn't my style, I just made what I needed. Obviously that is my shortcoming though.
What is unfortunate is that it was taken advantage of and the big guys profit and the little guys lose out. Sounds a lot like life in general though.
Well, I finally hit 120 tonight on my garg and got my loyalty up to 10k.
I headed to the Queen's forge and determined that it is possibley to craft an item that unravels to a frag. Regular bow, add 1.0 mods to 440 intensity or so and then enhance with Frostwood.
With failures in imbuing and catastrophic enhances - its alot of wasted materials but still reasonable to 'create' relic frags.
More testing tomorrow when I'm not so tired.
I headed to the Queen's forge and determined that it is possibley to craft an item that unravels to a frag. Regular bow, add 1.0 mods to 440 intensity or so and then enhance with Frostwood.
With failures in imbuing and catastrophic enhances - its alot of wasted materials but still reasonable to 'create' relic frags.
More testing tomorrow when I'm not so tired.
You can go as low as 434 intensity provided the durability is over 50. On the other hand i am not sure crafting bows is the best solution. The valorite material bonus is the same as the frostwood one, but you can have your skill up to legendary blacksmith with as result less catastrophic enhances.
O
Old Man of UO
Guest
The difference between GM smith and Legendary smith for most items is 2-3%. Using an ASH also increases the odds for you. Talismans don't seem to offer any bonuses for enhancing, but I put one on anway, just in case! Check out Stratics enhancing calculator.
http://uo.stratics.com/content/tools/enhancearmor.php
Enhancing with wood works the same way, but since you don't have anything like an ASH for carpentry, I'd also lean towards enhancing with color ingots.
You are correct. Weapon enhancing works much more often. I haven't played with metal yet.
However, I have approx 50k in Val ingots and around 500k in Frostwood. So....
I had stocked up on Frostwood on an overseas shard with very little population a few years back. Once I found 5-6 trees - they were rarely scripted so I could pop on and gather. I xfered the wood over to Great Lakes where I could never do this since Frostwood was scripted/camped 24x7. Happy to have that stash now.... Looks like it is finally useful for something.
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Splup
Guest
I still make relics approx 25k each with my crafter, without killing any mobs. You just gotta get more creative now.
and again you get people trying to control the market and not share their info, i hope they nerf whatever thing you found out
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Stupid Miner
Guest
Hm, well if it's any help, I tested Material enhancements on TC before this publish and was getting completely different numbers than what Chrome posted. Was dependent 100% on the actual property bonuses of the material. Made a list somewhere in the crafters forum
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gjohnson5
Guest
Yeah , will have to do more testing myself. At this point I need relics to imbue super slayers and I see no way to get around the use of relics based on tina's spreadsheet. Maybe with a high enough runic hammer one could make weapons and unravel into relics. I will do more testing myself
As some have pointed out what the intentions are and what they have actually implemented may be completely separate. Personally , the intentions are based on EA/Mythic's view or "state of the game" address for lack of a better term. Many things simply look either broken or out of place probably because they are anti scripting "work arounds" . I would call them "hacks" as many IT guys will say. I just wish some solutions such as this problem would come around soon.
I will do more testing but I see no way of using, rather "recycling" massive amount of frags to get the super slayers I'd like to have.
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Smokin
Guest
You do know that the regular slayers are stronger now. Supers are the same as they were but normal ones are better.
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gjohnson5
Guest
Who wants to carry every weapon in UO's creation around with them?
Not to mention in many cases there is no such thing... ie a balron slayer.... There is only a demon slayer...
I think the topic of discussion is on point. If one wishes to carry an ogre slayer instead of a repond slayer, then good. There are some cases where one is around jusst that type of mob. In most cases you're not fighting just one type of mob at one instance. I wouldn't even consider that a work around. That's just an inconvienence....
But you did touch on one thing that is on topic with what I said. The idea that making the specific slayer do more damage then the super slayer is a "work around" Since noone is going to carry a "troll slayer" around with them because it's basically useless, EA tried to make use of such a weapon.
Why not actually FIX the mentioned problem in this thread instead of forcing people to use "troll slayers". Players could just hammer one out with a runic hammer and would have no need to imbue such an item
Not to mention in many cases there is no such thing... ie a balron slayer.... There is only a demon slayer...
I think the topic of discussion is on point. If one wishes to carry an ogre slayer instead of a repond slayer, then good. There are some cases where one is around jusst that type of mob. In most cases you're not fighting just one type of mob at one instance. I wouldn't even consider that a work around. That's just an inconvienence....
But you did touch on one thing that is on topic with what I said. The idea that making the specific slayer do more damage then the super slayer is a "work around" Since noone is going to carry a "troll slayer" around with them because it's basically useless, EA tried to make use of such a weapon.
Why not actually FIX the mentioned problem in this thread instead of forcing people to use "troll slayers". Players could just hammer one out with a runic hammer and would have no need to imbue such an item