Lord Nabin
High Council Sage - Greater Sosaria
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Glorious Lord
That actually made me laugh and I mean laugh hard. Thanks for that.
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Yeah, that so called pvper is really cute like a baby. I thought pvp games are designed for adults.
Get ur 5k trash can points for most of them & save the 200 charge ones for sentimental reasons and display like the rest of us
Again, the inviso items & ring r working as intended with NO need to change. Nothing to see here *poof*
Now move along....
True though.
All I'm seeing from tamers on here, is a blinkered view of the game, thinking they are always correct, thinking they are the ones who behave like adults, yet if something doesn't conform to their snobbish elitist way of thinking, they don't attempt to use any logic to debate it, they just go defensive mode and tear it down just because a pvper was involved in the conversation.
Trying to engage with the tamers here, is like trying to engage with Queen Victoria I imagine.
Come and PvP against me then.
On her Rainbow Unicorn.
As easy as it may be to discredit Pawain for being an unsavoury character out for self gain, I do not beleive we need to lower ourselves to his level and should concentrate on arguing the topic, (although he's not yet contributed any argument in this thread)
My computer can't handle recording my play, so I found support from another video. I don't know if I'm allowed to post youtube vids but here ya go:
Skip straight to :59 seconds in. Dude gets dismounted and fails his smokebomb, then spams invis jewels while dismounted, disarmed, and dp'd with 3+ people on him and no crosshealers. I'd love for someone to explain how blowing 13 invis charges and 3 teleports to survive that makes any sense at all. He lives disarmed, lp'd, conflag'd, and whatever else. Does not heal nor get crossheals. The item that requires 100 skill points to use failed, but these items worked 100% of the time with no timer.
Skip straight to :59 seconds in. Dude gets dismounted and fails his smokebomb, then spams invis jewels while dismounted, disarmed, and dp'd with 3+ people on him and no crosshealers. I'd love for someone to explain how blowing 13 invis charges and 3 teleports to survive that makes any sense at all. He lives disarmed, lp'd, conflag'd, and whatever else. Does not heal nor get crossheals. The item that requires 100 skill points to use failed, but these items worked 100% of the time with no timer.
man am I glad we don't seem to have enough of those invis and teleport items left on Siege Perilous to make them a thing in PvP.
Funny thing too since I remember them from way back, but aparently people haven't hoarded them as much or turned them in for clean up points or they simply were used up over the years. Or maybe, just maybe the ones on prodo have been duped after all and the dupe (like it appeared with so many others) just didn't work on Siege.
There obviously is a balancing issue here and at the very minimum making the same rules apply to these items as to invis spell, potions, hiding skill, smokebombs or teleport spell and shadow jump just makes sense in order to restore balance (i.e. casting time, interuptability, cool down after use).
Funny thing too since I remember them from way back, but aparently people haven't hoarded them as much or turned them in for clean up points or they simply were used up over the years. Or maybe, just maybe the ones on prodo have been duped after all and the dupe (like it appeared with so many others) just didn't work on Siege.
There obviously is a balancing issue here and at the very minimum making the same rules apply to these items as to invis spell, potions, hiding skill, smokebombs or teleport spell and shadow jump just makes sense in order to restore balance (i.e. casting time, interuptability, cool down after use).
"That looks like great positioning to me" quoted from Bane. LOLOL
5 min cooldown on turkey feathers?
I think that video sums up a lot of what we have been trying to describe.
I once looted an invis item off one of Mervyn's guildmates with about 90 charges on it.
I sold it to a rival guild, for 3m, probably cheap, because I'm generous like that.
That puts these things at about 33k per charge.
That player in the video just burnt through about 530k gold in about 30 seconds to survive in that fashion.
My questions still are, how is that possible, and how do they continue to use them at the rate they do, 15 years later?
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Oh, that's very common kid chat in general channel, I usually laugh and turn it off. I will feel more interested if you say come and meet me at the bar, drink against me.Come and PvP against me then. [bcolor=rgb(16, 16, 16)]
And keep in mind, 33k per charge seems cheap. I've been seeing them start at 500k per charge on Atlantic, but seem to average closer to a mil per charge.
I stopped caring before that. Dont worry the devs will change them. I said that in my first reply.
I can't tell what you are proving or disproving in the first video. Did the person using the items even kill anyone? I think they killed a horse. Also seems like they took very little damage when they were not using the stuff. The boat part could be set up with 2 accounts and friends and falsely show almost anything could be overpowered. I got bored and stopped watching at the second boat part.
The second one shows what the items can do. But, no one is attacking them.
Spelled out exactly what was proven in the first video. For awhile I thought you were just misguided considering this and past threads you've had input. Now I understand you to be a griefer.
First video shows the items being used by someone being attacked.
Second video is a demonstration and explanation of the uses.
Piece the two together.
AIright, I watched both videos, the dismounted fight at 59‘ lasted for about 5 minutes. Then the group gave up the fight. Now you are complaining that group can‘t drop you in 5 minutes and the problems are all about these items.
All I can say is these items are working as intended, you find another group to fight.
Let's try a different approach because clearly you guys are struggling to follow the concept.
Answer these for me. If I am revealed 12 times without taking a step, while disarmed, lp'd, conflag'd and bled, should I be able to survive 3 people tanking me while I don't heal?
Should two items that consume no mana, can't fail, and don't have a cool down complete negate the necessity for 300+ skill points? Those being ninjitsu, hiding and stealth.
I don't care about the outcome of whatever fight I posted. I care that if someone abuses these items, they essentially become unkillable. If you can't ever kill someone using an item, then they are always alive to contribute to the fight and potentially kill you. Can you not understand that? KILLING PEOPLE wins a fight, agreed? If you can't kill people, you don't win a fight. Pretty simple.
When your argument concludes with essentially to play another game, i think the discussion is over.
I have not read this whole thread but I did watch the video posted by Learn and read some of the comments. I think any non-biased person who has played this game understands why there needs to be changes made with regards to these items. I won’t waste my time explaining why as I think that has already been done and as I stated anyone who plays this game and watches that video already knows why there needs to be a change. Hopefully this change can take place sooner than later as I think these items benefit a few who are willing to spend the $ while discouraging the broader base of players.
Lord Nabin
High Council Sage - Greater Sosaria
Professional
Supporter
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
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Glorious Lord
Just wondering....are you discouraged driving on the freeway because the person next to you just went by in a Ferrari and your driving a VW? Does it prevent the broader base of drivers from driving on the freeway? Should there be a change that Ferrari's should be allowed?
UO is a sandbox with all kinds of dynamics. Some people enjoy the basics, others decide to evolve and see how they can max out their efforts.
A home deco designer at a master level has spent just as much time mastering their skills in design as a PVP player who has spent countless hours working up a template, Suit, and fighting style.
I have no problem with either enjoying their time to develop a mastery level in either of their game play styles. Anyone can do that. Working together as teams in community to figure out the details is a big part of this sandbox.
Not picking on you friend, just using your post to address the larger situation as a whole.
There is really no limit to what you can do or level you can rise to in your chosen field. It's all about how much time and effort you choose to put into the particular play style.
Except you are potentially picking the wrong analogy.
This isn't about someone having better, and that discouraging people.
Better analogies would be;
The elite set use dodgy accountants to find loopholes in tax laws to earn more than you, but pay less tax - yes this discourages people in the government and tax system.
Investment bankers bring down the banks with rogue trades, yet walk away unscathed while the normal folk bail it all out with their taxes - yes this discourages people in the banking system.
Systems need integrity to survive, we are not talking about simple jealousy, we are talking about abusing grey areas to the max, and leaving others to pick up the tab.
Happy Rage
Lore Keeper
@Lord Nabin whens the last time you stepped foot in fel? Just asking for a friend
I don't know that spending millions and millions to double click an item in your pack that allows you to bypass casting, 300+ skill points, etc can be categorized as "play style."
We aren't all in our own lanes driving down the freeway. We're bumper cars crashing into each other to see who gives first. If I know another bumper car can't be taken out because it can teleport and hide in an instant, I have no fun driving in circles with it.
My issue is people riding horses on another continent suggesting what should and should not be changed. Either these players don't pvp, therefore not affecting them in the slightest unless they're profiting from sales or they use them. In which case, surely someone can validate by answering any of my previous questions.
Another point: I can be on mount, invis ring, then tele ring WHILE mounted and not reveal. However, I can't stealth and mount an ethy, then shadowjump without revealing. Again, 300 skill points can't do what double clicking an item can do.
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Happy Rage
Lore Keeper
Lolol
Ok, my question is not so much how the items are available--because I too hoarded a few--but how, through modern gaming, people are manipulating them, whether through UOA, the EC, or some other method.
My house is a mess so it might take me some time to find the items to test them, so while I try to do that, how are these items supposed to work? You equip them and they have an instant effect, right? Or can you also double click them to activate them? In the video, the mouse does not seem to go back to the paper doll. It looks like there are either equip/disarm macros happening or last object UOA macros.
Either way, seems like a rather tiresome experience, but you also need to consider that once these items are "gone" there are still tricks in the code, like teleport breaking aggro. Meh. UO PvP mechanics have never made the most sense.
Got ya, so like a UOA remove rings/ear rings hotkey and a dress alt hotkey for an invis item? Just trying to think how to do that without latency, because regular dress would go through all the items. Video seemed like instant effect despite UOA having a hitch (also rings/ear rings pauses to do both).
If you don't wear earrings on your suit, u just hit one button for dress amcro, have another button to pull them off
U can have multiple dress macros in uoa, so make one with just earrings. It's pretty easy
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Yeah, and once they added the cast time to Wands, people completely stopped using them at all. They became yet another useless item. They should've just added a global "wand cooldown" for using wands, instead of the cast time. In terms of the old Invis/Teleport items, they should just make them share the Pot cooldown.
Just imagine if a duper got ahold of some old weapons "of Ghoul's Touch", which have Paralyze charges. Cast Enchant Weapon: Lightning, then deliver an AI+Lightning+Paralyze with the same hit.
Wonder what people would say if that old Pacific EM Event Robe with 800 Teleport Charges had survived until the days of duping extravaganza.
They'll lose the bonus stats when the Charges run out. When AoS first launched though, there was a bug where the bonus stats would stay on even after the Charges wore off, so i was running around in a Bless Cloak, Bless Thigh Boots, Bless Body Sash, Bless Earrings, and a Bless Deer Mask, so i had +50 to all Stats when wearing them until they fixed the bug, it was hilarious.
A player is on foot, up against multiple other players, poisoned, DISARMED, revealed ~ 15 times and ONLY survives due to Teleport/invis items. I don't care what programs they were running, the only things they were doing in the video to survive that scenario could be accomplished through completely legal means. Run all the programs you want, without those two items no one could survive that scenario.
If anyone would argue that these should not be changed because they have been in the game for so long I will remind them about the recent change to animal form. Going animal form was deemed overpowered because it could be cast without being interrupted, They added the ability to interrupt it AND then further nerfed it by making it so faster casting didn't effect it. Essentially making animal form only as good as an ethereal mount for ~90 skill point investment. KEEP in mind, that was the way animal form was since it's Introduction in 2004. It was changed RECENTLY for the same exact reason that players want these jewels changed, it was an easy get away once you were dismounted that would allow you to survive those sort of odds.
No one is asking they do away with these items, No one is asking that they nerf them as bad as animal form. Only that they do SOMETHING because they are tired of watching players escape impossible situations where they did everything right to kill that player.
My suggestion is to Give Invisibility items a timer, just like Potions. Make teleport jewels just cast the spell like it was under protection, then make them craftable under a new name to keep the old ones as rare as they used to be, but give every player access without having to hunt them down from a collector.
This is a joke that this is even being argued after that video.
Point is, none of them can refute the points brought up nor the evidence shown. These players don't pvp, don't even play uo, and don't use the items. On the off chance one of these players does have a need for invis and teleport items while they tend to their gardens or flocks of sheep, I'm sure they can make an adjustment to invis pots or whatever changes could be made to the jewels.
We use 3rd rate imbued suits on alternate servers and don't use these items on any shard. You lost 4v10 and called it a gank because I walled 4 of your guys away from you and killed you and two others. Somehow one wall means your other 4 players no longer count.
And those of us who´ve seen pics and vids from some of the Stratics PvPers knows exactly how spot on you are!
Thread has been cleaned up for a second time with a bunch of posts being deleted... as mentioned previously it would be locked if the derailing/trolling/accusations/personal attacks continued and they did. Thread is now locked
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