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Modern Sampire

Ford Taunus

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iam trying to do test the template myself with 809 points, 30 dci, 75 75 70 70 80
however iam going hybrid with 2 metal 3 bone and 1 mediable (not finding any fitting lol)
i hope the only 51lmc with 75 mana will not **** me over..

whats your opinion on 75 mana
I think mana pool cap is not the problem. More like how you gain and use it. 75 is totally enough IMO.

There are few things to consider about mana:
* Always use two handed axe over double axe on bosses, use double axes only on bosses that spawn minions (higher leech and higher dama = more leeched mana)
* Total "jack pot" weapon is two-handed axe with over capped HML and lucky elemental hit with a copper runic hammer. (You can enchant 100% elemental weapon even if you cannot hit 100% HML and 100% elemental with a copper hammer)
like make 100 HML and 60% fire weapon and enchant it with bronze.
* Do not let medium armor +3LMC fool. Almost always heavy armor stamina loss prevent is better (You keep hitting faster = more leeches). I like "quarantee" high stamina over HML bonus.
* Evasion and Confidence seem to be random spam spells... And that is not true. You should really think when and when not use those. Well placed [bcolor=rgb(246, 213, 217)]confidence [/bcolor]is lot better that 2x wrong places confidences. (Spamming those spells randomly cause only mana loss)
 

Ford Taunus

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@dingomate

About champ runs:

Let check some things that you need for successful "anatomy over resist spell"

Your build has:
* 800 (799) skill point build
* Maxed resistances 75,75,75,75,80
* Full heavy suit (all parts heavy)
* Max mana leech elemental axes
* You have mastered Evansion & Confidence
* Damage eater at 18%
* HCI 45 and DCI 20
* SSI 35 without weapon
* HPI 25
* SI 55
* MI 50
* LMC 45
* STR and DEX + 15-20 both

All checked?

And now you have run with modern sampire anatomy build:
Anatomy 120
Bushido 120
Chiv 120
Parry 100
Swords 120
Tactics 120
Necro 99

AND ALSO "COMPARE RUN" WITH

Modern sampire resist build:
Resist spells 120
Bushido 120
Chiv 120
Parry 100
Swords 120
Tactics 120
Necro 99

And after all this: you get better times with "modern sampire resist build"?

Some possible point where you suit / build (can) fail:
* Skill points under 799
* Not max resistances on armours
* Not all heavy set
* Not enough good weapon
* HCI DCI too low
* SSI too low
* HPI too low
* LMC too low
* STR, DEX too low

Points of failing:
* You die
* You are near to die
* If you need runoff from the boss to heal
* You cannot take monsters "non-stop"
* You need run off the monsters on lvl 3 and 4
* You need other healing than leeches

And if you fail:
Run RESIST SPELL 120 over ANATOMY 120


Just to point once again:
"Anatomy over resistance" does NOT work with:
Low skill point builds like 720-750
Too low gear
Bad play style
 
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dingomate

Journeyman
@dingomate

About champ runs:

Let check some things that you need for successful "anatomy over resist spell"

Your build has:
* 800 (799) skill point build - 765 in use
* Maxed resistances 75,75,75,75,80 - 75,75,74, 74, 75
* Full heavy suit (all parts heavy) - yes except 1 part
* Max mana leech elemental axes - yes with 81 hml
* You have mastered Evansion & Confidence - not sure about masters but use them
* Damage eater at 18% - yes and way over kill on that
* HCI 45 and DCI 20 - yes
* SSI 35 without weapon - 25
* HPI 25 - 149 hp total
* SI 55 - 194 stam total
* MI 50 - 80 mana total
* LMC 45 - yes
* STR and DEX + 15-20 both - running 148 str / 150 dex

All checked?

And now you have run with modern sampire anatomy build:
Anatomy 120
Bushido 120
Chiv 120 - running a lot lower but I do see benefit on things without slayers (EoO) as I cannot max damage out on those
Parry 100 - running 120 (100 too low imo)
Swords 120
Tactics 120
Necro 99 - running gm

AND ALSO "COMPARE RUN" WITH

Modern sampire resist build:
Resist spells 120
Bushido 120
Chiv 120
Parry 100
Swords 120
Tactics 120
Necro 99

And after all this: you get better times with "modern sampire resist build"?

Some possible point where you suit / build (can) fail:
* Skill points under 799 - Yes, hard to get +30 on each piece of jewellery with high end mods
* Not max resistances on armours - Will eventually but with 15% success on platemail gets expensive/time consuming
* Not all heavy set - 5 out of 6 is heavy, well... 4/6 since feudal is ringmail
* Not enough good weapon - weapons are optimal I believe
* HCI DCI too low - maxxed out
* SSI too low - if stam goes lower than 180 I am delayed an extra 0.25s, I see that
* HPI too low - nearly max
* LMC too low - 45 lmc
* STR, DEX too low - nearly max / max

Points of failing:
* You die
* You are near to die
* If you need runoff from the boss to heal - only ran off during rikktor, doubt many can toe to toe for entire thing
* You cannot take monsters "non-stop"
* You need run off the monsters on lvl 3 and 4 - never run off during 3rd or 4th
* You need other healing than leeches - in vamp I have no issues with healing, semidar and rikktor I'll curse wep (I don't play girl character sampire) kind of lame if you ask me

And if you fail:
Run RESIST SPELL 120 over ANATOMY 120


Just to point once again:
"Anatomy over resistance" does NOT work with:
Low skill point builds like 720-750 - 765 usable / 770 total
Bad gear - My gear is pretty solid
Bad play style - can always improve playing style, sure
 

chester rockwell

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Wall of text with zero spawn times....which is what I was originally talking about.....and the only thing I have spoken about.

Resist > anat for fel champ spawns. For every War and Peace you type out, you offer zero proof.
 

Finley Grant

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Campaign Supporter
I think mana pool cap is not the problem. More like how you gain and use it. 75 is totally enough IMO.

There are few things to consider about mana:
* Always use two handed axe over double axe on bosses, use double axes only on bosses that spawn minions (higher leech and higher dama = more leeched mana)
* Total "jack pot" weapon is two-handed axe with over capped HML and lucky elemental hit with a copper runic hammer. (You can enchant 100% elemental weapon even if you cannot hit 100% HML and 100% elemental with a copper hammer)
like make 100 HML and 60% fire weapon and enchant it with bronze.
* Do not let medium armor +3LMC fool. Almost always heavy armor stamina loss prevent is better (You keep hitting faster = more leeches). I like "quarantee" high stamina over HML bonus.
* Evasion and Confidence seem to be random spam spells... And that is not true. You should really think when and when not use those. Well placed [bcolor=rgb(246, 213, 217)]confidence [/bcolor]is lot better that 2x wrong places confidences. (Spamming those spells randomly cause only mana loss)
2 handed wont do without more SSI for max swing. you cant run 2 handed with 35 ssi and 151 stam
the reason why i run 2 metal 3 studded is bc my studded pieces are that good lol
 

Ford Taunus

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2 handed wont do without more SSI for max swing. you cant run 2 handed with 35 ssi and 151 stam
the reason why i run 2 metal 3 studded is bc my studded pieces are that good lol
Ahh yes this build "requires" stamina 180+. And you "need" keep stamina 180+ (that why all heavy armour)
With stamina 150+ (under 180) you are "stuck" on double axe. And you miss lot damage and lot leches on bosses. I think you run on problems with high end bosses (I mean real high end bosses no champion spawn bosses).
Try hit stamina 180+.. I prefer even 190+. I have now stamina 195 and it works great.
 

Ford Taunus

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Fart Taurus, my only response was regarding champ spawns. It's faster with resist. this is a fact.
You must be blind o_O.
Look what I have wrote earlier like:
The boss: said:
"Okis. I think our build and suit is so much different that it causes the difference.
I just tested yesterday Barracoon, Neira and Memp with and without RS. Build and suit was totally the same only RS <--> Anatomy swap

RS 120 OR ANATOMY 120
Bushido 120
Chiv 120
Parry 100
Swords 120
Tactics 120
Necro 99

Every time it was with anatomy was faster. I run it on Felluca dungeons to get the best results that can me compared. (Not 100% sure but it seems like it that Boss lvl that causes most difference on times)
At far with anatomy, it was ~10-20% faster. "
.
If %:s are too hard to understand.

Anatomy runs hits something like 16-20 min with barracoon
and
Resist spells runs hits something like 18-22 min with barracoon
 

Finley Grant

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Stratics Veteran
Campaign Supporter
Ahh yes this build "requires" stamina 180+. And you "need" keep stamina 180+ (that why all heavy armour)
With stamina 150+ (under 180) you are "stuck" on double axe. And you miss lot damage and lot leches on bosses. I think you run on problems with high end bosses (I mean real high end bosses no champion spawn bosses).
Try hit stamina 180+.. I prefer even 190+. I have now stamina 195 and it works great.
thats easier than said, reaching 180 plus buffer needs very high end pieces stat wise...
 

Ford Taunus

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Hi. Look my first post. There is my suit. 4 x part is crafted and 2 x artifact. (Artifact Gloves and legs are super for this build, both Doom "upgrades")
 

Lord GOD(GOD)

Certifiable
Stratics Veteran
Anatomy runs hits something like 16-20 min with barracoon
and
Resist spells runs hits something like 18-22 min with barracoon
The length of time any spawn takes compared to a repeat of that same spawn will vary depending on a number of factors such as how quickly you gather spawn to WW, how quick things spawn, how many things are in range of Hit Area, moving to the next monster, lag etc. A two minute difference is basically non-existant. So you would be better running with Resist for defensive reasons (including getting raided).
 

Ford Taunus

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The length of time any spawn takes compared to a repeat of that same spawn will vary depending on a number of factors such as how quickly you gather spawn to WW, how quick things spawn, how many things are in range of Hit Area, moving to the next monster, lag etc. A two minute difference is basically non-existant. So you would be better running with Resist for defensive reasons (including getting raided).
Yeh. I know this is stupid to put things on "minute number".. but they asked it. And I gave "time range". Raids causes total disaster this build... No survivability at all on this build. Good pvp:s smack down this build with or without RS super easily. (Of course you can kill/escape noob reds.. but I don't count them here)

"two minute difference is basically non-existant" yeh seems like it is ~10% on barracoon. But when done many many many runs it becomes ~10-20% depending on spawn an that is fact that is existant. This is totally "speed run" build. There is lot better pvp builds that can do champion spawn AND also survive raids. Barracoon is bad example. I think 19 min run is very easy to hit... but I would keep 15 min run almost impossible. So 4 min difference between "easy" and "almost impossible".
Once again: Even this build is super on "non raid" champion spawns it is not originally made for spawn build. This is made for high end stuff.
This builds gear is way too expensive to put on champion spawn runs only. You get 20x cheaper suits and still get good results.

If you get killed on "non raid" champion spawn with or without RS with this build... you do something terribly wrong. You do not need "resist for defensive reasons" on non raid champion spawns.

I say once again: Why you all talk about Champion Spawns bosses that are like monbat on old days?
 

Finley Grant

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Campaign Supporter
ok
@Ford Taunus
i managed to mod the suit to the following:
75 all resist (need to refine tho)
45 HCI
24 DCI
35 SSI (without Wepp)
100 DI (without Wepp)
150 STR/HP
191 Stamina
80 Mana
20 RPD
9 DE
8 HPR
10 MR
47 LMC
4 Pieces Metal / 1 Studded (... my sleeves are simply too good to find metal replacement below 1p) 6th pice is meadiable which is not a propblem as only 5 pieces count
able to run Vamp Form + Protection

+89 Skills
Anatomy/Resist 110
Bushido 120 (90+30)
Chiv 120 (91+29)
Parry 100 (90+30)
Swords 120
Tactics 120
Necro 99

i assume going with 70 real parry will bring me below the 300 skill points for mana reduction which is not an option, also using Necromancy would as skill on jewels would kill usage of luck suit (if i remember right you drop vamp form when the skill is removed) theoretically i also do use Bush Chiv and Tacs on the jewels which should be ok as i stay over 90

do that sounds usable?
 
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Finley Grant

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Stratics Veteran
Campaign Supporter
@Ford Taunus
what 5 properties you run the weapons with
also with what settings on the runic do you reforge them
how do you manage to get 100hml with 100 cold for the other enemies
 
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Ford Taunus

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@Ford Taunus
what 5 properties you run the weapons with
also with what settings on the runic do you reforge them
how do you manage to get 100hml with 100 cold for the other enemies
I would take different properties on double axe (minions) and two handed axe (bosses)

Two handed axe (if not wear Blackthorn +HLD helmet and DI removed)
HLD
HLA
HML
HSL
HLL
Two handed axe (if wear Blackthorn +HLD helmet and DI removed)
HLA
HML
HSL
HLL
HIT SPELL/? (Choose by elemental of weapon)

Double axe (if not wear or not wear Blackthorn +HLD helmet and DI removed)
HIT SPELL AREA
HIT SPELL
HML
HSL
HLL

PS. For example with Corgul and Exodus you need special armour sets and weapon sets

To get best weapon:
Copper runic
Powerful Re-Forging
Grand Artifice
Inspired Artifice
Vampiric/of the Vampire

And then pray for overcapped HML and lucky elemental hit on weapon (Would take ~50? hammers to get one)
Rememeber: You cannot get 100HML AND 100% elemental with copper hammer, you need enchant missing % of elemental)
Look elementals here: Material Bonuses – Ultima Online (Metal will give first "non physical" element, and then next if 100% is not hit)


Totally good


You asked before:
[QUOTE="Finley Grant, post: 2984156, member: 174617"]
Habe you tested the difference between 75 resists on suit via 55-60dci ?
[/QUOTE]
Actually DCI is not your best friend with this build. Because of Confidence and Evasion (Real keys to win most highest bosses)
[URL="http://www.uoguide.com/Evasion"]Evasion - UOGuide, the Ultima Online Encyclopedia[/URL]
Increases your chance to parry, also grants the ability to parry direct damage attacks from other sources
And
[URL="http://www.uoguide.com/Confidence"]Confidence - UOGuide, the Ultima Online Encyclopedia[/URL]
"A defensive stance that allows [URL='http://www.uoguide.com/Stamina']Stamina[/URL] and [URL='http://www.uoguide.com/Hit_Points']Hit Points[/URL] gain with each successful [URL='http://www.uoguide.com/Parrying']parry[/URL]. nad fact "DCI come before parry test"
Less DCI = more parry o.O and MAX resistances!
 

Finley Grant

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Campaign Supporter
I would take different properties on double axe (minions) and two handed axe (bosses)

Two handed axe (if not wear Blackthorn +HLD helmet and DI removed)
HLD
HLA
HML
HSL
HLL
Two handed axe (if wear Blackthorn +HLD helmet and DI removed)
HLA
HML
HSL
HLL
HIT SPELL/? (Choose by elemental of weapon)

Double axe (if not wear or not wear Blackthorn +HLD helmet and DI removed)
HIT SPELL AREA
HIT SPELL
HML
HSL
HLL

PS. For example with Corgul and Exodus you need special armour sets and weapon sets

To get best weapon:
Copper runic
Powerful Re-Forging
Grand Artifice
Inspired Artifice
Vampiric/of the Vampire

And then pray for overcapped HML and lucky elemental hit on weapon (Would take ~50? hammers to get one)
Rememeber: You cannot get 100HML AND 100% elemental with copper hammer, you need enchant missing % of elemental)
Look elementals here: Material Bonuses – Ultima Online (Metal will give first "non physical" element, and then next if 100% is not hit)


Totally good


You asked before:

Actually DCI is not your best friend with this build. Because of Confidence and Evasion (Real keys to win most highest bosses)
[URL='http://www.uoguide.com/Evasion']Evasion - UOGuide, the Ultima Online Encyclopedia[/URL]
Increases your chance to parry, also grants the ability to parry direct damage attacks from other sources
And
[URL='http://www.uoguide.com/Confidence']Confidence - UOGuide, the Ultima Online Encyclopedia[/URL]
"A defensive stance that allows [URL='http://www.uoguide.com/Stamina']Stamina[/URL] and [URL='http://www.uoguide.com/Hit_Points']Hit Points[/URL] gain with each successful [URL='http://www.uoguide.com/Parrying']parry[/URL]. nad fact "DCI come before parry test"
Less DCI = more parry o.O and MAX resistances!

ok so you think it would be even better to lower DCI below 20 (in my case it would be 18) the put up energy to 80?
that would allow me to either add the 2 dci to fill 20 or 3 more stats

now i just need a skilled crafter where i can order weapons :)
 

Ford Taunus

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You did a 16 minute barracoon, solo, in despise?
Now we start to speak real stuff!

Even if Despise is a small area do not let it fool you. It is actually a bad place for a speed run.
But it is one of the best places to make test runs for the build! Just because there are not places where spawn can hit the unpassable areas, spawn is "almost same" every time. (And you get better results to compare)
This is also the reason why I don't like talk things in "a minute wise" .... but "% wise"

I strongly prefer Lost Land spawns for the best result speed runs, you need also luck that monsters do not spawn impassable area too much.

"Posting times" do not give the big picture... the "real thing". With great luck on spawning, you can hit even better time with "Modern sampire RS build" than "Modern Sampire Anatomy build" with bad luck on spawning. But overall result are things that matter (like ~10-20% result average on many many many runs)
 
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Ford Taunus

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ok so you think it would be even better to lower DCI below 20 (in my case it would be 18) the put up energy to 80?
I would keep DCI 20.

My dream is to find ring + brace total ~150 usable skills.
Then I make "dream build" with anatomy and RS both in :)

... Sadly those jewelry are usually antique and not last long.. but maybe just for test.
 

dingomate

Journeyman
The sampire build actually isn't that bad at pvp survivability. With high EP, decent weapons and 3/6+ casting you can hold your own. Against seasoned pvpers you don't have a chance obviously but survivability is definitely there. That's important when you are carrying out scrolls during a big fight. 120 bush/parry/resist is a very defensive combination.
 

Ford Taunus

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The sampire build actually isn't that bad at pvp survivability. With high EP, decent weapons and 3/6+ casting you can hold your own. Against seasoned pvpers you don't have a chance obviously but survivability is definitely there. That's important when you are carrying out scrolls during a big fight. 120 bush/parry/resist is a very defensive combination.
Yeh EP 50 and 3/6 would give PVP survivability. But I have "little" difficulties to get it fit on suit :) (it is 860 imbuing weight.. and on top suits, every single point should be keen considered.) I can see only FC 1 from town bonus pretty easy to get... but even then you SSI 5 that is really hard to get.
My suit is "tailored" for high end PVM and this kind of change would make it a lot less effective in PVM... but indeed a lot better in PVP.
Not bad build but I would keep it more like "Champion Survive Build" than "super PVM build" what this thread is all about. 3/6 is great also on some "tainted aura" situations.. but it is another story.
 

Tabin

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
I would take different properties on double axe (minions) and two handed axe (bosses)

Two handed axe (if not wear Blackthorn +HLD helmet and DI removed)
HLD
HLA
HML
HSL
HLL
Two handed axe (if wear Blackthorn +HLD helmet and DI removed)
HLA
HML
HSL
HLL
HIT SPELL/? (Choose by elemental of weapon)

Double axe (if not wear or not wear Blackthorn +HLD helmet and DI removed)
HIT SPELL AREA
HIT SPELL
HML
HSL
HLL
Why did you craft a Hit area weapon for spawns with hit spell instead of a slayer?

You'll do more damage by adding a slayer, then you won't even need to overcap HML since you'll be do so much more damage.

I never had to overcap HML on any of my weapons except when there is no slayer weakness.
 

Ford Taunus

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Why did you craft a Hit area weapon for spawns with hit spell instead of a slayer?

You'll do more damage by adding a slayer, then you won't even need to overcap HML since you'll be do so much more damage.

I never had to overcap HML on any of my weapons except when there is no slayer weakness.
Yo.

This: "Why did you craft a Hit area weapon for spawns with hit spell instead of a slayer?"
* Slayer comes from Cameo talisman (Look gear on the first post)

This "won't even need to overcap HML "
* There is 5 properties set on the weapon. And because it is two-handed weapon it have more imbuing weight room. So it has "room for max HML". You can go lower HML, but now we do "best of the best weapon" so why to leave unused point if we have room?
You cannot ever have too much HML when you fight super high-end bosses. Dragon Turtle boss is one of the best example where you easily run out of mana with "not over capped HML"


This suit cost LOT because of Cameo talismans and all.... but for example, in my situation, it has paid back self many times as in form of sold loot :).
 
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Tabin

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
Yo.

This: "Why did you craft a Hit area weapon for spawns with hit spell instead of a slayer?"
* Slayer comes from Cameo talisman (Look gear on the first post)

This "won't even need to overcap HML "
* There is 5 properties set on the weapon. And because it is two-handed weapon it have more imbuing weight room. So it has "room for max HML". You can go lower HML, but now we do "best of the best weapon" so why to leave unused point if we have room?
You cannot ever have too much HML when you fight super high-end bosses. Dragon Turtle boss is one of the best example where you easily run out of mana with "not over capped HML"


This suit cost LOT because of Cameo talismans and all.... but for example, in my situation, it has paid back self many times as in form of sold loot :).
For champ spawns with slayer weakness: So without a lesser slayer mod on your weapon, are you running around with EOO on and spamming consecrate weapon? If you are...PKs must LOVE you! =P
 

Mayhem_wushu

Adventurer
are you running around with EOO on and spamming consecrate weapon? If you are...PKs must LOVE you! =P
I might be kicking a hornet's nest here but if you are farming champs just go to a low pop server, specialize a toon for 1or 2 spawns and rock it all day, you might go a month before seeing anyone on the whole server. If you farm seriously transfer shields are irrelevant because 100mil each way is negligible when transporting 5-10 p... For champ spawns I still rock woodland armor on my farmers, several don't even have m&s glasses. Champs were done with 7x100 templates back in the day with todays gear you should be able to solo legacy champs with a garbage suit and a half finished toon while nodding off in boredom.
 

Ford Taunus

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I might be kicking a hornet's nest here but if you are farming champs just go to a low pop server, specialize a toon for 1or 2 spawns and rock it all day, you might go a month before seeing anyone on the whole server. If you farm seriously transfer shields are irrelevant because 100mil each way is negligible when transporting 5-10 p... For champ spawns I still rock woodland armor on my farmers, several don't even have m&s glasses. Champs were done with 7x100 templates back in the day with todays gear you should be able to solo legacy champs with a garbage suit and a half finished toon while nodding off in boredom.
Amen!
 

Ford Taunus

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For champ spawns with slayer weakness: So without a lesser slayer mod on your weapon, are you running around with EOO on and spamming consecrate weapon? If you are...PKs must LOVE you! =P
Yeh. You are now on the point of this build! PK:s must hate (sarcasm) this build because this does not give challenge at all.. just free Power Scrolls.
As I have said ~20 times before this is pure PVM build for high-end PVM and speed runs. Do not try any kind of PVP with this! Good PVP:s crush you in seconds (with or without RS) (With or without trap box).
So: do not go populated Champion Spawn at populated shards at best playing time with this build!
I cannot suggest any kind of sampire for reasonable pvp champ. (You can totally do champs nowadays without necromancy (Vampire form) and Bushido... So put those skill points on pvp skills if you want PVP build

... to be fair I don't even carry trap boxes nowadays.. too much bother for minimal benefits :)

Lets put this on numbers again:
Here some % numbers (I do not play "best play time"):
* I got raided about 10% of times
* I can escape PVP about 75-80% of times (Depending if I got lock boxes or RS)... And this is because of most PVP reds sucks... but when comes really good red PK:s they will smash me like a bug in little time. So I lose my power scrolls about 2-3% of runs... And I do not even play many champion spawns with this build nowadays! (More like "real" high-end stuff)

But let's try for example "Dragon turtle" solo with "non sampire" or "old school RS skill 720 sampire" and you see the difference! "old school RS skill 720 sampire" can totally do Dragon turtle... but very very ineffective way.
 
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Finley Grant

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Campaign Supporter
@Ford Taunus
- so if iam right you never stack slayers as you most likely are at damage cap anyway?
- have you ever noticed a difference in real skill vs jewel skill (except the obvious mastery n stuff)

reason why i ask is bc in order to maintain vamp form using the luck suit in the end i either need to run with 110 ana which let me lose 5% damage or run with 90 real tactics as i cannot lower parry below 90 real to maintain 300 points for mana reduction.
so its either
120 ana/res
120 swords
90 tac (+30)
90 bush (+30)
91 chiv (+29)
110 parry
99 necro

OR

110 ana/res
120 swords
120 tac
90 bush (+30)
91 chiv (+29)
90 parry (+30)
99 necro

i tend to use the lower option
after swapping to luck suit also the lower seems to make more sense as it maintains (-5% from 110 instead of 120 ana but +25 from having 120 tac) output while defence parry chance is basically cut in half for the last hits

can you give me your opinion here if you would also take option 2?
 

Ford Taunus

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@Ford Taunus
- so if iam right you never stack slayers as you most likely are at damage cap anyway?
- have you ever noticed a difference in real skill vs jewel skill (except the obvious mastery n stuff)

reason why i ask is bc in order to maintain vamp form using the luck suit in the end i either need to run with 110 ana which let me lose 5% damage or run with 90 real tactics as i cannot lower parry below 90 real to maintain 300 points for mana reduction.
so its either
120 ana/res
120 swords
90 tac (+30)
90 bush (+30)
91 chiv (+29)
110 parry
99 necro

OR

110 ana/res
120 swords
120 tac
90 bush (+30)
91 chiv (+29)
90 parry (+30)
99 necro

i tend to use the lower option
after swapping to luck suit also the lower seems to make more sense as it maintains (-5% from 110 instead of 120 ana but +25 from having 120 tac) output while defence parry chance is basically cut in half for the last hits

can you give me your opinion here if you would also take option 2?
Yeh, this build has been made "real skill bonuses" on the mind. Real bushido is 120, Real swordsmanship is 120 and Real Parry is 60+. This leads to 300+ "always" on mana reduction skills. Also max mastery on swordsmanship (Onslaught and warrior gift)
I never run with a luck suit. If you really like try luck suit: I would rather do "tailored" luck 100 ring & brace with skills over "Rouge -jewelry"... you lose ~200 luck .. but it is a good trade for a lot better playability

I would rather forget whole luck suit o_O heh. I hate a suit swapping my self. But if you are familiar with it then use it!
I think suit swapping leads you fast death on high-end mobs like (Travesty, Corgul, Scalis, and Roof)

One thing to consider:
If you want super random loot and make a lot of money do this:

* Make modern sampire build with modern sampire gear.
* Use "10th Anniversary Sculpture" (Up to 1200 luck), use perfection (1000 luck), + luck 1000 from Fellucca + (maybe luck garb +140?) = Luck ~3000-3300 without luck suit!
The place to consider: "Fellucca dragon turtle champ". There u got: Pink scrolls from champ time, 6 x PS, 1 x Egg, and usually 4-6 legendarys generated with luck ~3000-3300.
I have made many plats (10+) with sold high luck generated legendays.... And without luck suit.
I would think playability over luck bonus here? No skill swap needs also.
 

Ford Taunus

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But if I need to choose. maybe I take #2... but you should reconsider luck suit thing...it leads fast on disaster.
 

Finley Grant

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interesting point ill consider that,

i thougt bout it a bit now and i will go with the following:

120 ana/res
120 swords
120 tac
120 bush
90 chiv (+30)
80 parry (+30)
70 necro (+29)

the trade off of a few luck with the luck jewels i will counter with custom jewels, that should do it.
 

Ford Taunus

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interesting point ill consider that,

i thougt bout it a bit now and i will go with the following:

120 ana/res
120 swords
120 tac
120 bush
90 chiv (+30)
80 parry (+30)
70 necro (+29)

the trade off of a few luck with the luck jewels i will counter with custom jewels, that should do it.
Seems like very reasonable! My skill bonuses at jewelrys are also just on Necro, Parry and Chiv (Look Excel on my first post)
 

Ford Taunus

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@Mayhem_wushu
Seems like you have knowledge of the pro player.
But there is also some newbie players that have difficulties to survive champion spawns even with sampire build...unconsciousness is totally Ok.. But if I try to help them.. they start continuous crying and even defaming! (And that is not Ok)
 
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Mayhem_wushu

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@Ford Taunus
I have done cross shard farming for years, it started with traveling to buy and sell, then as soon as SA came out and I could have multiple suits I went from 3 chars to 50 or so in a couple of months.

Most of these toons are still in nonreforged, basic imbued, bloodwood suits, with heartwood hci pieces thrown in here and there. I usually train in champs, once a character can use primary ability whirlwind and ai/ds is possible (is the toon optimized for max output? no. but more than capable of rocking slime and rat men.)

There will always be naysayers but any template will work. I started playing on that spawn with a pvp build and it took years to deviate and even pick up necromancy. my old default was 120 swords/tactics/bushido/parry/anatomy with 70 healing and 50 chiv. I still have that toon and long before she ever saw am imbued piece of gear she had swallowed every 120ps and 25stat.

my current build for champs does usually have resist, but I have anatomy toons and even a lj toon, they are all about the same damage output, all die to a good pvper, all kill bad pvpers, and all but 1 have cheap suits (1 uses cameos and it is not worth it financially for champs).

For high end content I can see where modern samps make a difference, and where stacked slayers might work, etc. but for champions you can screw up and fall asleep at the keys and finish a baracoon (literally done it while standing on the alter with a soulseeker in hand and a whirlwind keyboard macro).

I cant understand how this can be so complex to some people. If you are trying to farm get off of Atlantic, get out of newer spawns and focus on rats, dragons, or deamons. Regardless of my build I can solo them in 20 minutes... the time crunch is between mobs not in how fast you kill them. 2 to 3 seconds between groups of mobs x 100 - 150 runs per level is the time killer not the extra periodic 1.25 sec extra whirlwind, or the 180 vs 185 swing on a champ based on skills (with or without anatomy).

With a multi boxing buddy who has a discordance protector and multiple other sampires it only speeds up the kill rate by a couple of minutes. So even cheating doesn't make it much faster... just easier.

Back on Napa years ago (10 plus years ago) The fastest spawns I ever saw was done by a scripter with archers in wraithform playing follow the leader, maybe 8 or 10 toons all firing lightning arrow with aoe on the bows. he did a ratman solo (multiboxing) in 5 mins and was banned on all those accts, was fun to watch from my stealther though.
 

Ford Taunus

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Yeh. Champs are really really boring & easy nowadays. I cannot understand why people keep them some kind of "special content" nowadays.
There is indeed hard content to solo.. but it is not any of those traditional champs.
 

zieglers

Seasoned Veteran
I use 120chiv+divine fury for my bower&thrower, not sampire. The freeze while casting is bad for sampires.
 

Maximus Neximus

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interesting point ill consider that,

i thougt bout it a bit now and i will go with the following:

120 ana/res
120 swords
120 tac
120 bush
90 chiv (+30)
80 parry (+30)
70 necro (+29)

the trade off of a few luck with the luck jewels i will counter with custom jewels, that should do it.
What do you use chiv for?
 

Ford Taunus

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I use 120chiv+divine fury for my bower&thrower, not sampire. The freeze while casting is bad for sampires.
Divine fury is an instant cast spell. It does not cause freeze or fizzle. (So t is "safe" even for nonprotection mode)

What do you use chiv for?
Chiv is used for several reasons (some need protection spell cast from scroll)
* Divine Fury
* Enemy of one (On "non slayer" situations
* Remove Curse
* Dispell evil
(Other spells are rarely used .. only on special situations)
This build NEVER heals with chivalry.

More about divine fury:
It is super on high-end mobs (When every bonus of the suit is counted)

Pros:
Hit Chance Increase: +15%
Damage Increase: +20% (This is subject to the 100% DI cap from items)
Swing Speed Increase: +15% (Yes free SSI 15! that does not affect leeches)

Cons:
Defense Chance Increase: -10%
~7-10 Manacost every 23 sec.
Need cast every 23 sec.

So this is pure Pros over Cons situation

The biggest problem with DF is that you "forgot" to cast it.
But as I have used it years .. casting comes from "backbone". So even if it feels uncomfortable to hit divine fury every 23 sec first.. you will totally love it when u get familiar with it.

You need "play" more. But one f-key hit on every 23 sec is nothing when you get familiar with this (Normally u hit special moves button about every second!)

In the situation where player make his/hers first sampire divine fury based build might be too hard. So this is somewhat for "advanced players"
 
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zieglers

Seasoned Veteran
Divine fury is an instant cast spell. It does not cause freeze or fizzle. (So t is "safe" even for nonprotection mode)
Interesting to know. Then it will work for sampire. Was divine fury were like this from the beginning or they changed it later?
 

Ford Taunus

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@Ford Taunus
i got the suit ready, now i just need a guy who is willing to make the weapons but my usual imbuer seems to not play anymore
One thing to consider. As Elemental 100% and HML 100% can take easily ~50 copper runic hammers to make one. You can also consider to make 100% elemental with shadow runic hammer and enchant HML on it?
It will be little lower (81% on double axe and 87% on two handed axe). You can get one (even few sometimes) 100% elemental with one shadow hammer hammer.. You loose ~15-20HML. But you get full set of 100% with few millions and LOT easier... and later do 100%HML ones?

Set is then:
Shadow runic:
Powerful Re-Forging
Grand Artifice
Inspired Artifice
Quality

Ah and forgot to say:
As a bonus: Casting divine fury also refresh your stamina!
 

Finley Grant

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One thing to consider. As Elemental 100% and HML 100% can take easily ~50 copper runic hammers to make one. You can also consider to make 100% elemental with shadow runic hammer and enchant HML on it?
It will be little lower (81% on double axe and 87% on two handed axe). You can get one (even few sometimes) 100% elemental with one shadow hammer hammer.. You loose ~15-20HML. But you get full set of 100% with few millions and LOT easier... and later do 100%HML ones?

Set is then:
Shadow runic:
Powerful Re-Forging
Grand Artifice
Inspired Artifice
Quality

Ah and forgot to say:
As a bonus: Casting divine fury also refresh your stamina!
i had that idea too,
the question is how many do i need
from what i remember half of the stuff is low on fire and half on cold. so theoretically id need one each as there is no slayer on anyway

how much you think i should make per color?
 

Ford Taunus

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i had that idea too,
the question is how many do i need
from what i remember half of the stuff is low on fire and half on cold. so theoretically id need one each as there is no slayer on anyway

how much you think i should make per color?
I would take one set of two handed axe and one set of double axes. (properties described earlier)
Lets thing "slayers" and special weapons (like in Corgul situation) later
 

Maximus Neximus

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* Divine Fury
You can build the HCI, SSI, and DI into your suit and not have to worry about casting divine fury or losing the DCI from it.

* Enemy of one (On "non slayer" situations
I do agree that EoO is nice for non slayer situations. However, for spawning and things that do have a slayer, using a single specific slayer or two double super slayers remove the need for casting this.

* Remove Curse
Apples or (to an extent) resist spells skill removes the need for this.

* Dispell evil
As a sampire you live through the damage you do. So you don't want spawn to move away from you. But if you did, you could honor yourself instead and not need this spell.


I'm firmly in the camp that chiv is a waste UNLESS you're fighting something without a slayer. Now if you can't afford a high end suit that caps HCI, SSI, DI, DCI then I get it. But this thread is about maximizing and I think that if you're suit allows you to, chiv should not be on your template.
 

Ford Taunus

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You can build the HCI, SSI, and DI into your suit and not have to worry about casting divine fury or losing the DCI from it.
Yeh, it is totally possible (and I have other character like that also).
But we talk now about DCI 10 loss versus HCI 15, SSI 15 and DI 20 bonuses. Specially SSI 15 is super hard to get on items. Or you need loose slots for items like "tinker legs" that are otherwise than SSI bonus total crap.
But the real question is:
Is it really so hard to press a key every 23 sec and win "free" "HCI 15, SSI 15 and DI 20" ? Because you anyways press keys for special moves almost every second?


I do agree that EoO is nice for non slayer situations. However, for spawning and things that do have a slayer, using a single specific slayer or two double super slayers remove the need for casting this.
Yes, use EoO is super on "non slayer" monsters as I said. On "high-end boss with slayer" situation EoO also frees one imbuing slots from the weapon, so no need to put slayer on the weapon. Weapon has only 5 slots and all slots are needed places like Roof. (Double slayer usually means wasted imbuing slot on this build) (Of course, I have also double slayers for "traditional champion spawns" speed runs... but "traditional champion spawns" are not counted as high-end stuff nowadays where this build is aimed)

Apples or (to an extent) resist spells skill removes the need for this...
I use RS in many fights.. but it is not always needed. In many fights I can take Antomy 120 instead of RS 120. This more damage on boss fights, but more import than damage it means more leeches HML,HLL and HSL.

As a sampire you live through the damage you do. So you don't want spawn to move away from you. But if you did, you could honor yourself instead and not need this spell.
I am not sure what this means but I use it as for remove revenant mostly. (Boss fights where I use two-handed axe or AI weapon without whirlwind)

I'm firmly in the camp that chiv is a waste UNLESS you're fighting something without a slayer. Now if you can't afford a high end suit that caps HCI, SSI, DI, DCI then I get it. But this thread is about maximizing and I think that if you're suit allows you to, chiv should not be on your template.
I can easily cap HCI, SSI, DI, DCI, but when you need "high as possible" HPI, SI, MANA INC, LMC, RESISTANCES, INT, STR, DEX and MR also extra HCI 15, SSI 15 and DI 20 comes super handy?
To be clear:
This build is not aimed for "traditional champion spawns". But stuff like Traestry, Roof, Dragon Turtle, Doom, Corgul, Scalis etc. (It needs some skill swaps on "tainted aura" situation) but anyways.
I think only high HCI, SSI, DI, DCI is not enough on for example Roof solo... But maybe there is also better players that can do high-end solos it with "basic" suit. But I am not one of those.

I indeed have almost 2 identical characters:
other have "build in HCI, SSI, DI" and other is this "Divine fury HCI, SSI, DI" and I do a lot better on hardest bosses with this "Divine fury one".. just because of free "HCI, SSI, DI" bonuses.

Btw. "build in HCI, SSI, DI lumberjacker without chiv" is super on Doom.. but it is totally other story :)

@Maximus Neximus
I strongly suggest to try this on next Roof solo run and I bet you get better results!
 
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Maximus Neximus

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I use RS in many fights.. but it is not always needed. In many fights I can take Antomy 120 instead of RS 120. This more damage on boss fights, but more import than damage it means more leeches HML,HLL and HSL.
By not having chiv, I can always have both. Having hit spell or HLA on a weapon isn't worth 90-120 skill points to me.

There's many ways it can be done. I just want to point out that chiv isn't required (unless there's no slayer).
 

Finley Grant

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nice civil discussion, keep that folks

the reason why i like his build is that i have used chiv on many toons since years, however i never played with much extra skill points. iam trying this out bc iam bored as last straw to not quit fully.
iam honest, i have run champs (all of them) with chiv and without, with anatomy and without swapped for resist. the regular champs are not why i build that however i most likely will do more of those then something else because the tradeoff in scrolls.

but i want to try something different and learning and trying new things are good.
 
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